IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2015-11-06

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* Oksana is trying out redshift:
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OksanaThis one is better:
OksanaBetter, as in, available. Still, incompatible... Whyever?07:47
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OksanaAlright, dpkg -i did it. Probably strange app category; like system instead of user/*07:56
OksanaThis one is here:
OksanaAnd, what's up with downgraded libxcb-randr0 ?08:05
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klopsi-u3 hi jonwil08:45
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freemangordonjonwil: pong09:21
jonwilI have done all of the parts of libcodelockui I can do at this point. Still need your help with codelock_response_signal, clui_code_dialog_set_input_sensitive, clui_code_dialog_create_number_button and clui_code_dialog_build (and a general check over what I have done to make sure I didn't make any rookie mistakes like I did with osso-systemui-alarm)09:23
jonwiland yes I did look at the x86 code and no it didn't help with those 4 functions09:24
freemangordonjonwil: ok, will try to find some time during the weekend to see what I can do09:24
jonwilok, no worries09:24
jonwilits not like there is any great hurry to have a clone of codelockui :)09:25
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jonwilNot sure what to work on next though09:29
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freemangordonthere are another systemui plugins, ain't?09:31
jonwilosso-systemui-devlock might be a worthwhile target09:32
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jonwilalthough I am not sure exactly what having clones of these systemui things lets us do that we cant otherwise do09:35
jonwilcodelockui is useful because we can do portrait ui for it that doesn't screw up09:35
jonwilbut systemui less so09:35
jonwilunless there is some benefit to having all of systemui cloned that I am not seeing09:36
freemangordonmigrating to gtk309:37
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jonwilwe need a lot more than just systemui to get us to GTK309:38
freemangordonsure, but avery small steps brings us closer09:38
freemangordonshit. STEP09:38
* freemangordon is still having his first coffee for the day09:39
jonwilbut if the big steps that remain are so big as to be as-good-as-impossible then the small steps dont mean a thing09:39
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freemangordonthat looks promising09:40
jonwilwhat looks promising?09:40
freemangordonoops :D09:41
jonwiland by big steps I mean things like rtcom-call-ui, rtcom-messaging-ui, browser etc09:42
jonwilIf replacing the big pieces is too hard, then any work on the little pieces gets us no closer to gtk3 in the grand scheme of things09:42
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freemangordonI know, but those are not parts of core OS09:43
jonwilsystemui isn't really technically either09:43
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* freemangordon wishes to have enough free time to work on browser replacement09:43
freemangordonjonwil: I think it is09:43
klopsi-u3what browser would come into question as a replacement?09:44
jonwilMaybe my next mission could be to pull apart the browser and document all the things necessary in terms of replacing it09:44
freemangordonklopsi-u3: maybe netsurf09:45
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freemangordongecko has become too monstrous to continue to use it09:46
bencohwhen you say "gtk3", you mean replacing gtk2 with gtk3 and porting every gtk app in the base system if needed?09:46
freemangordon(in terms of memory usage)09:46
freemangordonbencoh: yeah09:46
freemangordonand afaik gtk2 and gtk3 can coexist09:47
bencohregarding the web browser, I wonder if would do09:47
KotCzarnyyeah, but having both gtk2 and 3 apps eats more memory09:47
bencohKotCzarny: exactly09:47
freemangordonI know09:47
jonwilWould we keep the old browser around for09:47
freemangordonbencoh: this is webkit based?09:47
bencoh(like with qt; just a bit less)09:48
bencohfreemangordon: yup09:48
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freemangordon"our" webkit is too old and slow to be a viable replaceent09:48
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bencohit's gles/efl based09:48
KotCzarnygtk3 is nice because of touch enhancements09:48
KotCzarny(scrolled windows and stuff)09:48
jonwilIf we replaced the browser what would we do about rtcom-messaging-ui?09:48
jonwilwhich uses the browser engine09:48
KotCzarnyi mean kinetic scrolled09:48
bencohjonwil: rewrite it with something else I guess09:48
freemangordonit uses it through a shim09:48
freemangordongtkmozembed or somesuch, which is foss09:49
freemangordonis there a dialer application in nemo?09:50
jonwilactually rtcom-messaging-api uses tablet-browser-view and brwoser-neteal to talk to the browser engine09:50
bencohfreemangordon: I think there are two (the old one and the new one)09:51
jonwilso rtcom-messaging-api talks to an instance of browserd09:51
freemangordonjonwil: still the same, rtcom-messageing-ui just embeds a browser engine wrapper and makes it navigate to your emessages09:52
jonwilyeah it communicates to browserd over dbus09:52
jonwilalso what do we do about Flash on any new browser?09:53
jonwilOr is the answer "we dont care anymore"?09:53
freemangordonyes, we don;t care09:53
freemangordonalso, nothing stops you from having microd still there09:53
jonwilI for one dont think I have ever intentionally visited a site on my N900 that used Flash for anything important09:53
freemangordonjonwil: besides youtube, back in the days it used to work09:54
jonwilNever visited YT on the N900 at all09:54
* freemangordon did09:54
jonwilA new browser can use the non-Flash HTML5 version of YouTube09:54
jonwiljust like I get on my desktop09:54
freemangordonI have some experience with gecko's gst pipeline ;)09:55
freemangordonBTW netsurf is a nughtmare to build09:56
jonwilWorse than trying to build Gecko on a Windows PC?09:57
freemangordonnever tried but I guess09:57
jonwilthere are a few things that a new browser should copy from microb09:58
klopsi-u3swiping pages with finger09:59
jonwillike the ability to bring up the phone dialer when you press on a phone number link (if its been made properly on the web site)09:59
klopsi-u3i don't need that but nice09:59
sixwheeledbeast^is QML browser not worth giving some love?09:59
freemangordonjonwil: that shouldn;t be hard to implement10:00
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast^: imo no, as the underlying engine doesn't worth it10:00
sixwheeledbeast^ok, I am only thinking from a time/code saving POV10:01
jonwilwhilst it would be great to have a new browser for the N900, I think that such an effort is going to be a medium-term or long-term thing10:02
jonwilIn the short term it would be useful to update the security stuff in the existing browser so it works with modern websites and doesn't leave people vulnerable to exploits and security flaws10:03
sixwheeledbeast^i am not even sure what engine it uses, webkit?10:03
KotCzarnynot many exploits target arm-linux browsers10:05
KotCzarnymostly xss10:05
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast^: which browser?10:05
sixwheeledbeast^:nod: just done a browser check.10:06
jonwilNot so much exploits in the browsers10:08
jonwilbut all the various SSL/TLS exploits that work on any vulnerable browser10:08
jonwiland can be used for MITM attacks etc10:08
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jonwiland also the need to update the security so it supports standards it doesn't currently support (like TLS1.2) that some websites are now requiring10:10
jonwilthe security stuff in microb is the Gecko NSS library10:10
jonwilso we would need to somehow do things to that to make it work :)10:11
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bencohwhat I dont understand is how rendering is done with tablet-ui/browser/browserd in microb10:17
bencohdoes browserd render to a memory buffer and UI displays it?10:18
jonwilno, browserd renders to a GTK object of some sort10:20
bencohand ... object is passed through dbus? oO10:22
bencohor is there some sharedmem mechanism?10:23
jonwilI believe it passes an xid10:23
bencohmakes sense10:23
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jonwil has the gory details if you care :)10:23
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jonwilits using a GtkPlug and a GtkSocket whatever those are10:24
freemangordonhmm, iirc gtk has API to embed one process' window into another process window10:24
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jonwilyeah I see now on the GTK docs what those 2 are for10:25
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jonwilmerlin1991: ping13:24
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bencohhas anyone ever had only one non-working headphone output side?14:04
Wizzupyou sure it's not your HP/plug?14:05
WizzupI've had issues with the HP, yes. Opened it up a few times to fix it14:05
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bencohWizzup: headphones plug or n900 plug ?14:14
bencohit could be my headphones, I dont know yet (I'm on the go)14:15
WizzupHP uncountably many times14:15
Wizzupn900 as few times14:15
Wizzupa few times*14:15
bencohhow did you fix n900?14:15
Wizzupopen it, and pushed something a bit back14:15
Wizzupiirc it just didn't make contact14:15
bencohthe springs?14:16
bencoh(headphone detection works properly, and I have one working side)14:17
WizzupI have had that often14:18
Wizzupusually a HP problem14:18
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KotCzarnybencoh, find someone with headphones and test14:19
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WizzupAnd then grab a soldering iron14:19
KotCzarnyor test headphones with someones device14:20
KotCzarnythat would also provide some info14:20
bencohKotCzarny: yeah, I just dont have either right now14:20
Wizzup``hey baby, can I plug in my headphone plug for a bit''14:20
Wizzup``can you put on some music?''14:21
Wizzupsokay ... orry ;)14:21
Wizzupokay .... sorry*14:21
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KotCzarnyyou will never know if you dont ask, right?14:22
Vajbbencoh: just go by "hey baby can i put my jack into your socket"14:27
Vajbmaybe to add my 3.5mm jack :)14:28
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KotCzarnyhey baby, my plug is not working correctly, would you like to help me out?14:29
Vajbcould work too!14:30
* jonwil has run out of things to reverse engineer14:46
KotCzarnyjonwil, reverse cmt-speech14:47
jonwilnot gonna happen :)14:47
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klopsi-u3  jonwil are you doing that for neo900?14:50
jonwildoing what? Reverse engineering?14:51
jonwilI am not specifically doing reverse engineering for Neo90014:51
jonwilI am just reverse engineering parts of the N900 system that have some value in being reverse engineered14:51
jonwilor that are interesting to reverse engineer14:51
klopsi-u3 cool14:51
jonwilbut its getting to the point where all the interesting or useful things are too complex to reverse engineer14:52
jonwilhence my claim that I am out of things to do14:53
klopsi-u3What things need replacement for security purposes14:55
klopsi-u3i have a newly flashed pr1.3 i think14:55
jonwilInstalling CSSU is the best way to go for security things14:56
jonwilThat's the best you can get as far as a "security update"14:56
zGrrneo900 is going to be quite expensive. around 1k€ if i remember correctly, right?14:57
klopsi-u3i saw that number also14:59
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zGrrdid you actually consider possibility of porting maemo to any of countless shenzen smartphones? would it actually make any sense?15:04
Vajbit would not IMO. They still lack hw kbd no matter of OS.15:08
KotCzarnywell, why did chines did not put linux on them in the first place?15:10
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KotCzarnyoh, i know, ti licence price :P15:10
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zGrrVajb:  don't get me wrong, i'd love to have a hw kbd, but i see the keyboard as least of a problem.15:17
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zGrrKotCzarny:  did they? i've never heard of it.15:17
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KotCzarnysee 'did not'15:18
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zGrrKotCzarny:  right, i see. it was a question. :)15:23
zGrrKotCzarny:  it's a complex question.15:24
zGrrKotCzarny:  maybe they simply didn't know, they could come here and ask to port linux to run on their handsets?15:27
zGrrKotCzarny:  but even if they did, it might not be that easy because they don't control some key smartphone components.15:28
VajbzGrr: it's about personal taste i think :) Hw kbd was the main thing for me when i decided to buy n90015:35
zGrrVajb:  main thing was linux. if the keyboard was main thing, you'd be fine with droid4, blackberry or something like that.15:37
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klopsi-u3both are needed to be good15:40
klopsi-u3you could say 'main thing on this car is the diesel engine'15:40
klopsi-u3but you still need a steering wheel15:40
VajbzGrr: That is possible, but in finnish market there wasn't any droid phone with kbd. Even Jolla has no kbd.15:41
Vajbmy previous phone was e90. So maybe you understand my fuss over kbd :)15:42
zGrrVajb:  i understand. i still use n900 as my primary phone. hw kbd plays major factor, but the primary thing is, there is no other phone on the market that could functionally replace it.15:44
Vajbwell to be honest nowadays there are other reasons to use n900, but kbd was first back then.15:47
Vajbi like the way the stuff just works15:47
klopsi-u3i had to reflash twice recently15:51
KotCzarnyfor me major factor is that i can easily write apps for it15:53
Vajblucky you :)15:53
KotCzarnyyou can too15:54
KotCzarnypygtk etc15:54
Vajbi could also, but im too busy to start learning code.15:54
Vajbi've planned, but haven't got time so, meh15:54
KotCzarnybest way is just having a target (ie. you need something)15:54
KotCzarnythen learning comes as a bonus15:55
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Vajblike, i want to remove one feature ;)15:58
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zGrr... and there is easydebian for n90016:06
KotCzarnyonly chroot16:08
KotCzarnynot native16:08
drathiralarm rulez ^^16:09
Sicelodebian runs fine native on n90016:09
KotCzarnywith gsm voice?16:09
Siceloas well as other distros16:09
drathiralarm modem only supporting if nothin changed...16:10
SiceloKotCzarny: i have always thought voice was not available. now it is completely supported. got confirmation few days ago16:10
KotCzarnynow THAT's news16:10
drathirSicelo: You jokin right ? ^^16:11
Sicelobencoh has more faith than i do16:11
Sicelono. not joking16:11
Sicelo .. all is there.16:11
Sicelojust make UI and roll16:11
KotCzarnynow we just need flashable image16:11
drathirSicelo: thats great news !!!16:11
Siceloof course won't have 3d accel ever16:12
drathirXFCE4 WORKIN GREAT...16:12
drathirsry caps ;/16:12
VajbKotCzarny: now you have problem and you can learn ;)16:12
drathirits not android which need 4+cores and acceleration to workin... ;p16:13
Sicelodrathir: e17 was good too last i tested16:13
KotCzarnyremember linux ran on 386 with 4M of ram16:17
Siceloof course xfce/lxde are great in that they are more mainstream (so you get lots of plugins/features than e17), but still light16:17
KotCzarnyfluxbox might be too hardcore16:17
* Sicelo will check if there's a way to contact skry16:20
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Siceloah .. seems he's at least aware about recent developments16:31
zGrrKotCzarny:  i bought pentium 500 mmx (geode lx on alix) last year.16:31
KotCzarnyzgrr: wanna run oscp on it?16:39
zGrrnot yet16:40
KotCzarnyi run it on 400mz vx machine16:49
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untouchablehi all16:58
untouchablei am trying reflash nokia n900 need the filesplease16:58
untouchablebeen trying for days16:58
KotCzarnybot is away16:59
infobot[maemo-flashing], or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh16:59
infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss16:59
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untouchablei have been there all the links not avalible any more17:00
KotCzarnygrab the script, run it17:00
KotCzarnynothing else needed17:01
untouchablewhich one17:01
untouchablethe first one17:01
untouchablehow to run it please17:01
untouchablenokia n900 now saying image needed17:02
KotCzarnyunpack archive17:02
KotCzarnyyou know *nix cmdline basics?17:02
untouchablei know nothing i just followed instruction downloadind this and that from maemo and nothing working17:03
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KotCzarnyok, download the script17:04
KotCzarnyon pc17:04
KotCzarnyunpack with tar -xzf file.tar.gz17:04
KotCzarnyenter unpacked dir, run the script inside17:04
KotCzarnydont rememember the name17:04
untouchableopen the script with what command please17:05
untouchableits not a zip17:06
KotCzarny1/ download script17:06
KotCzarny2/ unpack with: tar -xzf filename17:06
KotCzarny3/ enter unpacked dir17:06
KotCzarny4/ run: ./scriptname (dont remember the name)17:07
untouchableit just saying maemo my private work17:08
untouchableso my nokia n900 broken now right???17:09
untouchableitd done17:09
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nokiaits me again17:15
nokianow any one to help me please17:15
nokiai have nokia n900 and now saying no image after i tried to download flasher and the 2 files as instructed and nothing is working17:16
nokiawhen nokia n900 start the screen message comes as no image!17:17
KotCzarnythe script is not firmware, you have to run it to download firmware and flash17:17
nokiai hear you buddy but non of the links is working17:17
nokiahow to run this script you adviced?17:18
nokiai am using window XP17:18
KotCzarnyjust checked, its working17:18
KotCzarnyits for linux pc17:18
nokiacould you please instruct me of how to run this script please when i download it my deskto came as open with what?17:19
nokiaso not for windows17:19
nokiaalright so no advice17:21
KotCzarnyjust google17:21
nokiathanks you17:21
KotCzarnythere are some mirrors still active17:21
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nokiai have been googling for days so why maemo not having active up to date links17:22
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KotCzarnybecause of nokia17:22
infobotit has been said that firmware is please see ~combined ~emmc ~flasher17:24
infobotfrom memory, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or
KotCzarnygrab this one17:25
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maria2ultra que19:41
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KotCzarnyultra super hi premium19:50
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buZzis there some filemanager for maemo that does scp?20:33
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ceenebuZz: mc, midnight commander20:55
buZzhmmm good point! ty20:56
ceeneis a terminal (ncurses) application20:56
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sixwheeledbeast^would you not use scp in a terminal?21:53
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MaxdamantusIf you want something like a file manager, just use a normal filemanager on a sshfs (sftp) mountpoint.22:34
Maxdamantus(I'm not sure scp itself is suitable for file management btw—you'd probably want to use sftp)22:53
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Siceloyes, saw that yesterday. on the other hand, Google blames device manufacturers for almost all insecurities. they tested the SGS6 and found many weaknesses23:12
KotCzarnymain problem is that devices cant be upgraded by user23:12
KotCzarnyie. manufacturer moves on, support is 023:13
SiceloSGS6 is current flagship23:13
KotCzarnyyeah, but im talking about older devices23:14
KotCzarnyand non-googlish23:14
KotCzarnywithout root user cant even try to replace system things23:14
KotCzarnyand even then..23:14
KotCzarnyin that matter even n900 is better23:16
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