IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-09-29

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DocScrutinizer05Pali: yes, but he hoped to see you in that channel I created on your request00:08
PaliI do not have here on n900 data and irc client from desktop version...00:10
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Macerhow odd00:37
Maceri don't know what it is that windows uses to figure out if something should connect via a direct connection or as an adhoc connection00:37
Maceri have to keep re-adding the n900 to get pan to work properly00:37
Macerat least it works00:42
Macerhalf assly but still works nonetheless00:42
ShadowJKI was creating bt dun between rPi and N900, and walked out of range. Hasnt worked since00:43
ShadowJKI guess both needs powercycle now00:43
Maceri wish rt supported dun00:43
Macerso much easier00:43
ShadowJKsurface rt?00:43
Macerat least from the n900 side00:43
Macerandroid, ipad, and surface rt use pan00:43
Macernone directly support dun00:43
ShadowJKAndroid does, but only stock stock stock fw?00:44
Macernope. it doesn't00:44
Macernot unless they added it later00:44
ShadowJKive seen it on cheap china tablets00:44
Macerbut my 4.2.2 only supports pan00:44
Macernot dun00:44
ShadowJKso I assumed they didnt bother to kill it00:45
Macerthey did00:45
Macerit worked in 3.x00:45
Macerremoved in 4.x00:45
Macerfigure that one out00:45
Macerpan only00:45
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ShadowJKMy firefox phone doesn't do any interwebs over bt00:45
Macerwouldnt be that big of a deal if the n900 wasn't such a bitch to configure pan on00:45
ShadowJKbut it does wifi00:45
Maceri wish mobilehotspot had pan heh00:45
Macersurface rt doesn't do adhoc either00:46
Macerwindows rt should i say00:46
ShadowJKWell, anything linuy is a bitch to configure anything bluetooth on00:46
Macerbut again... nor does android heh00:46
ShadowJKbecause it's essentially undocumented, and it changes every year00:46
Maceri found that out with pan :-P00:46
Maceri came across an ancient maemo wiki00:47
Macerthat sort of explained it00:47
Macerafter that i just got lucky00:47
ShadowJKit's probably from N8x0 days, I remember there was lots of PAN headache when some blackberry came that only did PAN00:47
Maceryeah but you would think that someone would have integrated it into maemo00:48
Maceror made an app that runs scripts or auto loads the pan network on bnep0 detection heh00:48
ShadowJKit went the other way00:48
ShadowJKdun client support was ttotally killed00:48
Maceryeah haha00:49
Macerwell. all the mobile oses use pan00:49
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Macernone seem to use adhoc or dun00:49
Macerwhich is odd since dun is so easy heh00:49
Maceri just wish i could figure out what is causing windows rt to change from "direct connection" to "adhoc connection"00:50
Maceror if it matters00:50
Maceri haven't done much testing other than to know it works00:50
Macerbut it still requires that i run a script manually on the n900 after the connection00:50
Macerthen flush the tables afterwards00:50
ShadowJKDUN is "hard" for the server00:51
ShadowJKAlso, you, of all people, RT? :)00:51
Macerof all people? windows is fine heh00:52
Macerother than this niche pan issue it has been spectacular00:52
Maceranybody who says otherwise hasn't used a surface00:52
Macerplus they priced it right00:52
Macer$500+ was too expensive for an rt00:53
ShadowJKagreed on the price00:53
ShadowJKI've used a pro00:53
Maceri didn't want the pro because it is retarded with its sleep mode00:54
Macerit's like putting a pc to sleep00:54
Macerno notifications00:54
Macerno always on like the arm00:54
Macerand the battery on the arm is a beasw00:54
Macersurface has a micro sd slot too heh00:55
Macersdxc at that00:55
Macerso it would be a miracle if they sold anything other than the 32GB model lol00:55
ShadowJKand I have a win8 on a laptop00:55
Macerwin8 sucks on legacy stuff00:55
ShadowJKOn tablet, I get pissed off when it switches to classic00:55
Macerthe interface is awful for a mouse/kb00:56
Maceryeah lol00:56
Maceri hate that too00:56
ShadowJKon laptop, I get pissed off when it switches to metro00:56
Maceryup lol00:56
Macersame here00:56
Macermight as well dual boot a pc00:56
Macerthey should have made a way for legacy apps to run in a metro "window"00:56
Maceron the laptop i installed it on00:57
Maceri just installed some app that brings a "start" menu back and disables metro00:57
Macerthen realized.. i should have just stuck with win7 on the laptop00:57
ShadowJKYes I use classic shell on laptop00:57
Maceryou have to jailbreak winrt00:58
Macerto install 3rd party arm apps00:58
Macerlike putty00:58
Macerbut i don't do much on the desktop side. i just shelled out the money for an ssh app00:58
Macermost of the stock metro stuff does whatever i need00:58
ShadowJKWin8 is a nightmare for the non-techie user00:59
Maceryeh lol00:59
Macerthe segregation of metro/classic is lame01:00
Macerthat is where people get confused01:00
Macerthey'd have been better off making "Windows Tablet" and "Windows Desktop"01:00
Macerand keeping desktop for the legacy gear01:00
Macerand tablet with metro based stuff on tablets01:00
ShadowJKthe stuff is the biggest confusor for normal users01:00
Macerwell. i think they want people to use outlook.com01:01
Macerwhich is actually... absolutely awesome01:01
Macercompared to... say.... google01:01
Macerand MS seems big on FB integration01:01
Macergoogle is following a path of destruction01:01
Macerthey're closing themselves up01:01
Macerbait and switch01:01
ShadowJKNo I mean01:02
ShadowJKUser starts computer. It asks for email and pass01:02
Maceroh. yeah heh01:02
Macerthey don't have to enter a live user/pw tho i thought01:03
Maceri just happened to have one heh. i think it's illegal for ms to do that because of some anti-trust settlement from the 90s01:03
ShadowJKThey don't, but it's nonobvious that it's voluntary01:03
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Maceryeah well... google does it :) but i guess they have a giant "skip" button heh01:03
Macerit has been a while01:04
Maceri'm just glad i can keep my n90001:04
Macerfor pan.. i was about to get some cheap nokia 52001:04
Macerno 1020 for tmobile users unless you find an unlocked att model that supports their bands :(01:04
Maceri'd have loved to get a 102001:04
ShadowJKI earned 50 bucks the other day, new win8 user called and said he can't "open" his computer01:05
ShadowJKTurned out, he entered his email account when it asked for LiveID01:06
ShadowJKand after rebooting, it was refusing logon01:06
ShadowJKbecause his account password wasnt same as user@gmail pass01:06
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nox-so you need to be online now to login to a local windows?01:07
ShadowJKAmusing thing is, he entered pass wrong so many times, even if he had the right pass, it refused01:07
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ShadowJKnox-; ya01:07
ShadowJKAnd it locked not only his PC, but every other win8 pc he has.01:08
ShadowJKHelpfully, the login screen adviced to visit
ShadowJKwhich yo onviously cant do if pc is locked01:08
ShadowJK(and all your other win8 PCs are also locked)01:09
nox-reasons i dont like windows++01:09
ShadowJKYeah so I show up, put into my N900 and reset his password01:09
ShadowJKearn 50 bucks, leave01:10
nox-yeah good for support ppl to earn money i suppose :)01:10
keriohold on, how do you login if you're offline?01:15
nox-i guess then the nsa cannot watch you so you dont :P01:16
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jonwilPali: ping02:20
jonwil~seen Pali02:23
infobotpali is currently on #maemo (2h 31m 2s) #maemo-ssu (2h 31m 2s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 2h 12m 29s, last said: 'I do not have here on n900 data and irc client from desktop version...'.02:23
DocScrutinizer05[2013-09-29 01:28:15] [Whois] Pali is logged in as Pali.02:28
DocScrutinizer05NS dead?02:29
DocScrutinizer05oohdamn, only lagging02:29
DocScrutinizer05Pali: it seems you have all the "data" you need02:30
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MacerShadowJK: funny thing about that03:04
Macergoogle closed their syncing with win803:04
Macerthey turned their gmail connector off for exchange. so a win8 user can no long sync his google stuff to win803:05
Macerlike people etc03:05
Macerwhat a bunch of douchebags03:05
Macera surefire way that you can tell google is nevous about ms growth in the mobile area03:06
Macerwithout android google is another yahoo03:06
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jonwilAndroid is a far better phone platform than Windows Phone will ever be03:12
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jonwileven (gasp) iOS is a better platform than Windows Phone03:30
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jonwilof course Maemo beats all of em :)03:41
ShadowJKAmusingly, if you take the biggest criticisms Maemo ever got03:53
ShadowJKAnd make those points work absolutely perfectly03:53
ShadowJKand ignore everything else03:53
ShadowJKyou more or less end up with winpho03:54
ShadowJK(of course, everything *good* about maemo is also gone)03:54
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wmaronebiggest criticisms?04:21
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ShadowJKsmoothness, vsync, phone functionality04:34
DocScrutinizer05what's wrong with phone?04:34
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DocScrutinizer05maybe except that US t-mpbile 3G band issue04:35
DocScrutinizer05I still think it's one of the best sounding phones I ever had04:35
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ShadowJKPeople were upset about features04:36
DocScrutinizer05ok, it has "issues" with decoding/recognizing inbound numbers, when they are too weird04:37
ShadowJKLike no contact groups thingy04:37
DocScrutinizer05that's contacts though, not exactly phone04:37
ShadowJKThe lumias I've seen are splendid at those things04:38
ShadowJKAnd the users are generally like "yeah, the os and phone itself is awesome, I guess.. But I can't actually *do* anything with it"04:38
DocScrutinizer05what *really* sucks is no qualified fulltext search in any of the Nokia apps04:38
ShadowJK(and then they generally throw it against a wall)04:39
DocScrutinizer05everything incl groups could get implemented by that04:39
ShadowJKOh I recently got pissed off that typing stuff in "app menu" searches contacts instead of apps04:39
DocScrutinizer05another sucker is the missing customization of contact screens04:40
DocScrutinizer05like: I need to manually add "address" field every single time I create a new contact04:40
DocScrutinizer05yeah, another idiocy, but luckily applauncher is FOSS, no?04:41
ShadowJK(in firefoxos, searches search everything, and the results with highest comission are topmost, like amazon)04:41
DocScrutinizer05I recall palmpilot and sigh04:42
DocScrutinizer05actually I think the contacts app should be easy to rewrite as FOSS04:44
DocScrutinizer05with full integration04:44
DocScrutinizer05I mean, the db format is known, and all the d-bus calls for invoking calls or sipcalls or even address in map or any chats or SMS are all known, no?04:45
DocScrutinizer05should be a nice beginner's project to rewrite it, now that we know how stuff works04:46
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sixwheeledbeastping: M4rtink16:34
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: pong16:36
sixwheeledbeasthi :) IIRC you asked about how to monitor internet connection on n900 a few days ago?16:37
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: yes16:42
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: I know I can register a callback and get notified about connectivity changes16:42
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: have you seen
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: but the issue was how to check if the device is online at a given time16:43
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: no, where does it live ? :)16:43
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sixwheeledbeastIt seems to be included in sereisfinale to make the update button appear. also in resistance and etc etc16:43
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: thanks, I'll check it out :)16:46
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: I thought it maybe worth mentioning, I guess you could just import it in to your code.16:46
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: for now, I'm using this:
M4rtinKbased on example code from r00t|home16:46
M4rtinKseems to work quite fine both on the N900 and PC at least :)16:47
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: it's in that pastebin if needed, seems a standard file that's imported into lots of maemo apps. :)16:48
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M4rtinKyeah, there are some other like this :)16:50
int_uaM4rtinK, BTW, is it true that if I zoom somewhere without a connection to see the "Downloading..." tiles and connect after that the tiles won't download?16:50
M4rtinKfor example the automatic rotation code from GPodder16:50
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int_uaM4rtinK, the question is about ModRana16:50
M4rtinKint_ua: could be16:50
M4rtinKbut if you zoom in and out again a bit16:51
M4rtinKthe stale download requests should get replaced by new ones and it should start downloading tiles normally16:51
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M4rtinKint_ua: but a good point, there might be room for improvement16:52
M4rtinKint_ua: I can check if the device is online or not and display an appropriate error/info tile16:52
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: AFAIK this uses the connection to see if it's available. It your code if gateway was missing or firewall issues it may not work.16:53
M4rtinKint_ua: and start downloading once Internet is available16:53
sixwheeledbeasts/It/It uses16:53
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: well, it tries to guess in Internet is available16:54
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: so missing gateway should not be an issue, as long as it reports "not online"16:55
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: sure, I could ping some IP address or website, but that could have user privacy implications16:56
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: BTW, regarding connectionmanager.py16:57
M4rtinKIf I understand it correctly, I already have this16:57
ashleyso far I've had very little luck in finding a FOSS Game Boy Color emulator for the N900 -- I have gbSP installed, but it doesn't seem to be able to open/play Game Boy Color ROMs (which is somewhat ironic, because the real Game Boy Advance *does* run GBC games ;-); the relevant wiki page ( lists only Marat Fayzullin's _non-free_ VGB I just failing at using's search/Google properly or is it so that t16:57
ashleyhe only emulator capable of handling .gbc files is a closed-source one? :-/16:57
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M4rtinKI register a callback and tel icd to get me a connection using saved settings16:57
paroneayeaneo900 eh? :o16:57
paroneayeait sounds too good to be true16:58
paroneayeabut, it sounds so good if true :)16:58
M4rtinKbut if I understand it correctly, if the device ie already connected, the callback won't be called, as there will be no changes in connectivity16:58
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: Ok I am no expert, I noticed this in the source of seriesfinale and thought I'd mention it, save you time writing something :)16:59
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: still thanks, I think I might still find something useful in the code17:02
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: does seriesfinake show the update button even if launched with Internet connectivity already established ?17:03
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sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: np, it is used to add/remove a update button depending on connection state in seriesfinale17:03
M4rtinKI think one of the flags it is passing to conic might make it call the connectivity callback immediately once the callback is registered17:04
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: that's what I mean - if the callback was only called on changes in connectivity17:05
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: if seriesfinale was launched with connectivity enabled, it would not show the button17:05
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sixwheeledbeastlet me check17:05
M4rtinKaa the callback would not be called until Internet connectivity was disabled and enabled17:05
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M4rtinKI guess there might be some magic involved with the conic.CONNECT_FLAG_AUTOMATICALLY_TRIGGERED flag17:11
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M4rtinKgoogling for it turns only the series finale code17:12
M4rtinKconic is closes, isn't it ?17:12
jonwilnope, conic is open17:13
jonwilI bet its mostly a wrapper around the icd dbus APIs17:14
Paliit really should be only wrapper around icd2 dbus api17:15
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sixwheeledbeastNew modRana :)17:38
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: yeah, finally :)17:42
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: I'm working on the release announcement17:42
M4rtinKis has fixes for A LOT  of issues :17:42
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: I always keep one eye on the latest packages, fixes are the most important updates :)17:43
M4rtinKI'm thinking about pushing this version to testing if nothing serious shows up in the next few days17:43
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: that would be great. I am looking for packages worthy of extras for the "testing squad" ;)17:49
sixwheeledbeastIt's been a while since the extras version was updated. 36.6?17:50
dos1DocScrutinizer05, GeneralAntilles: any progress about /. annoucement?17:55
GeneralAntillesI'll try to do it tonight.17:58
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: yep, there were quite a lot of invasive changes in between17:59
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: & also the Extras infra was also a bit in flux17:59
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: so that's why17:59
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sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: :nod: I understand. You also have to have a good balance of development and public releases, or you wouldn't get extra features18:02
M4rtinKM4rtinK: sure18:02
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: sure :)18:02
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: modRana is a bit extreme in this regard, as usually you release a version and then do builds that patch the base version and fix issues18:03
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: while development goes forward in a devel branch, which is then stabilised, released, etc.18:04
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: but all modRana releases are done from the master branch :)18:04
M4rtinKwell I guess many smaller projects do it like this18:04
sixwheeledbeastIt's seems for most mid-large projects the way you suggest is the best18:07
sixwheeledbeastmany packages in maemo are not that complex. You have modRana working on many platforms and it has a fair bit of code in there.18:08
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SysaxedDoes anybody know if a license can be removed if the source code was modified way too much? For example if the code was changed so much that it doesn't even have any line that is the same as the original one18:15
M4rtinKOK then, there is the modRana V0.43.3 release announcement - enjoy ! :D
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sixwheeledbeastSysaxed: then it's not the same code18:30
Sysaxedsixwheeledbeast: what do you mean?18:34
sixwheeledbeastwell if none of the code is the same then you haven't use any code18:35
Sysaxedand what if some code persists? Just a little bit18:37
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: looks like directly requesting connection from conic does the trick20:52
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: request_connection(conic.CONNECT_FLAG_AUTOMATICALLY_TRIGGERED)20:52
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: like this the connection state callback is called at once with current connection status20:53
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: so if the device is online, the application will be notified once trying to enable connectivity20:53
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: also looks like the callback is called once registered at startup20:54
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: so like this, the whole application lifecycle should be covered20:54
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: so thanks for pointing me to the script :)20:55
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sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: np, anytime. Thanks for explaining.  :)23:16
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