IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2016-05-02

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DocScrutinizer05>>This "users are too stupid" argument is nonsense made up by big corporate software to justify continuous revenue streams based on features that get in our way. To see a smoking gun, go to This interview with Red Hat CTO, Brian Stevens, search the first occurrence of the word complexity, and read that paragraph and the one below it. That's the explanation for the explosive complexification of some realms of Linux in the past two decades.05:47
DocScrutinizer05Those two paragraphs also provide a possible explanation when you ask why systemd came uncomfortably close to conquering the world.<< - I always said this was a root rationale for RH to pay Poettering for systemd05:47
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DocScrutinizer05>>In 2001, when I joined Red Hat and built the enterprise engineering team, we weren't being as aggressive as we could have been about driving innovation in open source. We were mostly packaging existing open source software. We wanted to change tha<< yeahyeah, we already got you05:51
DocScrutinizer05business models, my ass!05:53
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OksanaDriving innovation... Get aptitude to work without segfaulting, first. There is so much software in the world that creating new one, to the point of abandoning existing ones, makes no sense. And an example of Unix philosophy: 'dos2unix' is working miracles around here!08:32
Oksanaaptitude looks kind of ancient: Not sure just what it would take to install newer aptitude onto maemo 5, though...08:41
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DocScrutinizer05note that RH supports RPM only08:44
DocScrutinizer05now THAT wold be innovation08:44
infobotRed Hat's package management system. URL:
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OksanaAren't RPM's used somewhere on Nokia N9?..08:48
OksanaAnyway, new aptitude's list of dependencies is ridiculously long. Search engine, libxapian22 , what for?.. I would understand it as recommendation, but as dependency?..08:50
DocScrutinizer05see and the OS listed there: "Meego"08:52
DocScrutinizer05prolly you meant that regarding N908:52
OksanaLikely, yes. Unless Nemo Mobile uses it, too; do not remember exactly08:54
DocScrutinizer05I don't follow Nemo / Mer / Jolla / Sailfish closely anymore08:54
DocScrutinizer05for me the thrill got lost in all that08:55
DocScrutinizer05it turned out it's just another harmattan layered over an Android RIL08:56
DocScrutinizer05not what i'm looking for08:56
Oksanalibapt-pkg4.12 is ugly dependency, because it requires libc6 v2.8 (which means risk for everything else that uses libc6)08:57
DocScrutinizer05too much of the "fenced garden" mindset where a company or $entity provides the complete system and you're free to basically develop your fart apps inside, and to choose the wallpaper08:58
DocScrutinizer05not my take on FOSS08:58
DocScrutinizer05or, in short:09:00
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05not really, but sort of same mindset09:00
DocScrutinizer05I hoped after Nokia went down, Jolla would have learned and avoid to do same mistakes again. actually it rather seems they try to bring that very concept perfection09:01
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DocScrutinizer05no flasher, C'MON!09:02
DocScrutinizer05hah, nice cloak!09:03
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Vajbit seems that i can't receive whatsap messages from nokia anymore. My friend said that there was update which stated that messages in this conversation will be encrypted and since that messages sent to me have been undelivered.10:39
Vajbi asked if there is possibility to sent them unencrypted but he couldn't find it.10:40
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ceeneVajb: you talking about yappari?10:46
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Vajbsure. Only working whatsap client as far as i know11:22
ceenethen you're a bit late to the party11:23
ceenego and read that :)11:24
Vajbi've read it awhile ago, but it has working for me so far11:28
ceeneyou've been just lucky then11:28
ceeneencryption is mandatory now11:28
Vajbthink i'll look for jabber or something which can send and receive photos.11:29
ceenei'm constantly working on yappari11:29
ceenebut there's still work to do11:29
Vajbi can still receive from android11:29
ceenefrom one particular android11:29
ceeneonce that user gets the "Version too old, you must upgrade"11:29
Vajbyeah i've been following ur struggle :/11:29
ceenehe'll start sending encrypted messages11:29
ceeneas a plan B i've found a telegram library written on qt11:30
Vajbif there is upgrade made for it...11:30
ceenethat i think could be made the new backend for yappari11:30
Vajbit is old android device11:30
ceeneso yappari gui for telegram could be a thing11:30
ceenethen he'll face the same problem as we do11:30
ceenefrom 2017 no more releases for S40 nor old android phones11:31
Vajbshe* ;)11:31
ceenewhatsapp won't care :P11:31
Vajbcool policy11:31
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Vajbim just waiting when they make it illegal to use road if ur car is too old...11:33
DocScrutinizer05ooh, I thought that's already in effect?11:33
DocScrutinizer05called TUEV11:34
DocScrutinizer05luckily their policy isn't driven by commercial interests (yet)11:34
ceenei still can drive my 23yo car :)11:34
ceenealthough i've had problems this months trying to find tires11:35
Vajband i can use my 21yo11:35
ceeneit's insane they require me to use a V velocity code11:35
ceenethat's 220km/h11:35
Vajbit can get booze for me already :p11:35
ceenemy car won't reach that11:35
ceeneand it's illegal in spain11:35
ceeneso why the hell do i need V velocity code for my tires?11:35
DocScrutinizer05'can use' and "make it illegal" are to segregate things, no?11:35
ceenewell, mine can physically be driven and is legal11:36
ceenealthough diesel engines may end up being forbidden from entering city centers in a few years11:36
WizzupVajb: They enforced that here in Amsterdam11:37
DocScrutinizer05here only as long as you pass the technical test which is called TUEV in Germany and I bet you got something similar in spain11:37
Wizzupmany scooters that predate 2013 or so cannot be used in the city anymore11:37
WizzupIt's great news for people who just use bicycle, like me.11:37
Vajbbut nice "problem solved" for phone manufacturers. Let's make all old phones unable to join network if newer model is out.11:37
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: yes, it's the ITV here11:37
WizzupVajb: whatsapp should provide an update for the phone11:37
Wizzupbut it makes sense that they want everyone to use E-to-E encryption11:37
ceenethe problem is my car won't pass the ITV if tires aren't a match for what the technical card says11:37
ceeneand they've mostly stopped making tires the size my car needs with V velocity code11:38
DocScrutinizer05V is already quite high11:38
ceenewhich is insane, as V is 220km/h and in spain the most you can go is at 120km/h11:38
ceeneso it's simply absurd11:38
DocScrutinizer05this is not about what you're allowed to go but what the car actually *can* go11:39
Vajbmy car didn't pass inspection, but it will as soon as i fix that security hole near back tire :p11:39
ceenewell, of course my car at 23yo can't go at 220km/h11:39
ceenesome horses have died during these years11:39
DocScrutinizer05though, here you coulds simply stick a (160km/h) round red-white sticker to your steering in the car and have tires that are not rated higher than 16011:40
ceenethat would be great11:40
ceenebut i think that's not possible here11:40
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DocScrutinizer05seen this a lot in the past for particularly winter tires. Dunno if it still applies, though11:41
ceenethey've told me the only course of action is talking to a ford dealership and get them to modify my thecnical card so it specifies a lower speed code11:41
freemangordonceene: you should take a better care for you r car11:41
ceenefreemangordon: once my car dies, i won't be buying a new one11:41
ceenei only keep it because i already have it and emotional attachment11:41
freemangordonlucky you, I can't make it without a car11:42
ceeneeconomically doesn't make any sense for me now11:42
ceenei live less than 3km from work11:42
ceeneso i always go by bike11:42
* DocScrutinizer05 heads out for a few service tasks on his scooter11:42
freemangordonme too, but I rarely stay at the office, usually I am at customer's site11:42
Wizzupfreemangordon: to be fair, a car is also much safer in bulgaria than a bike... I've mostly not used my bicycle there...11:42
freemangordonwell, I have bike, and honestly see no problems, at least in Sofia11:43
freemangordonthe last couple of years there are lots of new bike lanes11:43
freemangordonbut maybe it depends on what you're used to11:44
WizzupI guess so - I haven't seen many of the bike lanes apart from the one near the trainstation11:44
WizzupGuess I'm moving around in the wrong parts ;-)11:44
WizzupBut yes, in amsterdam bikes are basically untouchable11:44
freemangordonmaybe. the southern parts are full of bike lanes11:44
Wizzup(re: depends on what you're used to)11:44
ceenewell, gotta go now guys11:45
ceenei'm doing paella today :P11:45
ceeneit's holiday here today11:45
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zGrrmoin :)12:05
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abc123is there any way to disable 3,5G and leave 3G ? Using qt Mobile Hotspot with my operator at 3,5G causes worse internet quality (can't even use IM) than 3G15:03
abc123now i'm using metal rod placed near GSM antenna to worse the signal15:08
MaxdamantusDo you have buttons that say "Dual", "GSM" and "3G" in the menu that appears when you press the battery thing in the status bar?15:13
MaxdamantusHm, I think it's from 3g2g-mode-selection-applet15:14
DocScrutinizer05abc123: err, 3.5G is a station capability you can't choose15:16
abc123i'm using advanced interface switcher15:16
DocScrutinizer05like 2G and 2G-edge aka 2.5G15:17
DocScrutinizer05you can't disable EDGE and you can't disable the .5 in 3.515:17
DocScrutinizer05well, technically you may could trick the phone into not using EDGE15:18
DocScrutinizer05though that's quite hard to accomplish15:18
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MaxdamantusSo what does it mean when Maemo says "3.5" vs. "3"?15:21
auenfx4hspa probably15:22
Hurrian_3.5 means that you're in UMTS (3G) mode, connected at HSDPA/HSUPA rates15:23
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DocScrutinizer05hspa, yes15:34
Hurrian_also, anyone here played around with microcells?15:34
DocScrutinizer05not yet15:35
DocScrutinizer05at least not officially ;-)15:35
Hurrian_sucks that they're not too useful without a whole GSM core network set up15:35
Hurrian_getting a hold of an LTE eNodeB would be more fun :315:35
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues osmocom15:36
infobotFactoid search of 'osmocom' by value (1): rrlp.15:36
infobothmm... rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
DocScrutinizer05Harald and friends "played" with microcells15:37
Hurrian_oh $DEITY, I haven't went through the massive pile of GSM specs yet15:37
DocScrutinizer05how do you think we get GSM at CCC and CCCamp ?15:38
Hurrian_Fun with a couple of Ettus USRPs? ;)15:39
Hurrian_I wanted to go that route but... money15:39
DocScrutinizer05I dunno what exactly they use15:39
DocScrutinizer05no USRPs anyway15:39
DocScrutinizer05rather real microcell 2W transponders, and a PC for the BSC15:39
DocScrutinizer05transceivers rather15:40
Hurrian_dedicated 2W NodeB's, or RF fed through amplifiers?15:40
Hurrian_...nice, and they got to play with them in open air15:41
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Hurrian_oh man, I almost forgot about DECT, despite having cordless phones all around the house (goodbye 2.4G wifi!)15:44
Hurrian_thanks, doc! Now I've got a reading list to start my RF hobby...15:46
DocScrutinizer05for RF hobby you also might want to google for rtlsdr15:48
DocScrutinizer05SDR for <20 bucks15:49
Hurrian_yep! I've got mine and I'm hooked.15:49
DocScrutinizer05and they do truly amazing things15:49
DocScrutinizer05hehe aaaah15:49
DocScrutinizer05google rad1o15:50
Hurrian_been biking 'round my neighborhood, tuning around the RF spectrum15:50
Hurrian_...and damn, did it open up a whole new world of exploration for me ;)15:50
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