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| * Oksana is trying out redshift: http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libx/libxxf86vm/libxxf86vm1_1.1.0-2+squeeze1_armel.deb http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/pool/main/r/redshift/redshift_1.2-3_armel.deb | 07:35 | |
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| Oksana | This one is better: http://dtp.archive.or.id/debian-security/pool/updates/main/libx/libxxf86vm/libxxf86vm1_1.1.0-2+squeeze1_armel.deb | 07:44 |
| Oksana | Better, as in, available. Still, incompatible... Whyever? | 07:47 |
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| Oksana | Alright, dpkg -i did it. Probably strange app category; like system instead of user/* | 07:56 |
| Oksana | This one is here: ftp://ftp.debian.ikoula.com/debian-archive/pool/main/r/redshift/redshift_1.2-3_armel.deb | 08:05 |
| Oksana | And, what's up with downgraded libxcb-randr0 ? | 08:05 |
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| jonwil | hi | 08:39 |
| klopsi-u3 | hi jonwil | 08:45 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: pong | 09:21 |
| jonwil | I have done all of the parts of libcodelockui I can do at this point. Still need your help with codelock_response_signal, clui_code_dialog_set_input_sensitive, clui_code_dialog_create_number_button and clui_code_dialog_build (and a general check over what I have done to make sure I didn't make any rookie mistakes like I did with osso-systemui-alarm) | 09:23 |
| jonwil | and yes I did look at the x86 code and no it didn't help with those 4 functions | 09:24 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: ok, will try to find some time during the weekend to see what I can do | 09:24 |
| jonwil | ok, no worries | 09:24 |
| jonwil | its not like there is any great hurry to have a clone of codelockui :) | 09:25 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 09:25 |
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| jonwil | Not sure what to work on next though | 09:29 |
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| freemangordon | there are another systemui plugins, ain't? | 09:31 |
| jonwil | osso-systemui-devlock might be a worthwhile target | 09:32 |
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| jonwil | although I am not sure exactly what having clones of these systemui things lets us do that we cant otherwise do | 09:35 |
| jonwil | codelockui is useful because we can do portrait ui for it that doesn't screw up | 09:35 |
| jonwil | but systemui less so | 09:35 |
| jonwil | unless there is some benefit to having all of systemui cloned that I am not seeing | 09:36 |
| freemangordon | migrating to gtk3 | 09:37 |
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| jonwil | we need a lot more than just systemui to get us to GTK3 | 09:38 |
| freemangordon | sure, but avery small steps brings us closer | 09:38 |
| freemangordon | *every | 09:38 |
| freemangordon | shit. STEP | 09:38 |
| * freemangordon is still having his first coffee for the day | 09:39 | |
| jonwil | but if the big steps that remain are so big as to be as-good-as-impossible then the small steps dont mean a thing | 09:39 |
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| freemangordon | that looks promising | 09:40 |
| jonwil | what looks promising? | 09:40 |
| freemangordon | oops :D | 09:41 |
| freemangordon | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1487058&postcount=10 | 09:41 |
| jonwil | and by big steps I mean things like rtcom-call-ui, rtcom-messaging-ui, browser etc | 09:42 |
| jonwil | If replacing the big pieces is too hard, then any work on the little pieces gets us no closer to gtk3 in the grand scheme of things | 09:42 |
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| freemangordon | I know, but those are not parts of core OS | 09:43 |
| jonwil | systemui isn't really technically either | 09:43 |
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| * freemangordon wishes to have enough free time to work on browser replacement | 09:43 | |
| freemangordon | jonwil: I think it is | 09:43 |
| klopsi-u3 | what browser would come into question as a replacement? | 09:44 |
| jonwil | Maybe my next mission could be to pull apart the browser and document all the things necessary in terms of replacing it | 09:44 |
| freemangordon | klopsi-u3: maybe netsurf | 09:45 |
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| freemangordon | gecko has become too monstrous to continue to use it | 09:46 |
| bencoh | when you say "gtk3", you mean replacing gtk2 with gtk3 and porting every gtk app in the base system if needed? | 09:46 |
| freemangordon | (in terms of memory usage) | 09:46 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: yeah | 09:46 |
| freemangordon | and afaik gtk2 and gtk3 can coexist | 09:47 |
| bencoh | regarding the web browser, I wonder if https://github.com/szeged/TyGL would do | 09:47 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, but having both gtk2 and 3 apps eats more memory | 09:47 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: exactly | 09:47 |
| freemangordon | I know | 09:47 |
| jonwil | Would we keep the old browser around for | 09:47 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: this is webkit based? | 09:47 |
| bencoh | (like with qt; just a bit less) | 09:48 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: yup | 09:48 |
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| freemangordon | "our" webkit is too old and slow to be a viable replaceent | 09:48 |
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| bencoh | it's gles/efl based | 09:48 |
| KotCzarny | gtk3 is nice because of touch enhancements | 09:48 |
| KotCzarny | (scrolled windows and stuff) | 09:48 |
| jonwil | If we replaced the browser what would we do about rtcom-messaging-ui? | 09:48 |
| jonwil | which uses the browser engine | 09:48 |
| KotCzarny | i mean kinetic scrolled | 09:48 |
| bencoh | jonwil: rewrite it with something else I guess | 09:48 |
| freemangordon | it uses it through a shim | 09:48 |
| bencoh | ah | 09:49 |
| freemangordon | gtkmozembed or somesuch, which is foss | 09:49 |
| freemangordon | is there a dialer application in nemo? | 09:50 |
| jonwil | actually rtcom-messaging-api uses tablet-browser-view and brwoser-neteal to talk to the browser engine | 09:50 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: I think there are two (the old one and the new one) | 09:51 |
| jonwil | so rtcom-messaging-api talks to an instance of browserd | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: still the same, rtcom-messageing-ui just embeds a browser engine wrapper and makes it navigate to your emessages | 09:52 |
| jonwil | yeah it communicates to browserd over dbus | 09:52 |
| jonwil | also what do we do about Flash on any new browser? | 09:53 |
| jonwil | Or is the answer "we dont care anymore"? | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | yes, we don;t care | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | also, nothing stops you from having microd still there | 09:53 |
| jonwil | I for one dont think I have ever intentionally visited a site on my N900 that used Flash for anything important | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | *microb | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: besides youtube, back in the days it used to work | 09:54 |
| jonwil | Never visited YT on the N900 at all | 09:54 |
| * freemangordon did | 09:54 | |
| jonwil | A new browser can use the non-Flash HTML5 version of YouTube | 09:54 |
| jonwil | just like I get on my desktop | 09:54 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 09:55 |
| freemangordon | I have some experience with gecko's gst pipeline ;) | 09:55 |
| freemangordon | BTW netsurf is a nughtmare to build | 09:56 |
| freemangordon | *nightmare | 09:56 |
| jonwil | Worse than trying to build Gecko on a Windows PC? | 09:57 |
| freemangordon | never tried but I guess | 09:57 |
| jonwil | there are a few things that a new browser should copy from microb | 09:58 |
| klopsi-u3 | swiping pages with finger | 09:59 |
| jonwil | like the ability to bring up the phone dialer when you press on a phone number link (if its been made properly on the web site) | 09:59 |
| klopsi-u3 | i don't need that but nice | 09:59 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | is QML browser not worth giving some love? | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: that shouldn;t be hard to implement | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast^: imo no, as the underlying engine doesn't worth it | 10:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | ok, I am only thinking from a time/code saving POV | 10:01 |
| jonwil | whilst it would be great to have a new browser for the N900, I think that such an effort is going to be a medium-term or long-term thing | 10:02 |
| jonwil | In the short term it would be useful to update the security stuff in the existing browser so it works with modern websites and doesn't leave people vulnerable to exploits and security flaws | 10:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | i am not even sure what engine it uses, webkit? | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | not many exploits target arm-linux browsers | 10:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:05 |
| KotCzarny | mostly xss | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast^: which browser? | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | qml | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | webkit | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | :nod: just done a browser check. | 10:06 |
| jonwil | Not so much exploits in the browsers | 10:08 |
| jonwil | but all the various SSL/TLS exploits that work on any vulnerable browser | 10:08 |
| jonwil | and can be used for MITM attacks etc | 10:08 |
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| jonwil | and also the need to update the security so it supports standards it doesn't currently support (like TLS1.2) that some websites are now requiring | 10:10 |
| jonwil | the security stuff in microb is the Gecko NSS library | 10:10 |
| jonwil | so we would need to somehow do things to that to make it work :) | 10:11 |
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| bencoh | what I dont understand is how rendering is done with tablet-ui/browser/browserd in microb | 10:17 |
| bencoh | does browserd render to a memory buffer and UI displays it? | 10:18 |
| jonwil | no, browserd renders to a GTK object of some sort | 10:20 |
| bencoh | and ... object is passed through dbus? oO | 10:22 |
| bencoh | or is there some sharedmem mechanism? | 10:23 |
| jonwil | I believe it passes an xid | 10:23 |
| bencoh | ah | 10:23 |
| bencoh | makes sense | 10:23 |
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| jonwil | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/browser/client-server/trunk/neteal/include/neteal.h?revision=4005&view=markup has the gory details if you care :) | 10:23 |
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| jonwil | its using a GtkPlug and a GtkSocket whatever those are | 10:24 |
| freemangordon | hmm, iirc gtk has API to embed one process' window into another process window | 10:24 |
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| jonwil | yeah I see now on the GTK docs what those 2 are for | 10:25 |
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| jonwil | hi | 13:23 |
| jonwil | merlin1991: ping | 13:24 |
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| bencoh | has anyone ever had only one non-working headphone output side? | 14:04 |
| bencoh | (n900) | 14:04 |
| Wizzup | you sure it's not your HP/plug? | 14:05 |
| Wizzup | I've had issues with the HP, yes. Opened it up a few times to fix it | 14:05 |
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| bencoh | Wizzup: headphones plug or n900 plug ? | 14:14 |
| bencoh | it could be my headphones, I dont know yet (I'm on the go) | 14:15 |
| Wizzup | HP uncountably many times | 14:15 |
| Wizzup | n900 as few times | 14:15 |
| Wizzup | a few times* | 14:15 |
| bencoh | how did you fix n900? | 14:15 |
| Wizzup | open it, and pushed something a bit back | 14:15 |
| Wizzup | iirc it just didn't make contact | 14:15 |
| bencoh | the springs? | 14:16 |
| bencoh | (headphone detection works properly, and I have one working side) | 14:17 |
| Wizzup | I have had that often | 14:18 |
| Wizzup | usually a HP problem | 14:18 |
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| KotCzarny | bencoh, find someone with headphones and test | 14:19 |
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| Wizzup | And then grab a soldering iron | 14:19 |
| Wizzup | ;) | 14:19 |
| bencoh | :) | 14:20 |
| KotCzarny | or test headphones with someones device | 14:20 |
| KotCzarny | that would also provide some info | 14:20 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: yeah, I just dont have either right now | 14:20 |
| Wizzup | ``hey baby, can I plug in my headphone plug for a bit'' | 14:20 |
| Wizzup | ``can you put on some music?'' | 14:21 |
| Wizzup | sokay ... orry ;) | 14:21 |
| Wizzup | okay .... sorry* | 14:21 |
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| KotCzarny | you will never know if you dont ask, right? | 14:22 |
| bencoh | :] | 14:22 |
| Vajb | bencoh: just go by "hey baby can i put my jack into your socket" | 14:27 |
| bencoh | meh | 14:28 |
| Vajb | maybe to add my 3.5mm jack :) | 14:28 |
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| KotCzarny | hey baby, my plug is not working correctly, would you like to help me out? | 14:29 |
| Vajb | could work too! | 14:30 |
| * jonwil has run out of things to reverse engineer | 14:46 | |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, reverse cmt-speech | 14:47 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:47 |
| jonwil | not gonna happen :) | 14:47 |
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| klopsi-u3 | jonwil are you doing that for neo900? | 14:50 |
| jonwil | doing what? Reverse engineering? | 14:51 |
| jonwil | I am not specifically doing reverse engineering for Neo900 | 14:51 |
| jonwil | I am just reverse engineering parts of the N900 system that have some value in being reverse engineered | 14:51 |
| jonwil | or that are interesting to reverse engineer | 14:51 |
| klopsi-u3 | cool | 14:51 |
| jonwil | but its getting to the point where all the interesting or useful things are too complex to reverse engineer | 14:52 |
| jonwil | hence my claim that I am out of things to do | 14:53 |
| klopsi-u3 | What things need replacement for security purposes | 14:55 |
| klopsi-u3 | i have a newly flashed pr1.3 i think | 14:55 |
| jonwil | Installing CSSU is the best way to go for security things | 14:56 |
| jonwil | That's the best you can get as far as a "security update" | 14:56 |
| klopsi-u3 | ok | 14:56 |
| zGrr | neo900 is going to be quite expensive. around 1k€ if i remember correctly, right? | 14:57 |
| klopsi-u3 | i saw that number also | 14:59 |
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| zGrr | did you actually consider possibility of porting maemo to any of countless shenzen smartphones? would it actually make any sense? | 15:04 |
| Vajb | it would not IMO. They still lack hw kbd no matter of OS. | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | well, why did chines did not put linux on them in the first place? | 15:10 |
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| KotCzarny | oh, i know, ti licence price :P | 15:10 |
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| zGrr | Vajb: don't get me wrong, i'd love to have a hw kbd, but i see the keyboard as least of a problem. | 15:17 |
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| zGrr | KotCzarny: did they? i've never heard of it. | 15:17 |
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| KotCzarny | see 'did not' | 15:18 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:18 |
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| zGrr | KotCzarny: right, i see. it was a question. :) | 15:23 |
| zGrr | KotCzarny: it's a complex question. | 15:24 |
| zGrr | KotCzarny: maybe they simply didn't know, they could come here and ask to port linux to run on their handsets? | 15:27 |
| zGrr | KotCzarny: but even if they did, it might not be that easy because they don't control some key smartphone components. | 15:28 |
| Vajb | zGrr: it's about personal taste i think :) Hw kbd was the main thing for me when i decided to buy n900 | 15:35 |
| zGrr | Vajb: main thing was linux. if the keyboard was main thing, you'd be fine with droid4, blackberry or something like that. | 15:37 |
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| klopsi-u3 | both are needed to be good | 15:40 |
| klopsi-u3 | you could say 'main thing on this car is the diesel engine' | 15:40 |
| klopsi-u3 | but you still need a steering wheel | 15:40 |
| Vajb | zGrr: That is possible, but in finnish market there wasn't any droid phone with kbd. Even Jolla has no kbd. | 15:41 |
| Vajb | my previous phone was e90. So maybe you understand my fuss over kbd :) | 15:42 |
| zGrr | Vajb: i understand. i still use n900 as my primary phone. hw kbd plays major factor, but the primary thing is, there is no other phone on the market that could functionally replace it. | 15:44 |
| Vajb | well to be honest nowadays there are other reasons to use n900, but kbd was first back then. | 15:47 |
| Vajb | i like the way the stuff just works | 15:47 |
| klopsi-u3 | i had to reflash twice recently | 15:51 |
| KotCzarny | for me major factor is that i can easily write apps for it | 15:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 15:53 |
| Vajb | lucky you :) | 15:53 |
| KotCzarny | you can too | 15:54 |
| KotCzarny | pygtk etc | 15:54 |
| Vajb | i could also, but im too busy to start learning code. | 15:54 |
| Vajb | i've planned, but haven't got time so, meh | 15:54 |
| KotCzarny | best way is just having a target (ie. you need something) | 15:54 |
| KotCzarny | then learning comes as a bonus | 15:55 |
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| Vajb | like, i want to remove one feature ;) | 15:58 |
| Sicelo | :) | 15:59 |
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| zGrr | ... and there is easydebian for n900 | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | only chroot | 16:08 |
| KotCzarny | not native | 16:08 |
| drathir | alarm rulez ^^ | 16:09 |
| drathir | hrhr... | 16:09 |
| Sicelo | debian runs fine native on n900 | 16:09 |
| KotCzarny | with gsm voice? | 16:09 |
| Sicelo | as well as other distros | 16:09 |
| drathir | alarm modem only supporting if nothin changed... | 16:10 |
| Sicelo | KotCzarny: i have always thought voice was not available. now it is completely supported. got confirmation few days ago | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | wooo! | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | now THAT's news | 16:10 |
| drathir | Sicelo: You jokin right ? ^^ | 16:11 |
| Sicelo | bencoh has more faith than i do | 16:11 |
| Sicelo | no. not joking | 16:11 |
| drathir | O.o | 16:11 |
| Sicelo | http://elinux.org/N900 .. all is there. | 16:11 |
| Sicelo | just make UI and roll | 16:11 |
| KotCzarny | now we just need flashable image | 16:11 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 16:11 |
| drathir | Sicelo: thats great news !!! | 16:11 |
| Sicelo | of course won't have 3d accel ever | 16:12 |
| drathir | XFCE4 WORKIN GREAT... | 16:12 |
| drathir | sry caps ;/ | 16:12 |
| zGrr | yup | 16:12 |
| Vajb | KotCzarny: now you have problem and you can learn ;) | 16:12 |
| drathir | its not android which need 4+cores and acceleration to workin... ;p | 16:13 |
| Sicelo | drathir: e17 was good too last i tested | 16:13 |
| KotCzarny | remember linux ran on 386 with 4M of ram | 16:17 |
| Sicelo | of course xfce/lxde are great in that they are more mainstream (so you get lots of plugins/features than e17), but still light | 16:17 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 16:17 |
| KotCzarny | fluxbox might be too hardcore | 16:17 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 16:17 |
| * Sicelo will check if there's a way to contact skry | 16:20 | |
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| Sicelo | ah .. seems he's at least aware about recent developments | 16:31 |
| Sicelo | https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/3/2/747 | 16:31 |
| zGrr | KotCzarny: i bought pentium 500 mmx (geode lx on alix) last year. | 16:31 |
| KotCzarny | zgrr: wanna run oscp on it? | 16:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 16:39 |
| zGrr | not yet | 16:40 |
| KotCzarny | i run it on 400mz vx machine | 16:49 |
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| untouchable | hi all | 16:58 |
| untouchable | i am trying reflash nokia n900 need the filesplease | 16:58 |
| untouchable | been trying for days | 16:58 |
| KotCzarny | ~flashing | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | ~ping | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | bot is away | 16:59 |
| infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh | 16:59 |
| infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss | 16:59 |
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| untouchable | i have been there all the links not avalible any more | 17:00 |
| KotCzarny | grab the script, run it | 17:00 |
| KotCzarny | nothing else needed | 17:01 |
| untouchable | which one | 17:01 |
| untouchable | the first one | 17:01 |
| KotCzarny | second | 17:01 |
| untouchable | how to run it please | 17:01 |
| untouchable | nokia n900 now saying image needed | 17:02 |
| KotCzarny | unpack archive | 17:02 |
| KotCzarny | ... | 17:02 |
| untouchable | alright | 17:02 |
| KotCzarny | you know *nix cmdline basics? | 17:02 |
| untouchable | i know nothing i just followed instruction downloadind this and that from maemo and nothing working | 17:03 |
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| KotCzarny | ok, download the script | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | on pc | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | unpack with tar -xzf file.tar.gz | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | enter unpacked dir, run the script inside | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | dont rememember the name | 17:04 |
| untouchable | open the script with what command please | 17:05 |
| KotCzarny | ./script_name | 17:06 |
| untouchable | its not a zip | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | .... | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | 1/ download script | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | 2/ unpack with: tar -xzf filename | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | 3/ enter unpacked dir | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | 4/ run: ./scriptname (dont remember the name) | 17:07 |
| untouchable | it just saying maemo my private work | 17:08 |
| untouchable | so my nokia n900 broken now right??? | 17:09 |
| untouchable | itd done | 17:09 |
| untouchable | its | 17:09 |
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| nokia | gosh | 17:15 |
| nokia | its me again | 17:15 |
| nokia | now any one to help me please | 17:15 |
| nokia | i have nokia n900 and now saying no image after i tried to download flasher and the 2 files as instructed and nothing is working | 17:16 |
| nokia | when nokia n900 start the screen message comes as no image! | 17:17 |
| KotCzarny | the script is not firmware, you have to run it to download firmware and flash | 17:17 |
| nokia | i hear you buddy but non of the links is working | 17:17 |
| nokia | how to run this script you adviced? | 17:18 |
| nokia | i am using window XP | 17:18 |
| KotCzarny | just checked, its working | 17:18 |
| KotCzarny | its for linux pc | 17:18 |
| nokia | could you please instruct me of how to run this script please when i download it my deskto came as open with what? | 17:19 |
| nokia | oh | 17:19 |
| nokia | so not for windows | 17:19 |
| nokia | alright so no advice | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | just google | 17:21 |
| nokia | thanks you | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | there are some mirrors still active | 17:21 |
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| nokia | i have been googling for days so why maemo not having active up to date links | 17:22 |
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| KotCzarny | because of nokia | 17:22 |
| KotCzarny | ~firmware | 17:24 |
| infobot | it has been said that firmware is please see ~combined ~emmc ~flasher | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | ~combined | 17:24 |
| infobot | from memory, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | grab this one | 17:25 |
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| maria2 | hi | 19:38 |
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| sixwheeledbeast^ | lo | 19:39 |
| KotCzarny | ultra | 19:40 |
| maria2 | ultra que | 19:41 |
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| KotCzarny | ultra super hi premium | 19:50 |
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| buZz | is there some filemanager for maemo that does scp? | 20:33 |
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| ceene | buZz: mc, midnight commander | 20:55 |
| buZz | hmmm good point! ty | 20:56 |
| ceene | is a terminal (ncurses) application | 20:56 |
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| sixwheeledbeast^ | would you not use scp in a terminal? | 21:53 |
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| KotCzarny | re. | 22:18 |
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| Maxdamantus | If you want something like a file manager, just use a normal filemanager on a sshfs (sftp) mountpoint. | 22:34 |
| Maxdamantus | (I'm not sure scp itself is suitable for file management btw—you'd probably want to use sftp) | 22:53 |
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| KotCzarny | http://www.techamok.com/?pid=16649 | 23:01 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 23:01 |
| Sicelo | yes, saw that yesterday. on the other hand, Google blames device manufacturers for almost all insecurities. they tested the SGS6 and found many weaknesses | 23:12 |
| KotCzarny | main problem is that devices cant be upgraded by user | 23:12 |
| KotCzarny | ie. manufacturer moves on, support is 0 | 23:13 |
| Sicelo | SGS6 is current flagship | 23:13 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, but im talking about older devices | 23:14 |
| KotCzarny | and non-googlish | 23:14 |
| KotCzarny | without root user cant even try to replace system things | 23:14 |
| KotCzarny | and even then.. | 23:14 |
| KotCzarny | in that matter even n900 is better | 23:16 |
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