IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2015-08-07

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sixwheeledbeastVajb: PS4 but yes it is OT... ;)00:33
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rechargedfor some reason, a lot of software isn't installing on my n900, and from the logs, it seems like it has to do with python. why?02:04
svetlanaWhat is the error message?02:04
Oksanapastebin it, if it is too long?02:07
rechargedit's a lot and really confusing, but seems like it stems from python. I'm trying to save it but for some reason it won't let me access my files and save it other than in root02:08
rechargedI had my usb cable connected, oops02:09
OksanaBe careful with mass storage mode, especially in case of Windows computer...02:10
rechargeddon't worry, no windows here.02:10
DocScrutinizer05[2015-08-04 Tue 08:34:53] <recharged> I just ran an apt-get dist-upgrade on my N900 and it literally purged everything and killed itself02:12
rechargedshh, that was yesterday, I've reflashed since then.02:12
Luke-Jr>>> Emerging (2 of 5) media-libs/qimageblitz-0.0.6-r1::gentoo02:13
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rechargedany chance anybody knows what to do here? could it be a repo issue?02:18
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Oksanapymaemo-optify had an error during installation, so all other python packages depending on it complain that pymaemo-optify is not configured yet. | I do have fmms installed, so it should be solvable...02:51
OksanaI have pymaemo-optify 0.5, just like you. But my fmms is 1.3.6-1, not 1.3.3. Also, what is starhash-enabler?.. | Is it possible that you run out of space in /opt directory?02:58
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rechargedstarhash-enabler allows you to make calls while using the star (*) and hash (#), such as *67 (which allows you to make a call without showing your phone number). I may have run out of room, but I highly doubt it. I'll check, though. is that not reset when it's flashed?03:02
rechargedI also had an error while attempting to install starhash-enabler, but I don't think it was related.03:04
rechargedI was missing a dependency, I believe03:04
rechargedalso, /opt is 41% full.03:04
OksanaOkay, then it's weird that rm /opt/pymaemo/something had input/output error03:06
* Oksana tries to install starhash-enabler03:06
rechargedcould it be because it still has the data from a previous install?03:06
OksanaMaybe, something is corrupted? Remove contents of /opt/pymaemo/ and try to install fmms again?03:08
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Oksanarecharged: Input/Output errors are solved by fscking? If you have to, fsck multiple times?03:10
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rechargeddoes ls not work properly in xterm? and it seems like fsck isn't installed03:12
Oksanals works, should work at least.03:13
rechargedI forgot to run fsck as root03:14
rechargedbut ls only works in root, too03:14
Oksanals should work not only as root. Either you reflashed with something weird, or you installed something strange, or there is lots of filesystem corruption?03:16
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OksanaSo, you have fsck? Do you know how to use it? /opt partition should be relatively small, fsck-ing it should not take hours03:17
Oksanarelatively, as in, compared to MyDocs03:18
rechargedprobably some sort of corruption. the only things I've installed have been rootsh, starhash-enabler and fmms.03:18
rechargedI do know how to use it, somewhat.03:18
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Oksanarootsh is very common, fmms is common, starhash-enabler is not as common but nevertheless there are no reports of it creating filesystem corruption. What kind of error did you have while installing starhash-enabler? I installed it just now, without errors.03:24
rechargedI don't think it has anything to do with starhash-enabler, I've previously installed it without any errors. I believe the same problem followed me from a previous flash, I just flashed this device a few minutes ago and it's doing the same thing, not allowing me to install fmms (and a few other different software, such as advanced-power-applet). I figured I had just messed something up and decided to reflash the device, to see if I03:28
rechargedcould install the software I was having trouble with.03:28
OksanaSo, is it a problem of hardware, or of corrupted image you are flashing with?03:31
rechargedI think it likely has to do with my emmc.03:32
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OksanaeMMC is MyDocs partition, if I recall correctly? Feel free to reflash everything including emmc, if you have to. Also, checking MD5sums or something could help to make sure that images you are using are not corrupted.03:34
* Oksana hasn't flashed for a very long time...03:34
rechargedthat's right. I would if 0xFFFF supported it. I'll check the md5sum, but I don't think that's the problem.03:35
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OksanaDo you need N900's flasher-3.5 ?03:37
rechargedI have it, I just can't get it to work due to dependencies not available in debian sid (they're too outdated).03:39
OksanaOuch... If I have flasher-3.5, it's likely self-contained executable for Windows. Can you run flasher-3.5 from within a virtual machine of whatever debian version it requires?03:41
rechargedprobably, yeah. I could try it, I suppose. I just don't know which version has the libraries that I need.03:43
rechargeddo you think if I made a bug report for it nokia would even care? would they finally release the source code?03:45
OksanaUnlikely. Besides, it's probably part of the Nokia Mobile division which was bought by Microsoft.03:46
rechargedthat's what I was thinking, which is sad.03:46
rechargedalso, according to the docs, libusb (one of the two libraries I need) is packaged with the windows executable.03:47
Oksanalibusb is needed only for Windows and Mac, not for Linux: |
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rechargedit's needed, it's just that libusb is preconfigured in the kernel. and I use a bleeding-edge kernel, therefore libusb is a newer version than what's required for flasher-3.5.04:01
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OksanaIf you want to avoid struggling with debian dependencies, try .tar.gz file with flasher-3.5 , then the only obstacle remaining will be actual incompatibility with new software.04:17
OksanaOr, you could use virtual machine with older kernel? /not sure/04:18
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rechargedI might do the virtual machine option, but maybe later. I wonder if I could get nokia on using the libusb software without specifying their changes to it? it's LGPL. they only offer you a download to the source code of the original libusb, yet package libusb with the windows executable.04:22
rechargedthen, they would have to release the source code of flasher-3.5, right?04:23
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* Oksana does not know exactly how licences work...04:30
svetlanahow do you know that their windows executable is modified?04:31
rechargedI don't. that's the point.04:32
rechargedthey didn't release the corresponding source code so there's no way I could know. and due to the fact that libusb is dual-licensed as GPL and LGPL, I could claim that they used the GPL libusb and they would then have to release the source code of flasher-3.5.04:33
svetlanaah, that04:33
svetlanayou could compile yours for windows, and compare the md5sum or assembly04:34
rechargedI don't have a windows computer to test that on so somebody else would have to do that.04:35
rechargedand, how could I compare it if libusb is packaged with flasher-3.5?04:36
svetlanaif it's a .dll, then maybe; if it's within the same file then harder04:38
rechargednevermind, I just found their source code for libusb.04:43
svetlanahah! and it's not lgpl then?04:43
rechargedit's LGPL, they just released the source via download.04:44
svetlanaThe GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) is a free software license published by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). The license allows developers and companies to use and integrate software released under the LGPL into their own (even proprietary) software without being required by the terms of a strong copyleft license to release the source code of their own components.04:45
svetlanano probs, they don't have to release the flasher though04:46
rechargedyeah, which is a really dumb license from the fsf, if you ask me.04:46
OksanaWell, that's why Apache OpenOffice's source code can be used in LibreOffice, but not in the opposite direction.04:47
rechargedwhat do you mean?04:48
svetlanathey've been adding some better "recently"... GPLv3 does not have this issue if memory serves04:48
rechargedit doesn't, LGPL is just a bad license imo.04:48
svetlana is their official statement on it04:49
svetlanaUsing the ordinary GPL is not advantageous for every library. There are reasons that can make it better to use the Lesser GPL in certain cases. The most common case is when a free library's features are readily available for proprietary software through other alternative libraries. In that case, the library cannot give free software any particular advantage, so it is better to use the Lesser GPL for that library.04:49
svetlanaThis is why we used the Lesser GPL for the GNU C library. After all, there are plenty of other C libraries; using the GPL for ours would have driven proprietary software developers to use another—no problem for them, only for us.04:49
svetlanaUnfortunately can't comment on libusb. Do not know how 'unique' and worth clinging to it is, how much competition it has. :)04:51
OksanaLibreOffice can borrow code freely from OpenOffice, OpenOffice cannot borrow at all from LibreOffice.
rechargedI get the point of LGPL, I just think it was a bad idea on the fsf's part. if someone is going to make proprietary software, let them use a proprietary library/compiler. I don't care about proprietary software, to hell with it.04:55
rechargedbut I didn't know that about openoffice and libreoffice.04:56
robbiethe1stNo, you're missing the point. The point is that LGPL is to be used to get your free software into places which it would otherwise not be05:02
robbiethe1stThe compiler is just an example.05:02
robbiethe1stBecause the wider spread the (open source) software is, the better.05:03
rechargedbut if it's used in conjunction with proprietary software, then what would it matter? it's still proprietary. while if libusb was exclusively GPL, then flasher-3.5 would have to be free.05:04
robbiethe1stThe point though is that it /wouldn't/ be free. Nokia would have just used something other than libusb(a competitor)05:05
rechargedis there a non-free alternative to libusb?05:06
robbiethe1stI'm sure there is... Windows sure has one.05:06
robbiethe1stThe other option is that Nokia just uses the Windows usb libraries, and doesn't produce a Linux flasher version.05:07
rechargedI guess there's that.05:08
rechargedif GCC was exclusively GPL, would that mean that every software compiled with it would have to be free?05:10
robbiethe1stPossibly... which would mean that instead of using GCC, you might use ICC.05:10
rechargedoh geez05:11
robbiethe1stThe point is that the license was chosen, and then people decide or not to use it based on that05:12
robbiethe1stThere's no retroactive changing05:12
rechargedthat's true.05:14
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DocScrutinizer05no, GCC is a tool. The products you produce with a tool are not licensed by the tool's license05:19
DocScrutinizer05at least not under GPL license05:20
DocScrutinizer05this might differ for any libs you use05:20
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DocScrutinizer05but the binary produced by a compiler is no derivative work05:21
robbiethe1stWhat about the C standard libs?05:22
DocScrutinizer05[2015-08-07 Fri 04:20:23] <DocScrutinizer05> this might differ for any libs you use05:24
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DocScrutinizer05that's why libs often are under LGPL05:26
DocScrutinizer05actually LGPL wouldn't make any sense when the compiler you need to use to use the libs was inheriting its GPL to the binaries it builds05:28
rechargedoh wow, I just reread what svetlana copy-pasta'd earlier. the gnu c library is LGPL, I thought it said compiler.05:28
rechargedthe compiler is GPL.05:28
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robbiethe1stThat makes sense05:37
rechargedthe only thing that doesn't make sense to me is how to compile GCC if it's written in C++05:38
DocScrutinizer05recharged: I honestly doubt you can't get the right working 32bit libusb for flasher-3.505:40
DocScrutinizer05heck, it works on distros as young as 1 year (haven't checked newer one yet)05:41
DocScrutinizer05it's not like usually they'd break backward compatibility for newer builds of a library. If they do, they are mandated to change the lib name too. e.g. from libfoo to libfoo205:42
DocScrutinizer05plus you could even install different versions of a lib in parallel05:43
rechargedit is under a different name. libusb-0.1-4, while flasher-3.5 requires libusb-0.105:44
DocScrutinizer05no, the name is libusb-0 in that case05:44
rechargedthen I don't know why it doesn't work, but it doesn't.05:46
rechargedthis is what it prints when I try to run it: ./flasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory05:49
infobotxy is probably The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.
rechargedare you telling me to describe what actions I took to get to that error?05:50
DocScrutinizer05this error means there's no in your library path05:50
rechargedexactly what I've been saying05:50
rechargedit's not available in debian sid.05:51
rechargedI'm not sure what to do with this data.05:56
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robbiethe1stSymlink your version of to and see what happens06:00
robbiethe1stIt may or may not work.06:00
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DocScrutinizer05my /usr/lib/ is a symlink pointing to
DocScrutinizer05and I have 32 and 64bit libs of same name06:01
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DocScrutinizer05most likely you didn't install the lib correctly06:01
rechargeddoesn't seem to work.06:02
rechargedhow else should I have installed it? should I compile it?06:02
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rechargedbut I may have symlinked improperly06:04
DocScrutinizer05please ask in the support channels of your linux distribution. The way and pathnames libs are installed and integrated into system differs06:04
rechargedI'll do that, thanks.06:05
DocScrutinizer05your pathnames might be different than my stuff in
rechargedwhich distribution do you use?06:06
rechargedoh, then most likely, yeah.06:07
DocScrutinizer05also see `man ldconfig`06:09
DocScrutinizer05a common mistake to not call that binary06:09
rechargedthis stuff is way above my paygrade06:10
DocScrutinizer05your package manager should usually call it when installing the lib pkg afaik06:11
* DocScrutinizer05 glares at Nokia for not statically binding flasher-3.506:12
rechargedI still don't understand why they don't just release the source of it. if they're abandoning the n900 and maemo, they might as well.06:13
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: Without scrolling up through all the techtalk, why do ya'll care so much bout rebuilding/rev-engineering the flasher?06:13
stryngsHas anyone ever thought to give the CEO a phonecall and just ask?06:13
stryngsJust sayin.06:13
stryngsHell, I'll do it.06:13
stryngsTell me what to ask for06:13
stryngsI've got a silver tongue06:13
DocScrutinizer05threre's no more CEO to ask06:13
stryngsThere is someone, right?06:14
stryngsI can call Bill if ya need06:14
stryngsSo who would have access to what you need DocScrutinizer05 ?06:14
stryngsI'd love to be able to help out06:14
stryngsJust tell me what you want06:14
stryngsI'm serious too06:14
stryngsNot trying to be funny hahah06:14
DocScrutinizer05honestly afaik there is nobody anymore who could publish any maemo code. The code probably is lost06:15
stryngsSo.... What is it you want DocScrutinizer05 ?06:15
stryngsGive me details; let me work through my contacts06:15
infobotsomebody said closed was or, or
stryngsI didn't establish without the concept that I keep friends in high places when I do whitepapers.06:16
rechargedthat's really sad that they'd just delete all of the source code06:16
stryngsI'm betting it's not deleted recharged06:17
stryngsAgain, what do we need?06:17
stryngsSometimes, all you have to do, is just ask.06:17
DocScrutinizer05this has been tried for ~4 years now. And for all I can tell the last opportunity to get any code released closed ~1 year or longer ago. Now the code is no more, even when you would find somebody willing to release it, they couldn't06:17
stryngsSo you want maemo source code.06:18
rechargedI've tried what you're wanting to do with other companies. they won't give up anything, even for small, unmaintained software. source code is very important to them, so they can keep "muh proprietary trade secrets"06:21
stryngsYou're not me recharged =)06:21
stryngsI do whitehatting, so I've managed to make "friends"06:21
rechargedI doubt anyone could persuade microsoft.06:22
DocScrutinizer05much of maemo been done by subcontractors for Nokia and Nokia doesn't even have the right to publish it06:22
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin  RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin06:22
stryngsSource for those two files?06:23
DocScrutinizer05and they don't know which code been done by whom under which license, and they have no budget to pay lawyers to check all that stuff and negotiate with colabora et al about disclosing sourcecodes06:23
stryngsLawyers, legal and all aside06:24
stryngsWould the source for those two files accomplish something good for the n900?06:24
DocScrutinizer05stryngs: forget it! on that level you won't get anywhere. RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin even contained commercial songs and videos06:24
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: I get where your going my friend, I get it =)...  Just tell me, would that help?06:25
DocScrutinizer05but yes, basically "the source for RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" is most of the stuff we need, and sorry the media was in VANILLA06:26
stryngsLet me see what I can do.  No promises, but it doesn't hurt to try.06:26
DocScrutinizer05basically VANILLA is nonsense, not really important06:26
rechargedwhat all is in vanilla?06:26
infoboti heard maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh06:26
DocScrutinizer05VANILLA is data06:27
DocScrutinizer05COMBINED is code06:27
rechargedalright, gotcha.06:27
DocScrutinizer05however note that most of the code in COMBINED already is published and FOSS. Refer to:06:29
infobotmethinks closed is or, or
DocScrutinizer05flasher-3.5 however is NOT in combined, neither vanilla06:30
DocScrutinizer05stryngs: please don't quote the bot about ~flashing06:31
stryngsNo worries, I just want to know what you need.06:31
DocScrutinizer05refer directly to
stryngsIf I can provide something to the community, then I have fulfilled my role06:31
stryngsAri Jaaksi06:38
stryngsThat's where the breadcrumbs begin =)06:38
DocScrutinizer05SOUNDS GOOD06:39
DocScrutinizer05sorry capslock06:39
DocScrutinizer05they all will tell you they no longer have access to any sources06:39
DocScrutinizer05but sure, trying won't hurt I guess06:40
rechargedhas anyone in this channel worked for nokia?06:40
stryngsOne thing I've learned, about the higher ups in society...  They put on their pants everyday, just like you and I...  One leg at a time.  At the end of the day, people are pretty cool.06:41
DocScrutinizer05dunno who of them is still around06:41
stryngsAlso, the human side of things; if I created the n900 source code, I'd damn sure keep a copy.06:41
stryngsTake yourself DocScrutinizer05, I guarentee you have work you're proud of, backed up.06:42
rechargedwhat about anyone in jolla? aren't they from nokia?06:42
DocScrutinizer05they didn't since at no times a single person had access to everything afaik06:42
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DocScrutinizer05recharged: yes06:42
stryngsWe shall certainly find out06:42
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rechargeddo you think they have anything?06:43
rechargedalthough, if they do, I'd doubt they'd want to go through any legal troubles.06:43
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's a serious concern with all that06:43
DocScrutinizer05nobody is *allowed* to publish the sources, and probably nobody has a copy06:44
DocScrutinizer05for every single binary those who once hat a saying in this and think they still do (if any such person exists), will have to go through every single binary and check if they actually are the copyright owner06:46
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: for every single binary those who once had a saying in this and think they still do (if any such person exists), will have to go through every single binary and check if they actually are the copyright owner06:46
DocScrutinizer05as already mentioned lots of that stuff were done by subcontractors and neither Nokia nor the subcontractor holds sufficient rights to publish the sources, as I understood what 'they' told me06:47
OksanaOne small question: where can source code for osso-rss-feed-reader, latest version, be found? It's apparently open-source, but I can see only older version: Maemo repository seems to have only "binary", not the source code /everybody welcome to check and search/06:48
DocScrutinizer05so Nokia and e.g. Colabora would need to negotiate if Nokia (or Colabora) may publish the sources for XY. Then again same procedure for XZ06:48
DocScrutinizer05osso is core nokia stuff06:49
OksanaAnd osso-rss-feed-reader is not closed: and there is open-source of an earlier version of it:
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: The good thing, Ari is in San Fran06:50
stryngsSo he's a phone call away for me06:51
stryngsVersus yourself06:51
stryngsLong long long distance and all06:51
stryngsIt costs me nothing to have a protracted call with him06:51
OksanaMember of Jolla's Board, former head of Nokia's MeeGo division... Fascinating. | Actually, there is even open-source for an old version of Osso-rss-feed-reader-list , while the latest version is considered closed-source... | So? It gives binary.deb? It's not source code, right?06:57
OksanaAh, thank you!!! It's obscure: But it is here06:58
* Oksana got it through Package events; Releases did not have proper link at all, and I did check all five of them07:00
OksanaStill, it's not latest version. Have to dig more. Yes,
rechargedokay, so a quick question: if a software is around for 95 years, will it become public domain after that?07:03
svetlanaDepends on whether anyone inherited rights to it, I think.07:04
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rechargedwould the source code then have to be released if they didn't?07:05
OksanaIf source code exists and was published, then yes (like a book). If it exists and wasn't published (like personal diary), don't know, maybe. If it doesn't exist, no, you would get public domain binary.07:07
rechargedwell that sucks. there needs to be better laws regarding software.07:08
OksanaWell, it's like forcing book publishers to store their typesetting information (TeX, or whatever) for centuries, to release it into public domain. Reverse-engineering and OCR are basically the same.07:12
DocScrutinizer05excellent example07:20
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ZetaRrecharged: In the USA, at least, copyright length is currently 70 years + life of author, or 120 years for a work for hire. However, it has been retroactively extended multiple times in the past (often speculated that it was to keep Micky Mouse and other Disney works in copyright, due to Disney's driving lobby effort).07:30
recharged_copyright laws are so ridiculous.07:31
ZetaRFor all countries that agreed to the Berne Convention, copyright length must be at least 50 years + life of author.07:32
OksanaWell, I am glad that Three Musketeers are in public domain.07:32
ZetaR(and that is pretty much all countries actually in a position to enforce copyright)07:33
recharged_I want to move to a country which doesn't enforce copyright laws.07:33
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Oksanarecharged_: Odds are, you are already in it. Internet is miraculous for finding anything.07:34
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OksanaThough, I would not recommend trying to sell DVDs with pirated movies from 2015 written on them.07:35
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OksanaThough in some countries even that happens.07:35
ZetaRrecharged: Then you would most likely be moving to: A) a country with a dictatorial government that is considered rogue by most of the worlds nations, B) a country that is so poor or war-torn that their government cant enforce copyright anyway.07:36
rechargedI live in the US, so copyright laws are very strict here. sorry, I realized that I was running three instances of hexchat.07:36
rechargeddoes vietnam enforce copyright law?07:36
rechargedseems like it does.07:37
ZetaRAccording to a quick search anyway.07:37
ZetaRYou know what is really disgusting about copyright law? Take a look at this:
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rechargedthat's ridiculous.07:39
rechargedwhat a free society we live in07:40
ZetaRAlmost all of that huge dip is probably orphaned works: things that have no apparent or documented holder, and yet there is no recourse to republish them since the law considers there to always be a copyright holder, and they can just pop up and sue you for huge sums.07:40
stryngsThe problem?07:41
stryngsLawyers don't have the balls to fight back.07:41
rechargeddo _you_ want to get into that kind of fight?07:42
ZetaRA lot of lawyers aren't very nice people, and most of the ones that are can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.07:42
ZetaRRegardless, there is really nobody in the position to do anything, anywhere in the world. It is stacked up specifically to prevent repeal.07:43
ZetaRIf one country tries to roll back copyright length to pre-Berne Convention lengths, they will find that they are in a quagmire of treaty violations and furious lobbyists.07:44
ZetaRAnd that is assuming that a whole government can actually agree on doing so.07:44
rechargedthis is why we need copyleft07:45
ZetaRProbably the only way to get rid of it would be for a country to commit itself to being isolationist.07:45
ZetaRYes, exactly.07:45
OksanaWell, if they just put it to be bare Berne minimum, it would already be something.07:46
ZetaRIt would be a very slight improvement, but not much.07:48
ZetaRIMO, the driving force behind social and political change is the development of infrastructure (social, technical, or economic). If you drive the development of infrastructure through FLOSS, then you will have very positive effects indirectly.07:50
ZetaRLike the Internet has been, for example.07:51
ZetaRProjects like Fremantle or the Neo900 might seem small, but they are the building blocks of future development. Like Openmoko was for the Neo900.07:53
ZetaRSorry for the OT political rant. :)07:54
rechargedthe free software movement is probably the best thing I've considered myself a part of my entire life. you really do see a difference.07:55
OksanaWhat's the best RSS feed reader on maemo 5 currently is? /Trying to persuade somebody else to fix bugs in osso-rss-feed-reader by showing how frustrating competition is/07:56
rechargedI always liked resistance and feeding-it.07:58
rechargedbut they both had different options I liked that the other didn't have.07:58
* Oksana is installing feedingit feedcircuit feedhandler ... Thank you for resistance, will try it too07:59
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KotCzarnyrecharged: if you cant remove anything on any particular os it always means corruption and most likely partition was remounted read only because of errors08:16
KotCzarnywhich also resulted in inability to install things08:16
KotCzarnycheck dmesg and mount08:16
rechargedwhat should I be looking for in those?08:18
KotCzarnydmesg -s 999999|grep -i error08:18
KotCzarnyfor a quickie08:18
KotCzarnymount |grep ro08:18
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rechargednothing in dmesg, but a few things show up in the mount one08:20
rechargedshould I copy them to pastebin?08:20
KotCzarnymount |grep ro|grep -v /proc08:20
KotCzarnythis one08:20
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KotCzarny /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)08:25
rechargednot sure what it means.08:26
rechargedread only directory?08:26
KotCzarnybut i have the same for that mountpoint so its not that08:27
KotCzarnywhere did you get that error with writing?08:28
KotCzarnyrm: cannot stat '/opt/pymaemo/bak.GfbLYc/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/zenmapCore/DelayedObject.pyc': Input/output error08:29
rechargedis that from earlier?08:30
OksanaYes, from failed installation of fmms08:30
rechargedthat's what I thought. now I need more clarification on the question.08:31
KotCzarnytry rm now08:31
KotCzarnythen dmesg08:31
rechargedjust type rm, or try to delete something?08:32
KotCzarnyeven ls could fail08:32
KotCzarnyso: ls /opt/pymaemo/bak.GfbLYc/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/zenmapCore/DelayedObject.pyc08:32
KotCzarnymaybe your emmc is dying08:33
rechargedafter I do that, do you want the full dmesg or the one you wanted me to type earlier?08:34
KotCzarnyfor easy time: dmesg |curl --upload-file - http://transfer.sh08:34
KotCzarnyassuming you have curl installed08:35
rechargedit's not, sadly.08:35
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rechargedI just did this08:40
rechargedif you want more, I can get more (but xterm cuts off a lot from dmesg)08:40
KotCzarnycan you do it from normal term?08:41
KotCzarnywithout chrrot?08:41
rechargedmy xterm has always been in a chroot08:41
KotCzarnytry /bin/ls instead of ls08:41
KotCzarny(this wont free chroot but will free you of aliases)08:41
rechargedit says input/output error08:42
rechargedshould I get the dmesg?08:42
rechargedwhen I do the one you sent me, nothing is shown. the dmesg -s 999999 one. what should I do instead?08:43
KotCzarnyjust dmesg08:43
rechargedhow do I get all of it?08:44
KotCzarnydmesg > some-file.txt08:44
rechargedthat's what I thought, thanks08:44
rechargedI don't know what you'll get from this, though08:47
KotCzarny[18286.811706] FAT: Corrupted directory (i_pos 442939)08:48
KotCzarnyyou need to fix your emmc08:48
rechargedoh wow08:48
KotCzarnyi think rescueos has fsck08:48
rechargedwhat should I fsck?08:48
KotCzarnyand dont try to run it on a live fs!08:48
KotCzarnyor you make things worse08:49
rechargedcan I do it from my pc?08:49
KotCzarnyalso, if you have anything valuable there, backup first08:49
rechargedeverything is mostly backed up, but I'm gonna do a system backup08:49
rechargedis it safe to make a backup to the emmc or should I find a microsd to save it to?08:50
KotCzarnyyou will be fscking emmc08:51
KotCzarnyso its the other way round08:51
rechargedI mean, can I make a backup and save it there then move it to my desktop?08:51
rechargedbackup error occurred. what do I do now? go without backing up?08:54
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KotCzarnydepends how attached you are to data in /home and /opt08:56
KotCzarnycould be safe, could erase most of it08:56
rechargedI'll try again with a microsd08:56
rechargedafter this, should everything go back to normal?08:57
KotCzarnyyou will have to fix those packages that didnt install correctly08:57
KotCzarnybut its easy08:57
rechargedokay, good08:57
rechargedit's backing up to the microsd08:58
rechargedokay, so now that I'm in rescueos, do I just fsck mydocs?09:04
rechargedor everything?09:05
KotCzarnyfsck /dev/mmcblk0p2 probably09:05
KotCzarnybut you can fsck both09:05
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kerioit's silly09:08
keriojust tar, mkfs and untar09:08
KotCzarnyhe has vfat corrupted09:08
kerioattach to a computer and fix it from there09:08
KotCzarnyso he cant even rm that dir09:09
KotCzarnyrecharged: try: dosfsck /dev/mmcblk0p109:09
rechargedlogical sector size is zero09:09
keriothat's not an issue i think09:10
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keriohow did you even mount that:09:12
rechargedmount what?09:12
KotCzarnyhe means, maemo shouldnt boot09:12
rechargedso my device shouldn't be working right now?09:13
rechargedi just tried it again and it worked09:16
rechargedI have three options09:16
rechargedcopy original to backup, copy backup to original, or no action09:17
rechargedwhich should I choose?09:17
KotCzarnyunless you know what to do you can simply add -a for automatic repair09:18
Oksanadosfsck -a /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?09:18
KotCzarnyin the worst case just do full flash09:19
rechargedI would, but that was discussed earlier09:21
KotCzarnymissed that part09:22
rechargedthe device was last at 28%, is there any chance of it dying while doing this?09:22
rechargedit's alright09:22
rechargedit seems like you have to manually charge it09:22
rechargedfrom rescueos, I mean09:22
KotCzarnyif you battery isnt ill, you should be fine09:23
KotCzarnyor if you need phone, just boot maemo and charge09:24
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rechargedthis sure is taking awhile09:35
KotCzarny30gigs of data09:36
rechargedit is?09:36
KotCzarnyand appropriate amount of structures09:36
rechargedoh wait09:36
rechargedbecause the emmc is 30gb09:37
rechargedhow can this little device handle all of that?09:37
KotCzarnyone by one09:37
KotCzarnyby rereading fat09:37
rechargedwhat would happen if it died?09:37
rechargedwould it corrupt more?09:37
rechargedor just stop?09:38
KotCzarnyi dont know if -a implies -w (write to disk immediately)09:38
rechargedit's auto-renaming things09:39
rechargedso I'd assume so09:39
KotCzarnydid you disconnect it from pc without umounting first earlier?09:39
KotCzarny(in windows its called 'disconnect safely')09:40
OksanaHopefully yes, but I don't remember which switches I used. So, if you can, keep it charging while it fsck-s. | In Linux, it's Eject or something?09:40
rechargedI didn't, iirc09:40
KotCzarnyoksana: he is in rescueos09:40
KotCzarnyie. one console only09:40
KotCzarnyie. no bmc09:41
Oksanano GNU screen... Alright.09:41
drathirsync before disconnect mostly helps, and umount after...09:42
KotCzarnydrathir: cant sync on windoze i guess09:42
KotCzarnyonly way is to click that green arrow09:42
drathirlinux i mean sorry..09:42
Oksanarecharged is using Linux, if I remember correctly...09:43
drathirand yea m$ is hopeless only safe diisconnect/eject device is there...09:43
KotCzarnyoksana: in linux it's umount09:51
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KotCzarnyonce you umount partition, all dirty buffers are written back09:52
KotCzarnyand eject will probably not do that before (unless it's worked around/aliased somehow on specific distros)09:52
rechargedhow long should this take?09:57
KotCzarnywho knows, depends on count of the files and level of corruption09:58
rechargedcan it be finished in 12 hours?09:58
KotCzarnymost likely09:58
rechargedthat's all that really matters09:59
rechargeddo you think the device is charging while in this mode if the usb cable is connected to it?09:59
KotCzarnyrescueos doesnt enable automatic charging09:59
rechargedwhy not?10:00
bencohyou need to run a script10:00
rechargedI know, but I can't currently, right?10:00
KotCzarnybencoh, yeah, pity it only has one console by default10:00
KotCzarnyhmm, nice idea for rescueod, telnetd10:00
KotCzarnyand usb networking10:00
bencohI think we already discussed that here (with N.IN101 :)10:02
rechargedI feel like this is going to die far before it's finished10:02
KotCzarnyworth mentioning again (till it gets implemented, he he)10:02
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rechargedwell, it died.10:06
OksanaWell, now use rescueos again, but enable charging before running fsck, and use both -a and -w , just in case fsck does not get to finish it in one go?10:09
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KotCzarnyoksana, rescueos has only 1 console10:10
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OksanaSo, you cannot just enable charging, and then do something else?10:10
OksanaWould ' &&' or something put charging script into background?10:10
KotCzarnynever actually charged device in ros, don't know if it need any use interaction10:11
KotCzarnyand it should be single &10:11
KotCzarnyotherwise next commend wont run before previous finished sucessfully10:11
OksanaIn worst case, charge battery to 100%, then run dosfsck -a -w /dev/mmcblk0p1 as long as the battery allows?10:12
rechargedthat's what I'm doing this time10:12
KotCzarnyassuming battery is quite healthy10:12
rechargedI don't think it is10:12
KotCzarnyanyway, gotta run10:13
* Oksana has one entirely unhealthy battery which stores around 10% (20% at best) of the charge it should have stores10:13
KotCzarnyremember, in the worst case you can do full reflash10:13
KotCzarny(or can be emmc be flashed without other parts?)10:14
rechargednot with only 0xffff, that's my problem.10:14
KotCzarnyflasher-3.5 ?10:14
kerioyou don't need to flash emmc, really10:14
rechargedI have issues with it regarding libs10:14
OksanaFull reflash requires flasher-3.5, which has some obscure problems (unable to find libusb or something...) | I rarely use it, since I have two Polarcell batteries which are healthy10:14
KotCzarnyrecharged: run some livecd ?10:15
keriothe only thing 0xffff can't do is flash the emmc10:15
keriobut you can just load rescueos and mkfs manually10:15
KotCzarnykerio: what about file structure?10:15
kerioyou also get to choose your partition sizes that way10:15
rechargedI might try that.10:15
kerioKotCzarny: the vfat directories... eeh10:15
kerioi think they're created by something at some point10:15
KotCzarnyyou need at least user home dir10:15
KotCzarnyand opt10:16
keriothe stuff in /home gets completely wiped and copied on first boot10:16
kerioit's not in VANILLA10:16
kerioit's the reason you can't flash VANILLA without also flashing COMBINED10:16
kerioin the rootfs of COMBINED there's a file that signals that on first boot, /home has to be cleaned and rebuilt10:16
KotCzarnyrecharged: while n900 is charging, you can grab some 32bit livecd10:16
KotCzarnypreferably some older one (2009-2011 era) so it will use similar libs as flasher-3.510:17
keriofirst partition vfat, second partition ext3, third partition swap?10:17
kerioi don't remember10:17
KotCzarnykerio, he only needs vfat fixed afaik10:17
KotCzarnyanyway, im out10:17
rechargedI'll look for an old *buntu iso10:17
rechargedsee yah10:17
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drathirOksana: also depend on filesystem linux make sync time to time, and only buffered not writed data get lose...10:25
drathirchargin isnt controled by onboard chip+battery chip for control lvl of charge?10:27
drathiralso if linux see device You can fsck from pc, but i guess its less reccomend...10:29 2>/dev/null >/dev/null & works10:29
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kerioi still can't believe that nokia released a device on which copying a big file causes a reboot10:37
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bencohkerio: ?10:58
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KotCzarnyyeah, fsck on windows could work too11:53
keriobencoh: queue gets full, n900 becomes completely irresponsive, watchdog bites11:54
KotCzarnybad watchdog, bad! sit!11:55
kerioit bites unless you pet it11:55
kerioevery 30 seconds11:55
KotCzarnyattention bitch11:55
keriowhat's the correct verb?11:56
keriodon't poke the watchdog! D:11:56
keriopoor watchdoggy11:56
KotCzarnypoke with a stick11:56
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ShadowJKAsus did the same with a few android tablets13:12
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Vajbwhat you think? Will n900 die with 512gb sd card.14:35
KotCzarnylike in 'reboot'?14:36
KotCzarnymaybe it runs out of mem14:36
Vajbjust guessing will it work14:40
KotCzarnymost likely14:40
Vajbor do those cards need some more power etc...14:40
Vajbi just realised that they are available with reasonable price14:41
KotCzarnythere are cards with specific voltages required14:41
Vajbalso saw 1tb usb stick. Would be perfect for saving programs from tv.14:42
KotCzarnyusb sucks power14:42
Vajbbut if it's not stated otherwise, I guess those cards are pretty much standardized.14:42
Vajbbut if i hook such stick with tv, I guess it doesn't matter.14:43
Vajbsorry speaking of two things at once...14:43
KotCzarnybut i think vfat on 512G will eat quite a hunk of mem14:45
Vajbhmm no idea about that14:46
KotCzarnyfat is old14:46
Vajbyes, that i know14:47
KotCzarnyand prone to corruption14:47
Vajbnow i have 32gb card and it works fine so far14:47
svetlanaMy laptop specs are approaching that of a modern smartphone (again). :D14:47
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KotCzarnyfor most needs, 1.6-2.2G dual core cpu, 2G of ram and ssd drive is more than enough14:48
Vajbwell don't be sorry. My desktop is already ancient history :D14:48
* svetlana isn't :)14:48
Vajbi have 1,3ghz tb with 700 something mb of memory14:49
KotCzarnylittle burner14:49
KotCzarnyjust grab old thinkpad x4[01]/x6[01]14:50
Vajbbut with 512gb card i could store all my stuff in phone (and lose all at once haha)14:50
KotCzarnytrue, that14:50
KotCzarnykeep backups and rsync occasionally14:50
KotCzarnymaximum size of FAT32 is 512GB per partition14:51
Vajbis maemo treating it as fat or fat32 or does it even matter?14:51
KotCzarnyno one uses fat16 these days i think14:52
KotCzarnyand even fat32 is phasing out14:52
KotCzarnyscratch that14:52
KotCzarny2TB is the limit14:52
KotCzarnywith 512b sector size14:52
KotCzarnybut max file size is 2/4GB14:53
Vajbis 2gb maximum file size still there?14:53
KotCzarnyso forget about isos/rips14:53
Vajbah well most of my stuff is just mp3 libs14:53
Vajbwell not libs but music...14:53
KotCzarnyconsider using oscp, or trackerd will eat you14:54
Vajbi thought it tracks once and if nothing changes, leave me be14:55
KotCzarnyapparently it rescans on every boot14:57
Vajbalthough i only boot when i need to calibrate battery14:58
KotCzarnycould be some bug or specific device breakage14:58
KotCzarnyanyway, consider using cluster size bigger than usual14:58
KotCzarnyif you plan to store big files14:58
Vajbso when booted it will be hooked with battery14:58
Vajbnah nothing bigger than few mb's14:59
KotCzarnyit will make FAT smaller14:59
Vajbmight have few flac's tho14:59
KotCzarnybig files == anything bigger than few tens of cluster sizes15:00
Vajbyou are sailing way over my head right now KotCzarny :D15:00
KotCzarnyin short, anything bigger than 128k15:01
Vajband when formatting i can change cluster size?15:02
Vajbso should one use biggest alternative option?15:03
KotCzarnyif you dont like cmd line tools, you can do it from pc too15:03
Vajbor are there some draw backs?15:03
KotCzarnyonly draw back is lost space15:03
KotCzarnybecause even 1 byte file will take 1 cluster size15:03
KotCzarnyso if you plan to unpack kernel there or something, its not a good idea15:03
Vajbwell with 512 i thing i would have few gigs to spare :p15:04
KotCzarnybut if you mostly keep music/vids there, then it doesnt matter15:04
Vajboh now i think i understand15:04
KotCzarny16 or 32kB will be the best15:04
KotCzarny64kB can be unsupported in places15:04
Vajbone cluster is minimum take no matter file size?15:05
KotCzarnyand multiplies15:05
Vajbif it's less than cluster obviously15:05
KotCzarnyso with 16kB cluster, 17kB file will take 32kB15:05
Vajbso if i have like 1mb cluster and file is 2,01 it will take three?15:05
KotCzarnymax cluster is 32kB15:06
Vajboh lol15:06
KotCzarny(and sometimes 64kB)15:06
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Vajbhmm i think going with 32kb would be my best option15:08
KotCzarnyanother thing to consider is read-ahead15:08
Vajband now i just realized how come there was so big difference in map tile size and file taken fom disk15:08
Vajball life is learning. True that, thx :)15:09
KotCzarnybecause if file is fragmented or accessed randomly in little parts, whole 128kB gets read every time15:09
KotCzarnythough, bigger cluster size means lower fragmentation anyway15:10
Vajbor fragments are bigger15:10
Vajbit's like hardened glass, sort of15:11
KotCzarnybigger fragments == lower chance of bad fragmentation15:11
KotCzarnyyou can check how device will behave even now, if you have any sd card15:11
Vajb10 piece puzzle is easier to make than 100015:11
Vajbi have 32, but it's closing to be full15:12
KotCzarnyit would be interesting if bigger cluster size makes accessing sd card faster and less memory hungry15:13
Vajbare you speaking about devices ram or what?15:15
KotCzarnydon't know how linux vfat driver behaves15:15
KotCzarnybut on windows it loads big chunk of FAT into memory and keeps it there15:15
Vajbnever thought that card size could impact in ram15:16
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rechargedstarting fsck again19:37
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