IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-12-03

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DocScrutinizer05[2013-12-03 01:05:21] <dos1> we've just got slashdoted02:22
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M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: well, again :)02:28
M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: Neo900 was already on Slashdot once some time during the initial crowdfunding02:28
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WebTesterit works.05:08
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solo50i installed cssu on my n900then when i try installing my yappari it says conflick application package i need ur help05:30
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freemangordonhow cute:
freemangordonhonestly, why "we" still try to reach jolla is beyond me09:53
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freemangordonthis is a corporation. period.09:53
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thedead1440_I don't see how doc's post was an affront when it was simply stating past experiences.10:04
FIQso apparently HAM thinks it's a Good Idea(TM) to reload all repositories after each package upgrade at the update dialog10:06
* FIQ begs to differ10:06
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I think it's the building of the dependencies-datastructure  that takes forever11:11
DocScrutinizer05and it makes some sense to rebuild that data after a package got installed11:11
DocScrutinizer05well, maybe11:11
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FIQDocScrutinizer05: it does? even taking the fact into account that it did *just that* right before you actually performed the update12:23
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DocScrutinizer05by installing or deinstalling some package you change the dependencies on your machine12:24
DocScrutinizer05of course apt could just update the existing dependency-tree and then tell HAM which packages to add or to remove from the list of available/installable/deinstallable packages, but I guess that's not how the API between apt-worker and HAM is designed12:28
DocScrutinizer05NB I never really looked into all this - so I might be wrong12:28
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vi__You do not realise how incredible the accounts integration is on fremantle till you have used android.15:37
vi__Get this...15:37
vi__To use skype or some such shit you actually have to open their crumby client and use an alternative dialler.15:38
vi__There is zero integration.15:39
vi__And spam coming at you from every angle.15:39
vi__To top it off you have no idea what is running, how or indeed what resources it is using.15:40
vi__I digress.15:41
vi__Fremantle on better hardware.15:41
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grrmoin ;)16:09
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FIQskype is basically as well integrated into the OS as just plain calling16:19
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vi__on maemo it is.16:29
vi__on android, not so much.16:29
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qwerty123Hi. How to increase /tmp in easy debian? Its 6 mb.18:46
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: I don't give a flying F* about any blue/orange theming in default skin of tmo (I'm using  "-- Classic Light --" anyway ;-D), but please tell my I got that wrong that you seem to suggest to change URL of tmo and honestly think this could pan out if only somebody edits wiki with a sed command18:50
chem|sthehe nope18:51
chem|stI was just about telling concerns and that we need someone to clean18:52
FIQchange URL of tmo18:52
FIQis there a good reason for it?18:52
DocScrutinizer05we cleaned out Nokia, a few months ago. On their special request18:53
chem|ststop please!18:53
chem|stFIQ: we are not changing anything for now18:53
FIQoh ok18:53
DocScrutinizer05prolly caffeine deficit18:53
FIQIMO changing urls would be a lot of effort for... nothing? I dunno, but it would be a lot of effort anyway18:53
FIQUnless you at least allow redirection from the old URL18:54
FIQthen it would work I guess18:54
DocScrutinizer05YES FIQ! we all thnk the same18:54
DocScrutinizer05I've been most radical in suggesting a CNAME from to
DocScrutinizer05and vBul could prolly even automatically switch skin on the vHost18:56
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marmistrzfreemangordon: ping18:56
DocScrutinizer05where skin even could imply "hide all other subforums"18:56
FIQDocScrutinizer05: CNAME to a directory? wat18:56
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FIQCNAME only allows domain aliases to other domains, not domains+directories... unless we mean 2 different things18:57
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: for you I can write it RFC style ;-)18:57
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I used 2021 syntax, not yet published and commonly known18:58
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FIQDocScrutinizer05: :P18:59
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: you know, starting 2015 they plan to get a worldwide out-of-band sidechannel to go along the side of "normal" internet18:59
FIQof course19:00
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SAiFI think I fried my IR19:00
DocScrutinizer05iseful for ICMP too19:00
DocScrutinizer05useful even19:00
SAiFis there a way to test?19:00
DocScrutinizer05get two mirrors or a second videocamera19:01
DocScrutinizer05operate IR LED and watch it by a camera19:01
SAiFhow to operate IR LED?19:01
DocScrutinizer05doing this with N900 camera is proven to work but tricky without a second N900, thus the mirrors19:02
freemangordonSAiF: install pierogi or irreco19:02
DocScrutinizer05well, I used irreco for that, but I'm absolutely sure there are other apps and also some sysnode19:02
marmistrzfreemangordon: I have a question about the autobuilder19:03
SAiFI was using pierogi, first of all I was getting outputs while scanning. for remote.19:03
DocScrutinizer05tv-b-gone comes to mind19:03
SAiFbut now pierogi is showing some, error,19:03
SAiFI doubt, i fried the IR19:03
DocScrutinizer05pierogi is pretty screwed by design19:03
SAiF^hi freemangordon.19:04
marmistrzfreemangordon: Are all length pubkeys supported? After losing my previous key, I decided to copy my desktop pubkey19:04
freemangordonSAiF: hi!19:04
FIQSAiF: if an application shows an error, my usual first thought is not "ok, hardware error"19:04
DocScrutinizer05hard to believe you could fry the LED, it's driven at feeble level19:04
FIQbut rather my last, after debugging it a bit :D19:04
marmistrzfreemangordon: IIRC, it was longer than the previous one (which was working)19:05
freemangordonmarmistrz: hmm? care to elaborate a bit? what keys, where?19:05
marmistrzI'm uploading right now the pubkey19:05
freemangordonaah, ok19:05
SAiFthats good to hear..  I dont care if it works or not19:05
marmistrzat the autobuilder19:05
FIQDocScrutinizer05: speaking of which, I suspect that my N900 has a broken BT as it refuses to find any devices at all (and there has been several reflashes between the issue, and it hasn't ever disappeared so I strongly doubt it's firmware error)19:06
DocScrutinizer05ooh, that's sysop domain19:06
marmistrzI uploaded it yesterday (~24 hrs ago)19:06
freemangordonmarmistrz: no idea, but I guess you should follow the instructions on garage19:06
FIQany idea how to verify it?19:06
DocScrutinizer05not exactly, but almost19:06
SAiFoops sorry seems like you are in the middle of a serious discussion19:06
FIQthere isn't really any errors19:06
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon has no permissions  to mess with user accounts19:06
FIQbut it always says that there's no devices nearby19:06
SAiFbye freemangordon, FIQ19:06
FIQregardless of whether or not that'st rue19:06
FIQ*that's true19:06
marmistrzfreemangordon: the keys generated in the scratchbox are shorter than the ones generated by raring. My concern is: are the longer keys unsupported?19:07
FIQand (before I ever did a reflash when the error appeared the first time) the existing paired things didn't work either19:07
DocScrutinizer05marmistrz: sync from garage to builder might take 24 or even 48h19:07
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marmistrzDocScrutinizer05: thx19:08
marmistrzI'll wait patiently :)19:08
DocScrutinizer05I think the cronjob runs only once a day, and it's not unheard that it fails halfway thru19:09
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DocScrutinizer05if you're in a hurry, ask fremangordon to copy the key manually19:10
DocScrutinizer05or xes or warfare19:10
marmistrzNo hurry ;) If I was in a hurry, I'd have used the web interface :) but thanks19:10
DocScrutinizer05the usersync cronjob deploys the user credentials from garage to all the other VM19:11
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DocScrutinizer05at least it's supposed to do19:11
DocScrutinizer05we already know it fails for deleting users, as well as for certain config changes19:11
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DocScrutinizer05I suggested to chage that crap to event-triggered on garage, maybe 6 months ago19:12
DocScrutinizer05but we have too little manpower to sanitize that stuff19:13
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marmistrzDocScrutinizer05: did you notice the gconf-cleaner package polling the extras-cauldron-list? Maybe it'd be good to remove it's (as it's broken)19:48
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DocScrutinizer05gconf-cleaner package polling the extras-cauldron-list ??? o.O19:50
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venemo_ffhow's the neo900 going?20:17
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grrsuddenly it become very popular.20:19
grrall major portals are writing about it.20:19
ecc3gi do wonder about its software compatibility with existing software, that has to be the hardest thing with closed source all around...20:22
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anYcnot if as much as possible stays the same20:23
anYcand that's the major design goal20:24
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ecc3geh... everything changed, new SOC, new modem, etc.,etc.20:24
anYcalthough people work on replacing the closed parts20:24
ecc3gwill the camera the same even?20:24
venemo_ffI'm surprised by its popularity20:24
anYcyeah, with compatible parts or parts that have oss drivers20:24
anYctake a look into the FAQ20:25
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anYcif I remember correctly, only 3d (that's not required for the UI) is closed20:26
lufuThere is also #neo900 btw.20:28
grrNeo900 project became popular with actual release of Jolla. What a coincidence...20:28
DocScrutinizer05anYc: that's about kernel20:28
DocScrutinizer05for maemo5  the picture looks different: we have a number of middleware and app-level blobs we need to patch or replace20:29
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anYcah ok, so they depend on specific HW features?20:31
anYcthought they're only required to make SW fully OSS20:32
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grrI saw recently brand new (with the QR sticker on LCD) costs in Poland for 1250PLN. New N9 was much cheaper.20:39
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sequantzI bought my N9 for 900PLN in May 201220:40
sequantzbrand new20:40
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grrI asked the shopkeeper why the N9 is cheaper. He said, you know, it's just NOT the same. :)20:46
anYcpoland doesn't use euros? didn't know that20:46
grrnope, it does not.20:46
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anYcimho, that's one of the few nice things for people about europe :)20:47
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anYcno checks and money one has to exchange20:48
sequantzeuros in Poland? not yet :D20:49
sequantzyou can buy new n9 for 750 PLN, but those n9 are imported from China/Hong Kong/Singapore20:50
grrthe concept was good, but they screwed it up a bit. or two bit. and no parity check. :)20:50
grri don't like N9. I was disapointing smartphone.20:51
grrI still use n900. can't replace it with anything else.20:53
sequantzi'm looking for n900 now20:55
sequantzbut many of them are in horrible condition ;)20:55
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grrYou can still find a brand new sometimes.20:57
sequantzyeah, but they are too expensive ;)20:58
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grrThey are.20:59
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Venemoso, I'm quite surprised by how many people actually funded the Neo90021:30
Venemoit reminded me to the good old times21:30
VenemoI kind of still miss the hardware keyboard21:31
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DocScrutinizer05then go ahead do your donation ;-)21:49
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x0rnhey guys. can anyone help me in understanding of how to calculate current price for one Neo900 device? i read FAQ, but im not sure that i got all the rules clearly. so, what donation should i do to get complete device for sure?22:00
Defiantafaik currently you can just donate >100euro right now and pay the rest later22:01
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sequantzso, how "big" is the rest? :D22:03
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x0rnk, and when i am to pay the rest? and how to calculate the rest? (=22:04
x0rnsequantz: hehe.. yes %)22:04
Defiantx0rn: have you seen the forum thread?22:04
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x0rnDefiant: yes, but it has more than 100 pages. i read about microphone, audio codecs, etc. but havent found donations.22:06
x0rnDefiant: if to consider my eng knowledge -- i totally stuck in understanding of donation system ='(22:07
Defiantx0rn: I know, I have followed it over time, but in my Opinion only the first post is the one you really need.22:07
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x0rnjake42: i saw, 500-700 EUR for motherboard and +150 to complete device, but "Those prices are just early estimations, are subject to change and depend heavily on number of orders."22:11
x0rnjake42: i just trying to understand how that estimations changed after completion of Phase 4 (200 devices) and how to calculate real price atm22:11
jake42x0rn: yes, as they haven't sourced all the parts yet, no one can say for sure how much22:12
Defiantright now they can estimate the price only based on prior experience..22:12
jake42which is somewhere between 500 and 700 :P22:13
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jake42it nothing like going to the mall :)22:13
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infobotjake42 meant: it's nothing like going to the mall :)22:14
x0rnthx, i understand now. and one more question -- "when?". for example -- i donated 100+ EUR and now im able to buy device, after i paid the rest. how can i get know that they are shipping current devices, so i can pay the rest right now and get one?22:15
grrthere are not any interesting gadgets in the mall.22:15
jake42x0rn: be sure that you will be informed when shipping starts22:16
jake42but that will take another few months22:16
jake42I *heard* something like second or third quarter22:16
grrporting freemantle seems to be a major issue. unless the new soc is downward compatible.22:17
x0rnbtw, first 200 devices is already sold?22:17
jake42grr: new soc is pretty similar22:17
DefiantThere is no single neo900 sold yet.22:18
grrthat's great.22:18
jake42x0rn: 200 preordered = 200 donations over 100€22:18
jake42grr: just a little faster22:18
grrdid any of you guys ordered the jolla thingy?22:18
x0rnjake42: Defiant: thanks for help!22:19
jake42x0rn: yw :)22:19
Defiantjolla is missing a keyboard..22:20
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grryes. i wonder why. lot of people were requesting a keyboard.22:20
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jake42I would guess designing a keyboard isn't the easiest part22:23
jake42so they would just drop it22:23
grrI thought there are still some hansets with HW keyboard built in.22:25
mashinaall shit22:25
grrN900 has suprisingly good keyboard for it's size. Much better than n810 had.22:25
mashinai don't mind the 3row kb really22:26
jake42grr: I think n810 kb is better than n900 :)22:26
mashinaespecially because the screen doesn't so out so much that it creates wear/flimsiness22:26
grrNot for me. I was slightly bigger so it is suppose to be better, but i am making more typing mistakes on n810 and almost none on n900. Could be quality of the switches, I don't know.22:28
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jake42grr: not typing toi much anymore on my n810, though22:29
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grrI sometimes use it as external bluetooth keyboard/mouse for the media centre and sometimes as an IP radio.22:31
grrIt would be cool to built N810 into the vintage 80-ties style boombox for the ip radio and podcasts.22:33
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ShadowJKN810 upper row were a bit too close to screen22:34
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ShadowJKand keys were flatter22:34
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* sixwheeledbeast wonders how easy it would be to shoehorn inductive charging circuitry into a Neo90022:58
sixwheeledbeastI guess there's not much room in there as it is :(22:59
Defiantsixwheeledbeast: someone did that to the n90022:59
sixwheeledbeastDefiant: yep,
Woody14619Samsung is doing it in the battery pack itself.  Not in phone at all.  Buy a new battery, drop it in, and you can inductive charge, even on a model that didn't support it natively.23:00
sixwheeledbeastmust have a lower capacity battery23:01
Woody14619slightly smaller battery, (coil wraps around the whole cell normally, taking a sliver of room).  But nothing significant.23:01
Woody14619The chip needed to handle it is small enough to fit in the header with the charge protection circuitry there.23:02
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