IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2016-11-06

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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: To mention my communication with you when I am speaking instead of writing?03:25
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bencoherr. hey :)10:09
jonwilNo closer to getting gtfs2db working :(10:15
jonwilit compiles but produces no output10:19
KotCzarnydebug every stage of the lib10:19
KotCzarnyand find where it breaks10:19
jonwilthat isn't helping, I cant seem to get gdb to run it for some reason (and yes I built the binary with -g)10:33
KotCzarnyim talking about printf() type debugging10:34
jonwilI dont know enough about what the code is doing to understand where to go with that  :(10:38
KotCzarnystart with grabber/parser10:39
KotCzarnyto see if it gets the data10:39
KotCzarnymight be that some syntax error make it fail10:39
KotCzarnymaybe it gets 404 from the server even?10:39
KotCzarnyor some redirect page10:39
jonwilits not doing any file downloads10:46
jonwilits supposed to take a zip file with gtfs data in it and convert it to a sqlite db10:46
jonwilbut it isn't doing that, it creates the db just fine10:46
jonwilbut it doesn't put any records in it10:46
jonwilit just says "0 agencies added" ,"0 service schedules added" ,"0 service exceptions added", "0 routes added", "0 stops added", "0 trips added" and "0 stop times added"10:47
KotCzarnythen as i said, check if it loads files fine, and what parser gets/outputs10:57
KotCzarnyalso check if you can enable some internal debug, many packages/libs have such thing10:59
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jonwilthere is no internal debugs and I cant understand what the code is doing enough to be able to add printfs anywhere to debug it11:14
jonwilSo I am stuck :(11:14
KotCzarnydont give up, analyze11:15
KotCzarnystart with main, then just follow functions11:18
KotCzarnynah, its about data parsing11:32
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sicelosilly question - with functional/procedural programming on one side, and object oriented on the other, how do you decide which method is better for a specific project?12:04
KotCzarnyuser skills12:04
KotCzarnyand maybe frameworks used12:04
KotCzarnyreadability important?12:05
jon_yall the objects are now called obyek_### and even forward declared :)12:06
jon_ypersonally, I think its silly to compare which "paradigm" is "better"12:06
KotCzarnyoo tends to be easier to use if done right (documentation important)12:08
sicelojon_y: yes i agree .. my question was more on - how do you decide which one you will use at a specific time12:08
KotCzarnyi mostly do c12:08
jon_yme too12:08
jon_yobject oriented C is possible with some discipline12:09
jon_yI've been bitten by C++ operator overloading, so I'm biased against C++12:09
bencohobject-oriented C <312:10
jon_yJava is alright, but is still missing unsigned integers12:10
jon_yjava doesn't pretend to be C compatible12:10
KotCzarnyjava is heavy on low memory systems :/12:10
jon_yso is C++ if you abuse the template system12:10
bencohjava is always heavy though ;)12:11
jon_yyeah I don't like java gc12:11
jon_yit really needs malloc/free :)12:11
KotCzarnybencoh, if arm ever decided to promote java in cpus and made some easy to use sdks12:12
jon_yrun bytecode directly?12:12
KotCzarnythere is something called jazelle12:12
KotCzarnycat /proc/cpuingo12:12
KotCzarnycat /proc/cpuinfo12:12
jon_yand then suddenly, the next java version is out :)12:13
bencohKotCzarny: there is something indeed12:13
KotCzarnyA Jazelle-aware Java Virtual Machine (JVM) will attempt to run Java bytecodes in hardware, while returning to the software for more complicated, or lesser-used bytecode operations. ARM claims that approximately 95% of bytecode in typical program usage ends up being directly processed in the hardware.12:13
bencohand it's actually in use in part of the industry (think "security")12:13
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KotCzarnyso, 'new java version' could be mitigated to some extent12:14
bencohall those trust/sim cards/modules run "security" java applets12:14
KotCzarnybut there would need to be some open source jvm available to use it12:14
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KotCzarnythey've decided to go capitalist route though, so no banana12:15
jonwilLast I heard ARM went to great lengths to keep Jazelle details secret12:16
jon_yI wonder what the "Communist" route is12:16
KotCzarnydont confuse communist with socialist12:16
jon_yOSS is not communist, it lacks the central planning committee12:16
jon_yall JVM instances are owned by the state, it makes all policies :)12:16
KotCzarnyjon_y, that's socialist12:17
KotCzarnysocialist was the soviet implementation of communism12:17
jon_yso what is "Communism"?12:18
KotCzarnysocioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state12:18
KotCzarnyno state, no classes, so no central comitee12:18
jon_ywho enforces such common ownership?12:19
KotCzarnyin practice people are egoistic, which required central force to keep them in-line12:19
KotCzarnycommunism is an ideal system impossible to implement in pure fashion12:19
jon_yhence socialism I guess12:19
KotCzarnyidea vs reality12:19
bencohseriously? ...12:20
jon_yoh well, lets wait for the next wave :)12:20
KotCzarnyremember, its about common owning of goods12:20
KotCzarnyso, kinda open source12:21
KotCzarnyi can take, use, and result has to be still open source12:21
jon_ywell "Open Source"12:21
jon_yread-only license :)12:21
KotCzarnyi might be thinking about gpl though when i write open source12:21
jon_yGPL is just one of the open source license12:22
jon_ythere is also MS-PL I think12:22
jon_yfrom MS12:22
jon_yand then CDDL which doesn't want to play nice with GPL12:22
KotCzarnything is, idea is for the code to be shared and usable by anyone on equal rights12:22
KotCzarnyso no patents, no private code etc12:23
jon_yyeah that argument, I guess you don't like BSD huh :)12:23
KotCzarnyi have nothing against bsd12:23
jon_yBSD vs GPL fight!12:23
KotCzarnyand im not a communism advocate12:23
KotCzarnyits just about communism vs socialism12:24
KotCzarnyand people confusion12:24
jon_ythere will always be the next wave, don't worry about it :)12:24
KotCzarnyyup. orwell like12:24
KotCzarnywe are at the point when everything is being tracked12:24
KotCzarnyevertyhing being logged12:25
KotCzarnyno more grey area (at least in theory)12:25
jon_yorwell's house has a CCTV placed in front of it :)12:25
KotCzarnygot smartphone? smarttv? ;)12:25
KotCzarnysmartcar(soon) ?12:25
jon_yspeaking of smart cars12:26
KotCzarnydo you think you will own the code that runs on them?12:26
jon_yI had an argument with my colleague at work about it12:26
jon_yhe says self-driving cars should be mandatory12:26
KotCzarnypeople are getting more and more stupid and careless12:26
KotCzarnybut that's only because we are allowing such types to have driving licences etc12:27
bencoh12:26 < KotCzarny> people are getting more and more stupid and careless12:27
bencohis that so?12:27
jon_y"so, should smart cars allow people to do dangerous things like exiting the vehicle while it is moving?"12:27
jon_y"no" he said12:27
bencohyou really think people were less "careless" 50 years ago? :)12:27
KotCzarnybencoh: yup, emojis vs communication12:27
jon_yand then it formed the next GTA plot :)12:27
KotCzarnybencoh, nope12:27
bencoh(or less "stupid" for that matters)12:27
KotCzarnybut they cared more12:27
jon_yimma use "smart self-driving cars" to kidnap people :)12:28
KotCzarnysomehow human life was a bit more valuable12:28
bencohdunno what they cared more about, but sure12:28
jon_yyou can't exit the vehicle while its moving12:28
jon_ysince that would be dangerous12:28
KotCzarnyjon_y: failsafes. failsafes everywhere12:28
KotCzarnyemergency breaks in trains for example?12:28
jon_y"failsafe has been removed due to potential abuse"12:28
KotCzarnyit's solvable12:29
KotCzarnyjust has to have some punishment for abuse12:29
jon_yI dunno, the next iCar might be like an iPhone, it has a "go" button, thats it12:29
KotCzarnyjon_y: so what would happen when someone splats gasoline on your icar and sets it on fire while you are driving? ;)12:30
jon_yor have it attempt to drive into the sea locking the occupants in it :)12:31
KotCzarnydont worry, even if there would be accidents during beta testing (which could take many years)12:31
KotCzarnywe will get there eventually12:31
KotCzarnybut more than likely we will be dead long before ;)12:32
jon_yI wonder how those fancy self driving cars handle poor weather12:35
jon_ylike those rains with 2m visibility12:36
KotCzarnyi would bet on slowing down12:36
jon_yIR works poorly in rains12:36
jon_yI wonder if radar still work12:36
jonwilradar most definatly works in rain and bad weather13:00
jonwilIf it didn't airplanes wouldn't be using it13:00
jonwiland cops wouldn't be using it to catch speeding drivers13:00
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jon_yjonwil: depends on the radar build13:06
jon_yCW radar gets funny in bad weather13:06
jonwilwell if you were building radar for a car you would use the sort that would not fail in weather13:07
KotCzarnywhat about snow?13:07
jon_yheh, car comes with a WW2 style mattress radar13:07
jon_yand comes with appropriate vacuum tube amps to survive EMPs13:08
KotCzarnyyup, thunder weather could be funny13:09
jon_yunforunately, it needs a dedicated operator13:09
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (why yerk, not yerg) a 'g' is ambiguous and prone to get pronounced like in end of "George"13:10
keriothat's j13:11
KotCzarnyget good13:11
DocScrutinizer05English is about as bad as it gets when trying to find (undefined) character sequences with unambiguous pronounciation. alas I don't know any of the usual 'official' phoneme encodings13:15
DocScrutinizer05örg +
DocScrutinizer05so here you are: [jœʁk]13:27
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keriojoe r.k.14:33
DocScrutinizer05I'm not Cho Arr Kay14:39
DocScrutinizer05~literal omap-oc14:39
infobot"omap-oc" is "  read that!, or and this"14:39
DocScrutinizer05~omap-oc is also
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay14:40
DocScrutinizer05~literal omap-oc14:40
infobot"omap-oc" is "  read that!, or and this, or"14:40
DocScrutinizer05note that all those effects have some thresholds defined by physical constants (like the 3.2eV for a carrier needed to tunnel the band gap). so increasing clock may result in _very_ disproportional sudden increase of aging and damage14:49
DocScrutinizer05and the effect on the transistor isn't sudden failure but increasingly running out of specs and thus eventually causing random malfunctions under certain conditions14:52
DocScrutinizer05and again for all those suffering the TL;DR syndrome or ADHS: Hot Carrier Injection is caused by high frequency, _not_ high temperature14:56
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tissmicrob keeps freezing for me15:44
KotCzarnyyou've got a virus15:44
tisseven with just one window open and reading a text page, it suddenly locks up and stops responding to anything15:45
KotCzarnyjust kidding, did you try a reboot?15:45
tissmaemo virus?15:45
tissyeah reboot works but i mean it keeps happening15:45
KotCzarnyany suspicious extension?15:45
tissi think the dafault one?15:46
KotCzarnyanything in dmesg?15:46
tissmaemo geolocation 115, singe sign on for ovi15:46
KotCzarnyuh, you know ovi exists no more?15:47
tissatlas plugin, default plugin, mediaplayer plugin, messagebus plugin, shockwave flash15:47
tissyeah i know15:47
tissits a default plugin i think15:47
tissinstalls with a reflash15:47
KotCzarnyanyway, anything unusual in dmesg?15:47
KotCzarnylow on memory? badblocks?15:47
KotCzarnyanything nonstandard about your installation?15:48
KotCzarnyare those freezes temporary or you have to reboot?15:48
tisspowerkernel, latest cssu ofc15:48
tissnot sure if i see anything odd in dmesg15:50
tissi have to reboot15:50
tisswell not always15:50
tissi can press the power button and force the application to close15:50
tisssometimes it works and maemo resumes, sometimes everything crashes, sometimes everything except desktop stops working15:51
KotCzarnydo you have swap on sd card?15:52
KotCzarnyi would suspect badblocks in swap15:55
KotCzarnybut too little data15:56
KotCzarnymaybe you can do the readonly test ie. cat the partition into /dev/null and see if it completes15:56
KotCzarnybut otoh it would happen in other applications too15:57
jon_yI wonder what happens if you port pciutils to maemo15:59
jon_ylspci probably doesn't show anything15:59
KotCzarnyjon_y: yup.16:00
KotCzarnyjon_y: marvel socs have pci, on those systems it's reasonable16:00
KotCzarny# lspci16:00
KotCzarnypcilib: Cannot open /proc/bus/pci16:00
KotCzarnylspci: Cannot find any working access method.16:00
KotCzarny(on my banana)16:00
jon_yhow does ARM handle the PCI config space etc?16:01
jon_yjust curious16:01
jon_yPCI as a platform device?16:01
jon_ythere is BIOS ond ACPI MCFG on x8616:01
KotCzarnyi dont know such board, so hard to say, kernel source for marvels is available, you might check16:01
infobotKotCzarny meant: i dont own such board, so hard to say, kernel source for marvels is available, you might check16:01
jon_yok, I think I strayed into atmel or such where it is a platform device16:02
jon_ysome other driver loads first, reads the device tree, pass the base addresses to the PCI driver16:02
KotCzarnysee clearfog or espessobin boards16:02
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Paligregoa: hi!19:01
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* gregoa waves at pali19:17
Palilooks you are here :-)19:18
Paligregoa: about rt112231, module needs to be checked if MIME encoding function are used correctly and on correct places19:19
Paligregoa: if you are going to play with that Net-Jifty, look at (updated) documentation of MIME-Header:
Palinow there is documented what (last) version of MIME-Header is doing19:22
gregoaPali: I'm not sure I care enough about net-jifty, to be honest. just thought I could fix a simple bug.19:23
Paliand looks like it is not a simple bug :-)19:23
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siceloKotCzarny: x40 .. the one thing that's unfortunate is the graphics .. resolution a bit on the low side. by the way, what OS you run on yours?20:55
KotCzarnyas for resolution, if you have some diy skills and find proper display/lcd cable, you can have high res ips20:56
siceloyou're sure? the VGA port can't drive higher res, at least as far as i have seen20:57
KotCzarnyyou can set external resolution if you disable display cloning20:58
KotCzarnyeither via xrandr or fn-f720:58
KotCzarnybut xrandr should be all you need20:58
siceloi'll retry20:59
KotCzarnypreferably via ssh20:59
KotCzarnyhmm, cant find any x40 display swaps pages, maybe it was x6021:05
keriowhy not a new macbook pro? :^)21:05
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keriofour 2160p screens plus the internal one21:06
KotCzarnynah, too easy21:06
KotCzarnyalso white.21:06
KotCzarnyi prefer black slim laptops21:06
keriothere's black21:06
KotCzarnyblack macbook? omg21:07
siceloKotCzarny: yay .. so maybe i had cable problems before. i'm getting higher res now21:07
keriospace gray21:07
kerioas opposed to silver21:07
KotCzarnysicelo: if you have display clone enabled max you can get is lcd's res21:07
kerionot like the old black polycarbonate macbook :(21:07
KotCzarnynaaah. too shiny. black.21:07
siceloi had unchecked that  ... i think the laptop couldn't detect the screen info. right now it even finds the name of the monitor21:08
kerioKotCzarny: i really wish the new macbook had more than 16gb of ram :c21:10
KotCzarnykerio: buy two, problem solved ;)21:11
keriobrilliant :o21:11
keriothey can even charge each other i think21:11
KotCzarnymore screen resolution too21:11
keriohonestly the razer blade 17" is what the macbook pro should've been i think :<21:13
KotCzarnyi treat my laptops as a console rather than workstation21:14
KotCzarnythat's why x40 is perfect for it21:14
sicelonow i wonder what's the highest res it can support :)21:19
KotCzarnysee xrandr output maybe21:19
KotCzarnyor just connect fullhd monitor and see how high can it go21:20
siceloif this is correct, the it's not bad at all,
siceloum .. wrong card :(21:28
KotCzarnyx40 has i945 afair21:28
siceloIntel Corporation 82852/855GM21:29
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KotCzarnythat means at least 1680x1050 is possible21:32
KotCzarnyand even 1920x1200 (from comments)21:33
sicelo  ... 2048x1536 too, it seems. :)21:38
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kerionice :o22:00
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freemangordonPali: why is that needed?22:38
freemangordonjonwil: hi22:38
Palifreemangordon: is needed for -dev package22:49
Paliand it should be in -dev package only22:49
freemangordonPali: ok, put devlocktool is linked against
freemangordonnot against libdevlock.so22:50
Paliwhen you use gcc's flag -l<something> it looks for file lib<something>.so22:50
freemangordonI know22:50
Palibut link name is getting from SONAME property of so file22:51
Palinot from filename!22:51
freemangordonah, I see22:51
freemangordonPali: I REed libdevlock and now packaging it22:51
freemangordonhow should I set that SONAME?22:51
Paliuse readelf -d <your_lib>.so22:51
Palithat will read content of so file22:52
freemangordonok, but how to set it in the makefile22:52
Paliand you can see SONAME of that libtary22:52
Paliif you want to set soname, you -soname parameter of ld22:52
Paliof *ld* linker not compiler22:52
freemangordonok, thanks22:52
PaliIIRC -Wl,-soname=<NAME> should be passed to gcc22:52
Pali-Wl as pass flag to linker22:53
Palibut check some other Makefile in community-ssy22:53
Palisome package should already use it22:53
Paliit has full target flags for
Palifreemangordon: or connui-conndlgs-wlan22:55
Palior osso-product-info22:56
freemangordonPali: no need, ^^^ linker falg works22:56
Palicheck those Makefiles and create similar22:56
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