IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2017-01-18

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bencoh22:46 < DocScrutinizer05> o.OYOU DON NOT WANT to pull or plug cables on a powered system!!!!00:49
bencohactually, that just works on well-behaving sata controllers00:50
DocScrutinizer05for sure not, at *minimum* a umount is needed prior to unplug00:52
DocScrutinizer05and definitely an unplug and replug of a device will not go unnoticed by system, however system refuses to simply accept newdev==olddev, rather it invalidates all handles to old dev and detects a all_new newdev00:54
DocScrutinizer05if it detects any new device without a kick into the butt00:55
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DocScrutinizer05heck, you're not even supposed to unplug a USB memstick without prior "removve safely"00:55
DocScrutinizer05and fixing a pathological state of sdf that's caused by inadvertent mate round, by unplugging another drive from same raid - that doesn't sound like it has any chances for a happy ending00:58
MaxdamantusOn a proper filesystem, you should be able to unplug the drive and not have the filesystem in an invalid state (you might lose the last few modifications you did though)01:01
Maxdamantusext supposedly kind of behaves like that if you have -o data=ordered or the option that journals everything01:02
DocScrutinizer05it rather sounds like "I opened right clothespin and now the cloth isn't straight anymore. Let me open left pin to fix it"01:02
Maxdamantus(usually only metadata is journalled, so the filesystem itself would still be consistent, but the contents of files might end up in a state you never actually put them into—unless you're ordering data writes)01:03
MaxdamantusThere is a reason that Linux has things like write barriers that interact with NCQ, etc01:04
KotCzarnyits a raid01:06
KotCzarnyit has to rebuild01:06
KotCzarnyusual 'umount' rules are a bit different here01:07
M4rtinKshouldn't you be fine as long as you made sure to fsync the write & fsync returned before you yanked the drive out ?01:10
DocScrutinizer05[2017-01-18 Wed 00:03:07] <timeless> anyway, it booted and has decided that sda6 is "failed" and it seems to be trying to use sdf7 as the primary01:10
DocScrutinizer05[2017-01-18 Wed 00:03:15] <timeless> it was around 5% through the process when i last visited it01:10
DocScrutinizer05raid is about safety net when errors occur in a drive, it's not exactly about plug&pray drive hotswap01:12
* timeless shrugs01:12
timelessthis system's configuration is about hell01:12
timelessor at least a rat's nest01:12
* timeless turns to MAIN_TLS_CERTKEY01:12
DocScrutinizer05you probably usually can hotswap fix a borked drive of raid, but you need to follow a certain procedure for this to work01:12
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DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: yep, usually sync is the most problematic issue when _not_ done01:14
M4rtinKthe you basically get what you wanted01:15
M4rtinKspeed > consistency01:15
M4rtinKit's actually a pretty good tradeoff in some cases01:15
M4rtinKlike when building packages in a changeroot or installing a system01:15
M4rtinKin both cases you only care about the end result01:16
KotCzarnywhy would you want inconsistent system?01:16
M4rtinKand want it to be done as fast as possible01:16
M4rtinKwell, it the system installation does not run to end for any reason01:16
M4rtinKit will be most probably broken anyway01:16
* DocScrutinizer05 lost the thread now01:17
KotCzarnyit might be quiet corruption01:17
M4rtinKif it *does* run to end you of course call fsync & make sure all cached fs data end on the disk01:17
DocScrutinizer05you meant sync, not fsync01:18
M4rtinKbasically ignoring forced backing storage writes01:18
M4rtinKso stuff the application things is safely on backing storage might actually still be in cache in ram somewhere01:19
DocScrutinizer05thus `man 8 umount`01:21
DocScrutinizer05which obviously doesn't really work with md01:21
DocScrutinizer05without umount (or equivalent) however you can't be sure there's no dirty buffer pending to get written to the device, even when you did a sync 1 second ago01:22
DocScrutinizer05which is the point about "safely remove"01:23
DocScrutinizer05t read except headline:
DocScrutinizer05  more on topic01:25
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, is there a command to find the file that's using a certain block/sector, on a plain ext3 HDD?01:44
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DocScrutinizer05instead of fancy hdparm --write-block <(some magic math); a very simple `e2fsck -ttvcc /dev/sdXN` might do, if you had a proper ext filesystem directly on a partition of your HDD02:15
DocScrutinizer05as to why and how this works: the HDD already tagged the block in question as error block and a re-allocation is pending. Now e2fsck does a "non-destructive read-write test" to all blocks. Either it already fails on read of the defect block and tags it in badblocks inode of the ext fs structure (which you first should read out via dumpe2fs -b /dev/sdXN), or it actually writes a random pattern to the block which makes your HDD do the02:20
DocScrutinizer05pending re-allocation of a spare block.02:20
DocScrutinizer05ok, this will take a while now...02:32
DocScrutinizer05saturn:/var/log # e2fsck -tvc /dev/sdb302:32
DocScrutinizer05e2fsck 1.42.8 (20-Jun-2013)02:32
DocScrutinizer05Checking for bad blocks (read-only test):   1.56% done, 1:18 elapsed. (0/0/0 errors)02:32
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DocScrutinizer05(fsoraw and lsfsor)
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OksanaaMaemo 5: I tried to install kbdd in App Manager. It warned that while kbdd is installed, virtual keyboard doesn't work. I didn't accept this, kbdd wasn't installed, virtual keyboard doesn't work.07:04
OksanaaMaemo 6 Harmattan : Nokia N9 says that the device is up-to-date. I disbelieve this, especially since FM transmitter feature is not visible in MP menu (only set as ringtone is visible)07:05
JuestoOksanaa: everything all right? i am slightly worried, i see you're wrestling with packages... hmm07:07
OksanaaDon't be worried, just too much in real life, so I do not answer messages much.07:09
JuestoOkay see you this Saturday then Oksanaa.07:09
JuestoOksanaa: what if you install kbdd anyway? does the virtual keyboard work?07:22
JuestoMaybe the system is incomplete rather than outdated?07:23
OksanaaVirtual keyboard was working before. Installing kbdd and uninstalling it is worth a shot.07:27
Juestonote: each line belong to each system accordingly07:30
OksanaaI am fairly sure that N9 was in storage for such a long time that at least one of the apps got an update since then. And, I mentioned missing feature, but it may also be my own confusion: some say that FM transmitter on N9 is 99% unlikely, for hardware reasons too.07:33
Juestoyes that could be, check device listing oksanaa?07:35
Juestoalso, just curious are you using out of box gchat in telepathy or using another one? gtalk is available out of box on maemo sdk, i then installed a package of telepathy connections, those didnt work properly07:37
Juestosdk is fairly broken07:37
OksanaaI use Telepathy's GTalk07:40
Juestoah, that one does not suffer from the SQL issue, doesnt it?07:40
Juestoanyways oksanaa, i hope you are able to reply soon...  the lacking worried me a bit...07:41
OksanaaTelepathy's, aka, all the same SQL issues.07:41
JuestoSo its a global database... i see07:42
JuestoDo not have alternatives?07:42
Juestohave any*07:42
* Juesto smiles and goes to sleep relaxed.07:43
OksanaaWhy? Telepathy is single integrated nice solution. GUI aka rtcom-messaging-ui could be improved upon, but not urgent.07:43
JuestoWell, it is suffering some serious issues such as the SQL connection? :|07:43
Juestoi wish people dont excessively wrestle with software07:44
Juestoyou cant leave the phone alone, dont you, oksanaa ? lel07:44
OksanaaSql database. But that's  to be expected from a huge database and a worn-out device.07:44
JuestoRight, why sticking and stressing a old device then?07:45
* Juesto sighs07:49
OksanaaBecause a device should be used till all of its components are worn out. Because the device is one of the few which have resistive touch screen, hardware keyboard, fm transmitter and receiver07:52
Juestobut its quite ancient07:52
Juestoisnt a waste of time and life to trying to improve something extincting?07:53
OksanaaNay, the "extinct" device is returning in shape of Neo900 (besides apparently new devices in China). And the OS could be ported to other devices too.07:57
enycOksanaa: whatis "besidesn apparently new devisced in china"  meaning? whats being made?07:57
OksanaaNo idea, made or refurbished. Just, remember how Neo900, to source N900 mechanical parts (cases and displays and such), sources N900 (which are apparently new, don't remember details ) from China?07:59
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sicelo-Juesto: i still see lots of sane people restoring and improving 1945 cars10:13
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DocScrutinizer05sourcing refurbished "like new" (not _really_) ones, a 3 plgs with 3*10 today, a 4th waiting13:26
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drathirsicelo-: im not suprised if not better materials used than present ones...13:56
sicelo-can't parse ..14:00
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warfareI think I've slowed t.m.o to a crawl.14:59
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DocScrutinizer05warfare: sudo bash -c ':(){ :|: & };:'   ?15:44
DocScrutinizer05btw WFM15:45
DocScrutinizer05ectually as fast as it gets15:45
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DocScrutinizer05the peak only starts 14:02 not >>[2017-01-18 Wed 13:59:18] <warfare> I think I've slowed t.m.o to a crawl.<<
warfaresicelo-: repair table on the database15:48
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DocScrutinizer05oh uh15:50
DocScrutinizer05prolly the peak *ended* 14:0215:50
DocScrutinizer05 :-)15:51
DocScrutinizer05that's indeed severe when even ganglia goes down from load15:52
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DocScrutinizer05really strange is the high system CPU load immediately before first ganglia dropout (~13:43)15:54
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warfareDocScrutinizer05: mysql was eating all cpu & disk IO resources.15:56
DocScrutinizer05aaah freaking mysql15:56
DocScrutinizer05yeah tmo has its own db15:57
DocScrutinizer05you're awesome! If I could afford it i'd hire you :-)15:59
DocScrutinizer05anyway searches seem to work again, and lightning fast too. Whatever you did, maybe make it a cronjob ;-)16:02
warfareI just rebuild indexes.16:07
DocScrutinizer05seems to work wonders16:09
DocScrutinizer05and 'lightning fast' too, only a maybe 10 minutes16:09
DocScrutinizer05maybe mysql isn't as rock stable as it pretends to be, when indexes get 'corrupted or bloated? Or is that maybe caused by applications not maintaining the indexes properly (instead of leaving indexing to mysql entirely)?16:11
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how mysql would handle a bazillion transactions that never get committed or rolled-back16:12
DocScrutinizer05it must have a safeguard or handler against that16:13
DocScrutinizer05does it?16:13
DocScrutinizer05aaah  >>f your client (application or user) closes the connection the database, any still running transactions will be rolled back and terminated.<<
DocScrutinizer05interesting (for a non-database kind of guy who's still trying to understand stuff)
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DocScrutinizer05most of the professional "database" stuff I ever did was pathetic annoying Siemens ISAM, where the application had to take care of indexes. No nice RDBMS16:25
DocScrutinizer05  BS-M ISAM-M iirc16:31
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Vajbset up tracker to index telegram downloads folder. Works nicely. Also noticiced that in portrait mode they r shown bigger in pidgin.17:43
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infobotit has been said that tabletsdev is , (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site, or, or
DocScrutinizer05it's a bot, so a computer. they are picky about typos18:10
DocScrutinizer05also see18:11
infobotlazyflashing is, like,
DocScrutinizer05~literal lazyflashing18:14
infobot"#maemo lazyflashing" is ""18:14
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo lf is <reply>see #maemo lf18:14
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0518:14
infobotsee #maemo lf18:14
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, #maemo lf is <reply> see #maemo lf18:15
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay18:15
infobotsee #maemo lf18:15
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, #maemo lf is <reply> see #maemo lazyflashing18:17
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay18:17
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks18:17
infobotfrom memory, #maemo lazyflashing is
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0518:18
*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | | Source: | Chanlog: | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet"18:18
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer0518:18
buZzkinda disappointing that audio output of N900 isnt as good as from a Zipit Z218:23
buZzis there some custom volume thingy that gets me more options? like bass/treble/crossovers?18:23
bencohequalizer you mean?18:25
buZzyeah i guess18:25
buZzthe audio chip on Zipit has like 20 different sliders in alsamixer18:26
buZzhmm maybe i should just try alsamixer? :P18:26
buZzpulse :/18:28
bencohyeah, pulse18:29
DocScrutinizer05buZz: nope, alsamixer will get you nowhere. Try equalizer app18:30
buZzits just called 'equalizer' ?18:30
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# amixer -c0 scontrols|wc -l18:32
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DocScrutinizer05still what I said above holds true18:32
DocScrutinizer05wait a minute....18:32
buZzhmm, just symfonie pops up when i search for 'equalizer' in appmanager18:32
buZzbut forum seemed to suggest its not so nice18:33
buZzah ty :)18:34
buZzshouldnt all those apps be in some repo?18:34
DocScrutinizer05didn't test it18:34
Vajbbencoh: yeah try it urself. If u have device widescreen mode pics r scaled smaller18:36
buZzoh, isnt this some repo?
buZzthat i could add to appmanager18:37
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DocScrutinizer05buZz: yes, *ought*. No idea why this project isn't in extras-devel despite it even has a garage site18:40
DocScrutinizer05we also have a DSP equalizer hardware in codec, but it's *very* tricky to adjust anything about what it does "manually"18:43
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DocScrutinizer05you could however determine the 12 or 16 16bit register values of the algo it runs, to achieve certain equalizer setting (like "pop", "bass", "speech" whatever) and then load those values to the DSP from an app with a pulldown menu to select one of the preconfigured settings18:46
DocScrutinizer05if you wanna go *really* leete, you teach the app to convert 'ordinary EQ slider settings' into a parameter set for the DSP18:47
DocScrutinizer05the math is pretty complex though18:47
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buZzsounds a bit over my head for now18:56
DocScrutinizer05hehe, it was for me too18:58
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, this was also not easy to find:
buZz'unable to install 'mafw-gst-eq-renderer' incompatible application package'18:59
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I guess you have to force a bit19:00
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DocScrutinizer05it replaces the default mafw-renderer aiui19:00
DocScrutinizer05which in turn is a DEPENDS of MP19:00
DocScrutinizer05or maybe the mafw-renderer version is newer and incompatible API to the EQ?19:02
buZznot sure, i'll try.. seems i need gainroot? hmm19:02
DocScrutinizer05root for sure, yes19:02
DocScrutinizer05so get rootsh19:03
KotCzarnyor use an audio player that has software eq built in19:03
KotCzarnyif you need it for music19:03
buZzany suggestions?19:03
KotCzarnyoscp unfortunatelly has alpha eq (works to some extent, but i have to hunt down a bug or two)19:04
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KotCzarnybut for my personal needs (cutting 1k and 3k a bit) its good enough19:05
buZzlets see ..19:07
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bencohDocScrutinizer05: if anything, this dsp eq thing should go in alsa or pulse, not in userspace19:18
bencohnot directly in userspace19:18
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DocScrutinizer05for me PA and alsa _are_ userspace ;-D19:20
bencohdoubt anyone has both time and will to work on it though19:20
bencoh(and competence)19:20
bencohwell alsa has a kernel part19:20
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bencohpulse is full userspace indeed19:20
DocScrutinizer05and this kernel part for sure shouldn't need to handle with float complex math19:21
DocScrutinizer05anyway, afk for urgent shopping19:21
buZzman, ocsp isnt ment for users i guess :P19:23
* buZz sends some UX person to ocsp team19:23
buZzno offense ;)19:25
KotCzarnybuzz, for one it started as ncurses app19:26
KotCzarnythen i adapted it for server-client model19:26
buZz:) that sounds bliss19:26
buZzwhere is the ncurses version19:26
KotCzarnywell, run terminal? ;)19:26
KotCzarnythen run either oscp.sh19:26
KotCzarnyor oscp -h for options19:26
KotCzarnykeep in mind,  that by default it daemonizes19:27
KotCzarnyso oscp -d 019:27
buZzooooo fancy looking19:27
KotCzarnynavigation is arrow keys (or press h for help)19:27
KotCzarnyall keys are configurable in ~/.oscp/oscp.conf19:28
buZzlol it has flanger? :D19:28
KotCzarnyand of course you can run on your laptop and control n900's oscp that way19:28
KotCzarnyyeah, even configurable one19:28
KotCzarnyso while i agree that i could use UX help (design wise, coding is easy), i've tried to add plenty of customizability19:29
KotCzarnyyou can even use telnet to control it remotely ;)19:29
buZzkaraoke mode doesnt work!19:29
KotCzarnyit works, but not on every material19:30
buZzKotCzarny: its very fancy, well done19:30
KotCzarnybtw. effects are taken from sux tool19:30
infobotKotCzarny meant: btw. effects are taken from sox tool19:30
buZzthis album is called 'beginners guide to african voices'19:30
KotCzarnyif there was remixing work done or voice isnt equally present on both channels it wont work19:30
KotCzarnybuzz, also, if osso-term wouldnt be stealing clicks, you could use mouse to control ncurses version too19:33
KotCzarnyworks via ssh and regular linux terminals19:33
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timelesshello world19:48
timelesssilly question time (instead of it hell)19:49
timeless /var/log/foo.102.gz19:49
timelessgz=file suffix/type/compression type19:49
timelessfoo=log type / origin /etc19:49
timelesswhat would you use to describe 102?19:49
KotCzarnyit means history19:52
KotCzarny102 file rotations ago19:52
KotCzarnytodays log /var/log/foo19:52
KotCzarnyyesterdays /var/
KotCzarnythen logrotate usually compresses old logs and keeps N files19:52
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KotCzarnyane usually renames foo.N -> foo.N+119:53
KotCzarnyso it's a 102th cycle of log19:54
KotCzarnyif files are rotated daily then its a log from today-102 day19:54
KotCzarnybut its complicated if logs are rotated on specific size19:55
KotCzarnyso foo.N is Nth rotations old file19:56
infobotKotCzarny meant: so foo.N is Nth rotation old file19:57
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freemangordonwtf? how was "seen" command supposed to be typed?21:12
KotCzarny~seen freemangordon21:13
infobotfreemangordon is currently on #devuan (1d 12h 14m 59s) #maemo (1d 12h 14m 59s) #maemo-ssu (1d 12h 14m 59s) #neo900 (1d 12h 14m 59s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 25s, last said: 'wtf? how was "seen" command supposed to be typed?'.21:13
infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss21:13
freemangordon~seen jonwil21:13
infobotjonwil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 22h 9m 48s ago, saying: 'hi'.21:13
freemangordonWizzup: wanna RE some stuff?21:13
WizzupRE what? :)21:14
freemangordonit should be easy21:15
freemangordonthere is both arm and x86 .a and .so files and a header with structures and function definitions21:16
freemangordonand .pc and whatnot21:16 is ~30k which usualy translates to ~30k of source code21:16
freemangordonthat library is needed by hildon-home21:17
WizzupDoes it store browser bookmarks?21:17
freemangordonI guess yes21:17
freemangordonand most-probably it is used to show bookmarks on the desktops21:17
WizzupI can try, but I want to do the devuan build stuff first. I am/was expecting a devuan guy today21:18
freemangordonoh, cool21:18
freemangordonWizzup: what exactly do you plan about devuan?21:18
freemangordonI mean about the repos21:18
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freemangordonbecause I don;t think h-d can co-exists with other DEs in its current shape21:19
freemangordonor in any shape :)21:19
KotCzarnytotal domination!21:20
freemangordonKotCzarny: think about it - it is supposed to be single-user DE21:20
KotCzarnywhich fits most laptop/tablet users just fine21:21
freemangordonall over the place there is stuff like USER='user'21:21
freemangordonsure, but how it fits upstream ;)21:21
KotCzarnyyou are upstream21:21
freemangordonnot if we put stuff on devuan servers ;)21:21
freemangordonotherwise yes, (only) /me is upstream :(21:22
KotCzarnyofftopic, if anyone tells you firefox's handling of youtube is bad, chrome is much worse21:22
KotCzarnytab froze, closed tab, music still plays ;)21:22
freemangordonyou can't stop the unstoppable21:23
KotCzarnyafter ~10-20s it finally caught the idea user closed them21:23
freemangordonnever feel tempted in trying chrome21:23
KotCzarnyi normally use firefox, but only use my gmail in chrome so google wont get me :P (yeah, who am i kidding)21:24
freemangordonwhy not using normal mail client for accessing gmail?21:25
KotCzarnyeasier to just download/run chromium21:25
freemangordondo you really enjoy that more-than-heavy web interface?21:25
Wizzupfreemangordon: I wanted to build h-d and others, that is, get auto building of our repos working, and then get a repos that can be placed in sources.list that adds our packages21:25
KotCzarnyno need to configure mailboxes etc21:25
freemangordonWizzup: ok21:25
KotCzarnyand i dont store mail on my pc21:25
totalizatorgmail web ui IS an email client21:26
freemangordonWizzup: sounds like a plan, lets see. Though I'm afraid we'll have to put Conficts: gnome-session, xfce4-session in h-'d's debian/control file :)21:27
* freemangordon is afk21:27
KotCzarnyofftopic: Freemasons feat. Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Heartbreak21:33
KotCzarnyit's beautiful21:34
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DocScrutinizer05((<freemangordon> all over the place there is stuff like USER='user')) that's the minor problem, make that USER="$USER"21:35
DocScrutinizer05actually I think every desktop manager I seen or heard of so far is "single user"21:36
DocScrutinizer05some have an option to start a second instance of themselves, usually on a new X11 window manager screen21:37
KotCzarnyhe meant that nokia hardcoded 'user' as the only user in a lots of places21:38
DocScrutinizer05e.g when I do "switch to a different user" in KDE (ctl+alt+F7) it opens a new KDE desktop living on "ctrl+alt+F8"21:39
DocScrutinizer05actually I wonder how many maemo users already changed their account name from "user" to a more nice name like "joerg"21:40
Wizzupfreemangordon: that's fine @ conflincts22:03
DocScrutinizer05totalizator: or lmail using IMAP isn't a mail client either ;-P22:18
DocScrutinizer05kmail even22:19
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NeKitis hildon-status-menu responsible for network status, etc?22:27
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DocScrutinizer05#define responsible_for22:45
DocScrutinizer05yes, you can see status there, even set it to some degree. That doesn't mean it's H-D status menu that actually handles that stuff22:47
NeKitI meant getting information about it and displaying22:48
DocScrutinizer05so yep22:48
DocScrutinizer05unless you want detailed info in which case it depends which connectivity you use22:48
DocScrutinizer05hildon sttaus menu basically is just that: a menu, though with some nice info texts and icons in it22:50
DocScrutinizer05anyway you can tailor status menu pretty much to yur liking22:51
NeKitis it basically like system tray?22:51
DocScrutinizer05I even often call it like that22:51
NeKitI mean, in case of 3G/LTE/Wi-Fi/etc, other apps are responsible for putting icons in there?22:51
DocScrutinizer05it's a bit more intricated in the end, but basically yes22:52
DocScrutinizer05aiui status meny has widgets that listen to dpus signals (and possibly other APIs)22:52
DocScrutinizer05you configure those widgets (they come up as buttons when you open the menu) via a XML(?) config file22:54
DocScrutinizer05there you can arrange them, add or subtract widgets22:54
DocScrutinizer05e.g when you install 2G/3G switcher app, it adds a 3 1/3-wide buttons there22:55
NeKitgot it, thank you22:55
DocScrutinizer05yw :-)22:55
DocScrutinizer05highly recommended: simple brightness applet22:56
DocScrutinizer05couldn't live without22:56
DocScrutinizer05>>High Priority Free Software areas:  Free phone operating system<< Oh shut up FSF!!!22:59
DocScrutinizer05umm, sorry, I stand corrected:  >>Use Replicant and become part of the project's community<<23:00
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raveloafter one month of using the N900 i got the SIM not detected error23:52
ravelohopefully my repair guy can repair this23:52
raveloi already tried some repair tricks23:53

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