IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-08-31

xes	freemangordon: ping	00:06
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xes	compiling a package (gnuradio) that requires boost, with linaro gcc 4.7 i'm hanged in the same bug described here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=812728	00:08
povbot	Bug 812728: was not found.	00:08
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lexik	hi.. today ive tryed to repair my n900's broken usb.. failed :) its too tiny, tommorow im going to try another way.... but.... hell it is tiny :D	00:42
lexik	and my solder is probably too big	00:43
Win7Mac	your iron ;9...	00:44
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lexik	emm... yes :P	00:45
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DocScrutinizer05	you need a max 30W (or better electronically regulated) soldering iron with a pinpoint tip specially designed to solder SMT stuff	01:05
xes	DocScrutinizer05: do you think we could organize a team to repair broken N900?	01:07
RiD	speaking of broken n900s	01:08
RiD	this one i recently got does not always detect when the usb is plugged in... hopefully when i solder it it'll be good	01:08
DocScrutinizer05	and you should use proper strictly electronic activated resin flux, like http://uk.farnell.com/bonkote/bon102/flux-pen-7ml/dp/500896	01:09
RiD	i don't need another n900 without a working usb	01:09
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DocScrutinizer05	not "recognizing" USB often happens due to some race condition somewhere in maemo system, either kernel or dbus or whatever	01:10
RiD	it kinda seemed the usb fault, it was loosy already	01:10
RiD	either way i'm not plugging in anything until it gets soldered	01:10
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DocScrutinizer05	if it isn't showing a behaviour of suddenly recognizing chager when you gently touch the USB plug, but reliably detects on replugging the plug, then you got no hw problem but usual software glitch	01:11
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RiD	idk, i'll just wait	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	nothing bad with soldering down the USB to reinforce it. But don't touch the 5 electrical connectors if you're not sure it's needed	01:12
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RiD	i'm not gonna touch them... unless something goes seriously wrong	01:13
iluminator105	where can i order a n900 strip	01:13
lexik	DocScrutinizer05: thanx! i will try to buy similar soldering iron	01:13
lexik	can high temperature destroy the n900 pcb?...	01:14
iluminator105	where can i order a n900 strip?	01:15
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DocScrutinizer05	xes: I don't know how to organize such team	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	lexik: sure	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	iluminator105: strip?	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	I guess you don't ask for a striptease?	01:26
iluminator105	DocScrutinizer05, strip meaning when you move the keyboard connect keyboard to the motherboard	01:26
lexik	Maemo, hmm SoGood	01:26
lexik	striptease? you mean dissassembly	01:27
DocScrutinizer05	iluminator105: sore, can't parse	01:27
DocScrutinizer05	sorry*	01:27
xes	read "ribbon cable"	01:27
DocScrutinizer05	oooh, a flexible board connector	01:28
xes	(i suppose)	01:28
iluminator105	is that what its called it connects the keyboard section with the other sectioin	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	yes, the flexible board (or somesuch term) aka ribbon flex connector is the component that connects N900's two hlafs	01:29
xes	this? http://www.ebay.it/itm/New-Ribbon-Flex-Cable-with-Camera-for-Nokia-N900-with-Tracking-number-/290736587540?pt=US_Cell_Phone_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item43b1404314	01:30
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DocScrutinizer05	http://www.ebay.com/itm/290704781415?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	yep, ribbon flex cable	01:32
xes	sometimes the most difficult part is search with the right terms	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	01:33
xes	spare parts for the N900 are slowly disappearing in the latest months	01:34
xes	..while the market of used n900 is filled with damaged phone	01:34
DocScrutinizer05	:nod: that's why we need to speed up with Neo900	01:34
DocScrutinizer05	a few specialized parts are already not available anymore, and even keymats get rare	01:35
DocScrutinizer05	I wonder if council should start a project to stash spare parts	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	but in the end that would be too expensive and dead capital	01:37
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xes	a little internal store for spare parts with someone that could repair the phone would be a great survival insurance and service... Sure, i agree with the dead capital :-(	01:39
xes	i'm building gnuradio 3.7.1.... Zzzz ...so slow...	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	took like 2h+ for me	01:40
xes	with scratchbox?	01:40
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xes	i have issues with linaro gcc 4.7.2... It can't compile the sources depending on libboost. It seems a known bug of 4.7. Now i'm trying with gcc 4.2.	01:43
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iluminator105	i have problem with my other laptop it boots to grub and is stuck at grub	01:46
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RiD	iluminator105 does your laptop run maemo? :D	01:47
lexik	offtopic. >> #grub	01:47
lexik	does your n900 use grub instead of uboot? :D	01:48
iluminator105	n900 uses the default but its broken	01:48
lexik	what is broken? maemo is not booting?	01:50
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iluminator105	ribbon flex cable	01:51
lexik	eeh..	01:52
RiD	fix it? :P	01:52
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xes	ths could be interesting to order some spare part: http://www.thenokiaparts.com/eng/tuotteet/N900-spare-parts	02:02
RiD	hmm	02:02
RiD	according to that site i got 100€ worth of random stuff	02:02
RiD	but i am tempted by the english keymat :\	02:03
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xes	they have some part that "china market" don't offer	02:04
RiD	screws, lol	02:06
DocScrutinizer05	xes: which ones? most of thenokiaparts.com is out of stock anyway	02:08
xes	umpf :-(	02:09
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DocScrutinizer05	RiD: english keymat? where?	02:17
RiD	thenokiaparts it seems	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	you're sure it's available?	02:17
RiD	no idea if its in stock	02:17
RiD	i dont even know how to add stuff to the shopping cart lol	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	all out-of-stock items have same cryptic writing	02:18
RiD	so everything is out of stock? lol	02:18
RiD	ok actually not laughing	02:18
RiD	more like crying	02:18
DocScrutinizer05	seems I don't find anything I could order	02:20
RiD	sad	02:20
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DocScrutinizer05	nfc, anyway check http://www.thenokiaparts.com/eng/product_search.php	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	search for anything	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/31/plasma-desktopzR3743.png	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	allegedly the screws for 4.00 are not "out of stock" but still I don't see how to order them	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	iirc thenokiaparts.com refused to sell to non-commercial customers	02:27
DocScrutinizer05	AAAH! http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900?page=1	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	"Ei varastossa."	02:29
RiD	:(	02:30
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DocScrutinizer05	http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900/n900-av-connector-5469246- vs http://mobile-parts.com.gr/en/iieea/nokia-n86-conn-a-v-3-5mm-compress-short-original.html	02:32
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xes	klc is nokia parts (change the language with the flag)	02:34
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: btw, DSS supports HDMI ootb, maybe "you" should think about that fancy connector that integrates USB and HDMI	02:34
DocScrutinizer05	you need to be smart (well a tiny bit) to find spare parts	02:34
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: it's not only the connector, we also would need the HDMI converter gear	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	but yeah, might be worth it	02:35
freemangordon	hmm? sorry, elaborate on the "gar" part	02:35
freemangordon	*gear	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	prolly the converter/driver chip is small and simple and cheap	02:36
SpeedEvil	It is - fairly	02:36
freemangordon	oh, you mean there should be some multiplexer?	02:36
SpeedEvil	freemangordon: MHL/slimport are basically over the USB connector serialised (more) hdMI	02:36
DocScrutinizer05	no, I mean ther should be some pin labeled "HDMI", SoC doesn't have	02:36
LjL-Alps	MMHL?	02:36
LjL-Alps	-M	02:36
SpeedEvil	ah	02:37
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: omap dss supports hdme. ofc I have NFC how is the phisical iface implemented.	02:37
freemangordon	*physical	02:37
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DocScrutinizer05	that's the point. You probably need a driver chip	02:38
freemangordon	I see	02:38
LjL-Alps	just when you thought MHL could have been a nice universal interface to connecting phones to screens, Samsung >S2 has a different cable (even though it still calls it "MHL"), and Nexus 4 uses something else called "MyDP"	02:38
* freemangordon is searching for MHL		02:38
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DocScrutinizer05	I think omap SoC supports AV rather without any external parts, just a resistor and a bead and capacitor, For HDMI though I think you need more than that	02:39
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: iirc HDMI is supported by the Soc without any extenal part. Maybe checking how it is done in BB will give us some idea	02:40
freemangordon	parts even	02:40
DocScrutinizer05	I looked into that for GTA03 S2440 or whatever the SoC	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: sure. I admit I have no link to BB schematics	02:41
xes	ohh...i want a good old DB25 connector...something easy to solder and that we could use just like a docking station socket...... ;-) remaining pins could stay unused for future purposes...	02:41
xes	:-)	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	and I'm simply too lazy to open and search the 3800pp OMAP TRM	02:42
freemangordon	xes: DB25 for RS232? :P	02:42
xes	yep... good old sockets	02:42
DocScrutinizer05	Centronics	02:43
freemangordon	yeah :)	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	or rather: SCSII	02:43
freemangordon	you guys are old :D	02:43
xes	so every human can solder that f** pins	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	dman, those were awesome connectors, with I think 100 pins	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	and a proper steel case	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	and true locks	02:45
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: scsi? afaik some modern variant is still on the field	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	very convenient, just the cables were awkward	02:45
freemangordon	though... you know... SAS	02:45
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xes	but the car holder would be so easy...	02:45
xes	have you tried to plug the micro usb while driving in the middle of traffic??	02:47
freemangordon	xes: why should I? when I could do it before I start driving ;)	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scsi-connectors.jpg	02:48
xes	bah.. ok end of caos, please go ahead with technical serious points	02:48
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xes	uops .. freemangordon: have you read my comments about linaro? News about the 4.8 version?	02:49
LjL-Alps	i have a car holder for my Android phone, but it has no provision for easy plugging in of USB	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	CN-50, so only 50 pins :-(	02:49
LjL-Alps	although it's pretty nifty as the phone just neatly clicks in and out of it	02:50
DocScrutinizer05	aaah I knew it - DEC: 68 pins	02:50
freemangordon	xes: hmm, I read the post but obviously have missed that there are news. Going to reread it :)	02:50
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: is everything ok with warfare? I was changing the ISP these days, so I could've missed something.	02:51
DocScrutinizer05	I dunno, he's rather quite since his outtime	02:51
xes	https://launchpad.net/linaro-toolchain/+announcements	02:52
freemangordon	hmm.	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	xes: (2h) for x86, no scratchbox	02:52
freemangordon	xes: are there any cortex-a8 improvements? as all I have seen for the last year was a15 support/fixes	02:53
freemangordon	xes: And I still don;t know how to build a toolchain for SB :(	02:53
xes	who built the latest?	02:54
freemangordon	zeq	02:54
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1370626#post1370626	02:55
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: saw it, will take a look ASAP, I wa busy with the supl shit	02:55
* DocScrutinizer05 despises bug reports ending up in that thread		02:56
freemangordon	*was	02:56
freemangordon	though I am prety suspicious about the bug reports by that guy :)	02:56
freemangordon	he is too much of a hacker	02:57
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: in that regard - did anyone contact the ex-nokian ex-debmaster guy?	02:58
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: I don't know	03:28
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Mike11	hey people :)	03:30
Mike11	I have a Nokia n900 phone, I am trying to compile a simple hello world c program	03:30
Mike11	I intalled gcc-4.6 package using "apt-get install gcc-4.6"	03:30
Mike11	but whenver I try to compile, it says:	03:30
DocScrutinizer05	out of memory	03:31
Mike11	gcc-4.6: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory	03:31
DocScrutinizer05	you're not supposed to install gcc and related binutils and libs needed to form a working build environment, on N900 rootfs	03:32
Mike11	where should I intall that??	03:32
Mike11	install*	03:32
Mike11	I used apt-get	03:32
DocScrutinizer05	basically development on target platform isn't supported. some hackers achieved to do it nevertheless, but they usually use a chroot to some more beefy location on device	03:33
DocScrutinizer05	check out easidebian	03:33
DocScrutinizer05	easy* even	03:34
Mike11	then what is the gcc-4.6 I installed for??	03:34
Mike11	I thought it was for on-device development!	03:34
DocScrutinizer05	the recommended way to develop for maemo is on PC in a scratchbox environment	03:34
Mike11	thanks DocScrutinizer05:	03:35
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RiD	isn't this the weirdo ^	03:35
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5	03:35
ShadowJK	build?dash?essential?	03:36
Mike11	does easydebian come with a compiler??	03:36
DocScrutinizer05	ooops	03:36
Mike11	sorry, I am new to n900 :(	03:36
DocScrutinizer05	damn, that's some nice mess on maemo.org	03:37
DocScrutinizer05	http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ is more like it but it links to nokia.com	03:37
Mike11	DocScrutinizer05: I am wondering what the gcc-4.6 package is for??!?!	03:39
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide here you are	03:39
DocScrutinizer05	somebody seriously should clean up that stuff, even I - while knowing what I looked for - wasn't able to find my way	03:40
Mike11	do u recommend maemo sdk on the link on nokia.com??	03:41
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DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK	03:44
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation	03:45
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DocScrutinizer05	Mike11: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK#Writing_GUI_Hello_World	03:46
Mike11	DocScrutinizer05: thanks for your help :), that link is really helpful :)	03:47
Mike11	DocScrutinizer05: Just Missing what the gcc-4.6 package I installed use for??	03:48
Mike11	DocScrutinizer05: If it can't compile, then what is it used for!!	03:48
DocScrutinizer05	you for sure can compile, you just need to know _how_	03:49
Mike11	I read that I have to configure gcc to the directory 'as' is located in	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	I'd rather wonder what for we got an asterisk package. I wouldn't think it's really reasonable idea to run a VoIP server on the N900	03:50
Mike11	'as' is the assembler that gcc uses	03:50
Mike11	as I could understand	03:51
DocScrutinizer05	yes	03:51
Mike11	they suggested using "whereis" linux command to look for 'as'	03:51
Mike11	but whereis isn't available on n900	03:51
Mike11	so how can I locate 'as'??!	03:52
Mike11	lol haven't seen the asterisk package before, haha :)	03:52
DocScrutinizer05	you probably shouldn't consider running gcc on N900 until you made more familiar with maemo, maemo SDK, and linux in general	03:53
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Mike11	Ok, thanks for your help DocScrutinizer05: I will work on that :)	03:54
DocScrutinizer05	yw	03:54
DocScrutinizer05	also check out "madde", I don't know if it works, but...	03:55
DocScrutinizer05	if it works then maybe it's more convenient for maemo beginners than scratchbox	03:55
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Macer	hm	07:21
Macer	is there some sort of problem with the omweather auto updating?	07:21
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discopig	hi	07:37
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: the more I think, the more I am convinced that Neo900 should use the main camera from N900. The reason being the SW part - I am almost sure we won;t be able to be on par with Nokia image processing algos. Or at least I don;t see who can make that happen in the community	14:28
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qwazix	freemangordon, mean swapping the cameras with old cameras from discarded N900's? maybe the camera is the same part as the N95? That could provide more stock	14:46
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qwazix	freemangordon, DocScrutinizer05 http://www.pds.com.gr/index.asp?mod=eshop_item&ID=51&p=10315	14:49
qwazix	it's out of stock but look at how many phones had this same camera, should be easy to find them	14:50
qwazix	also http://www.mytrendyphone.com/shop/original-nokia-n82-8230p.html	14:52
qwazix	this one claims to have it in stock	14:52
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freemangordon	qwazix: no matter if using old or new, I am really concerned about the quality of images/videos if neo900 is using a different module	14:56
LjL-Alps_	freemangordon, isn't FCam a full replacement for the N900 camera stack? or only part of it?	14:57
qwazix	:nod:	14:57
qwazix	this also: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Nokia-N95-Camera-5-Megapixel-Flex-Cable-UK-/290698886117?pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item43af00fbe5	14:57
qwazix	I remember the N900 camera sitting directly on the board without flex cable, but the connectors might well be behind that alu part...	14:58
freemangordon	LjL-Alps_: we have a closed daemon, omapcamd (or something) which does all the image processing	14:58
freemangordon	afaik	14:58
freemangordon	NFC if fcam drivers replace that	14:59
LjL-Alps_	i don't really know either, but in the About it says "a fully open source camera implementation"	14:59
freemangordon	could be	14:59
freemangordon	but is is still made for n900 camera	15:00
freemangordon	*it is	15:00
LjL-Alps_	well sure, but it shows they could make a respectable open source implementation, even with HDR and stuff	15:00
freemangordon	"could" is not the same as "will"	15:01
LjL-Alps_	well, i'd personally rather have something fully open that i know i could try improving myself, or that there's no hindrances to improving anyway, over something "working" but that can't be touched... but i guess that's just a small part of the main issue i'd have with the Neo900	15:02
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: (sw img algos) absolutely	15:18
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* RST38h moos		15:20
DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: yeah, 60EUR :-S	15:20
DocScrutinizer05	I think I've seen it for ~50EUR too. But that will add almost 100EUR to the end price	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	since we also need the socket	15:23
qwazix	I found much cheaper N95 camera modules, I just posted that as a reference to a claim that N95camera == N900 camera	15:24
qwazix	for example this -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kamera-Camera-Cam-Modul-Kameramodul-Linse-Lens-fur-Nokia-N95-N82-N95-8GB-/170776642949?pt=DE_Handy_Organizer_Ersatzteile_Werkzeuge&hash=item27c314c585	15:25
RST38h	Doc: Anything new and exciting?	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	back spine hurts	15:26
qwazix	doesn't sound exciting :P	15:26
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DocScrutinizer05	3% storage in repo VM	15:28
DocScrutinizer05	200 votes on	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142	15:29
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: hmm? echan?	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	not really, RST38h asked for new stuff that excites me	15:29
qwazix	or even http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camera-Part-For-NOKIA-N95-Replacement-/280966345953?pt=US_Cell_Phone_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item416ae634e1	15:30
qwazix	and I stop spamming the channel	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	nah, welcome	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	it's obviously compatible to N95 etc pp according to your 1st post	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	now THAT is good news	15:31
qwazix	except if that site has it all wrong, which I doubt	15:31
qwazix	as all specs are the same, sample pics look exactly the same and size is about the same (IIRC)	15:31
qwazix	the only difference is the flex cable, which we might be able to just remove	15:32
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RST38h	Doc: You do recognize that it is a futile affair?	15:43
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RST38h	Also, 600 euros for an OMAP3 motherboard with 512MB RAM?	15:46
RST38h	May I suggest a shiny brand new Samsung instead? =)	15:46
jon_y	truth, it is more than my monthly pay	15:46
dos1	RST38h: and then 1600 euros? ;]	15:47
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RST38h	dos1: 1600e for what?	15:51
dos1	RST38h: for a Neo900 with shiny brand new Samsung chipsets	15:52
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RST38h	dos1: You can write "Neo900" on the back of that Samsung Galaxy with a market, if you like so	16:09
RST38h	s/market/marker/	16:10
infobot	RST38h meant: dos1: You can write "Neo900" on the back of that Samsung Galaxy with a marker, if you like so	16:10
dos1	RST38h: so you think Samsung Galaxy is an open platform?	16:10
RST38h	And run Ubuntu Mobile or Firefox OS or whatever	16:10
RST38h	dos1: It is open enough for people to release their own firmware for it	16:10
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dos1	can I see schematics? can I replace bootloader? can I request additional contact pads from Samsung to make my awesome hardware mod easier?	16:11
dos1	RST38h: yeah, "own firmware". On top of Android.	16:12
RST38h	dunno about schematics (but suspect that you will find them in the Exynos datasheet), but yes, you can apparently replace the bootloader	16:13
RST38h	I think you can also request additional GPIO bits from Samsung, as long as you buy 100000-20000 SoC chips from them	16:13
RST38h	Pretty much the same applied to TI when you buy OMAP3 (used in Neo900)	16:14
* RST38h starts suspecting the "open platform" thing is some kind of fetish defined differently by different people		16:15
LjL-Alps	how do you find the N900's earphones?	16:15
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dos1	RST38h: open platform is something where I don't have to break any security in order to do what I want	16:16
dos1	where you can't loose your warrianty for just playing with software	16:17
LjL-Alps	RST38h: just because there is currently no open platform phone, doesn't mean it's so hard to define	16:17
dos1	where "jailbreaking" does not exist	16:17
LjL-Alps	and where the firmware blobs come with source	16:17
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dos1	and as far as Linux is concerned, where sane kernel is provided	16:18
dos1	LjL-Alps: I'm a bit more liberal on firmware blobs, as soon as they don't run on main AP and chips that they run on don't have access to main RAM	16:18
LjL-Alps	warranty aside, though i think some Samsung Galaxies are about as open as the N900...	16:18
LjL-Alps	dos1: even then, if the firmware blob isn't even redistributable, that's a problem	16:19
dos1	LjL-Alps: oh, yeah, of course redistribution rights is crucial	16:19
dos1	s/is/are/	16:19
infobot	dos1 meant: LjL-Alps: oh, yeah, of course redaretribution rights is crucial	16:19
dos1	hah :D	16:19
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RST38h	LjL: I can define anything, including flying kittens	16:20
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RST38h	LjL: Not everything I define will exist in practice	16:20
dos1	does Galaxy phones use Qualcomm modems?	16:20
RST38h	dos1: Some do, not all though	16:20
LjL-Alps	dos1: the latest (S4) maybe, but the ones i'm looking at are the Galaxy Nexus, the Galaxy S2 and Galaxy S3; the former uses OMAP4, the latter two use Exynos 4	16:21
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LjL-Alps	dos1: they're three phones supported by http://replicant.us/ so you can have a look at their wiki about how open they are/aren't	16:21
RiD	dos1 infobot failed	16:24
RiD	redaretribution	16:24
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dos1	RST38h: GTA02 is completely open platform, I'd like other phones to be on this level	16:27
dos1	GTA04 has non-free firmware for WiFi, but I can live with that	16:27
LjL-Alps	dos1: you can even run an OsmocomBB baseband on GTA02, can't you?	16:27
LjL-Alps	(not sure how legally)	16:27
dos1	LjL-Alps: yup (technically, doing it legally is completely different story :P)	16:28
dos1	if you have your own lab with BTSes and you'll use OsmocomBB to connect only to your own network, then you're fine	16:29
dos1	but I think you'd still need permission to set up such lab :P	16:29
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XATRIX	Hi guys, i've got troubles during update	16:29
XATRIX	There's a midnight commander update, my handset wants to install to	16:30
LjL-Alps	dos1: i recently learned that WiMax would have been much opener than LTE :(	16:30
RST38h	dos1: GTA02 is based on an OMAP chip from TI. Good luck changing any part of its design :)	16:32
RST38h	dos1: Moreover, that OMAP chip contains PowerVR IP from Imagetech. Try getting documentation on that IP :)	16:33
RST38h	dos1: So, every time you say "completely open platform" to someone, do carefully check how much that person knows.	16:33
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dos1	RST38h: uhm... noone is talking about changing design of SoC itself	16:37
RST38h	Dind't someone ask for new contact pads just now?	16:37
dos1	RST38h: GTA02 is based on Samsung S3C2442	16:37
RST38h	And not having any information on PowerVR basically prohbitsyou from having any open sourced 3D driver	16:38
RST38h	dos1: And that obviously makes it more open?:)	16:38
dos1	RST38h: not "more open", but it is open	16:39
LjL-Alps	the 3D driver thing is annoyin	16:39
LjL-Alps	g	16:39
dos1	developing free CPU design is definitely out of Openmoko/OpenPhoenux/Neo900 scope	16:40
dos1	but using CPU that's free to use in any way you like is requirement for those projects	16:40
LjL-Alps	should use FPGA :P	16:40
XATRIX	DocScrutinizer05: Hi, i've got some problem, can you assist ? If i run apt-get upgrade, it says i have several packages to upgrade http://fpaste.org/36237/56340137/ (yea yea, i'm not going to run apt-get) , if i run Hildon app manager it says i need to upgrade only 'mc'	16:40
dos1	closed GPU may be there, as long as you're not required to use closed drivers just to be able to use the phone	16:41
dos1	GTA04 works perfectly fine without acceleration	16:41
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: apt-get upgrade is DEPRECATED	16:41
LjL-Alps	yeah but modern OS's do kind of all use acceleration	16:42
XATRIX	Ok	16:42
DocScrutinizer05	and that's exactly why	16:42
dos1	LjL-Alps: enlightenment works well without it, and when configured properly can provide pretty nice user experience	16:43
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dos1	LjL-Alps: but yes, for running Fremantle you'll need closed GPU driver, just like on N900	16:43
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LjL-Alps	dos1: well, for Mali400, there is an open GPU driver in development... which i understand already does some real 3D stuff	16:44
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dos1	LjL-Alps: then it might be good to think about using it for next project	16:45
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dos1	but I'm not good person to discuss this kind of stuff :) I barely know anything about all those chipsets	16:48
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XATRIX	DocScrutinizer05: i tried to upgrade my 'mc' using FAM and got the following in it's log http://www.fpaste.org/36238/77957008/	16:50
DocScrutinizer05	I won't check fapman logs	16:51
DocScrutinizer05	fapman is... you guessed it	16:51
DocScrutinizer05	deprecated	16:52
XATRIX	Yeap	16:53
XATRIX	how shoud i paste HAM logs ?	16:53
XATRIX	where can i get it ?	16:53
XATRIX	HAM says the same crap, it can't install upgrade for	16:53
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qwazix	XATRIX, there's log in HAM too, check the menu	17:07
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DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: we need logs, then we check if sth is wronf with repo. Might be some dependency missing (e.g. known problem with BM)	17:39
XATRIX	I'm trying	17:39
XATRIX	where the log files for HAM are ?	17:40
freemangordon	XATRIX: mc was missing a dependency	17:40
XATRIX	yeap	17:40
XATRIX	slang	17:40
freemangordon	libslang2	17:40
freemangordon	it is (should be) in the repo now	17:40
freemangordon	XATRIX: try to install it now, don;t forget to refresh first	17:41
XATRIX	k	17:41
freemangordon	Pali: you didn;t vote for KP :P	17:46
Pali	still missing more then 1 vote :-)	17:46
Pali	and all KP packages must be promoted at same time	17:46
freemangordon	noone wants to vote for KP ?!?	17:46
freemangordon	Pali: promotion does't wotk like that ;)	17:47
freemangordon	*work	17:47
Pali	wait, I will vote :-)	17:47
freemangordon	when you promote a package, all the dependencies are auto-promoted too	17:47
freemangordon	or was it all the packages with the same source	17:48
freemangordon	or both	17:48
freemangordon	Pali: if noone is interested in KP, I guess we can just stop maintainig it :P	17:49
Pali	so far only flasher has enough votes	17:50
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freemangordon	now bootimg has too	17:50
Pali	ok	17:50
freemangordon	hmm, I am not a maintainer of bootimg? O.o	17:50
Pali	modules 4 votes missing and kernel-power only one	17:51
freemangordon	Pali: those will get auto-promoted to extras if you promote bootimg	17:51
freemangordon	as it depends on them	17:51
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Pali	so, I can try to promote bootimg now?	17:51
freemangordon	yep	17:52
freemangordon	it depends on kernel-power-modules, which depends on kernel-power	17:52
Pali	package bootimg promoted	17:52
Pali	so we will see what happen :-)	17:52
freemangordon	int about 20-30 minutes	17:52
freemangordon	*in	17:53
freemangordon	Pali: any hint how to debug the problem I have with my BT HF and device volume?	17:55
Pali	which problem?	17:55
freemangordon	avary time I have a phone call, the volume drops to 0. Not HF volume, but device volume	17:55
freemangordon	*every	17:56
freemangordon	I told you about that a couple of months ago	17:56
Pali	can you try if this problem is also on clean PR1.3.1 (without CSSU?)	17:56
freemangordon	Pali: I reverted the policy package to stock, didn;t help	17:57
Pali	now I see similar problem (do not know if is is PA/maemo or device) that volume is at min	17:57
freemangordon	exactly	17:57
Pali	and I need to up	17:57
freemangordon	yep	17:57
Pali	but only sometimes...	17:57
freemangordon	yep	17:57
freemangordon	this is my problem :)	17:57
Pali	also in HFP mode (where is MIC support), volume is shared via bluetooth and device can mute or change pulseaudio/alsa volume	17:58
Pali	in A2DP mode (without microphone), device has own volume level and n900 pa/alsa own	17:59
freemangordon	hmm, can't we disable that?	17:59
freemangordon	HF controling n900 volume that is	18:00
Pali	and now when I using my headset also with notebook, maybe notebook can mute it and when I connect it again to n900 it share volume and show muted	18:00
Pali	"sharing" this volume level is by HFP profile design...	18:00
freemangordon	Pali: maybe my HF mutes n900 on incomming call, but doesn;t unmute it back after call ended	18:00
Pali	and I looked into PA it is not easy to remove it (or insert another volume filter)	18:01
freemangordon	or we have a bug preventing unmutting to happen	18:01
Pali	n900/pa/policy somehow switching between A2DP and HFP modes based on active call	18:01
Pali	and both modes has own volume level settings	18:01
Pali	plus there are tons of PA/alsa/dres/policy/prolog code	18:02
Pali	and it is impossible to detect where can be problem...	18:02
freemangordon	Pali: oh, nothing is impossible, just give me some hint how to turn some logs on	18:03
freemangordon	this bug drives me mad	18:03
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Pali	freemangordon: you can try: use headset only with n900 and set correct volume level on headset and also in hildon status menu	18:03
Pali	in both silent/normal profiles	18:03
Pali	and also when call is active/inactive	18:03
Pali	and do it in all possible combination	18:03
freemangordon	hmm	18:03
freemangordon	ok, will try	18:04
Pali	I think that I solved my problem (maybe!) with above	18:04
Pali	I will see that happen in next call :-)	18:04
Pali	at least I saw that switching between normal and silent profile mute sound output when headset was connected and reconnected...	18:05
freemangordon	yeah, the same happened here	18:06
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freemangordon	but it happens the same in normal profile :(	18:06
freemangordon	volume is set to min on every connect/disconnect	18:07
XATRIX	freemangordon: updated catalogs, and tried to update 'mc' again	18:07
XATRIX	but still no go	18:07
Pali	I think that there can be problem in bluez which can send some funny commands (or receive from) bluetooth device	18:08
Pali	and maybe new version of bluez has better support for these funny...	18:08
freemangordon	XATRIX: http://pastebin.com/qbhPU7eS	18:09
xes	Pali: while playing with the sdr i tried many times the usbmode switch applet... but i have to say that most of times it doesn't work remaining "in progress" forever	18:09
XATRIX	Doc told me not to use apt-get	18:10
freemangordon	Pali: do you remember how to turn bluez logging on?	18:10
Pali	no :-(	18:10
freemangordon	XATRIX: I am not saying you should use apt-get	18:10
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freemangordon	the point is that it installs just fine, make sure you did a "refresh"	18:10
freemangordon	Pali: http://pastebin.com/VidTfbsK	18:15
freemangordon	Aug 31 18:14:57 Nokia-N900 pulseaudio[992]: module-rescue-streams.c: Failed to move sink input 70 "output of sink.voice.raw" to sink.music.	18:15
freemangordon	whatever that means	18:15
Pali	freemangordon: try to downgrade bluez and pa to pr1.3.1 version	18:16
freemangordon	Aug 31 18:15:19 Nokia-N900 bluetoothd[1208]: Badly formated or unrecognized command: AT+XAPL=0A5C-0064-00DE,7	18:16
freemangordon	Aug 31 18:15:19 Nokia-N900 bluetoothd[1208]: Badly formated or unrecognized command: AT+XEVENT=USER-AGENT,COM.PLANTRONICS,PLT_M25-M29,,222.233,FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	18:16
freemangordon	hmm, my bluez is stock afaik	18:16
Pali	these are that funny commands :D	18:16
freemangordon	yeah :)	18:16
freemangordon	ii bluez 4.60-0maemo1.6+0m5 Bluetooth tools and daemons	18:17
Sicelo	so freemangordon, i'm on CSSU-S. if i follow the 'manual' method to fix SUPL issues, is it going to be 'easy' to revert them to original, so that i can upgrade once your patch is available on CSSU-S too?	18:17
freemangordon	Pali: could the problem be in that additional PA bluez module?	18:17
freemangordon	Sicelo: better install from cssu-devel	18:18
freemangordon	Sicelo: otherwise you risk brocen certificates store	18:18
freemangordon	*broke	18:18
freemangordon	argh	18:18
Pali	is there some additional PA bluez module?	18:18
freemangordon	BROKEN	18:18
freemangordon	Pali: in cssu	18:18
freemangordon	PA	18:18
Sicelo	from CSSU-D into CSSU-S? or wait until CSSU-S has fix?	18:18
Pali	yes, there is something, so I suggested to downgrade pa and bluez :-)	18:19
freemangordon	Sicelo: up to you, but my idea was - enable cssu-devel, install certman packages, disable cssu-devel	18:19
Sicelo	thanx	18:19
freemangordon	Pali: I guess I can just remove that module	18:19
Pali	ok	18:20
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freemangordon	gitorious got FUBAR :(	18:20
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XATRIX	freemangordon: what is the repository of your mc ?	18:38
XATRIX	Looks like i have no your repo installed	18:38
XATRIX	sounds if i have only 'extras , community, fremantle'	18:39
freemangordon	XATRIX: extras-devel :)	18:39
XATRIX	hmm	18:39
Sicelo	freemangordon: hmm, no luck for me.. http://paste.debian.net/32827/	18:46
DocScrutinizer05	same instructions apply: "enable cssu-devel, install certman packages, disable cssu-devel", just replace cssu-devel by extras-devel, and certman by mc ;-)	18:46
DocScrutinizer05	h-slp.mnc001.mcc655.pub.3gppnetwork.org:7275 ?? wtf?	18:47
Sicelo	exactly.. don't know where that comes from.	18:48
Sicelo	but 655:01 is my provider.	18:48
DocScrutinizer05	HAH	18:48
DocScrutinizer05	that's pretty weird	18:49
Sicelo	however, i'm connected via wifi	18:49
DocScrutinizer05	~gsm-agps	18:49
infobot	i guess rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP	18:49
DocScrutinizer05	??	18:49
Sicelo	i did think of that.. and the other one.. ACWP; is it?	18:49
freemangordon	Sicelo: did you reboot?	18:50
Sicelo	here you can see that the 'updated' certman stuff is on: http://paste.debian.net/32832/	18:50
Sicelo	yes freemangordon, twice now	18:50
freemangordon	Sicelo: maemosec-certman-common-ca 0.2.2	18:50
freemangordon	maemosec-certman-tools 0.2.3	18:51
freemangordon	;)	18:51
freemangordon	you should upgrade maemosec-certman-common-ca too	18:51
DocScrutinizer05	haha	18:51
DocScrutinizer05	now if every bug was that easy to fix ;-)	18:52
Sicelo	ok. so if i was to do this via dpkg, how many pkgs do i need? 3, 4!	18:52
Sicelo	?	18:52
freemangordon	Sicelo: I'd bet on 3	18:52
Sicelo	hmm, guess 4 :P because 3 updated last time :P	18:53
DocScrutinizer05	still wtf about that h-slp.mnc001.mcc655.pub.3gppnetwork.org:7275	18:53
Sicelo	ok. let's see what happens now	18:53
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: this is MNO supl server	18:53
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	18:53
DocScrutinizer05	afk, bbl	18:53
freemangordon	Sicelo: which 3 got updatted?	18:54
freemangordon	*updated	18:54
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Sicelo	all those on 0.2.3, ie libmaemosec-certman, libmaemosec, and maemosec-certman-tools	18:57
Sicelo	rebooting now	18:57
freemangordon	ok. 4 then :)	18:57
Sicelo	ok. now it's working. thanks	19:01
Sicelo	:)	19:01
Sicelo	and now there's no lookup for that h-slp.mnc001.mcc655.pub.3gppnetwork.org:7275	19:02
* Sicelo has never cared for gps until recently (due to obtaining a car)		19:03
Sicelo	anyway, one thing for sure, N900 GPS is NOT in any way inferior to what is on other devices out there, especially when both devices don't have access to A-GPS	19:06
Sicelo	months of using plain gps prove it :)	19:12
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teotwaki	I feel dirty	20:26
teotwaki	I wrote a script which pulls a package from easy_install and makes an RPM out of it.	20:27
teotwaki	Shortest .spec file I ever wrote.	20:27
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kerio	teotwaki: you mean pypi?	20:34
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: ack	21:27
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marsje	I have a weird problem with my N9: at my parents' house I don't see the wifi netwerk anymore	21:39
marsje	all other devices in the house have no problems	21:40
warfare	marsje: a reboot can help.	21:40
marsje	but when I scan for networks, I see all of the networks in the street, except this one I need	21:40
marsje	warfare: both router and phone have been rebooted multiple times	21:40
marsje	it's like the network is on some blacklist	21:40
Sicelo	-> #harmattan, i guess.	21:41
warfare	marsje: hrhm.	21:42
Sicelo	that network isn't using SSID-hiding ?	21:42
marsje	Sicelo: nope, it broadcasts the SSID and other (android) devices see the network just fine	21:42
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, see /topic	22:07
LjL-Alps	how do i see /topic? is there a command?	22:09
* LjL-Alps hides		22:09
DocScrutinizer05	/topic	22:09
DocScrutinizer05	try ^^^ this!	22:09
LjL-Alps	ooooh!	22:09
DocScrutinizer05	if your IRC client is of the crippled kind that doesn't show channel topics without your explicit interaction	22:10
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05, i'm using irssi, which is part one way, and part the other (shows only a part of a longer-than-one-line topic), but... i hate it	22:10
LjL-Alps	IRC isn't meant to be command-line anyway	22:11
LjL-Alps	err, by command-line i mean textmode	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	huh?	22:11
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LjL-Alps	IRC is so suited to a GUI approach	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	ack	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	that's why I use IRC clinets ;-)	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	clients even	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	I don't actually call IRSII an IRC client	22:12
LjL-Alps	well maybe that's a bit rad :P	22:12
DocScrutinizer05	it's an IRC tool ;-)	22:12
LjL-Alps	i normally use Konversation anyway	22:12
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DocScrutinizer05	same here	22:12
LjL-Alps	which is slow as hell and locks up and isn't even scriptable, but it's what i use	22:12
DocScrutinizer05	slow? no. Locks? no. Not scriptable? well, mostly	22:13
DocScrutinizer05	which sucks	22:13
Sicelo	LjL-Alps: youy use 800x600 resolution?	22:13
DocScrutinizer05	I still managed to "script" relogon to avoid nick changes	22:13
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: yeah well i should try killing its settings or something, as other people too have told me it's not really slow or freezing for them. but maybe they don't tend to keep about 100 channels open (among which the ones for the major distros) either ;(	22:14
LjL-Alps	Sicelo: err no why	22:14
DocScrutinizer05	well, only ~40 here	22:14
DocScrutinizer05	admittedly incl queries	22:14
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: i dunno. for instance when i ctrl+f on any window that has a long-ish scrollback, that's slower than a person can bear. about 5 seconds per letter typed	22:15
DocScrutinizer05	and yeah, it tends to become a RAM hog after some weeks of uptime, and that might cause lags when you run into swap hell	22:15
DocScrutinizer05	duh	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	swap mhell, I'd bet	22:16
LjL-Alps	oh it's not that, i reboot my computer daily	22:16
LjL-Alps	(and have 8GB of RAM)	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	then I dunno	22:16
LjL-Alps	well i should investigate it once i get back home. been like this for years	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	I have max setting for scrollback, and ctrl-f is instant	22:17
LjL-Alps	i'm one of those people who seemingly prefers to have 1 unit of annoyance every day for 10 years, than 10 units of annoyance, once.	22:17
LjL-Alps	(meaning the 10 units it takes to actually investigate a problem/nuisance)	22:17
LjL-Alps	like, at some point someone convinced me to add a "bouncing ball" widget to KDE to confirm it was bugged and wasn't removable	22:18
LjL-Alps	well, i've never removed this	22:18
LjL-Alps	this happened about 1.5 years ago...	22:18
LjL-Alps	have a red bouncing ball distracting me on the screen since	22:19
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	22:19
DocScrutinizer05	I know this problem all too well	22:19
DocScrutinizer05	but honestly, konversation 1.4 on KDE4.8.5 just behaves	22:20
DocScrutinizer05	it's a bit braindamaged but otherwise just works	22:20
DocScrutinizer05	maybe you have that akonadi or nepomuk shit running, then I'd understand that everything comes to a grinding halt	22:21
LjL-Alps	i don't think it's too braindamaged actually... it manages to do mostly all i want neatly, even though it isn't scriptable. i think it shows the people who wrote it were actually using it	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	it mist likely indexes every char you type, to a mysql db for faster searching, while you type it	22:22
LjL-Alps	oh i have some tracker like that or other annoying me, but i just killall it as needed ;(	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	most, even	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	what bugs me with konversation is the missing search in userlist	22:23
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DocScrutinizer05	and the weird notification lobotomy	22:24
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DocScrutinizer05	and the fact that you don't have a per-channel hide of join/part/nick	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	only global one	22:25
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DocScrutinizer05	xchat is much better in that regard	22:26
DocScrutinizer05	but I didn't manage to give xchat on PC a thorough test	22:27
DocScrutinizer05	poor KDE integration	22:27
LjL-Alps	hmm yeah i'm kind of partial to... not even KDE really - just, if i'm using KDE, then i'd like to use KDE programs on it. if i were using GNOME, i'd probably like to use GNOME programs on it.	22:27
LjL-Alps	otherwise i might as well run mIRC on WINE or something ;(	22:28
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NeutrinoPower	hi, how can I use irda to simply transfer text from Thinkpad T41 to N900?	22:47
nox-	i dont think n900 supports irda... try usb or wifi	22:48
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NeutrinoPower	:-(	22:49
LjL-Alps	yeah i believe the N900 only has Consumer IR (i.e. it transmits only, can't receive, so can't implement IRDA)	22:50
NeutrinoPower	ok	22:50
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XATRIX	Hi, i've enabled extras-devel and currently i have 'Maemo 5 Community SSU Package' update available	22:51
XATRIX	When i click update it	22:51
XATRIX	I receive something like, "If you want to update this version you have to connect your phone to PC and rn Nokia PC Suite"	22:52
dos1	XATRIX: you have some dependency problem	22:53
XATRIX	yea	22:53
dos1	could you check logs?	22:53
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XATRIX	which one ?	23:27
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DocScrutinizer05	HAM	23:31
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