IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2015-11-04

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* Oksana does not get why there are two conflicting updates: Linux-kernel-for-power-user and Linux-kernel-for-power-user-(boot-image-for-Uboot) . OS: CSSU Testing Thumb (21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb0) . /Don't forget that it lacks microUSB port and hence flasher is not an option/04:49
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MaxdamantusGot the N9 I bought.07:40
Maxdamantusseems to be in better condition than I expected.07:40
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jonwilwhy would anyone want a N9?07:51
MaxdamantusOksana: I suspect the latter will be a uboot image with that Linux kernel appended.07:52
Maxdamantusbecause extra N900s are harder to find.07:52
KotCzarnyn9 is a lot different software wise than n90007:55
MaxdamantusIt still runs Xorg, right?07:55
KotCzarnybut no gtk07:56
KotCzarnyonly qt and xlib i think07:56
MaxdamantusGtk is normally just a library.07:57
Maxdamantusit's not like it's lacking any convenient support for a Gtk service.07:57
KotCzarnystill, its just showing that it can be different07:58
MaxdamantusI don't expect it to be the same. I don't particularly like Maemo either, but it seems preferable over something like Android to me .07:59
jonwilI have owned 4 different cell phones in my life and the N900 is the best one I have ever owned07:59
jonwilA fair few years ago now I did a 6 month student internship with Motorola (basically 6 months of full time paid work that counted as a university course)08:00
MaxdamantusN900 is my second one, after some carier-specific phone running some special OS.08:01
jonwilMy first phone was a Motorola E378i which was a piece of crap.08:01
jonwilThen I lost that phone somewhere after only a short amount of time and replaced it with a Motorola L6 which was a little better but still crap.08:02
jonwilBoth of those were bought outright and used on a prepaid plan08:02
jonwilThen quite a while after that I switched carriers to a different carrier on a by-the-month contract and bought a Motorola Z6 linux phone which wasn't the worst thing in the world (especially after some nice hackers found a backdoor in the boot loader that let you replace the kernel and root filesystemwithout failing the signature checks)08:03
jonwilThen I got the N900 and have been happy ever since08:04
jonwilOther than the USB port problems, the N900 is a surprisingly tough phone08:04
jonwilIts landed on the floor more than once (enough to pop off the back cover and even the battery sometimes) but its still going strong08:05
jonwilTechnically this is my third N900 after the first one was replaced under warranty because the flex cable connecting the multi-color LED and front camera to the main phone part failed and the second one was replaced for the busted USB problem08:06
MaxdamantusI've dropped mine on tar-seal road a couple of times.08:06
jonwilboth of which are manufacturing/design problems rather than failings on my part I suspect08:06
KotCzarnymine was dropped hard few times too08:06
jonwilwhy do you need a N9 if you already have a N900?08:06
MaxdamantusI soldered the USB port to the motherboard a while ago.08:06
KotCzarnyi would like n9 (and 770) to port oscp to08:07
jonwilfair enough :)08:07
Maxdamantusin case I want to experiment with things.08:07
MaxdamantusI'm meant to kind of have a phone.08:07
KotCzarnyalso, it can be considered jolla phone08:07
jonwilme, I am running all sorts of self-built packages on my phone including my own reverse engineered MCE clone08:08
Maxdamantusisn't MCE already open?08:09
MaxdamantusI think I modified it to avoid turning the screen on when plugging in USB.08:09
jonwilnot the N900 version08:09
Maxdamantusmaybe it was DSME.08:09
jonwilDSME is open08:09
jonwilMCE wasn't08:09
jonwilnot until I came up with
jonwilwhich btw was a LOT of work08:09
Maxdamantusah, that is MCE.08:10
MaxdamantusIt'll be your one then.08:10
jonwilyeah probably08:11
jonwilAnyhow, I should probably get back to working on libcodelockui :)08:14
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MaxdamantusI see that the volume controls work while the screen is off by default on the N9.08:26
KotCzarnyis this clean flash?08:27
MaxdamantusI suspect it's almost clean. It looks like the last person did a flash then installed some psm-toggle thing.08:27
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MaxdamantusThe status light on this thing looks like HAL 9000 when it's off.08:40
* jonwil wonders if people appreciate all the reverse engineering work he does for the N90008:41
jonwilI am sure they do though :)08:41
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SiceloMaxdamantus: isn't it normal and expected that volume controls should work while screen is off?10:09
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MaxdamantusSicelo: apparently not on the N900.10:16
Maxdamantusthat's an extra configuration option in /etc/dsme.ini or something.10:16
Sicelono. default10:17
MaxdamantusBy default, the keyboard device is disabled when the screen is off.10:19
bencohSicelo: default when playing music with mediaplayer10:19
bencoh(or mafw, dunno)10:19
MaxdamantusAh, maybe that's the case.10:20
* Maxdamantus hasn't used the default music player in a while.10:20
bencohwhich is a bit annoying for other players10:20
bencohthe most annoying thing is the power button "interruption"10:20
Siceloah. 3rd party player :)10:21
* Maxdamantus never presses the power button.10:21
Maxdamantusexcept when turning it on10:21
bencohwhen you play something with mplayer/cmus/whatever and press it, music get stucks for a few seconds and system feels slow/unresponsive10:21
bencohI wonder where that comes from10:21
MaxdamantusI've always assumed pressing the power button does some sort of temporary freeze of processes it doesn't completely trust or something.10:22
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Sicelobencoh: even in CSSU power button does that?11:14
bencohcssu-stable yes11:19
bencohdont know about others11:19
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Vajbconfirmed with mplayer + cssu-testing11:46
Vajblike if i double click power to lock screen11:46
Vajbthere is slight pause11:46
Vajbalso if i click it to see time same thing happens11:47
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Vajbtime well spent yesterday. I looked everywhere and cuoldn't pinpoint exactly what makes that task switcher icon appear in top left corner.11:48
Vajbnext thing to do will be to compare with other device to see if maemeego does some other magic than just to lose image.11:49
Vajbbut i suppose it just replaces image with black box sort of11:50
Vajbwould match with behaviour at least.11:50
bencohprobably yes11:53
Siceloyou're really serious about this :)11:54
Siceloby the way, after you succeed, how  do you plan on getting into the application list?11:55
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jonwilThe button in question is rendered by hildon-desktop FYI12:15
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jonwilprobably hd-title-bar.c is what is drawing it12:17
jonwilBut yeah again removing it is totally stupid12:17
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bencohjonwil: by the way, sure we do (appreciate)12:19
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Sicelofor the life of me, i can't find a working tutorial for flashplayer 10 on n900 ... i need it for my 2nd device14:00
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VajbSicelo: im speaking of task manager button not application list.14:18
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bencohSicelo: iirc it was just a matter of downloading flash10 (for harmattan?) and hexedit it14:31
bencohI think there is a tmo post14:31
infobot[maemo-flashing], or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh14:31
bencohmeh :)14:31
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Sicelonot reflashing :p14:38
infobotsomebody said flashplayer was
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Sicelothanks. got to it from another angle ;)14:50
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Sicelothis link seems better.14:56
Siceloum .. download link seems dead. or i have to create ubuntu one account?14:58
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Siceloah, lol. ubuntu one closed.15:00
Oksanaa;-) Cloud may be the future, but it's not a bright one15:01
Sohil876Cloud is too early imho.15:02
Sicelothe sun & wind drives cloud away15:07
Siceloanyway, got the file in my other n900 :)15:08
klopsi-u3thanks to transflective screen, n900 is readable in full sun15:10
Oksanaa:-D And so is Neo900, or will be15:10
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OksanaaBy the way, how is Deutsche Bank? I heard about lay-offs or something?15:13
klopsi-u3hard times15:14
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bencohSicelo: I think I found the .deb with some google-fuu15:33
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Sicelobencoh: pm? :)15:33
bencoherr, not sure I have it around here15:34
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Sicelothought you meant now15:36
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bencohhmmm, looks like I have 10-1 on my n90015:40
bencoh(installed, couldnt find the package on it)15:40
Siceloi have the file bencoh. thanks. had a copy of the 10-1 deb on my main N90015:43
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Siceloi just want to 'speedtest' my mobile network ... somehow i have 300MB expiring in a few hours that i wasn't aware of all along16:02
Sicelocan't think what else to do with this data16:03
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txt-fileSicelo, torrent!!! :-D17:50
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Vajbhmm tried find to find hd-title-bar.c, but it says it doesn't excist20:21
bencohVajb: hildon-desktop/src/home/hd-title-bar.c20:29
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drozdziak1Hi guys, is there any reasonable distro to use on N900 instead of Maemo? I mean, with an ability for making calls and texting? (The #n900 channel didn't answer my question, neither did googling it)22:15
Sicelowhat's wrong with Maemo?22:17
drozdziak1Virtually nothing. I'm just thinking about finally buying an N90022:18
Sicelolikely in the near future all distros that support ARM will do what you want ... but as of yet, none other22:18
Siceloenjoy Maemo :)22:18
drozdziak1Is it because of lack of documentation for hardware?22:18
Siceloit's not as 'stale' as you may think .. still a few devs keeping it as fresh as circumstances allow22:18
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drozdziak1Yes, I do realise that, there's still a market for new units in my country. It's just its specs are a bit outdated for the present standards.22:19
Sicelodrozdziak1: i don't think you've seen a phone that works 100% with 'standard' linux distros .. (except maybe ubuntu phone? not sure)22:19
drozdziak1Sicelo: You mean some N900's ability to do that?22:20
drozdziak1Or the lack of it being indifferent?22:21
bencohwell, actually, you might be able to place calls and a few other things, but nothing out of the box22:22
bencohand you wont get any clean UI22:22
Sicelodrozdziak1: gfx drivers for example are closed source. modem 'speaks' in a way that needs some special closed-source nokia binaries .. which means and depends on particular kernel22:22
bencoh(unless you start working on it)22:22
Sicelobencoh: aiui that's still future :) do you know a way currently? to call?22:23
drozdziak1I see, that makes a lot of sense.22:23
drozdziak1I wonder, why can't someone for once make a device that's fully hackable? Just. Once.22:24
bencohSicelo: nemo is able to do it with opensource parts; as for kernel, required drivers have been merged22:24
Sicelonot really opensource parts, iirc.22:24
bencohnemo? fully opensource apart from battery/bme iirc22:24
bencohunfortunately they dropped n900 support and went full wayland22:25
Sicelohmm, :-/ i don't remember that22:25
Siceloi know skry made a lot of progress with Arch, but even he ended up abandoning it.22:26
bencohand even before that, they started releasing some new UI that just feels dead slow on n900 and is half-incomplete22:27
bencohworst thing is they removed a lot of working images, and the few still lying around aren't too great22:28
bencoh(some of them work, kindof)22:28
Siceloui is not too big problem though. when i played with debian i didn't mind sending sms via ofono scripts, or connecting to 3g that way22:28
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Siceloi should look where my nemo images are. but nemo was also stuck on 2.6.37 kernel, was it not?22:28
Sicelothat's what i remember. in fact, the rescueos kernel was based on nemos :)22:29
bencohI dunno which modem/voice kernel driver it used, but if it's the same as in maemo (or close enough) then their ofono/pulseaudio setup might work on debian with latest (4.3) kernel22:29
bencoh(or a kernel built from pali's or sre's tree, whichever works best)22:30
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Siceloyes, know that one. spoke to sre while he worked on it22:32
Siceloi seem to think something is still missing .. maybe i should play with debian again :)22:32
bencohI wonder what he's running on his daily n900 (if he still has one as a daily phone)22:32
Sicelolast it was maemo :p actually he's generally online via xmpp with it22:33
bencohdo we have a maemo xmpp mux?22:34
SiceloMUC, you mean? i don't believe so22:35
bencohmuc* yeah22:35
Sicelosre used to hangout on OFTC, but seems he left IRC, or at least not so active there anymore22:35
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Sicelo009Nhmm, so you are right after all bencoh :)22:38
Sicelo009Npartially. The debian kernel has not yet enabled the config option (there is a debian bug for that)22:39
Sicelo009Nbut the mainline kernel contains all required bits22:39
Sicelo009Nthat's sre ^^22:39
Sicelo009Nso far I only got the downlink direction working (from extern phone to n900), but thats a userland problem22:39
bencohdid you just try placing a call?22:40
Sicelono. i don't even have any 4.x kernel here .. i'm pasting what he has said just now22:41
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Siceloso problem is in debian, ... meaning other distros may be fine.22:42
Siceloguess it's time to finally use my other N90022:42
Sicelo <<-- debian 'bug'22:42
bencohwell, building a kernel on debian isn't that hard :)22:43
* Sicelo wonders where skry went off to .. he'd be happy man now22:44
bencohI really should get a second n90022:44
Siceloyou have no other device even?22:45
Sicelodumb phone, etc.?22:45
bencohI do have some dump phone22:46
Siceloi did all my nemo/arch/debian/etc. experiments on my only N900 (at the time) which was also my main phone :)22:46
Sicelorisky, i know, but i had no choice22:46
Siceloonly stopped when my USB broke, and i got lazy thereafter. since 2nd N900 arrived, i have done nothing. it's just a backup N90022:47
bencohplaying with maemo userland is mostly fine (unless you break essential stuff - and you're good for a rescueOS round), but fiddling with other distros is ... meh :)22:47
bencohkeep inserting/removing the microsd22:47
Siceloi made a partition off mmc at the time :p22:47
bencohnoway :-)22:48
Siceloyup. couldn't get a quality microsd22:48
Sicelo009Nanyway, so i was spreading fud. drozdziak1 seems you might be able to get your calls in other distro now :)22:52
bencohbut still not out of the box and with some work (especially if you want a GUI)22:53
Siceloof course. but i guess someone fiddling with other distros should expect to work hard :p22:53
Siceloonce i broke something in the N900, and maemo could no longer create /dev nodes. i almost reflashed22:54
Sicelo*broke something while playing with debian..22:54
Sicelobencoh: seems XMPP is 'dead' as far as user numbers are concerned22:57
Sicelotbh, i hate how browsers have taken over the computing world. gone are the days of RSS client, telnet client, IRC client, etc. webchat, google reader, etc. :(22:58
Siceloof course it's because this helps user not configure anything, and is one of the reasons why whatsapp and friends are so pervasive.23:01
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drozdziak1Sicelo009N: That's great! :) Gotta go, see you all around, I guess.23:20
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