IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2016-04-15

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Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: what kind of video out port(s) are on the Neo900?10:27
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ceeneseems clear10:32
KotCzarnyafter every warning10:33
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bencohceene: it gets you banned?10:38
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keriohi, can i use yappari?10:56
KotCzarnyyes, who are we to stop you from doing it?10:58
ceenekerio: sure you can!11:00
ceenewhen you get banned you can blame then :D11:00
ceenes/blame/blame me/11:00
infobotceene meant: when you get banned you can blame me then :D11:00
ceenebencoh: yep, it seems so11:01
KotCzarnyis there yappari for macbooks?11:01
ceenedue to the protocol change11:01
ceeneeven if it exists, do not use it11:01
KotCzarnykerio has an apple product11:01
ceenedo not use anything that comes from ceene11:01
ceeneit'll break everything11:01
kerioceene: pull the package from the repos11:01
ceenecan i do that?11:02
ceenedidn't know11:02
kerioi assume so \_o_/11:02
KotCzarnyjust add a warning before connect and reupload11:02
keriojust replace yappari with /usr/bin/true11:02
kerionot the gnu coreutils version though, that one sucks11:02
ceenefalse would be better, i guess11:02
ceeneyeah, cos return 0 is too dificult to write for the gnu bunch11:02
KotCzarnymake it display picture of a kitten too!11:03
ceenedo you guys know that i have a work?11:03
kerioceene: honestly just pull the package11:03
ceenei can't spend all my time not only fixing yappari but also placing kittens11:03
kerioplacing kittens > fixing yappari11:04
KotCzarnykittens > work11:04
ceenei did this in fact, for a coworker11:04
KotCzarnypick one and redisplay on 'connect'11:04
kerio"due to changes in the whatsapp protocol, we had to choose between things to focus on; thus we decided to focus on our core purpose of displaying kittens, dropping the IM functionality"11:05
keriono but seriously remove the package from the repos11:05
ceenei'm trying11:05
ceenebut i don't think i can11:05
keriothat's insane11:05
ceenei can push another version11:05
KotCzarnyi think one cant remove package without admin help, so replacing with a warning is doable11:05
ceeneor promote it11:05
ceenewhich doesn't seem a cool thing to do right now11:06
keriois it in extras?11:06
ceeneonly on extras-devel11:06
ceenein principle nobody should use that11:06
keriojust push an empty package11:06
kerioas an upgrade11:06
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ceenei've just uploaded an empty package, 2.0.2811:27
ceeneif i get this thing to work it'll be version 3.011:27
KotCzarnyempty package without any info will get you lots of confusion11:27
ceeneall of the confused people can go and use telegram11:28
ceeneor the fuck they want11:28
ceenei may do that myself11:28
KotCzarnygo irc11:28
ceenei like irc very much11:28
ceenei've been using it for thousands of years11:28
ceeneeven before it was invented11:29
ceenewell, not so much11:29
ceenesince i knew what a computer was, almost11:29
KotCzarnythere was no irc for timex2048 :/11:29
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keriodo we have a signal client already12:03
Wizzupdo we need one12:06
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keriosignal is cool12:12
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jonwilSeems like what people are most interested in for the N900 is a client for Whatsapp (something that was in progress but is now stalled)12:15
kerioceene: have you tried talking to mark zuckerberg12:16
kerioadd him on facebook12:16
jonwilIt seems like the companies behind Whatsapp and other proprietary protocols would rather not have 3rd party open implementations floating around out there.12:18
jonwilI bet if the N900 didn't have an official Skype client and someone wrote an unofficial one, Microsoft would care12:18
jonwilMe, I dont care about Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram or anything else connected to the Zuckerberg empire12:19
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ceenekerio: and what should i tell him?12:44
kerio"yo how do i whatsapp"12:44
ceeneto pay a couple of developers to port whatsapp to n900, a device that has been out of market for nearly a decade when they're deprecating even old android phones?12:45
kerionah, just ask him to send you the specs12:45
ceeneit's not a matter of specs right now12:45
ceeneit's more or less there, with written code12:45
ceeneit's the time required to port all that existing code to my specific platform and gui12:45
ceeneright now, libwa is segfaulting on me12:46
keriooh neat12:49
KotCzarnyceene: it would be sufficient to write sample client lib for linux, with open source12:52
ceeneoh, great12:52
ceenenow i got a heisenbug12:52
ceeneif i add a qDebug() to print what parameters i'm sending, there's no more segfaulting12:53
ceeneKotCzarny: a lib doesn't get you to speak with anyone...12:53
ceenethat already exists12:53
kerioceene: leave the qDebug there12:54
jonwilI thought the plan was to use the existing pigin/libpurple WhatsApp implementation12:55
ceenena, it's segfaulting again12:56
ceenejonwil: easiest for me right now should be coderus' libwa12:56
ceeneas it's written in qt12:56
ceeneand api is similar although not equal12:56
WizzupI thought the problem with whatsapp is the fact that they keep banning you with alt implementations.12:57
ceenethey only ban us because they detect we do something different as them12:57
ceeneif we do the same, they can't know who we are12:57
WizzupExactly, that is what I am saying12:57
jonwilMaybe someone needs to cleanroom the Android version12:57
Wizzupceene: so they change their client to pad an extra byte, and then ban all others that do ot do that.12:57
Wizzupjonwil: or just don't care about it12:57
Wizzupjonwil: use ssh + some other client12:57
bencohceene: do you get a protocole version number from whatsapp at first connection attempt?12:59
bencohI guess their client has a way of knowing protocole has changed and they should upgrade12:59
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Sicelodebian packaging question ... i once built a package for maemo (irssi with perl support), and created a deb. however, that deb actually included the source files too. :p13:07
Sicelowhere did i go wrong?13:07
KotCzarnywizzup: banning on change of protocol without making sure most users upgraded would surely ban many legitimate users13:12
KotCzarnyunless they implement 'upgrade first then connect'13:12
Sicelothey do13:14
Sicelousers who suddenly cannot connect know they have to upgrade13:14
Siceloit is a rather messy system13:14
KotCzarnynope, i meant something different13:15
KotCzarnyclient that wouldnt even allow connecting after version check13:15
KotCzarnyotherwise trying to connect == ban13:15
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Siceloi understand you now13:20
ceeneand just to add insult to injury my internet went off ¬¬13:20
KotCzarnyyour isp banned you for using unauthorized device13:21
ceenena, the lights went off13:22
ceenehow is it called in english?13:22
ceenethe thingy13:22
ceenethe general switches13:22
ceenenot exactly13:23
ceeneonly a section of the distribution network13:23
ceenewe did have lights13:23
ceenebut no switches or network devices13:23
ceenei'm goona be testing libwa on the device itself13:23
ceenei'm thinking that this segfaults aren't normal13:23
ceeneand maybe are caused by scratchbox13:24
KotCzarnyceene, segv with different debug flags/code paths means bad pointers somewhere13:25
ceenethe piece of shit that is qt shouldn't segfault as much13:28
ceenei've never had so many segfaults on my simple C code13:28
KotCzarnycomplex code == bugs13:28
KotCzarnyespecially code that was modified during development13:28
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ceenethis is not libwa's fault13:34
ceeneit can't be13:34
ceenethis shit is segfaulting when entering an empty method13:34
Wizzupcalling convention issues? (doubt it)13:35
ceenemy guess is scratchbox13:36
ceeneor my scratchbox installation13:36
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OksanaaMussorgsky album art lookup is not working. Well, restart might cure that...15:06
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OksanaaSearching (album + artist):
OksanaaCan't find URL in results15:15
OksanaaNo image results returned15:16
OksanaaMussorgsky ^ Not finding album art15:16
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OksanaaAnd, bibisco is pre-compiled for linux32, but apparently not for armel (doesn't work out of the box, in short).15:18
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DocScrutinizer05ceene: ask council resp repo maintainer ( merlin1991) to lock or delete yappari if that is what you want15:58
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* stryngs calculates the Traveling Salesman algorithm via his n900...16:03
KotCzarnyisnt there a solution on google already?16:04
stryngsStill worth 1 Mil16:05
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bencohthere is a marble plugin but I don't think it's compiled for n90016:15
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ceeneok, this code seems to work on n900 without segfault16:25
DocScrutinizer05ceene: do you still need to lock yappari repo?16:34
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: no, that's okay16:39
ceenei uploaded an empty package16:39
ceeneand i've made it very very explicit that no one should use yappari16:39
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DocScrutinizer05ok, so you don't need repo admin action16:55
DocScrutinizer05one off my todo list :-)16:56
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KotCzarnyramose: why don't you use already working one?18:39
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sixwheeledbeastCould do with getting email working on my stable N900 again within the week or so. Any other email clients available that will work?18:51
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DocScrutinizer05umm, istn't there a lot of them, like claws etc?19:03
* Sicelo uses it 90% of the time on N90019:04
sixwheeledbeastfirefox o.O19:05
KotCzarnyswb: if you have webmail option, there are webmails that arent heavy on js19:05
KotCzarnywhich means they probably work with microb too19:05
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KotCzarnyand yeah, mutt/pine/alpine19:06
sixwheeledbeastI would be happy with modest if it still worked on stable. Although I don't know what is actually broken. It's for work so no web mail option.19:06
KotCzarnystable might have deprecated/banned certs19:06
Sicelosixwheeledbeast: work? exchange? or IMAP/POP?19:07
sixwheeledbeastSicelo: I am guessing POP but I don't know yet, only they are giving If-fones to everyone for company email19:10
sixwheeledbeastif it's certs then another client may not solve the issue then, hm19:11
Sicelotry it :)19:11
Siceloalso test with openssl s_client19:12
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ceeneargh, i have so many things to do20:46
ceenei made a port of openssl1.0.220:46
KotCzarnywatch some kittens, it will ease the pain, watch them20:46
ceenei've finished watching today The night manager20:47
ceeneno kittens but spies, which are cool in their own way20:47
KotCzarnythe night kittehs20:47
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ceenei have a cat myself, nowadays she lets me sleep20:47
KotCzarnymust be getting old20:47
ceeneno, she goes to purrrrrr over my gf20:48
ceeneand i can sleep, but she can't20:48
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KotCzarnya decoy!20:48
Sicelotalking about cats:20:49
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DocScrutinizer05"... just seconds before the crash" ;-P20:55
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ceenelibqt4-core (>= 1:4.7.4~git20110505)21:30
ceenewhere is that?21:30
ceenein which repo?21:30
ceeneforget it21:30
ceenethis is incredible, i am the sole maintainer of yappari and can't find a .deb i can install on this scratchbox installation21:31
KotCzarny#tooDrunkToCode ?21:31
ceenenot yet21:32
KotCzarnyahm, the %% peak incoming21:32
ceenethere's truloy an xkcd for everything21:34
KotCzarnyand of course:
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ceeneEres un gato!21:40
ceenethat's what I tell my cat21:40
ceenea lot, to be honest21:40
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tissi am trying to flash emmc on n90021:46
infobotfrom memory, maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline21:46
tissbut the flasher doesnt start, here's paste from console
KotCzarnyold flasher21:48
KotCzarnygrab 3.521:48
KotCzarnyin the link above21:48
tissi have 3.521:52
KotCzarnyflasher v2.5.2 (Sep 24 2009)21:52
KotCzarnywhy does it say 2.5.2 then?21:52
tissmaemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb to be exact21:53
KotCzarnytry another usb port?21:54
KotCzarnyor cable? or os?21:54
KotCzarnybtw. is it in bootloop?21:55
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tissyes it is21:56
KotCzarnylow battery maybe?21:57
tisswell, i tried flashing the COMBINED image firsst and it works21:57
KotCzarnytry booting rescueos and charge it using the script21:57
tissmaybe i'll try it after its flashed21:57
KotCzarnybut if it has enough battery still just use the script from factoid infobot said21:58
tisshey it works now21:59
tissboot sure is taking its time....22:01
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Siceloyes, 1st boot does22:02
tisshey what do you know, it actually didn't freeze22:02
tisswho woulda thought22:02
KotCzarnyi guess you know about cssu?22:04
tissyeah sure but its been *years* since i last messed around with n90022:04
tissis still relevant?22:05
tissi mean the whole article22:05
KotCzarnyyou might be interested in cssu-thumb if you like nice tricks22:05
KotCzarnynah, the article isnt authoritative22:05
KotCzarnybut some tips are ok22:05
DocScrutinizer05never really was22:05
DocScrutinizer05one man's perfect setup is another man's WTF of the week22:06
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tissi remember trying to use swappolube and slight OC to make the device more smooth22:06
tissso is this cssu-thumb the real deal?22:07
tissi mean swappolube didn't do much for me at least22:07
KotCzarnyyup, few megs of ram more to play22:07
KotCzarnybut should be treated as 'testing'22:07
tissyeah i dont understand the technicalities of it but i'll give it a shot22:08
DocScrutinizer05cssu-thumb is *one* way to go ahead, though this particular one has some intrications you should be aware of22:08
DocScrutinizer05for sure not recommended for 'noobs'22:08
tissyeah like it cant run normal stuff right?22:08
KotCzarnyyou can22:08
DocScrutinizer05it can run normal stuff, but you can't run the whole system on a stock kernel22:08
tissyeah i know its not for noobs but i never listen to that kind of warnings22:09
DocScrutinizer05which has quite nasty little implications to watch out for, during backup/restore and reflashing22:09
KotCzarnytiss: but if you just flashed its the perfect time to try it out22:09
tisswhats that about implications22:10
KotCzarnyas long you flash thumb enabled kernel you are fine22:10
KotCzarnywhich means either cssu kernel or powerkernel22:10
KotCzarnyjust not the stock one22:10
tissso first things first22:11
KotCzarny1/ install cssu22:11
KotCzarny2/ go cssu-thumb22:11
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KotCzarnybut going straight to 2 might work too22:11
DocScrutinizer05for example you reflash your device to recover from a broken kernel or whatever. Now you hope you can use the apps that were not touched by the COMBINEd replash in /home. You can't since they might be thumb binaries which give you an unbootable system22:11
DocScrutinizer05COMBINED reflash*22:11
infobotcssu-thumb is probably <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or, or
tissnow just hole up22:12
DocScrutinizer05you're maybe better off with:22:12
infobotjrtools is probably
tissso if i install thumb then reflashing may be difficult?22:13
DocScrutinizer05for first steps22:13
KotCzarnytiss: nope22:13
KotCzarnyreflash always works22:13
DocScrutinizer05than with this 'perfect setup'22:13
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KotCzarnyhe was talking about this scenario: cssu-thumb -> backup menu backup -> reflash with stock -> backup menu restore will fail22:14
tissah alright now i get it22:14
DocScrutinizer05tiss: yes, exactly. reflashing is rather a sure way to get a broken system, after you went to cssu-thumb22:14
tisswait now i dont get it again22:14
KotCzarnybut if you flash thumb enabled kernel as a first thing after reflash its ok22:14
DocScrutinizer05you can reflash your complete system and thus return to stock maemo. reflashing only COMBINED will break a thumb system22:15
tissyeah i can live with that22:15
DocScrutinizer05anyway you can go stock/CSSU -> thumb any time. So no hurries and no complications in an early stage of making friends with maemo (again)22:16
DocScrutinizer05is what I'd recommend22:16
DocScrutinizer05IOW you don't need thumb to be happy with your N90022:17
tisswell i go ham and go ahead with the thumb thing22:17
DocScrutinizer05it's not a decision you need to do on day122:17
DocScrutinizer05I *strongly* suggest to first go for cssu-testing or even cssu-stable first and then use this setup for a few weeks before you go thumb22:18
tissi always went with stable before22:18
DocScrutinizer05there's enough to tweak and customize before you might consider using thimb to tune your device a bit more22:18
DocScrutinizer05let me put it this way: when you buy a new car, it's not the N2O injection you retrofit first22:19
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tissanyway is there a noticeable difference in using thumb vs normal cssu22:23
KotCzarnyyes, as i said, more free ram22:23
tissis it hecking snappy as heck then?22:23
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KotCzarny256M gets eaten by preloaded things quite wholly22:24
tissso you'll be able to open more windows at once then22:24
tissthats basically what its about then?22:25
KotCzarnydiska space/ram22:25
KotCzarnybut if you start opening windows it will go into swappyland anyway22:25
KotCzarnystill, having 10-20M of free ram doesnt hurt, right?22:26
tissim inclined to answer "right"22:26
KotCzarnyalso, disabling few things that you dont use in the system also helps22:27
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tissi guess i'll go with testing or the time being, seeing its got the lastest updates and all22:28
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DocScrutinizer05tiss: no, the thumb advantages are noticeable but not fundamental22:31
KotCzarnytiss: this is my version of 'perfect' setup:
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't notice any difference between CSSU-testing and CSSU-thumb, except for an occasional speed advantage22:32
DocScrutinizer05the device will enter swap hell a tad later, thanks to thumb binaries being smaller and thus eating less RAM22:33
DocScrutinizer05so basically thumb is like adding another 25% of RAM22:34
DocScrutinizer05loading executables from flash might also speed up slightly since you got less data to read in22:34
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tisswell heck22:36
tissmaybe ill toss a coin22:36
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tissheads for testing tails for thumbing22:36
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DocScrutinizer05you should NOT go for thumb right away. You can do this any time later22:36
tisswell i got heads anyway22:36
KotCzarnyyou will be able to compare memory/speed then when you decide going thumb22:37
Siceloi didn't see much difference myself, but then, my N900 has 5 year-old cruft. otoh, i do think thumb is worth it22:38
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KotCzarnyyup, we would get much more if we could disable parts of the os22:39
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if BM could simply save the needed files, and trigger a dpkg -i $recent_kernel_package after restore22:39
KotCzarnyits nice to have mail client preloaded, but what if one never used/uses it? 10M eaten senselessly22:40
tissithats a lot of libqtm packages22:40
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: thumb is worth it for sure (though I don't use it simply because of what I mentioned above) - however it's _not_ recommended for day122:41
Siceloof course. agreed22:41
Sicelotissi doesn't sound too new otoh. not saying he must :)22:42
DocScrutinizer05well, he's dealing with "
tissiyeah i had this device for years22:43
tissinever became much of a pro though22:43
tissin900 headphone jack crapped out on me so i returned to this device22:43
KotCzarnyoh, audio user?22:43
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KotCzarnymight i interest you in my audio player for n900?22:44
tissimore like audio listener22:44
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infobotflashing-cmdline is, like,
tissiim aware of oscp if thats where you're going22:44
KotCzarnyyes, what do you think of it?22:44
tissimaybe its because prior to flashing n900 just now everything was all over the place and not working quite right22:45
tissiso oscp also didnt function perfectly22:45
tissiplayback would stop after track finishes22:45
tissiso i had to manually select next track every time22:45
tissii think i told you of this issue earlier22:45
KotCzarnywhich version?22:46
tissidonatello / salamisami if you remember22:46
KotCzarnyi think i was fixing it at some point22:46
tissiim pretty sure it was the latest22:46
tissiwell not 100% sure but anyway22:46
tissii ended up deciding to flash the thing actually because for some reason the n900 would freeze and reboot itself after a while of playing music22:46
KotCzarnycould be also that i've fixed it on pc and forgot to make a package22:47
tissiim not sure if i had the latest version22:48
KotCzarnydefinitely i should make a package22:48
tissior maybe i did heck i dont remember when i last used oscp22:48
KotCzarnyi moved my audio playing tasks from n900 to banana pi last year22:49
DocScrutinizer05for those who didn't notice:
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: congrats and kusos22:49
DocScrutinizer05kudos even22:49
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tissianyone got any wack ass boot videos?22:57
tissisomething really obnoxiously "h4ck3r" would be swell22:58
SiceloDon't Panic22:58
tissior alternatively something like drake's hotline bling22:58
Sicelobut most of us remove it completely22:58
DocScrutinizer05tissi: DONT PANIC!22:59
infobothmm... jrtools is
tissi rofl22:59
DocScrutinizer05(dont panic) I *think* somebody even packaged it23:00
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DocScrutinizer05tissi: you should bookmark
tissiwell i settled with just disabling the hands video23:05
tissifor now23:06
tissizx tape loader was cool but 24 seconds? come on23:06
* DocScrutinizer05 had DONT PANIC even on GTA02 :-)23:07
DocScrutinizer05bootloader splashscreen23:07
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tissiso which kernel do i install now23:25
tissiwont be going for thumb yet23:25
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tissi this one best?23:27
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DocScrutinizer05you don't want to install the overclocking stuff (UI)23:31
tissinah i've done it before had no problems with it23:36
tissimy device can certainly handle 720mhz just fine23:36
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DocScrutinizer05yes, it can23:40
DocScrutinizer05just it's basically useless23:40
tissihow so?23:41
tissiwell how about 850?23:41
tissibtw isnt it just fine to set the min clock to 125 s well23:41
tissisince it'll automatically scale and all or what?23:42
DocScrutinizer05it's a known fact that speed improvements in UIs only get really noticed when in the range of factor 2 or higher, and a factor 1.2 is probably not even noticeable when you tell the tester that there is some speed difference they should look for23:43
DocScrutinizer05125 is considered instable, and you don't really need it anywaqy since maemo has a run-to-idle general approach23:44
tissiokay okay23:45
DocScrutinizer05you best don't assume Nokia had a funny idea of arbitrarily limiting the performance of the device without reason23:45
tissibut undervolting is still smart?23:45
tissididn't some samsung phone basically have the identical cpu as n90023:45
tissibut clocked higher to 800-something23:46
DocScrutinizer05there are lots of devices that "have the same CPU *basically*"23:46
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DocScrutinizer05TI procuses lots of chip flavors, and they get even binned after production23:46
DocScrutinizer05Nokia for sure didn't buy same binning of the SoC like Samsung did23:47
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tissistill, undervolting = good and smart as advised by
tissifor sure its fine23:48
tissiless voltage could never hurt things23:49
tissiyeah i'll go ahead and do that23:49
DocScrutinizer05Nokia just might have ordered another operation-time-to-failure than Samsung, since they want their devices to live longer or shorter than Samsung23:49
DocScrutinizer05undervolting is just begging for less stability23:50
tissioh looks like its already enabled by default by the power kernel v5323:50
tissiat least both the smartreflex vdd values are already 123:50
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keriosmartreflex is not undervolting23:53
DocScrutinizer05N900 doesn't need user configuration of basic system parameters. It's supposed to ship with proven good values, either in stock kernel (takes care of some more fringe cases) or in powerkernel which got tested by a lot of people and has a setting considered optimized as long as you're not a hardcore hacker trying to test some new leete fringe case23:53
DocScrutinizer05smartreflex been tagged "non-stable" by Nokia and TI devels in the N900 prototypes. Maybe meanwhile it usually works on the newer silicon in series devices23:54
infobot[SmartReflex] >>Again, TI and we [Nokia] couldn't fix SmartReflex - we say memory corruption in front of our own eyes with that enabled, so we had to ship that disabled.<<23:55
tissihey by the btw way is there still any browser nicer than the default nokia web browser?23:56
Sicelo009Nceene has found Midori through Easy Debian to work very well for his needs23:57
Sicelo009Ni still use MicroB. others prefer Opera Mini (I removed it)23:58
tissiwhat about that one23:58
tissilooked like microb23:58
tissibut was new23:58
tissicant remember the name23:58
Sicelo009Nqml-browser? no comment .. didn't work well for me23:59

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