IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2016-10-09

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buZz\o/04:59
buZzbought a N81004:59
buZzto compliment my N770 and N800 :)04:59
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sicelo:)08:05
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sunshavibuZz: how much was it?08:32
buZzi paid 20 gbp + shipping08:34
buZzhe was asking 60 gbp iirc08:34
sunshavi60 gbp in dollars?08:35
buZzno in gbp :P08:35
buZz74.62 US Dollar08:35
sunshavinice price08:35
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sunshavii have been using for several years my n80008:36
buZzi didnt want to go over 50 so lowballed08:36
sunshavilast month i switched to n90008:36
buZzyeah n800 was my first maemo device08:36
buZzbut just .. last year? hmm08:36
sunshavilast month08:36
buZzyeah i mean, i didnt have maemos before a year ago08:37
sunshavin800 was my always on machine08:37
sunshavii used it for listening streams, fm radio, as a bluetooth access point08:37
sunshavibut after a month it needed a reboot08:38
sunshavin810 has more mem, that is nice08:38
buZzand the keyboard08:38
sunshavin800 is what i have been using for irc08:38
sunshavinow, all those functions are done by the n90008:38
sunshaviyeah, keyboard is nice too08:39
sunshaviwould n810 kbd be better than n900 kbd?08:40
sunshavido you own an n900?08:40
buZznot yet08:40
sunshaviok, then later You could tell which one is better :)08:41
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DocScrutinizer05I think N810 kbd is better09:28
DocScrutinizer05meh he left09:28
CatButtssomeday n900, someday...09:32
CatButtsmaybe when I get my first salary09:33
Vajbi liked e90 keyboard (i know it is not maemo device but meh)09:33
Vajband only problem with n900 keyboard is disappearing signs (physical wear)09:34
DocScrutinizer05indeed09:37
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CatButtsthat doesn't sound very nice09:38
CatButtsoh, speaking of keyboards09:40
CatButtshow does the n900 one ghost?09:40
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CatButtsI had a chingchong usb keyboard that could do 3, maybe 4 keys at once09:40
CatButtsnow I have an old hp one which ghosts past 2 keys09:40
Vajbghost?09:41
CatButtswhen you press more keys at once, only part of them are registered09:41
Vajbu mean when u type something signs don't appear instantly?09:41
Vajbah09:41
Vajbwell at least maemo has 3-key combinations09:41
CatButtsI use PC keyboard as makeshift piano keys09:41
CatButts3 should be enough09:42
Vajbi think i game across with that problem with ms wireless keyb while playing frets on fire09:42
Vajberr came across*09:43
bencohpressing 3 keys at the same time on n900 isn't exactly ... comfortable09:43
CatButtshaha yeah, forgot to factor in the size09:44
Vajbbencoh: but the question wasn't about that ;)09:44
bencohsure09:45
bencohas for ghosting there are a few combinations that won't work properly09:45
Vajbcan admit that with ctrl+shift one needs to use something else than just thumbs....09:46
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KotCzarnynokia 5510 kb was pretty nice to use10:08
KotCzarnyimo much better than n810/n90010:08
KotCzarny(hw kb wise)10:08
KotCzarnybetter spacing, more thumb typing friendly, more keys10:08
bencohhmm, dunno10:09
KotCzarnyand it actually had spacing between keys, do you wouldnt press 2 at the time by mistake10:09
bencohit was nice alright10:09
KotCzarnys/do you/so you/10:09
infobotKotCzarny meant: and it actually had spacing between keys, so you wouldnt press 2 at the time by mistake10:09
Vajb5510? Was it the device where the screen was inbetween rows of keys?10:15
KotCzarnyyup10:15
KotCzarnyand had hw mp3 player10:15
KotCzarnywith 64mb of flash10:15
KotCzarny:)10:15
KotCzarny(otherwise it was pretty standard 331010:15
Vajbright. Here they marketed it as "sms'er phone"10:15
KotCzarnyyup. and it delivered10:15
bencohand fm radio .... 64MB was pretty low btw10:15
KotCzarnytyping on it was a prleasure10:15
Vajbnever had one10:16
bencohand sms were still pretty costly at that time, so ....10:16
Vajbso it was great marketing10:16
KotCzarnyi still have one in the closet10:16
Vajbit supported long sms too?10:16
KotCzarnyflash went buh-bye by itslef10:16
KotCzarnyi think yes10:16
bencohyeah it did10:17
Vajbthat was great invention then10:17
Vajbfor mobile operators :)10:17
KotCzarnyAdvanced SMS messaging: Chat, concatenated messages, templates, and smileys10:17
bencohhuhu10:17
Vajbi heard somewhere that 140 characters wasn't the original plan, but they decided it because they thought no one will use them anyway10:18
KotCzarnyvajb, adding unicode support mad it really suck10:19
KotCzarny*made10:19
KotCzarnyso you had 70chars per message10:19
Vajband now we are getting back to basics since everyone is using twitter which has 140 characters afaik10:19
KotCzarnybtw. sms is 160 chars10:20
Vajbnowadays it has been funny to read old game magazines where they advertize custom operator logos, ring tones and screensavers10:20
Vajbit is?10:21
KotCzarnyyup10:21
bencohdepends on encoding10:21
Vajbmy memory is having some joke over me...10:21
KotCzarnyThese were defined in 1985 as part of the Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) series of standards[5][full citation needed] as a means of sending messages of up to 160 characters to and from GSM mobile handsets10:21
bencoh(there are some 7bits tricks as well)10:21
KotCzarnyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Message_Service#Message_size10:24
KotCzarnyamazes me how voice connection is cheaper than sms10:29
KotCzarnywould be nice to implement some modem interface over voice channel (that would go through compression)10:30
KotCzarnyhere sms costs ~40s of voice (on prepaid)10:31
Vajbi guess it's about the same everywhere10:31
bencohVajb: some countries/operators have really cheap unlimited sms plans10:33
Vajbi use mostly just data so i don't care much :)10:33
KotCzarnyhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/SMS_messages_sent_monthly_in_USA_%28in_billions%29.svg10:33
KotCzarny;)10:33
Vajbwell true10:33
KotCzarnyone can hardly say it's obsolete tech ;)10:33
Vajbwe have monthly packages of sms for fixed price10:33
KotCzarnyits a great way to send inormation when voice isnt feasible for any reason10:34
KotCzarnysimilar to email but without need for having an account10:34
Vajbbut it is somewhat disappearing or atleast sliding off from standards...10:35
Vajblike n900 can't receive sms from samsung galaxy s610:36
KotCzarnythats because people like those idiotleys10:36
Vajbaha10:36
KotCzarnyin my days we had colon and parentheses. and it was good!10:37
* KotCzarny grumbles10:37
Vajbin my days we didn't have phones. Instead we went to visit.10:38
Vajbi bought my first phone when i turn 1810:39
Vajbnow idiotic parents buy phone for their 3 yo infant10:39
KotCzarnysing of days10:39
Vajbhmm maybe fetus phone will be next big step10:39
KotCzarnysperm phone?10:40
KotCzarny;)10:40
Vajbit even rhymes10:40
Vajbhmm why not. We have sperm banks already10:40
KotCzarnybut dont worry, our civilisation is on the brink of another dark age10:41
KotCzarnyso enjoy while you can10:41
KotCzarnywe had pretty good 50 or so years of bright developments10:42
Vajbup and downs10:42
Vajbirony of life10:42
KotCzarnynope, just balance of things10:45
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ceenesms are expensive because they made them so11:08
ceenebut sending an sms is essentialy free for the network11:09
DocScrutinizer05initially (in protocol specs) they been meant to be free ;-P11:13
KotCzarnyknowing people, having sms service free they would hack ghetto-internet protocol over it :P11:17
KotCzarnywell, more ghett-bbs11:18
ceenei don't now why, but sms do have a feeling different than IM11:19
KotCzarnybecause you have to pay for it maybe?11:20
ceeneit's like sending/receiving a telegram: it must be important11:20
ceenedon't know, i remember one summer movistar made them free as a promotion, for a while11:21
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ceenei don't think i've sent as many whatsapps as sms i sent that summer :D11:21
bencoh(you cant send whatsapps anymore anyway :p)11:22
KotCzarnyanother thing is people tend to have phones nearby, and getting sms is almost always heard11:22
KotCzarnyin case of computer based im its not always the case11:23
ceenebip bip bip   biiiiip biiiiiip   bip bip bip11:25
KotCzarnymorse code for sms11:25
ceeneyeah :D11:25
ceenenokia was the best thing to happen to mainstream technology11:25
KotCzarnysad thing they are no more11:26
KotCzarnysamsung just makes commercial toys11:26
KotCzarnyalmost no innovation11:27
ceeneinnovation is not easy, though11:35
ceenei want to set up a business, but all i can think of is selling muffins or a restaurant :D11:36
ceenei can't think of any useful technological thingy11:36
ceenelol11:36
Vajbceene: maybe fetus phone?11:39
KotCzarnyceene, kickstart marvel soc based router/nas/ip cam board?11:39
KotCzarnyiot is on the rise nowadays11:40
bencohceene: muffins <311:40
ceene:D11:40
KotCzarnyif you manage to pack 2x sata, 1x minipcie, 2xgbit, at least dual core cpu, 1gb ram onto board for less than 20usd you will be a winner11:41
KotCzarny;)11:41
ceenedon't know, yeah, maybe any kickstarter would reach critical mass11:41
bencohpotato salad11:41
bencoh(it really looked good)11:41
KotCzarnyespressobin board is very tempting, but they made shipping price crazy11:41
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KotCzarnyhey, c wizards, what is the difference between *c[] and **c ?12:28
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: in a declaration, one is the designator for an array of pointers, the other a designator for a pointer to a pointer.12:56
KotCzarnyhmm, and in use?12:57
Maxdamantuswell, "declarator" is the proper term iirc12:57
KotCzarnyim asking specifically because of getline()12:57
Maxdamantusone's an array, the other's a pointer.12:57
KotCzarnyit requires **p as an arg12:57
hexnewbieIn use, one's invalid syntax (I think), the other dereferences a pointer twice.12:57
KotCzarny(but it really needs an address of the first char)12:57
MaxdamantusThey're both valid declarators, just not actual expressions.12:58
KotCzarnyor may i ask another way, how to pass *c[] to getline()12:58
KotCzarnyfor **c its just getline(&c, ...)12:59
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: you probably don't want to.12:59
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: if you pass `c` to getline, it will read and update `*c`.13:00
KotCzarnywait, i've asked wrong. how to pass c[] to getline(), for *c=malloc() its just getline(&c, ..)13:00
ceeneyou don't want to pass *c[] to getline13:00
ceenegetline requires a pointer to a pointer13:00
ceenebecause inside getline there's already a malloc()13:00
Maxdamantusif you have a `char c[x];`, you should probably create a pointer into `c` then pass the pointer to that.13:01
hexnewbieKotCzarny: You cannot. getline will allocate new memory, and give you back a pointer.13:01
Maxdamantuschar *p = c; getline(&p, ..)13:01
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KotCzarnyhmm. but in getline manual it says you can pass already allocated buffer13:01
hexnewbieKotCzarny: OK, I'm wrong. Yeah. Sorry.13:01
MaxdamantusIt is already allocated in this case.13:01
ceeneyou can char *c=malloc() and then call getline(&c...)13:02
Maxdamantus*p is already pointing into an array; it's not NULL.13:02
ceenebut &c in that case is a pointer to a *c, thus **c13:02
KotCzarnyi know, i've done it. but i wonder how to write it using c[]13:02
hexnewbieKotCzarny: I'd still prefer if getline() to allocate it for me, though.13:02
MaxdamantusWhat are you expecting `getline` to **UPDATE** if you just give it a `char [x]`?13:03
ceeneyou could char c[]="whatever" and call getline(&c... but that will end up causing an error13:03
ceenebecause getline can't make c point to any other thing than "whatever", because it's not a pointer13:03
Maxdamantusceene: you can't even call that.13:03
Maxdamantusceene: &c is a pointer to an array, not a pointer to a pointer.13:03
hexnewbieKotCzarny: I read the man page. You *cannot* pass an array there, as it may try to run realloc() the pointer you passed. This means it has to be malloc()ed, and not an array allocated on the stack13:03
KotCzarnyuhum13:03
Maxdamantushexnewbie: that's wrong.13:04
hexnewbieMaxdamantus: Which part? :)13:04
Maxdamantushexnewbie: it caring how the memory is allocated.13:04
hexnewbieMaxdamantus: Alternatively,  before  calling  getline(), *lineptr can contain a pointer to a malloc(3)-allocated buffer *n bytes in size.  If the buffer is not large enough to hold the line, getline() resizes it with realloc(3), updating *lineptr and *n as necessary.“”13:05
MaxdamantusAh, okay, nvm.13:05
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MaxdamantusKotCzarny: maybe what you want is `fgets`13:07
KotCzarnyahm right. i forgot about it13:07
KotCzarnythx!13:08
ceeneso, a kickstarter for muffins...13:19
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KotCzarnyi should've started writing in gtk available for maemo.15:59
* KotCzarny grumbles15:59
bencohindeed15:59
KotCzarnyGSocketConnection is available since 2.32. eh16:00
KotCzarny2.14 seems.. antique16:02
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DocScrutinizer05((bip bip bip   biiiiip biiiiiip   bip bip bip)) = S M S (morse)17:05
* CatButts furts17:05
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KotCzarnyfurts?17:33
_maniac_purrs and farts (probably)17:41
CatButtsno, just farts17:43
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ceenei'm bored17:52
ceenemaybe i'm boring, too17:52
KotCzarnyhrm, gethostbyname fails for ip addr17:53
KotCzarnywth17:53
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sicelomeh .. so i had been making life hard for myself on N900 .. not getting the benefits of the avahi daemon that we have always running21:11
sicelogot to adjust my iptables rules21:11
ceenewhat do you use it for?21:48
ceenei've never quite guessed what it does21:49
sicelolike Bonjour on Apple devices21:49
ceenedon't know what that is either21:50
KotCzarnymaking life easier for users, and harder for devs/distro maintainers21:50
ceenesomething about selfdiscovering something?21:50
siceloit allows you to connect to your device via hostname from any network that you are connected to, without having to first discover/know the IP address21:50
siceloyes, that21:50
KotCzarnypart of the dbus/nm/systemd cabal21:50
sicelolike PA, it's on our N900, and we can't run from it .. so may as well use it :-)21:51
KotCzarny:)21:51
siceloi am not planning to install it on my laptop for example21:51
KotCzarnyofftopic, oscp-remote-gtk works on n900. yay. and the same code compiles/works on pc linux/windoze(mingw)21:52
ceenecool!21:52
sicelodidn't it work on N900 before?21:53
KotCzarnyits funny how different versions of gtk trigger different kind of bugs21:53
KotCzarnysicelo, i've ported pygtk to native gtk21:53
KotCzarny18M -> ~9M of ram usage21:53
KotCzarnyfewer dependencies too21:53
KotCzarnyalso, writing app in gtk is easy once one make few defins/helper funcs21:54
ceenehow hard is gtk gui design?21:54
siceloawesome (the halving of RAM use)21:54
ceenei just don't know how to design guis :(21:54
KotCzarnyceene, depends, if you know 'this button i want on this side, that list on that side' its easy21:55
KotCzarnyceene, see setup_window() in the source21:55
KotCzarnyie. you have to prepare widgets (buttons, labels, windows), then pack them inside other widgets and show21:56
KotCzarnyadding few callbacks and its done21:56
ceeneall that signal connecting, though...21:56
KotCzarnynah, its easy, you use one or two templates max21:57
KotCzarnyi would've probably put those signal connects into helper function if i digged out how to pass functions to functions21:57
ceenepointers to functions :)21:58
KotCzarnygtk syntax if descriptive as 70yo man21:58
KotCzarny*is21:58
KotCzarnyoscp-remote-gtk is quite complete (i still have to add dbus to the mix, /me shrugs)21:58
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