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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | stop mce is rescued by start mce ;-) | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kill mce will automagically reboot | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if done twice or 3 times | 00:30 |
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| L29Ah | oink oink | 12:07 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup oink | 12:08 |
| Wizzup | hi! | 12:08 |
| L29Ah | oink | 12:08 |
| Wizzup | let me guess: you want grsec added in the mix? :P | 12:08 |
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| L29Ah | well, my friend tried installing grsec on debian and got a lot of problems with maintainers that don't care | 12:09 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: blogpost right? | 12:09 |
| L29Ah | comparing to gentoo | 12:09 |
| L29Ah | so i don't really expect it | 12:09 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup: roadmap | 12:09 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: ack | 12:09 |
| bencoh | :] | 12:14 |
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| valdyn | OBOA123 | 17:10 |
| valdyn | 17:10 | |
| KotCzarny | invalid password, please retry | 17:10 |
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| fishbulb | if an external dac works in android 4.0 or later will it work with the latest cssu stable? | 19:17 |
| fishbulb | is support for it likely to be in the kernel | 19:19 |
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| ymartin59 | Hello | 22:15 |
| ymartin59 | I am building keepassx 2.0.3 with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 and I wonder how it may be published in extras-devel ? | 22:16 |
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| Pali | ymartin59: Hi! IIRC Maemo extras is not based on gcc 4.7 | 22:18 |
| Pali | only gcc 4.2 | 22:18 |
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| Pali | only thumb-testing is based for gcc 4.7 | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation | 22:18 |
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| ymartin59 | OK but my first target is thumb I am running on device... | 22:29 |
| ymartin59 | I would try to "backport" to gcc 4.2 after | 22:29 |
| Pali | maemo extras is not thumb based | 22:29 |
| Pali | you must compile your application for non-thumb if you target maemo extras | 22:30 |
| Pali | you can change scratchbox target from FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 to FREMANTLE_ARMEL (which is not thumb) | 22:30 |
| bencoh | you prolly want to upload a source package to extras* anyway, so ... | 22:34 |
| KotCzarny | submit to cssu-thumb maintainer? | 22:35 |
| KotCzarny | cssu-thumb is both: thumb AND 4.7.2 | 22:35 |
| KotCzarny | though if its not a system package.. | 22:35 |
| Pali | cssu is not for additional applications | 22:35 |
| Pali | it is only for system maemo packages | 22:35 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, just realised | 22:35 |
| Pali | those which cannot be put into extras | 22:36 |
| KotCzarny | maybe we need extras-thumb ? | 22:36 |
| Pali | yes :-) | 22:36 |
| Pali | but I have no idea how hard is to configure such thing on maemo autobuilder... | 22:36 |
| KotCzarny | me neither, but idea is very nice, also there would be some priority issues | 22:37 |
| KotCzarny | and dependency problems | 22:37 |
| ymartin59 | Well I guess I can work harder to get this recent source code and build chain on ARMEL 4.2 with debhelper 7 | 22:38 |
| bencoh | actually we dont need extras-thumb | 22:44 |
| bencoh | we need another build variant | 22:44 |
| bencoh | (x86, armel, armelthumb) | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: no, it is still armel | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | we can workaround a bit by depending on kernel-feature-errata-whateveritwas, but then you will pull a whole new kernel if you install from humb repo | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: do you remember how often is stage synced to live? | 22:49 |
| bencoh | I know this is still armel stricly speaking, but ... how would you define it? | 22:49 |
| bencoh | it should be orthogonal to extras/testing/devel | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | oops, -ECHAN | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: dunno | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd consider thumb another arch, like x86 also is another arch than armel | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | extrasT, extrasT-devel ? | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strictly speaking it's another processor | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | but | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | if fmg and pali pull the mainline trick off, we will have real new arch, armhf | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | which could be merged with thumb | 22:56 |
| Pali | hehe, but not possible | 22:56 |
| Pali | too many maemo blobs | 22:56 |
| Pali | and armel != armhf, not compatible | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | i know, that's why its another arch | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | and question is if we can ignore those blobs and still have wanted functionality | 22:57 |
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| Pali | no, cannot | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | not on n900 at least | 22:57 |
| Pali | it is not another arch | 22:57 |
| Pali | it is still armel architecture | 22:58 |
| Pali | just with optional thumb2 isa | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 22:58 |
| Pali | you can still run non-thumb2 binaries | 22:58 |
| KotCzarny | but not backward compatible | 22:58 |
| Pali | and you can mix thumb2 and non-thumb2 libraries | 22:58 |
| KotCzarny | so kind pentium vs pentium-mmx | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: it is | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | no | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, on 686 you can run 486 | 22:59 |
| Pali | it is backward compatible | 22:59 |
| Pali | exactly as DocScrutinizer05 said | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | the whole problem is that CPU is buggy, not that it is anoter arch | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | but you cant run 686 on 486 | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | that's why i've said 'backward' | 22:59 |
| Pali | yea, it is not forward-compatible | 23:00 |
| Pali | but is backward | 23:00 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, sleepy time. bb! | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd consider armel-thumb a pretty good solution | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seamless integration into maemo.extras* | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think it will be not that easy | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | we need to teach debhelper about armel-thumb | 23:01 |
| Pali | you cannot use new architecture name | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to do that anyway, no? | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | no | 23:02 |
| Pali | because in debian you cannot mix different architectures easily | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get it | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | the only workaround is to put depends in debian/control | 23:02 |
| Pali | thumb2 compiled packages must always be "armel" | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: armel is ABI | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for this topic it's a key in repo management, nothing else | 23:03 |
| Pali | maybe we could modify debhelper/dpkg/dpkg-buildpackage to automatically put Depends when compiling for thumb? | 23:03 |
| ymartin59 | whatabout restrict "thumb" binaries into a specific "lib" and "bin" folders ? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/key/attribute/ | 23:03 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: well, for this topic it's a attribute in repo management, nothing else | 23:03 |
| ymartin59 | like multi-arch debian with "lib-i686" and "lib-amd64" ? | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | Pali: yes, this is what I was saying with "Depends:" workaroud | 23:03 |
| Pali | ok | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: the point there is that i386 and amd64 define different ABI, not that they are instruction set wise incompatible | 23:04 |
| ymartin59 | OK understood | 23:05 |
| freemangordon | the same stands for armel vs armhf | 23:05 |
| ymartin59 | a question: where could I get ARM specifications ? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a differing ABI is no mandatory requirement though | 23:05 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: on ARM site | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actually the ABI differs between arm-w/o-thumb and full arm | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | Pali: maybe promote u-oot-tools as well | 23:07 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no | 23:07 |
| Pali | ok, promote | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, in thumb libs you may have impair function adresses | 23:07 |
| freemangordon | function arguments are still passed through r0-r4 | 23:07 |
| freemangordon | this is the ABI | 23:07 |
| Pali | thumb2 has same -abi as arm | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, mere ARM doesn't allow odd function addr | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | Pali: me to promote it? | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that is as much ABI as registers for parameters | 23:08 |
| Pali | please do it | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | it doesn't have enough votes :) | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | and seems flasher does not depend on it | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | irrespective, when a new ABI means you need a new arch doesn't mean the reciprocal "new arch needs new ABI" | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can have two arch with identical ABI | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: anyway, we will have to teach debhelper and whatnot for this new arch | 23:11 |
| freemangordon | which is mission impossible | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't comment on that - never looked into debhelper. But assuming it's FOSS why would it be "mission impossible"? | 23:13 |
| ymartin59 | By the way, I just got my keepassx_2.0.2-1~maemo1_armel.deb package built with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 toolchain | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on non-thumb any debhelper only needs to ignore the unknown new arch. On thumb targets you can install a patched debhelper (if that thing even needed on tatget) | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | because it will need resources we don;t have :), both manpower and experience | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, oooh | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: congrats | 23:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when we don't have the manpower to implement thumb into maemo-extras repo environment, we're busted anyway | 23:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which will be not that far from now | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's maemo related? | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly thumb related? | 23:18 |
| ymartin59 | My N900 dying ? not yet... and still have spares | 23:18 |
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| freemangordon | why surprised? for how much longer do you think there will be n900 users? when almost every day one or another service on the device stops working? | 23:18 |
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| freemangordon | ymartin59: not HW wise, but SW wise | 23:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 can'T follow that rationale at all | 23:20 | |
| ymartin59 | Anyway I found a quick fix to build with gcc 4.2... | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | I really think we should focus on moving maemo to other HW platforms and newer distros. n900 will gain from that as well. | 23:20 |
| ymartin59 | I agree... I would invest again in my first dream... port dalvik, now ART to standard Linux kernel and GNU stack ! | 23:22 |
| ymartin59 | It has been tried by Ubuntu... maybe ART would be easier to port. | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ask merlin1991 for u-boot-tools promotion please, he is the repo maintainer, I don;t want to abuse my admin powers | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | Pali: strictly speaking, that package is not ready to be promoted to extras | 23:23 |
| Pali | merlin1991, can you promote that u-boot package to extras? ↑↑↑ | 23:23 |
| ymartin59 | why on earch ARM specs are not public ? | 23:25 |
| buZz | which ARM specs arent public? | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: they should be | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: https://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a8.php | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | https://developer.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a8 | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | everything is there | 23:26 |
| buZz | maybe she's talking about something specific? | 23:27 |
| ymartin59 | it asks me for account registration | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | where? | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0344/k/1-introduction | 23:27 |
| ymartin59 | OK many thanks for that direct links... | 23:28 |
| freemangordon | hmm, well, I just clicked on the relevant links on ARM website | 23:29 |
| freemangordon | I don't have those bookmarked | 23:29 |
| freemangordon | ymartin59: but, if you have some specific question, better ask than bury in the docs. They are endless | 23:30 |
| ymartin59 | probably I should have looked for "cortex-a8" instead of "arm" alone | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 23:30 |
| ymartin59 | I have always loved endless readings | 23:30 |
| ymartin59 | and I have probably too much questions | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | seems you have endless free time then :) | 23:30 |
| ymartin59 | I learned other assembly languages (6809, z80, 680x0, pentium and HP Saturn) and really ARM lacks in my culture | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | I started to like it more than x86 ASM :) | 23:34 |
| ymartin59 | for sure x86 is just a pile of dusts | 23:34 |
| ymartin59 | bye. see you soon | 23:36 |
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| sicelo | 23:16 < freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which will be not that far from now <<-- not too surprised. i been meaning to ask actually for the last few days | 23:44 |
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