IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-01-02

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DocScrutinizer05pali, freemangordon: GET DECENT MAIL PROVIDER!! GMAIL SUCKS!!18:09
freemangordoncute. I have one more mail address, you should know it18:11
DocScrutinizer05tell that pali18:14
DocScrutinizer05anyway find my replies on the MLs18:18
KotCzarnymaybe is abused by someone18:23
KotCzarnyor someone sends mails directly instead of ml18:23
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KotCzarnyalso, pasting ivo's email address onto pastebin service and posting the link on irc which in effect becomes publicly visible for spam bots?19:19
KotCzarnyunless done to discourage him from using that account, heh19:20
KotCzarnyoroh, joerg's email is also in that pastebin19:20
DocScrutinizer05I'm no jackass19:24
bencoh"I am very reluctant in letting device trees specify exports of GPIOs to userspace" he's quite right, btw19:24
bencohdunno about this specific case, but ...19:24
DocScrutinizer05(jackass & URL) about the email addr only19:26
DocScrutinizer05not even looked at the content19:26
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DocScrutinizer05however this licky find shows nicely why it's a pretty poor idea to have too platform specific stuff getting handled in kernel space. You generally cannot cope with all arbitrarily wicked hw dependencies and concepts in kernel in a generalized generic manner19:33
DocScrutinizer05unless you run your own platform specific kernel which is my preferred approach19:34
bencohDocScrutinizer05: he is talking about devicetree19:34
DocScrutinizer05a general purpose kernel is bloatware, inevitably19:34
bencohwhich isn't part of the kernel, strictly speaking19:34
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: I know19:34
DocScrutinizer05only one aspect of kernel space handling of hw19:34
bencohsomething like that19:35
bencohbut still platform-specific by design19:35
KotCzarnywell, linux/unix had a great idea, everything is a file, simplifying all those device specifics into simple open/read/write/close19:35
DocScrutinizer05it takes me 10 minutes to xome up with 5 weird but RL examples for hw that simply can't get handled by any known kernel concepts19:36
bencohKotCzarny: and we eventually ended up with ... ioctl ;)19:36
KotCzarnybencoh, unfortunatelly19:36
DocScrutinizer05except "specific device driver"19:36
DocScrutinizer05a DT is always a *massive* abstraction of what's physically there in real device hw19:37
DocScrutinizer05an abstraction is defined as ignoring minor details to generalize19:37
DocScrutinizer05it may work as long as those ignored minor details are irrelevant or at least negligible19:38
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KotCzarnyor as long interface is sensibly designed and not made for totaly differnt use case20:01
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DocScrutinizer05  *sigh*21:21
buZzNeoN9 tomorrow?21:24
DocScrutinizer05technically Neo900 is more a N9 than a N900 ;-)21:31
DocScrutinizer05at least it hase same CPU and same memory as N921:32
DocScrutinizer05OMAP3630 with 1GB of RAM (512MB NAND)21:33
DocScrutinizer05well, Neo900 has OMAP3730 which is a 3630 without the HS crap21:34
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DocScrutinizer05but Nokia failed so epically with actually using opportunities they had with N9/HARM21:36
DocScrutinizer05it's like suicide21:36
DocScrutinizer05many thanks Elop!21:37
KotCzarnymoney talks21:37
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DocScrutinizer05then OTOH you could argue that Jolla was the legitimate successor and they pretty much failed in picking up either21:39
KotCzarnymoney talks21:41
KotCzarnynot enough marketing/selling power21:41
DocScrutinizer05in my book mostly thanks to ignoring the mess in N9 from above mentioned HS crap and the Aegis annoyance that based on it, and not learning from it so they fell into another pitfall of basically identicall type with their snapdragon21:41
Vajbi had such high hopes from Jolla, but didn't even buy it after i read some user opinions21:41
DocScrutinizer05and also they didn't learn from the ~closed mess in maemo and HARM and instead of improving on that aspect that always been flawed in Nokia, they done even worse21:43
DocScrutinizer05at least that's my perception of the story21:43
KotCzarnyseriously, how many geeks are really opensource conscious? and at the same time having enough buying power to float such open platform?21:44
KotCzarnyregular joe wouldnt chose phone just based on that21:45
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sicelo-i wouldn't mind a Jolla C if it was available this side21:56
NIN101well then came ubuntu touch, but they failed. you have root and everything, which is great, but it was full of bugs when I tried it and barely useful.21:57
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NIN101you don't hear much from them either anymore, I wouldn't be surpirsed if soon we will see an announcment that the project is officially abandoned22:00
DocScrutinizer05didn't they alrady re-focus on IoT and TV sets?22:36
DocScrutinizer05or was that firefox-OS22:36
DocScrutinizer05they all share one common problem: focus on app development only, completely neglecting the need of a proper tailored-to-the-usecase core OS and middleware22:38
DocScrutinizer05the generic linux is *NOT* suited very well for embedded phone usecase22:39
DocScrutinizer05Android had to learn that lesson the hard way, and went pretty far into the outback while trying to cope with the consequences22:40
DocScrutinizer05so far that I for one refuse to consider Android a legit linux anymore22:40
DocScrutinizer05maemo did it right22:40
DocScrutinizer05it seems other similar projects like Ubuntu and FireFox didn't even get the catch of it at all22:41
DocScrutinizer05openWRT comes from routers thus embedded and so they have all the kernel stuff pretty much in shape, but they lack the middleware22:44
DocScrutinizer05all other fools come from desktop and so they don't even see why e.g. systemd might not be the right thing for embedded22:45
DocScrutinizer05and why you need to absolutely forbid polling for all processes from kernel drivers to high level apps22:46
KotCzarnyso, what does nokia do nowadays?22:50
sicelo-ozo ..22:51
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Vajbtyre and rubber boot manufacturing....22:55
sicelo-help please - i want to make an application (pyqt if possible, or pygtk) - i need to open an image, fill the entire window with the image. as the image may be larger than the display size, i should be able to pan it. zooming is not important, although it wouldn't hurt. in addition, i need to draw on top of the image - perhaps just a few points should suffice at first. finally, save the resulting image. is this something either pyqt/pygtyk can do by itse22:56
sicelo-my problem is that i cannot even find information online .. no idea what keywords to use :-/22:56
KotCzarnyi think that's nokia's extension22:59
KotCzarnypannable windows22:59
KotCzarnyit was only added in gtk3 in generic23:00
KotCzarnycheck for: pygtk tutorial, maybe pygtk image viewer, then pygtk drawing app23:01
sicelo-i would like to think it's doable with 'standard' tools... for exampley, mypaint seems to be a python application, and runs on regular linux23:01
KotCzarnythen combine all those into one app23:01
sicelo-will look further .. i see terms such as 'pixmap' etc :-/23:01
KotCzarnyyou may also check oscp-remote.py23:01
KotCzarnyit draws onto window in winamp-skin-mode23:01
KotCzarnyanyway, nite nite23:02
sicelo-cool. will look23:02
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