IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2016-12-05

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L29Ahoink oink12:07
L29AhWizzup oink12:08
Wizzuplet me guess: you want grsec added in the mix? :P12:08
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L29Ahwell, my friend tried installing grsec on debian and got a lot of problems with maintainers that don't care12:09
WizzupL29Ah: blogpost right?12:09
L29Ahcomparing to gentoo12:09
L29Ahso i don't really expect it12:09
L29AhWizzup: roadmap12:09
WizzupL29Ah: ack12:09
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KotCzarnyinvalid password, please retry17:10
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fishbulbif an external dac works in android 4.0 or later will it work with the latest cssu stable?19:17
fishbulbis support for it likely to be in the kernel19:19
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ymartin59I am building keepassx 2.0.3 with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 and I wonder how it may be published in extras-devel ?22:16
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Paliymartin59: Hi! IIRC Maemo extras is not based on gcc 4.722:18
Palionly gcc 4.222:18
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Palionly thumb-testing is based for gcc 4.722:18
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ymartin59OK but my first target is thumb I am running on device...22:29
ymartin59I would try to "backport" to gcc 4.2 after22:29
Palimaemo extras is not thumb based22:29
Paliyou must compile your application for non-thumb if you target maemo extras22:30
Paliyou can change scratchbox target from FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 to FREMANTLE_ARMEL (which is not thumb)22:30
bencohyou prolly want to upload a source package to extras* anyway, so ...22:34
KotCzarnysubmit to cssu-thumb maintainer?22:35
KotCzarnycssu-thumb is both: thumb AND 4.7.222:35
KotCzarnythough if its not a system package..22:35
Palicssu is not for additional applications22:35
Paliit is only for system maemo packages22:35
KotCzarnyyeah, just realised22:35
Palithose which cannot be put into extras22:36
KotCzarnymaybe we need extras-thumb ?22:36
Paliyes :-)22:36
Palibut I have no idea how hard is to configure such thing on maemo autobuilder...22:36
KotCzarnyme neither, but idea is very nice, also there would be some priority issues22:37
KotCzarnyand dependency problems22:37
ymartin59Well I guess I can work harder to get this recent source code and build chain on ARMEL 4.2 with debhelper 722:38
bencohactually we dont need extras-thumb22:44
bencohwe need another build variant22:44
bencoh(x86, armel, armelthumb)22:45
freemangordonbencoh: no, it is still armel22:47
freemangordonwe can workaround a bit by depending on kernel-feature-errata-whateveritwas, but then you will pull a whole new kernel if you install from humb repo22:48
freemangordonmerlin1991: do you remember how often is stage synced to live?22:49
bencohI know this is still armel stricly speaking, but ... how would you define it?22:49
bencohit should be orthogonal to extras/testing/devel22:50
freemangordonoops, -ECHAN22:50
freemangordonbencoh: dunno22:50
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DocScrutinizer05I'd consider thumb another arch, like x86 also is another arch than armel22:55
KotCzarnyextrasT, extrasT-devel ?22:55
DocScrutinizer05strictly speaking it's another processor22:55
KotCzarnyif fmg and pali pull the mainline trick off, we will have real new arch, armhf22:56
KotCzarnywhich could be merged with thumb22:56
Palihehe, but not possible22:56
Palitoo many maemo blobs22:56
Paliand armel != armhf, not compatible22:56
KotCzarnyi know, that's why its another arch22:56
KotCzarnyand question is if we can ignore those blobs and still have wanted functionality22:57
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Palino, cannot22:57
freemangordonnot on n900 at least22:57
Paliit is not another arch22:57
Paliit is still armel architecture22:58
Palijust with optional thumb2 isa22:58
Paliyou can still run non-thumb2 binaries22:58
KotCzarnybut not backward compatible22:58
Paliand you can mix thumb2 and non-thumb2 libraries22:58
KotCzarnyso kind pentium vs pentium-mmx22:58
freemangordonKotCzarny: it is22:58
DocScrutinizer05well, on 686 you can run 48622:59
Paliit is backward compatible22:59
Paliexactly as DocScrutinizer05 said22:59
freemangordonthe whole problem is that CPU is buggy, not that it is anoter arch22:59
KotCzarnybut you cant run 686 on 48622:59
KotCzarnythat's why i've said 'backward'22:59
Paliyea, it is not forward-compatible23:00
Palibut is backward23:00
KotCzarnyanyway, sleepy time. bb!23:00
DocScrutinizer05I'd consider armel-thumb a pretty good solution23:00
DocScrutinizer05seamless integration into maemo.extras*23:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I think it will be not that easy23:01
freemangordonwe need to teach debhelper about armel-thumb23:01
Paliyou cannot use new architecture name23:01
DocScrutinizer05you need to do that anyway, no?23:01
Palibecause in debian you cannot mix different architectures easily23:02
DocScrutinizer05I don't get it23:02
freemangordonthe only workaround is to put depends in debian/control23:02
Palithumb2 compiled packages must always be "armel"23:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: armel is ABI23:02
DocScrutinizer05well, for this topic it's a key in repo management, nothing else23:03
Palimaybe we could modify debhelper/dpkg/dpkg-buildpackage to automatically put Depends when compiling for thumb?23:03
ymartin59whatabout restrict "thumb" binaries into a specific "lib" and "bin" folders ?23:03
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: well, for this topic it's a attribute in repo management, nothing else23:03
ymartin59like multi-arch debian with "lib-i686" and "lib-amd64" ?23:03
freemangordonPali: yes, this is what I was saying with "Depends:" workaroud23:03
freemangordonymartin59: the point there is that i386 and amd64 define different ABI, not that they are instruction set wise incompatible23:04
ymartin59OK understood23:05
freemangordonthe same stands for armel vs armhf23:05
ymartin59a question: where could I get ARM specifications ?23:05
DocScrutinizer05a differing ABI is no mandatory requirement though23:05
freemangordonymartin59: on ARM site23:06
DocScrutinizer05and actually the ABI differs between arm-w/o-thumb and full arm23:06
freemangordonPali: maybe promote u-oot-tools as well23:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no23:07
Paliok, promote23:07
DocScrutinizer05sure, in thumb libs you may have impair function adresses23:07
freemangordonfunction arguments are still passed through r0-r423:07
freemangordonthis is the ABI23:07
Palithumb2 has same -abi as arm23:08
DocScrutinizer05no, mere ARM doesn't allow odd function addr23:08
freemangordonPali: me to promote it?23:08
DocScrutinizer05and that is as much ABI as registers for parameters23:08
Paliplease do it23:08
freemangordonit doesn't have enough votes :)23:09
freemangordonand seems flasher does not depend on it23:09
DocScrutinizer05irrespective, when a new ABI means you need a new arch doesn't mean the reciprocal "new arch needs new ABI"23:09
DocScrutinizer05you can have two arch with identical ABI23:10
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: anyway, we will have to teach debhelper and whatnot for this new arch23:11
freemangordonwhich is mission impossible23:11
DocScrutinizer05I can't comment on that - never looked into debhelper. But assuming it's FOSS why would it be "mission impossible"?23:13
ymartin59By the way, I just got my keepassx_2.0.2-1~maemo1_armel.deb package built with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 toolchain23:14
DocScrutinizer05on non-thumb any debhelper only needs to ignore the unknown new arch. On thumb targets you can install a patched debhelper (if that thing even needed on tatget)23:14
freemangordonbecause it will need resources we don;t have :), both manpower and experience23:14
DocScrutinizer05aaah, oooh23:14
freemangordonymartin59: congrats23:15
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DocScrutinizer05when we don't have the manpower to implement thumb into maemo-extras repo environment, we're busted anyway23:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which will be not that far from now23:16
DocScrutinizer05and that's maemo related?23:18
DocScrutinizer05particularly thumb related?23:18
ymartin59My N900 dying ? not yet... and still have spares23:18
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freemangordonwhy surprised? for how much longer do you think there will be n900 users? when almost every day one or another service on the device stops working?23:18
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freemangordonymartin59: not HW wise, but SW wise23:19
* DocScrutinizer05 can'T follow that rationale at all23:20
ymartin59Anyway I found a quick fix to build with gcc 4.2...23:20
freemangordonI really think we should focus on moving maemo to other HW platforms and newer distros. n900 will gain from that as well.23:20
ymartin59I agree... I would invest again in my first dream... port dalvik, now ART to standard Linux kernel and GNU stack !23:22
ymartin59It has been tried by Ubuntu... maybe ART would be easier to port.23:22
freemangordonPali: ask merlin1991 for u-boot-tools promotion please, he is the repo maintainer, I don;t want to abuse my admin powers23:22
freemangordonPali: strictly speaking, that package is not ready to be promoted to extras23:23
Palimerlin1991, can you promote that u-boot package to extras? ↑↑↑23:23
ymartin59why on earch ARM specs are not public ?23:25
buZzwhich ARM specs arent public?23:25
freemangordonymartin59: they should be23:25
freemangordoneverything is there23:26
buZzmaybe she's talking about something specific?23:27
ymartin59it asks me for account registration23:27
ymartin59OK many thanks for that direct links...23:28
freemangordonhmm, well, I just clicked on the relevant links on ARM website23:29
freemangordonI don't have those bookmarked23:29
freemangordonymartin59: but, if you have some specific question, better ask than bury in the docs. They are endless23:30
ymartin59probably I should have looked for "cortex-a8" instead of "arm" alone23:30
ymartin59I have always loved endless readings23:30
ymartin59and I have probably too much questions23:30
freemangordonseems you have endless free time then :)23:30
ymartin59I learned other assembly languages (6809, z80, 680x0, pentium and HP Saturn) and really ARM lacks in my culture23:33
freemangordonI started to like it more than x86 ASM :)23:34
ymartin59for sure x86 is just a pile of dusts23:34
ymartin59bye. see you soon23:36
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sicelo23:16 < freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which  will be not that far from now <<-- not too surprised. i been meaning to ask actually for the last few days23:44
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