IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2015-03-04

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Oksana	Does anybody know that Mugen offers free worldwide shipping, for the next 4 hours? http://mugen.co/nokia/nokia-n900.html	04:18
Oksana	Not just N900, but all and any of their products?	04:20
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Oksana	Such as, N810: http://mugen.co/nokia/nokia-n810/akkumuljator-povyshennoj-emkosti-mugen-power-3600mah-dlja-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-in-blue.html	04:26
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kopple	hello, does anyone know if Nokia Panorama for maemo is still available somewhere for download?	04:27
kopple	the Ovi Store page for it was deleted	04:28
Oksana	kopple: In the worst case, I will upload it somewhere...	04:28
kopple	that would be very appreciated	04:29
kopple	could it be added to maemo's community repositories?	04:29
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Oksana	kopple: same file twice : ( ;-) Not me) https://openrepos.net/content/koenigseggccgt/panorama https://openrepos.net/content/hooddy/nokia-panorama Thanks to Estel for pointer :-) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63215&page=11	04:33
Oksana	kopple: I think that it could be added into non-free repositories at maemo.org , but it depends on legalities (re-distribution rights, and such...)	04:33
kopple	oh that's fantastic! I didn't find that forum thread	04:34
kopple	well, if Nokia cares so much about it that they just delete their page on Ovi Store do you think they would really mind :D ?	04:34
kopple	I know though, why should we risk? :)	04:35
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kopple	thanks a lot! I look forward to using this app	04:35
Oksana	Who has the rights to this software: Nokia or Microsoft? Probably, Nokia still... Okay, we could ask them...	04:35
kopple	you're right, hard to realize how closely tangled these two companies have become	04:36
Oksana	kopple: It's great, but I still marvel at how it's 1D panorama. 2D panorama would have much more potential...	04:36
* Oksana is checking version of Panorama at my N900...		04:36
kopple	I still feel Nokia as the good technology, maybe it's time to think again	04:36
kopple	2D would be nice but 1D is more than fine for me	04:37
Oksana	It's great technology, yes. But a bit of open-sourcing would help...	04:37
kopple	after all I would never align things the right way	04:37
kopple	Maemo was the only possible tradeoff in the market of mobile phones nowadays I think. I just wouldn't buy any other phone other than another n900	04:38
Oksana	The program should align things by itself, and when it doubt, ask you to identify "same" points at two photographs. Once it knows which points are same, its algorithms can align perfectly. It just has problems figuring out which points are same...	04:38
kopple	great indeed	04:39
robbiethe1st	I still haven't found a replacement for my n900...	04:39
kopple	nor have I, so I hope it will last forever	04:39
robbiethe1st	Heck, I still haven't found a browser as good as the stock one.	04:39
Oksana	Like, a program can perfectly recognise a letter from a blurry picture... But human help is needed to separate letters from each other.	04:39
robbiethe1st	The 'mouse mode' is /extremely/ useful.	04:39
Oksana	/Should does not equal Would/	04:40
kopple	all it'd need for me to stay useful and usable is browser updates but I'll do without them for now	04:40
ecc3g	anyone tried the mugen BL5J? Is it worth the $44.50 ?	04:41
robbiethe1st	Is it twice the physical size?	04:41
Oksana	What do you think about Neo900? And, kopple , about browser updates : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94107	04:41
Oksana	Nay	04:41
robbiethe1st	If it's the stock battery size, no. If it's the larger battery, maby	04:42
ecc3g	no, this is the 1.6Ah one they're offering now...	04:42
* Oksana is looking up...		04:42
kopple	I've heard of Neo900 and it sounds very cool	04:42
Oksana	ecc3g: It looks better than PolarCell. More expensive, too, though...	04:42
kopple	I just live on the other side of the world and shipping my phone wouldn't be very easy	04:43
ecc3g	Wondering if it lives up to the capacity it claims or not...then again, it's still way expensive	04:43
Oksana	kopple: I live in Australia...	04:43
kopple	Oksana, closer to the states than Italy ;)	04:43
ecc3g	been wondering if i should get the 2.4Ah kit because I need a new battery door, the camera shutter is broken.	04:43
robbiethe1st	I would say that physical size is a very good corrilator with performance	04:44
Oksana	...and I pre-ordered Neo900, nevertheless... /They are in Germany, not USA.../	04:44
kopple	ohhh really??? GERMANY?	04:44
robbiethe1st	even cheap batterys aren't much below the nominal for a given physical size	04:44
kopple	:O	04:44
kopple	I could have a walk and get physically there	04:44
kopple	you made me a happy man :D	04:44
Oksana	:-) A long walk, though...	04:44
kopple	I don't know why I recalled they were American guys	04:44
ecc3g	the really cheap batteries, you don't know what you'll get...	04:45
kopple	well, shipping things within the European Union is way easier than off-shore dispatching	04:45
Oksana	Hildon Foundation used to be in USA... They are now moving to Germany, too: MCeV...	04:45
ecc3g	I guess I just need a new battery door, I still have another nokia bl5j and a japod bl5j...	04:45
robbiethe1st	ecc3g, I've gotten at least one knock-off, it worked OK	04:45
Oksana	kopple: pre-order one, or two? Minimum pre-order is 100 EUR per-device...	04:46
kopple	I would definitely buy a further n900 to send over to them	04:46
ecc3g	I've gotten knockoffs for other phones, they left much to be desired...	04:46
robbiethe1st	I have a japod bl-5j which I paid $13 for, and that was a fair price... it's pretty good	04:46
kopple	what does knock-off mean?	04:46
robbiethe1st	a low quality copy	04:47
Oksana	As in, if device costs 700EUR altogether, you pre-order with 100EUR, and pay 600EUR later, or you pre-order with 300EUR and pay 400EUR later - approximately...	04:47
robbiethe1st	that appears to be the real thing	04:47
kopple	I never changed my battery. Do you think I should? I mean... mine works but maybe that's the cause of the sluggish behavior of my n900	04:47
robbiethe1st	No... battery has no affect on anything until it runs out of power	04:47
Oksana	kopple: Many programs? Widgets? Photographs? Audio files? Video files? Something?..	04:48
ecc3g	only need to replace it is if you have to charge it more often than before...	04:48
ecc3g	(and dislike that fact...)	04:48
robbiethe1st	Yeah	04:48
robbiethe1st	After a few years, it won't last nearly as long	04:48
robbiethe1st	if you are using it every day	04:48
Oksana	Many photographs-videos-audio make tracker sluggish - the one which generates thumbnails for Gallery, and such...	04:48
kopple	Oksana if that is the kind of prices we're talking about I'm not going to buy one. My n900 is sluggish at browsing things mainly, and it got overall slower with the time. Less responsive in a way that I can sense while random using..	04:49
MonkeyofDoom	my opinion is that tracker is pretty much worthless	04:49
robbiethe1st	Are you using swappolube?	04:49
kopple	I don't think I have many photos, around 100 I guess. I have about 25GBs of database dumps from wikipedia though	04:50
MonkeyofDoom	no	04:50
kopple	swappolube? No.. just regular swap	04:50
robbiethe1st	that program provides tweaks and such	04:50
robbiethe1st	it helps.	04:50
kopple	Okay, on my download list next time I switch on wi-fi	04:50
robbiethe1st	There is some z-ram-swap thing out there which might help as well, I haven't tried it	04:51
kopple	I was going to buy a super fast SD card to use for swap but then I thought it would have been to hard for me to set up and possibly made no difference so I spared some cash for other necessities	04:52
robbiethe1st	Yeah, it won't help enough to matter	04:53
kopple	I should overclock I think but I love my 4 days lasting battery	04:53
robbiethe1st	a lot of fast sd cards are also slower at random reads/writes, which is what you need for swap	04:53
kopple	robbiethe1st there are some very insightful benchmarks on tomshardware	04:53
robbiethe1st	If your CPU was going full speed all the time, it wouldn't last even 2 hours, let alone 4 days	04:54
kopple	well from 600MHz to, say, 800MHz wouldn't be bad	04:54
robbiethe1st	It's idling 99% of the time	04:54
robbiethe1st	If you can get the voltages set right, so you don't crash, 950mhz is where you can usually go safely.	04:55
kopple	but I prioritize battery over performance	04:55
Oksana	kopple : 700EUR is for whole device. If you already have N900 outside, then NeoN board is 550EUR, approximately... /Neo900 is going to be faster... 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, hopefully, 64GB eMMC... http://neo900.org/specs /	04:55
robbiethe1st	In that it will run at that without overheating, continuously. And remember, unless you are actively using it, it doesn't affect the battery	04:55
kopple	thanks Oksana, it's better to know	04:56
robbiethe1st	The CPU is switched off for a signifigant fraction of each second when idle. Like literally off.	04:56
Oksana	What's the point of over-clocking if you are not actively using it?..	04:56
kopple	robbiethe1st: sounds alluring, you know :) ?	04:56
robbiethe1st	I've been doing it for 4-5 years now?	04:56
kopple	Oksana when dealing with those huge database dumps it could help	04:57
robbiethe1st	When you browse the web or do something, you want the extra speed. The extra power it takes is tiny compared to, say, the screen.	04:57
kopple	I also have something like 20 to 30 dictionaries that work simultaneously	04:57
kopple	my screen brightness is always set to the mininum level for battery's sake	04:58
robbiethe1st	When you aren't using it, the cpu is idling and not running OC'd anyway	04:58
Oksana	Web-speed: block the ads, and cookies, and JS, and CSS, and all such beautification, except for trusted few...	04:58
robbiethe1st	swappolube. Seriously.	04:58
Oksana	kopple: Screen brightness: same...	04:58
erlehmann	what does it?	04:58
robbiethe1st	Changes swap perameters	04:58
robbiethe1st	to more usable defaults	04:58
kopple	swappolube is hard to use?	04:58
kopple	I'm no tech-genius, just enthusiast that loves his little friend n900 and means no harm to it	04:59
robbiethe1st	Not sure... I think it has some defaults and you just press 'install defaults'	04:59
robbiethe1st	unless you want to change things later	04:59
kopple	Oksana, I have low speed at browsing even when using offline files	05:00
kopple	I would love to use tiddlywiki and just can't afford that :(	05:00
robbiethe1st	Crank the CPU speed up	05:01
kopple	(with no scripts in it, no images either)	05:01
robbiethe1st	What you do is use PK, and crank it up. Then run a video in mplayer and see if it crashes. If it crashes or your computer crashes, up the voltages	05:01
kopple	robbiethe1st: I already have the power kernel installed, I need an actual program from the repositories I guess	05:02
robbiethe1st	You just ajust things until it runs at the speed you want, with the minimum voltage needed to not produce decode errors/crashing, then up it by 2 or 3 values	05:02
Oksana	kopple: Not sure whether it helps or not: http://wiki.maemo.org/MicroB_tweaks http://wiki.maemo.org/Location_bar_tricks http://wiki.maemo.org/Internet_bookmarklets http://wiki.maemo.org/Internet_custom_styles	05:02
robbiethe1st	https://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking	05:02
kopple	thanks for the help	05:04
robbiethe1st	https://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#Manual_Undervolting_.28Legacy.29 is what I'm talking about	05:04
robbiethe1st	I'm oldschool I guess...	05:04
kopple	all these things sound so intriguing	05:05
robbiethe1st	And, really... I've had three different N900s since I got my first one, and once I got the voltages dialed in I've never had crashing issues. It'll run for months between reboots	05:05
kopple	I hope I will be up to them when I try	05:05
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robbiethe1st	My N900s have failed due to USB port problems, the rest of the device is fine.	05:06
kopple	mine hasn't failed in two years and I only flashed it once to get rid of the previous owner's possible tweaks	05:06
Oksana	:-)	05:07
kopple	when I get it to work a bit faster maybe I will buy some SD for further storage and have my music library in it	05:07
robbiethe1st	I'm biased, but I have backupmenu installed, so I can just reimage things if it gets corrupted	05:08
robbiethe1st	of to move to a new device etc.	05:08
kopple	speakers are great, and when headphones are plugged in, as with any Nokia, you get a decent sound	05:08
Oksana	robbiethe1st: Do you still have the old devices? Would you like new microUSB ports, to try soldering them?	05:08
robbiethe1st	Yes, and already tried. Several times, infact.	05:09
kopple	robbiethe1st, I don't know backupmenu. I still haven't found a way to backup my entire device emmc	05:09
robbiethe1st	At this point I'm going to have to use extremely thin wire and run leads from the USB port to the fuse chip and other places	05:09
robbiethe1st	backupmenu.	05:09
robbiethe1st	It'	05:10
robbiethe1st	It's in extras-testing at least	05:10
robbiethe1st	Gives you rootfs/optfs backup ability(sd and MyDocs are exposed via usb already)	05:10
robbiethe1st	as well as a 'offline' root console you can backup with, USB mass storage mode for the optfs, etc.	05:11
kopple	oh my god, how can it happen? That's unbelievably nice to hear	05:11
robbiethe1st	Because I wrote it?	05:11
kopple	:D	05:12
kopple	oh god, congrats	05:12
robbiethe1st	I had the same damned problems myself, and figured it out. Back when I had free time	05:12
kopple	I'm writing down things from this IRC session. Tomorrow I will have my n900 change the way it's used to existing.	05:13
kopple	But first I need to backup things	05:13
robbiethe1st	The great thing is you can backup the root/opt(which is the entire OS, aside from the kernel) and backup.restore it later	05:13
robbiethe1st	so you can just 'reset' back to a known point	05:13
kopple	does it restore at reboot?	05:14
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robbiethe1st	No	05:14
robbiethe1st	The way it works is if you have the keyboard open when (re)booting your N900, you get the backupmenu gui	05:15
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kopple	since you wrote it, do you know of any documentation file somewhere for reference?	05:15
robbiethe1st	if it's closed, you get Maemo	05:15
kopple	very cunning	05:16
robbiethe1st	There's a topic http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975	05:16
robbiethe1st	Wow... 4.5 years ago... been a long time	05:17
kopple	reminds me of clonezilla in a way..	05:17
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kopple	may it make flashing your phone harder in the future?	05:18
kopple	I mean, since it deals with the booting process itself	05:18
robbiethe1st	No	05:19
kopple	and you need to press the U key when flashing	05:19
robbiethe1st	No, you don't	05:19
robbiethe1st	You have the flasher started, it says waiting. With the N900 /off/, plug it into usb	05:19
kopple	I recall having to keep pressing a key for the flasher to connect	05:19
robbiethe1st	It starts to flash	05:19
kopple	maybe it wasn't necessary	05:20
kopple	but I did, I'm sure	05:20
robbiethe1st	The n900 is damn near foolproof, it's nigh impossible to break.	05:20
robbiethe1st	it's always reflashable	05:20
kopple	Okay, tomorrow I will backup all MyDocs folder and double check my sms and phonebook are actually there	05:21
kopple	then will install backupmenu to get a whole image of my OS	05:21
kopple	and then will overclock the hell out of my arm	05:22
robbiethe1st	Yup	05:22
robbiethe1st	You should be able to get it up to 1150mhz if you try, but 950 is about where you want to leave it long-term(as a max setting)	05:22
kopple	no, I will just overclock it till it responds faster enough without going past 950MHz and as long as I'm able to set up automatic undervolting	05:22
kopple	indeed	05:23
robbiethe1st	I've always set it up as speed-based undervolting; each speed gets it's own voltage. The governor will automatically lower the speed based on load, so you get undervolting that way	05:23
robbiethe1st	I have no experience with this smartreflex thing, so you're on your own with that.	05:24
kopple	I still have to study the pages you linked to me	05:24
kopple	I'm new to overclocking phones in general	05:24
kopple	unfortunately I didn't take part in maemo's community when it was still thriving because I bought my n900 only in 2012	05:25
kopple	or 2013..	05:25
robbiethe1st	yeah	05:25
kopple	when I was compelled to buy a better phone to get at least some wi-fi connection when I'm about	05:25
kopple	so I missed so many steps of the technical growth of this OS	05:26
kopple	I will always refure prioprietary OSes since the advent of social networks and - Android - so I'm going to stick with maemo or do without mobile phones in the first place	05:27
kopple	I wouldn't be terrified by a life without a mobile	05:27
kopple	actually, it would be pretty good	05:27
kopple	but if the market needs and craves for my money they will have to cater for the open-source minds	05:28
kopple	neo900 is way more likely to have my money than any other brand nowadays	05:29
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kopple	is it obvious to say in an open-source community? Well, these are my feelings	05:30
kopple	ehehe 4:30 am here XD	05:32
Oksana	RzR: Is it for Maemo 5 (Fremantle)?.. https://openrepos.net/content/rzr/flite	05:32
kopple	my tongue is starting twisting too :X	05:33
kopple	will get back to you	05:33
kopple	thanks for your help everyone	05:33
Oksana	If it is, then could you please upload this new version to Extras-Devel?.. http://maemo.org/packages/view/flite/	05:33
* Oksana hopes that RzR reads this ^ because Oksana will likely forget about it a day later...		05:34
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KotCzarny	yawn	07:17
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* Oksana : Busy today, busy tomorrow, hurrying the day after tomorrow, going insane during weekend...		07:54
KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hL6fkJ1_k like that?	07:54
Vajb	Oksana: thx for the hint man. Just placed my mugen orde. 40min still left, if someone is interested.	08:14
KotCzarny	i think oksana is a girls name	08:14
KotCzarny	:)	08:14
Vajb	order that is	08:14
Vajb	ok should have said thx for the hint person :)	08:15
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lobito	sup guys	08:43
KotCzarny	snow	08:43
lobito	i've already asked at #neo900, but does anyone knows where to buy the Nokia Standard Toolkit (aka NMP standard toolkit)?	08:44
lobito	this stuff: http://discussions.nokia.com/discussions/attachments/discussions/apps/55242/1/untitled.JPG	08:44
lobito	*know	08:44
KotCzarny	ebay?	08:44
Vajb	my advice also	08:45
lobito	haven't found it there, but i'll search again and let you know	08:45
lobito	thanks	08:45
lobito	this is the closest i've got http://stellatech.com/nokia-ss-210-camera-removal-tool,a,en,817659.html	08:46
Vajb	or to buy everything separated	08:46
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lobito	(btw, worth checking out the whole category: http://stellatech.com/articles.php?cid=818 )	08:46
Vajb	screwdrivers are not hard to find, but some special tools might be	08:46
lobito	@Vajb what does it include exactly, do you know?	08:47
KotCzarny	maybe neo900 guys should bundle camera removal tool	08:47
KotCzarny	as rest is freely available	08:47
Vajb	is it possible to make that tool urself?	08:47
lobito	@KotCzarny sure? that's great	08:47
KotCzarny	http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTIL-NOKIA-LUMIA-800-EXTRACTEUR-OBJECTIF-PHOTO-NOKIA-CAMERA-REMOVAL-TOOL-/111303280563?pt=FR_Pi%C3%A8ces_de_rechange_outils&hash=item19ea3147b3	08:48
KotCzarny	you should check for compatibility	08:48
KotCzarny	which phone used same camera as n90	08:48
KotCzarny	n900	08:48
lobito	this is one of the two camera removal tools mentioned on the service manuals: http://stellatech.com/nokia-ss-210-camera-removal-tool,a,en,817659.html	08:51
lobito	the other one is named: "SS-100 camera removal tool", haven't found it	08:51
lobito	but looks a lot like the one you found on ebay	08:51
lobito	what's the "AV plug"? it's mentioned on the service manuals, too	08:51
lobito	does anyone know?	08:52
Vajb	in some guide it is mentioned that camera is easy to remove with credit card or blunt knife	08:52
KotCzarny	3.5 minijack with many rings	08:52
KotCzarny	ie headphone jack	08:52
Vajb	just tried google search "nokia n900 camera removal tool"	08:52
lobito	@KotCzarny oh, you mean the one included with n900?	08:52
lobito	the one you use to connect the phone to the tv?	08:53
KotCzarny	yes	08:53
lobito	great, thanks	08:53
Vajb	yes	08:53
lobito	@Vajb i'd rather get the tool for it, i don't wanna risk breaking it	08:53
Vajb	also stated on that site is that n79 camera fits	08:53
lobito	yup, i know	08:54
lobito	read that on maemo forums	08:54
lobito	cam is available for purchase here, too http://stellatech.com/nokia-x6-camera-module-5mp,a,en,813734.html	08:54
lobito	camera module, i mean	08:54
KotCzarny	most likely you get tool with module	08:55
Vajb	how did u break the module btw?	08:55
KotCzarny	so search for the module, then check descriptions	08:55
lobito	i didn't	08:55
Vajb	oh	08:55
lobito	i bought my n900 second hand	08:55
Vajb	i c	08:56
lobito	camera works sometimes	08:56
KotCzarny	hmm	08:56
lobito	then "operation error"	08:56
KotCzarny	i've read that focus can break	08:56
lobito	may be a software problem	08:56
KotCzarny	physically break	08:56
lobito	i want the tools because i really like the neo900 project	08:56
lobito	i want a kit to gift to my local hackerspace	08:57
KotCzarny	lobito: suggest bundling the tool to them	08:57
lobito	and one for me to sit and learn from the service manuals	08:57
lobito	KotCzarny: to whom, sorry? i didn't understand	08:58
lobito	bundling the module with the tool?	08:58
lobito	to the sellers, you mean?	08:58
lobito	that'd be a good idea	08:58
KotCzarny	yes	08:58
lobito	i just want the tools for the long run, tho	08:58
lobito	for neo900 and to teach/learn at my local hackerspace	08:58
lobito	i just can't find the whole kit	08:59
lobito	i found this guy searching for the same thing http://discussions.nokia.com/t5/Phone-Applications/Nokia-Standard-Toolkit/td-p/1145925	09:00
lobito	the reply he got made me rage so hard	09:00
lobito	lol	09:00
KotCzarny	maybe ask phone service people?	09:00
KotCzarny	well, he asked in 'apps and services'	09:01
KotCzarny	;)	09:01
KotCzarny	still, nokia is no more	09:02
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KotCzarny	i wouldnt ask anything there	09:02
lobito	yeah, now it's microsoft's	09:02
KotCzarny	especially when it requires any knowledge	09:02
KotCzarny	'we know better, you should pay for repairs' etc	09:03
lobito	i came here hoping to find a current or former nokia employee who has access to the official toolkit case	09:04
lobito	you're right, i'm gonna ask at talk.maemo	09:05
lobito	maybe at buy/sell section	09:05
KotCzarny	http://www.futurtek.com/nokia/nokia-ss-100-camera-removal-tool/	09:06
KotCzarny	hum	09:06
KotCzarny	wonder if its 'catch all site' or they really sell it	09:06
lobito	nice find!	09:06
lobito	i'm gonna find out	09:06
lobito	thanks :)	09:07
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lobito	cheaty fucking site	09:13
lobito	doesn't give you the price even if you register an account	09:14
KotCzarny	yeah, dummy then	09:15
lobito	and if you're a "retail customer" at signup, they redirect you to itstek.com	09:15
lobito	where you can't find ss-100	09:15
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lobito	do you guys think "Buy & Sell" is the proper section to post about this on talk.maemo.org?	09:17
KotCzarny	i think neo900 would be good	09:18
lobito	okay, will do	09:18
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Vajb	i did also some research, but couldn't find complete kit	09:23
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lobito	thanks @Vajb :)	09:33
lobito	this post is relevant http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1275839&postcount=6	09:34
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RzR	Oksana, my repo is m6 only	09:51
Vajb	lobito: i still think ur best bet is to buy things separately	09:54
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Vajb	pulseaudio seems to pop up even if i choose alsa in mplayer	10:17
KotCzarny	but it shouldn't use much cpu	10:17
KotCzarny	in such case	10:18
KotCzarny	because filter is off for headphones	10:18
Vajb	also mplayer whines about write error from time to time	10:18
KotCzarny	could be system sound playing ?	10:19
Vajb	[AO_ALSA] Write error: Broken pipe9:09.0) 10.1%	10:19
Vajb	[AO_ALSA] Trying to reset soundcard.	10:19
Vajb	i don't have any sounds in use + device is on silent mode atm	10:19
Vajb	pulseaudio use around 8 percent of cpu	10:20
Vajb	uses	10:20
Vajb	and mplayer around 30	10:21
Vajb	also xorg pops up sometimes staying around 10 mostly	10:21
KotCzarny	also, top isn't super exact on cpu usage	10:21
KotCzarny	my player often shows 0% cpu usage, but it uses ~10-40%	10:22
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Vajb	and now it hanged	10:23
Vajb	guess i'll be using pulse	10:23
KotCzarny	:)	10:23
Vajb	but it's about same eventually	10:25
Vajb	mplayer uses 5 less and pulse 5 more	10:25
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KotCzarny	http://i.imgur.com/cnApAdJ.png	12:10
KotCzarny	nice or not?	12:10
bencoh	Vajb: mplayer -quiet/-really-quiet helps, sometimes :)	12:12
bencoh	oh, and mplayer -ac mad as well if you're listening to mp3 and have mad	12:12
bencoh	(libmad)	12:12
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Vajb	hmm i think i tried quiet, but then it didn't show time	12:57
KotCzarny	you can selectively quiet mplayer	12:57
KotCzarny	but line is more complicated	12:58
KotCzarny	-msglevel <all=<level>:<module>=<level>:...>	12:59
KotCzarny	man mplayer	12:59
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Vajb	i don't have libmad. It seems to be using mp3lib by default	12:59
bencoh	oh ...	13:01
bencoh	I guess we should rebuild mplayer with mad support	13:01
KotCzarny	bencoh: why not with gst decoder/	13:01
KotCzarny	:)	13:02
KotCzarny	at least for supported formats	13:02
bencoh	KotCzarny: because mplayer has no support for gst and I dont really want to add it :)	13:03
KotCzarny	well, ssvb hacked it to use gst for mp3 on 770	13:03
KotCzarny	so it IS possible	13:03
bencoh	sure	13:03
bencoh	I didnt say it wasnt	13:03
KotCzarny	as for 'want' does libmad decode on dsp?	13:03
bencoh	I just dont want to write it myself	13:03
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bencoh	no, libmad is a fast soft integer implem	13:04
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zGrr	moin :)	13:41
KotCzarny	hi	13:42
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bencoh	Vajb: I benched mplayer with mad against internal mp3lib and ffmp3	14:36
bencoh	for a 94sec mp3 file, time says user:13sec for mad, user:28sec for ffmp3, user:32sec for mp3lib	14:37
KotCzarny	shouldn't you use 'real' number?	14:38
bencoh	no, since real will just give me elapsed time :)	14:38
bencoh	anyway, top says the same ... mplayer -ao -null -really-quiet uses 30%cpu with mp3lib and 10~15% with mad :)	14:39
KotCzarny	top sucks	14:39
bencoh	not that much	14:40
KotCzarny	seriously? it consistently says 2% esd 1.5% top and 0% oscp	14:40
KotCzarny	even if i play 320kbit file	14:40
KotCzarny	busybox implementation on maemo sucks	14:41
KotCzarny	btw. you should use 'real' number as some decoders could stall cpu	14:41
bencoh	I dont use a busybox top	14:41
KotCzarny	just checked 'normal' top	14:42
KotCzarny	same numbers	14:42
KotCzarny	now tell me, does it really take for my decoder 0% cpu to play mp3?	14:42
bencoh	I highly doubt that	14:44
KotCzarny	yup	14:44
KotCzarny	that's why i don't believe top in anything else than memory stats	14:44
bencoh	but I dont have that kind of results here (havent tried oscp though)	14:44
bencoh	is that on n800 ?	14:44
KotCzarny	yes	14:44
KotCzarny	but i think n900 showed same thing	14:44
KotCzarny	let me check	14:44
KotCzarny	784 1 pulse S < 3796 1.6 28.7 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority	14:45
KotCzarny	8977 8976 root S < 2832 1.2 22.0 oscp	14:45
KotCzarny	256kbit mp3	14:45
KotCzarny	cpu is at 250mhz	14:46
KotCzarny	(at least according to /proc/cpuinfo)	14:46
bencoh	wtf	14:47
KotCzarny	btw. you should disable cpufreq changeing	14:47
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KotCzarny	*changes	14:47
KotCzarny	for benchmarks	14:47
bencoh	hm, true	14:47
KotCzarny	\|> ievas polka (basshunter remix) - Loituma (2007, Ievas Polka CDM, TEAM ZzZz)	14:49
bencoh	haha	14:50
KotCzarny	http://i.imgur.com/wrDkAHM.png	14:53
KotCzarny	hah, styled on pc too	14:53
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Vajb	so im using worst case scenario :)	14:59
Vajb	is libmad in repo's?	15:00
KotCzarny	most likely	15:00
Vajb	or it need to be compiled to mplayer itself?	15:00
KotCzarny	mplayer -ac help \| grep libmad	15:01
KotCzarny	if it prints anything then you only need lib	15:01
bencoh	http://muarf.org/~bencoh/maemo/mplayer_1.0svn20091221-4_armel.deb for mplayer, mad, fribidi, and gl1 are in maemo and/or extras	15:01
KotCzarny	though, i think it had to be compiled statically in or ldd mplayer binary should show libmad dependence	15:02
bencoh	(I had fribidi and gl1 installed in scratchbox so mplayer chose to enable it ....)	15:02
bencoh	KotCzarny: it does, indeed	15:02
Vajb	mad libmad working libMAD MPEG layer 1-2-3 [libmad]	15:03
Vajb	says ur command KotCzarny	15:04
KotCzarny	then check -ac mad or -ac libmad	15:04
KotCzarny	and play the mp3	15:04
bencoh	dunno if http://maemo.org/profile/view/sampp/ is still active (at least he's not here)	15:04
bencoh	(he's maemo mplayer maintainer)	15:05
Vajb	says cannot find codec	15:05
KotCzarny	bencoh: Last Activity: 2011-10-17 17:44	15:06
KotCzarny	http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=11486	15:06
Vajb	will get to it later. Now is time to make some food	15:06
bencoh	Vajb: mad is not enabled in maemo mplayer, that's why I gave you a link :)	15:06
KotCzarny	assuming it's the same person	15:06
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Vajb	i don't find madlib from ham nor apt	16:20
MonkeyofDoom	isn't it usually pronounced libmad	16:20
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Vajb	mad libmad madlib	16:23
Vajb	not found	16:23
KotCzarny	apt-cache search mad	16:24
Vajb	meh libmad0	16:26
KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/libm/libmad/	16:26
Vajb	sigh	16:26
KotCzarny	right	16:26
KotCzarny	debianizimz	16:26
Vajb	:p	16:26
Vajb	about debianizm i installed crunchbang to my desktop	16:27
KotCzarny	what's that?	16:27
Vajb	but haven't been able to enable nvidia drivers for it	16:27
Vajb	debian based os	16:27
KotCzarny	o.o	16:27
KotCzarny	still looking for your favourite os?	16:28
Vajb	still suffering bad hd i guess	16:29
Vajb	because from time to time my os gets messed to unbootable state	16:29
KotCzarny	hmm	16:29
KotCzarny	ssd ?	16:29
Vajb	bah i wish	16:29
KotCzarny	what does the smart say?	16:29
Vajb	try something from ide region :D	16:29
KotCzarny	pastebin.com smartctl -A /dev/sda	16:30
KotCzarny	or whatever your hdd is	16:30
Vajb	last time i checked with ultimate boot cd tools it gave some errors but seemed to work	16:31
Vajb	nvm it's not on right now	16:31
Vajb	since n900 i have less and less of need to have desktop	16:31
KotCzarny	if errors clump in one area make a hole around it via partition table	16:31
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Vajb	thinking of buying some kind of wifi hd or something	16:32
KotCzarny	or if you prefer not reinstalling you can try making bunch of 100MB files then check for errors	16:32
KotCzarny	and deleting good ones	16:32
Vajb	it's from year 2000 :)	16:33
KotCzarny	you can just grab 128gb microsd card and put inside n900	16:33
KotCzarny	;)	16:33
Vajb	1.3ghz thunderbird	16:33
KotCzarny	not so long ago i got me t61 for ~60eur	16:33
KotCzarny	:)	16:33
Vajb	i would need 250gb sd card to fit all my music in it	16:33
uuhimhere	thunderbord?	16:34
KotCzarny	athlon	16:34
KotCzarny	:)	16:34
uuhimhere	isnt that an old AMD	16:34
uuhimhere	yeah	16:34
Vajb	it is	16:34
KotCzarny	yes, and slow a bit nowadays	16:34
uuhimhere	i think i had an athlon XP	16:34
KotCzarny	i have two athlons in my closet	16:34
Vajb	shh u might upset her	16:34
uuhimhere	thoroughbred i think?	16:34
Vajb	can't remember	16:34
KotCzarny	vajb: look for x60/x61/t60/t61 (but watch out for nvidia based ones)	16:35
Vajb	i remember when i bought new 250gb hd	16:35
KotCzarny	they go cheap and are very good machines	16:35
uuhimhere	i ran those overclocked for 4 years non-stop...	16:35
Vajb	i plugged it and everything went dark	16:35
KotCzarny	my first hdd had 6.4gb and cost ~100eur	16:35
KotCzarny	;)	16:35
uuhimhere	my first hdd was a quantum	16:35
uuhimhere	dont think they even exist anymore	16:35
KotCzarny	mine was wd caviar	16:35
Vajb	old reliable 250w powersupply died with glory	16:36
uuhimhere	quantum fireball	16:36
uuhimhere	13G ftw	16:36
Vajb	it couldn't handle hd's startup current which was said to be 32A in label	16:36
KotCzarny	later i was experimenting with cf2ata adapters	16:36
KotCzarny	iops in the 0-10 per second range on random write ;)	16:36
KotCzarny	32A is a tad hardcore?	16:37
KotCzarny	even today rarely you see power brick with such amperage	16:37
uuhimhere	thats alot of power ... in some countries thats the borderline for a 3 phase supply	16:38
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Vajb	that's what i wondered too	16:39
Vajb	but 350w power was enough	16:39
Vajb	and that was "max peak startup power"	16:40
uuhimhere	what voltage level? 240/110?	16:40
Vajb	12v for hd, but power is plugged to 230v mains	16:40
uuhimhere	if its sucking 350w from a 230 main	16:41
KotCzarny	yeah, hdd alone..	16:41
KotCzarny	what about rest of stuff	16:41
KotCzarny	vajb: what was the model?	16:41
Vajb	maybe western digital or seagate	16:41
uuhimhere	thats only about 1.5 amps... are you sure thats right?	16:41
KotCzarny	maybe it was the model	16:42
Vajb	250gb	16:42
uuhimhere	no that sounds about right yeah 1.5 amps	16:42
uuhimhere	for a hd	16:42
uuhimhere	dunno where you got the 32 A value from	16:42
KotCzarny	like i say, it might be the model, not the amperage	16:43
uuhimhere	yeah i say it is theres no way its a 32 A motor	16:43
KotCzarny	especially it's quite modern being 250gb	16:43
Vajb	from the label attached to hd	16:43
Vajb	but connected to ide not even sata	16:44
KotCzarny	i might say those rll 8"" monsters could draw a bit	16:44
KotCzarny	not not 3.5"	16:44
KotCzarny	even 10krpm	16:44
Vajb	so not that modern	16:44
KotCzarny	vajb: still	16:44
Vajb	well beats me :)	16:44
KotCzarny	do you still own it?	16:44
Vajb	yep	16:44
KotCzarny	if you get a chance write the model	16:45
KotCzarny	:)	16:45
KotCzarny	you dont have to open the case	16:45
KotCzarny	lsscsi could show it	16:45
uuhimhere	does anybody have an iomega	16:45
KotCzarny	or hdparm -I	16:45
KotCzarny	i had iomega zip drive long time ago	16:45
KotCzarny	100mb floppies	16:45
KotCzarny	fun	16:45
KotCzarny	:)	16:45
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engaging_facade	i wonder if in the future we could have real cloud storage	16:46
KotCzarny	forget about it	16:47
KotCzarny	unless you dont care about security of your data	16:47
engaging_facade	as in charged clouds in the sky hold data	16:47
engaging_facade	real ftw	16:47
KotCzarny	butterfly effect	16:47
KotCzarny	would destroy it	16:47
engaging_facade	and whenever you wanna download something you hold out a lightning rod	16:47
engaging_facade	nah	16:47
engaging_facade	butterfly effect wouldjust transfer it to another location	16:48
KotCzarny	nope	16:48
KotCzarny	it would rearrange the bits	16:48
engaging_facade	so? thats the exciting part	16:48
KotCzarny	btw. origin gives out free syndicate copies	16:48
ecc3g	only disk drive i ever had that ran on AC power was an 8" full height drive where its motor ran on 120V AC... long gone now.	16:51
KotCzarny	vroom	16:52
ecc3g	floppy drive.	16:52
JesperH	Before the invention of the power supply unit	16:52
ecc3g	even half height 8" drives used the molex 5 0 0 12 connector IIRC	16:52
ecc3g	ST412 and TM503, the oldest drives I ever had, used molex 5 0 0 12	16:53
ecc3g	(these were 5.25" HDDs FH)	16:54
KotCzarny	i had quantum bigfoot	16:54
KotCzarny	vrooom	16:54
ecc3g	held a whopping 10MB and 15MB respectively	16:54
ecc3g	Actually used rust/iron oxide platters. new hard drives use some cobalt high coercitivity coating or something	16:56
KotCzarny	wikipedia says that at the beginning 14" and 8" driver ran on AC	16:57
KotCzarny	no example models tho	16:57
ecc3g	I dont recall what full height 8" floppy drive I had but that was true, it did run on AC	16:58
ecc3g	it was a Shugart brand, IIRC	16:58
ecc3g	which became seagate...	16:58
ecc3g	or something like that	16:58
ecc3g	but the 8" DSDD half height floppy did switch over to DC.	16:59
ecc3g	8" half height is like the same as 5.25" full height... much like 5.25" half height is the same as 3.5" full height...	17:00
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Vajb	so u guys have been using computers long time	17:16
KotCzarny	kind of	17:16
KotCzarny	i started with atari in 80's	17:16
KotCzarny	atari 800xl	17:16
KotCzarny	;)	17:16
Vajb	i think i first used mac cos my preliminary school bought them around -89	17:17
Vajb	i never had atari	17:17
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KotCzarny	:)	17:17
Vajb	tho my friend had amiga 500 but we just played	17:17
KotCzarny	yeah, computers boomed as gaming tools	17:17
Vajb	and another friend had commodore 64	17:17
KotCzarny	i still have 2 amiga 500's	17:18
Vajb	wow	17:18
KotCzarny	working!	17:18
KotCzarny	and one poll mode scsi adapter	17:18
Vajb	also one friend had amiga 1000 with hd!	17:18
Vajb	he was our hero lol	17:18
KotCzarny	:)	17:18
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Vajb	and now we are having more power than those compined in our pocket	17:19
KotCzarny	yup	17:19
Vajb	or is it combined...	17:20
KotCzarny	not to mention storage space	17:20
Vajb	yeah that's another story	17:20
Vajb	would be funny to play mp3 from floppy	17:20
KotCzarny	128gb that's the size of a 1cm^2	17:20
KotCzarny	i did!	17:20
KotCzarny	on amiga	17:20
KotCzarny	;)	17:20
Vajb	half way through song and change disk	17:20
KotCzarny	we had ~10kB/s connection in uni	17:21
KotCzarny	;)	17:21
Vajb	lightning speed	17:21
KotCzarny	good enough	17:21
KotCzarny	;)	17:21
Vajb	my 56kbps mode sometimes reached speeds near 8kbps	17:22
Vajb	according to some download accelerator program	17:22
KotCzarny	100cps?	17:22
KotCzarny	;)	17:22
KotCzarny	1000	17:22
Vajb	think it was download accelerator +	17:22
KotCzarny	good times, fun times	17:23
Vajb	yeah	17:23
Vajb	is n900 somewhere round ps1?	17:23
KotCzarny	faster i think	17:23
KotCzarny	but ps1 had more optimized software	17:24
KotCzarny	hardware in n900 is hardly used..	17:24
Vajb	can't remember exact specs for it	17:24
KotCzarny	also, you can't directly compare playstation platform to x86	17:24
Vajb	true	17:24
KotCzarny	MIPS R3000A-compatible 32-Bit RISC CPU with 5KB L1 cache, running at 33.8688 MHz .[9]	17:25
KotCzarny	:)	17:25
Vajb	not so much	17:25
KotCzarny	but it has many specialized chips	17:25
Vajb	anyone tried any psemu on n900?	17:25
KotCzarny	vajb: yeah, also uae	17:26
Vajb	it was king back in the 95	17:26
Vajb	i've used only snes emu	17:26
KotCzarny	http://pupnik.de/software.html	17:26
KotCzarny	Yes it's real. No it's not fast. I get about 0.7-1.3 fps on 770.	17:26
KotCzarny	This is a proof-of-feasability project to show that PS1 emulation is possible and doesn't take up too much RAM.	17:26
KotCzarny	hehe	17:27
KotCzarny	ps1 emu on 770	17:27
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Vajb	not too playable i guess :p	17:27
KotCzarny	you know what 770 is?	17:27
KotCzarny	:)	17:27
KotCzarny	granddad of n900	17:28
Vajb	yeah i guessed	17:28
Vajb	was n800 after that?	17:28
KotCzarny	yes	17:28
KotCzarny	then n810	17:28
KotCzarny	which was basically n800 with keyboard	17:29
Vajb	hmm after installing bencoh version of mplayer ham claims that there is update	17:29
inz	And GPS	17:29
KotCzarny	inz, and wimax in some versions	17:29
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KotCzarny	but cpu/ram was the same	17:29
Vajb	when was n900 first published?	17:30
KotCzarny	2008 i think	17:30
KotCzarny	or 2009	17:30
Vajb	2007?	17:30
KotCzarny	but to be honest n800 has enough specs to make nice media player	17:30
Vajb	i remember my friend having it at 2007	17:30
Vajb	or is there possibility to mix it with some other device	17:31
KotCzarny	Release date	17:31
KotCzarny	11 November 2009	17:31
KotCzarny	he could have got developer version	17:31
KotCzarny	or something	17:31
KotCzarny	Nokia N900 was announced on 17 September 2008	17:31
Vajb	ok	17:31
KotCzarny	so definitely not earlier than that	17:32
KotCzarny	The release of the pre-alpha Maemo 5 software development kit, in December 2008	17:32
Vajb	so my memory palace is even more messy than my hobbydesk	17:32
KotCzarny	The first photo and specifications of the N900, codenamed Rover while being developed, came out in May 2009	17:32
Vajb	no. He got it with sim card and data plan	17:32
Vajb	as a regular user	17:32
KotCzarny	then not earlier than december 2009	17:33
Vajb	hmm im puzzled	17:35
KotCzarny	n810 was black a bit	17:35
Vajb	it can't have been 810 coz it's not phone	17:35
KotCzarny	n810 had wimax	17:35
KotCzarny	in some versions	17:35
Vajb	normal gsm	17:35
KotCzarny	then your memory is flunky	17:36
Vajb	bbl food is ready	17:36
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bencoh	Vajb: does it work, apart from ham bitching about version ?	17:45
bencoh	(I dont really see why it would complain but ...)	17:45
bencoh	apt-get says it's upgradable as well, but apt-cache policy shows the exact same version number	17:47
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Vajb	i dont know why ham whines about it	18:39
Vajb	it appeared as same version when i installed	18:39
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Vajb	it works. Can't say anything about efficiency unless i test it longer	18:39
Vajb	meaning battery consumption	18:40
Vajb	do u use alsa or pulse with it?	18:40
Vajb	i tested with pulse and it seemed to use more cpu than default codec	18:41
Vajb	tho mplayer used less	18:41
Vajb	dumpstream seems to use only 2 percent	18:43
KotCzarny	because it doesnt use audio system	18:43
Vajb	but i didn't test it earlier	18:43
Vajb	true	18:43
KotCzarny	ie. similar usage as wget	18:44
Vajb	ham shows exactly same version and claims that it is upgradeable	18:45
KotCzarny	you know that version string is long?	18:46
KotCzarny	0.8-0osso28diablo2	18:46
KotCzarny	etc	18:46
Vajb	well it does show maybe ten characters	18:46
KotCzarny	for best comparison use apt-get or dpkg to check	18:50
Vajb	1.0svn20091221-4	18:50
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bencoh	Vajb: yeah that's amazing how pulse uses more cpu when using -ao pulse, compared to default (alsa)	19:01
KotCzarny	bencoh, 2xfft	19:01
KotCzarny	+magic	19:01
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kerio	-ao pulse?	19:59
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Vajb	kerio: mplayer -ao pulse	21:11
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bencoh	KotCzarny: on maemo5/n900 alsa wraps a pulse compat layer, afaik	21:18
KotCzarny	hmm	21:18
bencoh	so ... it's definitely funny :)	21:19
KotCzarny	lightly said	21:19
KotCzarny	i would said it's braindamaged	21:19
KotCzarny	*say	21:19
bencoh	dunno why -ao pulse needs more cpu ... maybe a different samplerate	21:19
bencoh	or float vs integer	21:19
KotCzarny	pulse goes through mixing	21:19
KotCzarny	ie. many to one	21:20
bencoh	mplayer says it's the same output conf, so ....	21:20
bencoh	dunno	21:20
KotCzarny	hm?	21:20
KotCzarny	maybe it ignored you	21:20
bencoh	44.1khz/2ch/s16le	21:20
KotCzarny	ahm, you mean params	21:21
bencoh	yeah	21:21
KotCzarny	but think about it	21:21
KotCzarny	if pulse opens alsa, it has to resample all input streams	21:21
KotCzarny	it can't just open alsa and request some custom rate	21:21
bencoh	pulse doesnt open alsa	21:22
KotCzarny	so maybe it resamples EVERYTHING to 48khz	21:22
bencoh	alsa opens pulse	21:22
bencoh	oh, hmm ...	21:22
KotCzarny	cant be true	21:22
bencoh	I see what you mean	21:22
KotCzarny	otherwise you wouldnt damage speakers using alsa direclty	21:22
bencoh	but still, userland "alsa" goes through pulse	21:22
KotCzarny	on normal systems alsa does reampling too	21:22
KotCzarny	i shall test it one day	21:23
KotCzarny	maybe tomorrow	21:23
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drathir	pulsse is even pc bad idea alsa always...	21:28
KotCzarny	bad speakers much?	21:28
drathir	alsa clean pulse virtual changge them...	21:29
KotCzarny	language much parser fail	21:29
drathir	pulse is some kind of frontend at alsa...	21:31
KotCzarny	it's much more than that	21:31
drathir	it uses alsa and virtually add special efects resample etc... if any problems with sount propably pulse fault...	21:32
drathir	sound*	21:32
KotCzarny	pulse does: 1/ highpass filter (to protect device speakers damage)	21:32
KotCzarny	2/ manage volumes in input streams	21:33
KotCzarny	(so phone has different volume than media player etc)	21:33
drathir	all what You need made by pulse able to do with clean alsa...	21:33
KotCzarny	and different for different profiles (headphone/speakers)	21:33
drathir	KotCzarny: yea it virtually multiplexing sound per app, but it consume cpu bc its virtually made...	21:34
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KotCzarny	yup	21:35
KotCzarny	fail on nokia's side for not getting decent hw audio	21:35
drathir	for n900 pulse little hard, bc of cpu usage...	21:36
drathir	and also one disadventage if not wrong it dont use dsp acceleration sadly...	21:36
KotCzarny	if you never use device speakers, yes, you can ignore pulse	21:36
drathir	direct alsa too not able use dsp hw acceleration...	21:37
drathir	in theory not able to broke speakers, needed redirect really long time and overvoltage signal, normal speakers able to connect into 220v w/o harming...	21:39
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KotCzarny	htm	22:07
KotCzarny	pygtk doesnt support transparent text	22:07
KotCzarny	o.o	22:07
ShadowJK	N900 was considered "fast enough", so mp3 decoding on dsp wasn't included	22:18
KotCzarny	pity	22:18
ShadowJK	on the previous N800 and N810, dsp was used for mp3	22:18
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KotCzarny	some work in progress: winamp skin loaded by oscp: http://i.imgur.com/GH1h4qo.png	23:13
KotCzarny	:)	23:13
totalizator	whoa, slow down bud :3	23:15
KotCzarny	so, good idea/bad idea?	23:16
totalizator	looks great	23:17
totalizator	but this would be only for pc gui?	23:17
totalizator	rite?	23:17
KotCzarny	nope	23:17
KotCzarny	it's pygtk	23:17
KotCzarny	so independent	23:17
totalizator	okok, but how do you manage playlist on n900 then?	23:17
KotCzarny	you click 'open playlist' button, right?	23:18
KotCzarny	then playlist window would pop up	23:18
totalizator	err, ok	23:18
totalizator	lots of work (?)	23:18
KotCzarny	and of course you can always set style_me to different value	23:19
KotCzarny	and get previous behavior	23:19
KotCzarny	a bit, but so far doable	23:19
KotCzarny	i have to investigate where does those single pixel offset come from	23:19
totalizator	so oscp would be 100% old winamp skins compatible?	23:19
bencoh	oh, btw ... something that I think might interest some of the n900 users here : https://www.xpra.org/	23:20
KotCzarny	not 100% but will get as much stuff from the skin file as it needs	23:20
bencoh	(the "screen" equivalent to ssh -X, as they call it)	23:20
KotCzarny	i think it was called remote computing	23:21
KotCzarny	but nice idea	23:21
KotCzarny	but..	23:22
KotCzarny	it still runs vfb	23:22
KotCzarny	i thought maybe someone managed to connect/disconnect x server at will	23:22
KotCzarny	oh well	23:22
totalizator	how different it is from nx from nomachine for example?	23:23
KotCzarny	still nice to be able to leave app running there	23:23
KotCzarny	even after disconnecting	23:23
bencoh	totalizator: it works at a different level	23:24
bencoh	Nomachine/NX allows you to open/reattach a session	23:24
bencoh	xpra allows you to run a single X app and dettach/attach	23:24
totalizator	oh, that's nice, I love such stuff	23:25
totalizator	have to try it	23:25
bencoh	KotCzarny: I'm not sure there is a vfb involved here	23:25
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KotCzarny	bencoh: check their faq	23:25
bencoh	oh, right	23:26
bencoh	now that's sad	23:27
totalizator	and why is that?	23:28
bencoh	because it works by sending (and encoding/decoding) a framebuffer to the client	23:30
KotCzarny	ie. another vnc	23:31
bencoh	instead of drawing primitives/calls and fragments	23:31
KotCzarny	and tightvnc already is quite optimized	23:31
KotCzarny	http://i.imgur.com/scYmrn8.png	23:34
KotCzarny	:)	23:34
KotCzarny	teases	23:35
bencoh	eww :]	23:35
KotCzarny	yeah, colorshocker	23:35
KotCzarny	but wanted to check with random skin	23:35
KotCzarny	:)	23:35
totalizator	oh, I see	23:37
totalizator	KotCzarny: lel, something less retro maybe?	23:37
KotCzarny	when i finish with it you will be able to select any classic winamp skin you want	23:37
KotCzarny	anyway, enough for today, nite nite	23:38
totalizator	o/	23:40
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Oksana	Okay, what's the topic of March Photograph competition?	23:55
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bencoh	I was wondering as well	23:56
Oksana	pichlo and chenliangchen : Where are you?	23:57
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