IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2015-06-04

*** chopix^ has quit IRC00:05
*** beford has joined #maemo00:19
*** RiD has joined #maemo00:24
*** sq-one has quit IRC00:26
*** RiD has quit IRC00:36
*** mrcaaattt has quit IRC00:43
*** lxp has quit IRC00:54
*** Pali has quit IRC00:54
*** konelix_ has quit IRC01:02
*** lxp has joined #maemo01:13
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off01:19
ecc3gthose two screws in the screen half when you slide the n900 open, if they are removed, what comes off?01:26
*** noch has joined #maemo01:32
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: you need to remove all six IIRC01:32
ecc3gokay... just curious what I can take apart without taking everything apart :D01:39
bencohecc3g: service manuals!02:02
bencohthere is a whole manual dedicated to "how should I disassemble my n900"02:02
*** mrcaaattt has joined #maemo02:04
*** florian has quit IRC02:15
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo02:25
*** titilambert has quit IRC02:52
*** NIN101 has quit IRC02:52
*** titilambert has joined #maemo02:52
*** lobito1 has joined #maemo02:53
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo02:53
*** lobito has quit IRC02:55
*** mrcaaattt has quit IRC03:00
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC03:01
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo03:01
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC03:05
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo03:05
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo03:45
*** LauRoman|Alt has quit IRC03:49
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC04:07
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo04:08
*** Humpelstilzchen has quit IRC04:14
*** Humpelstilzchen has joined #maemo04:14
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC04:18
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo04:18
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo04:18
*** heroux_ has joined #maemo04:21
*** trx has quit IRC04:22
*** heroux has quit IRC04:22
*** heroux_ is now known as heroux04:22
*** heroux has joined #maemo04:22
*** trx has joined #maemo04:23
*** pentanol has joined #maemo04:27
*** arossdotme has quit IRC04:35
*** arossdotme has joined #maemo04:48
*** infobot has quit IRC05:34
*** infobot has joined #maemo05:35
*** githogori has quit IRC05:52
*** githogori has joined #maemo05:52
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo06:01
*** lxp has quit IRC06:04
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #maemo06:12
*** RothSothy has joined #maemo06:34
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC06:35
*** RothSothy has quit IRC06:35
*** inz has quit IRC06:59
*** inz has joined #maemo06:59
*** protem has joined #maemo07:19
*** UNBREAKABLE has joined #maemo07:57
*** Hurrian has quit IRC07:59
*** protem` has joined #maemo08:08
*** protem has quit IRC08:08
*** shamus has quit IRC08:10
*** futpib has joined #maemo08:15
*** japa-fi has quit IRC08:23
Oksanasixwheeledbeast: Yes, I got later version from extras-devel. The one in SDK links to maemo5.0 repository - is it normal, or not? Looks like it's normal, just the naming is a tad confusing: Fremantle SDK vs maemo5.008:25
*** shamus has joined #maemo08:33
*** futpib has quit IRC08:38
*** mp_ has quit IRC09:20
*** Pali has joined #maemo09:29
*** noch^off has joined #maemo09:32
*** noch has quit IRC09:34
*** eMHa has joined #maemo09:55
*** protem` has quit IRC10:01
*** _rd has joined #maemo10:02
*** UNBREAKABLE has quit IRC10:02
*** sparetire_ has quit IRC10:02
*** mrcaaattt has joined #maemo10:05
*** freemangordon has quit IRC10:19
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo10:19
*** mp_ has joined #maemo10:22
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC10:33
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo10:34
*** pentanol has quit IRC10:35
*** freemangordon has quit IRC10:42
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo10:43
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo11:12
*** qwazix has quit IRC11:16
*** qwazix has joined #maemo11:22
*** flo_lap has quit IRC11:22
L29Ah i wonder what devices are they targeting11:29
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo11:35
bencoh rings a bell ? ;)11:47
*** noch^off has quit IRC11:53
*** _rd has quit IRC11:54
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo11:54
*** tanty_off is now known as tanty11:56
L29Ahmkay, i got qemu-user working on a haswell thing; screw distcc, screw musl, all hail paludis12:04
L29Ahtho the glibc patch from easydebian doesn't look promising12:04
*** eMHa has quit IRC12:06
*** _rd has joined #maemo12:35
*** geaaru has joined #maemo12:50
*** KotCzarny has quit IRC12:53
*** Hurrian has quit IRC12:53
*** Haudegen has quit IRC13:00
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo13:12
*** _rd has quit IRC13:19
L29Ahyeah the patch doesn't work for 2.2013:20
*** Haudegen has joined #maemo13:28
*** _rd has joined #maemo13:31
*** Ariadeno has joined #maemo13:31
*** HtheB has joined #maemo13:54
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo13:57
*** teotwaki has quit IRC14:12
*** _rd has quit IRC14:12
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo14:15
*** sunny_s has quit IRC14:31
*** erlehmann has joined #maemo14:34
*** beford has quit IRC14:50
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo14:57
*** KotCzarny has joined #maemo14:59
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off15:00
*** flo_lap has quit IRC15:02
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #maemo15:09
*** Oxyd76 has quit IRC15:12
*** _rd has joined #maemo15:16
*** tanty_off is now known as tanty15:18
*** jonwil has joined #maemo15:25
*** RedW has quit IRC15:25
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC15:27
*** RedW has joined #maemo15:30
*** Ariadeno has quit IRC15:37
*** darkschneider has quit IRC15:44
*** darkschneider has joined #maemo15:44
*** JamesJRH has joined #maemo15:45
JamesJRHCan I write Maemo programs in Haskell?15:47
L29Ahyeah if you succeed at compiling ghc15:48
JamesJRHOkay, so basically if I compile GHC for ARM, I'm good?15:48
bencohroughly (apart from the potentially missing sw deps)15:49
WizzupJamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits15:49
L29Ahfor a particular arm for a particular glibc for a particular float abi15:49
Wizzupthe n900 does neon doesn't it15:49
bencohit does15:49
infobotit has been said that scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
L29Ahit does15:49
Wizzupthen just target armhf neon15:49
Wizzupnot too hard15:49
L29AhJamesJRH: ↑15:49
bencohWizzup: no hf15:50
bencohmaemo is softfp15:50
Wizzupwell, you can run armhf binaries on the maemo kernel in a chroot at least, afaik, but ACK @ softfp15:50
JamesJRHL29Ah: Cool!!!15:51
JamesJRHL29Ah: That could help me in trying to port NixOS to ARM maybe (for the BeagleBone Black, initially).15:52
L29Ahreport your results, i wondered about ghc on maemo as well15:52
L29Ahport nixos to openrc plz :]15:52
JamesJRHWhat's that?15:53
bencohchecking for ghc... no15:53
bencohconfigure: error: GHC is required.15:53
bencohtrying to build ... ghc.15:53
bencohI dont like the sound of it15:53
bencohand it's not even funny15:54
L29Ahyeah you need ghc to build ghc15:54
L29Ahbecause it is written in ghc15:54
bencohyeah, but ... not including a way to build a minimal ghc to bootstrap it is silly15:54
JamesJRHL29Ah: Okay, that's not something I'd be able to do. I'm a novice. You could ask on the nix-dev mailing list if you want OpenRC support.15:54
L29Ahyou can cross-bootstrap it15:54
bencohL29Ah: sure, but meh15:55
JamesJRHI know practically nothing about init systems.15:55
bencohwont work with scratchbox15:55
L29Ahwhy not?15:56
bencohwont work with autobuilder*15:56
*** erlehmann has quit IRC16:11
*** norly has joined #maemo16:11
JamesJRH12:49:18 < Wizzup> JamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits  ← Sure, but what I'm not so sure about it how to move beyond console applications written in Haskell. What APIs is a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell?16:13
L29Ahanything that works on your device is allowed16:14
L29Ahmaemo is dead so you shoudn't matter about such stuff ;)16:14
infobotL29Ah meant: maemo is dead so you shoudn't worry about such stuff ;)16:14
JamesJRHThat's cool what infobot just did, though if it's going to take up an extra line, why not correct the full line in the first place?16:17
L29Ahin my brain or how?16:17
*** Haudegen has quit IRC16:18
bencohJamesJRH: cant do that with irc :)16:18
*** jonwil has quit IRC16:20
JamesJRHL29Ah: Like rather than me saying ‘s/APIs is/APIs are/’, only for infobot to then go and repeat the whole lot again, I could save a line by just doing it myself straight-off: … What APIs are a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell?16:21
bencohJamesJRH: maemo's main GUI framework is hildon, which is heavily based on gtk16:21
bencohqt4 is also available on the platform16:21
JamesJRHI see. Is Hildon preferred?16:21
bencoh(actually hildon is roughly gtk with some specific stuff)16:21
bencohhildon is "native", and has a smaller memory footprint16:22
JamesJRHI remember now that at some point in the past there was a switch from Qt to Gtk.16:22
bencohbut a lot of apps use qt, so you can go for it as well16:22
JamesJRHI like Gtk.16:22
bencohqt is the main framework for meego/harmattan16:23
JamesJRHThough even then, I haven't yet made a GUI application in Haskell in Gtk or anything, so I should probably start with a desktop Gtk application and then see if it'll work for Hildon, or what I need to do to make it work.16:24
L29Ahah so you actually wanted to say "stfu"16:25
JamesJRHOh. To what?16:26
JamesJRHTo who, sorry?16:26
JamesJRHTo infobot?16:26
JamesJRHI guess so.16:27
JamesJRHBut I still think it was cool. :-]16:27
JamesJRHBut I was saying that, if anything, it's actually easier to up-arrow and edit my previous message than to type ‘s/old thing/new thing/’, so I might as well do it myself, if the substitution is preferred, because, say, not everyone understand sed notation.16:31
JamesJRHI only do the sed notation to avoid clutter; personally I'd rather edit the line. But then I guess this is just something I don't like about IRC.16:32
JamesJRHBut there are many things I do like about IRC, otherwise I wouldn't have been using it for years. :-)16:33
L29Ahah so you actually wanted to say "stfu"16:35
L29Ahinfobot: come on16:35
JamesJRHWhat are you trying to do? Make it repeat everything?16:36
*** Haudegen has joined #maemo16:39
JamesJRHHuh, I've just notice that there's another mistake in that corrected line (“how to I”) that I could have corrected at the same time if I'd have seen it. I hate mistakes. >:-(16:40
L29Ahmove to agda16:41
JamesJRHnoticed* damn'[4~it!16:41
*** LauRoman|Alt has joined #maemo16:41
JamesJRHI give up. My Internet's being too slow right now and using Irssi over SSH don't deal with bad Internet very well at all.16:42
JamesJRHMy WAN latency is averaging twice as long as normal right now, but with sustained peaks of a few seconds. It's probably just because I'm awake in the day for once, whereas I'm usually nocturnal. Looking at the pings, I can practically see when someone else on the network downloads something for a few seconds. :-/16:49
JamesJRHWell, nearby in the network, that is; this side of wherever the bottleneck is.16:50
*** HtheB has quit IRC16:51
*** sq-one has joined #maemo16:55
kerioJamesJRH: might wanna try mosh16:58
JamesJRHSo, in theory, I should be able to port NixOS to ARM for the Neo900, port Hildon and Dalvik to NixOS, and rewrite my application, Hexiano, in Haskell and Hildon.16:58
JamesJRHSorry, this is following on from a conversation that started in #neo900.16:59
JamesJRHWith some but not all people here.16:59
JamesJRHHexiano is:
JamesJRHkerio: Yes, I plan to.16:59
kerioJamesJRH: anything that brings us away from scratchbox is welcome17:00
L29Ahwhy do you hate scratchbox?17:00
JamesJRHI was just told about Scatchbox, and, at a glance, it looks like a good thing.17:00
kerioif would be a good thing if it was even remotely maintained17:01
kerioa huge part of what it does is replicate the running environment of the n900 on a computer17:01
keriowhich is something that we'd get "for free" with nix, right?17:01
*** mhlavink has joined #maemo17:01
*** HtheB has joined #maemo17:02
bencohnot entirely true17:02
L29Ahyou get this for free everywhere17:02
L29Ahwith qemu-user (:17:02
bencohand some work17:02
kerio*lots of work17:03
L29Ahwhat work?17:03
L29Ahi don't see no work17:03
keriowhereas nix *guarantees* that you'll have the same versions of everything17:03
bencohbringing everything together17:03
L29Ahlike make a tarball and move it or what?17:04
*** Haudegen has quit IRC17:07
bencohL29Ah: toolchain integration (at the very least)17:07
L29Ahyou have a toolchain available in virtually any distro17:08
JamesJRHkerio: I don't know how much that applies to architectures though unfortunately. I've met-up with the core Nix developers at the last 2 FOSDEMs and I'm not convinced about the determinism wrt. architectures. Nevertheless, Nicolas Pierron in particular advocates not cross-compiling, but I don't understand why cross-compiling has to be any worse than native. Scatchbox may be the missing piece here.17:08
bencohit's not worse17:08
bencohI strongly believe it's "better" by the way, but meh :)17:08
bencohI dont understand this "native build" trend17:09
L29AhJamesJRH: check out (;17:09
JamesJRHbencoh: Me too, in terms of efficiency on another architecture. Are there other reasons for cross-compiling being better?17:09
L29Aher, wrong link17:10
bencohwell I do understand that some people are lazy and dont want to mess with the complications of a crossbuild (and a suitable crossbuild system), and that now that they're given powerful devices, they just want to build on it, but ...17:10
bencohstill, *meh*17:10
keriocompiling *on* a n900 is definetely a lot more painful than compiling on a modern pc17:10
L29Ahyeah it's a stopper for modern huge C++ apps17:11
bencohcompiling on debian/n900 is slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly17:11
bencohs/slow/dead slow/17:11
infobotbencoh meant: compiling on debian/n900 is dead slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly17:11
L29Ahhmm, glibc-2.20 calls uname and looks if it sucks17:13
L29Ahand a gentoo ebuild says the 2.6.32 requirement is due to nptl17:13
JamesJRH14:10:03 < L29Ah>  ← Hey, yeah! Nix needs to catch-up in this area!!! Again, this could be the missing link.17:13
L29Ahi wonder if everything will break apart if i just remove it17:13
bencohremoving what ?17:15
L29Ahthe check17:15
bencohread the patches17:15
L29Ahi've read the url that was posted there, it's no good at worst or does effectively the same at best17:16
*** Haudegen has joined #maemo17:30
*** RST38h has joined #maemo17:31
*** beford has joined #maemo17:35
*** Hurrian has quit IRC17:57
*** _rd has quit IRC18:01
*** ccnnjj has joined #maemo18:02
*** lobito1 is now known as lobito18:11
*** konelix__ has joined #maemo18:14
*** xes has quit IRC18:15
*** xes has joined #maemo18:16
ecc3goh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contected to the main flex cable or something and not soldered?18:24
infobotecc3g meant: oh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contacted to the main flex cable or something and not soldered?18:24
L29Ahyeah it's on spring contacts18:28
ecc3gfsck this is probably why my earphone doesnt work anymore18:28
ecc3g"sounds" like a fairly common problem just like the usb port breaking.18:30
L29Ahsounds like a lot easier one18:34
*** beford has quit IRC18:43
*** beford has joined #maemo18:44
*** beford has joined #maemo18:45
*** mavhc has quit IRC19:20
*** mavhc has joined #maemo19:27
*** N-Mi has quit IRC19:28
infobothmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or
*** panais has joined #maemo20:08
*** eMHa has joined #maemo20:17
*** futpib has joined #maemo20:19
*** konelix__ has quit IRC20:19
*** _rd has joined #maemo20:23
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off20:24
*** geaaru has quit IRC20:35
*** panais has quit IRC20:36
sixwheeledbeastOksana: Probably not normal, (I would assume it should only be in SDK)  but best to ask someone more in the know, fmg or merlin.20:43
*** webmind has left #maemo20:44
* sixwheeledbeast looks at the time and realises it's probably 3am in Oksanaland20:44
*** robink has quit IRC20:49
*** robink_ has joined #maemo20:53
ecc3gmy n900 has a few screws loose.21:03
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC21:05
*** robink_ has quit IRC21:23
*** phlixi has left #maemo21:24
*** robink_ has joined #maemo21:26
*** mavhc has quit IRC21:27
*** robink_ is now known as robink21:31
*** noch^off has joined #maemo21:32
L29Ahzsh: segmentation fault  chroot . /bin/bash21:32
L29Ahfuck yeah no free glibc-2.20 for me21:32
L29Ah2.19 seems like the last one supporting older kernels21:36
*** mavhc has joined #maemo21:38
*** _rd has quit IRC21:38
*** futpib has quit IRC21:39
*** sq-one has quit IRC21:47
*** eMHa has quit IRC21:50
*** noch^off has quit IRC21:53
*** MikaT has quit IRC21:57
*** MikaT has joined #maemo21:59
*** RiD has joined #maemo22:11
*** sparetire_ has joined #maemo22:22
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo22:23
*** peetah has quit IRC22:26
*** Andril has joined #maemo22:30
*** Andril has quit IRC22:36
*** peetah has joined #maemo22:37
*** eMHa has joined #maemo22:45
*** Haudegen has quit IRC22:49
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:04
*** andril has joined #maemo23:06
*** Haudegen has joined #maemo23:12
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo23:15
*** flo_lap is now known as florian23:23
*** andril has quit IRC23:32

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!