IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2016-04-22

Sicelothat's bad00:00
ceenei keep trying, comparing different implementations...00:03
Sicelothat guy is using his code on which application?00:03
ceenebut libwa used same old protocol version as yappari, and that version is deprecated00:03
ceenechat-api, a php implementation00:03
ceenethis guy is from my city indeed00:04
ceenebut he seems a little... don't know00:04
ceeneisn't as willing to share as i had hoped00:04
ceenedon't understand why, he says he wants to deter spammers from making use of the software00:05
ceeneso he won't publish yet his implementation of the new protocol00:05
Sicelomaybe hoping for some financial gain?00:06
ceenei should however be able to use the previous one, but for some reason i can't get it to login00:06
ceenedon't know... he hasn't asked for anything00:06
ceeneright now i don't even need a programmer, just someone to help me compare my implementation with others00:07
ceenethankfully the yowsup team has even test units, so maybe i can use them to find where my code is wrong00:08
ceenebut it all takes a lot of time and energy00:08
Siceloyowsup still going?00:08
Siceloceene: "someone to help me compare my implementation with others" ... how?00:09
ceenei think so... i'll have to test yowsup directly with one of my numbers00:09
ceenejust reading the code would be helpful00:09
ceenei' tired of rereading it all without reaching a sane conclusiion about what's different00:10
ceenei'm a bit obfuscated myself maybe00:10
Siceloi wonder if a non-programmer will make sense of code :/00:10
ceeneit may be possible, i guess00:10
ceeneat least for someone who is a little bit literate00:11
Sicelobut you can send me the links to the code in question, and i could look at it tomorrow after work :)00:11
Sicelodon't expect a lot,00:11
ceenethat would be great00:11
Siceloi did start to learn C with K&R, but never got far :(00:11
ceenei'll upload it all tomorrow00:11
ceeneand write a little bit of which places to look00:11
Siceloi'll hear from you then.00:12
ceenegood :)00:12
ceenelibwa and yappari's are probably the worst structured implementations00:13
ceeneyowsup is too much pythonistic for me00:13
ceenechat-apii is mostly fine00:13
ceeneand there's also purple implementation00:13
ceenewhich is readable00:13
ceenethere's a lot of code and i can't make sense of what I'm doing wrong right now :(00:14
ceenewell, gotta be sleeping now, good night!00:14
Sicelog'nite. sleep time for me too :)00:15
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DocScrutinizer05(whatsup apps) even while I'm no fan, I think it's a tad unfortunate when they stop to work. Isn't there info form those whatsapp folks about their protocol?08:24
DocScrutinizer05would a wireshark session help or is everything encrypted hard?08:24
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pigeonsthey use that axolotl "ratchet" system from moxie marlinspike that "text secure" uses08:57
pigeonsi dont know about the rest of the protocol, but i guess they are not interested in being open08:59
pigeonsit seems many (most?) messaging platforms aren't08:59
keriois that the same protocol used by signal09:04
pigeonsi think actual now its called libsignal instead of libaolotl09:08
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ceenepigeons is right10:01
ceenewell, of you :)10:01
ceenes/of/all of/10:01
infobotceene meant: well, all of you :)10:01
DocScrutinizer05what was my last comment on "axolotl"?10:03
ceeneabout wiresharking10:03
ceenesome people has had success before10:03
ceenei'm try to pass yowsup tests on my code10:04
ceenei'm gonna try10:04
ceenei'm a bit mishanded today10:04
ceenei also have real work to do10:04
* DocScrutinizer05 needs to sponsor mgedmin of PoV a hw upgrade for the server :/10:05
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DocScrutinizer05'search' takes *ages*10:06
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if the data is stored on a tapedrive10:06
ceeneaxolotl as a library is now extinct, as it is now called 'signal'10:07
ceenewhich is a shitty name in order to google for it10:07
DocScrutinizer05guess why h-e-n isn't hen ;-)10:09
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DocScrutinizer05alas this doen't help for google either ;-P10:11
ceenesometime ago, google lost the capability to search for special characters10:11
ceenethey think they know better than me what i'm searching for10:11
DocScrutinizer05thus long name hostmode-easy-now10:11
pigeonsgoogle used the excuse of "spam" to kill federation. Whatsapp wont release an api because "spam".10:11
pigeonsyeah when G+ started +searchterm doesnt make it mandatory anymore10:12
pigeonsbut google never was good at that, that's why you had +fravia and +orc10:13
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DocScrutinizer05google starts to suck10:16
DocScrutinizer05even more than it already did10:16
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer05: strangely, federation has never de facto stopped working for me11:12
luke-jralthough spam has been an actual problem recently11:12
luke-jrall Russian11:13
luke-jron XMPP11:13
DocScrutinizer05sorry, never heard of all that. I know what's XMPP11:13
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WizzupSo seems like suspend to ram works on mainline n90011:31
WizzupAlthough upon wakeup it prints an error, but nothing too serious11:32
WizzupThat's pretty cool. Wondering about the power usage11:32
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luke-jrWizzup: IIRC suspend to RAM uses more power than just idling11:37
luke-jr(not during suspend, but to prepare/restore from it)11:38
Wizzupluke-jr: are you saying that doing S2R for 5 hours is more taxing on power than leaving the thing idle for 5 hours?11:39
luke-jrWizzup: I'm not sure at what time S2R would use less11:40
luke-jrbut idle, N900 should last like a week or two11:40
WizzupI would expect it to last much longer on S2R?11:41
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: suspend2ram works according to freemangordon11:48
DocScrutinizer05power usage is not worth it11:48
infoboti guess power is
WizzupThat makes me deeply sad11:48
WizzupI wanted to use it as a PDA that lasts very long11:49
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DocScrutinizer05takes "ages" to enter and resume from s2r, and the power consumption is near identical to zeroclock11:49
DocScrutinizer05this is not a downside of s2r but actually shows how good zeroclock works in omap11:50
Wizzup Suspend (echo mem >/sys/power/state), wifi and GSM off. 2 mA T11:50
Wizzup Idle, no SIM, wlan off 7 mA@4.1 V T11:50
WizzupIsn't that somewhat of a big difference?11:50
DocScrutinizer05not really11:50
DocScrutinizer05well, depends on your metrics11:51
WizzupI don't think you guys get the right context11:51
WizzupI don't want to suspend my maemo phone11:51
WizzupI want to suspend my PDA and wake it up every hour or so, when I quickly need it11:51
WizzupIt'll mostly just be in super deep sleep until I buy something, or want to make a note11:51
WizzupI figured it would make sense that way11:51
DocScrutinizer05"no SIM" might actually mean an increased consumption11:51
Wizzupmodem would be off during s2r11:52
WizzupOK, let me phrase it differently11:52
Wizzupif I want a n900 that is asleep at almost all times, unless I specifically trigger a wakeup IRQ, what would be sensible?11:52
SiceloS2R :)11:53
Siceloi think they are saying whatever you use, power benefit is negligible11:53
Wizzupbut if it is two to three times - that makes a huge difference for me11:53
DocScrutinizer05shut down modem, use zeroclock or s2r (since basically they are the same thing in the end)11:54
SiceloWizzup: you're using maemo or other distro?11:54
Wizzupsounds great11:54
WizzupSicelo: I will outline my plans for this hobby proj a bit later11:54
Wizzuphopefully in a blog post, or at least here quickly11:54
WizzupI have to run to work now11:54
Wizzupwell, bike, really.11:54
ceenei hate this all11:55
DocScrutinizer05s2r just copies a few CPU sttaic cmos registers to RAM before powering down the CPU core11:55
Sicelowhat happened now ceene? she wants divorce? :)11:55
ceene*I* want a divorce11:55
ceeneit's a digital divorce11:56
ceeneso at least i won't have to share my things with this whatsapp from hell thing11:56
ceenefailed to read string token11:56
ceenefailed to read attribute key:value11:56
ceenethat's got to be because i have misimplemented WA1611:56
DocScrutinizer05(s2r) CPU in zero clock doesn't each significant amounts of power though, so it's not really relevant if you use s2r or zeroclock11:57
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: (s2r) CPU in zero clock doesn't eat significant amounts of power though, so it's not really relevant if you use s2r or zeroclock11:57
DocScrutinizer05just make sure you power down all peripherals like WLAN and cmt completely11:57
ceenei'm even thinking about rewritting the whole mess11:58
WizzupI hoped that would happen during s2r automatically11:58
Wizzupwill double check that11:58
ceenemaking a language translation from python to qt11:58
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Sicelohow about we just stick to python then? i guess it might be slower? but if that's what works, i'm sure most would live with slowness11:59
DocScrutinizer05yes, s2r supposedly takes care about it (though I know it doesn't really for cmt at least)11:59
Siceloor it's not compatible with python 2.5?11:59
ceeneand they're thiking of deprecating support for 2.7, for what I've seen on some files12:00
ceeneso only 3.012:00
ceenesooner or later12:00
DocScrutinizer05anyway take care about "No SIM" doesn't mean the modem is inactive, rather the opposite is true12:00
Wizzupceene: you could consider using py3 - maybe with pyinstaller12:01
DocScrutinizer05you should use "airplane mode" to make sure all RF got killed reliably12:01
ceeneWizzup: can we install py3 on n900?12:01
ceenei know there's python2.7 on extras-something12:01
DocScrutinizer05cmt with no SIM will prolly still scan all bands to be ready for 91112:01
Wizzupceene: not impossible12:02
ceenethis python thing however12:02
ceeneis not work free12:02
ceenethere's the need of a GUI for that12:02
Wizzupif it makes life much easier12:02
ceenei don't know...12:02
WizzupI don't know enough about the context. Also really have to run12:02
Wizzupjust wanted to say that py2.7 or 3.5should be fine with pyinstaller12:03
Wizzupir similar12:03
ceeneit's good to know12:03
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ceenei think some things could be language ported12:03
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ceenewithout a whole lot of work12:03
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ceenethis few files12:04
ceeneit'd be a nice beginning12:04
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ceenei definitely need to reestructure libwa code12:08
ceenei keep getting lost12:09
ceenei also hate all these asynchronous thingies12:09
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DocScrutinizer05async only makes sense when you know why you need it and how to put it to purpose. Otherwise async complicates stuff a lot12:23
ceenei've broken something else12:24
ceeneFailed readString 112:24
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Vajbi have new feature with whatsup. When ever i receive a photo and open it i have to kill hildon-thumbnailer after or it will drain my battery by keeping cpu maxed at 10012:41
SiceloWebdoubt it's yappari's problem :) what happens if you take a picture with the camera, or receive it some other way?12:42
Vajbwell just tried and seems to happen with gallery as well. To be honest i thought it would be like that, but felt like turning the knife ;)12:43
Vajbbut there is small difference. After i shutdown gallery processor calms12:44
Vajbwhile with whatsup received pics it just stays.12:44
Vajbhmm lemme try to take a pic12:44
Vajbno cpu peak12:45
Wizzupceene: itt would be nice if you can stick to almost all upstream code and just write some n900 specific parts around it12:45
Wizzupalso nice wrt maintenance12:45
Vajbhmm eventually it did it. So it seems i have a problem with hildon-thumbnailer12:48
Vajbit nails my cpu by its thumbs...12:48
ceeneWizzup: as of today, there's no upstream available for qt412:54
ceenethere's only libwa, and coderus doesn't maintain it anymore12:54
ceenebut using coderus' original libwa results on12:55
ceene    <not-authorized />12:55
ceene true12:55
ceeneAuth failed!12:55
ceenelogin(): failed12:55
ceeneso i don't know what is wrong right now12:55
ceenei thought it was due to old protocol version12:56
ceenebut yowsup uses 1.5 as well12:56
ceeneand doesn't fail12:56
ceeneso now i just don't know what's wrong :(12:57
ceenei keep going back and forth, but i'm lost12:58
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DocScrutinizer05Vajb: (thumbnailer-trackerd) expected behavior13:28
DocScrutinizer05Vajb: just let it finsih its indexing thing once13:29
DocScrutinizer05and make sure you have no messed up setting in trackerconfig13:29
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: hi!13:30
VajbDocScrutinizer05: i haven't changed anything in trackerconfig sinco long time and it has been working well since this week13:32
Vajbmaybe i'll leave it on charger over night and see if it is done or i have hole through table13:32
DocScrutinizer05Vajb: actually tracker indexer kicks in whenever inotifywatch detects a change in filesystem of monitored dirs13:33
VajbDocScrutinizer05: i made it only monitor my music folder and nothing has changed there13:33
DocScrutinizer05changing uSD often causes tracker to go wild for more than an hour, depending on how many files are on uSD13:33
DocScrutinizer05tracker config is a bitch, and it even has a bug in stock tracker13:34
Vajbbut could size matter? I have 64gb card mostly music13:34
DocScrutinizer05many of the trackerconfig options work in an unexpected way13:34
DocScrutinizer05oooh yes, 64GB music, your tracker will be *happy* to deal for hours with that13:35
DocScrutinizer05I even wonder if the resulting database will fir into /home/user13:35
Vajbbut they have been there for months. Why it suddenly bothers?13:35
Vajbi have over 20gb free at home since i keep everything in card13:36
DocScrutinizer05well, something made tracker start an indexing, prolly some change in some of the dirs on your uSD, maybe you saved a photo somehwre? ;-)13:36
DocScrutinizer05your /home/user hardly is 2GB size13:37
Vajbhmm can't recall that13:37
DocScrutinizer05unless you did *massive* repartitioning13:37
Vajbah sorry i mixed home and mydocs to be same thing13:37
DocScrutinizer05also aborting tracker whenever it runs will most likely cause a complete re-index next time it starts13:38
Vajbok /home 32% used13:38
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Vajbbut is hildon-thumbnailer=trackerd?13:39
Vajbi think i've seen them as separate process13:39
DocScrutinizer05so a lockup or powerdown while tracker doing a lightweight indexing for a photo snapshot or whatever invalidates the database and tracker needs to build it anew on next boot, I guess13:39
DocScrutinizer05all thumbnailers etc are trackerd afaik13:40
Vajbnow i have possible explanation!13:40
Vajbi accidentally dropped my phone this week and battery popped out13:40
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Vajbcould that be the reason?13:40
Vajbhey cn90013:41
cn900i'm ceene testing irc plugin for telepathy13:41
DocScrutinizer05also each swap of uSD card (removing lid already counts as swap) will need a cursory reindexing to make sure nothing changed13:41
cn900and it seems to work13:41
DocScrutinizer05yes, battery popout very much could be a reason for trackerd going wild13:41
Vajbok i'll let him do his thing tonight13:42
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ceeneseems quite nice that telepathy plugin13:53
ceenethe interface is quite limited, though13:53
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ceenebut that's a problem of the gui itself, not of the plugin i guess13:54
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SiceloWebtested that plugin just once, and didn't like it :)14:25
SiceloWebceene: could telepathy on N900 send/receive files? currently it doesn't, and that's one of the most unfortunate things about it14:26
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KotCzarnyvajb: just mark your music dirs as a no-go for trackerd and use alternative audio player program *wink*15:05
VajbKotCzarny: do u maybe have some specific program in mind? ;)15:07
KotCzarnyhmm, a have a few!15:07
Vajbbut no. I like what tracker does. I like to listen to less played while jogging for example15:07
KotCzarnywell, if you didnt know the program i have in mind can make a recursive playlist with one click, then you can randomize it or go totally random15:08
KotCzarnyone nice thing it can pick up where you've finished15:09
KotCzarnyso in one randomize-playlist mode you will go through ALL files exactly once even in random mode15:09
KotCzarnyi think trackerd should be fixed/rewritten anyway15:10
KotCzarnyto keep db of the last modified of the DIRS and ignore them when needed15:11
ceeneSicelo: don't know if it could... haven't looked at it15:32
ceenei assume telepathy backend would allow it15:32
ceenebut don't know for sure15:32
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VajbKotCzarny: actually, I didn't know15:45
KotCzarnyoscp has so many undocumented features15:45
Vajbjackknife of media playback :)15:45
KotCzarnykind of, and i love that sox effects finally work on n900 :)15:46
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infobot""Tracker currently has a function called tracker_memory_setrlimits() which sets the limitation of RLIMIT_AS and RLIMIT_DATA clamping it between 50% of total memory and MAXLONG (2GB on 32-bit) as an upper limit.""   Between 50% and MAXLONG of memory? WHAT THE F*CKING HELL SUCKER?!
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abc123hi, i'm trying to develop (better - learn about it) on maemo. since nokia shut down it's servers is it possible to download nokia qt sdk or qmake.exe for n900 or is it next reason to sell my n900 ?17:13
KotCzarnyi think the keyword you look for is: MADE17:14
infobotmethinks scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
ceenethere it is17:16
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abc123thanks, i will read about it17:23
KotCzarnyceene: he wants qt based sdk17:24
KotCzarnyunless he wants ANY sdk17:24
Sicelotwo d's :)17:25
infobotmadde is, like,‎17:26
KotCzarnysicelo: thx17:26
ceeneoh, that17:27
abc123are any upgrades/updates on the way ?17:28
abc123i mean to whole n90017:28
KotCzarnyour devs works day and night on mainlining n90017:29
KotCzarnythen we would have everything!17:29
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ceenetaht day will be glorious17:30
ceenestill won't have yappari though17:30
ceenedon't know wether to laugh or to cry17:31
KotCzarnyadd irc support to yappari17:31
KotCzarnyand xmpp17:31
KotCzarnyso they would have backup platforms17:31
ceenemaking yappari gui a telepathy frontend is not a bad idea at all17:31
ceenesad thing is nobody wants backup platforms, all they want is whatsapp17:32
KotCzarnyi want irc17:32
ceeneso do i... so i use irssi17:32
abc123sad thing is that using n900 in non extras-devel is almost impossible to get some things work17:33
ceenemost of the time i'm here is just screen+irssi17:33
SiceloKotCzarny: xchat?17:37
abc123is there any date when an update will be available ?17:37
Siceloof course i'm an irssi guy :&17:37
KotCzarnysicelo: naaah, ssh+epic417:37
KotCzarnyabc123: unfortunatelly it's a hobby project and they have regular jobs too17:38
KotCzarnyso we are grateful for their work no matter what17:38
KotCzarnyyou can help if you can too17:38
abc123i know but i'm just curious17:38
abc123well, my programist skills are not so great as they should be17:39
KotCzarnyand yes, extras-* fails becuase there are no testers paid for17:39
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abc123if i'd know how and where to send reports i'd make some test during normal usage17:40
KotCzarnythere is a voting interface for packages on the http17:41
SiceloWebIRC & TMO are the best bugzillas now :)17:41
abc123people there solve problems ? i would like to see some progress ;)17:42
KotCzarnyanother point of interest for you about possible os updates/work is cssu and it's variants17:42
abc123there was a time when i wanted to compile apkenv and i lost on missing lib number 324523045 which couldn't have been automatically resolved17:42
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KotCzarnygood bet is trying debian lenny/wheezy repos as deb-src17:43
abc123i'd like my n900 in one piece ;)17:43
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abc1233 linux based devices gave me an important lesson to not to mess with linux unless you have your nerves cut and have whole life to solve impossible problems17:47
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Sicelosounds like you've had bad experiences17:59
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abc123yeah, the n900 is the first and last phone with linux. with touchscreen too18:10
abc123intel galileo (gen 1) with poky, ubilinux and other debian-style, hp nx7400 with debian, n900 with maemo, all are like from hell18:13
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kerioi agree, linux sucks18:38
keriobsd is much better18:38
* enyc notices debian lts team adding armel + armhf to the wheezy-lts support18:47
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abc123can't install madde ... error occurs during postinstall.bat, tried twice, disabled firewall and nothing changed ...18:56
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abc123thanks for help, for me n900 is dead and soon i'll get back to my good old se w890i or in distant future i'll make my own mobile19:22
infoboti guess neo900 is at, or at
abc123i don't like touchscreen, i gave a try to n900 because friend got one and for him it was good,  before familiarizing i thought about as he19:25
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sixwheeledbeastif you can find one...19:34
abc123too old :)19:37
abc123but i think about e-paper display and 2x 18650 ;)19:38
abc123it's easy to find 3310 in Poland, prices may be higher now than yesterday, but acceptable19:39
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ceenei don't like telepathy-irc anymore20:53
ceeneit gets out of channels when i close its window20:53
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ceenethat's idiotic20:53
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KotCzarnyabc123: going to sell that n900?21:12
KotCzarnymaybe donate?21:12
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abc123___KotCzarny, donate ? what do you mean ?22:25
Vajbto give it free for some developer22:26
KotCzarnywhat vajb said22:27
KotCzarnypreferably to some n900 veteran dev22:28
KotCzarnybut getting interested new people into n900 is also nice idea22:28
abc123___when someone new, without knowledge and experience gets inside community he may be a little scaried about bugs ...22:29
abc123___hm, my primary n900 is fully working, i think22:29
KotCzarnyeven partially broken n900 has value as a testing platform22:30
abc123___secondary met water and is sometimes unstable and irritating ;)22:30
abc123___but aero2 (free internet in Poland) continues it's work til december, so i have to have at least one and i don't have any other phone to change22:31
Siceloyour friend gave you two N900?22:31
abc123___btw this working one was bought with plenty of accessories for about 100 PLN (circa 25$)22:32
KotCzarnykeep the accessories, donate the device22:32
abc123___no, the one broken for 20 PLN (~5$), i gave it new slider22:32
KotCzarnyanyway, nite nite22:32
* Sicelo can't make sense of abc123___ :)22:32
abc123___i'll think about donating when i get another phone ;)22:33
* Sicelo goes afk22:34
abc123___if i repair my or get to work and make diy mobile22:35
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abc123___you may not understand me because i use phone mostly for it's main purpose - calling and sending sms, i don't really need internet in phone (sometimes also in computer) and i know it's odd for 2x years old guy ;)22:48
Sicelono. that's not why.22:53
Siceloabc123___: i'd like my n900 in one piece ;)22:54
Siceloabc123___: yeah, the n900 is the first and last phone with linux. with touchscreen too22:54
Siceloand then, twist:22:55
abc123___i'd like to keep my [...] (because madde won't install on my computer)22:55
Siceloabc123___: thanks for help, for me n900 is dead and soon i'll get back to my good old se w890i or in distant future i'll make my own mobile22:55
Siceloabc123___: i don't like touchscreen, i gave a try to n900 because friend got one and for him it was good,  before familiarizing i thought about as he22:55
Siceloso yes .. i don't get it :)22:55
abc123___dead - without updates and sometimes crashing on basic usage it's not what i want22:56
abc123___ok, friend got one for himself, got another (this one met with water), i've bought this flooded and started to learn about maemo22:57
abc123___it seemed ok, so when w890i started really dying (fastport after about 8 years of usage was worn off, i've lost headphones and maybe some other functions) i thought to try n900 which was in good condition, found one and bought22:59
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