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| ecc3g | those two screws in the screen half when you slide the n900 open, if they are removed, what comes off? | 01:26 |
|---|---|---|
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| sixwheeledbeast | ecc3g: you need to remove all six IIRC | 01:32 |
| ecc3g | okay... just curious what I can take apart without taking everything apart :D | 01:39 |
| bencoh | ecc3g: service manuals! | 02:02 |
| bencoh | there is a whole manual dedicated to "how should I disassemble my n900" | 02:02 |
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| Oksana | sixwheeledbeast: Yes, I got later version from extras-devel. http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace/ The one in SDK links to maemo5.0 repository - is it normal, or not? Looks like it's normal, just the naming is a tad confusing: Fremantle SDK vs maemo5.0 | 08:25 |
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| L29Ah | https://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/log/ i wonder what devices are they targeting | 11:29 |
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| bencoh | https://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem rings a bell ? ;) | 11:47 |
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| L29Ah | mkay, i got qemu-user working on a haswell thing; screw distcc, screw musl, all hail paludis | 12:04 |
| L29Ah | tho the glibc patch from easydebian doesn't look promising | 12:04 |
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| L29Ah | yeah the patch doesn't work for 2.20 | 13:20 |
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| JamesJRH | Hello. | 15:47 |
| JamesJRH | Can I write Maemo programs in Haskell? | 15:47 |
| L29Ah | yeah if you succeed at compiling ghc | 15:48 |
| JamesJRH | Okay, so basically if I compile GHC for ARM, I'm good? | 15:48 |
| bencoh | roughly (apart from the potentially missing sw deps) | 15:49 |
| Wizzup | JamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits | 15:49 |
| L29Ah | for a particular arm for a particular glibc for a particular float abi | 15:49 |
| JamesJRH | Okay. | 15:49 |
| Wizzup | the n900 does neon doesn't it | 15:49 |
| L29Ah | ~scratchbox | 15:49 |
| bencoh | it does | 15:49 |
| infobot | it has been said that scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB | 15:49 |
| L29Ah | it does | 15:49 |
| Wizzup | then just target armhf neon | 15:49 |
| Wizzup | not too hard | 15:49 |
| L29Ah | JamesJRH: ↑ | 15:49 |
| bencoh | Wizzup: no hf | 15:50 |
| Wizzup | what | 15:50 |
| bencoh | maemo is softfp | 15:50 |
| Wizzup | well, you can run armhf binaries on the maemo kernel in a chroot at least, afaik, but ACK @ softfp | 15:50 |
| Wizzup | tmyk | 15:50 |
| JamesJRH | L29Ah: Cool!!! | 15:51 |
| JamesJRH | L29Ah: That could help me in trying to port NixOS to ARM maybe (for the BeagleBone Black, initially). | 15:52 |
| L29Ah | report your results, i wondered about ghc on maemo as well | 15:52 |
| L29Ah | port nixos to openrc plz :] | 15:52 |
| JamesJRH | What's that? | 15:53 |
| bencoh | checking for ghc... no | 15:53 |
| bencoh | configure: error: GHC is required. | 15:53 |
| bencoh | trying to build ... ghc. | 15:53 |
| bencoh | I dont like the sound of it | 15:53 |
| bencoh | and it's not even funny | 15:54 |
| L29Ah | yeah you need ghc to build ghc | 15:54 |
| L29Ah | because it is written in ghc | 15:54 |
| bencoh | yeah, but ... not including a way to build a minimal ghc to bootstrap it is silly | 15:54 |
| JamesJRH | L29Ah: Okay, that's not something I'd be able to do. I'm a novice. You could ask on the nix-dev mailing list if you want OpenRC support. | 15:54 |
| L29Ah | you can cross-bootstrap it | 15:54 |
| bencoh | L29Ah: sure, but meh | 15:55 |
| JamesJRH | I know practically nothing about init systems. | 15:55 |
| bencoh | wont work with scratchbox | 15:55 |
| L29Ah | why not? | 15:56 |
| bencoh | wont work with autobuilder* | 15:56 |
| L29Ah | https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/CrossCompilation | 15:56 |
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| JamesJRH | 12:49:18 < Wizzup> JamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits ← Sure, but what I'm not so sure about it how to move beyond console applications written in Haskell. What APIs is a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell? | 16:13 |
| L29Ah | anything that works on your device is allowed | 16:14 |
| L29Ah | maemo is dead so you shoudn't matter about such stuff ;) | 16:14 |
| L29Ah | s/matter/worry/ | 16:14 |
| infobot | L29Ah meant: maemo is dead so you shoudn't worry about such stuff ;) | 16:14 |
| JamesJRH | That's cool what infobot just did, though if it's going to take up an extra line, why not correct the full line in the first place? | 16:17 |
| L29Ah | in my brain or how? | 16:17 |
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| bencoh | JamesJRH: cant do that with irc :) | 16:18 |
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| JamesJRH | L29Ah: Like rather than me saying ‘s/APIs is/APIs are/’, only for infobot to then go and repeat the whole lot again, I could save a line by just doing it myself straight-off: … What APIs are a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell? | 16:21 |
| bencoh | JamesJRH: maemo's main GUI framework is hildon, which is heavily based on gtk | 16:21 |
| JamesJRH | Okay! | 16:21 |
| bencoh | qt4 is also available on the platform | 16:21 |
| JamesJRH | I see. Is Hildon preferred? | 16:21 |
| bencoh | (actually hildon is roughly gtk with some specific stuff) | 16:21 |
| bencoh | hildon is "native", and has a smaller memory footprint | 16:22 |
| JamesJRH | I remember now that at some point in the past there was a switch from Qt to Gtk. | 16:22 |
| JamesJRH | Okay. | 16:22 |
| bencoh | but a lot of apps use qt, so you can go for it as well | 16:22 |
| JamesJRH | I like Gtk. | 16:22 |
| bencoh | qt is the main framework for meego/harmattan | 16:23 |
| JamesJRH | Though even then, I haven't yet made a GUI application in Haskell in Gtk or anything, so I should probably start with a desktop Gtk application and then see if it'll work for Hildon, or what I need to do to make it work. | 16:24 |
| L29Ah | ah so you actually wanted to say "stfu" | 16:25 |
| JamesJRH | What? | 16:25 |
| JamesJRH | Oh. To what? | 16:26 |
| JamesJRH | To who, sorry? | 16:26 |
| JamesJRH | To infobot? | 16:26 |
| JamesJRH | I guess so. | 16:27 |
| JamesJRH | But I still think it was cool. :-] | 16:27 |
| JamesJRH | But I was saying that, if anything, it's actually easier to up-arrow and edit my previous message than to type ‘s/old thing/new thing/’, so I might as well do it myself, if the substitution is preferred, because, say, not everyone understand sed notation. | 16:31 |
| JamesJRH | understands* | 16:31 |
| JamesJRH | I only do the sed notation to avoid clutter; personally I'd rather edit the line. But then I guess this is just something I don't like about IRC. | 16:32 |
| JamesJRH | But there are many things I do like about IRC, otherwise I wouldn't have been using it for years. :-) | 16:33 |
| L29Ah | s/././g | 16:35 |
| L29Ah | ah so you actually wanted to say "stfu" | 16:35 |
| L29Ah | s/././g | 16:35 |
| L29Ah | infobot: come on | 16:35 |
| JamesJRH | What are you trying to do? Make it repeat everything? | 16:36 |
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| JamesJRH | Huh, I've just notice that there's another mistake in that corrected line (“how to I”) that I could have corrected at the same time if I'd have seen it. I hate mistakes. >:-( | 16:40 |
| L29Ah | move to agda | 16:41 |
| JamesJRH | noticed* damn'[4~it! | 16:41 |
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| JamesJRH | I give up. My Internet's being too slow right now and using Irssi over SSH don't deal with bad Internet very well at all. | 16:42 |
| JamesJRH | doesn't* | 16:42 |
| JamesJRH | My WAN latency is averaging twice as long as normal right now, but with sustained peaks of a few seconds. It's probably just because I'm awake in the day for once, whereas I'm usually nocturnal. Looking at the pings, I can practically see when someone else on the network downloads something for a few seconds. :-/ | 16:49 |
| JamesJRH | Well, nearby in the network, that is; this side of wherever the bottleneck is. | 16:50 |
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| kerio | JamesJRH: might wanna try mosh | 16:58 |
| JamesJRH | So, in theory, I should be able to port NixOS to ARM for the Neo900, port Hildon and Dalvik to NixOS, and rewrite my application, Hexiano, in Haskell and Hildon. | 16:58 |
| JamesJRH | Sorry, this is following on from a conversation that started in #neo900. | 16:59 |
| JamesJRH | With some but not all people here. | 16:59 |
| JamesJRH | Hexiano is: https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.gitorious.jamesjrh.isokeys | 16:59 |
| JamesJRH | kerio: Yes, I plan to. | 16:59 |
| kerio | JamesJRH: anything that brings us away from scratchbox is welcome | 17:00 |
| L29Ah | why do you hate scratchbox? | 17:00 |
| JamesJRH | What? | 17:00 |
| JamesJRH | I was just told about Scatchbox, and, at a glance, it looks like a good thing. | 17:00 |
| JamesJRH | Scratchbox* | 17:01 |
| kerio | if would be a good thing if it was even remotely maintained | 17:01 |
| kerio | a huge part of what it does is replicate the running environment of the n900 on a computer | 17:01 |
| kerio | which is something that we'd get "for free" with nix, right? | 17:01 |
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| L29Ah | huh? | 17:02 |
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| bencoh | not entirely true | 17:02 |
| L29Ah | you get this for free everywhere | 17:02 |
| L29Ah | with qemu-user (: | 17:02 |
| bencoh | and some work | 17:02 |
| kerio | *lots of work | 17:03 |
| bencoh | ("""some""") | 17:03 |
| bencoh | ;) | 17:03 |
| L29Ah | what work? | 17:03 |
| L29Ah | i don't see no work | 17:03 |
| kerio | whereas nix *guarantees* that you'll have the same versions of everything | 17:03 |
| bencoh | bringing everything together | 17:03 |
| L29Ah | like make a tarball and move it or what? | 17:04 |
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| bencoh | L29Ah: toolchain integration (at the very least) | 17:07 |
| L29Ah | huh? | 17:07 |
| L29Ah | you have a toolchain available in virtually any distro | 17:08 |
| JamesJRH | kerio: I don't know how much that applies to architectures though unfortunately. I've met-up with the core Nix developers at the last 2 FOSDEMs and I'm not convinced about the determinism wrt. architectures. Nevertheless, Nicolas Pierron in particular advocates not cross-compiling, but I don't understand why cross-compiling has to be any worse than native. Scatchbox may be the missing piece here. | 17:08 |
| bencoh | it's not worse | 17:08 |
| bencoh | I strongly believe it's "better" by the way, but meh :) | 17:08 |
| JamesJRH | Scratchbox* | 17:08 |
| bencoh | I dont understand this "native build" trend | 17:09 |
| L29Ah | JamesJRH: check out http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch.html (; | 17:09 |
| JamesJRH | bencoh: Me too, in terms of efficiency on another architecture. Are there other reasons for cross-compiling being better? | 17:09 |
| L29Ah | er, wrong link | 17:10 |
| L29Ah | http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch-pr.html | 17:10 |
| bencoh | well I do understand that some people are lazy and dont want to mess with the complications of a crossbuild (and a suitable crossbuild system), and that now that they're given powerful devices, they just want to build on it, but ... | 17:10 |
| bencoh | still, *meh* | 17:10 |
| kerio | compiling *on* a n900 is definetely a lot more painful than compiling on a modern pc | 17:10 |
| L29Ah | yeah it's a stopper for modern huge C++ apps | 17:11 |
| bencoh | compiling on debian/n900 is slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly | 17:11 |
| bencoh | s/slow/dead slow/ | 17:11 |
| infobot | bencoh meant: compiling on debian/n900 is dead slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly | 17:11 |
| L29Ah | hmm, glibc-2.20 calls uname and looks if it sucks | 17:13 |
| L29Ah | and a gentoo ebuild says the 2.6.32 requirement is due to nptl | 17:13 |
| JamesJRH | 14:10:03 < L29Ah> http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch-pr.html ← Hey, yeah! Nix needs to catch-up in this area!!! Again, this could be the missing link. | 17:13 |
| L29Ah | i wonder if everything will break apart if i just remove it | 17:13 |
| bencoh | removing what ? | 17:15 |
| L29Ah | the check | 17:15 |
| bencoh | read the patches | 17:15 |
| L29Ah | i've read the url that was posted there, it's no good at worst or does effectively the same at best | 17:16 |
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| ecc3g | oh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contected to the main flex cable or something and not soldered? | 18:24 |
| ecc3g | s/contected/contacted/ | 18:24 |
| infobot | ecc3g meant: oh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contacted to the main flex cable or something and not soldered? | 18:24 |
| L29Ah | yeah it's on spring contacts | 18:28 |
| ecc3g | fsck this is probably why my earphone doesnt work anymore | 18:28 |
| ecc3g | "sounds" like a fairly common problem just like the usb port breaking. | 18:30 |
| L29Ah | sounds like a lot easier one | 18:34 |
| ecc3g | true | 18:38 |
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| kerio | ~pr131 | 20:05 |
| infobot | hmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ | 20:05 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Oksana: Probably not normal, (I would assume it should only be in SDK) but best to ask someone more in the know, fmg or merlin. | 20:43 |
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| * sixwheeledbeast looks at the time and realises it's probably 3am in Oksanaland | 20:44 | |
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| ecc3g | my n900 has a few screws loose. | 21:03 |
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| L29Ah | zsh: segmentation fault chroot . /bin/bash | 21:32 |
| L29Ah | fuck yeah no free glibc-2.20 for me | 21:32 |
| L29Ah | 2.19 seems like the last one supporting older kernels | 21:36 |
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