IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2015-01-02

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salamisamiAnyone can help with n9 question?01:39
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bencohI cant, but I guess you should ask anyway, someone might :)01:45
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newbieAlerthi there. Is gtk buildable for n900 ??? and having two versions of gtk ??08:32
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Steven__newbieAlert: "apt-cache -n search libgtk" shows libgtk2.0 on my N900 with CSSU stable.09:26
Steven__So it can atleast be built for it. IDK about having two versions.09:30
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Steven__Are there any FLOSS applications providing voice encryption (e.g. SRTP/ZRTP) for the n900? AFIK Telepathy doesn't support it, and Skype is insecure and proprietary.09:41
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mrcaaatttI think sip works, although never tried it myself10:01
Steven__SIP itself does not offer encryption. SRTP or ZRTP are the protocols that provide encryption for SIP calls.10:11
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bencohSteven__: telepathy has a sip plugin (used in maemo afaik) so you coud look for a compatible zrtp backend for telepathy11:01
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uhhimherehi guys15:31
uhhimhereI would like to compile and boot basic linux on my samsung 7850(uses a bcm28155) and was wondering if its possible to create .dts/i file from the kernel?15:31
freemangordonuhhimhere: -ECHAN?15:32
freemangordonwrong channel15:33
uhhimhereoh ok15:33
uhhimherei would like to maybe install maemo on top of it in the long term...15:33
uhhimhereive looked at the source and theres a bunch of non-vanilla dts/i files15:34
freemangordonI am not sure maemo will like android kernel, too many stuff is changed there compared to upstream. afaik15:34
uhhimhereim doing a vanilla build15:35
uhhimherelemme start from scratch15:35
freemangordoncool. but can you get to /bin/sh at least?15:35
uhhimherelol let me re state that15:36
uhhimherethe plan is to do a vanilla build15:36
uhhimherethis phone(samsung gt-s7850) uses a broadcom 21855(or 21644t depending where you look??) which has a 2x 1.2Ghz a9 + videocore 4 gpu15:37
freemangordonoh, it is clearer now :)15:37
uhhimhereand the device kernel is available from
uhhimhereso im trying to build just a minimal system and go from there15:38
freemangordonso this is what you call "vanilla kernel"? the one on
uhhimherewhat i need is the dts/i files that define the peripheral layout of the 785015:38
uhhimherethats where im hoping to find the dts file15:38
freemangordonahm I see15:38
bencohI guess it's a modified android kernel dump ?15:38
bencoh(codesource dump*)15:39
freemangordonbencoh: but if it is DT kernel, it is possible to get .dts from there and mount it on upstream15:39
freemangordonthough I am afraid most of the drivers will be missing15:39
bencohyeah, I was thinking about the drivers ;)15:39
freemangordonbut s/he should be able to boot to cli at least15:40
bencohbut still you might get a serial prompt15:40
freemangordonthat one too15:40
uhhimherethats what i want15:40
uhhimhereitll be like jurassic world 4 w/o the resident evil dino15:40
freemangordonok, what is your question then? :)15:40
bencohhow to port the dts ?15:41
bencohremove unknown drivers :]15:41
uhhimheretheres a bunch of dts/i files on the device kernel source15:41
uhhimhereim not sure which is for the 785015:41
uhhimherei have meld running comparison with the original vanilla 3.4.515:41
uhhimhereand theres a bunch of kona/ hawaii dts s15:42
freemangordonhmm, you know what? better join #armlinux and ask there15:42
freemangordonI can try to help15:42
freemangordonbut most of the arm linux gurus hang there15:43
uhhimhereyou know the real main reason i chose this phone(other than it was lying around) is the fat that its basically a souped up rbpi15:44
uhhimherewhere would you start15:44
freemangordonI am not sure rpi comes with dual-core a9 :)15:45
uhhimhereyeah thats why its a souped up15:45
freemangordoniirc rpi has arm11 core15:45
keriowhat's so exciting about the rpi?15:47
uhhimherethey both are broadcom socs with the same open sourced videocore gpu15:48
uhhimherewell that and software base15:48
kerioit's a fucking headless linux system15:48
freemangordonkerio: not exaclty15:48
freemangordonthere is hdmi and vga outs15:48
kerio"software base" means ad-hoc distributions15:48
kerioaka popularity15:48
keriowell yes15:48
keriodoes it have hardware video decoding?15:49
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keriocuz that's the only purpose i can think of for it15:49
freemangordonI guess yes, as a coleague of mine was running HD videos on a rpi connected to TV in the offise15:50
Palikerio: I'm using my rpi as cheap 60Mbps router15:50
keriomy current router was 40€ shipped15:50
Palibut I need 8021q15:50
kerioand it's 4 port gigE + dsl + 2.4ghz wifi15:51
Paliand did not found any router with configurable 8021q support15:51
Paliby router I mean router (not switch)15:51
Pali1 eth port in adn 1 eth port out15:51
Paliif you know good box with 8021q support (and ideally with 8021x too) let me know15:53
uhhimherefreemangordon: ok.. so ive asked in arm theyre all away i guess15:59
uhhimherewell since the chipset's gpu has its documentation available16:00
uhhimhereits a good hacking device no? maybe even run some of the gcw0 stuff on it?16:00
uhhimherew/ full 3d acceleration16:00
uhhimherewouldnt that be nice to have maemo run on a device with blob-less 3D accel?16:02
uhhimhereadd in a slide out keyboard youve got yourself a nice n900 ish device16:03
uhhimhereits all just a pipe dream right now of course16:03
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uhhimherespeaking of which how is neo900 going16:04
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uhhimherewell i could have sworn i heard a sparrow fart16:08
freemangordonuhhimhere: afaik neo900 is doing well :)16:10
freemangordonuhhimhere: what type of TS has this samsung device? capacitive?16:11
uhhimhereyes unfortunately16:11
uhhimhereits a single-sim version of that16:13
freemangordonand it has open bootloader?16:14
uhhimherethats a better one16:16
uhhimhereim not sure, but i do have cwm on it16:16
uhhimhereits rooted etc16:16
uhhimhereMotherboard hawai16:16
uhhimherelol theres a hawaii dts file in the device kernel's dts directory16:17
uhhimhereso it is dts loaded?16:17
freemangordonuhhimhere: so, can you run an arbitrary kernel on that device?16:17
uhhimherei havent tried16:18
freemangordonyou can attach dtb to the kernel16:18
freemangordonsee how it is done on n900, should be similar/same
freemangordonkerio: device tree16:26
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uhhimherewhere is part 3 of july's trilogy for the neo900?16:28
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lexik|mYep, waiting for it too :)16:30
uhhimherewel wasnt july '13 6 months ago16:31
freemangordonask dos1 on #neo900 :)16:38
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dos1part 3 is MIA, for now16:51
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lexik|mMissing in action? Interesting.16:53
dos1yeah... was supposed to be there but it's not ;)16:54
dos1more specifically, I was supposed to write it but didn't :c16:55
uhhimherein development hellhuh?16:55
uhhimherealot like the new jurassic world16:55
uhhimhereand what do you end up with?16:56
uhhimheregorillasaurus rex16:56
uhhimheresee jurassic world arlix16:56
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uhhimherewell according to the nice folks at armlinux the 7580 doesnt use DT17:01
uhhimherebecause if it did17:01
uhhimhereline 20617:01
uhhimhereSymlink in /proc as required by userspace ABI17:02
uhhimhere sys/firmware/devicetree/base17:02
uhhimherefreemangordon: alright17:05
uhhimherefreemangordon: would you help me with writing a dts for this thing?17:05
kerioPali: why is our iptables missing the ttl module? :(17:07
Palibecause nobody told me it?17:08
Paliand original titan defconfig did not included it17:08
uhhimherewell thats just lame, here is a phone with a SoC that *actually* has a GPU with open documentation and it cant be hacked(well not easily anyways)17:08
kerioPali: please add the ttl module to iptables17:08
kerioso sshuttle works :317:08
Palikerio: send patch against master branch of kernel-power git repo17:10
Paliand I can include it17:10
keriobut that's hard17:10
Jef91So this thread talks about getting python 2.7 running on Maemo -> but does anyone know if pyside was ever compiled for 2.7 on Maemo? Using the 2.5 version of pyside causes a segfault17:34
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Steven__I am going to dual boot the N900 with Maemo/CSSU and some other distro on the SD-card. What do you guys like to run on that sort of set up? I was looking at Nemo, but it looks like I will have to wait for a better driver for Wayland to work.17:39
Steven__From the name I am guessing that is a very small distro.17:42
bencohit's based on OE (openembedded)17:43
bencoh(SHR is also based on OE btw)17:43
* Sicelo used Debian with great success .. a year ago however. Arch works too, etc .. basically any linux should work17:43
Steven__Yes, though typical systems are not really optimized for that kind of hardware. I am taking a long at Angstrom, though I don't see much on using it on the N90017:46
Sicelowhat optimization are we talking about btw?17:47
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Steven__256 MiB mem, small screen, touch for pointing.17:47
sixwheeledbeast^I don't see the point in Dual booting N900's17:49
Steven__You just use Maemo then?17:50
Siceloi don't know how those 3 specs relate to a distro .. screen issues are the job of the wm/de (think E17 for example).17:50
uhhimherehowbout you just make up your own?
Steven__Eh, I guess your right about it not being related. I was just hoping for something that would work well for GUI/CLI tasks without requiring a lot of work to get it working.17:52
Siceloe17 does that (and that's what SHR uses)17:53
Steven__Okay. I'm going to take a look at these suggestions. How is the modem/call/text support on these? Looks like the modem has support in the kernel and call/text has support through cmt-speech.17:55
Steven__Not sure how integrated that is though. A lot of projects I see say that call/text is not supported on the N900.17:57
Sicelocalls not working (without massive hacks to pulseaudio, etc) .. modem & text worked fine with ofono17:57
Siceloby *modem* i meant 23/3g17:58
Steven__Do you know what's required for the calls? Is it just awaiting upstream support in the kernel?17:58
Steven__Yeah, thats what I mean too.17:58
sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: yes, Maemo anything else is a bit pointless IMO17:59
Steven__I see. That is a little disappointing. =/17:59
sixwheeledbeast^that is unless you need to run something particular.18:00
Steven__I do like Maemo, but I would like to be able to try different things too.18:00
sixwheeledbeast^Parts of Maemo are closed so getting everything to work won't be possible at the moment.18:00
sixwheeledbeast^What ever you do don't install multiboot18:01
sixwheeledbeast^infobot is asleep I see.18:01
SiceloSteven__: if you're kernel-savvy, then is your friend18:01
Steven__You mean U-Boot? Why not? I thought that it wouldn't disturb Maemo too much to be able to boot off the SD-card?18:02
sixwheeledbeast^no not uboot, multiboot18:02
Steven__Sicelo: I have been looking at that page, though sometimes I miss needed detail because of lack of kernel knowledge.18:02
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Steven__sixwheeledbeast^: Do you mean two different distros on the eMMC?18:03
sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: multiboot, put very basically flashes the device on each switch, uboot is fine18:03
Steven__I am a bit confused as to what that would look like exactly.18:04
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Sicelowhat sixwheeledbeast^ is suggesting is that anything else on N900 besides Maemo is just proof-of-concept (which i agree with .. but of course, for some of us that's the fun of it)18:05
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Steven__Well, I have considered dual booting Maemo and Maemo. That is, a copy on the MMC that I don't mess with too much, and a copy on the SD-card that I can fiddle with without needing to reflash.18:07
sixwheeledbeast^Sicelo: Exactly, also wanted to point out the issue with multiboot18:07
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sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: you could just use backupmenu and restore a backup if there is an issue18:08
sixwheeledbeast^I find the keep it simple and don't install much is the best method for Maemo18:08
sixwheeledbeast^especially avoid widgetz18:09
Steven__Well, also I wanted my data in a LUKS container, but I didn't think it was a good idea to mess with the partitions on the EMMC.18:09
kerioemmc is fine to mess with18:10
kerionothing depends on the exact partition sizes18:10
keriopartition 1 is mydocs (vfat, unless you're using cssu i guess)18:10
keriopartition 2 is home18:10
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keriopartition 3 is swap18:10
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Steven__I have been studying that, but just the idea that if I mess something up I can immediately switch back to something that works as well as have a method of accessing it that is not through a flasher (e.g. by putting the card in a USB reader). That was my main consideration.18:12
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Steven__Do you use an SD-card then? Maybe just for data?18:13
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sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: I use a 64GB uSD for all data and two swap spaces.18:16
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Steven__Why two swap spaces?18:16
sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: well it's a bit weird yes but it's a way to keep the device snappy.18:19
Steven__By using multiple open allocation units on the SD-card for some sort of pseudo-parallel access?18:20
sixwheeledbeast^Steven__: It started a while ago, people moved there swap to uSD to lower the flash wear on the device but also after a while the swap becomes fragmented and slow (even on the device). So people made scripts to swapoff/on/off. I took this idea further and made flopswap.18:23
sixwheeledbeast^damn infobot18:23
kerioswapon+swapoff, surely18:24
sixwheeledbeast^the swapoff/on cycle basically defragments the swap. So no it's not discarded18:24
Steven__That looks pretty cool.18:24
Steven__nice work18:24
keriosixwheeledbeast^: is it really needed to swapoff?18:25
Steven__I mean discard as in trim/erase.18:25
keriocan't you set the new swap at a higher priority?18:25
kerioSteven__: that's not how emmc or sd cards work18:25
keriothere's nothing similar to TRIM18:25
kerioeven though it would make perfect sense18:25
Steven__SD-cards have an erase command.18:25
Steven__Trim & erase are called discard in mount.18:25
sixwheeledbeast^the idea behind flopswap is to only swapon/off once hence "flop" to another swap space.18:26
kerioyeah i had a script to do that as well, i called swapswap18:26
kerioSteven__: ...discard works on uSDs?18:26
Steven__lol these names.18:26
keriowhy the fuck haven't i used that18:26
Steven__They have erase and I have read that it is emitted by the driver when the mount is an SD-card.18:27
Steven__If discard is given that is.18:27
sixwheeledbeast^but the swap will still be fragmented until you swapoff. It's the fragmented swap that slows the device down.18:27
Steven__I do not think it is queued though, so it would be better to do it all at once when the device is idle rather than every write.18:27
Steven__So you would use fstrim.18:28
sixwheeledbeast^anyway it's a workaround for having a tiny amount of memory on the N90018:29
Steven__sixwheeledbeast^: Even after defrag you may have write-amplification because of the lack of freed sectors.18:29
Steven__The SD-card is going to do wear-levelling and garbage collection, which IIRC is more of a problem when an AU doesn't have enough pages marked free.18:30
Steven__Discard allows you to tell it that the space is available for writing.18:31
Steven__Though on an SD-card it involves doing an erase.18:31
kerioso SD cards actually support something similar like TRIP18:31
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Steven__kerio: Rather that erasing an erase block acts like TRIM.18:32
Steven__I think writing zeros (or ones, depending on the memory type) to the block acts the same way, though you have to actually tell it what to write in that case.18:33
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Steven__Erase blocks on my 64 GiB SD are 512kiB though.18:34
kerioyeah, that sounds like an obvious optimization in the controller18:34
Steven__So it may not be as big as advantage on a small thing like swap.18:34
newbieAlerthey! Anyone successful with GTK compilation for n900 ??18:34
kerio"if a page is zeroed, just erase it"18:34
kerioi wonder if remounting with discard will cause problems18:35
kerioalso, can vfat use discard?18:35
Steven__kerior: Actually it would be more along the lines  of "We are writing to this area, lets erase it! Oh, wait, this is all zeros, so lets not write anything."18:35
Steven__Uhm, yes.18:36
Steven__Lets see.18:36
Steven__Discard is a generic mount option.18:36
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kerioyeah but will it do anything18:36
Steven__So any partition that supports removing files that uses linux's mount should support discard.18:36
kerioalso i can't remount with discard :(18:37
SicelonewbieAlert: you've been asking a lot ... maybe tell what exactly you want to do .. then someone who knows moght be able to answer you properly18:37
Steven__Why is that?18:37
keriomount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home failed: Invalid argument18:37
kerioremounting /media/mmc1 with discard changed nothing in /proc/mounts18:38
Steven__newbieAlert: It is compiled for the N900, so someone somewhere would have had to have built it as some point.18:38
Steven__Maemo may be too old to support it.18:38
kerioyeah, i can't mount with discard :c18:38
kerioat least, not the vfat /media/mmc118:38
Steven__BTW, that reminds me of a small gripe I have: There are no man pages installed!18:39
keriothey're deleted18:39
Steven__If there was a man page, I could just read it to see if it has discard in it.18:39
kerioon every install18:39
keriobecause /usr has no fucking space18:40
Steven__Do they really take up that much space?18:40
Steven__being plain text and all18:40
Siceloyou can install them18:40
kerio/usr *really* has no fucking space18:40
Steven__One more reason for installing on the SD card..18:42
newbieAlertSicelo: Sorry if my questions bother you.. I need this gtk_widget_get_allocation. it is in gtk 2.13.7 not in 2.14.718:42
Steven__Also, no apropos.18:42
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newbieAlertSteven__: yeah.. i tried the same 2.14.7, make dist gave errors.18:43
SicelonewbieAlert: haha, you're not bothering me .. i just felt you will not get an answer with your previous question .. so i was basically saying rephrase. btw, i have no clue about gtk at all18:44
newbieAlertSicelo: I am just learnign how to compile applicationd for n900. i am trying to compile surf, betsurf & kazahakase ..18:44
Steven__newbieAlert: I don't really know much about building GTK. You might look through generic howtos and then try to transfer that over to something Maemo-specific.18:44
Siceloor see if that particualr function can't be backported or something18:45
newbieAlertSicelo: :) i thought i bothered you. ANyways, the error is related to make file like no target for xxx , req by yyy .. and i cant figure out any olution. :( thats why i asked about it, if anyone had it compiled.18:46
Steven__This is my current plan for partitioning the SD-card: vfat for sharing data, ext4 (no journal) for /boot, luks+swap, luks+btrfs.18:46
newbieAlertSicelo: i read somewhere that 2.14 can be pathe dfor the function..18:46
newbieAlertSteven__: Thank you for your time ..18:47
Steven__What do you need the function for? These programs you are porting? Could it be easier to patch the programs so they supported newer versions of GTK?18:47
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newbieAlertSteven__: yeah the make fails with undefined refrence for the function.18:48
newbieAlertSteven__: Ummm, that function is omitted after the GTK 2.13.7, so i dont think there will bea ny alternative for those functions.18:49
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Steven__I am not sure how critical that function is, since I don't know what you are looking at exactly. But you could try replacing calls from that function with something else (e.g. make up something generic that the function would have returned). It is a horrible hack but it may work in some cases.18:50
newbieAlertSteven__: that function is actually present in GTK#+ && GTK <2.13.718:53
Steven__Why was it removed? It looks like it gets an ajusted size that the widget is allocated... was probably replaced by something.18:54
Sicelois this related to Maemo btw?18:55
Steven__He is trying to compile something for Maemo.18:56
newbieAlertSteven__: ^^18:57
newbieAlertSicelo: yep.. for maemo only.18:57
secPeople are awake today ;o19:01
* sec waves19:01
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Steven__Hmm. I'm not quite sure how the interface changed, since that mail is talking about hypotheticals. I would recommend finding similar GUI designs that uses the version of GTK that Maemo has to see how they do the same task. That should suggest how to patch the thing you are trying to port.19:02
Steven__It doesn't look like something that would require a big rewrite.19:03
Steven__But then, I don't know much about GTK.19:03
Steven__Looks like from that mail it might be as small as changing a couple lines here and there where the missing function is called. Just find some examples that show you how to do that.19:04
Steven__Even better would be if you found a GUI that someone else did the same thing as you need to do, and you can look a the diffs from e.g. Github or something.19:05
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Steven__Just needs a bit of research.19:05
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newbieAlertSteven__: Thanks.. trying to find the same :)19:13
Steven__newbieAlert: Your welcome. I have found that looking for the right info makes a lot of these problems much much easier.19:15
freemangordonSteven__: if you want calls working with anything else but maemo, help me and jonwil to finish RE those closed PA modules19:28
Steven__I do, but I don't know that much about PA. What is needed?19:31
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Steven__I have some knowledge of mathematics, if that helps.19:31
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Steven__It is not really discrete math though...19:33
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Steven__freemangordon: I have been looking through the notes/code there. Are there any tasks you would recommend for someone less experienced? Most of it looks like stuff I am unfamiliar with.20:00
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Steven__sixwheeledbeast^: Does flopswap change any settings to make the size of the reads/writes with swap more optimal for an SD-card? Seeing as how the kernel page size is 4096 and the sd-card page size is often 8-16kB.20:14
Steven__According to my flashbench measurements on the Sandisk 64 GiB Ultra Plus: 16KiB page size (most efficient read size), 512KiB erase size, and 4MiB allocation units.20:17
Steven__Simultaneously open AUs looks like around 6.20:17
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stryngsFor interface wmaster0, can someone let me know what specifically this is?20:56
newbieAlertSteven__: Hey Sorry, Gtk was compiled into .so files. It was just that i could not make it into deb files. i will just copy the file o /lib20:59
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Sicelostryngs: documentation for mac80211 drivers21:07
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stryngsSicelo: hmm, k21:12
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newbieAlert  pkg-config returning error on pkg-confgi --libs gtk+-2.0.  Will resinstalling gtk help ??21:24
Steven__What error?21:27
stryngsSicelo: Could you help me for a moment?21:28
stryngsI'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, but i'm lost21:28
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Steven__Does the CSSU updates phase out proprietary components if FLOSS equivalents become available? Or is that left to the user to do?21:41
merlin1991cssu updates always install everything mentioned in the changelog21:47
merlin1991there might be more floss equivalents available, but all mentioned on the cssu pages are installed if you install the cssu updates21:47
Steven__I was really asking more of a policy question rather than specific changes.21:48
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merlin1991well policy wise we wanted to start a system where the user can choose, but never got around to implement it21:50
newbieAlertSteven__: .pc file missing from pkg-config.21:51
Steven__I see. So its mostly leave-it-alone if it is not causing problems, I guess?21:51
newbieAlertreinstallation is helping bu i need to install everything again.. :(21:51
Steven__newbieAlert: I see. I'm afraid I don't know much about how packages are set up on Maemo yet. Maybe someone else here would know.21:52
newbieAlertSteven__: need /usr/lib/pkgconfig folder, for default scratchbox21:53
Steven__Copy it in from another system?21:54
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newbieAlertSteven__: yep.. i think i will reset the scratchbox  :(21:59
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