IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-10-30

*** qwazix_ has quit IRC00:01
*** NIN101 has quit IRC00:05
*** nox- has joined #maemo00:07
*** felipe` has joined #maemo00:09
*** dafox has quit IRC00:13
*** zemmy has quit IRC00:15
*** Pali has quit IRC00:17
*** xes has joined #maemo00:29
*** b1101 has joined #maemo00:36
*** at1as has quit IRC00:36
*** torindel has quit IRC00:36
*** torindel has joined #maemo00:37
*** zap_ has quit IRC00:42
*** Agge has joined #maemo00:43
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo00:47
*** kolp has quit IRC00:48
AggeI have an old N900 that I would like to be able to use again what should I do to get the most use from it? The device is fully funtional just havent been used in years.00:50
sixwheeledbeastAgge: update it and use it00:50
Aggedo nokia still make updates for it?00:51
sixwheeledbeastcommunity updates now.00:51
sixwheeledbeastwhat bersion you have now?00:51
infobotsixwheeledbeast meant: what version you have now?00:51
*** RiD has joined #maemo00:52
Aggeprobibly the last one that nokia pushed00:52
sixwheeledbeastpossibly not00:53
sixwheeledbeastthere have been security fixes in both Nokia and CSSU (community) updates00:53
infobotmethinks getversion is input the following in a terminal "osso-product-info | grep OSSO_VERSION | cut -d "'" -f 2; dpkg-query -W -f='${Version}n' mp-fremantle-community-pr; uname -r"00:54
sixwheeledbeastor Settings > About product00:54
Aggei should have found it and started it before I asked the question :( looks like the bathery is drained so it wont boot right away :(00:54
*** mvp has quit IRC00:55
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!.00:56
Aggehm thanks geting the stedy amber now but it is conected to a computer for power not the original charger00:57
sixwheeledbeastBest to use charge if possible, or it may take a while.00:59
Aggeok. funny that the original charger from the N900 is still my main phone charger :)00:59
*** torindel has quit IRC01:00
infobotcssu is probably
sixwheeledbeastReading while you wait :)01:00
Aggethanks :)01:01
*** torindel has joined #maemo01:01
*** OkropNick has quit IRC01:03
*** xes has quit IRC01:04
Aggeit begun to flash amber as fast as I conected it to the charger :)01:04
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:05
sixwheeledbeastNokia Hands?01:05
Aggebooted now01:06
sixwheeledbeastif you have not used in a while and there is nothing on there you need I would reflash to clean any buggy software etc.01:07
infobothmm... maemo-flashing is
sixwheeledbeastWhen flashed with >PR1.3 you can install community update from ~cssu01:08
*** DrCode has joined #maemo01:09
Aggethat sounds good might be some old sms that I would like to keep is it any good way to do that?01:10
sixwheeledbeastdefault backup applcation can store SMS and contacts to SD01:11
Aggeaha Thanks01:12
Aggeremembered how I did to imput a "|" in the terminal :)01:13
sixwheeledbeastSome widgets can be known to slow down the device. so best to start a fresh and only install what you need after reflash+CSSU.01:15
Aggeyeah last time I tried to use it it was realy slow01:15
sixwheeledbeastThere are multiple reasons for this...01:15
sixwheeledbeastUnconfirmed leaky widgets, crappatches, devices memory bottleneck.01:17
*** Hurrian has quit IRC01:17
sixwheeledbeastOne and two are simple don't install them01:17
*** at1as has joined #maemo01:18
sixwheeledbeastthe latter can be solved by CSSU-Thumb or/and putting swap on uSD.01:18
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC01:19
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:22
*** Hurrian has quit IRC01:22
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:22
*** fk_lx has quit IRC01:24
*** torindel has quit IRC01:26
*** torindel has joined #maemo01:26
Aggethe about product say that the version is 21.2011.38-101:27
*** croppa has joined #maemo01:28
Aggethe command complained about dpkg-query not existing01:28
sixwheeledbeastSo that's the latest Nokia aka PR1.3.101:28
sixwheeledbeastthat's correct, that part of the command is CSSU only01:29
*** Ex-Opesa has joined #maemo01:32
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC01:48
Aggethank sixwheeledbeast now I know whare to start. I will let i charge over night and begin the new install tomorrow :)01:49
*** phlixi_ has joined #maemo01:50
sixwheeledbeastAgge: that is best :) CSSU install will abort if not fully charged. any questions you know where to ask.01:50
*** timeless_ has joined #maemo01:51
*** Gh0sty_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** mashina_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** crope_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** MMN-o_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** mattaust1n has joined #maemo01:53
*** sr71_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** ShadowJK_ has joined #maemo01:53
*** konelix has quit IRC01:55
*** LauRoman has quit IRC01:56
*** totalizator_ has joined #maemo01:57
*** ecc3g has joined #maemo01:57
*** RP_ has quit IRC01:58
*** phlixi has quit IRC01:58
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC01:58
*** ecc2g has quit IRC01:58
*** crope has quit IRC01:58
*** totalizator has quit IRC01:58
*** mattaustin has quit IRC01:58
*** ShadowJK has quit IRC01:58
*** mashina has quit IRC01:58
*** MMN-o has quit IRC01:58
*** tg has quit IRC01:58
*** sr71 has quit IRC01:58
*** timeless has quit IRC01:58
*** Gh0sty_ is now known as Gh0sty01:58
*** xes has joined #maemo01:58
*** RiD has quit IRC01:58
*** timeless_ is now known as timeless01:59
*** tg has joined #maemo02:01
*** xes_ has joined #maemo02:05
*** RP_ has joined #maemo02:07
*** xes has quit IRC02:07
*** basiaf has joined #maemo02:08
*** at1as has quit IRC02:12
*** sq-one has quit IRC02:16
*** mkaindl has joined #maemo02:17
*** till has quit IRC02:20
*** Martix has quit IRC02:20
*** sq-one has joined #maemo02:20
*** Martix has joined #maemo02:23
*** till has joined #maemo02:27
*** xes_ has quit IRC02:27
*** konelix has joined #maemo02:28
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo02:31
*** torindel has quit IRC02:32
*** torindel has joined #maemo02:32
*** Martix has quit IRC02:35
*** N-Mi has quit IRC02:36
*** torindel has quit IRC02:37
*** torindel has joined #maemo02:37
*** mashina_ has quit IRC02:40
*** mashina_ has joined #maemo02:40
*** torindel has quit IRC02:42
*** torindel has joined #maemo02:42
*** dos1 has quit IRC02:43
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo02:43
*** eMHa has quit IRC02:51
*** sq-one has quit IRC02:54
*** konelix has quit IRC02:59
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo03:01
*** torindel has quit IRC03:06
*** torindel has joined #maemo03:07
*** freemangordon has quit IRC03:11
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo03:11
*** qwerty123 has joined #maemo03:23
qwerty123  hey anyone having any issues with facebook??03:24
qwerty123My fbcmd stopped working and so did my qutim !!03:24
infobotGeneric Mapping Tools. URL:  Greenwich Mean Time03:27
infobot2013.10.30  1:27:25 GMT03:27
qwerty123Great!! Nite there fellas!!03:27
qwerty123 and even netsurf is saying - some ssl facebook error or recv error connecion reset by peer!!03:31
*** goldkatze has quit IRC03:36
*** totalizator_ is now known as totalizator03:43
*** basiaf has quit IRC03:45
*** basiaf has joined #maemo03:47
*** FR-PC has quit IRC03:52
*** lexik has joined #maemo03:53
*** robotanarchy has quit IRC03:59
*** robotanarchy has joined #maemo04:04
*** rm_work is now known as rm_work|away04:10
*** Venusaur has quit IRC04:13
*** guampa has quit IRC04:18
*** Venusaur has joined #maemo04:24
*** amizraa has joined #maemo04:31
*** mschlens_ has joined #maemo04:34
*** mschlens has quit IRC04:38
*** eMHa has joined #maemo04:40
*** keithzg has quit IRC04:44
*** qwerty123 has quit IRC04:44
*** at1as has joined #maemo04:46
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo04:47
*** florian has quit IRC04:51
*** Defiant has quit IRC05:01
*** Defiant has joined #maemo05:02
*** nox- has quit IRC05:17
*** lexik has quit IRC05:20
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo05:22
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC05:28
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo05:28
*** uen| has joined #maemo05:32
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC05:35
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo05:36
*** uen has quit IRC05:36
*** uen| is now known as uen05:36
*** at1as has quit IRC05:42
*** FReaper has joined #maemo05:44
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC05:44
*** FReaper has quit IRC05:50
*** FReaper has joined #maemo05:51
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo06:01
*** Herbstb3rt has joined #maemo06:02
*** lxp has quit IRC06:04
*** Herbstbert has quit IRC06:06
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC06:19
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo06:21
*** Kabouik has quit IRC06:27
*** maybeArgh has joined #maemo06:30
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC06:34
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC06:37
*** qwerty123 has joined #maemo06:45
*** oldtopman has quit IRC06:49
qwerty123Hey anyone dere??!06:59
*** Herbstbert has joined #maemo07:00
*** Herbstb3rt has quit IRC07:02
qwerty123My n900 stops responding sometimes. Cure is to wait or to restart. By unresponding i mean, we can surf thru menu and open any app but then after the app opens, it wont accept any touch or any keypress. For eg, xterm opens w/o the solidcursor (ie wid unfilled cursor) and remains the same!!07:03
DocScrutinizer05qwerty123: ffiixx yyoouurr kkeeyyss!! !! !! !! !!07:15
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: keys??!07:16
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: my keys work fine!!07:16
DocScrutinizer05qwerty123: and please at least *try* to talk a somewhat correct english, leetspeak isn't appreciated here07:16
DocScrutinizer05next "!!" will give you a kick07:17
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: what's the soltuion?07:19
DocScrutinizer05to what?07:20
qwerty123to the problem stated above.07:20
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: my keys work fine.07:20
DocScrutinizer05I don't read statements that have leetspeak in it07:20
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: okay. My phone doesnt respond sometimes. opened apps won't accept any touch or keypress, but menu and home work fine.07:23
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: is it fine for you?07:23
DocScrutinizer05yes, works for me. No such problems seen usually here07:23
*** till has quit IRC07:23
DocScrutinizer05didn't you tell you had problems with your digitizer? You fixed that?07:25
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: what maybe the cause? opening htop shows no excess cpu usage by any app.07:25
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: yep.07:25
DocScrutinizer05I think your hardware is defect07:26
DocScrutinizer05and messing with software to fix that doesn't help but makes thinks worse07:26
DocScrutinizer05things even07:26
qwerty123if hardware is defective, then why would it work for menu and home. only apps go unresponding sometimes.07:27
DocScrutinizer05if you reflash stock maemo5, do NOT install additional apps, and still have same problems, how could it be software?07:28
qwerty123When did i say its stock maemo5 ? It is cssu.07:28
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: That issue was different. Not this one.07:29
DocScrutinizer05you've been advices to reflash stock maemo images and test. Several times now. Until you consider following that advice, I don't see any use in trying to help you out of any 3rd level afterefects07:30
*** valerius has quit IRC07:33
DocScrutinizer05look, nobody else is encountering this overwhelming amount of trouble and unusual bizarre effects. It's a waste of everybody's time to try and diagnose every single one of them, just to finally find each time the same result: probably it's hardware defect07:33
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: thank you.07:34
*** till has joined #maemo07:35
DocScrutinizer05since nobody else suffers same problems, it must be something very individual and unique to your device's hw and/or sw. When the problems persist with virgin maemo5 the it's obviously hw. When the problems are gone the all you can do is install the apps and whatnote widgets/patches/younameit ONE BY ONE one per day, and see which is causing the effects to appear again07:37
DocScrutinizer05(add an "n" to "the" where needed)07:38
*** till has quit IRC07:40
*** FReaper has quit IRC07:43
qwerty123 DocScrutinizer05: thank you. Just to tell, i had done the same thing ( after readingod in some powertop thread )bout tone day, out of the blue, this error occured. This unresponsive screen thing has happened for 5 times in last 2 months. y one installation methid  and suddenly07:45
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: sorry. Vkb error.07:46
*** till has joined #maemo07:46
qwerty123ignore after 2months. thats the vkb error.07:47
DocScrutinizer05device sometimes freezes in swapping hell. particularly when copying huge data volumes between uSD and eMMC07:48
DocScrutinizer05there are no other general problems known07:48
DocScrutinizer05ooh, one: device getting slow after some 5..15 days of uptime, due to swap fragmentation. But that neither explains any of the priblems you see07:49
DocScrutinizer05OTOH *all* your problems seem to be somehow related to digitizer07:50
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: its not the device freezing. menu and homescreen work properly, just the apps donot work. apps dont respond, menu and home do. even to close the notresponding app, have  to use dashboard as app's close button wont respond.07:51
DocScrutinizer05unheard bizarre effect07:52
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: okay. i will get it checked at any shop.07:52
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: not even one case like this?07:53
DocScrutinizer05again: check with virgin stock maemo image without additional packages installed, if the problems persist or return after a few days then it's hardware. Otherwise try to install the packages one by one and see what's the culprit. Nobody in here can help, since it's a new unheard of effect07:54
DocScrutinizer05actually all the efects you reported during last few days are unheard of07:55
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: okay. I will. Wow! maybe cons of getting a used device. thanks for help.07:57
qwerty123DocScrutinizer05: my first one was also unsolved, which was concluded as hardware damage. on newly flashed device c0 98.4 percent in powertop.07:58
*** fk_lx has joined #maemo07:58
DocScrutinizer05just a arbitrary explanation: when digitizer oil is oxidized or some of it got lost somewhere, then any touch may stay sticky and only "opens up the contact between planes" when touching at another point of digitizer. This might work for appstarter, since you virtually "lift your finger" for a few milliseconds when old touchpoint opens and before new touchpoint closes connection between upper and lower digitizer plane. For any app however07:59
DocScrutinizer05this won't usually fly07:59
DocScrutinizer05high C0 also can be an effect caused by "sticky touchpoint": the hildon gfx engine tries to move screen or icon or whatever it is supposed to do with a "point and drag" operation08:00
*** qwerty123 has quit IRC08:03
DocScrutinizer05diagnosing the digitizer with board tools isn't that easy, since the API is already pretty much preprocessed08:03
*** HylianSavior has quit IRC08:03
DocScrutinizer05when he wouldn't leave channel, I'd be able to give him furhter advice, like "enable taktile (vibrator) and audio touch feedback in settings->display(?). Start drawing app, see if there are random drawn lines/dots appearing. Check for proper behaviour of feedback when clicking exactly same point several times."08:07
DocScrutinizer05"open xterm by kbd-shortcut. see if xterm input works. If xterm finally works, start drawing app via xterm cmdlne and see if it works _then_, when it doesn't work when started from applauncher"08:09
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo08:37
*** bef0rd has quit IRC08:43
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo08:43
*** bef0rd has quit IRC08:47
*** phlixi_ has quit IRC08:49
*** phlixi has joined #maemo08:50
*** phlixi has quit IRC08:52
*** XATRIX has joined #maemo08:58
sono_it's like you coded and bult half the phone core.09:00
sono_i didn't even get arounf to thumbifiying yet. work, other projects, hackspace maintenance...09:01
sono_at least my n900 typing is getting faster.09:01
sono_so i am prepared for the neo =)09:01
*** sono_ is now known as sono09:01
*** topro has joined #maemo09:13
*** piggz__ has quit IRC09:14
*** piggz__ has joined #maemo09:14
*** Martix has joined #maemo09:16
*** larrfed has quit IRC09:27
*** larrfed has joined #maemo09:33
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo09:37
*** torindel has quit IRC09:43
*** torindel has joined #maemo09:43
*** zap_ has joined #maemo09:54
*** torindel has quit IRC10:01
*** torindel has joined #maemo10:02
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo10:04
*** LauRoman has quit IRC10:04
*** fk_lx has quit IRC10:05
*** Vanadis_ has quit IRC10:07
*** torindel has quit IRC10:23
*** torindel has joined #maemo10:24
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo10:26
*** utanapischti has quit IRC10:29
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo10:29
*** MMN-o_ is now known as MMN-o10:36
*** andre__ has joined #maemo10:38
*** Pali has joined #maemo10:40
*** Martix has quit IRC10:51
*** mattaust1n has quit IRC11:00
*** arcean has joined #maemo11:02
*** wotan147 has joined #maemo11:07
*** l4m3rx has joined #maemo11:23
*** fk_lx has joined #maemo11:25
*** croppa has quit IRC11:27
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo11:29
Herbstbert"the neo"?11:30
*** zammy has joined #maemo11:38
*** wotan147 has quit IRC11:39
*** torindel has quit IRC11:47
*** torindel has joined #maemo11:53
*** Aggese has joined #maemo12:02
*** zap_ has quit IRC12:04
*** goldkatze has joined #maemo12:05
*** Agge has quit IRC12:05
*** jmlich has joined #maemo12:20
*** FR-PC has joined #maemo12:23
*** torindel has quit IRC12:25
*** torindel has joined #maemo12:26
*** FR-PC has quit IRC12:29
*** lizardo has joined #maemo12:34
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #maemo12:37
*** pcfe_ has joined #maemo12:48
*** eMHa has quit IRC12:58
*** BCMM has joined #maemo12:59
*** dos1 has joined #maemo13:00
*** Martix has joined #maemo13:08
*** Martix has quit IRC13:13
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo13:33
*** eMHa has joined #maemo13:33
*** valerius has joined #maemo13:35
*** arcean has quit IRC13:35
*** dos1 has quit IRC13:38
*** dos1 has joined #maemo13:45
*** dos1 has quit IRC13:45
*** dos1 has joined #maemo13:45
*** jmlich has quit IRC13:45
*** sunweaver has joined #maemo13:45
sunweaverHi all, I just became aware of the Neo900 project. How can I help?13:46
sunweaverI am a Debian Developer and actually would like to see the Hildon Desktop UI in Debian...13:46
sunweaverdoes that make sense?13:46
sunweaverWhat OS will the Neo900 be based on? Does the Maemo project pull in sources from Debian?13:47
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC13:51
*** kenina has joined #maemo13:52
*** Chat-nel has joined #maemo13:52
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo13:53
*** kenina has quit IRC13:56
Chat-nelis it possible to build my own N900 Fiasco image ?13:56
*** pcfe_ has quit IRC13:58
*** arcean_ has quit IRC13:59
*** lbt_ has quit IRC14:00
*** lbt_ has joined #maemo14:00
*** lbt_ has quit IRC14:00
*** lbt_ has joined #maemo14:00
PaliChat-nel: yes14:12
Palilook for sdk-fiasco-gen or 0xFFFF14:13
*** dos1 has quit IRC14:13
infobotmethinks 0xffff is
Chat-nelPali: thank you14:14
*** Veggen has quit IRC14:15
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo14:16
Paliholy shit, it looks like debian will switch from sys V init to upstart14:17
*** Veggen has joined #maemo14:17
Palipeople who are responsibe for decision are from cannonical14:18
*** zap_ has joined #maemo14:19
anYcI also wondered about that, didn't debian complain about ubuntu not helping upstream?14:19
Palibut upstart is maybe better then systemd: proof from definition: systemd is the worst SW ever14:19
PalianYc: problem is that debian tech-ctte people are from canonical. and I bet that canonical people will not vote against canonical sw (upstart)14:21
Paliand another interesting reading about systemd:
anYcPali: yes, and I wonder why they are in this committee14:23
sixwheeledbeastI like upstart TBH. It has benefits14:23
PalianYc: because some other people vote for them...14:23
*** torindel has quit IRC14:24
anYcand systemd can't be that bad if most distributions switch to it14:24
Palino no no no no no no14:24
Palisystemd is one big monotolic shit14:24
*** torindel has joined #maemo14:24
Chat-nelI agree with Pali14:25
Paliwe can wait when systemd eat full linux14:25
Palithen there will be only one linux distribution with name systemd14:25
Palithere will be one binary systemd for everything...14:25
sunweaveranYc: most distros switch to it, because recent GNOME versions depend on its presence.14:25
Paliits not normal14:25
Paliso what?14:26
Paliif some stupid people decide to depeneds on some stupid SW, then I'm forced to use that stupid sw?14:26
*** Neutron1 has quit IRC14:26
Palino, not14:26
sunweaverPali: no. Course not.14:26
sunweaverThere was a long fud on debian-devel about systemd and voting for it...14:27
sunweaverpain of systemd is that it only works on Linux kernels.14:27
Paliin traditinal unix way I was able to use any init daemon, any login daemon, any syslog daemon14:27
* sunweaver likes good ole SystemV14:27
Paliand everything worked14:27
l4m3rxfsck systemd, fsck sysV. bsd init ftw!14:28
sunweaverPali: do you think you can point me to the right direction? What Hildon desktop will be used with Neo900?14:28
Paliif I did not like old syslog daemon, I could switch to syslog-ng and OS worked without problem14:28
*** fk_lx has quit IRC14:28
Paliand now with systemd, I'm not able to replace systemd-logind...14:28
Palialso systemd eat udev14:29
Palilibdbus too14:29
Paliand we can wait what will be next14:29
Palisunweaver: same what in maemo 5?14:29
Palil4m3rx: proof by definition: any SW is better then systemd, so sysv init from bsd is also better14:30
PaliFUCK FUCK FUCK, my kubuntu which is systemdless has files in /lib/systemd/system/ !!!14:31
Paliubuntu migrating to systemd too? now?14:31
PaliOMG, what happening now?14:31
l4m3rxPali, btw the situation now sysV > systemd is a bit like the bsd init> sysV init++++++ situation.... there was no real need for the switch, yet most disros switched....14:31
anYcI'm not really familiar with systemd but I guess it has features that people want and if it's that bad as people say there would be alternatives14:31
anYcPali: at least on Gentoo, packages install systemd files even if systemd is not installed14:32
l4m3rxI'm not comparing sysV to systemd, my point is that the we've already seen this kind of useless init change :S14:32
Paliwhy on the earth??14:32
sunweaverPali: so Maemo stays on the lenny based Debian?14:32
Palito install something which is useless and not needed??14:32
Palisunweaver: for compatibility and for having working system, core should not changed14:33
Palisunweaver: lot of parts in maemo (which are not in debian) depends on current system14:33
sunweaverPali: ok.14:33
Palisunweaver: we need working system, not some new systemd solution which not working!14:33
sunweaverPali: do you know if there is any upstream for the Hildon Desktop UI?14:33
Palisunweaver: we are upstream :-) CSSU14:34
sunweaverPali: what I would like to do is bringing the Hildon desktop to Debian jessie. Where should I obtain code?14:34
sunweaverI guess your Hildon is based on gtk-2 + gconf?14:34
Palisunweaver: yes14:35
sunweaverwhat does ssu stand for? (out of curiosity)14:35
PaliSSU = seamless software update14:35
PaliC stands for Community14:35
anYchm, wasn't cordia doing something similar?
anYcbut looks like is lost14:37
l4m3rxI don't know what will happen with the systemd fisco, but there's one thing sure ...Slackware userbase will grow 'cose of it.14:37
Chat-nell4m3rx: and Gentoo userbase too14:37
*** Pali has quit IRC14:40
l4m3rxand LFS14:42
Chat-nelnot exactly an user-friendly distribution14:43
l4m3rxgentoo had some openrc bs init , right?14:43
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo14:44
anYcdefault is openrc14:44
*** SmilybOrg is now known as Guest3339214:44
l4m3rxcan switch it to bsd init?14:44
anYchm, I don't know, at least there is also a working Gentoo/BSD project14:45
Chat-nelopenrc uses either sysVinit or systemd for Linux kernels14:45
Chat-neland it uses BSD init for FreeBSD kernel14:46
l4m3rxso just another fricken init out there...14:46
l4m3rxwhy didn't they just used the bsd init for both?14:46
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC14:47
l4m3rxoh , cross-service deps ...i see.14:47
*** Hurrian has quit IRC14:49
*** Martix has joined #maemo14:55
DocScrutinizer05I'm founding the official anti-systemd_anti-PolypAudio_anti-kill-udev_anti_nuke-/usr_ANTIANTIANIT-POETTERING_club14:56
DocScrutinizer05PA started to implement stuff that peottering never understood were already existing and working fine in ALSA. sytemd invented to do same for sysV-init, with same wrong rationale14:58
DocScrutinizer05mixing in PA, MY ASS!!! dmix in ALSA worked great, while PA failed epically and hogged CPU15:00
DocScrutinizer05per-app volume, HAHAHAHA. ALSA been able to do this since ages, just peottering didn't know how to do it15:01
DocScrutinizer05audio via network, ALSA can do it15:01
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo15:02
DocScrutinizer05so please tell me since I forgot - what exactly been the reason we NEED PA?15:02
DocScrutinizer05same for systemd15:03
jaskai hope debian doesnt go for systemd.. i'll have to keep sysvinit around manually then15:03
DocScrutinizer05parallelizing init-tasks? FREAKIN SHITE, my Suse-sysVinit has a "parallelize: yes/no" flag since I guess 10 years15:03
DocScrutinizer05and don't get me started on /usr and udev! >:-(15:04
DocScrutinizer05since ages linux is striving to stay and even get more compatible with arbitrary unix. Mr Poettering thinks this is an evil thing that has to get abandoned15:06
wndDocScrutinizer05, where do I sign up?-)15:08
*** sunny_s has quit IRC15:09
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo15:11
*** sunny_s has quit IRC15:12
*** dualhbridge has joined #maemo15:13
*** konelix has joined #maemo15:14
l4m3rxAs a friend likes to say ... 'Some guys are alive only 'cose it's illegal to kill them' :D15:16
l4m3rx^ Mr Poettering is one of them15:16
*** Veggen has quit IRC15:20
*** Veggen has joined #maemo15:22
DocScrutinizer05wnd: wait a short while, I'll go creating a website15:24
DocScrutinizer05virtual club room15:24
DocScrutinizer05~listkey poettering15:26
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys poettering15:26
infobotFactoid search of 'poettering' by key (1): poettering #DEL#.15:26
DocScrutinizer05~unforget poettering15:26
infobotDocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'poettering'.  Have fun now.15:26
DocScrutinizer05like there's no singular (no plural?) of sheep or fish, there's also no basic form of poettering, 'to poetter' doesn't exist15:28
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''15:29
*** Martix has quit IRC15:33
jaskasomeone had deleted it again?15:35
*** Martix has joined #maemo15:38
*** torindel has quit IRC15:41
*** dhbiker has quit IRC15:42
*** torindel has joined #maemo15:43
*** Trizt has quit IRC15:43
*** ArkanoiD_ has quit IRC15:43
*** ArkanoiD_ has joined #maemo15:44
*** Trizt has joined #maemo15:46
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo15:49
*** torindel has quit IRC16:01
*** torindel has joined #maemo16:01
*** sq-one has joined #maemo16:07
*** valerius has quit IRC16:11
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo16:21
*** ShadowJK_ is now known as ShadowJK16:25
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:25
*** KhertanAtwork has joined #maemo16:26
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:28
*** Martix has quit IRC16:28
*** torindel has quit IRC16:29
*** valerius has joined #maemo16:31
*** piggz__ has quit IRC16:34
*** valerius has quit IRC16:37
*** Pali has joined #maemo16:42
*** Martix has joined #maemo16:45
*** valerius has joined #maemo16:56
*** sq-one has quit IRC16:59
*** Martix has quit IRC17:09
*** Martix has joined #maemo17:10
*** valerius has quit IRC17:14
*** dddtest_6dbd7 has joined #maemo17:15
*** HylianSavior has joined #maemo17:16
*** piggz has joined #maemo17:19
*** torindel has joined #maemo17:19
*** dualhbridge has quit IRC17:22
*** torindel has quit IRC17:28
*** torindel has joined #maemo17:29
*** piggz has quit IRC17:33
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo17:36
*** valerius has joined #maemo17:36
*** valerius has quit IRC17:41
*** utanapischti has quit IRC17:42
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo17:43
*** shanttu has joined #maemo17:43
*** dualhbridge has joined #maemo17:45
*** Veggen has quit IRC17:49
*** XATRIX has quit IRC17:50
*** LjL is now known as LjL`17:56
Paliupstart init daemon using ptrace for handling running processes17:58
Palithis is also worse17:58
Paliwhy on the earth people who writing init daemons doing this shits?17:59
*** valerius has joined #maemo18:02
*** julianic has joined #maemo18:03
Pali>>> <DocScrutinizer05> so please tell me since I forgot - what exactly been the reason we NEED PA? <<< My bluetooth audio headset does not work without PA :-( :-(18:05
Chat-nelPali: the dump fiasco image works with 0xFFFF for a N900 ?18:05
PaliChat-nel: what do you mean with that? 0xFFFF can on n900 dump all parts and pack them to fiasco image18:06
Palibut due to optification, you can not easy flash /opt together with rootfs18:06
PaliDocScrutinizer05: alsa cannot use my bluetooth headset (or I did not found any working howto for that)18:07
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''18:08
*** julianic has quit IRC18:10
Chat-nelis there an available package for the N900 ? I tried to use it from my computer for making a dump, but it is not supported18:10
*** djc_ has joined #maemo18:11
PaliChat-nel: you need to compile 0xFFFF for n900 (in scratchbox) yourself18:11
PaliO think there is some beta version build for n900 in TMO thread18:11
infobotrumour has it, 0xffff is
Chat-nelok, thank you18:11
Paliinfobot: 0xFFFF is also
infobotokay, Pali18:12
*** torindel has quit IRC18:12
infoboti heard 0xffff is, or
*** torindel has joined #maemo18:13
PaliDocScrutinizer05: what about replacing pulseaudio server with jackd server?18:15
*** Martix has quit IRC18:16
PaliI do not understand why they did not started to providing additional jackd modules, but they started doing on new audio server esd/pulseaudio18:17
*** LjL` is now known as LjL18:17
*** dos1 has joined #maemo18:18
*** shentey has joined #maemo18:21
*** drussell has quit IRC18:23
*** drussell has joined #maemo18:27
*** rm_work|away is now known as rm_work18:28
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC18:29
*** torindel has quit IRC18:30
*** torindel has joined #maemo18:30
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo18:31
*** valerius has quit IRC18:33
*** shentey has quit IRC18:34
*** shentey has joined #maemo18:34
*** sixwheeledbeast has left #maemo18:35
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo18:35
*** shentey has quit IRC18:36
*** shentey_ has joined #maemo18:36
*** torindel has quit IRC18:44
*** torindel has joined #maemo18:47
*** fk_lx has joined #maemo18:50
*** valerius has joined #maemo18:58
*** shentey_ has quit IRC18:59
*** torindel has quit IRC19:00
*** torindel has joined #maemo19:01
*** Kabouik has quit IRC19:01
*** BCMM has quit IRC19:02
*** valerius has quit IRC19:14
*** shamus has quit IRC19:32
*** shamus has joined #maemo19:33
*** z1pp0 has joined #maemo19:35
*** valerius has joined #maemo19:38
*** dos1 has quit IRC19:38
Chat-nelbonsoir z1pp019:40
z1pp0sa va??19:40
*** djc_ has quit IRC19:41
Chat-nelvite fait19:41
*** jas4711 has joined #maemo19:41
z1pp0Quoi Vite fait19:45
z1pp0Sa va Vite?19:45
*** z1pp0 has quit IRC19:46
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC19:49
*** Timmy has joined #maemo19:49
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo19:50
*** mvp has joined #maemo19:53
*** mavhc has quit IRC20:01
*** mavhc has joined #maemo20:04
*** Martix has joined #maemo20:07
*** mavhc has quit IRC20:08
*** Timmy has quit IRC20:08
*** mavhc has joined #maemo20:09
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ((My bluetooth audio headset does not work without PA)) that's because of silly bluez-devels decided to only support PA and no ALSA20:10
Paliyes :-(20:11
DocScrutinizer05it's not a deficiency of ALSA or a merit of PA though20:11
*** zap__ has joined #maemo20:11
DocScrutinizer05the dynamic switching from anohter audio sink to BT headset is a bit tricky to implement in ALSA20:11
Paliit is ever possible?20:12
DocScrutinizer05but unless you want to pair arbitrary new headsets while listening to music and then switch to that freshly paired headset without any gap in playback, it *can* get done in ALSA as well, simply by defining multiple sinks and giving a dedicated level control/muteswitch to each one of them20:13
DocScrutinizer05you just need to know the sinks prior to opening the ALSA stack, since they need to be defined in stack definition before you do20:14
DocScrutinizer05this would evem allow to playback via *both* BT headset and e.g. AV-jack20:14
*** NIN101 has quit IRC20:18
DocScrutinizer05and ALSA has a nice method to start arbitrary executables on opening/closing an alsa stack, you just define the executable to run in the stack definition (~/.asoundrc)20:18
DocScrutinizer05I created a lib to provide that function20:19
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo20:20
DocScrutinizer05you could change mixer settings (that's what ALSA always been able to do, even without my or execute whatever you like, e.g. switch on the BT or your home-stereo20:21
*** torindel has quit IRC20:22
*** torindel has joined #maemo20:22
DocScrutinizer05since the app is using alsa library to open the ALSA stack you defined in e.g. .asoundrc and the library is in app context, ALSA also sees same env vars you set up for the app. one of those can be a redefinition of "default" for those idiotic apps that can't choose the ALSA device to open/use but always open alsa_default device20:29
*** torindel has quit IRC20:29
*** torindel has joined #maemo20:30
DocScrutinizer05you just place a env expansion for "$alsa_default" into the definition of default pcm, and thus you make any arbitrary (even "broken") app open whatever device(-audiostack) you want20:34
*** torindel has quit IRC20:35
*** torindel has joined #maemo20:41
*** dualhbridge has quit IRC20:45
*** flo_lap is now known as florian20:47
*** Martix has quit IRC20:48
*** bef0rd has quit IRC20:54
*** sq-one has joined #maemo20:58
*** dos1 has joined #maemo20:59
*** torindel has quit IRC21:06
*** torindel has joined #maemo21:07
DocScrutinizer05Pali: unlike any other audio concept you don't need ANY patches to the app that wants to use special audio device21:10
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo21:14
*** Vanadis has quit IRC21:15
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo21:16
*** dualhbridge has joined #maemo21:19
*** japa-fi has quit IRC21:19
*** Martix has joined #maemo21:19
*** Dynamit has quit IRC21:21
*** Dynamit has joined #maemo21:21
*** torindel has quit IRC21:22
*** dualhbridge has quit IRC21:23
*** dualhbridge has joined #maemo21:23
*** torindel has joined #maemo21:24
*** torindel has quit IRC21:29
*** sr71_ is now known as sr7121:29
*** torindel has joined #maemo21:30
*** japa-fi has joined #maemo21:33
*** dualhbridge has quit IRC21:33
*** dualhbridge has joined #maemo21:35
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo21:36
*** valerius has quit IRC21:37
*** dualhbridge has quit IRC21:40
*** Neutron1 has joined #maemo21:48
*** valerius has joined #maemo21:55
*** Woody14619a has joined #maemo21:55
*** Woody14619a has joined #maemo21:55
*** Woody14619 has quit IRC21:58
*** torindel has quit IRC22:02
*** torindel has joined #maemo22:02
*** Martix has quit IRC22:03
*** Martix has joined #maemo22:04
*** torindel has quit IRC22:10
*** torindel has joined #maemo22:10
*** valerius has quit IRC22:14
*** Martix has quit IRC22:18
*** jas4711 has quit IRC22:26
*** Jo2006 has joined #maemo22:27
*** oldtopman has joined #maemo22:28
*** frederic has joined #maemo22:29
*** Jo2006 has quit IRC22:30
*** Jo2006 has joined #maemo22:31
*** valerius has joined #maemo22:33
*** torindel has quit IRC22:33
*** torindel has joined #maemo22:33
*** shentey has joined #maemo22:36
*** kolp has joined #maemo22:36
*** jas4711 has joined #maemo22:39
*** Veggen has joined #maemo22:47
*** arcean_ has quit IRC22:51
*** lizardo has quit IRC22:55
*** shentey has quit IRC22:57
*** shamus has quit IRC22:58
*** shamus has joined #maemo22:59
*** Martix has joined #maemo23:00
*** nox- has joined #maemo23:04
*** guampa has joined #maemo23:04
*** Chat-nel has quit IRC23:05
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo23:06
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 fundraiser started23:07
* kolp is waiting for the feasibility study, though23:09
*** Martix has quit IRC23:10
*** Martix has joined #maemo23:10
*** shanttu has quit IRC23:10
*** mvp has quit IRC23:11
*** dddtest_6dbd7 has quit IRC23:11
*** mvp has joined #maemo23:12
*** hbib has joined #maemo23:13
DocScrutinizer05it should be online, there been an issue which requeres login to access it23:14
DocScrutinizer05I hope that will be fixed soon23:15
DocScrutinizer05the study is a moving target, it kinda documents our recent status23:16
DocScrutinizer05and it's "unfinished" even to the current state, as it always lags behind a bit23:16
kolpAh, I thought that login was kinda an indicator that it's not done yet23:16
kolps/not done/not available/23:17
infobotkolp meant: Ah, I thought that login was kinda an indicator that it's not available yet23:17
*** konelix has quit IRC23:18
*** konelix has joined #maemo23:18
dos1kolp: I'll put the link to feasibility study on homepage soon23:21
sonodo it ASAP, don't hurt credibility...23:21
kolpdos1: Great! Would be cool if you could put a new post on the RSS feed, too, when it's there23:22
dos1kolp: should be there23:23
*** djc_ has joined #maemo23:23
dos1my reader even already picked it up ;)23:23
sonomarvelous thing, this internet23:24
kolpdos1: The fundraiser announcement, yes. I was talking about the feasibility study link ;)23:24
dos1oh, ok23:24
dos1sure :)23:24
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo23:39
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo23:42
*** dos11 has joined #maemo23:52
*** dos1 has quit IRC23:52
DocScrutinizer05(fweasibility study) I'm sure Nikolaus forgot to set it public. Should be fixed soon, the link/URL will stay stable23:58
*** japa-fi has quit IRC23:59
DocScrutinizer05btw you probably could just create an account and then log in to access it right away23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!