IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2016-04-24

zamn900anyway I can understand quite well what's coding like00:00
zamn900oh and about OTR thing we could know about since months ago00:01
zamn900many months ago leaked new about this whatsapp otr thing00:02
zamn900I would have warned you mates... but I always suppose you are cooler than me00:03
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ceenei sure am not00:04
ceenei'm the idiot who bought his first n900 just a couple of months before scorpius stopeed supporting yappari00:04
ceeneand since nobody had stepped up... it was me00:05
zamn900that's an honor all of yours and your teammates00:05
zamn900get some fresh eyes...00:06
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zamn900have a nice day...00:07
ceeneyou too00:07
zamn900do your duty with joy00:07
zamn900get some renereting fuck too00:07
zamn900do all your best00:08
zamn900just because you are the hero in this ok?00:08
zamn900that said00:10
zamn900infobot has to go in jail00:10
zamn900bots shall never rule our world00:11
zamn900Good Coding! (Y)00:11
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keriococaine is one hell of a drug01:04
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: huh?02:11
DocScrutinizer05kerio: so you have a mission to destroy it *all*? ;-D02:13
* DocScrutinizer05 destroys a little bit of ethanol02:13
kerioi don't even drink .-.02:14
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to head out, there must be more of that which needs getting destroyed02:14
DocScrutinizer05or wait... did it finally become obvious _what_ caused D. Trump?02:15
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KotCzarnyhmm, i wonder why nobody found it earlier: Znaps or the copy ZEUSS Easy Connect08:43
KotCzarnyseems like a magic pill to solve n900 usb port issue08:45
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Palifreemangordon: ping10:58
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Palifreemangordon: n900 patches are rebased on top of 4.6-rc4 but now without camera and v4l patches12:15
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Pali~seen jonwil12:19
infobotjonwil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23h 3m 1s ago, saying: 'hi'.12:19
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L29Ahnvm i vote for Wizzup, Pali and freemangordon13:04
L29Ahmake n900 great again!13:05
Hurrianguys, does the N900/N9 do binary PDU mode for sending SMSes?13:12
WizzupL29Ah: to be fair, I've mostly done some testing, I haven't done much coding apart from some input code :)13:15
KotCzarnywe need testers too13:15
L29Ahbuilding a distro out of the meta distro is much work as well actually13:19
L29Ahespecially with such an unusual hardware13:20
WizzupI'm close to writing some blogs on where I am now, and where I want to go13:22
WizzupMany driver things I'll try to just mention (mostly userland, how to config, etc)13:22
WizzupIt's probably on the net somewhere in most cases13:22
DocScrutinizer05eeew vote, right?13:23
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KotCzarnyl29ah, you know what are council tasks, right?13:25
KotCzarnydevs shouldnt have to waste time on secretary work13:25
freemangordonPali: great, thanks :)13:25
freemangordonKotCzarny: :nod:13:25
DocScrutinizer05dang, tomorrow!13:25
DocScrutinizer05this doesn't sound right!!!13:26
DocScrutinizer05only 6 days13:26
DocScrutinizer05Election period: 25 April 2016 - 01 May 2016 (23:59)13:28
L29Ah13:25:22]<KotCzarny> l29ah, you know what are council tasks, right?13:28
KotCzarnyl29ah: council tasks have nothing to do with code13:29
KotCzarnythey arent even bug-fixing related13:29
L29Ahcan they at least fix the "anti-spam" bullshit that pesters every other guy there?13:29
DocScrutinizer05vs "Starting 2016-04-25 00:00:00 UTC: Community Council Election Q2 2016" on
L29Ahmeh ok, screw it then13:30
L29Ahi sell my vote for 0.01฿13:30
Palifreemangordon: can you put on top of it all camera patches?13:31
DocScrutinizer05council should put this on their agenda, to investigate solutions13:31
DocScrutinizer05I have a very hard time to see how TOR exit nodes, when not blocked, could DDoS random pages of tmo by mass *reading* them :-(13:34
DocScrutinizer05I easily can see how this is a fair bit of work to fix this in vBuletin13:35
DocScrutinizer05stopforumspam is maybe nice, but only when used in a reasonable way13:37
freemangordonPali: that's the idea13:38
freemangordonPali: will take me some time though13:38
freemangordonso, once I have cameras working with that, I'll send a RFC patchset13:38
DocScrutinizer05(spam) so the right concept would be to only block regiatration/login via stopforumspam blacklicsts, and handle all DDoS attacks by more generic means, e.g. in the firewals13:40
DocScrutinizer05throttling, fail2ban, whatever13:40
DocScrutinizer05in a post-snowden time it's a nogo to tell users they can't use TOR to *read* the forum13:41
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: I buy!13:42
DocScrutinizer05unless that's BTC crrency13:42
DocScrutinizer05silly GDR/USSR elections, we can chose one out of 6 who's NOT going to be council13:43
KotCzarnyhmm, is there a tool similar to diff but smart enough to ignore whitespace, newlines etc in c code?13:45
L29Ahsure it's btc13:45
ceeneyou can use indent first13:46
DocScrutinizer05if others had pondered my suggestion to have 5 "nobody" on every candidate list too, this would be more fun13:46
KotCzarnyceene, but without pre-processing?13:46
KotCzarnybecause i know i can tidy the files, but then i will lose some info13:46
L29Ahwtf karma13:46
ceenewhat info will you lose?13:46
L29Ahcan i just reg a ton of bots to earn karma for me and my clones and be done?13:46
KotCzarnyformatting, timestamps13:47
L29Ahstartforumspam party13:47
DocScrutinizer05thanksbots will go a long way13:47
ceenethere's nothing that does that i think... maybe some statistical analysis tool13:48
DocScrutinizer05but actualy wikiedits work great too13:48
DocScrutinizer05ooh, my ignorelist13:48
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KotCzarnyceene, if there is a tool that tidies code without touching the files to find which parts of the code changed13:49
KotCzarnyit would be not that hard to write for c/c++ syntax13:49
ceenemaybe clang has something like that13:50
KotCzarnyie. 'if things are in "" dont touch, else s/[ \n]+/ /'13:50
KotCzarnyand maybe s/[\(\)\{\}]/ \1 / first13:51
ceenei still think indent is the way13:51
ceenemy code doesn't change almost anything when passed through indent13:52
KotCzarnyyes, that would work if diff could do it without touching the files13:52
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KotCzarnymaybe i'll just pass things through indent/diff as a hinter for changes13:53
DocScrutinizer05there are quite a few options in diff already13:53
DocScrutinizer05to ignore spaces, treat tabs and spaces alike, etc13:53
DocScrutinizer05after all diff been written by c-coders, with c and git in mind13:55
KotCzarnysimplest case:13:55
KotCzarny{do something}13:55
KotCzarnyvs if() {do something}13:55
DocScrutinizer05not really optimized for python, but should deal with c formatting13:55
Palior: do_something if cond;13:57
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: council can't fix bugs, but they can coordinate bugfixing and have a loud saying in maemo administration at large13:57
KotCzarnypali, well, that's an overkill13:58
* DocScrutinizer05 thinks BTC are like Talents, which were ~30kg silver14:03
DocScrutinizer05>>Ein Talent war generell in 60 Minen unterteilt. [...] Das Gewicht einer Mine betrug in der Zeit des Peloponnesisches Krieges ca. 430 Gramm<<ünze)14:05
DocScrutinizer05>>Ein typisches Segelschiff kostete ein Talent<<14:06
DocScrutinizer05>>Marcus Licinius Crassus, der als reichster Römer zur Zeit Gaius Iulius Caesars gilt, hatte am Ende seines Lebens ein Vermögen von 7100 Talenten.<<14:07
M4rtinKSo you can say "Romans had Talent" ? ;-)14:08
DocScrutinizer05*many* :-D14:10
L29Ahoh there is combining "||"14:12
DocScrutinizer05some romans had many talents, many romans had some talents, no roman had no little fraction of talent ;-D14:12
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: gIbBerISh14:13
* DocScrutinizer05 checks if xchat still alive ;-P14:16
* DocScrutinizer05 uses the general rule of "don't use special chars like € or B⃦ or whatever, when you're not in control of the rendering"14:35
* DocScrutinizer05 uses e.g EUR instead14:36
* DocScrutinizer05 doesn't even use ö in 'joerg'14:36
DocScrutinizer05some exception:14:38
DocScrutinizer05time for more ☕14:38
DocScrutinizer0512 648 43014:38
DocScrutinizer05~0xc0ffee * 114:39
infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss14:39
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(14:39
DocScrutinizer05~0xff * 214:40
DocScrutinizer05~#ff * 214:40
DocScrutinizer05~ffh * 214:40
DocScrutinizer05~0ffh * 214:40
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DocScrutinizer05[notice] >>The voting period for the specified election starts on 2016-04-25 00:00:00 (UTC) and ends on 2016-05-01 23:59:59 (UTC). It is not possible to vote now.<<15:17
DocScrutinizer05so voting starts in a little less than 10 hours15:17
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DocScrutinizer05the wiki is not correct15:18
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ceenewho should I vote?15:20
DocScrutinizer05the question rather is who is the one you don't vote for ;-D15:20
ceeneso who shall be punished with my indiference?15:21
DocScrutinizer055/6 will become council15:21
KotCzarnyceene: do a coin toss15:21
DocScrutinizer05ceene: that's really up to you. I'd try to keep out the one who demonstrated poorest understanding of what council is all about15:22
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: i don't understand what council is all about15:23
DocScrutinizer05where in my book council is NOT: governance and leadership15:23
ceeneso there's that...15:23
KotCzarnysecretary/paper work15:23
DocScrutinizer05council is a secretary/steward15:23
DocScrutinizer05no leader15:23
DocScrutinizer05also council is not about development or technical administration, but rather for moderation and coordination, in worst case delegation/assignment15:24
DocScrutinizer05council for example should take care (or delegate task) to grant upload rights to repos, and worst case - in case something goes awry - remove packages from repos. For this a bit of general technical understanding would help15:26
DocScrutinizer05right now council should take care about that very unfortunate TOR blocking on tmo, inquire suggestions for solutions and coordinate their evaluation and implementation15:27
ceeneit sounds it all like a hassle :)15:28
DocScrutinizer05for this also some technical understanding helps, to discern sound arguments pro/contra some solution from excuses15:28
DocScrutinizer05council is hassle15:29
DocScrutinizer05the more when some council members have funny agenda like "I'll reach out to jolla now, demand council reviews their source code and approves if it complies with maemo spirit" or the like15:30
DocScrutinizer05in this regard my general advice: don't vote patent lawyers into council! ;-P15:32
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ceenethere's a qt library for telegram16:16
ceenethat's a good thing16:16
ceeneat least i could reuse yappari as gui for that16:16
DocScrutinizer05one more thin g that comes to mind for council: official adoption of devuan instead of debian for recommended maemo base16:17
DocScrutinizer05I.E. an official recommendation to devels16:18
DocScrutinizer05and I guess an inquiry to techstaff resp warfare and xes about expected lifecycle of server HDDs until preemtive service swap would be in order to16:21
DocScrutinizer05s/ to/ too/16:22
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: and I guess an inquiry too techstaff resp warfare and xes about expected lifecycle of server HDDs until preemtive service swap would be in order to16:22
DocScrutinizer05s/ to$/ too$/16:22
luke-jrceene: last I checked you can't even really build telegram sanely16:23
luke-jrit requires a bunch of patches to other libraries16:23
ceenei was thinking about this16:23
ceeneseems to support qt416:24
ceenealthough now that you say it, i don't know if it's an implementation of telegram or16:25
ceeneor just its bindings16:25
ceenei think it's a full implementation16:25
DocScrutinizer05well, check if the lib you want to use actually depends on patches in other libs16:27
DocScrutinizer05if so, you might need to "import" and rename those libs too16:27
DocScrutinizer05-Dtelegram-glibc ;-P16:28
ceeneit seems to be compiling just fine on scratchbox16:29
DocScrutinizer05sounds like the perfect candidate for static linking16:29
ceeneexcept for this16:29
ceeneUtils.cpp:42: error: integer constant is too large for 'long' type16:29
ceenewhat the16:29
ceenestatic const quint64 s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21);16:29
KotCzarnygood one16:30
KotCzarnyalmost as good as debian's rng16:30
DocScrutinizer05"how to make your implementation platform-dependent"16:30
ceeneok, someone explain me why quint64 is not 64 bits long16:31
DocScrutinizer05wtf *is* quint64?16:31
DocScrutinizer05#define quint64 long16:31
ceenetypedef quint6416:31
ceeneTypedef for unsigned long long int (unsigned __int64 on Windows). This type is guaranteed to be 64-bit on all platforms supported by Qt.16:31
ceeneLiterals of this type can be created using the Q_UINT64_C() macro:16:31
ceene quint64 value = Q_UINT64_C(932838457459459);16:31
ceenei don't think their concept of "guaranteed" is the same as mine16:32
* DocScrutinizer05 wonnders how to find a new word for ROTFL16:32
ceeneok, so all of qt is broken on maemo16:33
DocScrutinizer05s/on maemo//16:33
ceenehow do i fix that?16:33
ceenepatch whole qt?16:34
ceeneuse inttypes.h16:34
DocScrutinizer05maybe fix this one silly const?16:34
DocScrutinizer05use strcmp()?16:34
DocScrutinizer05or whatever16:34
ceene#include <inttypes.h>16:35
ceenestatic const uint64_t s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21);16:35
ceeneUtils.cpp:43: error: integer constant is too large for 'long' type16:35
ceenewhat's the thing that is broken?16:35
ceenemaemo's glibc?16:36
* DocScrutinizer05 doesn't grok s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21); at all16:36
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DocScrutinizer05is s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint() a function or what?16:36
ceenei don't care about the meaning, at least now16:36
ceenei wanna know why uint64_t is not 64 bits long16:36
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ceenei believe that's something from openssl16:37
DocScrutinizer05I wanna know if the result/return of s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21) is 64bit at all16:37
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DocScrutinizer05aaah typecast?16:38
ceene$ rgrep s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint telegram-qt/16:39
ceenetelegram-qt/telegram-qt/Utils.cpp:static const quint64 s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21);16:39
ceenetelegram-qt/telegram-qt/Utils.cpp:    result.fingersprint = s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint;16:39
ceenegoogle search for s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint only returns this very same source code16:40
DocScrutinizer05it needs to have a definintion/implementation somewhere, no?16:40
ceenei guess so16:40
DocScrutinizer05my c(++) foo is extremely weak16:41
DocScrutinizer05I don't understand what's the real meaning of the whole sourcode line   static const quint64 s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21);16:42
DocScrutinizer05I'd expect sth like   static const quint64 s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint = 0xc3b42b026ce86b21;16:42
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ceeneif quint6416:44
ceeneis not a basic type16:44
ceenebut an object16:44
DocScrutinizer05but a macro16:44
ceenenope, a c++ object16:44
DocScrutinizer05or an object, yes16:44
ceeneit's defining a object named s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint16:45
ceeneinitialized with 0xc3b42b026ce86b2116:45
DocScrutinizer05and hands the value to the constructor16:45
ceenethat's right16:45
ceeneso it'd be equivalent to static const uint64_t s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint = 0xc3b42b026ce86b21;16:45
DocScrutinizer05but then the object needs definition/imlementation somewhere16:46
ceenequint64 is defined by qt16:46
ceeneso that's just creating a quint64 object named s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint16:46
DocScrutinizer05so check the qint64 object implementation16:46
ceenes_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21); -> s_hardcodedRsaDataFingersprint(0xc3b42b026ce86b21ULL);16:47
DocScrutinizer05quint64 even16:47
ceeneit's a compiler thing16:47
ceenei got :)16:47
ceeneit was confusing for a while16:47
ceenebut if that's all that is needed...16:47
ceeneit's a hell lot easy16:48
ceenethere's even a testApp included16:51
ceenei'll test that later16:51
ceeneor maybe now16:52
DocScrutinizer05where could I find the definition of quint64?16:52
ceenei can't still login on whatsapp with libwa16:52
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's the compiler's notion of type of 0xc3b42b026ce86b21, versus *ULL16:55
Linkandzeldawould anyone be interested in a google authenticator maemo app?16:56
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DocScrutinizer05please elaborate, maybe it's just me who doesn't get it since I don't use google16:57
Linkandzeldavarious websites offer a 2 factor authentication system which uses an app called google authenticator16:58
DocScrutinizer05that thing16:58
ceenethis telegramapp may work indeed16:58
Linkandzeldaits basically a key store which then gets run through thier algo to produce a timed number every 30 seconds16:58
Linkandzeldayou get to scan a qr code containing the name/key16:59
Linkandzeldaor enter name + key manually16:59
DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: I bet many users would consider that useful16:59
Linkandzelda if im going to ditch my android i need that app, or something16:59
ceenei've never used that thing, but i'm sure it's used by many people17:00
Linkandzeldaim not an expert on security or encryption though, not sure how to store the keys safely17:00
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Linkandzeldayea i saw that17:01
Linkandzelda this too17:01
DocScrutinizer05 yep17:02
Linkandzeldathough it may work, maybe something more user friendly would be good17:02
Linkandzeldai get annoyed having to enter those codes all the time, so speed and access is important17:04
Linkandzeldai dont know, it might be a good first n900 project for me17:04
DocScrutinizer05(safely store) maybe with a different owner and read permissions only for that owner, so you need a sudo to that other owner to read the file?17:04
Linkandzeldacould work, i could make them enter the password for that user on startup17:05
Linkandzeldawould basically act like a master password or master unlock code17:06
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DocScrutinizer05yep, or even start a process that communicates with your main process via IPC (pipe?) but changes effective user from beginning to access the file17:07
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Linkandzeldanot sure how to even do that, but yea i could try17:07
Linkandzeldawas going to use python17:07
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, make the process be member of a unique group "gauth" and the file is owned by gauth and only group-readable for gauth17:09
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DocScrutinizer05implementing some obfuscation otoh is considered pretty useless and user-hostile17:16
DocScrutinizer05when a rogue process already took over the system so it may read the file, then it also may read the program text of the app and find out how to decode the obfuscated key17:17
DocScrutinizer05this sdoesn't apply when you use proper encryption that needs manual entry of the decryption key17:18
DocScrutinizer05this would be another viable approach: decrypt the stored key at boottime, by entering the decryption key17:19
DocScrutinizer05then keep the decrypted key in RAM in a var17:19
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Siceloceene: sounds like you're officially killing Whatsapp on N900?17:24
DocScrutinizer05sec-hardcore folks will argue you should not keep such stuff in RAM, so not even root may reed it out. It's arguable17:25
Siceloceene: in favor of telegram?17:25
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ceeneSicelo: i'm not doing anything yet17:26
ceenebut i'm searching for a plausible alternative17:26
ceenein fact i'm right now trying to get libwa to login17:26
ceeneby making it emulate Android instead of S4017:26
ceenejust in case...17:26
ceeneyowsup does that and it works17:26
Sicelookay :)17:26
ceeneso why the hell can't i17:26
ceenethis telegram thingie looks promising, though17:27
zZap-Xcan yowsup run on a n900?17:27
ceenemaybe, yes17:27
ceeneit depends on python2.7 or better 317:27
Siceloyesterday i was thinking about telegram: it has a public API, right?17:28
ceeneyes, telegram is much free than whatsapp17:28
zZap-Xhow about this running on a n900
ceenedon't know17:28
zZap-Xthis might be useful
ceenei know about that17:31
zZap-Xeven whatsapp-purple is dead :(17:32
zZap-Xwas using that with bitlbee17:32
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ceenethis piece of shit won't login17:52
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ceenei don't know what the fuck is wrong21:42
ceenei can't keep reading code in search of the truth21:43
ceeneand i can't find anything that is different or wrong21:43
L29Ahsounds like a rock song21:44
ceenei also hate all the other WA coders21:45
ceeneexcept for cepiperez, who has helped me before21:45
ceenebut i think he lost his phone21:46
ceeneand has no compouter21:46
ceeneor something like that21:46
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L29AhMachinae Supremacy - Stand21:46
ceenei'm gonna try now chat-api instead of yowsup21:48
ceeneto see if i can debug it somehow21:48
ceeneand find differences21:48
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ceenenobody here can help22:21
ceenei wonder22:21
ceenewho are all those 170 people who never say even hi...22:21
KotCzarny~~california hotel theme jingles in~~22:21
ceeneKotCzarny: you can code22:22
ceenehelp me!22:22
KotCzarnyi can code, but i hate c++ a bit22:22
ceeneso do i22:22
ceenebut you don't really need to code anything22:22
ceenejust help me understand what's wrong22:22
ceenecompare with other implementations22:22
KotCzarnytask #1: RE the login protocl (in plain c or python)22:22
KotCzarnyignore everything else22:23
ceeneand tell me why the heck this thing won't work22:23
Siceloceene: i had offered :)22:23
ceenethat's true22:23
KotCzarnyjust make some proof of code that can login22:23
ceenei dind't get back to you22:23
Siceloof course i can't code anything .. so maybe KotCzarny might be better22:23
ceeneKotCzarny: that code already exists22:23
ceenewritten in python22:23
ceenebut it's there22:23
ceeneand it works22:23
KotCzarnyceene: rewrite from scratch in c22:23
KotCzarnyoutside of anything22:24
ceeneit's not that easy22:24
KotCzarnyjust rewrite and add logging everywhere22:24
ceenefirst step22:24
ceeneis rewritting token translation22:24
ceeneprotocol is basically xmpp22:24
KotCzarnyk, step pre#1: rewrite token translation22:24
ceenewith keywords replaced by binary code22:24
KotCzarnydont try c++. just plain c.22:24
KotCzarnyif it works, you will have a starting point22:25
ceenei don't want to reimplement all of that :s22:25
ceenethat's why i'm trying to use libwa22:25
ceenei understand your reasoning22:25
ceenebut it's daunting22:25
KotCzarnydebugging someone's other code could be much worse22:26
ceenein either case22:26
ceenei have to do that22:26
ceenebecause reimplementing that22:26
ceenemeans having to read python or php code22:26
ceeneand translate it to c22:26
ceeneso... why not go directly to the implementation i need to fix?22:26
KotCzarnybecause qt.22:27
ceeneqt is not the problem22:27
ceenelogin functions are 3 or 422:27
ceenewhich are not so big22:27
ceeneso why the fuck do they not work22:27
KotCzarnybecause there is a bug somewhere22:27
KotCzarnybut you cant pinpoint the exact location in the flow22:28
ceenei can also try with whatsapp-purple22:28
ceeneit's only c++, without qt22:29
KotCzarnyso if you dont want rewriting, you will have to do it step by step in some existing app22:29
ceenei hate it all22:29
KotCzarnynite nite22:36
ceenelet's change approach22:39
ceeneforget about libwa22:39
ceeneit's a piece of shit22:39
ceenei need to implement axolotl on yappari22:39
ceenemy yappari version right now logins in22:39
ceeneit's only missing encryption22:39
ceenei don't understand anything, yappari and libwa is basically the same code22:39
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ceeneby the way23:27
ceeneall WA implementations23:27
ceeneare stupid in at least one way23:27
ceenein the same stupid way23:27
ceene    else if (tag == "stream:error")23:27
ceene    else if (tag == "stream:features")23:27
ceeneetc, etc23:27
ceenewith dozens of comparisons like that23:27
ceenewhen tag has been converted from a dictionary23:28
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ceeneso why the hell is there a need to decode that?23:28
ceenecase dict["stream_error"]23:28
ceenecase dict["stream:features"23:28
ceeneetc, etc23:28
ceenewell, switch(tag) directly23:28
ceenethat should be a hell lot faster23:29
ceeneat least there wouldn't be dozens of strings comparisons23:29
ceenenot to speak of O(1) search23:29
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