IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-09-20

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infobotmooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type apt-get moo.00:23
RiDleave infobot alone00:24
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: I've had one issue with N900. Actually, it was rather issue of PSU of my laptop,00:40
dos1I've had broken audio jack in laptop, so I wanted to workaround it by connecting N900 to amplifier and streaming music to it00:41
dos1over wifi there were some hickups, so I connected it via usb00:41
dos1and everything was nice, until laptop was connected to the charger00:42
RiDuh oh00:42
dos1then there was TEH BUZZ00:42
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RiDdid it set on fire00:42
dos1it was the same with audio jack on laptop (when hold correctly, otherwise no audio at all :P), so it was polluting everything with some interferences00:43
dos1so, out of curiosity, as I don't have this laptop anymore00:44
dos1would there be some way to prevent the buzz from spreading via usb cable to audio jack of N900?00:44
dos1or maybe Neo900? :D00:44
RiDyour issue is kind of unique00:45
RiDsomeone tells me that laptop was dangerous00:45
dos1RiD: nothing bad happened in about 2 years after that00:45
RiDi remember i got scared once, the n900 thought my earphones (with mic) were TV-out, the sound was all weird00:46
dos1it was just quiet buzz in audio, like with electric guitars near power cables00:47
dos1quiet, but very annoying00:47
RiDlike some crappy phones have static noise00:47
RiDi think even samsung s2 had that00:47
dos1I'm just wondering if there's some easy way to shield it so such noise from usb cable wouldn't interfere with audio00:50
dos1maybe even not on customer level, but on device manufacturer level too00:51
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keriodos1: use a usb soundcard!00:54
dos1kerio: I wonder if it wouldn't suffer from exactly the same problem :P00:55
DocScrutinizer05this is a very well known issue, frequently found with tuners connected to roof-located aerials00:55
DocScrutinizer05it would00:56
RiDhey, anyone experienced with amazon purchases... how is the whole warranty thing there?00:56
DocScrutinizer05you need to open up the GND loop00:56
RiDWhat if my stuff still works - but already a little unreliable (talking about headphone audio cable)00:56
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DocScrutinizer05you frequently use galvanic isolation to do this00:56
DocScrutinizer05like: audio-transformer(s)00:57
DocScrutinizer05whatever works for you.  And _do_ _NOT_ connect GND/shielding from one side of galvanic "gap" to the other side00:58
DocScrutinizer05"DI-box" comes to mind00:58
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DocScrutinizer05well, actually is not *exactly* what you need, though most of them work as "galvanic gap" as well01:02
DocScrutinizer05sorry for de_DE:
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: thanks!01:05
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dos1nice stuff to know01:11
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dos1once again thanks, one mystery of this world resolved :D01:14
RiD+1 IQ point01:15
dos1yeah :)01:16
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DocScrutinizer05alas proper ground loop isolation is bulky and "expensive", otherwise I had included it to Neo900 AV-out01:17
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sixwheeledbeastYep, Doc spot on as usual, ground loop hum. It's annoying. Maybe external ground loop isolation on the av-out as a workaround.01:24
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DocScrutinizer05sometimes turning one mains-plug by 180° helps a bit01:52
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DocScrutinizer05also connect all mains-powered devices to same multi-outlet01:52
DocScrutinizer05but often only ground loop isolators for audio line-cables and/or antennae help01:54
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DocScrutinizer05in professional environments (stage, stadium...) you use differential line to completely avoid this problem01:56
DocScrutinizer05see DI-unit01:56
DocScrutinizer05on mic you see XLR for that01:56
DocScrutinizer05for obvious reasons XLR can't be used on Neo900 ;-)02:04
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DocScrutinizer05thus no balanced audio on embedded02:04
DocScrutinizer05high class audio equipment uses RCA with balanced in/out02:05
DocScrutinizer05aka cinch02:05
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DocScrutinizer05those devices don't have galvanic connection between case and cinch shielding02:05
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DocScrutinizer05alas this also can't get done in embedded for AV-out, for various technical reasons02:06
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: (MWKN twitter) "Jolla finally seems to disclose details about "TOH" thechnical specs - says 'I2C'"
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: (MWKN twitter) "Joerg R. notes: ``I2C usual bandwidth is 400k''"03:16
DocScrutinizer05anyway probably the best you can do for such an expansion bus - USB is nice for *some* usecases but reallly horrible regarding some other aspects, like power consumption and handler overhead03:19
int_uapali: ping03:19
DocScrutinizer05as a ballparc figure, the OMAP3 musb-core (hardware controller for the USB interface) seems to eat 60mA for mere standby03:20
int_uaHi, what do you think about creating some package, let's say "no-modest" and adding it as another dependency with OR argument to the mp-fremantle-community-pr?03:22
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int_uahave to leave now, the thread is
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DocScrutinizer05won't fly aiui03:38
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Macernow the real question04:27
Macerdoes the pan keep its settings04:27
Macerwhen i disconnect/reconnect04:27
Macerif it does that would be awesome04:27
Maceri need to find a way to adjust it for the wifi coming on too04:27
Maceri sure wish this stuff was built into mobilehotspot04:28
Macerwould make life way easier heh04:28
psycho_oreosMaybe you could notify the maintainer and tell him how you did it.04:28
psycho_oreosEven better, embed the function yourself and submit the patch.04:34
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jonwil~seen nicolai05:13
infoboti haven't seen 'nicolai', jonwil05:13
psycho_oreos~seen _nicolai_05:28
infobot_nicolai_ <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 7h 28m 23s ago, saying: 'hi'.05:28
psycho_oreosjonwil, ^05:29
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Oooaaa~seen _nicolai_06:16
infobot_nicolai_ <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 8h 16m 24s ago, saying: 'hi'.06:16
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Maceri think i really have to start better understanding the fundamentals of how this pan connection works07:01
Maceri'm really unsure as to which steps i am taking to get it to work07:01
Macerfor some reason windows shows connect using adhoc07:01
Macerbut when i readd the device gives me a direct connect option07:01
Macerit's weird07:01
robbiethe1stIt's Windows07:02
Maceris it?07:02
Maceri had to readd the pan device07:02
robbiethe1stI mean... Windows07:02
Macerand it gives me the direct connection option07:02
robbiethe1stWindows is never consistant about anything; why should it be about this?07:02
Macerit seems to work but i'm trying to figure it out to the point where i can do it step by step07:03
Macerfor people who wantto use their n900 for pan tethering07:03
robbiethe1stNo, no specific help, I'd chalk it up to Windows being Windows07:03
robbiethe1stI did it on Linux, IIRC07:03
Macerwell. android and windows use pan07:03
Macerwell... windows rt07:03
robbiethe1stI do everything on Linux, and it's always consistant - it either works right every time, or fails completely07:03
Maceri have a surface rt07:03
Maceri suppose07:04
Maceri've had myself pulling hair out over kernel builds long ago07:04
Macerbut tbh there really isn't a reason to use pan on a linux box07:04
Macersince linux uses dun just fine07:05
Macerpan is a oain07:05
Maceri honestly don't have the steps down to get the connectin cosistent07:05
Maceri think i just got lucky twice lol07:06
Maceri know the n900 just creates the bnep0 and pan0 connections and just uses iptables to brute force the pkts between the two07:07
Macerit doesn't seem like a bridge is necessary07:07
Macerat least not on the n900 server side07:07
Maceri need to install sshd on my n90007:07
Macerand figure it out07:07
Macermaybe someone can take the work and add it to mobilehotspot to make this less irritating heh07:08
Macerat least i was able to jailbreak the surface and install putty07:09
Macerthe only decent metro client seems to not be able to use non-standard ports heh07:09
Maceranyways... i'm just goig to leae the connection active and not touch it while it is workig heh07:10
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jonwilanyone here any good with debian packaging?12:38
jonwilSome help to make debian packaging files for a couple of packages12:45
inzI've created my fair share of packages12:45
inzNot an expert, but I'd say I'm "any good" =)12:45
jonwilgot an email address or something I can send the files to?12:46
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jonwilI would like some debian packaging bits for hald-addon-bme-dev, osso-systemui-modechange-dev, osso-systemui-devlock-dev and osso-systemui-splashscreen-dev12:55
jonwilthe packages should simply copy the contents of include in each package to /usr/include12:55
jonwilkeeping the paths intact12:55
inzfor which maemo version is this?12:56
jonwili.e. include/systemui/splashscreen-dbus-names.h becomes /usr/include/systemui/splashscreen-dbus-names.h12:56
jonwilif a makefile is required (i.e. make install etc) feel free to create what is needed12:56
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jonwilfor changelog you can just put "initial release"12:58
jonwilfor hald-addon-bme-dev use version 0.0.17+0m512:58
jonwilfor osso-systemui-modechange-dev use version 0.3.5+0m512:59
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jonwilfor osso-systemui-splashscreen-dev use version 0.2.30+0m513:00
jonwiland for osso-systemui-devlock-dev use version
jonwilany other info you need to be able to produce these?13:01
inzI think that's 'nuff13:01
jonwilI would get Pali or someone to do these but he isn't here :)13:05
jonwiland I am doing dev work nowish :)13:05
jonwilor I will be once my Gentoo box finishes it full emerge run :)13:06
jonwil310 of 367 :)13:08
inzI would insert a link to funroll lopps dot info, if I were in the mood.13:08
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Palijonwil: what?13:17
PaliI'm here13:18
jonwiloh ok13:18
jonwilwell inz is already packaging up those files for me now :P13:18
Paliwhat packaging?13:18
jonwilread scrollback13:19
inzjonwil, replied13:21
inzhmm, GMail's smtp not responding...13:21
inzokie, it was just slow13:23
Palijonwil: you need debian packaging for those systemui headers which I created?13:23
jonwilyeah I did but now inz did it :)13:23
Paliok :-)13:23
inzI have a faint memory of creating such packages sometime long ago...13:23
Palithen please upload them somewhere, so I do not need to do it again...13:23
PaliI will push git repositories to gitorious...13:24
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inzoh yeah, the package I created didn't contain the headers for those13:26
jonwilheaders for what?13:26
jonwilthe packages you created look good inz13:27
inzjonwil, if you look at the changelog of osso-systemui-dbus-dev, you might recognise a name13:27
jonwilwhat name?13:28
inzMy name =)13:28
inzI knew I had package system ui headers before, but it just didn't contain those ones13:28
jonwilyeah too bad Nokia for whatever reason didn't release those systemui headers :P13:28
jonwilmeans I have to reverse engineer things to verify that they are correct :P13:28
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Palijonwil: in some headers is info that order of enums may not be correct...13:29
inzI would've been more than happy to publish 'em all, but you know how these things go13:30
Palimaybe you can check this13:30
jonwilyeah I do plan to check that13:30
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jonwilI blame the lawyers and management13:31
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jonwilCorporate lawyers are quite high on my personal list of things this world would be better without13:37
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jonwil is what we have, I still need to do some checks obviously13:43
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jonwili.e. its the packaging completed but the header files need to be validated13:43
jonwilwhich I will be doing soonish13:43
jonwiljust need my gentoo box to finish emerging so I can compile some things :P13:44
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jonwilmust figure out how to uninstall all these KDE bits I dont need so emerge runs wont take so long :P14:01
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Palijonwil: use utf8 and dos2unix for files14:02
Palilooks like your zip file has CRLF and some other funny non unicode encoding14:03
jonwilwith the exception of dbus-names.h, all the files in my disk seem to be unix format14:04
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Palijonwil: but not in utf814:34
jonwilI dont know how to convert to UTF814:34
jonwilwhen I fix up the .h files and send you the final checked over versions you can convert them to UTF8 before you upload :)14:35
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Palijonwil: when I push changes to git I will convert them to utf8 :-)14:36
jonwilyeah when you put them on cssu-git14:36
jonwiland create source trees for those 4 packages on gitoroius :)14:37
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jon_yjonwil: is it in plain ASCII?14:43
jon_yif it is then you don't need to do anything14:43
jon_yascii maps into utf-8 unchanged14:43
jonwilit should be plain ascii, I dont know of any reason why it wouldn't be14:44
XATRIXHow can i paste a number into the dial frame ?14:47
XATRIXI mean, i have a contact, it has a long number14:47
XATRIXHow to insert it into the dialframe ?14:48
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Maceri need to figure out a way to automate this pan config14:51
Macerso it detects bnep0 connecting and routes properly14:52
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cyberthequeNokia-N900:/# /usr/bin/flasher --query-rd-mode --local16:58
cyberthequeflasher v2.8.2 (Jan  8 2010)16:58
cyberthequeUsing flashing protocol Mk II.16:58
cyberthequeFound device RX-51, hardware revision 210116:58
cyberthequeMethod is not supported in the current mode16:58
cyberthequeHow to enable 'update' mode from the shell?16:58
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Oooaaahi everyone Is there any mods for custom brightness17:08
OooaaaI mean to custimise n900 brightness according to our needs17:09
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cyberthequeI have not tried it but I was just reading the 'dbus-send' commands described in the 'phone control' section of the wiki hoping to find one that sets 'update' mode and found one for backlight brightness (level 0 to 255)17:18
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Oooaaavery helpful thanks anymore mods17:23
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psycho_oreoscybertheque, enable 'update' mode?17:54
psycho_oreosAhh looks like you are getting help in another channel.17:56
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SAiFhello everybody.18:10
SAiFI ve got a couple of questions,..18:14
SAiFwell.. not really questions, issues with my n900,18:14
SAiFfirst...  My memory gets read only at times.. and I dont know why.18:15
SAiFsecond.. some random pictures comes into album art on mp3 files. actually on two pictures set automatically as album art, even if I download a new mp3, sometimes this pictures set itself as album art of the newly downloaded mp3 files.18:19
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SAiFthird.. if a file name is very large and if I change the name to a smaller one, it wont change visually. it changes it position (sorting) on the list according to the starting letter of new name and it shows new name if we select the details of that file. But visually, there is no change.18:23
DocScrutinizer05oooaaa giving the dick today?18:23
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SAiFhi Doc,18:24
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psycho_oreos1) dmesg, may answer why it your memory would go into read only. Though not always.18:25
DocScrutinizer05on 1) I dunno what to say. except that r/o mode is triggered by fs-corruption as well as i/o errors18:25
DocScrutinizer052) check mussorsky18:25
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DocScrutinizer05there are metadata embedded pictures in .mp3 files, and tracker using those when present18:26
DocScrutinizer053) no idea - depends on your app you use to show/list the files18:26
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SAiF3) native app18:26
DocScrutinizer05which is?18:27
SAiFthe file browser18:27
DocScrutinizer05hmm, prolly a bug in filemanager (filebrowser) then18:27
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DocScrutinizer05if you can come up with a instruction how to reproduce the issue, you probably should open a ticket against Hildon File Manager on bugs.maemo.org18:28
SAiFI dont know how to reproduce any of those..can post screenshots If needed.18:29
SAiFOne more thing ..18:30
psycho_oreosYou'll probably need to host those images on some server that won't disallow hot-linking and/or have images subjected to deletion.18:30
SAiFIf I copy mp3 files from a memory card to phon memory, memory becomes readonly or phone switches off, and it will take time (abt 1 minute) to show up memory after restarting.18:32
SAiFpshycho_oreos.. like ?18:33
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psycho_oreosSAiF, probably photobucket for starters. Maybe those google drive might also help. Dropbox might also be another.18:34
SAiFI still didnt clearly understand 1 & 2 solution18:35
psycho_oreosYou probably will need to read up on the likes of wikipedia to get a good understanding of how filesystems work under linux. Particularly when mounted.18:36
psycho_oreosLearning CLI tools is also a big plus as well.18:36
SAiFWell, then I need to learn a lot18:38
psycho_oreosFile systems usually gets corrupted when its unmounted cleanly. i.e. when one deliberately powers off the device without letting the device run its normal course in shutting down.18:38
psycho_oreosNo better time than now.18:38
DocScrutinizer05phone hanging and eventually even rebooting due to watchdog kicking in, during copy of huge amount of data netween eMMC and uSD is a known issue. Allegedly can get solved by reducing swappiness and fiddling with nr_queue_entries (or whatever the name), see swappolube18:39
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DocScrutinizer05"wen it's NOT umounted cleanly..."18:39
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SAiFjust now i copied .mp3 file with the album art problem and that naming problem to another samsung phone, and it doesnt show any issue. It just shows the files new short name without any unwanted album art.18:42
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psycho_oreosIt's an issue with trackerd as DocScrutinizer05 pointed out earlier on. It has nothing to do with copying the exact same file to another phone/device that is not running maemo.18:44
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psycho_oreosIIRC, there was tracker-cfg (or trackerd-cfg) tool available in extras-devel (maybe extras-testing now) that allows one to configure trackerd behaviour. Not that it will be the magic bullet but may give one some insights.18:45
psycho_oreosParticularly its namely thumbnailerd that I think grabs images and dumps them into hildon-photos (or whatever its called).18:46
DocScrutinizer05oooh wait, you're talking about renaming .mp3 files? LOL, you get issues with tracker which basically ignores the filename and uses whatever it got in its database gathered from scanning .mp3 metadata. Just like for the album cover art embedded into .mp3 metatags18:47
DocScrutinizer05only HFM is using tracker to replace .mp3 real filenames by the meta-songname "filenames" it gets from trackerd18:48
psycho_oreosIDv3 tags I suppose is what they are called.18:48
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: use a decent filemanager, which is about every other filemanager than just HFM18:49
SAiFUltimately, I need to know whether the slow showing up of memory be a hardware issue? If its software, I can restore or reflash.18:49
SAiFyes I will get a good file manaegr.18:50
DocScrutinizer05fs corruption can be both hw and sw caused18:50
psycho_oreosIt's probably easier to tell if it's a hardware issue during flashing.18:50
DocScrutinizer05r/o is a result from fs-corruption. Delay on next boot is a result from fsck fixing corrupted fs18:50
DocScrutinizer05we've seen/heard several reports that suggest that trackerd (yes again trackerd!) might cause fs corruption when you shut down system while it still is about to index all the .mp318:52
SAiFit just have 10gb of data..  this changing to readonly makes downloading via cute tube, transmission etc, .. very diffucult. and  I use  these alot18:52
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DocScrutinizer05I suggest to neuter trackerd largely18:52
SAiFi dint get it^^^18:52
DocScrutinizer05configure trackerd so it won't re-index all the time18:53
psycho_oreosYou'll probably also need to read up on what is trackerd and what it does.18:53
SAiFpsycho_oreos , thats what I am gonna do.18:53
DocScrutinizer05trackerd is a brainfart, particularly the way it got abused in maemo18:53
psycho_oreosIn a nutshell, trackerd is responsible for searching and indexing all media files so that other hildon services (such as hildon-mediaplayer for instance) can look it up on the index.18:53
DocScrutinizer05and it kicks in every time you change *anything* on your eMMC18:55
DocScrutinizer05and re-indexes all the files it can find18:55
psycho_oreosIIRC trackerd runs at virtually every boot. If one installed something like cpumem-applet they could easily see CPU and/or I/O being high for a good while (depending on how big your media collection is).18:55
psycho_oreosYeah that too.18:55
SAiFgot conky18:55
DocScrutinizer05which hogs your CPU, your battery, and corrupts your fs when you happen to shut down device during those 20 minutes18:55
SAiFoops.. 20 minutes.. sometimes I have to reboot abt 5 times in 20 mins18:56
psycho_oreosconky isn't as useful (imo) than cpumem-applet. cpumem-applet appears as a little icon in your statusbar, conky needs its own window, etc.18:56
DocScrutinizer05then no wonder your fs corrupts18:56
DocScrutinizer05also conky is a cpu hog in itself18:57
psycho_oreosYou can also easily tell when trackerd is still running when you go into mediaplayer. You get that fancy banner telling you that its searching and indexing files, there's usually a countdown timer along with it.18:57
SAiFoops again18:57
DocScrutinizer05quite a bad one actually18:57
SAiFOkay, so I am gonna do a restore first, Then If things didnt turn out right. I may go for a reflash18:59
DocScrutinizer05psycho_oreos: yeah, and that countdown tends to claim "341 minutes to go..." for me18:59
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, haha mine was never accurate too, I can see sometimes the countdown seems to increment quite dramatically at times.18:59
DocScrutinizer05first and best guideline: get cpu load applet, don't switch down system when CPU busy19:00
psycho_oreosFastest way was to simply just wait for the device to finish running it's usual course in booting (usually a good 10 minutes for me) before I do something.19:00
DocScrutinizer05or simply "kill2 trackerd in tracker.cfg19:00
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: or simply "kill" trackerd in tracker.cfg19:01
DocScrutinizer05trackerd, DA SHITE19:01
SAiFI  hesitate to reflash mainly because, I could find the exact same packages I installed. Some times after reflash, I couldnot find the package or, some packages just wont work. etc..etc19:01
psycho_oreosAlso learning CLI would be beneficial. 'dmesg' is a nifty command to show you kernel messages (are usually spoken in plain English, or otherwise there's always google) when there's an issue, etc.19:02
SAiF*could not19:02
DocScrutinizer05a reflash won't probably fix your issues19:02
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DocScrutinizer05your issues are all caused by tracker indexing a huge collection of mp3 data, or by you copying that huge amount of data between eMMC and uSD19:02
psycho_oreoslol, if I kill trackerd (granted, no need to wait) I lose all that music in mediaplayer (well now I was mainly using openmediaplayer).19:03
SAiFabt 500 of them mp3ss19:03
DocScrutinizer05psycho_oreos: there's a plugin for mediaplayer that allows browsing *directory tree* instead of searching in trackerd db19:04
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, that's news to me. I guess I won't be able to play with toys like that until my N900(s) gets fixed).19:04
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: once trackerd finished indexing and you don't change anything in the whole maediafile storage (no new files, no renames, no deletes or moves) you won't have any of all that trouble anymore19:05
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: DocScrutinizer05, that's news to me. I guess I won't be able to play with toys like that until my N900(s) gets fixed.19:05
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SAiFCould this be anyway related to usbhost \mode or hen,, I installed these recently and had a lot of issues and had to uninstall those19:08
psycho_oreosDoubt it, though if you're using h-e-n and you weren't keeping an eye on your battery (hence letting your N900 go flat). Then it maybe partly attributed to h-e-n, but it's still user error at best.19:09
SAiFwell, I will take some days to try  things you guys suggested. and see if it makes  any difference..19:11
SAiF:) ;)19:11
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: hmm, but proper power off shouldn't cause corruption even when trackerd is working19:13
SAiFdmesg.. shows .. filesystem error (dev mmcblk0pl) fat_bmap_cluster: request beyond EOF (i_pos 360067079)19:14
psycho_oreosYeah, that's clearly to say that filesystem is unclean.19:15
dos1or are we talking here about forced poweroffs? (taking off battery, very long press on power button etc?)19:15
SAiFand that line repeats a 100times in dmesg19:15
SAiFrandom reboots caused by maemo while transferring huge data from sd card to phone memory19:17
SAiFdos1 ^^19:17
dos1watchdog ones?19:17
dos1then sure19:17
psycho_oreosThen it's likely some process is trying to request an invalid reference within the /dev/mmcblk0p1.19:17
dos1nvm then :)19:17
psycho_oreosYeah was just thinking about it, watchdog ones would likely be forced reboots.19:18
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SAiFbut even after clean boots it shows the same error.19:19
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SAiFSo how do I clean the filesystem and / or what am I supposed to do now.19:20
psycho_oreosAgain you need to read how filesystms and mount work. Once a filesystem is declared unclean, it will remain unclean until it is sorted out by fsck.19:20
SAiFfsck.. as in what the fsck or file system check?  lol.. I have only heard abt those things..19:21
SAiFI need a good article to start with.19:21
dos1fsck is a tool which checks and fixes file systems19:21
psycho_oreosYou can't clean /, though for eMMC/SD, fsck should be sufficient. If you're on windows, there's some disk checking tool (probably chkdsk) that will also do the job.19:22
SAiFWell then thats comparatively easy19:22
DocScrutinizer05dos1: *should* yeah19:22
psycho_oreosWell not from average user perspective, you can still probably fsck / and /home via BackupMenu.19:22
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SAiFwell i have backup menu.. installed. I will try from it.19:23
DocScrutinizer05dos1: a 'clean powerdown' includes a `sync` which, depending on size and state of buffers, may take way longer than the maemo system is willing to grant19:23
DocScrutinizer05dos1: in result the system shuts down hard during still flushing buffers, after the notorious "sleep 5" that is usually in any shutdown initscripts to allow tasks to quit gracefully19:24
psycho_oreosYou don't need to use backupmenu to clean / and /home. Besides, its probably not really recommended considering it sits on a NAND and with ubifs.19:25
dos1isn't sync blocking?19:25
DocScrutinizer05sync *is* blocking. the initscripts though are usually not19:25
dos1I've never seen initscript with timeout on sync19:26
dos1maybe on systemd it's different though :P19:26
dos1or upstart, I don't know them well enough19:26
psycho_oreosThat's why sysvinit are getting deprecated :). Besides we are talking about a butchered linux setup here.19:26
DocScrutinizer05lemme put it this way: after 60s the latest wd will tear down system hard, no matter how politely initscripts are waiting for sync to return19:27
dos1ok, that makes sense19:28
dos1always forgetting about those nasty watchdogs :P19:28
SAiFwell then I would better be using windows file system check utility.19:29
psycho_oreosI personally wouldn't say better, maemo is still linux. Though if you are stuck with windows on computer, then that may be better than running an outdated fsck on the device itself (using own fsck version).19:30
SAiFyeah then I have to go live on ubuntu.19:31
SAiFno issues19:32
psycho_oreosThe newer the fsck is (under linux) the better.19:32
SAiFby the way, a few days ago I installed usbhostmode (or what ever it is called) and I never let me connect to a pc as mass storage device. Does anyone else happened to notice that?19:34
SAiF*it never19:35
SAiFI dont intend to waste your precious time. see you later.19:37
psycho_oreosYou probably might have processes that were using eMMC/microSD at that time or your USB mode was set to host mode (or whatever it's called) as opposed to peripheral mode.19:37
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SAiFMe again.. now with an error from backup menu21:19
SAiFI tried to restore it to a system backup. It showed all went successfully. then I restarted, and now.. nothing. not even backup menu. not even boot looping. when i press power button It starts and shows nokia logo and off...21:21
DefiantSAiF: might be a stupid question, but battery is charged?21:22
SAiFnot fully, I have been using it till noon( now its midnight here). And IIRC battery was at abt 60% when I tried backupmenu21:24
Defiantshould have been enough I guess :(21:27
mashinaman public wifi even is much more reliable than my carrier?s excuse for  anetwork21:28
mashinagranted stuck on edge but it's not reliable at all21:28
mashinayou'd tihkn itd be a lot better, simple 2g, but its awful coverage wise21:29
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Sysaxedomg, people asking for capacitive touchscreen... What for?21:30
SAiFthere is no way i could find even to bring up backup menu.21:31
mashinaand shitty gestures21:31
mashinaand no precision21:31
mashinaalso do eestonians drink viru valge all the time21:31
SAiFmulti touch may be21:31
mashinaout of taps and breastmilk, viru valge 100% comes out, yes?21:31
mashina80% is reserved for finnish tourists21:32
mashinamy estonian friend says this is true21:33
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psycho_oreosProbably might be worth considering on reflashing.21:39
SAiFconsidering that there is no choice right?21:41
psycho_oreosUnless you have better ideas in mind.21:41
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SAiFI am expecting to get a call at 4 in the morning.. and I currently dont have a backup fone in my room. its 00:11 now.21:42
SAiFI'd better start now.21:42
psycho_oreosA serial console may explain why it won't boot properly. Though unless you are handy with electronics, such idea is completely out of reach.21:42
SAiFi just got only a couple of pcs in my room21:43
SAiFhow can I get at least some of my data?21:43
psycho_oreosEven with serial console, it's not a magic bullet.. it seems that serial console is mainly useful for seeing messages rather than trying to interact.21:43
SAiFcontacts are already backed up. not the latest backup, I am sure I will loose the last updated couple21:43
psycho_oreosI don't think there's any easy way to get the data out, not without opening your N900 and having all the right tools to extract the data out.21:44
psycho_oreosYou maybe able to forgo flashing vanilla (only flashing combined or fiasco) but only maybe.21:45
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SAiFthat coud be a possibility, But I am doing full flash. I am on win 7 64, i have to swich to 32 bit live cd21:46
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psycho_oreosThe last I read on the wiki, you can still flash on windows 64bit via lib32 compat (or whatever they call it).21:47
psycho_oreosIf you're going to do a full flash (including vanilla) do be aware that your eMMC will also be erased. Leaving you the only choice is to use file recovery tools.21:48
SAiFyeah I tried it last time, abt 3weeks ago, and was giving me troubles. (it used to work, but you cannot be sure) linux is smooth21:48
Sysaxedmashina: it is not true :D21:49
SAiFBut I still wonder what I did wrong with Backupmenu21:49
SysaxedSAiF: multi touch.. what for? I don't have multitouch on my pc, why would I need in on my phone?21:49
SAiFzoom in zoom out.21:50
psycho_oreosYou can still zoom in and zoom out without needing two fingers.21:50
SAiFyep. so why would some one need a capacitive touch?21:51
psycho_oreosSomeone also said capacitative touchscreen is technology of the 70s. Yet to me its ironic virtually all smartphones/tablets these days use capacitative touch screen, maybe because its cheaper than resistive? and/or because they all want to be like iP{od,ad,hone}?21:52
dos1capacitive is better21:53
psycho_oreosI should add, on the forum someone said that capacitative touchscreen technology is from 70s.21:53
dos1for dumbphones like iOS or Android based ones21:53
dos1for smartphones, resistive is the only way :P21:53
psycho_oreosThere was a thread with artists using MyPaint (on N900) to paint various stuff. Try comparing that with the likes of using a smartphone/tablet/device with capacitative touchscreen to paint the exact same detail.21:54
psycho_oreosYou can't even use a stylus on capacitative touchscreen, it won't even recognise.21:55
dos1multitouch is nice for games and maybe pinch to zoom, but that's it21:55
jogathere's styluses for capacitive touchscreen also21:55
joganot that it's going to be as accurate anyhow but still21:56
psycho_oreosYeah of a much different shape/material.21:56
psycho_oreosI was merely stating using say N900's stylus on <insert_some_android_device_here>21:56
jogamore like simulating a finger than a pen21:56
Sysaxeddos1: Nice for games, UNLESS you have keyboard21:56
Sysaxedalso I remember somebody who simulated multitouch on n90021:57
dos1Sysaxed: there are some touch based games that are pretty fun to play on multitouch devices21:57
Sysaxeddos1: like.. like.. uhhmmmm.. like what?21:57
dos1but yes, if I'd have to choose, having keyboard is definitely better than having multitouch21:58
Sysaxeddos1: probably I simply don't know21:58
dos1Sysaxed: minigames, angry birds style21:58
dos1I don't remember exact names, but there are some21:58
Sysaxedangry birds does not require touch screen, in fact there is angry birds for n90021:59
psycho_oreosThe more I think of people wanting capacitative touchscreens the more I'm reminded of those Apple ads where two fingers does virtually anything. Yay, so much for two fingers as opposed to one.21:59
dos1one example comes to mind - there's some game with cutting ropes to feed the frog21:59
dos1and sometimes you have to cut two or more ropes together using more fingers22:00
jogados1, how about a multitouch keyboard!22:00
joga( :)22:01
dos1anyway, I'm not a gamer type, I prefer phone with terminal but without games than one with games but without terminal :D22:01
joganethack works fine with terminal!22:01
dos1see, people wanting capacitive multitouch screen probably wouldn't see that as a big advantage22:02
dos1but we do :)22:02
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: you changed kernel from backup to restore?22:02
jogaseriously though regarding games, I think having some SNES/genesis emus and scummvm and whatnot on n900 is way superior to having a bunch of <30 year old game mechanics with upgraded graphics and in-app purchases> type of games which all feel the same22:02
psycho_oreosThey don't care, they just want this product to be the same as the rest of the smartphone/tablets.22:02
dos1joga: agreed22:03
SAiFDoc what?22:03
SAiFI just restored the system backup image created by backuomenu using backupmenu22:04
psycho_oreosSAiF, he meant in cases of where your backup was either newer or older prior to your kernel upgrades. You know for example when using kernel-power.22:04
SAiFI dont remember,22:04
SAiFBut I guess, there was no kernel update after the past backup22:05
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Sysaxedpsycho_oreos: nnooooooo!! We must defend! :D22:05
psycho_oreosIf say for example you made a backup that was using kernel-power v50 and then the last time you had it running was kernel-power v52. That is known as kernel modules mismatch. It usually causes boot loops.22:05
psycho_oreosSysaxed, unfortunately without much luck if the majority are largely ignorant mobs.22:05
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: then using rescueOS is your only chance to fix stuff now - ooooor reflash22:06
SAiFI got it. But do you know when was the last kernel power update thrugh ssu?22:06
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psycho_oreosThrough SSU? which SSU? CSSU? or nokia's SSU?22:07
DocScrutinizer05(smartphone, cts etc) a friend of mine (real tech noob) looked at my N900, frowned, asked me "don't you finally want to get a smartphone?"22:08
SAiFCSSU ofcourse22:08
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jonwilMy N900 can do things no iPhone will ever be able to do22:08
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jonwilthings most Android devices will probably never be able to do either22:09
jogaDocScrutinizer05, heh many have also looked at mine and said that "well you really look like you need a new phone". no thx :)22:09
jogajonwil *5*22:09
SAiFDoc only a very few of my friends actually know this phone exist, and those who know only know that you can put android (or better say change OS ) on this phone22:09
psycho_oreosCSSU doesn't really deliver kernel-power updates iinm. There were thumb kernels released but I really don't know how that works, they say its not part of CSSU-Thumb yet its in their repository. Now its merged in v52.22:09
Pali is down22:10
PaliDocScrutinizer05 ^^^^22:10
jonwilfinally my Gentoo box is close to being up-to-date so I can start playing with stuff again22:10
DocScrutinizer05Pali: not my domain (literally)22:10
DocScrutinizer05timeless: ^^^22:10
jonwilok, its all up-to-date22:11
psycho_oreosI have had my N900 being called "retro" tech.22:11
dos1the only smartphones I know - GTA01, GTA02, GTA04, N900, maybe also that Trolltech Qt phone22:11
SAiFand Neo900.22:11
dos1others are just modern dumbphones22:11
DocScrutinizer05timeless: please move mxr to infra when you don't want to keep it anymore22:11
dos1SAiF: Neo900 will be a smartphone when it'll finally exist :D22:12
DocScrutinizer05timeless: I guess we can find a VM for mxr on our server22:12
SAiFIt will exist. Ask Doc.22:12
SAiFIn near future.22:13
dos1SAiF: sure it will, but it doesn't right now22:13
dos1somewhere in 2014 probably22:13
dos1and rather late 201422:13
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DocScrutinizer05maybe just maybe even Q222:14
psycho_oreosThe sooner the people start donating towards Neo900 the likelihood (and possibly the quicker) the Neo900 will come out. Probably.22:14
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DocScrutinizer05Ipublished a tine table which got acknowledged by Nikolaus22:14
jonwilmain thing to do IMO would be to lock down the hardware specs of the Neo90022:14
DocScrutinizer05I published a time table which got acknowledged by Nikolaus22:14
jonwili.e. say "this is the full hardware that will be used"22:14
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: hw freeze will happen ~2013-11-01 (90%)22:15
jonwilwhat parts of the hw are still up in the air anyway?22:16
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: for now it's a safe bet to assume it will be somehwre between N900 and GTA0422:16
jonwilSoC is locked in, cellmo is locked in, WLAN/Bluetooth/FM are same as GTA04, sensors are same as GTA04, camera is same as N900, audio is same as N90022:17
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: quite a number of components are not evaluated yet. E.G. the eMMC+RAM combo22:17
jonwilhmmm ok makes sense22:17
DocScrutinizer05we need to check what exists and what's available. We also have to make sure our design meets N900 compatibility criteria22:18
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DocScrutinizer05e.g I just decided 3 days ago that we obviously need to go tvl320aic34 codec22:19
jonwilyeah good point22:19
jonwilyes obviously we need to copy N900 audio parts 100%22:19
DocScrutinizer05no feedback from Nikolaus on that point yet22:19
jonwilincluding N900 speakers and microphone22:19
DocScrutinizer05in my book, it's feasible, but I can't say anything without confirmation from Nikolaus22:20
DocScrutinizer05we might see problems with available IFs on SoC22:20
DocScrutinizer05since our peripherals on Neo900 differ from those on N900, thus maybe IFs are already occupied and thus a certain concept isn't feasible22:21
DocScrutinizer05it's always a funny juggling with the IFs available at all on SoC22:22
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DocScrutinizer05like "use camera IF and you lose IF for 2nd SD card slot" or stuff like that22:22
DocScrutinizer05each tiny change in peripherals that need direct IF to SoC might change the whole design22:23
DocScrutinizer05we try to avoid such mega-changes22:23
jonwilbtw I am guessing that Neo900 cant nave newer wifi standards like 802.11n/802.11ac or newer bluetooth standards like Bluetooth Low Energy because no SoC that supports those standards is open enough and available enough?22:23
DocScrutinizer05since, the more we change, the more prototypes we will need to evaluate the design and kick out bugs22:24
Sysaxedomg, apple selling thousands of their devices while we can barely reach 200... I don't want to live on that planet22:24
DocScrutinizer05it's not the SoC but the module, otherwise exactly to the point22:24
DocScrutinizer05finding a good open WiFi module is already a PITA22:25
DocScrutinizer05finding one with a good interface that integrates into your design is already almost impossible22:25
DocScrutinizer05finding one that has bleeding edge RF technology support is impossible22:26
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DocScrutinizer05it always been the WiFi that gave EE headaches, from GTA02 to GTA03 to GTA04 to Neo90022:27
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DocScrutinizer05kick out WiFi and your EE live becomes extremely easy22:28
jonwilSeems like (thanks to Option) its easier to find good usable open-enough cellular module (even with LTE) than it is to find usable open-enough WiFi chip22:28
jonwilEven well-known (and much bigger) projects like OLPC had BIG problems finding WiFi chip that they could get22:28
DocScrutinizer05I'm not all happy with Option either, yet, thanks to - again - the interface22:29
DocScrutinizer05and that's the most mission critical thing in hw design of Neo900 right now22:30
DocScrutinizer05the USB interface GTA04 uses needs further evaluation/verification22:30
DocScrutinizer05jury still out on it, regarding power usage and thus standby22:30
DocScrutinizer05this might kill GTA04 and Neo900 likewise22:31
DocScrutinizer05a few weekends with Nikolaus ahead of me I see (says Joda)22:32
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