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| buZz | sweet, someone made a entire videoseries of 'fresh n8x0 pimping' | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| buZz | :P | 00:26 |
| buZz | cloning os to SD etc | 00:27 |
| buZz | on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294 | 00:27 |
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| mtnman | elho | 01:00 |
| stryngs | hi | 01:02 |
| mtnman | whassup? | 01:02 |
| stryngs | working | 01:03 |
| stryngs | u? | 01:03 |
| mtnman | reinstalling cssu after reflashing | 01:03 |
| stryngs | f-u-n | 01:03 |
| mtnman | F-U-N, even | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mtnman: restoring a BM backup is prolly faster than reinstalling CSSU | 01:30 |
| mtnman | what is bm backup? it doesn't sound so good :D | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 01:31 |
| infobot | i guess backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 01:31 |
| mtnman | well i already did restore my backup menu... but the cssu source didn't show up in application mgr | 01:32 |
| mtnman | anyhow, cssu is now installing... all is well. | 01:32 |
| Sicelo | looks like N900 is thicker than N810 .. wondering why | 01:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, a number of reasons, mostly prolly the main camera module | 01:37 |
| Sicelo | ah, that one makes sense :) | 01:37 |
| Sicelo | because cellmo shouldn't really add thickness in this particular case at least | 01:38 |
| Sicelo | i find that my interest in Nokia N810 is growing. pity i don't see any in local markets | 01:39 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Well i would think cellular would take a fair amount of space | 02:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | real estate on PCB yes, height no | 03:01 |
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| Oksanaa | find: unrecognized: -exec | 03:23 |
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| Oksanaa | I am attempting to build a package on-device, and get error: find: unrecognized: -exec | 03:40 |
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| Oksanaa | find: unrecognized: -exec What is that? During dpkg-buildpackage. And having source code relying on scratchbox so that it cannot be built on device is ugly | 05:16 |
| Oksanaa | Is there such a thing as GNU find, and where to find it? | 05:17 |
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| Oksanaa | findutils conflict busybox. going for findutils-gnu | 05:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 has a deja-vu | 05:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#proper_bash_and_tools | 05:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: ^^^ | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-09-03 Thu 04:58:36] <-- Oksanaa (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/Wikiwide) has left this server (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.1/20100330163407]). | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-09-03 Thu 04:59:09] <DocScrutinizer05> o.O | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-09-03 Thu 05:04:54] <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#proper_bash_and_tools | 05:41 |
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| Oksanaa | Thank you :-) I am too lazy yet to install all the bash and tools, so going on the have-to-have basis... | 05:46 |
| Oksanaa | My /home space is full to extent I cannot check email (aka 10MB free) | 05:46 |
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| * stryngs thinks we should re-do CSSU to NOT use optify.... To flop 30 and 2, and make the system MORE FHS like... | 07:31 | |
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| Oksanaa | Don't know. But anybody would make /home full, wil stellarium's seven star catalogues, several email accounts, and thumbnails from tens of thousands of photographs | 07:35 |
| Oksanaa | And moving it to MyDocs is not helping when MyDocs is being fsck-ed for the first five minutes after start-up | 07:36 |
| stryngs | Hmm, DocScrutinizer05: DO NOT install speedpatch, batterypatch, or auto-disconnect _ever_!! All three do not uninstall and do not work. AdBlock will slow down browser to a grinding halt. If you're concerned about your privacy, do not insert SIM before you read about cherry below! | 07:37 |
| stryngs | speedpatch doesnt do anything? | 07:37 |
| Oksanaa | I think I used neither of te three, and AdBlock is not something to be installed even on mighty desktop. And cherry existed too long ago to worry about it anymore? | 07:40 |
| stryngs | i have speedpatch installed | 07:41 |
| stryngs | kind of curious somewhat now, but shouldnt be hard to truly purge | 07:42 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, use privoxy for adblocking | 07:44 |
| KotCzarny | doc: battery-eye is nice in a sense that it doesnt drain battery (only triggers on events like charger connect/disconnect, and screen unblank | 07:44 |
| KotCzarny | etc | 07:44 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I dont browse on the n900 | 07:45 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: ever | 07:45 |
| KotCzarny | i do, occasionally | 07:45 |
| stryngs | i'm more curious of speedpatch though | 07:45 |
| stryngs | whether it does anything | 07:45 |
| KotCzarny | ~crappatch | 07:45 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 07:45 |
| stryngs | !crappatch | 07:45 |
| stryngs | ~speedpatch | 07:46 |
| stryngs | bleh | 07:46 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys patch | 07:46 |
| KotCzarny | ~help | 07:46 |
| KotCzarny | infobot: ping | 07:46 |
| stryngs | Here is a better thing, why the fuck doesnt the community own maemo repo yet? | 07:46 |
| stryngs | i.e. If it sucks, purge it | 07:46 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, extras is community repo | 07:46 |
| Oksanaa | demote it to devel | 07:46 |
| stryngs | yeah, but i'm saying as a whole | 07:47 |
| stryngs | maemo, everything | 07:47 |
| stryngs | Why doesnt the community host it | 07:47 |
| KotCzarny | afaik its cheaper/faster that way | 07:47 |
| stryngs | ? | 07:47 |
| * stryngs debates on making a maemo acct... | 07:52 | |
| svetlana | sorry. who hosts it right now? | 07:52 |
| Oksanaa | Would be great :-) Maemo account allows to upload packages to repositories, vote in elections, and such | 07:53 |
| stryngs | Wow | 07:57 |
| stryngs | So like the garage page is vuln as hell | 07:57 |
| * stryngs knows it would be easy to pwn any user on it, so thats cool and all | 07:57 | |
| * stryngs is going to write a thread in a couple days | 07:58 | |
| stryngs | Hopefully it will rally the troops | 07:58 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:58 |
| stryngs | Any type of connection | 07:58 |
| stryngs | Un *f'in* satisfactory | 07:58 |
| stryngs | wtf | 07:58 |
| KotCzarny | netname: IPHH-HILDON-SERVER-1 #442659 | 08:01 |
| KotCzarny | descr: Hildon Foundation | 08:01 |
| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team | 08:03 |
| svetlana | stryngs: normally there is one 'official' repo which packages get uploaded to. any volunteer then can mirror it. i think it is hosted by volunteers now (with a funny 'foundation' name on it), not by nokia or jolla or microsoft. | 08:03 |
| svetlana | 'hildon foundation' is just a term to group stuff under the hood for legal purposes such as owning a trademark | 08:04 |
| svetlana | someone correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not on the top of the stuff | 08:04 |
| Oksanaa | Well, ask techstaff . I do not know much. It's physically hosted in Germany? | 08:04 |
| KotCzarny | looks like | 08:05 |
| stryngs | svetlana: Yeah, but | 08:05 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, contact the webmaster in the link i've posted | 08:05 |
| Oksanaa | More or less correct. MCeV already, though, instead of HiFo | 08:05 |
| stryngs | Sadly... This community, is "fragmented" | 08:05 |
| stryngs | There should be "one" image | 08:05 |
| KotCzarny | i dont know who is responsible for garage though | 08:05 |
| stryngs | and branches from there | 08:06 |
| stryngs | If CSSU is so good, then it should be standard and not an option | 08:06 |
| Oksanaa | merlin, maybe? | 08:06 |
| stryngs | I love maemo, I love my n900, but I hate some things about it... | 08:06 |
| stryngs | I would love to see this community pull together | 08:06 |
| KotCzarny | there is no such thing as 'community' when there is work to be done | 08:07 |
| Oksanaa | Problem is, you cannot pack CSSU as flashable image, because of closed-binaries legal problems? | 08:07 |
| KotCzarny | one has to address/find specific people | 08:07 |
| svetlana | I think it is a consequence of nokia doing "official" stuff and volunteers doing "cssu". not sure whether it should remain separate. it is probably a little bit of breakage in what cssu is (?) | 08:08 |
| stryngs | You can "do" anything u want to do | 08:08 |
| svetlana | yes, what Oksanaa said | 08:08 |
| stryngs | i.e. | 08:08 |
| stryngs | Linut mint | 08:08 |
| stryngs | Kali linux | 08:08 |
| stryngs | opensuse | 08:08 |
| stryngs | etc.. | 08:08 |
| svetlana | those do not have legal problems like what Oksanaa mentioned | 08:08 |
| KotCzarny | im still using stock 1.3.1 and it works | 08:08 |
| KotCzarny | with installed packages like kernel-power etc | 08:09 |
| Oksanaa | Nice... I use CSSU-Testing, but am wary of touching anything-power | 08:10 |
| stryngs | Right, but what I'm getting at | 08:10 |
| stryngs | I envision this: | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | thing is, as long we are stuck on 2.6.28 and old glibc, there is little chance of upgrades | 08:11 |
| stryngs | n900-users.com (something like that) | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | oksana, do uname -a | 08:11 |
| stryngs | ONE website | 08:11 |
| stryngs | ONE set of directions | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | you are probably using kernel-power53 | 08:11 |
| stryngs | BRANCH ... from there | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, n900-users == maemo.org | 08:11 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Do u know someone from maemo.org? | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | if you branch, you would just create another | 08:11 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Do they hang out in this chan? | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | there is already my-maemo and few others | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | xes, chemist | 08:12 |
| stryngs | xes_: PONG | 08:12 |
| stryngs | chem|st: PONG | 08:12 |
| stryngs | I never see em speak KotCzarny | 08:12 |
| stryngs | ever. | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | merlin too | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | they are busy, but alive | 08:12 |
| stryngs | merlin1991: PONG | 08:12 |
| stryngs | I get they are busy, but we should have a meeting | 08:12 |
| stryngs | Sometime within the next 2 weeks | 08:12 |
| stryngs | Everybody get together | 08:12 |
| Oksanaa | Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown | 08:12 |
| stryngs | Plot a path forward | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | ~kp | 08:13 |
| stryngs | Do you know how much I would LOVE to contribute my .debs to the community? | 08:13 |
| stryngs | I have 106 of them as of tonight | 08:13 |
| stryngs | However | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | drat, where is infobot when one needs it | 08:13 |
| stryngs | I don't believe in that stupid optify bullshit | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, extras-devel | 08:13 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: My debs would fill yer / in a heartbeat | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | and i dont use optify, just move things to /opt manually | 08:13 |
| stryngs | I do specific chroot bind mounts to avoid nonsense | 08:13 |
| stryngs | You shouldnt have to | 08:13 |
| stryngs | thats not FHS | 08:13 |
| stryngs | And thus, why we are fragmented and alone | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | sure, if your / is big | 08:14 |
| stryngs | It's 256mb, just like yers | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | otherwise you have to play tricks | 08:14 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: No u dont! | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | bind mounts are tricks | 08:14 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Well, it's late, and my wife wants some loving, so I must leave. U be on tomorrow? | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | sure | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | i'm on all the time | 08:14 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I would love to pick your brain, you seem like u give a damn | 08:14 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: If you + others can get "truly" involved, for a 3 week period | 08:14 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Imagine what we the community, could accomplish... | 08:15 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Wouldnt it be cool to dpkg -i ANY deb? | 08:15 |
| stryngs | not worry about optifying nonsense | 08:15 |
| stryngs | etc.. | 08:15 |
| KotCzarny | i dont worry about optifying, for non-critical packages --prefix=/opt works well | 08:15 |
| stryngs | We just all have to center on ONE main tree, and branch out from there | 08:15 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Yes, but you cannot grab a kali armel deb and dpkg -i it without "tricks" as u say | 08:16 |
| stryngs | Those "tricks" they should be done in the beginning, not for every deb | 08:16 |
| KotCzarny | sure, but you still can recompile it without much hassle, which is recommended too anyway | 08:16 |
| stryngs | Can u do it on the box itself? | 08:16 |
| stryngs | Or must u scratchbvox | 08:16 |
| stryngs | If u cant do it on the box, its stupid! | 08:16 |
| stryngs | scratchbox should be a perk, not a must | 08:16 |
| KotCzarny | you can do it on the box | 08:16 |
| Oksanaa | Sure, you can do it on device. I am trying to... | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'll challenge u on that tonight | 08:17 |
| KotCzarny | but i like sb because its faster | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'll challenge u on that tomorrow | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'm going to throw a .deb at u to properly "debian style" recompile, on your n900 tomorrow | 08:17 |
| KotCzarny | 6x3.3ghz > 1x600mhz | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'm not trying to "challenge" you either, I want to work "with you" | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Please don't take me the wrong way | 08:17 |
| KotCzarny | no worries | 08:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'm just stiff in my beliefs | 08:17 |
| Oksanaa | Xchat has some weird parts where it specifically wants scratchbox, not sure how to make it free of sb... | 08:17 |
| stryngs | Oksanaa: I can show u how | 08:18 |
| stryngs | Oksanaa: I have the red pill | 08:18 |
| stryngs | Oksanaa: I can free your mind | 08:18 |
| stryngs | Oksanaa: Anyways | 08:18 |
| stryngs | Oksanaa: Tomorrow if your avail lets, chat | 08:18 |
| * stryngs waves and bows | 08:18 | |
| KotCzarny | i dont like debs anyway, im slackware guy | 08:18 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I'm marking this spot in my chat, ill pick up on your slackware point, tomorrow. | 08:19 |
| stryngs | Night folks | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | tar.gz should suffice | 08:19 |
| KotCzarny | c'ya | 08:19 |
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| Sicelo | lol stryngs. cssu shouldn't be forced down people's throats | 10:40 |
| Sicelo | this isn't Windows 10 | 10:40 |
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| KotCzarny | sicelo, i wouldnt agree, cssu if done fine and with good QA is something worth pushing | 10:41 |
| Sicelo | even your normal distro allows you a lot of flexibility. btw, CSSU is *still* standard maemo, with many of the bugs fixed | 10:41 |
| KotCzarny | and its not forced in a way you are not forced to do apt-get upgrade | 10:41 |
| Sicelo | for one, KotCzarny, there's no flashable image for CSSU. how can one force it then | 10:41 |
| KotCzarny | flashable image isnt forcing either | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | just a convenience | 10:42 |
| Sicelo | so we're saying same thing heh. | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | even on windows you can opt out of automatic updates (at least on pre-win10) | 10:43 |
| Sicelo | indeed, that's why i chose to say "Windows 10" above ;) | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | right | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | didnt see the '10' somehow | 10:44 |
| * Sicelo is responding to stryngs "if cssu is so good, then it should be a standard and not an option" | 10:44 | |
| KotCzarny | is cssu thorougly tested and tried? | 10:45 |
| KotCzarny | *thoroughly | 10:45 |
| Sicelo | nope. | 10:46 |
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| KotCzarny | bummer then | 10:46 |
| Sicelo | the attempt is definitely made, and we all report bugs .. but you can't run away from the fact that user numbers are diminishing ... | 10:47 |
| Sicelo | iirc there are still lots of devies doing updates though | 10:47 |
| Sicelo | *devices | 10:47 |
| KotCzarny | is cssu-features package the same as cssu? | 10:48 |
| Sicelo | afaik, no. cssu-features configures/enables some of the additions to stanrdard maemo, such as portrait mode. i might be wrong though. | 10:49 |
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| Ras_Older | DocScrutinizer05: Yesterday I purged the BatteryGraph and whaddya know my little baby is still powered on. I was using it also last night for few hours so things are looking good now. Thank you again! | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ras_Older: YW :-D | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | battery graph, the app that shows battery draining | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/shows/demonstrates/ | 13:58 |
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| KotCzarny | ras: install battery-eye | 14:06 |
| KotCzarny | it does its thing right | 14:07 |
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| merlin1991 | stryngs: pong | 14:19 |
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| ravelo | I have some trouble registering at talk.maemo.org. I get the error message: "You have left a required field blank." | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ^^^ | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ravelo: you got JS enabled? | 14:34 |
| ravelo | -> did not work in IE (sorry, I admit I use IE :) ) | 14:35 |
| ravelo | in opera it worked without problems | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and I thought the browser wars ended around year 2005 or somesuch | 15:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ie edge is pretty good | 15:19 |
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| stryngs | Ok, I'm responding to chatback right now, so if you say something to me, I won't respond to it just yet. On the concept of CSSU and being able to provide an image to folks; it can be done. It's how I do it with my own version of Maemo. It requires some work and creativity, but it allows for a complete "offline" installation for your n900; much like downloading any random linux ISO. One should not have to be "online" just to upgrade their n900. | 16:51 |
| stryngs | IMHO, Cssu shouldn't be done like it is; rather a meta-package; cssu_1.0_armel.deb. This meta package will include everything you need. I'm guessing it's somewhat done like that now, but "not" in the full debian style meta package sense. | 16:52 |
| stryngs | merlin1991: Hi, I'm reading chatback right now, so can't respond just yet; but I got your pong =) I'd really like to setup a community meeting online via IRC on an appointed day to discuss "Where we, the community" can go from here, and how to get those, who wish it, ALL on the same page; not the fragmeneted way things are done right now. | 16:53 |
| stryngs | ya'ay, done with scrollback | 16:53 |
| stryngs | So..... What are ya'lls thoughts on that? Creating one "standard" image, for those who wish to use it. Call is CSSU-ng or whatever... One simple .deb that provides a metapackage. Using preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm and the control file; there is nothing that cannot be accomplished. | 16:54 |
| stryngs | Also, for garage.maemo.org, I found a vulnerability; who does that get reported to....? Do they hang out in this chatroom? If not, why not, etc..? | 16:55 |
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| warfare | stryngs: techstaff@maemo.org | 17:09 |
| stryngs | Ah, hi there. | 17:09 |
| stryngs | That's who i Point to for the vuln? | 17:09 |
| warfare | Yes :) | 17:10 |
| stryngs | Cool; I'll shoot my report here in a bit. | 17:10 |
| warfare | That means that at least me & xes get the report. | 17:10 |
| stryngs | warfare: Oh, so you're one of "them" =)? | 17:10 |
| Ras_Older | Wait for a fix before going public? | 17:10 |
| stryngs | Ras_Older: I always do | 17:10 |
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| warfare | stryngs: yep. | 17:11 |
| stryngs | warfare: What are your toughts on bringing folks together for a "meet and greet and path plotting"?;2u | 17:11 |
| warfare | stryngs: Maemo folks? I think this would work best at the usual hacker conferences. | 17:12 |
| stryngs | warfare: Right, but the majority of folks I understand, are European. | 17:12 |
| stryngs | warfare: I live in SC, usa. | 17:12 |
| stryngs | warfare: I'd like to come out with a "community approved" standard image for the n900. Maemo and CSSU based | 17:13 |
| stryngs | warfare: With some bind chroot tricks | 17:13 |
| stryngs | warfare: No more optify nonsense | 17:13 |
| warfare | stryngs: I'm in northern germany, so for me the usual hacker conference is the CCC congress between christmas and new year ;) | 17:13 |
| stryngs | etc.. | 17:13 |
| stryngs | warfare: Wouldn't it be nice to simply dpkg -i ANY armel based deb for the n900 and NOT worry about filling /? | 17:13 |
| warfare | stryngs: Sure, but then you want to talk to merlin1991 about that ;) I'm only doing server stuff. | 17:14 |
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| stryngs | warfare: Copy that, now I'm finally learning names =) | 17:15 |
| stryngs | warfare: sending u vuln report nowq | 17:15 |
| warfare | stryngs: Thanks :) | 17:16 |
| stryngs | the youtube link is interesting. | 17:17 |
| stryngs | warfare: and sent. | 17:17 |
| stryngs | warfare: If u have further question, pm me; too lazy to write proper whitepaper for it. | 17:17 |
| stryngs | Alright, time to get movin for work, afk a bit. If anyone "likes" the idea of "coming together" for a "maemo conference", start posting some ideas... | 17:18 |
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| Sicelo | cssu_1.0_armel.deb | 17:57 |
| kerio | ? | 17:59 |
| Sicelo | you'll be installing it next month | 17:59 |
| kerio | k | 17:59 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | will it be tested and confirmed stable? | 18:39 |
| Sicelo | yes | 18:40 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | :P | 18:47 |
| kerio | ~bme-replacement | 18:49 |
| infobot | bme-replacement is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/projects/maemo/bme-replacement.html See also: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bme_replacement . Please, use wiki page to report bugs/problems and/or solutions to them!, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93183 | 18:49 |
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| ZetaR | Is BME replacement recommended for typical phone usage? | 18:54 |
| kerio | stable enough for me | 18:54 |
| ZetaR | So no babysitting it? | 18:55 |
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| ZetaR | Has anyone made a script or package to strip out the nonfree Maemo packages (however many have replacements) and install the free alternatives? | 18:57 |
| ZetaR | That would be pretty cool, because it can be hard to figure out how to do all of that. | 18:57 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ZetaR: are we talking extras packages or system FOSS alternative packages | 19:05 |
| ZetaR | sixwheeledbeast: Something that will strip out as many of the proprietary packages as possible from a fresh flash. That is what I have in mind. | 19:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ZetaR: people have personal versions but not "all closed packages", TBH if your on CSSU-T there's probably a reason that package is still closed and installed. | 19:09 |
| ZetaR | Well, like bme-replacement, for example. Or fapman. AFAIK, there are replacements for many of the unfree things but you have to know to look for them. | 19:11 |
| kerio | i'm preeeeeeeeeetty sure that HAM is opensource | 19:12 |
| kerio | and fapman is bad | 19:12 |
| ZetaR | Oh, well, these are things I am not well informed about, and why I am asking. Just replace with whatever is actually a good example. ;-) | 19:13 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Yep, do bear in mind that just because it is FOSS that doesn't always mean it's better. Especially if there's no support any more. | 19:15 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | HAM is open hence speedyham | 19:15 |
| ZetaR | Maybe speedyham is what I was thinking of. | 19:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | speedyham is ham that has been patched my fmg | 19:16 |
| ZetaR | Even just a table of alternatives with comments (like "not recommended because of blah blah") would be nice. | 19:17 |
| ZetaR | Or updated versions like speedyham. | 19:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Well that's what I mean if you fancy that then CSSU-T is the place to be. | 19:18 |
| ZetaR | Ah, okay. I used stable when I did my flash. | 19:20 |
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| stryngs | imho, ham sucks. | 19:51 |
| * stryngs can't understand why folks would want the GUI package manager that's slower than a cow | 19:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ham sucks, use lightningh^H speedyham which *rocks* | 19:52 |
| stryngs | Interesting | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~speedyham | 19:52 |
| infobot | it has been said that speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb | 19:52 |
| stryngs | So hey, DocScrutinizer05, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#proper_bash_and_tools <--- is that you? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure :-) | 19:53 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: What have you thought about my idea of generating 1 community image to branch out from? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess a mentioning of speedyham in there would just be in order | 19:53 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: "Bring" the community together, get us all on a level playing field. | 19:53 |
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| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Sure, see this is what I'm talking about. If it's so good, ham should be removed and speedyham should be the standard. | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you lost me | 19:54 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I want to, in the next couple weeks, get a gather of "smart" maemo folks. | 19:54 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I'd like us, to put our heads together and decide on what .debs should be on a "standard" image | 19:54 |
| stryngs | And then Push that as the "new" way to do maemo | 19:54 |
| stryngs | Like CSSU, but better. | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's what I suggested as "my basic needs covered" package in CSSU repo, as am optional package | 19:54 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Thing is, everybody has a billion great ideas, but unless u look at the forums, or happen to be in chat at the right time and place; all these ideas are scattered like sand in the wind. | 19:55 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Whereas, since we evidently have control of the maemo domain via warfare, we can "point" users in a true northward direction. | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sadly sort of true that | 19:55 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I propose, that a 100% offline "image" of "whatever we vote to call it" be made available. | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "point users any direction" is not exactly simple | 19:56 |
| stryngs | I already do it with my personal image | 19:56 |
| stryngs | We need to point em in one direction | 19:56 |
| stryngs | And then ofc, they can branch from there | 19:56 |
| stryngs | But "one true community inspired" list of .debs and settings. | 19:56 |
| stryngs | i.e. | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the mere pointing is a problem | 19:56 |
| stryngs | So why not guide them and us DocScrutinizer05 ? | 19:57 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: You have TONS of postings | 19:57 |
| stryngs | but they're scattered here and there and everywherre | 19:57 |
| stryngs | Sicelo has nice stuff too | 19:57 |
| stryngs | etc, etc, etc... | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't have any package we could swap for a new one and expect *all* users to get the update automatically. There's no such packet we have control of and could mess with it and everybody has installed | 19:57 |
| stryngs | Yes we do! | 19:57 |
| sla_erick_ | Hi there, is there any step by step or any tutorial that shows me how to run an example project in ESbox? Im running the virtual image with everything set up already, got xephyr running, but not sure how to run an example app | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: We make a new repo | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: In that repo we have 1 metapackage | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: If users install that one meta | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | new repo is a big headache and nobody has it installed and we can't make anybody install it | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Then our Depends: line in the control file, takes care of the rest | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: We can "point em though" | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I'm more than willing to host a repo, I already do for my own purposes. | 19:58 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I'm more than fluent with the meta concept, it's how I push updates for my own users | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could prepare a script or install-file or whatever, so users could do one-click-upgrade | 19:59 |
| stryngs | Just make it a postinst file in DEBIAN dir. | 19:59 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Again, revolve this purely around 1 meta deb. | 19:59 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: So... Would you be interested in helping me gather the flock of smart folks? | 20:00 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: If we put our heads together, we could invent some kickass n900 project | 20:00 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks to your post, I now know speedpatch is pointless. | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, we have no access to the basic repos (well, now we don't have *any* official basic repos), and we don't have a package in e.g. maemo-extras that every user has installed | 20:00 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Can we not put a package in maemo-extras? | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (gather folks) Imight help a little bit, but actually I'm more than just busy with Neo900 | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we can put as many packages in maemo-extras as we like | 20:01 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I completly understand, any help u can offer would be wonderful | 20:01 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I'm going to create a forum post soon on this idea, i'll link u when it's done. | 20:02 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for taking the time to listen =) | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw :-) thanks for the initiative | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sla_erick_: what's ESbox? | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some scratchbox of sorts? | 20:03 |
| sla_erick_ | DocScrutinizer05: IDE based on Eclipse | 20:03 |
| sla_erick_ | DocScrutinizer05: its included in the SDK image | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of, sorry | 20:04 |
| buZz | hmm easydebian is kinda shit :P | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sla_erick_: then otoh i'm not a developer | 20:04 |
| buZz | can i run a newer debian on my n800 in chroot? | 20:04 |
| stryngs | buZz: "try" | 20:04 |
| stryngs | I've been debating on trying to get docker rolling... | 20:05 |
| sla_erick_ | DocScrutinizer05: no problem, I understand | 20:05 |
| stryngs | How cool would that be. | 20:05 |
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| buZz | ^_^ pretty cool | 20:05 |
| buZz | but just a more recent image of debian would already work i guess | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | stryngs: how about providing a BM backup tarball with a completely configured up-to-date system on it, for now? | 20:10 |
| Sicelo | KotCzarny: do you know if battery-eye works with bme-replacement? | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could even convert that to a fiasco image for flashing | 20:10 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I have something semi-like what you mention, just not "backup" per se | 20:11 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I have users run 4 scripts from a tarball. In that tarball is what I consider my basic n900 image. It's not as "clean" as a backup manager thing, but that's because I also remove the need to worry about 'optification' and such. | 20:12 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: The installation is 100% offline because all the debs are stored in the tarball itself. | 20:13 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Simple dpkg -i operations take place | 20:13 |
| stryngs | Environment changes, gconf, etc.. | 20:13 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Where I'm lost at; is again, there is no "community consensus" on what's good package, and what's crap package, hence, my image having speedpatch and no speedyham | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooops | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~crappatch | 20:14 |
| infobot | methinks speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch], or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1328060&postcount=3325 [bug report] | 20:14 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo: dont know, im on stock firmware | 20:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~broken-packages | 20:15 |
| KotCzarny | nothing stops your from testing | 20:15 |
| stryngs | That's the type of knowledge I want to "imprint" on this proposal... Also, for the neo900, this will help tremendously because you'll have an "OS" ready to go for neo900 users. | 20:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hmm | 20:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~listkeys broken | 20:15 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'broken' by key (13 of 28): \broken ;; brokengtalk ;; jargon broken ;; weathercode broken bow ;; link broken ;; broken again shell ;; jargon broken arrow3 ;; weathercode broken hill patton street ;; broken dhcp ;; sid broken networking ;; give or take a broken dependency or two, blackbox ;; sid broken ;; \\broken. | 20:15 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: How's it going | 20:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mmh | 20:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hey | 20:16 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, i personally (and its not maemo community opinion) dont like cssu-metapackage idea, unless its bare essentials and other things in cssu as optional independent upgrades | 20:16 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: What are your thoughts on getting smartfolks like yourself to put heads together and "create" a true new "maemo" image. | 20:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | me smart ? o.O | 20:16 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: That's exactly what it could be, bare essentials, we could have other metas for other things | 20:16 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: i.e. | 20:16 |
| stryngs | n900-hackpack | 20:16 |
| stryngs | n900-bluetooth | 20:16 |
| stryngs | etc.. | 20:16 |
| KotCzarny | you know, the things needed for operation of device | 20:17 |
| KotCzarny | and not just 'media player' | 20:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Sure man, I get it | 20:17 |
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| KotCzarny | or image viewer or anything like that | 20:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: And I like that idea too, actually a lot better than my original idea. | 20:17 |
| KotCzarny | but as i said, its only my opinion | 20:17 |
| KotCzarny | some people things that metapackage has to cover whole device experience | 20:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Take the "1" meta, we'll call it "base" for now... The base meta will "STRIP" out all nonsense from stock maemo, and add needed essentials | 20:17 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Negative, other metas can do that | 20:18 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: i.e. n900-media | 20:18 |
| stryngs | n900-ames | 20:18 |
| stryngs | n900-games | 20:18 |
| stryngs | etc.. | 20:18 |
| stryngs | I like your idea KotCzarny | 20:18 |
| stryngs | That's what I'm going to start with then | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: how's *any* of that related to CSSU? | 20:18 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Any idea for a name? Every good package needs a name | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please read: | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 20:19 |
| infobot | cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 20:19 |
| KotCzarny | doc, i was referring to stryngs idea of cssu metapackage | 20:19 |
| * stryngs begins writing his proposal while the forge is hot | 20:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>It aims to deliver fixes which would be difficult to deliver through Extras (like core Maemo packages). It won't, however, bundle software which can (or could) be installed through the Extras repositories.<< | 20:19 |
| Sicelo | KotCzarny: have just been looking at the source. should work .. it gets info from lshal. | 20:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | You need to break the mp to move towards installing what you want, however, firstly all the dependencies of every package need checking and fixing. | 20:20 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: mp? | 20:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | metapackage, | 20:22 |
| stryngs | Ah | 20:22 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: I'm typing up this idea right now; it's too much to put into chat. I'm excited though, people are "thinking" about it and gears are turning | 20:22 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | the thing is everybody wants something different from Maemo. You need to get it more like a "normal" distro without the metapackage to move forward IMO | 20:24 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: I want what u want | 20:25 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: I believe I have the solution, which is why i'm writing it down | 20:25 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: I believe it will solve everybody's wants too. | 20:25 |
| stryngs | sixwheeledbeast: Without giving them "crap" they don't want | 20:26 |
| stryngs | i.e KotCzarny only wants "basic needs", done... | 20:26 |
| stryngs | Yet, for folks like myself, we want everything "hacker", our needs are solved too | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the Meta is a PITA. It can't be *that* hard to create proper dependencies for all the packages in MP | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I fail to really wrap my head around how 'normal' distros make stuff like kernel or dbus or X11 install, but it seems there's no black magic inside maemo couldn't do as well | 20:30 |
| Sicelo | what is the real *problem* that is being fixed by the proposed idea? | 20:30 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Maemo can do it | 20:30 |
| erlehmann | kernel, dbus and x11 is ok | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | systemd is where it gets hairy | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | the devs have this vision that it is updated in lockstep with the linux kernel | 20:31 |
| stryngs | Sicelo: I'm typing it up! | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | but the debian package dependency handle system cannot do that, i was told | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | you cannot actually depend on a specific kernel version | 20:31 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: a .deb file can do ANYTHING u want... | 20:31 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: pre/post inst/rm files... | 20:31 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: They are magic. | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | stryngs … if i download it from zombo.com | 20:31 |
| erlehmann | stryngs the problem is the dependency checking | 20:31 |
| Sicelo | without a clear understanding of what problem we're trying to solve, i don't think we're going anywhere | 20:32 |
| erlehmann | upgrading from oldstable to stable will happily lead to a system that has systemd and will not let udev recognize your mouse | 20:32 |
| Sicelo | ~xy | 20:32 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal | 20:32 |
| erlehmann | tell me about X! | 20:32 |
| stryngs | Sicelo: I know how to do X, I just want to get others onboard, or it's not worth it. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: aiui the "problem" is getting proper tools, speedyham, other stuff that's basically 'optional' onto the devices of users who don't want to cherrypick | 20:32 |
| Sicelo | :) | 20:32 |
| Sicelo | oh | 20:33 |
| erlehmann | speedyham? | 20:33 |
| stryngs | My problem.... I'm not sure what packages suck, and what is recommended, all i have to go off of, is CSSU repo. | 20:33 |
| erlehmann | ~speedyham | 20:33 |
| infobot | speedyham is, like, 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb | 20:33 |
| erlehmann | oh | 20:33 |
| stryngs | Sicelo: i.e. I've been rocking speedypatch, when, according to DocScrutinizer05; I'm stupid for doing so. Not cool, I should have never had speedypatch on my n900, but since there isn't 1 source of info for all things "Maemo Community", I wouldn't know it. | 20:34 |
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| KotCzarny | damn consumer dsl | 20:34 |
| KotCzarny | what did i miss? | 20:34 |
| stryngs | Sicelo: I want to gather the grains of sand, and build the castle | 20:34 |
| stryngs | Discussing the "idea" KotCzarny | 20:34 |
| erlehmann | make metapackages maemo-cabal-packages-recommended and maemo-cabal-packages-shitquality ? | 20:34 |
| KotCzarny | cabal? | 20:35 |
| Sicelo | erlehmann: that's what is sounds like to me | 20:35 |
| Sicelo | *it | 20:35 |
| erlehmann | KotCzarny the people in charge! | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no way "cabal", that's poettering infested term | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd | 20:35 |
| infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd | 20:35 |
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| KotCzarny | systemd is evil | 20:35 |
| erlehmann | harr harr | 20:36 |
| erlehmann | okay, how is your club called? | 20:36 |
| Sicelo | KotCzarny: why don't you use bme-replacement? | 20:36 |
| KotCzarny | lately i upgraded my x32 to jessie and now i dont know which way boot scripts go | 20:36 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo: because stock works for me? | 20:36 |
| erlehmann | http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/notes/systemd-linux.html | 20:36 |
| KotCzarny | and im too lazy to update to cssu | 20:36 |
| Sicelo | :) | 20:37 |
| KotCzarny | (when i get my secondary n900 i will, now i only have one n900 as my main phone) | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | erlehmann: you should see ~poettering | 20:37 |
| Sicelo | great .. that's why i am not so sure about this meta thing | 20:37 |
| erlehmann | ~poettering | 20:38 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal | 20:38 |
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| erlehmann | i know that one | 20:40 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder why so many distros jumped onto systemd train | 20:41 |
| erlehmann | KotCzarny it was either that or GNOME stops working | 20:42 |
| KotCzarny | i dont use gnome (figure that) | 20:42 |
| erlehmann | yes, but that is a *lot* of leverage | 20:42 |
| erlehmann | red hat really pushed its weight around here | 20:42 |
| erlehmann | gnome devs were a bit weasely around that issue, btw | 20:43 |
| KotCzarny | wasnt 'do one thing but do it perfect' *nix lead idea? | 20:43 |
| KotCzarny | in that sense systemd is turning 180degs | 20:43 |
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| erlehmann | AFAIK, GNOME 3.13.2 “temporarily” depended on systemd. as in “we will remove the dependency in 3.14, honest!” | 20:44 |
| KotCzarny | bye bye gnome | 20:44 |
| erlehmann | turns out the GNOME devs have funny ideas of what “temporarily” means (i.e. “forever”) | 20:45 |
| erlehmann | and then it was on, you either ditch GNOME from your distribution or use systemd | 20:45 |
| KotCzarny | funnily how much faster my laptop is without it | 20:45 |
| KotCzarny | and how much crappackages are uninstalled when one doesnt need it anymore | 20:45 |
| erlehmann | treachery! blasphemy! | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | hahaha :D | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | ; cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/use-sysvinit | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | Package: systemd-sysv | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | Pin: release o=Debian | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | Pin-Priority: -1 | 20:46 |
| KotCzarny | i do that too, but still, my initscripts are a mess now | 20:46 |
| erlehmann | a mess? | 20:47 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 20:47 |
| KotCzarny | something doesnt remount my / rw | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | krhrhr | 20:47 |
| KotCzarny | but this x32 debian is just a test bed anyway | 20:48 |
| KotCzarny | normally i use slack | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | erlehmann: many thanks for http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/notes/systemd-linux.html - awesome | 20:48 |
| erlehmann | :3 | 20:48 |
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| erlehmann | DocScrutinizer05 i have a less tongue-in-cheek post regarding the issue http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html | 20:48 |
| KotCzarny | is there english version? | 20:49 |
| erlehmann | its a shopping list of bullying behaviour | 20:49 |
| erlehmann | KotCzarny the post that DocScrutinizer05 liked is just “why is it GNU/Linux instead of Linux” mutated to “why is it Systemd/Linux instead of Linux” | 20:49 |
| erlehmann | it is mainly a joke | 20:49 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 20:50 |
| erlehmann | i can highly recommend to read the systemd source | 20:50 |
| erlehmann | and the pulseaudio source | 20:50 |
| erlehmann | it is quality comedy | 20:50 |
| KotCzarny | it looks like slack doesnt have gnome anymore in -current | 20:50 |
| KotCzarny | yay! | 20:50 |
| erlehmann | so back to the thing | 20:57 |
| KotCzarny | hehe, so systemd is just about shaving 5s boot time, when we have tux-on-ice, yet making it inflexible and buggy | 20:57 |
| KotCzarny | sounds like the right idea | 20:58 |
| stryngs | Can one of ya'll do me a favor and on your n900, please do: mount | nc termbin.com 9999 && df -h | nc termbin.com 9999 | 20:59 |
| stryngs | And post the urls? | 20:59 |
| stryngs | I need a non'stryngs system to compare for the post against | 21:00 |
| erlehmann | lel | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=cdMv8PMt | 21:02 |
| stryngs | word | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/45751323 | 21:03 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: that's hillarious | 21:03 |
| KotCzarny | which part? | 21:03 |
| stryngs | I actually refreshed 3 times before I got the joke | 21:03 |
| stryngs | Please refresh the page to continue... | 21:03 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 21:04 |
| KotCzarny | works for me in firefox | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 21:04 |
| stryngs | Oh, u actually posted it? | 21:04 |
| stryngs | I thought u were lulzing me | 21:04 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 21:04 |
| KotCzarny | that's my n900's df and mount | 21:04 |
| stryngs | http://www.picpaste.com/lol-Y1hkPikw.png | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | and works in links too | 21:05 |
| stryngs | That's what it shows. | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/45751323 | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | try links? | 21:05 |
| stryngs | Meh, I got it from DocScrutinizer05 | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | or any other browser? | 21:05 |
| stryngs | Anyone's system works just fine, just need something "other" than mine right now | 21:05 |
| erlehmann | i am waiting for | 21:05 |
| erlehmann | systemd on /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,name=systemd) | 21:05 |
| erlehmann | :--DDD | 21:06 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:06 |
| stryngs | Trying to make this as indepth of a writeup as possible. I'm only going to get one shot at this when it comes to people listening.... | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pastebin.com is JS infested iirc | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually nope, it's a plain txt | 21:06 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.ca/raw/3152192 | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | copy on pastebin.ca | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | doc: i always paste raw links | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah that's why | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | faster and no js, dont know why they hate stryngs chrome | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | as i said, link worked in links | 21:08 |
| stryngs | Meh, no worries, DocScrutinizer05's post was exactly what I needed | 21:08 |
| stryngs | I really thought you lulz'd me though, I busted out laughing | 21:08 |
| KotCzarny | stryngs, his system is cssu, mine us stock fremantle | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and it made me curse why no netcat on my N900 | 21:09 |
| Sicelo | cssu doesn't repartition anything iirc .. so they'll be the same | 21:09 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo, what about free space? | 21:09 |
| Sicelo | i doubt that's what stryngs is after :) | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it doesn't repartition but for sure has some changes to uSD card mounts | 21:09 |
| Sicelo | he's likely on mounts the way i understand | 21:10 |
| stryngs | Sicelo: you're 100% correct | 21:10 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder why pymaemo is so ugly in bind mounts | 21:10 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: I intend to fix that. | 21:10 |
| stryngs | KotCzarny: Quick, fast and in a hurry. | 21:10 |
| KotCzarny | symlinks would suffice | 21:10 |
| stryngs | This is where Pali will come in at too | 21:10 |
| stryngs | No, no symlinks, bind mounts | 21:10 |
| stryngs | I want FHS | 21:10 |
| erlehmann | stryngs what is the writeup? | 21:10 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: My proposal for a "standard maemo" "distro" | 21:10 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: But, I've gotta make sure I write it up proper, otherwise, nobody will care, and things stay the same. | 21:11 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: I will post before end of day though. | 21:11 |
| erlehmann | stryngs maemo 6? | 21:11 |
| Sicelo | 7 | 21:11 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: We can call it dogwater for all i care. | 21:11 |
| * stryngs goes back to writing | 21:11 | |
| Sicelo | 6 is Harmattan ;) | 21:11 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, but it will need repartitioned internal mmc, right? | 21:11 |
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| KotCzarny | call it fremantle reloaded | 21:12 |
| erlehmann | lel | 21:12 |
| erlehmann | can i choose the codename? | 21:12 |
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| erlehmann | call it “meatloaf mermen“ | 21:15 |
| erlehmann | that's an anagram of “maemo fremantle” | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's great :-D | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but actually it's not a veritable distro, it's just a collection of patches and apps | 21:16 |
| KotCzarny | doc, remember difference between chinook and diablo? | 21:16 |
| KotCzarny | also just a collection of patches and upgrades | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what Yast calls a category or group or theme | 21:16 |
| KotCzarny | anagram: did you mean: nag a ram? | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I seriously doubt that, since packages were not really compatible, no? | 21:17 |
| KotCzarny | i think they mostly were, i might be wrong, old time | 21:18 |
| KotCzarny | *times | 21:18 |
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| KotCzarny | http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=fremantle+cssu&t=1000&a=n | 21:18 |
| KotCzarny | Fecal Sternums | 21:18 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL | 21:18 |
| KotCzarny | Screams Fluent | 21:19 |
| KotCzarny | Scam Resentful | 21:19 |
| KotCzarny | Manful Secrets | 21:19 |
| stryngs | I take it Fecal Sternums would be at the "center" of the maemo world =) | 21:19 |
| stryngs | A shitstorm as it were... | 21:19 |
| stryngs | =) | 21:19 |
| KotCzarny | so many fecal options | 21:19 |
| KotCzarny | Fecal Men Rusts | 21:20 |
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| KotCzarny | erlehmann: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=fremantle+cssu&t=1000&a=n | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Camel Rent Fuss | 21:20 |
| KotCzarny | Camel Nest Surf | 21:21 |
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| KotCzarny | Rectal Mess Fun | 21:22 |
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| stryngs | I dunno, meatloaf mermen is kinda funny =) Almost ubuntu like in it's ridiculousness | 21:24 |
| KotCzarny | something that makes cssu spellable would be nice either | 21:24 |
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| erlehmann | okay, is it possible to create a bare-bones image for maemo? | 21:27 |
| erlehmann | like, with current tools? | 21:27 |
| erlehmann | one that can be flashed to the n900? | 21:28 |
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| KotCzarny | flashable? yes, fiasco? probably not | 21:28 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: Yes and no. flash and the apt-get purge | 21:28 |
| erlehmann | fiasco? | 21:28 |
| KotCzarny | rescueos is a nice base for arbitrary flashing | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | with ability to change partitions too | 21:29 |
| erlehmann | so how far can we get with a bare-bones image and mostly-free software? | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | or rsyncing things | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | ~fiasco | 21:29 |
| infobot | L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | o.o | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | ~literal fiasco | 21:29 |
| infobot | "fiasco" is "<reply> L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/" | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys fiasco | 21:30 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'fiasco' by key (1): fiasco. | 21:30 |
| KotCzarny | erlehman: fiasco is the image format used by flasher-3.5 | 21:30 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: Pretty damn far, the problem is all the info is scattered worse than a sandstorm | 21:30 |
| erlehmann | then we should start collecting ti | 21:31 |
| erlehmann | it | 21:31 |
| KotCzarny | initrd based boot + some scripting + mtd tools ? | 21:31 |
| stryngs | erlehmann: That's what I'm tryign to do =) | 21:32 |
| KotCzarny | 0xFFFF can boot kernel+initrd | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | mtd? | 21:32 |
| KotCzarny | internal flash is mtd device | 21:32 |
| KotCzarny | unless we talk about moving everything to internal sd | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | busybox can be init | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | i have an outlandish idea | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | use DJB redo for init system | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | i implemented redo in like 300 lines of shell script | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | :3 | 21:32 |
| erlehmann | so you could have dependency based boot with shell | 21:33 |
| KotCzarny | i dont mind good ol' sysvinit | 21:33 |
| KotCzarny | but redo/upstart work as long its consistent | 21:34 |
| erlehmann | yeah, or that | 21:35 |
| erlehmann | :3 | 21:35 |
| KotCzarny | does redo work with standard apps? (for example apache init scripts etc) | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | erlehmann: of course you can build a FIASCO image with all the nice tools in it | 21:40 |
| KotCzarny | he left | 21:40 |
| KotCzarny | he asked if it can be built with foss tools | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if fiascogen is FOSS | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check out: | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 21:42 |
| infobot | rumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a fiasco rootimage (aka COMBINED) with BM integrated | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and instructions how to build it | 21:43 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: o0o0 | 21:46 |
| stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: So we "can" build an image, that has more and less than what the stock pr1.3 comes with, and flash it Directly to the n900? | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 21:47 |
| stryngs | Intersting, I'm going to notate that | 21:48 |
| stryngs | Yet another tidbit of info | 21:48 |
| * stryngs hears "Dust in the Wind" playing softly in the background | 21:48 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 heads to kitchen for some calories goo and a fine latte mac | 21:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stryngs: yet another "info" source you as well could ignore: wiki "the optimal setup" | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty biased | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it might have valuable factoids in it, but you need to check every single line if it's actually what you want | 21:52 |
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| KotCzarny | Then I tried systemd again. I have configured my system for runlevel 3, but initctl insists on runlevel 5 for the legacy initscripts. You cannot change this behaviour because it is hardcoded in the C source like engraved in stone, seriously! This is exactly why I prefer scripts. | 21:57 |
| KotCzarny | could be the reason my initscripts in this systemd debian are a mess | 21:58 |
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| Pali | stryngs: hm... you highlighted my name | 22:04 |
| Pali | so? :-) | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it wasn't a request | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly was about [2015-09-04 Fri 20:09:58] <DocScrutinizer05> well, it doesn't repartition but for sure has some changes to uSD card mounts | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (cssu) | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: hi btw | 22:13 |
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| KotCzarny | Telefon od poczontuk urzywany przeze mnie wszystko działa prucz wyraźnego usb | 22:36 |
| KotCzarny | um, wrong window, sorry | 22:36 |
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| stryngs | Pali: Hi! | 23:22 |
| Pali | hi! | 23:22 |
| stryngs | Pali I don't want to repeat my idea a billion times, but here is the gist: Put all the smart maemo folks together and create something better than what we have. | 23:22 |
| stryngs | Pali: U are the Kernel developer genius | 23:22 |
| stryngs | Pali: Hence, your highlight | 23:23 |
| stryngs | Pali: I'm about 1/3 done with the proposal and will link u when complete | 23:23 |
| Pali | ok | 23:23 |
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