IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2014-08-10

DocScrutinizer51bencoh: do you think it's just a coincidence that such idiotic mails happen when I'm in holiday and supposed to be offline?00:00
DocScrutinizer51I'd put that mail on public tmo thread right away, if only my internet woudn't suck donkeyballs. @council, whomever: please do!!!00:04
DocScrutinizer51win7mac outright denies tht ouncil is the highest authority proxy of community and suggests coucil "shall accept rules of the eV"00:05
DocScrutinizer51which is so weird I dunno words for it00:06
DocScrutinizer51also HiFo always been meant to "handle the assets of maemo" which in my book is a synonym for the cashier role. First Rob tried to redefine HiFo to be uebr-council, now win7mac does00:08
kerioDocScrutinizer51: haha he must be smoking some real good shit00:08
kerioHiFo is the council's bitch00:09
DocScrutinizer51always been00:09
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DocScrutinizer51but for win7mac reality splits into several parallel universes in which in one I claim that there are TWO councils, and in another one council dissolved when we actually unified it00:11
DocScrutinizer51in a third council turned into some fractional entity of HiFo obeying wjatever HiFo board decides00:12
DocScrutinizer51and in a fouty parallel universe, all this even makes sense to everybody with a sane mind00:14
DocScrutinizer51while I scared away Rob due to me not undertsanding the perfect sense this makes00:14
DocScrutinizer51I just notice winUmac being *very* vocal and just 'hijacking' the less experienced novice council members00:16
DocScrutinizer51I mean, what shit is that to show up on every council meeting and sending mails to council, always 'speaking in stern voice' lile you were the one to decide?00:19
DocScrutinizer51while in fact you got no voice at all00:19
Sicelofreemangordon: on my N900 with KP52, CSSU-T, no O/C, I installed the tweaks for 720p videos. Since that day, I have noticed that video playback is bad -- many times N900 just shows the dots with nothing happening. FWIW, I'm not trying to play 720p videos (because i guess that's what really needs O/C).00:24
Siceloany idea how i can debug what's up?00:25
bencohwhat are those tweaks btw ?00:29
Siceloi probably could just remove .. but would like to find out what's up00:32
DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: first up check syslog00:34
Siceloi saw reference to pulseaudio00:35
DocScrutinizer51I see similar issue without any tweaks installed. Syslog often tells sth about 'can't instantiate dsp node' OWTTE00:35
DocScrutinizer51PA also a good candidate, yes00:36
DocScrutinizer51syslog is your best friend, just a tad verbous at times, with lots of noise and random stuff to ignore00:37
Sicelook. tbh, i don't play videos too often, so i've gleft this 'problem' alone for the last couple of months. but now i have a "need" to play videos on my N900 frequentyl00:38
Sicelo s/gleft/left/00:38
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Siceloafter reboot, all plays fine00:50
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DocScrutinizer51yes, this is a known issue caused by dsp shitting its pants, though I thought that got fixed long ago. PA might cause absolutely same symptoms though00:53
Win7MacOpen letter to the new council, topic: Community, Council, Board and the MC eV:
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Win7Macand no, that doesn't come just by coincidence when someone is on holiday, but from RzR's request during last meeting:
DocScrutinizer51o the NEW council. WTF?01:21
DocScrutinizer51already the headline/subject insinuating that lesson-like tone the complete original amil had, to teach NEW councilors how stuff *really* works, from the lips of a prophet who just signs with his nickname to put the authorization of whole mail into  right context01:25
Win7Macit is my POV01:26
DocScrutinizer51then why the fuck does it sound like it was from chair of HiFo?01:27
Win7Macno clue?01:27
DocScrutinizer51exactly. this is pretty obvious01:27
DocScrutinizer51throughout the whole maill01:28
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Win7MacI signed with my full name + nick, no idea what "authorization" your speaking of ^^, never intended to speak on HiFos' behalf01:34
Win7Mac...though they very likely agree ;)01:35
DocScrutinizer51no, HiFo did NOT agree, even before your time. And you assuming they'd do agree now and writing your mail in a way as if they already did is a pretty rogue approach01:36
DocScrutinizer51you rvidently lack lots of well documenteed historic background and compensate that by making up your own version of how the situation allegedly is and was01:38
DocScrutinizer51we all appreciate your hard work to make the much needed eV come true01:39
DocScrutinizer51but please do"mt try to redefine stuff to your liking01:39
bencohlooks like no harm intented then ;)01:40
Win7Macthen state your version so that others may make up their own mind and decide what to believe or not01:40 my liking... funny...01:41
Win7MacWhat interest do I have then, in your imagination?01:42
DocScrutinizer51"d 'my' version is well documented, publicly01:44
DocScrutinizer51I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you sentence by sentence, quoting links to original sources01:45
DocScrutinizer51more than I already did01:45
DocScrutinizer51more on that in roundabout three weeks when I might be back to this mess from my well deserved holiday01:46
Win7Macand the others...? please share your thoughts!01:54
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DocScrutinizer51maybe the most of 'the others' wait until they heard of more than only your persona POV before they share their thoughts. E.G. council might want to discuss this before answering, and that might happen on other channels than tmo02:03
Win7Macaha, however it fits your liking I guess, but acusing me of acting "behind the scenes"...
freemangordonWin7Mac: right now I have no time to read the mail in question, probably will do it tomorrow. However, so far my understanding is that you think HiFo is some kind of what Nokia used to be for Maemo council back in the times Nokia supported Maemo. Which is plain wrong, IMO02:14
freemangordonHiFo is the organizational entity to officially represent the community. and that's all (simplified)02:16
freemangordonHiFo is not the council's boss, more like on the opposite02:16
Win7Macok, and council is?02:17
freemangordonagain, IMO. And as you know I am not a lawyer, so I might be wrong as well02:17
freemangordonthe council is defined on the maemo wiki02:17
Win7Macsure. and that needs adoption02:17
freemangordonwho decided that?02:18
freemangordonand when?02:18
DocScrutinizer51says who?02:18 reflect the situation?!02:18
freemangordonthe only way one can redefine what maemo council is is a referendum, iirc the rules02:18
Win7Macwell, read the mail first then...02:19
Win7Macin whole...02:19
freemangordonwill do tomorrow02:19
DocScrutinizer51but Win7Mac  got told about that 3 dozen times already, he ignores it02:19
freemangordonI was just sharing thoughts about what I have heard from you so far02:19
* freemangordon is afk for a while02:20
Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, where did I ignore that, I'm actually suggesting a referendum!02:20
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DocScrutinizer51he first defines "the situation" as he sees it, then demands action from council taken to adoopt rules to match what he thinks is "the situation" and ignores that the council is bound to rules on what it can do02:22
DocScrutinizer51yeah a referendum approving your POV to be real and binding for council, and only as a last resort when council isn't willingto simply do rogue and ignore the council rules and follow *your tules* instead02:24
* DocScrutinizer51 definitely afk/offine now02:25
Win7Macwhat's wrong with "- specify council duties so that it remains the major active party of community work AND honours the fact that Nokia got replaced by our own community organization, not only in regards to board"02:25
Win7Macfreemangordon: correct, HiFo is not the council's boss, but council, as part of the organization, has to follow organizations' rules02:30
DocScrutinizer51well, pretty much everything is wrong in that. I could start with explaining that council's responsibilities are defined and continue with elaborating about nonsense to "replace" Nokia - as freemangordon alrewady said. and so on. But whatt's a real problem with you: you can't accept a 'later please, busy now'02:31
DocScrutinizer51you even go to insult people when they refuse to follow your requests instantly02:34
DocScrutinizer51we're not your slaves02:34
DocScrutinizer51and I'm not available now, particularly for this topic and for you, for the next 3 weeks02:35
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freemangordonWin7Mac: the council should follow its own rules, as defined by the community. However, I just read that mail and honestly, I am not sure what stands behind your wish to somehow redefine what is the cashier’s(HiFo) role and what is the executive's(the council) role. HiFo was established as an legal entity to represent the community where and when needed and that's all. It was never meant to be the driving force or to draw the future of the community. thi02:39
freemangordons is the council's role. IIUC. Keep in mind that I may got confused by that wall of text and missed the idea02:39
freemangordonWin7Mac: And I still don't get it why moving HiFo from USA to Europe should make any difference in the regard on who does what.02:43
freemangordons/ on / of /02:43
infobotfreemangordon meant: Win7Mac: And I still don't get it why moving HiFo from USA to Europe should make any difference in the regard of who does what.02:43
DocScrutinizer51clearly must not02:44
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Win7Macwho does what doesn't change02:44
infobotwell, xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.02:44
Win7Macand i don't mean to redefine what is the cashier’s(HiFo) role...02:46
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Win7MacBut I don't see HiFo/MC eV as cashier only, that simply goes too short02:47
DocScrutinizer51then you're simply mistakwn02:48
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freemangordonanyway, I am going to have some sleep, will re-read that mail tomorrow with a more rested brain, maybe I will get the whole idea02:49
freemangordonnight guys02:49
Win7Macthanks fmg, nite o/02:49
DocScrutinizer51and when you don't beleive me and freemangordon and all the others who told you, ask woody who 'invented' HiFo02:50
Win7Maclets continue this on tmo02:50
Win7MacDocScrutinizer05: no wonder you don't WANT to understand...02:52
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DocScrutinizer51pleqse stop that nonsense, it's not only bad style, it also heats up the channel temperature02:54
DocScrutinizer51and it contributes absolutely ZILCH to resolve this issue which is YOU disagreeing with roundabouteverybody else (not just me) and alsol you ignore HiFo's own blogs, all tmo threads about HiFo and council and even deny to ask your peers in HiFo who most liely also do NOTagree with you onthis02:57
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DocScrutinizer51"EIN geisterfahrer? HUNDERTE!!"02:59
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DocScrutinizer51when for some reason you want to change the way maemo community and organizationl entites work, then there's exactly ONE way to push that: start a thread on tmo or even better on ML and and begin with explaining the problem you think you spotted. Then list your ideas how to improve/fix the issue, first things first. And finally ask for (constructive) criticism, create a synthesis from your and other members' contributions and notions and tr03:21
DocScrutinizer51y to convince *the community* to support your plan/synthesis. This regularly will result in *council* starting a referendum to fulfill what *community* wants03:21
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DocScrutinizer51suggesting a referenum to council in a private email doesn't make sense since council would at least need to do the same first 3 steps like I suggested to you above03:25
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DarkFoxHello world, just wondering if anyone here could give me a number to expect to charge a N900 from flat to bootable ?10:14
* DarkFox has had an N900 charging for a good 5-10 minutes now and not booting... Not sure the exact power given from my laptop but I haven't had this issue with my other N900 [when that worked].10:14
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber shut off -> start over again with ~flatbatrecover while already searching for a new battery. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs OK (no ~bootloop)10:16
keriogot it10:16
DarkFoxThanks guys10:16
DarkFoxI shall try this10:16
* DarkFox was trying different batteries; but wallcharger... Let me find that ;)10:17
DarkFoxWait; I see amber light now with USB; didn't have this before.10:18
DarkFoxShould I just leave it with USB power ?10:19
* DarkFox did find the charger :P10:19
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DarkFoxSwapped over10:20
* DarkFox leaves it for 30 minutes10:21
* DarkFox sets up a backup battery (N95 + it's charger)10:21
kerioDarkFox: it will barely charge via usb during emergency charging10:21
kerioit's like 100mA10:21
keriothe wallcharger (in emergency charging) charges 250mA10:22
DarkFoxkerio: I've switched, so charger is active; I'm just about to plug in my N95 to the UPS as well.10:22
DarkFoxN95 = great backup N900 charger... As proven with my first N900 whose USB port is dead.10:23
DarkFoxI'd soldier it back on - if the screws weren't butchered.10:23
DarkFoxHence I have 2 :)10:23
DarkFoxBeep -> Naww, just the N95 :C Lol10:24
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DarkFox~/n900 >> flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -u10:25
DarkFoxError reading FIASCO header: Success10:25
DarkFox> Not finished downloading; ignore that. Error still misleading10:25
* DarkFox lets phone charge and image download.10:26
* DarkFox goes afk. Thanks kerio 10:26
infobotit has been said that bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.10:30
infobotrumour has it, rescueos is
kerioSicelo: can't even load rescueos if the battery's too low10:32
Siceloyes, i am aware. my N900 is fine ;)10:33
Sicelobut of course, it is BME which 'rushes' to shut the device down, so you actually can load rescueOS when the battery is less than BME Threshold (3248mV, right?), but as long as it is above 3000mV10:36
DarkFox~/n900 >> sudo flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode10:51
DarkFox^ While holding 'u' when trying to power it on. Shouldn't this simply work?10:51
DarkFoxBus 003 Device 025: ID 0421:01c7 Nokia Mobile Phones N900 (Storage Mode)10:53
DarkFoxlsusb ^10:53
Sicelowhy you want rd-mode by the way?10:54
DarkFoxSicelo: Trying to test communication to the phone currently; soon to reflash it.10:55
Sicelothe best way to get into flashing mode is to start the flasher before connecting the device10:55
DarkFoxIt's been a couple of years since I last used this.10:55
DarkFoxSicelo: Yea... That's what I'm trying :)10:56
DarkFox  -i, --read-device-id        Print out the device type10:56
DarkFox~/n900 >> flasher-3.5 -i10:56
DarkFoxflasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009)10:56
DarkFoxSuitable USB device not found, waiting.10:56
* DarkFox boots phone while holding 'u'10:56
DarkFoxNo usb symbol10:56
Siceloi must say i'm also no longer too sure about the 'u' thing (my device has only been flashed once in its entire life) .. but i don't remember needing to use "u" key10:57
DarkFoxWorked this time; didn't before. and forgot to run this as root this time; so... device is busy now...10:57
DarkFoxTrying again10:58
DarkFoxError claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy10:59
DarkFoxmodprobe -r cdc_phonet11:05
DarkFoxDownload ETA 30 seconds...11:07
DarkFoxFlashing kernel11:08
keriobut why11:08
DarkFoxSending rootfs11:08
DarkFoxkerio: This second N900 of mine was (also) 2nd hand and the previous owner forgot the pin.11:09
DarkFoxAnd so; reflash to fix :P11:09
kerioi see11:09
DarkFoxGot the first N900 for $120 off eBay couple years back; this second one for $35 from the local LUG here. :D11:09
DarkFoxRebooting! \o/11:10
DarkFoxKernel infos in green on white \o/11:10
* DarkFox hugs N90011:11
DarkFoxWorks :D11:11
DarkFoxThis dot animation :P11:11
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DarkFoxLong long animation11:11
* DarkFox deosn't remember it taking this long11:11
DarkFoxAlso, second reason to flashing is complementary to being 2nd hand; who knows what the previous owner had on the phone. Could have spyware or private data.11:12
DarkFoxNot that the image I pushed would preserve /home...11:12
DarkFoxOh well11:12
DarkFoxkerio: To get rid of the pin; must I reflash the entire device? D:11:13
DarkFoxJust flashed it 'RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin' but pin still active...11:13
infobotsomebody said pin was $1 <action> laughs as darkfox gets $1 in a headlock while screaming 'Say Uncle!'11:13
* DarkFox facepaw11:13
DarkFox!pin kerio11:14
DarkFox~pin kerio11:14
* infobot laughs as darkfox gets kerio in a headlock, screaming 'Say Uncle!'11:14
infobotlockcode is, like,
DarkFoxHow fun11:15
DarkFoxssh kinda not doable atm :D11:16
kerioDarkFox: yeah it wasn't a good idea tbh11:16
kerioanyway, you just need rescueOS11:16
kerioand you can easily crack the pin11:16
kerioby reading CAL11:16
DarkFoxRescueOS sounds useful ;)11:16
infobotmethinks rescueos is
kerioyou need to read CAL11:16
kerioaka /dev/mtd2?11:17
DarkFoxkerio: Sounds like booting from SD card?11:17
kerionah, usb11:17
DarkFoxVia flasher?11:17
kerioyou just load it11:17
DarkFoxETA: 1 minute11:18
DarkFox"No initfs \o/" - N90011:21
DarkFox~/n900 >> sudo flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n rescueOS-1.1.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0"11:25
DarkFoxkerio: This look right?11:25
DarkFoxMethod is not supported in the current mode11:25
DarkFoxSU_VERIFY_COMMS_REQ timed out.11:25
DarkFoxGetting the same problem with -i now11:28
DarkFoxflasher not working :/11:28
DarkFoxThink I got it to work now11:29
DarkFoxkerio: Powered off phone, removed battery; now I have rescue; thanks. :)11:29
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DarkFox~/n900 >> john -format:DES -i:digits lock-code11:35
* DarkFox waits11:36
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DarkFoxLoaded 1 password hash (Traditional DES [128/128 BS SSE2-16])11:40
DarkFoxguesses: 0  time: 0:00:00:38 DONE (Sun Aug 10 18:40:10 2014)  c/s: 2880K  trying: 83593867 - 8353678411:40
DarkFox~/n900 >> john -show lock-code11:40
DarkFox0 password hashes cracked, 1 left11:40
DarkFoxIf this doesn't work; I'm gonna edit it so it uses something that someone else already cracked :P11:42
keriodon't edit /dev/mtd devices directly11:43
DarkFoxkerio: Naww ;)11:44
DarkFoxWhat am I doing wrong ^11:44
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DarkFoxMy N900 decided to partiall load the firstboot setup11:45
DarkFoxBut then it rebooted11:46
keriofriday night, another round of shots11:46
bencohwhat what what11:47
* DarkFox loading rescue again11:47
* DarkFox looked away from his computer to look back to see it was done already :P11:47
* Luke-Jr wonders how to interpret
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DarkFoxEvil typo in the FP vs PF11:53
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DarkFoxLuke-Jr: Good question12:02
DarkFoxAnyhow; thanks again kerio  ^,^12:02
DarkFoxkerio: How difficult do you think it would be to have an sd card in my other N900 (broken usb port) to turn the wifi or bluetooth into a remote loader? :312:07
DarkFoxI think it might be a fun project after I end up playing with nanobsd on this phone :P12:11
* DarkFox 's booted phone doesn't charge... Hmmm12:14
DarkFoxLooks like it's fine now that I've removed the battery :)12:15
Luke-Jrwait, it's charging without the battery?12:16
Luke-Jrhow does that work?12:16
DarkFoxLuke-Jr: Removed, and reinserted*12:16
Luke-Jrah ok12:16
* DarkFox had to just john --show lock-code ;)12:17
* DarkFox should change it :D12:17
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DarkFoxCharging \o/12:17
* DarkFox should have setup usbnetworking+ftp in that rescueos... passphrase for wifi is crazy long and well... random :D12:18
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infobothmm... rescueos is
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kerioDarkFox: there's usb networking and ftp13:06
DarkFoxkerio: I'm trying that :P13:07
DarkFoxkerio: What commands on my host system to even get this? :D13:07
DarkFoxI like it's scripts that it has itself... But need a host script :P13:07
kerioanyway, you should've installed uboot on the n900 with the broken usb13:08
DarkFoxkerio: Indeed13:08
DarkFoxkerio: Too late now13:08
DarkFoxI was going to13:08
kerionow it's too risky13:08
DarkFoxAnd then it broke13:08
DarkFoxkerio: After running the scripts in the rescue os...13:10
DarkFoxkerio: How to get it to connect to my lan? :P13:10
DarkFoxOr at least; let my host connect to it's ftp :P13:12
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kerioDarkFox: ifconfig usb0 up14:09
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DocScrutinizer51only if your local LAN isn't already on 192.168.2.x15:15
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* DocScrutinizer51 ultimately instructs to use for N900 USB IP *only*15:16
Palior use some private ipv6 prefix15:20
DocScrutinizer51when you try to ifup a NIC with an IP in range of already established network, you're begging for trouble15:20
DarkFoxkerio: Yea, that wasn't it; I did get it a while back.15:20
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DarkFoxIt gives me two interfaces (on my host) I just had to assign myself an ip and setup the route on the virtual ethernet (not the peer-to-peer,noarp device which I first tried)15:21
DocScrutinizer51hi Pali - long time no see! :))15:21
DarkFoxkerio: But yea; thanks anyway. :)15:21
* DarkFox likes the rescueOS :D15:21
DocScrutinizer51good to see you aeround15:21
DocScrutinizer51maemo isn't same without you15:22
* DarkFox wonders if anyone has a minimal nanobsd image that works on the N900?15:24
jon_yBSD? Why would you use that? :)15:24
DocScrutinizer51wgat for?15:24
DarkFoxjon_y: Because it's a great system?15:25
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DocScrutinizer51errrr forgetit15:25
DarkFoxDocScrutinizer51: Nice base system that I could use for testing a custom operating system that I intend to design.15:25
DarkFoxOr rather, I've designed most of it; and would like to use the N900 as a test platform. :P15:26
infobot[fptf] the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see
DocScrutinizer51also about freeing fremantle15:26
DarkFoxWhat's this?15:27
DocScrutinizer51there's a reason for some of the closed blobs15:27
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jon_yBSD is the last thing I think of when Freedom is involved :)15:28
DocScrutinizer51maemo is as free as it gets already, nothing a bsd could do better15:28
DarkFoxjon_y: Why?15:28
jon_yat least proprietory software is up front about it15:28
DarkFoxjon_y: BSD is more free..15:28
jon_yBSD is enabler of proprietary15:28
DarkFoxjon_y: Enables, but it is less restrictive.15:28
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DarkFoxSimplier and you don't need to be a lawyer to read the license.15:29
jon_yexactly, it is poisonous to Free software15:29
jon_ybecause it doesn't stay Free15:29
DarkFoxNo it doesn't...15:29
jon_ypersonally, I don't consider BSD Free software15:29
jon_ybut nvm me, I'm starting to rant15:30
DarkFoxPlease; no license wars... BSD is an open source license. FreeBSD is an operating system where basically everything is licensed BSD. This allows you to create something propritary (such as sony's playstation) without the requirement to return the code.15:30
DarkFoxEven in Sony's case, they do send code back to the community.15:30
DarkFoxApple too.15:30
DocScrutinizer51please no os wars here15:30
DarkFoxDocScrutinizer51: License even.15:30
jon_yno os wars, just license wars15:31
DarkFoxjon_y: None of this either!15:31
jon_ypssh Apple15:31
jon_yor Sony15:31
DocScrutinizer51on N900 fremantle with powerkernel is best you can get regarding support for all hw and openness as well15:31
DarkFoxjon_y: BSD is more free (less restrictive) then GPL.15:31
DarkFoxjon_y: Fact is over.15:32
jon_yif they're sending back code then there is no problem with GPL15:32
jon_ynope, it is less Free because it does not protect Freedom at all15:32
DarkFoxjon_y: GPL is a problem with licensing... It puts restraints on anyone who wants to do anything with it.15:32
DarkFoxHassle and can lead to ugly legal issues.15:32
DocScrutinizer51please move it to #bsd15:33
DarkFoxjon_y: IF you want to continue the license war then please /msg me15:33
DarkFoxDocScrutinizer51: Hell no, jon_y would probally get kicked15:33
DarkFoxOr worse, banned.15:33
DocScrutinizer51or you both begg be to kick you here ;-P15:33
DocScrutinizer51beg me15:34
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DocScrutinizer51please consider I'm paying for each singe byte of data roaming to read what you write while I'm supposed to enjoy my holidays15:35
DocScrutinizer51and hell they still charge an arm and a leg for that15:36
DocScrutinizer51when you want moden kernel see what freemangordon achieved already, reports are on fptf thread15:38
DocScrutinizer51when you want an os without closed blobs youre free to delete them from maemo to end up with a plain debian15:39
DarkFoxDocScrutinizer51: LOL15:40
DocScrutinizer51no need for bsd or openwrt just to go 'more free'15:40
DarkFoxCharging us for the ineffecient text-based protocol known as IRC.15:40
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DarkFoxUh oh...15:44
DarkFoxApp manager on a fresh maemo install; no updates.15:45
DarkFoxIs this due to Nokia not renewing their certificate?15:45
DocScrutinizer51I think IRC prot is quite efficient as long as chanops take care of layer8 noise ;)15:45
DocScrutinizer51DarkFox: there are no 'updates' on maemo15:46
DocScrutinizer51go for CSSU15:46
infobotwell, cssu is
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DocScrutinizer51even there no rolling updates though I pushed for that since years15:47
DocScrutinizer51you however get updayes on maemo-extras(-*) but only for packages you installed from there. On a fresh install zilch is from extras on ur system15:48
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DocScrutinizer51and even when u install sth now from extras, it will be newest version and any update will come up in days or weeks the fastest15:50
DocScrutinizer51maemo stock didn't change since PR1.3?q15:50
DocScrutinizer511.3.1 even15:50
infobotwell, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or
DocScrutinizer51no updates expected on that15:52
DocScrutinizer51maemo is special in that it's a single huge metapackage aka PR15:53
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DocScrutinizer51and NEVER do apt-get upgrade or even dist-upgrade!15:53
DocScrutinizer51I think nobody everwrote the much needed "what's maemo" 20p primer15:55
DocScrutinizer51Nokia seems to always have thought it all 'just works' and users are too stupid to even grok the concept of pathbanes15:56
DocScrutinizer51see incredibly fsckdup-by-design meta filesystem based on tracker15:57
DocScrutinizer51CSSU antway is supposed to come in where Nokia left, providing security fixes and *compatible* functionality updates that Nokia missed to ever deliver16:00
DocScrutinizer51"d powerkernel brings back expert functons that nokia kicked out in favor for a more lean easier to maintain kenel16:01
DocScrutinizer51andeven kernel bugfixes16:03
DocScrutinizer51and now even a workaround for a silicon error that rendered thumb ISA useless16:04
DocScrutinizer51kudos to freemangordon who pulled this thumb stuff off despite *everybody* antagonizing him16:05
DocScrutinizer51even I did, to a certain degree16:06
drathirin short cssu rocks...16:14
* drathir goin to reflash n900 with broken screen...16:16
DocScrutinizer51broken screen? LCD or touchpanel aka digitizer, or even just the main flex?16:18
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drathirDocScrutinizer51: connector from lcd not egsist sadly when i checked reason of no video output...16:54
drathirscreen maybe works but w/o plug at end not possible to connect...16:55
DocScrutinizer51where the plug gone?16:56
drathirdigitizer maybe works but no possibility to check - no output on the tv-out...16:56
drathirDocScrutinizer51: no idea i buyed that...16:57
drathirbut motherboard looks ok i switched upper slider with screen from my second n900 with broken usb port and motherboard work camera works...16:59
drathirmaybe soon i buy once more with broken usb and switch the upper slider with screen only...17:00
drathirnow i using that with broken screen for battery charging...17:01
drathirhave 2 batteries that switch them time to time...17:02
DocScrutinizer51I still don't understand if it's the main fleex cable that ripped off17:02
DocScrutinizer51or actually that tiny cable frm LCD to main flex inside upper half17:02
DocScrutinizer51you can get replacement main flex xable for a few bucks17:07
drathiroh thats good description the correct is tiny one from main to lcd...17:11
drathirsadly have no plug at end...17:11
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drathirand main bigger connection from motherboard to inside where lcd is connected to (by thin one which is damaged not plug at end) looks ok...17:15
DocScrutinizer51aah. A pity17:17
DocScrutinizer51probably somebody made plug come off the cable when trying to unplug it17:18
* drathir dont know why lcd-s not have also plugs at bottom side which could be easy to replace if damaged, propably to expensive i guess...17:20
drathirDocScrutinizer51: yea for sure because when opening the scrub from screen was in back case where shorter one antenna is ;p17:21
DocScrutinizer51new LCD is some 25 to 49EUR17:21
drathirDocScrutinizer51: yea cheaper is buy damaged phone with working lcd, and improve amount of parts for exchange in future...17:22
drathirmostly with damaged phone battery and charger included...17:23
drathirthat one i buy ~10-12EUR17:24
bencohwow, chheap17:25
drathirbencoh: yea that why i take it almost in blind... battery looks like new one...17:38
DocScrutinizer51batteries always *look* like new ;) You tell if they really *re* by doing a full charge from emty to full and then back to empty while recording the output of bq27200 6017:41
infobotwell, bq27k-detail is
drathirDocScrutinizer51: thanks i goin to check...17:46
DocScrutinizer51use, not bq27k-detail217:47
drathircurently at n900 monitor show more than 1000mAh after full charhe...17:48
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DocScrutinizer51      mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP17:51
DocScrutinizer5116:03 4153 100  100  -12  1110 1110 1110 65535 2773  40  NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:017:51
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drathirDocScrutinizer51: which one vaule is important?18:00
drathirlol show 0 ;p18:01
DocScrutinizer51which is plain charge in mAh now metered to have gone into cell18:01
drathiroh when connected...18:02
drathirneed to first end reflashing and enable sshd usbip and wlan connection...18:02
DocScrutinizer51it's an incremental integrating value18:02
DocScrutinizer51after swapping battery it will start at bogus value. then you discharge cell complely and then charge it. BQ27200 chip will integrate the charge going into cell during charge and showing it as NAC18:04
DocScrutinizer51so during charging empty cell NAC goes up from 0 to ideally 130018:05
drathirthanks i check great script btw...18:06
DocScrutinizer51I'm running 60 | tee batlog.txt18:07
drathirDocScrutinizer51: thanks logging..18:24
* drathir wonder need to switch the working screen when perform to flashing device?18:37
DocScrutinizer51actually after completing charging it tells you the amount that went *into* the cell during charging. But the really interesting value is the difference of this value minus the last value it reads before it shuts down on DIScharge. NAC will count down from e.g. 1266 during discharge but may shut down when NAC claims there were 200 left over. So true discharge capacity of cell is 1266-200=106618:38
DocScrutinizer51a valid discharge cycle (VDQ=1) will ake bq27200 chip *learn* this value of 1066 as new real max capacity of cell18:41
drathiroh... in that case is possible that chip have incorrect data and not charging the battery to full?18:45
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ShadowJKNo it doesn't control charging18:47
drathirShadowJK: thats good...18:47
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: you paid for this!19:34
keriothat message, and this one too19:35
keriodrathir: when doc says "integrate" he means "sum"19:37
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drathirkerio: thanks...19:46
* drathir now waitin to full charge battery and perform flash-ing n900 that one with broken screen...19:47
drathirbut guess is too old RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin19:49
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drathirand that one too RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin19:50
DocScrutinizer51both looks good to me19:52
DocScrutinizer51without betting my ass on me being right19:53
DocScrutinizer5136-2 is PR1.319:53
DocScrutinizer51good enough19:53
DocScrutinizer5113-2VANILLA prolly also OK, as new as it gets19:54
drathirO.o im was almost sure that much newest available because of date 14.11.2012... but looks im bad thinking...19:57
drathirand yes if good remember its PR1.319:59
drathirneed only refresh procedure and which one keys to press...20:01
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infobotrumour has it, maemo-flashing is
DocScrutinizer51in short: BLACKLIST the phonet* crap on your PC! Start flasher for COMBINED. Only then plug in the N900 with battery removed. Insert battery. Watch flashing to start. Wait for flashing process to complete. Unplug and remove battery.20:15
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DocScrutinizer51Redo for VANILLA20:16
DocScrutinizer51Then *again* for COMBINED20:16
keriocan 0xFFFF flash everything? or are we still tied to the closed-source flasher to flash VANILLA?20:17
DocScrutinizer510xFFFF *can* flash everything afaik20:17
DocScrutinizer51ask Pali20:18
Pali0xFFFF cannot flash eMMC20:18
Palifor eMMC flashing is used Mk II protocol and it is not implemented20:19
Palisome info is in doc/20:19
Palianybody has time for it? :-)20:19
keriodo we even need that?20:20
kerioPali: can it boot from ram?20:20
Pali0xFFFF? yes20:20
keriowell then it's more than enough20:20
Paliyes, you can create kernel+init image ready for flashing via standard usb mass storage interface20:21
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kerioyeah, just load rescueOS and then restore a BM backup or something like htat20:28
DocScrutinizer51actually that's pretty much exactly what flasher mk II protocol does as well20:33
DocScrutinizer51just it uses the existing rootfs OS on target, that's why you need a semi-decent rootfs aka COMBINED to flash VANILLA20:35
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DocScrutinizer51actually 'flashing' vanilla only means: partition and format the eMMC, then copy a few files to /home and to MyDocs20:45
kerioyeah yeah20:51
keriodoes it even copy files to /home?20:52
kerioi thought it was done during firstboot20:52
DocScrutinizer51I'm not sure20:55
DocScrutinizer51it*could* copy files to /home20:56
Palidir /opt is some symlink to /home20:58
Paliand it /home/user is created at boot time if does not exists20:59
Paliand stock rootfs has some script which will rm -rf opt && optify20:59
Paliand that script is run only once (store some info if was started or not)20:59
Paliflashing eMMC should call mkfs on /home partition and equivalanet of dd if=mmc_image of=/dev/...21:00
Paliso if /opt (/home) FS is damaged (because of FS errors), flashing only rootfs does not help21:01
Pali(any idea how to write regular IRC message to channel which starting with slash?)21:02
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Humpelstilzchentry /say /opt21:03
Humpelstilzchenif irssi21:03
Palinice :-)21:03
drathirDocScrutinizer51: thanks a lot21:05
nox-some clients also understand // or \/21:05
DocScrutinizer51or use double/21:07
DocScrutinizer51/like this21:07
DocScrutinizer51actually I typed //like this21:07
Paliright //test working too21:07
DocScrutinizer51or simply us leading space21:08
DocScrutinizer51Pali: for sure no dd if=sth of=/dev/... is used21:09
DocScrutinizer51rather some tar -x21:10
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drathirif nokia sound able to hear flashing sucessfull?21:21
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drathiror space before /21:25
drathirw/o  screen replace not able to check if flashed successfully... hrhr21:27
drathirbut flasher end w/o problems...21:27
drathiri guess no possibility to connect from linux w/o screen replace ;p21:31
bencohI guess you could load rescueos and edit your rootfs to enable usb0 on boot21:32
infobotsomebody said rescueos was
DocScrutinizer51shift+ctrl+X gives you a shell aka xterm21:34
DocScrutinizer51you could type blindly there21:35
bencohbtw do you guys really use osso-xterm ?21:35
DocScrutinizer51sure, what else?21:35
bencohI settled for ("real") xterm21:36
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DocScrutinizer51hmm, I prolly never even tested that21:43
bencohit's faster than libvte (gnome implementation, used in osso-xterm) ... really noticeable with curses applications (hello irssi over ssh), and huge impact when scrolling, especially with "small" fonts21:49
bencoh(libvte is not the only one to blame, freetype has its part in this ... and xterm can use fixed fonts without freetype)21:50
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drathirok looks like also gsm damaged...22:29
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PaliDocScrutinizer51: no, fiasco emmc image contains *raw* fat32 fs dump and that is imaged directly as MyDocs22:32
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Palino tar is used22:33
Palithis is reason why mmc image is too big22:33
Paliit is not compressed and contains empty fat blocks....22:33
DocScrutinizer51Pali: then resizing partitions by imply editing numeric size in vanilla image would be a terribly bad idea, nevertheless it allegedly works22:35
DocScrutinizer51also when you want to do a raw fat32 data transfer then you invariably of used size of data need to dd the size of whole 28GB of volume22:36
DocScrutinizer51which wouldn't make *any* sense22:37
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DocScrutinizer51maybe you could dd a complete fat32 volume of only 500MB size and then resize it with some parted tool22:39
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DocScrutinizer51anyway afaik flashing vanilla is mostly cruft spamming your mydocs with useless 'content', except of the partitioning and mkfs which you could do without any vanilla image as well22:44
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DocScrutinizer51so discussing how that cruft content gets stored in vanilla imae and how it's written to eMMC is maybe just of academic interest22:46
Palithat is part of mk II protocol22:48
DocScrutinizer51the partitioning and mkfs is clearly the more useful part of this 'flashing' procedure and it would help a lot to come up with an alternative to using flasher and flashing vanilla to get this established22:48
Palisome info how cfdisk and mkfs is called22:49
Paliplus dump of image which is dd-ed22:49
Palithis is in mmc fiasco image22:49
DocScrutinizer51I guess mkII is putting maemo into some single-user mode (init 1 or init s) and then transfers a few cli commads to it, to make cfdisk and mhfs of maemo do their job on eMMC22:53
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Paliit is packet orientated protocol it support transfering commands and data...22:58
Palilook at 0xFFFF doc/ dir22:58
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Paliand that protocol is used via usb (for normal flashing) and also via TCP for local on device flashing22:59
Paliyou have "flasher" command on n90022:59
Paliused with param --local22:59
Palibut it use TCP connection to localhost22:59
Paliand not using raw /dev/... access22:59
Paliserver is called softupd (which listening on usb and on localhost port)23:00
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keriolibvte is fucking pathetic23:16
kerioit violates the basic principle of terminal control codes23:16
keriowhich is "ignore shit you don't know of"23:16
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drathirwhat is the easiest way to gain root access?23:26
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infobot[root] not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.23:27
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drathirwifi working...23:27
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infobotwell, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:, or, or <ShadowJK> rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -")23:33
keriorootsh is fucking awful23:33
bef0rdcan't remember the name of the alternative23:34
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drathirfrom fast checking camera working, memory working...23:39
drathirbef0rd: thanks...23:39
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drathirkerio: installed23:39
keriooh, openssh23:39
keriowell now you have root23:39
keriossh root@localhost23:39
kerioand then add a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ and update-sudoers23:40
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sixwheeledbeast1well it's better than sudser...23:42
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DocScrutinizer51please forget about that!23:42
kerioplease forget about rootsh as well!23:43
drathirkerio: thanks a lot openssh looks like little better idea... no offence bef0rd ofc...23:43
DocScrutinizer51about both manual adding of files to sudoers and particularly sudser which needs to get killed with fire23:43
kerioyou're *supposed* to add stuff to /etc/sudoers.d/ and then call update-sudoers23:44
kerioany changes to /etc/sudoers will be reset on the first call to update-sudoers23:44
DocScrutinizer51no, you're not23:44
DocScrutinizer51unless you're  developer or admin23:44
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DocScrutinizer51drathir is neither23:44
drathirDocScrutinizer51: in previous i have too root access...23:45
DocScrutinizer51and he's dealimg with a device with broken screen23:45
keriodrathir: i think he means "admin" in a more general sense23:45
drathirneed chroot to archlinux arm installation at sd too...23:45
kerioas in "some dude who knows how to unix"23:46
DocScrutinizer51drathir: opessh gives you root access23:46
drathirDocScrutinizer51: yes ofc i using openssh...23:47
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