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| Oksana | libdevlock1, libdevlock-bin, and osso-systemui-devlock are all apparently written by Nokia. | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
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| freemangordon | Oksana: well, I was asking about the developer | 00:14 |
| freemangordon | :) | 00:14 |
| freemangordon | I found who it is, its name is in devlocktool binary | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | *he is | 00:15 |
| merlin1991 | iirc the tklock didn't free the pixbuf for the image of the slider | 00:15 |
| merlin1991 | that leak was worse :D | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ooh, you're alive :) | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: well it is really not freed, but I woudn;t call that a leak | 00:16 |
| * Oksana wonders what "package imported" means, makes it more difficult to see .deb files from http://maemo.org/packages | 00:16 | |
| merlin1991 | Oksana: sample? | 00:16 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ah, you mean the stock one, not the REed one | 00:16 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: yep | 00:17 |
| Oksana | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/osso-systemui-tklock/0.2.2.18+0m5/ | 00:17 |
| freemangordon | yeah, it was leaking hard | 00:17 |
| freemangordon | Oksana: seems there was autobuilder for closed stuff | 00:17 |
| freemangordon | or they copied .debs by hand to stage | 00:18 |
| merlin1991 | import strongly hints at a "incoming" dir in the repo | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: while you are here - what's going on with CSSU-stable release? | 00:18 |
| Oksana | Hmm, where is non-closed http://maemo.org/packages/view/osso-systemui-tklock/ then? It should be somewhere in Extras, right? | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | Oksana: no | 00:18 |
| merlin1991 | Oksana: cssu | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu | 00:18 |
| infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | well, on github | 00:19 |
| merlin1991 | Oksana: https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-systemui-tklock | 00:19 |
| freemangordon | Oksana: https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-systemui-tklock | 00:19 |
| freemangordon | :D | 00:19 |
| merlin1991 | stable release, I'm strugling with time, but it will happen this weekend or within the next week | 00:20 |
| freemangordon | good | 00:20 |
| merlin1991 | but for -testing, I'm completely lost what in -devel is considered goot enough for -testing atm | 00:20 |
| Oksana | How does it get installed then, if it is not in repositories? Github has "releases" thingie, for publishing debs ;-) In case it cannot be put into autobuilder for some mysterious reason | 00:20 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: well, I am lost too, after all this time | 00:21 |
| freemangordon | Oksana: through CSSU repos | 00:21 |
| merlin1991 | Oksana: http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/pool/fremantle/free/o/osso-systemui-tklock/ to go for it directly | 00:22 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: but there was a script IIRC to compare -testing vs -devel | 00:22 |
| merlin1991 | but generally speaking the maemo.org packages interface does not pick up cssu stuff | 00:22 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: yeah but that doesn't tell me if the stuff in -devel is "good" ;) | 00:22 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: you mean https://github.com/community-ssu/cssu-state | 00:23 |
| freemangordon | you only need to tell me or Pali about the "stuff", I guess we'll know the status | 00:23 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: don;t remember what exactly does this script compare | 00:23 |
| merlin1991 | -stable -testing -devel and git | 00:24 |
| merlin1991 | fancy with colours | 00:24 |
| freemangordon | ah, yes | 00:24 |
| merlin1991 | all thanks to Pali | 00:24 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 00:24 |
| freemangordon | so that's a good starting point | 00:24 |
| Pali | yea :-) | 00:25 |
| Pali | hi merlin! | 00:25 |
| freemangordon | but there shouldn;t be much new stuff in -devel | 00:25 |
| Oksana | freemangordon: Thank you :-) /apologies for grumpiness, it would be neat sometime to have CSSU repositories visible in maemo.org packages interface, but it's a distant feature request, just like https for TMO, and thumb branch for auto-builder / | 00:25 |
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| merlin1991 | Pali: I read you mail about dirty cow, but to ship that we have to decide what we put in a cssu kernel | 00:27 |
| merlin1991 | up to now the only cssu with kernel is -thumb | 00:27 |
| Pali | yes | 00:27 |
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| jonwil | hi | 00:57 |
| Oksana | Why is Nokia still specified as maintainer of mce? mce is REed, right? | 01:01 |
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| Oksana | Doesn't libcodelockui1 have a corresponding libcodelockui-dev? Okay, libcodelockui1-dev... | 01:09 |
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| jonwil | I dont know who should be the maintainer for MCE but yeah it should be changed I guess :) | 01:29 |
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| jonwil | and yes libcodelockui has a dev package (although that reverse engineered clone is incomplete and still has the //todos that I added to let people know whats missing and still needs cloning) | 01:34 |
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| Rasiel | Is there have the sources of maemo system can use now ? | 01:40 |
| jonwil | what do you mean? | 01:40 |
| jonwil | some parts of maemo are open source, some have been reverse engineered and others are still closed. | 01:41 |
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| Rasiel | I want to use my Nokia N900 ,but the sources server is not work. | 01:45 |
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| jonwil | What exactly are you trying to do? | 01:48 |
| jonwil | Download packages from the nokia servers? | 01:48 |
| jonwil | If so, there is a way to get them working via an unofficial mirror although I dont know the details off the top of my head | 01:49 |
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| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95870 might help | 01:50 |
| jonwil | Still no closer to figuring out what I might do for the coding contest... | 01:50 |
| Oksana | Hmm, why do I see only osso-systemui-devlock, but not osso-systemui-devlock-dev or osso-systemui-devlock-dbg? Either not REed yet, or not put into repositories yet? | jonwil : Going by other packages, it should be called libcodelockui-dev, not libcodelockui1-dev. Compare: libosso1 and libosso-dev, for example. | 01:52 |
| jonwil | ask Nokia why its libcodelockui1-dev | 01:52 |
| jonwil | see http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries/4bc37c7c77ebe90177c050b805a8dc79/nokia-binaries/c/codelockui/ for the official binaries to confirm that :) | 01:53 |
| jonwil | as for devlock, so far all that's been reverse engineered is osso-systemui-devlock-dev | 01:54 |
| jonwil | unless there is something out there that isn't in CSSU | 01:54 |
| Oksana | jonwil: About coding contest: Look at small (and not so small) ideas at http://svetlana.nfshost.com/fs/maemo/#index1h1 | 01:55 |
| Oksana | osso-systemui-devlock-dev is not in repositories, yet... And osso-systemui-devlock-dbg will appear in repositories at the same time as osso-systemui-devlock itself, I guess | 01:55 |
| jonwil | osso-systemui-devlock package from Nokia is in nokia repos (or mirrors of those) | 01:56 |
| * Oksana meant REed version of osso-systemui-devlock ;-) | 01:57 | |
| jonwil | there is no REd version of osso-systemui-devlock | 01:57 |
| jonwil | just osso-systemui-devlock-dev :) | 01:57 |
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| jonwil | and osso-systemui-devlock-dev is in cssu-devel repo http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/o/osso-systemui-devlock-dev/ | 01:58 |
| * Oksana is currently wrestling with https://github.com/Wikiwide/osso-systemui-devlock/tree/master/debian ; a clone of tklock, so far changelog, compat and control changed from tklock to devlock | 01:58 | |
| jonwil | How are you going to do the reverse engineering? IDA? | 01:59 |
| Oksana | Beginning with groundwork, such as debian thingies. Will worry about .c later, using https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-systemui-devlock-dev and whatever can be useful. | 02:03 |
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| Rasiel | sorry ping time out | 02:05 |
| jonwil | if you dont understand reverse engineering, you probably wont be able to get osso-systmeui-devlock going, I understand what I am doing and I cant make it happen. | 02:06 |
| jonwil | But good luck to you anyway :) | 02:06 |
| jonwil | As for that list of ideas, ugh, Python. Not going there. | 02:08 |
| Oksana | Thank you :-) I will not forget about IDA, but I will take a look at objdump and radare, nevertheless. Some time later, after taking care of debian thingies | 02:08 |
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| jonwil | if you can make it happen, more power to you :) | 02:08 |
| gry | jonwil: I think half of the point is taking python apps and rewriting them in c and hildon | 02:08 |
| jonwil | yeah but I dont know python | 02:08 |
| jonwil | so I cant do that | 02:08 |
| jonwil | Dont know the first thing about korean so I cant do that either | 02:09 |
| Oksana | jonwil: I especially like idea of making GTK+Hildon calculator (frontend), to replace current Qt-based calculator. Tiny and not Python at all | 02:09 |
| gry | afaik we don't have to read the python, just look at what the app does and write the same logic in another language | 02:09 |
| gry | and it's not a reverse engineering task, just a question of hildonizing things | 02:09 |
| jonwil | none of those seem like things I care about either | 02:09 |
| gry | yes | 02:09 |
| gry | one thing at a time | 02:09 |
| jonwil | I dont care about mediaplayer things | 02:09 |
| Oksana | Hmm, feel free to RE something you care about :-) I just don't know much about innards of GPS and cellular, but would be glad to see either of them REed (even if only partially, one package at a time) | 02:11 |
| jonwil | yeah so would I | 02:12 |
| jonwil | but I lack the skills to pull that off :) | 02:12 |
| jonwil | as for calculator, the stock calculator is GTK is it not? | 02:12 |
| jonwil | Oh wait I see now, the stock calculator is GTK | 02:12 |
| jonwil | and the open clone is QT | 02:12 |
| jonwil | Which entity is referred to by BOM in the "BOM plugin for omweather"? | 02:14 |
| jonwil | its obviously some sort of weather agency | 02:14 |
| jonwil | but in which country? | 02:14 |
| Oksana | BOM is australian | 02:14 |
| jonwil | yeah | 02:15 |
| jonwil | duh | 02:15 |
| jonwil | I should know that, I check their website all the time :) | 02:15 |
| jonwil | I didn't even know they had an API... | 02:15 |
| * Oksana added a link to omweather bom plugin on github, it is possible that it just needs debian packaging? | 02:16 | |
| Oksana | Just refresh the ideas page, and you will see links. No idea how to make them click-able, they are currently in text | 02:18 |
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| Oksanaa | /me waves from mobile | 02:24 |
| jonwil | I dont really see anything on that page that I have any real interest in working on. | 02:25 |
| jonwil | Dont use my N900 for media things. | 02:25 |
| Oksanaa | Okay :-) feel free to recommend it to somebody else more GUI-oriented ? | 02:26 |
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| jonwil | the https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Tubes/ link seems broken btw | 02:26 |
| jonwil | it doesn't work | 02:26 |
| Oksanaa | Not for media things... Because of CPU or because of quality of speakers or because of something else? | 02:27 |
| jonwil | I am on my PC at home all the time for media things | 02:27 |
| Oksanaa | Yes, telepathy website changed recently. Refresh the page, there is a better "link" now | 02:27 |
| jonwil | and when I am out-and-about I dont want to do media things (I hate headphones and dont want to play music through speakers and annoy people around me) | 02:27 |
| Oksanaa | I like to play music on a bus at the same volume as ambient noise. More cheerful than just seeing gloomy people silently reading facebook | 02:29 |
| jonwil | What exactly is meant by "empathy chess integration"? | 02:29 |
| Oksanaa | Playing chess with a contact. Not with computer, not with a human located geographically at same phone, but with a telepathy contact at other side of the planet | 02:30 |
| jonwil | so empathy is an existing chess program? | 02:30 |
| jonwil | and this is about using telepathy to make it work on n900? | 02:30 |
| Oksanaa | Nay, telepathy is the provider of d-bus tubes. I am hoping that existing osso-chess-ui progam emits d-bus signals for the movies it is making | 02:31 |
| Oksanaa | Like: osso-chess-ui would send a d-bus signal over telepathy's d-bus tube, across Internet-or-something, to a contact with similar d-bus tube and chess-board | 02:32 |
| jonwil | osso-chess-ui is open source | 02:34 |
| jonwil | and it uses gnuchess as its engine under the hood | 02:34 |
| jonwil | so someone who actually knows how to play chess (and knows telepathy) could probably make it happen. | 02:34 |
| jonwil | But I dont know the first thing about how to program telepathy (which is why reverse engineering things that talk to it has been impossible for me so far) | 02:34 |
| Oksanaa | Yes, that's why it could be easy: it's relatively open-source. Hopefully, our telepathy is not too old for d-bus tubes | 02:35 |
| jonwil | and I keep soundly getting beaten every time by the AI on the maemo chess (even on the easiest setting) | 02:35 |
| jonwil | so that's not something I will do. | 02:35 |
| Oksanaa | I would also like GNU Go, and gui for it. It's not as well-known as GNU Chess, though | 02:36 |
| jonwil | I wouldn't mind Backgammon for the N900, that's a game I am actually good at... | 02:37 |
| jonwil | but writing a backgammon AI from scratch doesn't sound fun | 02:37 |
| jonwil | and I dont know of any existing backgammon game I could port | 02:37 |
| Oksanaa | A more intuitive (than Cute CW) version of Morse Code GUI could be good, too. | 02:37 |
| Oksanaa | jonwil: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/gnubg | 02:38 |
| Oksanaa | You would probably need to write frontend for it. But engine is already in existence, no problem | 02:40 |
| Oksanaa | And https://archive.debian.net/squeeze/gnubg | 02:45 |
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| jonwil | it already has a gtk ui although how one would go about porting that to the N900 I dont know | 02:46 |
| jonwil | It might be worth putting some of the things from that other link under https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Coding_Competition_2016#Wishlist | 02:47 |
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| jonwil | have a list there of things people want but cant do themselves | 02:48 |
| jonwil | so people who can code but lack ideas can go there and look for them | 02:48 |
| jonwil | right now that list is mostly sailfish stuff | 02:48 |
| jonwil | I might add the gnubg port to that wishlist :) | 02:49 |
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| Oksana | Porting has two levels. 1) Mostly unmodified package working on N900, dependencies matched, *.desktop probably moved to appropriate location, put into Extras-repository; 2) GTK ui completely re-written into Hildon, package renamed appropriately to reflect the difference from original | 02:53 |
| Oksana | gry: First, how to make external links on iki clickable? Second, consider copying some of the things from here under https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Coding_Competition_2016#Wishlist | 02:54 |
| gry | Oksana, [duck duck](http://ddg.gg) | 02:54 |
| gry | Ok, will do | 02:55 |
| * Maxdamantus has played a bit of gnugo (via qgo) on his N900. | 02:55 | |
| Maxdamantus | was quite slow, and I'm not very good at Go so was probably using a low level. | 02:55 |
| Maxdamantus | (the gnugo bit, that is) | 02:55 |
| Maxdamantus | Probably better to run it remotely to save battery and time. | 02:56 |
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| jonwil | Added the GNU Backgammon thing to the wishlist on the wiki | 03:03 |
| jonwil | As for the coding contest, nothing on the wishlist has any interest for me (dont do SFOS and dont use emulators on my N900) | 03:06 |
| jonwil | as for "remove proprietary graphics from games" its been done for chess and mahjong and just needs doing for lmarbels | 03:06 |
| jonwil | lmarbles | 03:07 |
| jonwil | chess and mahjong sounds have also been done | 03:07 |
| jonwil | I dont have the art skills to do it for lmarbles though so thats out :) | 03:07 |
| jonwil | plus that's not really coding in any case :) | 03:07 |
| jonwil | At this point unless I end up finding something on http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages that has yet to be reverse engineered AND that I have an interest in reverse engineering AND that I am capable of reverse engineering, the top contender for what I will do in the coding contest is an app for my local public transport agency | 03:10 |
| jonwil | The agency provides REST and SOAP APIs for doing route/journey planning | 03:11 |
| jonwil | and some Google GTFS and GTFS-realtime data for their routes and operations | 03:11 |
| jonwil | and their mobile site got rewritten recently and isn't usable on the old N900 browser anymore | 03:12 |
| jonwil | so an app using their APIs and data seems like a great thing. | 03:12 |
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| jonwil | Libs for doing rest/soap are easy to find (probably already something in the repos somewhere) | 03:13 |
| jonwil | and I bet there is code out there for parsing Google GTFS and GTFS-realtime data | 03:13 |
| jonwil | for the UI I am thinking QT since I know more about QT than GTK and since I have a big fat QT4 programming book sitting in my box of books :) | 03:17 |
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| * Oksana dislikes Qt; nothing personal, it's just not the "default" widget toolkit for Hildon; and it would be nice to have "universal" transport app, similar to "universal" email client Modest; with various plugins (GTFS, REST, SOAP APIs) requesting configuration (like, web-server, port, similar) | 03:28 | |
| jonwil | except that the APIs and data is likely to be totally different for each agency | 03:29 |
| jonwil | well not the Google GTFS | 03:29 |
| jonwil | but the APIs | 03:30 |
| Oksana | Well, that's the problem: need yet another plugin for each agency. Just like omweather and its plugins... | 03:30 |
| Oksana | However, if there were several well-known APIs (like GTFS), then one plugin would be enough for several agencies at the same time | 03:31 |
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| jonwil | oh great, looks like if I want to do Google GTFS-realtime data on Maemo I need to find a way to get Google Protocol Buffers working on Maemo | 06:05 |
| jonwil | and more so get them going with the ancient GCC 4.2.1 version Maemo is stuck with | 06:07 |
| jonwil | If I can find the right debian packages for protobuf (the runtime side in particular) I could try and back-port it | 06:07 |
| jonwil | That might be a good place to start | 06:07 |
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| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1517946#post1517946 | 07:59 |
| sicelo | jonwil: there is backgammon for n900, offscr-backgammon | 08:37 |
| Oksana | Is it open-source?.. | 08:43 |
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| jonwil | I think offscr-backgammon was in the old ovi store | 09:00 |
| jonwil | which is gone | 09:00 |
| jonwil | I dont believe it was open source | 09:00 |
| jonwil | in fact I am sure it wasn't | 09:12 |
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| bencoh | yup it's in ovi | 09:24 |
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| jonwil | If I can figure out how to read the GTFS and GTFS-realtime data on the N900 I think the transit app I am planning to write should be doable | 09:42 |
| bencoh | gtfs ? google traffics? | 09:43 |
| jonwil | Google transit | 09:45 |
| jonwil | public transport agencies publish data in that format and apps can use it | 09:46 |
| jonwil | GTFS provides data on routes, stops, schedules etc | 09:46 |
| jonwil | then GTFS-realtime is real-time tracking data on top of that | 09:46 |
| bencoh | don't they have a public API for that | 09:46 |
| bencoh | in json/xml iirc | 09:47 |
| jonwil | different agencies do different things | 09:47 |
| jonwil | The transport agency in my area provides Google GTFS data | 09:47 |
| jonwil | plus a GTFS-realtime data feed | 09:47 |
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| jonwil | plus also a REST/SOAP API for journey planning/scheduling | 09:48 |
| jonwil | all 3 of which I plan to use in my app | 09:48 |
| jonwil | REST isn't a problem, there are libs for that in the repos | 09:48 |
| bencoh | no I mean ... google has an api for that right? | 09:48 |
| jonwil | google doesn't have an API | 09:48 |
| jonwil | or if they do, its not one I have seen | 09:49 |
| jonwil | https://developers.google.com/transit/ is what I see with Google | 09:49 |
| jonwil | and that is just the specs for GTFS and GTFS-realtime | 09:49 |
| bencoh | they at least do for directions | 09:50 |
| jonwil | oh wait I see now, its part of the Google Maps API. | 09:50 |
| jonwil | But that's not what I need | 09:50 |
| jonwil | I have a specific feature set in mind for the app based on what I personally want to do with it. | 09:50 |
| bencoh | which is? | 09:51 |
| jonwil | I want to write something that uses the REST API to let me do journey planning (they have a mobile website but they recently upgraded it and now its useless on the N900 browser) | 09:51 |
| jonwil | And ' | 09:51 |
| jonwil | And I want to use the GTFS and GTFS-realtime APIs to track things | 09:52 |
| jonwil | I want something to track buses comming to the stop I am at | 09:52 |
| jonwil | and tell me when the next bus is due | 09:52 |
| jonwil | well bus/train/tram/ferry since this agency does all 4 :) | 09:52 |
| jonwil | I also want something that I can use (again via the GTFS-realtime data) to follow the vehicle I am currently riding on and display the upcoming stops so I know when to get off. | 09:53 |
| jonwil | The Google Maps API wont help with the features I want | 09:53 |
| jonwil | hence why I want to be able to read GTFS and GTFS-realtime data on the N900 | 09:54 |
| jonwil | GTFS is just text files and I bet I could find a C/C++ library that reads them and port that to the N900 | 09:54 |
| jonwil | But GTFS-realtime uses Google Protocol Buffers | 09:55 |
| jonwil | and so I need to figure out how to get that thing ported to the N900 | 09:55 |
| jonwil | https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/ | 09:55 |
| jonwil | well I was wrong and I cant find a C/C++ library for parsing GTFS | 10:01 |
| jonwil | but I am probably just not using the right search terms :P | 10:01 |
| jonwil | certainly though getting protocol-buffers working on the N900 is key to my app, otherwise I cant do what I want | 10:01 |
| bencoh | jonwil: err iirc I've built protobuf already | 10:09 |
| bencoh | just haven't had time to clean/push it to extras | 10:09 |
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| bencoh | jonwil: protobuf/c++ is already present in extras*, and I have protobuf-c lying around if you want | 10:14 |
| jonwil | is protobuf/c++ the latest version? | 10:17 |
| jonwil | and what package(s) do I want? | 10:18 |
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| bencoh | I dunno what you're looking for to be honest, so ... no idea ;) | 10:42 |
| bencoh | protobuf-c is 0.14 here | 10:42 |
| bencoh | protobuf is latest in extras ... 2.4.x | 10:42 |
| jonwil | According to https://github.com/google/protobuf/releases the latest release from Google is 3.1.0 | 11:13 |
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| jonwil | Looks like the .proto file for GTFS-realtime needs protobuf 2.x anyway | 11:36 |
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| jonwil | ok, I got the .proto file to spit out a .cc file and a .h file and the result compiles in scratchbox with the included gcc | 12:08 |
| jonwil | So that seems to be going | 12:08 |
| jonwil | So I got the protobuf stuff installed properly | 12:08 |
| jonwil | At least I hope so | 12:08 |
| jonwil | I also got librest for the REST api installed | 12:08 |
| sicelo | :) | 12:16 |
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| jonwil | now all I need is to find something to parse GTFS and I can start working on this app (well that and I need a name) | 14:25 |
| bencoh | "something? | 14:25 |
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| jonwil | a C/C++ library more specifically :) | 14:54 |
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| jon_y | jonwil: use flex/bison? :) | 15:05 |
| jonwil | I dont know the first thing about using flex/bison or how to write parsers | 15:14 |
| jonwil | I dont think flex/bison is the right tool for GTFS data in any case | 15:14 |
| jonwil | since its comma delimited text | 15:15 |
| jon_y | use perl :) | 15:16 |
| jon_y | $\ = q{,}; @results = map {...} <STDIN>; | 15:17 |
| jon_y | flex/bison isn't hard to pick up if you know regex | 15:18 |
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| _maniac_ | GTFS data is just a zip of csv-like files. not sure of GTFS-relatime, didn't touch that. | 16:06 |
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| jonwil | hi | 22:34 |
| CatButts | uhllo | 22:36 |
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