IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2014-01-27

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MaxdamantusYou won't be able to network /dev/camera.02:33
MaxdamantusYou'd need something that knows how to use /dev/camera on the phone, and something on the other side that knows how to talk to that.02:34
MaxdamantusLinux doesn't work like Plan 9 :(02:34
MaxdamantusSilly memory-changing ioctls and stuff.02:34
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DocScrutinizer05aaah yes02:44
DocScrutinizer05so it's gstreamer then02:44
DocScrutinizer05or writing to a "streamable" file on Neo900, and make that file a pipe if you want02:46
DocScrutinizer05s/file/file format/02:46
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: or writing to a "streamable" file format on Neo900, and make that file a pipe if you want02:46
MaxdamantusSomeone needs to write a Plan 9/Inferno mobile OS.02:47
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if the default mp4 format can get "streamed", i.e. playback start before end of file written and file closed02:47
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MaxdamantusI saw a project that got some basic stuff done for it in Inferno.02:48
Maxdamantusso they had files you used to make calls and send/recieve SMSes, on some Android phone.02:48
DocScrutinizer05inferno sounds concerningly similar to fiasco ;-P02:48
Maxdamantusand a simple UI for them.02:48
MaxdamantusFiasco the thing I've noticed mentioned a few times in trying to figure out Maemo?02:49
DocScrutinizer05seems those devels really like that stuff they do, eh? ;-P02:49
DocScrutinizer05the firmware images are caled "fiasco image202:49
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: the firmware images are caled "fiasco image"02:49
MaxdamantusRight, that's where I saw it.02:49
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Maxdamantusso .. what does "fiasco image" mean?02:50
DocScrutinizer05I guess they had an idea of tongue in cheek naming it like "flask" and same time "desaster"02:50
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Maxdamantuswell, what does the "fiasco" bit refer to?02:51
Maxdamantuswhy would it not be suitable to call it a "maemo image" or something?02:51
DocScrutinizer05don't ask me02:51
DocScrutinizer05ask Nokia ;-)02:51
MaxdamantusWiki mentions there's an L4 microkernel family called "Fiasco" .. probably unrelated.02:52
DocScrutinizer05Openmoko called their uBoot moko-dirty, Nokia called theirs NOLO which is about the same in Finnish language I heard02:52
DocScrutinizer05moko is something in your nose, in Spanish - that for sure been not intended though02:53
MaxdamantusMm .. apparently "nolo" is awkward/embarrassed.02:53
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* Maxdamantus ymmärrän vähän suomea.02:54
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders hwy he can't help giggling each time he's seeing such words with lots of ää and ou02:55
wndclose enough02:55
DocScrutinizer05works each time :-D02:55
* Maxdamantus wonders if he spelt that right.02:56
MaxdamantusFunny word.02:56
wndagain, close enough :-)02:56
wndNobody would give me a decent answer when I asked why the image bundle was called "fiasco". I think they didn't know as all they said was "well, at this point it /is/ a disaster, right".02:59
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MaxdamantusHmm .. maybe I'll see if I can port those guys' Inferno/Android project to N900 and make a better shell for it.03:01
Maxdamantussome time.03:01
wndthinking about bygone times, it's a shame I didn't make a backup copy for n810's fte tool03:05
wndfield test (environment?), a simple tool to monitor power usage of certain components such as gps and display, dump lots of status data etc.03:09
DocScrutinizer05yeah, cool stuff. We could use such thing03:10
DocScrutinizer05for now best we got is03:10
DocScrutinizer05and ~zztop03:10
infobotit has been said that bq27k-detail is
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wndtalking of which, doesn't the n900 cssu(-thumb)'s power menu widget use bq27k?03:11
infobothmm... zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop -
DocScrutinizer05power menu widget?03:12
wndpower menu power widget03:12
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wndif you don't know what I'm talking it's probably because I don't know what I'm talking about03:13
DocScrutinizer05well, some system status area applets use the bq27200.ko kernel driver resp the sysnodes it provides. Alas this breaks bme03:13
DocScrutinizer05Pali's bme-replacement uses bq27200 too, but it's no problem since it's integrated with bme replacement obviously03:14
wndI haven't really been an active user of n900 from hacker's point of view... I used to use advanced power foo, which annoyingly made the power widget in power menu clickable and I decided to get rid of it, even if the stock widget wouldn't show charge percentage.03:15
DocScrutinizer05other battery applets may use sysnodes of direct I2C interface to bq27200 hardware, just like bq27k-detail203:15
wndSome time after that I switch to CSSU-thumb, and not too long ago the power widget changed. Now I'm not completely sure which one I have. ;-)03:15
DocScrutinizer05sorry, can't help ;-)03:16
wndMy original point was that the widget I now have, reports completely bogus "full charge" level. Right now it says the battery is at 1015 mAh, and full charge is at 167 mAh.03:16
DocScrutinizer05lol, blame pali03:17
wndobviously it doesn't bother me /that/ much, because it's been like this for maybe a month and I still haven't even looked into it03:17
DocScrutinizer05when you start to bother, you might want to calibrate your bq27200 chip03:17
wndI suppose. the last time I did that was two years ago.03:18
DocScrutinizer05there's a convenient script for that on my server03:18
DocScrutinizer05nect to bq27k-detail203:18
DocScrutinizer05ok, no soooo next:
wndI think it used to take me roughly 80 minutes to drain the battery03:19
DocScrutinizer05the script does that overnight while you're sleeping03:19
DocScrutinizer05particularly when you switch the screen backlight to "always on"03:20
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wndumm, do I want to run the script when I rely on n900 to wake me up?03:21
DocScrutinizer05hmm, not really03:21
DocScrutinizer05rather wait til next saturday ;-)03:21
wndI mean, when I was doing this manually I had maybe five seconds to connect the charger once power chip was done03:21
DocScrutinizer05though the script *should* restart charger and not even reboot the device03:21
wndthat's what the script looked like, but based on my previous experience...03:22
wndwell, I can wait03:22
wndthanks for the script03:22
DocScrutinizer05sure, when you cut through battery in 80min, your headroom after calibration is pretty short03:22
DocScrutinizer05with the script you can go for a better and saner maybe 5h to discharge03:23
wndsounds good03:23
DocScrutinizer05this should extend the time from calib to shutdown to several minutes03:24
wndI must admit that draining the battery that quickly left kind of wrong03:24
wndfelt, even03:24
DocScrutinizer05and calibration isn't really accurate either03:25
DocScrutinizer05battery capacity depends on load03:25
wndat least I left the keyboard slider open to help dissipate the heat03:25
DocScrutinizer05high load reduces effective capacity03:25
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wndmaybe I'll give the script a go at work03:26
DocScrutinizer05like, on double power consumption your battery doesn't last 1/2 but maybe only 0.4 times as long03:26
wndbut before that I'll have to catch some sleep. need to be at work in ~six hours.03:26
DocScrutinizer05n8, sleep well03:26
DocScrutinizer05any feedback re script welcome03:27
wndoh, right, "fastcharger" here refers to high-amp wall charger?03:27
wndmine says 1.2 amps03:28
DocScrutinizer05just nake sure to cd to the dir where lives before you start the calib cript - it uses relative pathnames to bq27200.sh03:29
wndI think I'll manage with bourne shell scripts :-)03:30
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wndin fact, I'm slighly surprised to see no bashisms in there03:31
wndlots of unnecessary semicolons, though03:31
wndanyway, thanks :-)03:32
DocScrutinizer05I love ; ;-)03:33
DocScrutinizer05actually they are remants from me testing that as a oneliner in N900 xterm03:33
DocScrutinizer05when it worked I added a echo ' to left side and a '> to right03:34
DocScrutinizer05and then inserted a bit of formatting but obviously didn't remove the surplus ;03:35
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DocScrutinizer05actually I should beautify that script a bit, eventually03:39
DocScrutinizer05and printing a message about screen going dark and how to switch it on again, just before screen blanks, is a bit ... :o)03:39
DocScrutinizer05well, i wrote it for kerio03:41
DocScrutinizer05just to demonstarte I know better way to calibrate bq27k chip than estel's method03:41
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MaxdamantusDISPLAY=:2; (for ((x = 0; x < 500; x++)); do (urxvt +rv -bg "#$(for ((x = 0; x < 3; x++)); do echo -n $((echo 'obase = 16'; echo $((RANDOM % 256))) | bc | sed 's/^.$/0&/'); done)" &); done)03:53
MaxdamantusThis is fun.03:53
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r00t|homeMaxdamantus: fuck you04:03
Tekk_if that does what I think it does..04:05
Maxdamantus:2 is meant to be a display running Hildon.04:05
r00t|homeremove the & and replace that with -e sleep .504:05
r00t|homeit's a forkbomb otherwise04:06
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Tekk_r00t|home: nah, pretty good idea of what goes on. Fork bomb-ish that keeps spawning urxvt with a random bg color riht?04:06
r00t|homewell, it doesn't grow exponentially, but opening 500 terminal emulators isn't a nice idea really04:06
MaxdamantusWell, it's not a replicating forkbomb.04:06
Tekk_yeah, that's why I said -ish, since it does end04:06
Tekk_that's still a pain to close out though :P04:06
Maxdamantuskillall urxvt04:07
Maxdamantusassuming you don't have any others running.04:07
r00t|homerxvt is my main terminal...04:07
r00t|homei did pkill -f \\+rv   tho'04:07
* Maxdamantus runs everything in tmux, so can just restart the terminal emulator and reattach.04:07
r00t|home(from ssh)04:07
Tekk_r00t|home: you have some serious security issues if you're just running shell code that people paste in irc :P04:08
r00t|homei' tired :P04:08
r00t|homei did look over it, and i saw that it doesn't loop infinitely... but i missed the & at the end because you hid it next to the )04:09
infobotr00t|home meant: i did look over it, and i saw that it doesn't loop infinitely... but i missed the & at the end because he hid it next to the )04:09
r00t|homeand i didn't expect people to post forkbombs on #maemo really... especially dedicated maemo forkbombs...04:10
r00t|homexterm -fg black -bg \#$(printf %x%x%x $((RANDOM%0xff)) $((RANDOM%0xff)) $((RANDOM%0xff)))04:14
r00t|homeprintf is a shell builtin, unlike bc, and loop unrolled... and why open FIVEHUNDRED of them???04:15
Maxdamantusbut that can give you colours like #aaaa04:16
Maxdamantuscan alternatively write it again more efficiently with bc/sed.04:16
r00t|homewhat would be better would be automatically picking a matching high-contrast foreground color04:17
Maxdamantusmeh, cbf04:17
r00t|homealso, for such stuff, i usually run Xnest :1 -noreset ... while sleep .1 ;do DISPLAY=:1 xsetroot -solid $(printf \#%02x%02x%02x\\n $((RANDOM%0xff)) $((RANDOM%0xff)) $((RANDOM%0xff))); done04:22
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Maxdamantusfor ((z = 0; z < 10; z++)); do echo 'obase = 16'; for ((x = y = 0; x < 3; x++)); do y=$((y*256 + RANDOM%256)); done; echo $y; done | bc | sed 's/^.$/0&/; s/^..$/0&/;04:25
Maxdamantuss/^...$/0&/; s/^....$/0&/; s/^.....$/0&/;' | while read w; do (xterm -fg black -bg "#$w" &); done04:25
Maxdamantusmeh, got cut off.04:25
Maxdamantusone bc process, one sed process, no inbuilt printf.04:25
Maxdamantuscut in half*04:26
r00t|homestill silly to use bc and sed when printf will do04:26
r00t|homestill don't get why you'd open so many04:27
MaxdamantusI imagine some people might be inclined to claim that spawning hundreds of terminals with random background colours is already silly.04:27
MaxdamantusJust to see how much laggier Hildon was with that many windows.04:28
r00t|homethe effect might look good... maybe more so if you add a little lsd04:28
Maxdamantusbut it's just running on a computer, not an N900.04:28
r00t|homewell, i guess launching 500 terminal emulators will lag pretty much any system, if opened in a loop like that04:28
Tekk_I should try it on my desktop, that'll be a fun test04:29
MaxdamantusHm. Didn't lag my system.04:29
Tekk_8 core 4 ghz, 16 gigs ram :P04:29
r00t|homeTekk_: and no mozilla products running, eh? :P04:29
Maxdamantus4 core 3.6 GHz, 32 gigs ram04:29
Tekk_r00t|home: not unless I need to04:29
r00t|home<-- 2-core 4gig ram04:29
r00t|home<-- goes sit in a corner and cry04:29
Tekk_r00t|home: my laptop is 2 core and 2 gig04:30
Maxdamantusmy Mozilla-based browser is currently using 8.7% of RAM with 179 tabs.04:30
r00t|homemine too... well, one of mine04:30
Tekk_I just happened to upgrade my desktop this winter :)04:30
MaxdamantusYeah, two weeks ago I was using a 4-core with 3 GiB of RAM.04:30
MaxdamantusI had another 1 GiB stick, but the slot on the motherboard is broken.04:31
r00t|homeram's so cheap nowadays...04:31
MaxdamantusI know.04:31
r00t|homemaybe i should upgrade sometime04:31
MaxdamantusThat's why I bought 32 GiB of it.04:31
r00t|homebut what for... just so mozilla can eat all the ram...04:31
Maxdamantusmore RAM seems more important to me than a faster X04:31
Maxdamantusa faster X just means some things get done slightly quicker04:32
Maxdamantusmore RAM means more things can be potentially done (without taking excessive amounts of time)04:32
r00t|homeyou mean X window system or X as in random system component?04:32
MaxdamantusX as in a random system component04:32
r00t|homeactually the last system i bought was an atom with 4gig ram04:33
r00t|homegreat system for most general purposes04:34
MaxdamantusI saw a nice second-hand motherboard the other day that I could use with my previous computer.04:36
Maxdamantuswonder if I should buy it.04:36
MaxdamantusMight replace my current Pentium 3 router.04:36
r00t|homemy router is a 586...04:36
r00t|home(other advantage of that intel board is, it runs off a single DC power source, notebook supply instead of bulky atx supply)04:38
MaxdamantusHmm .. though I was planning on doing something with the parallel port at some point.04:38
Maxdamantusnone of my other computers have parallel ports/headers04:39
r00t|homewaht? and even if so, there a re pcie parallel port cards04:39
Maxdamantusseeing if I can use the analogue sticks on this PS2 controller.04:39
Maxdamantuswhen it's plugged into a PSX→USB adapter, the analogue just turns off straight away.04:40
Maxdamantusand the controller doesn't work at all in an actual PS2.04:41
Maxdamantusmaybe I'll just buy a PS3 controller (don't intend on getting a PS3)04:41
r00t|homeso just to try it the parport joypad driver04:41
r00t|home*with the04:42
MaxdamantusI'd like to play Ape Escape again (probably in a PSX emulator)04:42
MaxdamantusThere's another utility as well, that works in userspace.04:42
Maxdamantusand can also communicate with PSX cards04:43
r00t|homethe usual way to go nowadays is microcontrollers with usb hookup... granted, more complex than just wiring to a parport04:44
MaxdamantusIndeed :\04:45
Maxdamantusthough motherboards still do have serial headers .. not sure why you can't theoretically use UART.04:46
MaxdamantusThe Linux IR thing works over UART.04:46
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r00t|homebut serial interfaces are easier to replace with usb, not timing critical, unlike the partport abuse04:47
Maxdamantus(that sends signals at something like 44 kHz)04:47
Maxdamantus(using the DTR pin)04:47
Tekk_ape escape was psx?04:49
Tekk_I always thought it was dc04:49
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MaxdamantusI think they might've released something for that.04:50
Maxdamantusbut the first game (which I have the disc for somewhere) was PS1.04:50
* Maxdamantus has only played the first one.04:51
MaxdamantusHm. Maybe they didn't make one for DC.04:51
r00t|homeshould port all that parport using stuff to something like
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MaxdamantusDo/cat people run new kernels on the N900?05:01
infobotMaxdamantus meant: Do/can people run new kernels on the N900?05:01
FIQthere has been experimentation with it05:02
FIQbut not in any stable form atm05:02
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Maxdamantusoh, that wouldn't do anything.05:09
Tekk_try it now though :P05:09
infobotMaxdamantus meant: oh, that wouldn't do anything&&05:09
Maxdamantusso it doesn't actually use any regex.05:10
FIQno it doesn't05:13
FIQs/no it doesn't/see\?/05:13
infobotFIQ meant: see\?05:13
DocScrutinizer05you all have serious problems with chanops when you post forkbombs and similar stuff in IRC05:16
DocScrutinizer05so, according to eternal laws...05:17
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*** Maxdamantus was kicked by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!)05:17
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MaxdamantusSorry .. but in my defence .. I wouldn't consider that a forkbomb.05:18
Maxdamantusjust as compiling a kernel is not invoking a forkbomb.05:18
FIQdid I miss something?05:18
FIQif this is the case, sorry05:18
Tekk_Maxdamantus: the weirdest thing about that is that maemo uses display 2, really05:19
Tekk_was it some arbitrary choice or are 0 and 1 taken for something?05:19
Tekk_(obviously backdoor sessions to allow european spy agencies to spy)05:19
Maxdamantusthe maemo in scratchbox seems to use display :2.05:19
DocScrutinizer05yeah, or #rm -rf root is not a fork. Rule: do not paste stuff that could do harm to any other user that c6P it to their terminal. Particularly not when you sugest they should do that05:19
FIQnvm, read scrollback now05:22
DocScrutinizer05I consider that a minor case, thus I wasn't kick-happy05:23
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* FIQ copy/paste Doc's script05:23
Tekk_oh DocScrutinizer05, are there any plans as far as an fm transmitter in the neo900?05:24
DocScrutinizer05that script isn't supposed to do "harm"05:24
FIQ(ok not really)05:24
Tekk_my transmitter just died a week or two ago05:24
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: sure05:24
DocScrutinizer05seems the TiWi5 has FMTX, though not officially supported by the manufacturer05:25
DocScrutinizer05we'll check if it works nevertheless, so we don't need another FMTX solution05:25
DocScrutinizer05((display=:2)) might relate to shaking hands video, or pin/lockcode dialog which is started before hildon05:34
DocScrutinizer05or even that silly progress jumping-dots05:34
MaxdamantusSo Hildon doesn't usually run on :2 on the N900 itself?05:35
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# echo $DISPLAY05:36
DocScrutinizer05err, ok, you're talking about console number05:36
Maxdamantusit's just Xorg/X11.05:37
Maxdamantusmaemo-scratchbox tries to connect to :2 by default.05:37
DocScrutinizer05well, prolly since :0 is already used by the host05:38
Maxdamantusbut :1 isn't.05:38
MaxdamantusIt's something someone set.05:38
DocScrutinizer05when you run scratchbox in a dedicated session, then probably :1 is also occupied05:38
Maxdamantusit doesn't check what displays are running, and you're meant to run the display yourself.05:38
DocScrutinizer05I dunno05:39
MaxdamantusI mounted my /tmp/.X11-unix into the scratchbox chroot after logging into it.05:40
DocScrutinizer05I'm not going to install that mess a 3rd time on my PC. Will use VM instead05:41
DocScrutinizer05my current PC is beefy enough for VM05:42
Maxdamantusit shouldn't really be any more messy using a chroot.05:42
Maxdamantus(for the entire debian system)05:42
DocScrutinizer05no debian system here05:42
Maxdamantusyou can install debootstrap on a bunch of distributions (not limited to Debian)05:42
Maxdamantusthen just run something like: debootstrap <repo> <directory>05:43
kwtmIs there a way to disable a certain notification signal such as "SMS has arrived"? I don't want to make the volume zero, or to make a very brief sound file; I want there to be no sound file at all.05:43
Maxdamantusand then you can `chroot <directory> /bin/bash` and do whatever.05:43
DocScrutinizer05meh, starting a VM is so much simpler05:43
DocScrutinizer05and not cluttering my mounts05:43
kwtmI have gotten dbus-scripts to espeak the name of the sender of an SMS that I got, but the notification sound interrupts the espeak sound and it gets cut off.05:43
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: sleep 5 ?05:44
Maxdamantusfor a VM you need to install it onto a (probably virtual) disk, configure it to boot, connect to the network, etc05:44
DocScrutinizer05nah, I simply start the SDK-VM05:45
Maxdamantuseh, I guess you could do that.05:45
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: I guess sleep 5 would do, although it's not a very elegant solution. Oh, well, I guess it will have to do.05:45
DocScrutinizer05either that or you silence the notification sound05:46
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: That's what I'm asking: can I get rid of it?  If I just set the notification sound to 0, it still cuts off the espeak sound.05:46
DocScrutinizer05replace soundfile with a 0-byte file05:47
DocScrutinizer05or /dev/null ;-P05:47
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Hmm... a non-existent sound file or an invalid sound file ... I wonder whether that would work?05:47
kwtmRemind me also to check why mplayer can play sounds even when the profile is set to silent ... I guess somehow it bypasses the usual control.05:48
Maxdamantusthey should both just be invalid sound files.05:48
DocScrutinizer05but a 0-file is better05:48
Maxdamantus/dev/null is essentially a 0-byte file.05:48
DocScrutinizer05(though you prolly can't get /dev/null for soundfile)05:49
Maxdamantusthough if you look closely, it's also a character device.05:49
kwtmDrat, gotta go. Will be back later -- please continue to discuss aloud for my benefit. :)  Especially the Neo900 ... I need plans for after both my N900's fail.05:49
* DocScrutinizer05 is afk too05:50
kwtmOk, you mean like touch /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/nothingness.mp3  or something05:50
* Maxdamantus doesn't have an N900 yet, so doesn't have much to contribute.05:50
DocScrutinizer05touch == >05:50
kwtmok.  Off to dinner.05:50
DocScrutinizer05at least for the basic parameter-less `touch` a simple `>` does it05:51
DocScrutinizer05as long as you don't want to touch an existing file05:52
DocScrutinizer05if you want to, you'd better off with >>05:52
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DocScrutinizer05touch == >>05:53
Maxdamantuscat = <05:53
Maxdamantusin some contexts05:53
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* Maxdamantus wonders why it doesn't work in all.05:54
DocScrutinizer05because it's meant for stdin05:54
Maxdamantus< doesn't do anything with stdin05:54
MaxdamantusI mean at the beginning of a command, like you used >05:55
Maxdamantusecho $(<foo)05:55
Maxdamantusecho $(cat foo)05:55
DocScrutinizer05echo *05:57
Maxdamantusecho doesn't read the file contents of files.05:58
DocScrutinizer05a plain * is quite "interesting"05:58
MaxdamantusScare quotes mandatory.05:59
* Maxdamantus wonders if any bash contributers understand bash.05:59
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AggeseDocScrutinizer have you seen this one ?12:38
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DocScrutinizer05yes. thanks12:44
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wndJapod 1350 mAh replacement battery for N900, measured as ~1330 mAh when unused, now after two years and ~260 cycles, 1153 mAh. I'm not complaining much.16:31
wndpower menu power widget still reports 62/167 mAh, though :-)16:32
wndrestarting hildon-home would have probably done the same thing, but after reboot it now reports max 1247 mAh. I wonder where from it's getting this.16:35
wndstatus-area-applet-battery (1.0-8) comes from pali /, and it shows data very similar to power menu widget. Power menu widget says 59 % (747 mAh / 1247 mAh), while bq says [CR]SOC 21 %, NAC/CACD/CACT 247 mAh, max 1153 mAh.16:44
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jaskai wonder what my mugen is at in reality now.. hmm.16:49
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zGrrmoin :)17:05
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