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| DocScrutinizer05 | avahi = poettering. completely fucked up protocol, that picks for example IP addr at random, then does ARP "poisoning" etc to find if another device already has that addr and to advertise its own addr to any DNServer in local network, or simply does its own ARP on own behalf to answer ARP requests from other devices etc | 02:07 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | a *nightmare* for any network admin | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | add one avahi device into a decently configured LAN and odds are you are gambling with the complete LAN going south, since NS collicions and whatnot | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I have no avahi on my maemo | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what we got is pretty okish dnsmasq | 02:10 |
| bencoh | protocol isn't poettering | 02:27 |
| bencoh | (even though it could be) | 02:27 |
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| KotCzarny | oh, lol, i just got a notification about '#maemo-meeting' on 2016-10-09 at 14:00 UTC | 08:37 |
| KotCzarny | on another note, what's the point of additional channel? if they wanted general audience with irc users, this channel could do? | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | or not. *shrugs* | 08:40 |
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| Oksana | Synfig may be interesting to port... | 09:59 |
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| bencoh | to n900?! | 10:12 |
| bencoh | oooh they released more morevna project "episodes" | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | well, before starting to port, open synfig, load sample project, then check memory usage in top etc | 10:14 |
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| Maxdamantus | Port as in optimising the UI for a small touchscreen/restricted keyboard? | 11:13 |
| Maxdamantus | or port as in getting it to compile? | 11:13 |
| KotCzarny | both | 11:13 |
| Maxdamantus | The latter really shouldn't be a thing. | 11:14 |
| Maxdamantus | Why hasn't someone just ported the maemo things to Debian? | 11:14 |
| KotCzarny | might be if libs are too old | 11:14 |
| KotCzarny | which might require adding glue funcs | 11:15 |
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| kerio | Maxdamantus: maemo is stuck at debian etch | 12:41 |
| kerio | roughly | 12:41 |
| Maxdamantus | Mainly because of glibc requiring 2.6.32? | 12:46 |
| bencoh | no | 12:48 |
| bencoh | there's a quick&dirty workaround for that one, and it's probably the least significant issue anyway | 12:48 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 12:49 |
| KotCzarny | so why dont we have 2.6.32 yet? | 12:49 |
| Maxdamantus | 2.6.32 isn't the easy bit. | 12:49 |
| Maxdamantus | the easy bit with glibc would be just patching glibc itself. | 12:50 |
| bencoh | it's more about closed-source core applications/services that depends on old ABIs | 12:50 |
| KotCzarny | go for it then send a patch to fmg ? | 12:50 |
| bencoh | like glib, gtk, telepathy, ... | 12:50 |
| bencoh | -s | 12:50 |
| Maxdamantus | Presumably those should be fixable gradually. | 12:51 |
| Maxdamantus | by just using LD_LIBRARY_PATH/LD_PRELOAD hacks around programs that require the old libraries. | 12:51 |
| bencoh | you cant afford that on a memory-starved embedded device | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | true that | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | otoh newer libs are usually fatter | 12:52 |
| Maxdamantus | Mm, maybe. | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | so upgrading might not have positive total effect | 12:52 |
| bencoh | and it'd be a real deps hell | 12:52 |
| * Maxdamantus is always running ntpd and mpd from a different root. | 12:53 | |
| KotCzarny | i wonder if maemo could be patched to some saner pkg system | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | ie. repack everything in the way arch has | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | (or slackware, he he) | 12:53 |
| bencoh | the "real" solution would be to keep working on FOSS replacements for core components, but .... | 12:53 |
| Maxdamantus | (though those probably involve libraries smaller than glib/gtk) | 12:53 |
| * Maxdamantus also uses Opera, so the browserd crap is mostly wasted. | 12:54 | |
| bencoh | once you can build from source every maemo core ports you're pretty good to go | 12:54 |
| bencoh | but I don't see that happen anytime soon | 12:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Dunno. I can't really see single duplicate gtk/glibc being a major issue. | 12:55 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: sms and other components use browserd to render | 12:55 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: yes, that was my point. | 12:55 |
| Maxdamantus | I basically have two browser engines in memory. | 12:55 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: gtk and friends is ~10-15MB | 12:55 |
| bencoh | and browserd is ~40M, but... | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | so you will have to double that regarding memory usage | 12:56 |
| bencoh | anyway I wouldn't want to deal with a double glib/gtk setup | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | imo on memory starved system having anything but essentials is a waste | 12:57 |
| KotCzarny | ie. is browserd required while on desktop? | 12:57 |
| Maxdamantus | "on desktop"? | 12:58 |
| Maxdamantus | You mean without SMS windows open? I think so. | 12:58 |
| KotCzarny | if i open sms app, let it load, but when im outside any of those apps it shouldnt be in mem | 12:58 |
| Maxdamantus | though I suspect not much of it will be in memory at that point. | 12:58 |
| bencoh | browserd actually eats quite a lot even when doing nothing | 12:58 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, if you've already loaded it it will be in memory. | 12:58 |
| bencoh | (mem-wise) | 12:59 |
| KotCzarny | maxd, make it a stub that will unload when nothing is using it? | 12:59 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not very good to constantly move things in and out. | 12:59 |
| bencoh | true | 12:59 |
| KotCzarny | or at least make some browserd-lite | 12:59 |
| Maxdamantus | far better to just have a tiny libx11-based program that can always be in memory. | 12:59 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: "unload when nothing is using it" means "loads when something uses it" | 13:00 |
| Maxdamantus | Linux will already discard it from memory when newer things try to use it. | 13:00 |
| KotCzarny | that means swap grind | 13:00 |
| Maxdamantus | The browserd binaries/libraries are mmapped. | 13:01 |
| Maxdamantus | swap would obviously be relevant for the anonymous pages. | 13:01 |
| KotCzarny | hum | 13:01 |
| KotCzarny | /usr/bin/osso-addressbook this thing shouldnt be constantly in memory | 13:02 |
| KotCzarny | and this /usr/bin/image-viewer | 13:03 |
| KotCzarny | that would free 15MB alone | 13:03 |
| Maxdamantus | It's usually not all going to be in memory. | 13:03 |
| Maxdamantus | They're mmapped files. | 13:03 |
| KotCzarny | how to check what is in mem then? | 13:03 |
| Maxdamantus | As processes try to access the content, they'll cause page faults which can copy things from the filesystem into memory. | 13:03 |
| Maxdamantus | Then as other things try to use memory Linux will discard those pages since it knows it can just read them again from the filesystem when required. | 13:04 |
| KotCzarny | i've killed image-viewer temporarily | 13:05 |
| KotCzarny | 15MB of mem got freed | 13:05 |
| KotCzarny | i mean 9 | 13:05 |
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| KotCzarny | 4MB of swap and 5MB of ram | 13:05 |
| Maxdamantus | If you were judging by "free memory" in `free`, that would probably be anonymous maps, not /usr/bin/image-viewer | 13:05 |
| Maxdamantus | Killing a process won't normally immediately remove files from memory. | 13:06 |
| KotCzarny | maxd, i just wanted to see if it makes a difference | 13:06 |
| KotCzarny | bastard got restarted anyway | 13:06 |
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| Maxdamantus | That happens lazily: as processes try to access pages that aren't currently in memory, Linux will discard pages that haven't been accessed recently (possibly moving them to swap in the case of anonymous maps). | 13:06 |
| KotCzarny | maxd, then i repeat my question, how to check what is currently occupying real mem? | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | There are some obscure interfaces in /proc | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | maybe `vmallocinfo` | 13:08 |
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| Maxdamantus | Hm, no, not that. | 13:09 |
| KotCzarny | smaps? | 13:09 |
| KotCzarny | ie /proc/<pid>/smaps | 13:10 |
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| KotCzarny | its heap is ~2.5MB | 13:11 |
| Maxdamantus | I think pagemap | 13:11 |
| KotCzarny | which means allocated buffers | 13:11 |
| Maxdamantus | * Bit 62 page swapped | 13:11 |
| Maxdamantus | * Bit 63 page present | 13:11 |
| Maxdamantus | ah, and kpagecount was the global thing I was thinking of. | 13:12 |
| KotCzarny | i think private_dirty are things that are counted into real mem usage | 13:15 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: there is a .desktop property to autostart process in maemo, btw | 13:15 |
| KotCzarny | (and shared_dirty) | 13:15 |
| Maxdamantus | "real mem usage"? | 13:15 |
| bencoh | something-prestart | 13:15 |
| Maxdamantus | real mem usage should normally be 100% | 13:15 |
| Maxdamantus | unless you've just booted the system. | 13:15 |
| bencoh | (x-maemo-prestart or something like that) | 13:15 |
| Maxdamantus | unused RAM is basically a waste. | 13:15 |
| Maxdamantus | See also: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ | 13:16 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: im talking about memory that would have to be swapped out if new app requires more mem etc | 13:17 |
| Maxdamantus | So resident anonymous maps? | 13:17 |
| KotCzarny | apparently shared_dirty+private_dirty | 13:18 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: thx, i've just disabled it (for testing) | 13:18 |
| KotCzarny | i guess i will go kamikaze and disable prestarting of browserd too | 13:20 |
| KotCzarny | and messaging ui | 13:20 |
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| Maxdamantus | So then you just have to wait for it to load from the filesystem when someone sends you the first SMS rather than from swap (assuming other processes have pushed it out of memory). | 13:21 |
| KotCzarny | hrm, it doesnt exit after clicking 'x' | 13:21 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: just tried it, and startup time isnt much worse | 13:22 |
| KotCzarny | ~1s when it loads msg db | 13:22 |
| Maxdamantus | and yeah, it doesn't use a separate browserd process for each window. | 13:22 |
| KotCzarny | well, im talking about /usr/bin/rtcom-messaging-ui | 13:22 |
| KotCzarny | pity. prestarted trick would only help initial device boot time | 13:23 |
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| KotCzarny | apps dont quit on clicking 'x' | 13:24 |
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| Maxdamantus | Typical applications should. rtcom-messaging-ui probably considers itself special. | 13:24 |
| Maxdamantus | like IE in some versions of Windows. | 13:25 |
| KotCzarny | is it opensourced? | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Dunno. | 13:25 |
| KotCzarny | ~closed | 13:25 |
| infobot | methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Some of it is made up of accessible HTML/JavaScript/CSS, at least. | 13:25 |
| * Maxdamantus changed the way messaged are laid out by modifying that. | 13:26 | |
| KotCzarny | almost none of rtcom- packages are opensourced | 13:27 |
| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/images/9/94/Top_level_architecture.png | 13:28 |
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| KotCzarny | oh, it unloaded, yay | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | (after some inactivity) | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | so, right now i have ~41M free and 84M cached according to top | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | without any adverse effects (yet) | 13:46 |
| Maxdamantus | It was probably due to activity, not inactivity. | 13:46 |
| Maxdamantus | if you're talking about file pages being discarded from memory. | 13:46 |
| KotCzarny | maxd, ive launched 'conversations' and closed it by 'x', then went doing some work, now i dont see it in the process list | 13:47 |
| KotCzarny | that's what i mean by 'unloaded' | 13:47 |
| KotCzarny | lets go leroy jenkins and unload call ui too | 13:47 |
| Maxdamantus | Right, so its RSS went down. | 13:47 |
| KotCzarny | though this might make me miss calls and i dont have second phone to check atm | 13:48 |
| Maxdamantus | because other thing caused page faults trying to use memory, so those browserd pages became the least recently used at some point. | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | maxd, nope, phone was idle and there is ~40M free atm | 13:49 |
| Maxdamantus | it's probably never truly idle. | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | idle as in screen blanked | 13:50 |
| Maxdamantus | so it's still on. | 13:50 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 13:50 |
| Maxdamantus | things are still running, accessing memory. | 13:50 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 13:50 |
| KotCzarny | i hunt things that arent used by system/other things when user does nothign | 13:50 |
| KotCzarny | *nothing | 13:51 |
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| bencoh | Maxdamantus: he just means that process eventually stopped running | 14:34 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't think that's what he means. | 14:35 |
| Maxdamantus | afaik browserd/rtcom-messaging-ui never just stops. | 14:35 |
| KotCzarny | [root@Main-N900:/usr/share/applications/hildon]# ps axww|grep messaging | 14:35 |
| KotCzarny | 2563 root 1596 S grep messaging | 14:35 |
| KotCzarny | [root@Main-N900:/usr/share/applications/hildon]# | 14:35 |
| Maxdamantus | Hm. Weird. | 14:36 |
| KotCzarny | if you set it not to preload always it will exit eventually | 14:36 |
| KotCzarny | which is actually nice if you dont use sms much | 14:38 |
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| Sicelo | i have a silly bluetooth problem - N900 does not generate a pin to pair for one particualr device (which it was able to pair fine before). it can still generate pin & pair others. any ideas how to hunt this one down? | 15:07 |
| KotCzarny | maybe it's paired/authorized? | 15:07 |
| Sicelo | i deleted all pairings on N900 | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | <obligatory joke> reflash? </obligatory joke> | 15:08 |
| Sicelo | haha | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | reset/take out batteries out of the bt device? | 15:09 |
| KotCzarny | though it might have things written to some eeprom | 15:09 |
| Sicelo | did that. no help :( | 15:09 |
| KotCzarny | clear /var/lib/bluetooth ? | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | (maybe backup it first) | 15:11 |
| Sicelo | didn't try that one .. will try shortly | 15:12 |
| Sicelo | what i did was remove all entried in gconf | 15:12 |
| Sicelo | and wanted to try reinstalling all bt* stuff | 15:16 |
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| Sicelo | or do we have alternative way to pair, e.g. via cmdline? | 15:28 |
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| Sicelo | yay! did it with simple-agent :) | 16:51 |
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| _maniac_ | heh. I tried to update to CSSU-testing and phone became unresponsive. nokia logo -> blank screen and nothing. not even five dots. | 17:08 |
| _maniac_ | any way to find out what's broken? | 17:08 |
| KotCzarny | low battery? | 17:09 |
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| _maniac_ | no, battery was about 80% full when I did the update. | 17:32 |
| KotCzarny | what happens when you try to turn it on? | 17:33 |
| _maniac_ | nokia logo and then black screen. | 17:34 |
| _maniac_ | it is in PC-Suite mode when I plug it in, will try ssh'ing now. | 17:34 |
| KotCzarny | maybe bad kernel (ie. stock one) | 17:34 |
| KotCzarny | were you updating from stock or from cssu? | 17:34 |
| _maniac_ | well, no replies from 192.168.2.15 | 17:35 |
| _maniac_ | from cssu. | 17:35 |
| _maniac_ | I had cssu stable and power-kernel | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | got any weird packages? (ie. multiboot) | 17:35 |
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| _maniac_ | bootmenu | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | ~bootmenu | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | ~ping | 17:37 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:37 |
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| KotCzarny | does it work still? | 17:38 |
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| KotCzarny | i would try flashing kernel alone (from cssu-testing) | 17:38 |
| _maniac_ | mhm, will try | 17:40 |
| _maniac_ | can't find kernel package in cssu-testing repo | 17:52 |
| bencoh | I'd rather try kernel-power, but ... | 17:54 |
| bencoh | aaah, right | 17:54 |
| bencoh | which kernel did you have? | 17:54 |
| bencoh | and the problem with reflashing kernel only is that you might end up with missing compatible modules | 17:54 |
| KotCzarny | he had powerkernel before update | 17:55 |
| KotCzarny | but also had bootmenu, which could be anything | 17:55 |
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| Sicelo | if he had bootmenu, then the vanilla kernel should boot, and he can then figure out which PK he had | 18:20 |
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| _maniac_ | welp, my bootmenu don't have any kernel options, just 'internal nand (maemo 5)' and bootmenu utilities. | 18:42 |
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| Sicelo | that's vanilla kernel then .. | 19:16 |
| _maniac_ | oO | 19:19 |
| _maniac_ | I'm pretty sure I had power-something in uname -a before | 19:19 |
| Sicelo | you may have .. but what i am saying is the vanilla kernel most likely still had the correct modules. that is what the default bootmenu setting uses. how you were booting your pk i don't know (assuming you didn't create any *.item files for it). just load the vanilla kernel without flashing and see if that gets you in. it should | 19:22 |
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| KotCzarny | http://i.imgur.com/eWqKRIK.png | 19:56 |
| KotCzarny | winamp skin mode done | 19:56 |
| KotCzarny | now onto fixing few bugs and packaging | 19:57 |
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| _maniac_ | "if he had bootmenu, then the vanilla kernel should boot" - nope, my bootmenu boots to 2.6.28.10-power53 | 20:37 |
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| _maniac_ | I mounted rootfs but can't find anything in /boot there. according to /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel{,-power}.list kernel images should be there. | 20:39 |
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| Sicelo009N | mine are in MyDocs/bootmenu.img.d/ | 20:45 |
| _maniac_ | I don't have such directory | 20:47 |
| _maniac_ | but I extracted them from downloaded deb and going to try flashing now. | 20:47 |
| Sicelo009N | then how are you using bootmenu? or for what? :-) | 20:47 |
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| _maniac_ | I installed boot menu to be able to do full fs backup in case of fuck ups like this. | 20:49 |
| _maniac_ | but I didn't do one. | 20:49 |
| KotCzarny | well, you can always run rescueos for that | 20:49 |
| KotCzarny | no need to flash anything to device | 20:49 |
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| KotCzarny | http://i.imgur.com/zI6XzIE.png | 21:18 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:18 |
| _maniac_ | almost like the original! | 21:20 |
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| _maniac_ | ah, I give up and going full reflash. | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | new start, new possibilities | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | go for css-thumb | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | cssu-thumb | 22:46 |
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| _maniac_ | well, latest reflash (which I was running before) was broken in various small ways | 22:48 |
| _maniac_ | aptitude segfaulting, extra decoders package doing NOTHING, missing url input in UML-browser | 22:48 |
| KotCzarny | sounds like you were having fun with it | 22:49 |
| _maniac_ | !!FUN!!, yes. | 22:50 |
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