IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-08-14

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ShadowJKminiyo; and it's on /home partition you get issues?00:15
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definityWhen i install gcc4.6 i cant find the binary, where is it>01:45
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qwerty123hii can we boot dsl from usd with uboot?or multiboot mayb?04:46
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qwerty123never mind, just realised its nt for arm!!04:55
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qwerty123well, maybe tinycorelinux then!! :P05:00
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robbiethe1stWait, why do you want to?05:07
robbiethe1stYou can strip down Maemo as much as you want, if you don't need X...05:08
qwerty123i was just looking for lowest resource eater distros!! came across them!! thought, maybe with n900 hardware, i may have a very smooth linux machine!! dats y!! :P nothing els!! :P05:10
robbiethe1stThing is, how much are you wiling to give up?05:11
qwerty123we cant kick X.. kills all the gui?? maemo shudn boot then i believe!!05:11
robbiethe1stWell, no... you'd have a command line05:11
qwerty123agreed!! :)05:11
robbiethe1stwith power kernel it's definitely possible to get a proper command line only setup running, which obviously has no real resource use...05:12
qwerty123stopping xorg,end in reboot!! removing should end in reboot loop :P05:12
robbiethe1stNo, you wouldn't stop or remove it, you'd not start it. Of course, you couldn't allow the various other components to start either, so you'd basically have to start from init or so... see bootmenu05:13
robbiethe1stYou can easily configure a menu item which will allow you to run a script. At that point, you'll need to deal with the watch dog timers, make sure they don't time out, and then load whatever modules you need, drop to a shelll05:14
robbiethe1stSee Backupmenu for details of this05:14
qwerty123recovery console sounds easier!! :P05:15
robbiethe1stIt depends on what you want...05:15
robbiethe1stSee, with the method I've described, you'll boot "into" your maemo system, just not all the way. so all the files/kernel modules etc. will all be there05:16
robbiethe1styou can then do your own launching etc. Might even be able to boot 'into' a debian chroot, run lightweight X etc?05:17
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qwerty123yeah kinda got that!! neways i somehow managed to mess my easydeb so was lookkng fr a replacement!! but killing gui is actually going too far :P hehe! thanx man for the info,btw!!05:18
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SAiFboot looping after battery drain..05:34
SAiFlast thing was apt-get install SSH05:41
robbiethe1stDo you have backupmenu?05:41
robbiethe1stIf not, you're kind of out of luck05:41
robbiethe1st(or rescue console etc)05:41
SAiFNo.. so I am kinda fscked up.05:42
robbiethe1stWhen you wipe it, so long as you just do the main image(and not the eMMC one), you won't lose your MyDocs files05:43
robbiethe1stJust your apps and such05:43
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SAiFYeah I always take backup of mydocs.. I am I will have to flash it twice in a month.05:44
SAiFby the way whats wrong with SSH?05:44
robbiethe1stNo clue05:50
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SAiFjus booted up after replacing battery and removing from charger.06:19
SAiFpackage name of backupmenu or rescue console.. pls apt_get install >>>>>06:20
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SAiFjust installed backup menu06:27
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Macorhm. cutetube in the stable repo is broken07:18
Macormaybe the testing one works07:20
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Macorodd. the newer cutetube isnt in the repos07:29
Macori enabled extras-devel07:30
Macorisnt showing up07:30
Macorcssu-s has the merlin repo as devel07:32
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infobotfrom memory, rescue-os is
psycho_oreosinfobot, rescueos is also
infobotokay, psycho_oreos09:42
infobotmethinks rescue-os is, or
infobotpsycho_oreos: aw, gee09:44
psycho_oreos<LjL-Alps> wow, so cool to see a thread where someone compares a 2005 device to a 2009 device and everyone else flames the 2005 device, or whatever <-- The guy posted in the wrong area mainly and I guess most of us were N900 fans to begin with.09:46
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psycho_oreosWell.. I guess there's partially "favouritism" but also the way the OP phrased things were all subject to closer scrutiny.09:47
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psycho_oreosI'm pretty certain the exact same case were to be done elsewhere, regardless if its xda-developers or iphone forums. Posting in the wrong area and in a way to proclaim the "device" to be superior as opposed to whatever most others are using and it'll be like adding fuel to fire.09:51
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psycho_oreoslol @ thread hijackers. Shifting from one issue to another when the OP already had the issue solved.
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* psycho_oreos bets viqtah is Indian.10:14
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Macorhave to love fbsd ports10:31
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amospallahi, is that posible, to boot the internal kernel, and make it mount root in sd card, instead of internal emmc ?10:57
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amospallaI've had strange behaviour lately on emmc, and I thought it could be a good idea to move to sd, it that is posible10:58
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amospallaanother option, is stop using home, mydocs and swap on emmc, and only use root, AFAIK it is a mostly read partition right?10:59
amospallathat last method is quite easy, just modify mount options on /etc11:00
amospallawhat do you think about? anybody has had any experience with that?11:00
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psycho_oreosI believe rootfs is stored on a NAND partition. It is not stored on eMMC.11:13
psycho_oreosUsing only rootfs would not make the device function properly (if at all).11:14
SpeedEvilit would sort of work with early versions11:14
SpeedEvilnow not at all11:14
psycho_oreosMissing swap (which is almost a necessity due to RAM size), missing /home and /opt which shares the same partition on eMMC.11:15
SpeedEvilin principle, there is no reason you can't use SD instead11:15
amospallabut, I could move everything on emmc to external sd, just editing startup scripts, to mount those on sd11:15
SpeedEvilnobodies done it and written it up though11:15
psycho_oreosExactly, nobody is willing to take that risk either.11:15
SpeedEvilIIRC someone installing bootmenu, then reinstalling the NAND using meego11:16
SpeedEvilthey having a broken USB11:16
SpeedEvilbut not written up11:16
SpeedEvilthere was a meego SD image11:17
psycho_oreosI remember someone documenting meego installation using that nice N900 flashing jig.11:17
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psycho_oreosI'd imagine without a fast enough microSD card (class 10 barely scrapes that mark unless one forks out a really trustworthy and a fast type), you need to somehow delay certain things because there of speed difference.11:20
psycho_oreoss/of/is a/11:20
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: I'd imagine without a fast enough microSD card (class 10 barely scrapes that mark unless one forks out a really trustworthy and a fast type), you need to somehow delay certain things because there is a speed difference.11:20
amospallaon /etc/init.d/rcS, mounting swap and home seems to be harcoded11:20
SpeedEvilread speeds are often similar11:20
amospallaright, I would need a fast sd11:21
psycho_oreoswrite speeds otoh aren't.11:21
SpeedEvilmy first approach would be to change the device node names in early boot11:21
SpeedEvilsee if that worked11:21
psycho_oreosYeah there would be a few scripts you need to change around to make it work. It's not some easy one way job.11:21
psycho_oreoshmm via udev?11:22
SpeedEvilI wonder if simply turning off the NAND support in kernel would work11:22
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amospallaanother option, if emmc is not a smart chip (ie: logical sector XX is always the same physical sector on NAND), use small partitions, and the day some physical sectors get defective, move that partitio to a higher block of sectors on emmc11:23
psycho_oreosAlso, this is a little unrelated but often at times for me to have my microSD to be mounted at boot (which is already using ext3) seems to not work well. I often get "Unsupported SD card" or something like that, in which I just run one of those QueenBeeCon widget I made to force mount it later. I wonder if that would be an issue if forcing maemo to run on microSD and with ext3 fs.11:24
psycho_oreosI sort of had always been under the impression that eMMC heavily relies on e2fsck tools to check and mark bad sectors, etc.11:26
psycho_oreosI also somehow would think that eMMC behaves a little similar to how SSD would behave.. still heavily depending on external fs tools to check their status.11:27
Iridoshm, I never got "unsupported sd card" at boot, ever11:27
psycho_oreosRunning on ext3 for microSD?11:27
Iridosleft it as the vfat it was11:27
Iridosyeah, I wondered how much of a problem it might create if you switch to a proper fs11:28
psycho_oreosThat would be the case :) I reckon. I'm using ext3 on both eMMC and microSD. eMMC never fails to mount but microSD (~90% of the time) fails.11:28
psycho_oreosIn theory it shouldn't have issues mounting ext3fs but for some reason I believe somewhere else is still thinking microSD fs are always vfat and not some other exotic fs.11:28
amospallaI have swap, vfat and ext3 on sd, but I don't remember how do I mount them, I think I do it with a own script, IIRC11:29
Iridoswith it being ext3, does all that remounting stuff when you connect to a computer via usb still work?11:29
amospallasometimes get that error message, but I always have them mounted11:29
amospallaI don't use masstorage11:29
psycho_oreosamospalla, that would also be my way of doing it. "hackish" yes but nonetheless it works.11:30
amospallawell, yes, I've done it sometimes, and the small vfat on sd is exported via usb11:30
amospallapsycho_oreos: what are you refering to?11:30
amospallaabout the way to mount? or the emmc partitions?11:31
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psycho_oreosIridos, I also hardly use mass storage mode as well. Though I believe remounting on computer works as always, it may not work once umounted from computer and N900 tries to mount it by itself. Though I have not tried recently so I wouldn't know (let alone care).11:31
drathirpsycho_oreos: fs created on sd throught phone, or from pc?11:31
psycho_oreosamospalla, mounting.11:31
psycho_oreosdrathir, I believe at the time when I did it, it was through computer.11:31
amospallaI once set n900 to start at boot as root, a script on /root/local.start, and I do lots of funky things there11:32
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Iridoswhat is your major way to exchange files with the n900 then?11:33
drathirthat strange in this case i have problems with mount  but fs created from phone was...11:33
psycho_oreosI probably would have done mkfs.ext3 on device before but it was painfully slow. Though its been ages ago since I recall how or what I did.11:33
amospallathe last one, is starting /home/user/bin/local.start as user "user" :D11:33
drathiramospalla: why do that?11:33
psycho_oreosI wished I could get upstart to behave nicely lol. Some of my daemons fail to start for some unknown reason.11:33
psycho_oreosIridos, I mainly use sshfs (yes I know its slow and somewhat overkill) but I tend to keep the device usable through remoting as well rather than just treating it as mass storage mode and not being able to have access to those exported volumes on the device itself.11:34
amospallaI mount things on sd, launch some custom scripts, execute some terminals at startup... 4 years of having a n900 let me to thing about a lot of funny and strange things11:35
usr_courierhi all! Sorry for off-topic, but could someone tell me is there any channel about a Canonical "ubuntuphone"?11:35
drathiramospalla: you mean all system booted in root mode? Thats bad idea i think all data net saved on big storage in this case...11:35
psycho_oreosYou could probably ask in #ubuntu and hopefully they'll redirect you to appropriate channel usr_courier.11:35
amospalladrathir: no, I mean, I run things as root, to say, mount, bind mounts, starting daemons from a chroot I've set up, and finally, launch a 'su -s /bin/sh -c "/home/user/bin/local.start" user', to run things as user11:37
drathirusr_courier: /msg alice help11:37
psycho_oreosI used to also make upstart do some funky things upon boot, but with mixed success. Nowadays daemons fail to start for some weird reason, if I manually invoked them to start, they start otherwise they remain stopped.11:37
drathirif good remember11:37
psycho_oreosdrathir, you meant alis11:37
amospalladrathir: everything runs with its correct user11:37
usr_courierfound one11:37
drathirpsycho_oreos: yes yes should find by name channel11:37
usr_courierbtw is anybody here interested in that platform too and can say a few words on "ubuntu touch" versus "maemo/meego/tizen" platform? Which one is more "open"? Any suggestions?11:38
psycho_oreosThat's as good as trying to compare a fictional device with a fully released device.11:39
amospallaI just hope ubuntu is open enough, so when my n900 dies I can have a decent gnu/linux on my mobile, without having to set a hacky/broken chroot11:39
usr_courieramospalla: considering an "upgrade" to ubuntu-touch?11:40
SpeedEvilamospalla: are you aware of Jolla?11:41
psycho_oreosI personally doubt it will, ubuntu's theme isn't the same as its parent debian who is critical of open sourced stuff. If you also have a look at most other embedded devices, they still have proprietary components. Even raspberry pi.11:41
amospallaSpeedEvil: I've read a bit of it, but is that really open? at least, as much as maemo is?11:41
Lava_Croftlet's combine the best of both worlds11:41
Lava_Croftandroid and ubuntu11:41
SpeedEvilJolla seem the most likely to produce a worthy successor11:41
Lava_Croftwhat can possibly go wrong11:41
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, yeah android base with ubuntu theme :> that would be effective, keep hardware manufacturers happy that the underlying hardware components is closed source.11:42
drathirmaemo > meego i think but the meego and mostly tizen should have bigger future...11:42
usr_courierAFAIK maemo5 is not fully open too, there are seems to be binary drivers11:42
SpeedEvilJolla is nice in principle because it can run androsid apps in klinux11:42
wndif only jolla hardware was to get a decent hardware keyboard11:42
usr_courierpsycho_oreos: are you SURE you KNOW what you are talking about?11:42
amospallausr_courier: I'm not considering upgrade to ubuntu right now, just hope it can be a good competitor, competition is good, and if it is open enough, it can make a good difference11:42
wndhad they announced one, I would've pre-ordered the thing already11:43
psycho_oreosusr_courier, exactly about what? the last comment I directed to Lava_Croft was a joke. I wasn't serious.11:43
usr_courierI see no problem in porting ubuntu to an ARM phone. Debian was ported to n90011:43
usr_courierpsycho_oreos: ok11:44
wndI see a problem. ubuntu. ;-)11:44
Lava_Croftthats why they use android too11:44
Lava_Croftto fix ubuntu!11:44
drathirandroid is open like hell even cant acces to full root phone thats for me isnt open...11:44
* Lava_Croft chuckles like a madman11:44
psycho_oreosThe problem is not about porting, the problem is the openness of the said agreement with the suppliers and manufacturers of those respective components.11:44
usr_courierwnd: is this an religious issue?11:44
amospallausr_courier: you mean, the chroot? I have not played with that, but can a chroot be completely integrated, to the point to replace the host system?11:44
psycho_oreosI still remain skeptic whether ubuntu edge will fly or not. Currently they are at least $21 million short.11:45
Lava_Croftand they have no device11:45
usr_courieramospalla: I think it can, just no one wants to remove maemo from his/her n900 as a master system11:45
wndusr_courier, mostly yes, but I've also had my fair share of bad experience in trying to maintain a few hundred computers with ubuntu installed on them11:45
psycho_oreosYeah so we are debating/discussing over "fictional" product.11:46
psycho_oreosSo many possibilities..11:46
Lava_Croftthe only guys who really have a working device is Jolla11:46
usr_courierbecause debian on n900 was just a toy11:46
drathirubuntu for od until 11.04 go with bad side that dont like me so much...11:46
Lava_Croftthe rest piggyback rides on other devices11:46
usr_courierpsycho_oreos: I am not going to debate with you on finctioness of this product11:46
amospallausr_courier: I refered to android/ubuntu only, n900 can not handle current android/ubuntu with its 256MB of memory :(, it is out of the equation11:46
Lava_Croftit can handle it11:47
Lava_Croftjust not good enough:)11:47
usr_courierpsycho_oreos: follow peacefully your strange beliefs11:47
Lava_Croftandroid wants a quadcore cpu to perform11:47
Lava_Croftbecause its such good software11:47
drathirusr_courier: if you dont do so much changes maemo is fully functionall...11:48
psycho_oreosI'm sure there's fair few amongst us whom would prefer having a proper hardware keyboard which this ubuntu edge seems to currently lack. You can already see a few TMO threads about people who wishes Jolla phone/device actually has a hardware keyboard.11:48
Lava_Croftjolla will release a keyboard device in time11:48
* usr_courier looks at his single core android phone and then on Lava_Croft11:48
Lava_Crofti look at my nexus711:48
psycho_oreosusr_courier, I don't think anybody who laid money on the said product would anyway :) I'm just stating where I stand amongst this "ubuntu edge".11:48
drathirLava_Croft: oh that info litte scare me...11:49
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Lava_Croftubuntu edge movie mostly sounded like some rapper telling about his phone11:49
Lava_Croftsapphire glass yo11:49
psycho_oreosCritics also mentioned about that :)11:49
usr_courierok, got the point. Thanks11:49
drathirLava_Croft: because sadly maybe be interested that device...11:49
Lava_CroftHey, ubuntu edge is just speculation at this moment, it might change and be more awesome11:50
Lava_Croftbut just like i wouldnt want a phone that says 'Windows'11:50
Lava_Crofti also dont want a phone that says 'ubuntu11:50
Lava_Croftbad experiences11:50
drathirubuntu changes for me go to bad side all the time now...11:51
psycho_oreosHah, I'd prefer ubuntu any given day over windows. You see windows phones these days, much like any generic computer keyboard featuring "windows" logo as a key. Talk about lameness, *cough* Apple *cough* doesn't even do that.11:51
drathirpsycho_oreos: but still ubuntu > win11:52
Lava_Crofti rather have windows11:52
Lava_Croftsince at least windows runs games11:53
psycho_oreosdrathir, yeah hell yeah. To me any given day definitely I'd prefer something that's a little more open than have Ballmer spewing "Developers, Developers, Developers" over his coffin.11:53
amospallaI wish that ubuntu phone to be like maemo: a beautiful shell upon a "standard" stack of software below of it "bash, apt-get, an X compatible display, and the full ubuntu repo of software", something similar to what maemo is, but modern11:54
drathirLava_Croft: wine maybe was ported to arm too11:54
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psycho_oreosIf the hardware was fast enough and features something similar to VT-d or AMD-V, I'm sure one could run windows within a VM and therefore games. There's no real need to install windows on real hardware and let it meddle with the raw stuff.11:55
drathiramospalla: ubuntu go to bad side not performance and good to use now only good look for eyes nothing more...11:56
drathirthats why i run from ubuntu to arch... When they give me no choice by default with unity...11:57
psycho_oreosI was told that you can remove unity, not sure personally.11:57
amospallaI think most complaints to ubuntu come from their shell, but that is something you can change with apt-get, please correct me if I am wrong11:58
amospallabut once you jump that gap, isn't it a traditional linux under the hood?11:58
drathirpsycho_oreos: yes i can but in ubu always when you remove somethin from system stuff near future system go down...11:59
psycho_oreosIf generally speaking, I believe most find the likes of distros such as ubuntu too appealing to not use CLI. It's kinda like running windows and not having to bother with CLI but except when ubuntu's GUI stuffs up and you're left with CLI you probably would end up screaming.11:59
amospallathat is what I mean, if ubuntu phone still follows that rule, I will surely jump to it, with all my known gnu/linux tools below it, and a repo full of thousands of packages, just what I love on n90011:59
drathiror will be have all time suprises...11:59
psycho_oreosdrathir, not quite sure what you meant there.12:00
psycho_oreosAlso fair few distros are moving towards wayland and deprecating Xorg. I have already heard some unpleasant stuff about wayland. Though I'm sure every other distros has their ups and downs.12:00
psycho_oreosArch is heavily relying on systemd and there's already critics loathing it. Then there's upstart which ubuntu also uses but its not a complete replacement compared to sysvinit.12:01
psycho_oreosI'm sure people will have gripes here and there.. regardless.12:01
Lava_Croftdrathir: wine is not a replacement for windows, when it comes to games:)12:03
drathirpsycho_oreos: when you remove unity components you should have all time problems any kind that was all time in past when customize the ubuntu instalation a lot of dependencies and to much integrated...12:03
amospallasteam is changing the "games" world on linux, and I hope it keep growing fast12:03
psycho_oreosNonetheless you find winedb being filled with game titles. Almost always.12:03
Lava_Croftthat says nothing about how said games run12:04
Lava_Croftwhat the problems may be12:04
Lava_Croftits easier to just run a win7 install:)12:04
drathirpsycho_oreos: yes wayland isnt perfect but is still so young project...12:04
psycho_oreosdrathir, well yeah that's true but it doesn't mean that you can't technically cannot remove unity. Just harder heh.12:04
Lava_Croftsteam changed the gameworld on linux by porting old games to linux12:05
amospallawhy remove unity? it is deeply inside, just don't run it12:05
amospallaisn't that posible?12:05
drathirLava_Croft: sure not in all case but some of games better works on wine than native windows i hear that not one time...12:05
psycho_oreosThat's probably because winedb isn't as polished as cedega ;), have a look at crossover/cedega's variant. Even though they are more proprietary, their db seems to be well polished over the freeform *ahem* wine variant.12:05
psycho_oreosdrathir, true.12:06
Lava_Croftdrathir: yeah just like the people stating game X runs faster under linux12:06
Lava_Croftthan under windows12:06
Lava_Crofttoo bad thats just almost always untrue12:06
psycho_oreosDepending on their underlying engine. If the engine was based on opengl for instance, on linux it maybe faster but not always.12:07
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Lava_Croftthats just the renderer12:07
Lava_Croftwhat about sound, lol12:07
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drathirpsycho_oreos: g2 was the best for me... Sad they stop develop...12:07
psycho_oreosI'm sure anandtech had an article about it.. err no.. phoronix.12:07
Lava_Crofta good source for unbiased news12:07
psycho_oreosdrathir, g2?12:08
psycho_oreosIts hard to find unbiased news these days regardless.12:08
drathirLava_Croft: sounds sadly sometimes is little silence...12:09
Lava_Croftyeah, but phoronix is known for their silly articles12:09
drathiror take down alsa with overload...12:09
Lava_Croftbesides, im the type that always tests cross platform games on both wintoons and lunix12:09
Lava_Croftand 99 out of a 100 times, wintoons just wins when it comes to that12:10
Lava_Croftwhich isnt strange, given the history12:10
drathirpsycho_oreos: the best old gnome2...12:10
Lava_Croftthe moment gnu/linux can honestly replace windows for gaming, a lot of folks will ditch windows happily12:10
amospallait is a process, if steam is able to produce that, will take its time, that can not be done in a few months12:11
psycho_oreosGiven the fact most games were based around windows' directX for that matter. Though even if lets not say I sourced my arguments from phoronix but say that in a more general sense that gaming windows games on linux isn't too far behind. I wouldn't be far off the mark either.12:11
Lava_Croftpeople talk like its steam that makes games work under linux12:11
Lava_Croftstop dreaming please12:11
Lava_Croftsteam is only a DRM platform for games12:11
Lava_Croftdevelopers need to port their games to linux12:11
psycho_oreosdrathir, ahh I don't think I've ever used gnome2 lol. I think I started with KDE but that was years ago.12:12
amospallayes, that is completely sure, but steam may orchestrate that, that is his role, and an important one12:12
Lava_Croftno, steam has no real role in that12:12
Lava_Crofta triple A studio is not going to port their direct3d based engine to linux anytime soon12:13
psycho_oreosSteam maybe the distributor but do remember the fact that steam was strictly for windows only.12:13
Lava_Croftnot even id Software sees any reason to port to linux12:13
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drathirLava_Croft: yes can with better performance if game firm and develop are to lazy to make native on linux and scare that performance will be better than win one...12:13
Lava_Croftsteam on linux is mostly great for the indies12:13
amospallaif the movement steam is doing is not able to change the games situation, it will never ever do, I am almost sure about that12:13
Lava_Croftand smaller devs12:13
Lava_Crofttriple A studios dont care for linux, since its market share is tiny12:14
Lava_Croftthey care more about apples12:14
amospallathat is right, but I hope that changes12:14
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Lava_Crofthope is great, indeed12:14
Lava_Croftbut i dont see it change anytime soon, sadly12:14
Lava_Croftalso, dont forget that MS really did good work on directc12:14
Lava_Croftits amazing, but they did!12:14
psycho_oreosThat was then, I wonder has directX become more bloat.12:15
Lava_Croftpeople like John Carmack state these days that directx is better than opengl12:15
Lava_Croftbut opengl sticks around due to inertie12:15
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* psycho_oreos personally believes its more to do with cross-compatibility.12:15
psycho_oreosI wouldn't doubt directX would be bad, too bad its just windows-centric piece of technology.12:16
Lava_Croftthat doesnt matter, since windows is where the money is made12:16
* psycho_oreos recalls all the cool demoscene stuff were heavily relying on directX.12:16
amospallaopengl has been dormant for years, until lately, when has woken up12:17
Lava_Croftdirectx just caught up on opengl12:17
amospalladirectx take a lot of advantage during that time12:17
Lava_Croftand surpassed it12:17
Lava_Croftthats the silly thing about MS12:17
Lava_Croftthey are so able to fuck things up in a grand way12:17
Lava_Croftbut then you see directx and you wonder what12:17
Lava_Croftthey DO have capable employees12:17
psycho_oreosTheir CEO is messed up in the head -_-'12:18
Lava_Croftwonder why they didnt work on the windows8 team! :)12:18
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Lava_Croftbut ill gladly admit12:18
Lava_Croftit feels cool to run steam on linux12:18
Lava_Croftso i can totally imagine getting carried away with the dream of Linux Gaming:D12:19
Lava_Croftits just so neat to start l4d2 orso on linux12:19
Lava_Croft(until you notice it runs worse than on windows)12:19
psycho_oreosGates, sadly I admit is the brains behind M$, without Gates's influence I don't think M$ can stand on its own well.. Just look at all the news surrounding Ballmer.12:19
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* psycho_oreos thinks of Steam on linux, then thinks of TF2 with that bonus little mascot.12:20
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psycho_oreosSlowly but surely linux will make an impact. It's all in a matter of time. It has already dominated in areas which windows cannot reach simply because of their PR issues.12:21
Lava_Croftim a Quake person, tf2 is blasphemy12:21
psycho_oreosHah blasphemy! lol first time I've heard that religious term being used on games :D12:22
Macorpsycho_oreos: apple picks up the slack12:23
Macorevery year has been "the year of linux" heh12:23
Lava_Croftyear of linux desktop yo12:23
Lava_Crofthey, at least MS is helping out the linux community with windows812:23
Macorthe only major market impact of linux (if you want to call it that) would be android using a linux kernel heh12:24
psycho_oreosMacor, *shrugs* I somewhat beg to differ. I think Apple is still trying to maintain its hold on the marketshare.12:24
* psycho_oreos was thinking moreso about the likes of other embedded devices including CPE routers.12:24
Lava_Croftteam fortress!12:24
Macormaybe. but then ahain osx is just a mach kernel using a fbsd base with a somewhat crap wm12:25
Macoryeah... that too but you dont notice it as much12:25
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Macorbut that isnt a real end user using it type of deal12:25
psycho_oreosheh bit of TF decal :12:25
psycho_oreosI was moreso thinking about that recent news on how Apple decided to piss some people off with that Breaking Bad TV series.12:26
Macorwith the exception of ubuntu and rh... linux is a bit niche12:26
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psycho_oreosAlso iPhone 5 using Nano-SIM or whatever its called, and a brand new connector named Thunderbolt or whatever it is.12:27
Macorno company has put out a linux box for consumer use and has had success with it12:27
psycho_oreosThere's probably a large proportion of web servers running linux, alas that gets ignored.12:27
psycho_oreosThey can't profit on a software that is free :p12:28
Macorthat isnt end use either ;)12:28
WizzupMacor: I do not believe that that is true12:28
Macorsure they can12:28
Macorwith the oem savings12:28
psycho_oreosIts no different than how Apple treats its "hackintosh" base.12:28
psycho_oreosNo but it still is something one can brag about :p linux being everywhere else.12:28
MacorWizzup: heh. im sure there are plenty of stats on it12:28
WizzupI think there's several companies selling ubuntu laptops12:29
WizzupThere's huge stores in china selling ubuntu laptops12:29
WizzupAnd the dell sputnik? laptop also sold quite well12:29
WizzupAnd there's all the android devices12:29
Wizzupwhich are also linux based12:29
Macorand i bet it only amounts to a small % of overall sales in comparison to a win or apple box12:29
psycho_oreosDell at one stage also offered linux preinstalls iinm. It only happened in US sadly.12:29
Wizzuppsycho_oreos: I can still get a laptop with ubuntu preinstalled from dell12:29
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Wizzupand I live in the EU12:29
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Wizzupoh well12:30
Macordoes it change the price of the unit?12:30
Macorby how much?12:30
psycho_oreosWizzup, heh news to me, though these days I prefer a non-branded laptop instead. I hate how the majority of the brands still stick with mainstream crap.12:30
WizzupMacor: I don't know. 60?12:31
Macori'm just saying. overall linux sales probably amount to like 1%12:31
psycho_oreosYou're essentially not paying M$ loyalty fee.12:31
Wizzuppsycho_oreos: also not for office, etc12:31
Macorand im sure a lot of it still has to do with unsupported hardware12:32
psycho_oreosWizzup, yeah mainly because they doubt linux's viability for business usage.12:32
Macorlike iphones heh12:32
drathirLava_Croft: better than port direct make games like rage dropping directx...12:32
Macoror having to shop for a specific scanner12:32
Macorand hope sane doesnt suck with it12:32
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Lava_Croftgames like Rage actually nearly dropped opengl12:33
Lava_Croftin favor of directx:)12:33
Macorpsycho_oreos: plus most cos are institutionalized on exchange12:33
Macorand tbh there isnt a real better local alternative12:33
Macorzimbra was probably the closest until it got totally fked up12:33
drathiramospalla: not sure if they see % gamers on linux maybe they think about linux users more seriously...12:33
Macori doubt gaming has that big of an impact nowadays12:34
amospalladrathir: I hope they do12:34
Macordevs are stopping on their pc games12:35
Lava_Croftthey are?12:35
Macorlike 2k and ea12:35
Lava_Croft2k and ea12:35
psycho_oreosMacor, which heavily depends on one's beliefs :p to me I'm sure most other manufacturers frown upon the likes of linux was most likely to do with bribing. Have a look about 2 years ago (or wait, even less). In Australia, you see computer advertisments with <insert_shop_name_or_manufacturer_name> recommending windows <latest_version_here>12:35
Macorno nba2k or madden for pc heh12:35
Lava_Croftwhen are the last games they released that were good12:35
Lava_Crofti dont mind companies like 2k and ea leaving the PC space12:36
Macorheh.. just saying. there is quite the sports games cult12:36
Lava_Croftlet them dump their crap on the consoles12:36
drathirnot better is more popularised that people still not informed that better alternatives to winscary, but great for w8 ppl maybe looks for alternatives much more...12:36
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Macori feel bad for nintendo12:36
Macorwiiu is a bust12:36
Macordevs already abandoned it12:36
Macorit isnt viable12:36
Macorpretty soon it will be ms and sony and thats it12:37
Lava_Croftdont say so hard that nintendo is gone12:37
Lava_Croftpeople said that countless times about nintendo12:38
Macorand it is nintendo's fault. they released it without many of their franchise games ready12:38
Lava_Croftlike nokia, its a company over a 100 years old, it aint going away anytime soon12:38
psycho_oreosThough nokia will become small and probably niche, like sega.12:38
Macorsega doesnt make consoles heh12:38
psycho_oreosThey _used_ to.12:38
Macorbut i guess nokia doesnt make operating systems12:39
psycho_oreosThey still do make consoles, but not for the consumer-end market.12:39
Macori guess12:39
psycho_oreosnokia, mind you was making varied stuff before it became a mobile/cell phone manufacturere.12:39
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: nokia, mind you was making varied stuff befor it became a mobile/cell phone manufacturere.12:39
drathiropengl have better graphics more realistic and less performance requitments than directx...12:39
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psycho_oreosnokia boots was notably one of the things nokia made back then.12:40
Macordx has to middle man it12:40
Wizzupoh, dx is dying alright12:40
Macordoubt it... devs are institutionalized on the apis12:41
* psycho_oreos can only imagine bribery from it.12:41
Macornokia boots? lol12:41
WizzupThey used to make wheels too12:41
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psycho_oreosMacor, check wikipedia if in doubt.12:41
Macordo they make gym shoes?12:41
psycho_oreosThey made other things as well..12:41
WizzupMacor: ah... I see... how can I program in Direct3D for iOS and Android? Or even window mobile?12:41
Macori want some nokia gym shoes heh12:41
psycho_oreosI dunno, doubt it.12:42
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WizzupOr on the web?12:42
MacorWizzup: that is irrelevant when you are making a game like world of warcraft heh12:42
WizzupI don't think so. We're talking about ``future'' platforms, where windows has no place12:43
Wizzupand since windows is the only platform that offers d3d...12:43
Macorlike xb1?12:43
psycho_oreos*rolls eyes* world of warcraft... reminds me of how devastating MMORPG can be. *recalls an anime title featuring MMORPG game*.12:44
drathirpay x time for win all the time the same thing with changed layout only to lie ppl look other its something new... We also need ppl with migration to linux like i do...12:45
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psycho_oreosdrathir, don't forget that they try to force it down people's throats.12:46
drathirLava_Croft: nokia will go down with pact of fa*e devil mean m$...12:47
Lava_Croftbecause MS is so different from other companies12:48
Lava_Croftthat you have to write m$12:48
Lava_Croftget over it, sonny12:48
Lava_Croftall those companies are just as bad12:48
Lava_Croftnokia isnt in any way better or worse than MS12:48
Lava_Croftits a good match12:48
Lava_Croftall those people crying about how MS is brining nokia down, while it was actually Finnish Nokia leaders that brought nokia down12:49
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Lava_Croftand handed it over to an ex-MS employee12:49
psycho_oreosI think MS conveniently has S in their name, hence could be labelled as money centric :P12:49
Lava_Croftyeah, because other companies are not money centric12:49
Lava_Croftthey are in it for the good of the world12:50
psycho_oreosI didn't imply that12:50
Lava_Croftits so silly to single out MS12:50
Iridospsycho_oreos, yes... that only either the mass storage-mode or the device itself can have access to the disk is a nuisance. still seems easier to me than looking up the IP of phone and/or desktop in the 192.* network and then doing ssh/scp. could of course pin the IP in the dhcp server at least at home... and run some dynamic dns thing for at uni... but always been to lazy to set any of those up.12:50
psycho_oreosI was just saying it was rather convenient for MS to have S in it.12:50
psycho_oreosIridos, I just setup as static IP. Much easier when doing USB networking.12:52
psycho_oreosI'm sure Sony also have bad customers labelling Sony as Sory.12:54
Iridosmaybe. can't do that at uni, though, there'd be bound to be conflicts... or the routers could just refuse to route packets from the wron ip altogether12:54
psycho_oreosIf you are using USB networking and you only have one device that uses USB networking, There'd be no conflicts.12:54
drathirLava_Croft: is little better because makeing pretty good stuff include and before e51 phone after they phone was a joke... Microsoft all the time do this for money... Even apple wich dont like too but is better than M$ because if good remember ppl who buy system can  make upgrade to new version with little fee not full without choice...12:54
psycho_oreosUSB networking only exists between mainly a computer and the device via USB. If you are using a hub or have multiple devices relying on USB networking then sure it would be more complicated as they cannot share the same subnet.12:55
Lava_Croftyeah nokia wasnt doing it for money!12:56
drathirLava_Croft: M$ isnt good only is a monopolistic company where other os hard to fly higher...12:56
psycho_oreosE.g. having multiple N900 plugged into computer and all setup to use PC Suite Mode which is just an alias to use USB networking.12:56
Iridosdon't have usb networking... the desktop is on the wireless itself, so is the phone (and the sim is with a plan without data... or prohibitively expensive data). never saw a point12:56
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psycho_oreosThe whole point of USB networking could also be used to allow the device to use host's network. Whereby the computer provides the internet/intranet access and the N900 access through it via NAT.12:57
psycho_oreosIt's just a little more fancy than setting up for just mass storage mode.12:58
drathiragain thing should be only avaible buy clean computer kits not with os installed that also will be change sytuation if ppl see win and linux 10 or more times cheeper...12:58
psycho_oreosYou use the same cable to do other things as well.. you can even make your N900 as the one with internet and have PC connecting through it. There's myriads of things you can do with USB networking.12:58
Lava_Croftdrathir: if you think MS is different than Nokia, you are a dreamer12:59
Lava_Croftits your right to dream, so have fun !12:59
psycho_oreosInevitably I think people are dumb and lazy. If a computer without an OS preinstalled, most people will panic and wonder what the hell is going on and what's with a flashing cursor after a line full of capital letters.12:59
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usb-networking is, or, or
psycho_oreosIridos, ^13:00
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drathirLava_Croft: but in my opinion nokia in past make good solid products but microsoft all the time jokeing from ppl who dont have really alternatives in that old times...13:02
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Lava_Croftwhere nokia was good in the past and crap now13:03
Lava_CroftMS is good now and was crap in the past13:03
Lava_Croftagain,  a good combination, those two13:03
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Lava_Croftim not sensitive to fanboism13:03
psycho_oreosNot to mention there's antitrust built up against MS. Don't forget that point as well.13:03
Lava_Croftif its a company in the game to make money, its not to be trusted13:03
Lava_Croftwether its nokia, google, MS, or whatever13:04
amospallais rescueOS fsck unreliable as stock maemo?13:04
amospallaas stock maemo's fsck?13:04
drathirpsycho_oreos: yes true but ppl will be see how expensive is microsoft and near is other os much more cheaper wich one will be chose ?13:04
psycho_oreosAren't they the same version? *shrugs*13:04
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amospallaAFAIK, stock maemo fsck is not very reliable13:05
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amospallaI was told here13:05
psycho_oreosdrathir, It doesn't boil to that imo. There's also people who also believes paying software is a must, because without paying its like there's no binding trust between the two parties. Sad but inevitable.13:06
psycho_oreosYeah I heard that stock fsck was really old, outdated. It also doesn't really help when it comes to flash devices.13:06
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psycho_oreosThere's also people who get slack.. once they become accustomed to one thing, they tend to stick to the old saying,"You can't teach old dog new tricks.".13:07
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drathirpsycho_oreos: that also can be true... In past microsoft was only one choice in company use now that changed and also bigger companies decide to migrate on linux os that good thing for me that the ppl see alternatives and good sides of changes to much cheap solutions...13:10
psycho_oreosI also partially agree with what Lava_Croft said, nokia is also evil but it was really their own fault to begin with that they ousted their own CEO in favour of ex-Microsoft staff to be their CEO. This in turn, turned nokia upside down.13:10
psycho_oreosdrathir, there's always that sentimental/reluctance factor which I believe is the most unsettling causes of why people tend to stick to mainstream stuff.13:14
drathiryes that also nokia bad that choice microsoft, but if they do bad phones maybe think to implement bad os... But i think maybe microsoft offer financial help to nokia beacme more monopolistic os and nokia chose microsoft than decide to develop linux one...13:14
drathiroh i mean microsoft will help nokia to microsoft beacme more monopolistic one os on the phones...13:16
psycho_oreosSadly regardless of the outcome, the sales figures speak for themselves.13:17
Lava_Croftits a conspiracy!!!~13:17
keriopsycho_oreos: fyi, i'd avoid the stock mke2fs13:17
psycho_oreosAlso speaking of TF2 and Mac vs PC (yes I know this is now old news) but I can't help thinking about this:
keriocssu updated it, now it's ok13:17
psycho_oreoskerio, nice! well I guess I'm covered in that case. I have had CSSU-Testing enabled for awhile now and just recently put on CSSU-Thumb.13:18
drathirnot conspiracy but more like lets help nokia why not we take more from this help and nothing to lose... Anyway that one dont really work sell isnt so great...13:20
Lava_Croftand thats special and noteworthy because?13:21
psycho_oreosIt was probably what nokia's board of directors want as well.. to see nokia act like a sinking ship. Mind you they really needed to axe some of their product lines but I personally think they've made the wrong choices.13:21
Lava_Croftbecause its MS, right?13:21
Lava_CroftOPK just ruined Nokia13:21
psycho_oreosAhh yeah the ousted CEO.13:23
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Lava_Croftpeople hate on Elop for doing what is natural for Elop13:25
drathirone of the thing, other if microsoft isnt good on pc will be isnt good on phones... Why cpu usage on idle is much more on windows than linux?  On the phone that should be too one good that arm procesors can almost shutdown the cores...13:25
Lava_Croftwhile OPK is the one really to blame:)13:25
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Lava_Croftdrathir: ever used a windows phone device?13:26
psycho_oreosIts sort of hard to justify the blame on OPK when at the time OPK was CEO and it was high time to introduce maemo platform.13:26
Lava_Croftfor all the shit thats in there, windows phone is very lightweight and fast13:26
drathirthe ideologic of linux one os is more closer to me than windows that a common always for me that linux > windows...13:26
Lava_Croftmuch more so than androidn and ios13:26
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: not just that13:26
Lava_Croftunder OPK is was kind of decided that nokia should focus on feature phones13:26
jon_ydrathir: System Idle Process taking up most of the cpu time! :)13:26
Lava_Croftit was*13:26
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, aka N-series vs E-series?13:27
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: cheaper even13:27
Lava_Croftunder his lead they also ignored the iphone until it was too late:)13:27
drathirLava_Croft: yes using with wm that horrible to use and change something...13:27
drathirmean windows mobile13:27
Lava_Croftwindows mobile is deprecated since a couple of years13:28
Lava_Croftwindows phone might lack features and app, but the OS itself is un-MS nice13:28
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, though N900 was a little late in a bid to rival against iPhone. It nonetheless made an impact in the aftermath, even niche in impact (to me) its noteworthy.13:28
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: internal struggles13:28
Lava_Croftit should have released much sooner13:29
Lava_Croftaccording to the stuff written about it13:29
Lava_Croftactually n800 orso should have had the gsm radio13:29
Lava_Croftinstead of wait for n90013:29
jon_yn800 wasn't gsm?13:29
Lava_Croftits just what happens in a big company where you have several teams competing against each other13:29
keriothe n810 was wimax, but that was it13:29
keriono gsm13:30
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, at the same time the same thing could be said how OPK was promoted to CEO. Had that been a mistake to begin with, its even more worse how the sales figures shows that n9 (being the burning platform) outsold lumia phones.13:30
Lava_Croftsymbian team apparently was scared of OSSO13:30
Lava_Croftso they pushed hard to not get a GSM radio into the n80013:30
jon_ymeans I can't use even voice in Europe?13:30
Lava_Croftalso, Symbian team always got the awesome hardware13:30
psycho_oreosjon_y, there was a hack someone did I believe on N810 to make it have phone capabilities.13:30
Lava_CroftOSSO had to do with shit subcontractors13:30
drathirjon_y: on linux cpu usage is much lower on idle than on windows also fan works and temp of cpu is different...13:30
jon_ydrathir: CPU Idle Process :)13:31
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: N9 probably outsold it because of all the hype around it, i think13:31
Lava_Croft'the last real nokia' bla bla:)13:31
Lava_Crofta lot of stuff around the N9 is just blabla from people who dont even have an N913:31
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, even though there was hardly any marketing for it to begin with.13:31
Lava_Croftin reality, its lovely hardware and a crippled unfinished OS13:31
jon_yI do not consider the N9 as a successor to N90013:31
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: there was, just not from the usual channels:)13:31
jon_yit was an iphone clone13:31
Lava_Croftclone is too harsh13:31
Lava_Croftits a different way of looking at the iphone13:32
Lava_Croftcloning is what android did13:32
Lava_CroftN9 really tried to redefine certain things, and succeeded at some13:32
jon_ythey're all clones, all touch screen and no hard keyboard13:32
Lava_Croftthat makes it a clone?13:32
jon_yAndroid just had more clones13:32
psycho_oreosYeah I personally believe they (nokia) deliberately crippled it in both sales (as a failed attempt) and as a consumer-end product (in a bid to widen the gap between developers vs end-users).13:32
Lava_Croftfulltouch = clone?13:32
Lava_Croftyou are being way too friendly on apple now13:32
jon_yyes, and the icons array13:32
Lava_Croftbut the icon array was way older13:33
Lava_Croftever owned a Palm device?13:33
Lava_CroftI had that icon array before the year 200013:33
Lava_Crofton my Palm IIIxe13:33
* psycho_oreos had a Palm m505.13:33
jon_yyes I owned a series 60 phone, it had an icon array too13:33
jon_ythough I can't help that when everything is put together, it behaves nearly the same as an iphone13:34
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* jon_y not being kind to apple13:34
jon_yI don't have any idevices after all13:34
Lava_Croftmy n9 doesnt behave like my wife's iphone at all13:34
psycho_oreosIts more symbian than iphone imo. Symbian had this strict sense of signed install files which was what they tried to push onto the "meego instance" n9.13:35
jon_yjust that all the phones these days look the same13:35
Lava_Croftjust holding it in your hand and you know its different13:35
Lava_Croftiphone being a cold device13:35
Lava_Croftwhile the n9 is warm13:35
jon_ythe iphone talks back :)13:35
drathirLava_Croft: symbian for me s60v3 was the great one... New one not be that good i think...13:36
jon_yI had S60 v113:36
Lava_Crofti only had a 5510 before the n90013:36
jon_yI was sad when apps were no longer supported13:36
SysaxedNokia E70 - greatest symbian device!13:37
jon_y6630, had constant mysterious reboots13:37
Lava_Croftnokia sent my a n8 once13:37
jon_yonce while I was texting13:37
Sysaxedjust because of the keyboard13:37
Lava_Croftit was a nightmare13:37
psycho_oreosI had n95-1, that phone pissed me so much that I would have decimated it had it not been one software that kept me sane.13:37
Lava_Croftjust all buy  a Jolla13:37
Lava_Croftits the sanest thing to do13:37
Lava_Croftalso the right thing!13:37
Sysaxedhere is very funny article about e70 :DD
jon_yI need to travel to another country to get one :(13:38
* psycho_oreos would rather get N950 anyday over Jolla :p13:38
* jon_y too :)13:38
Lava_Croftare you silly?13:38
psycho_oreoshardware keyboard ftw.13:38
Lava_Croftso what13:38
Lava_Croftits crap HW with an unfinished OS13:38
drathirhow about iphone vs n9 hardware are similar?13:38
Lava_Croftn950 will probably have HW failures before anything13:38
jon_yhardware keyboards are best keyboards13:38
Lava_Croftthe screen on the n950... ouch13:39
psycho_oreosThe differences lies in personal preferences :p13:39
drathirn70 have amazing camera...13:39
Lava_Crofti dont see how an N9 with hw keyboard would be better:)13:39
Lava_Croftits still that weirdo harmattan stuff13:39
psycho_oreosso? N900 has some hardware issues. Nothing wrong.13:39
Lava_Croftbut n900 has maemo513:39
Lava_Croftinfinitely better than harmattan13:39
jon_yyes, and .deb files too13:39
jon_y.deb > .rpm :)13:40
Lava_Crofti couldnt really care less about the package manager13:40
drathirkb nightmare is e52 in my opinion...13:40
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psycho_oreosYeah open-kernel harmattan maybe. I still like/prefer newer devices to *still* have hardware keyboard. I have had my dose with n9 amongst a few android phones, not quite my taste I'm afraid. If Jolla remains to have no hardware keyboard, I will simply not buy it.13:40
Lava_Croftfor jolla to release a device with hw keyboard, they do need to sell enough of their first device13:41
Lava_Crofthw keyboards are a nice market13:41
psycho_oreosCall me old school, but that's how I roll.. I want hardware keyboard from now on for any phones/devices. I get frustrated everytime when I couldn't simply do certain things on touchscreen.13:42
psycho_oreosYeah niche but that's how I am.13:42
Lava_Crofthave fun finding one13:42
Lava_Crofti also prefer HW keyboards, but im also a realist13:42
psycho_oreosIndeed, but not likely that I'll regret.13:43
Lava_Croftmost folks dont want a HW keyboard, so manufacturers dont really make em13:43
* drathir too only hw kb one phones...13:43
psycho_oreosYeah the majority doesn't but that's because (partially) of iPhone style.13:43
Lava_Croftthats because most folks just dont need it13:43
Lava_Croftthe onscreen keyboards are good enough13:43
psycho_oreosNo, they just think it adds un-needed bulk.13:43
Lava_Croftmost people dont have to do cd ~/.config/randomapp13:43
Lava_Croftfor them, it IS unneeded bulk:)13:44
psycho_oreosMost people will too not want to know how their device works. They only care if it works and if it doesn't work they'll simply ask why.13:44
psycho_oreosIts inherently how lazy average people are.13:44
psycho_oreosNothing more than a herd of white sheep.13:44
drathirfor me the great one kb have BB...13:44
Lava_Croftits not about laziness13:44
psycho_oreosNo it is.13:44
Lava_Croftam i lazy when i dont care how my car works?13:44
psycho_oreoslaziness and ignorance.13:44
Lava_Croftbut i just want to use it to drive from A to B?13:44
Lava_Croftso for me to not be lazy in your eyes, i should spend time to find out how each of the products i own works?13:45
Lava_Croftmost people just dont have the time for that you know13:45
psycho_oreosAnd to get ripped off by shady mechanics because you aren't apt with it.13:45
psycho_oreosYeah that's how people are.13:45
Lava_Croftthats because its not needed13:45
Lava_Croftyou dont need to know how a microwave works in order to use it13:45
Lava_Crofthas zero to do with being lazy13:45
psycho_oreosNo its because there's a market for those who don't care.13:45
Lava_Croftno, its because its not important13:46
psycho_oreosThen you find people wondering why things break and then they realised.. oh! its in the manual..13:46
Lava_Croftif someone wants to find out, they will13:46
Lava_Croftbut saying that people are lazy for not wanting to find out, thats just broken logic13:46
psycho_oreosNot much different from what I said :p13:46
Lava_Croftexcept you dismiss people13:47
psycho_oreosI actually meant laziness and/or ignorance. Not just laziness on its own.13:47
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Lava_Crofti guess im ignorant then for not caring how our car works on the inside13:47
Lava_Croftand with me the entire population of this world, including yourself13:47
drathirwhen i have symbian device i can move all the files and app config to clean install good to know how something works...13:47
Lava_Croftyou dont know how each of your products work on the inside:)13:47
psycho_oreosNot unless if you are interested.13:47
Lava_Croftinterest is something that you should not force onto people13:47
psycho_oreosHence those wanting to know will have differing prefences.13:48
Lava_Croftsaying they are lazy and ignorant for not having your particular interests13:48
Lava_Croftthats just broken13:48
psycho_oreosAhh but that's what manufacturers think, no? to aim for the majority and ignore the niche?13:48
Lava_Croftthats because they have to make money13:48
Lava_Croftniche markets in general dont make you a lot of money13:48
Lava_Croftthats why they are a niche market:)13:48
drathirbut why disallow interested ppl do that like it is on android eg.13:48
Lava_Croftwhy demand they do it like you want?13:49
psycho_oreosIts not like niche market will always remain being a niche market.13:49
Lava_Crofthw keyboards will remain niche13:49
Lava_Croftdevices get bigger screens, onscreen keyboards grow in size and usability13:49
Lava_Croftnothing much you can do about it13:49
Lava_Croftbesides maybe force people HW keyboards down their throats13:49
Lava_Croftand say thats the right thing13:50
Lava_Croftbut i dont think you want that:)13:50
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korhojoawhy are hw keyboards niche?13:50
korhojoathey're awesome!13:50
psycho_oreosI'd rather laugh at people who struggle to make use of a device when their digitizer is broken, or their screen is broken. That they can no longer use touch screen.13:50
Lava_Croftoh, niche not nice13:50
Lava_Croftthey are awesome indeeds13:50
Lava_Croftbut thats just how we think about it:)13:51
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: thats just silly to say13:51
Lava_Croftlaughing at poeple for that reason just silly13:51
Lava_Croftyou know what your logic is?13:51
Lava_Croftimagine you sell vacuum cleaners from door to door13:51
Lava_Croftyou ring the bell of my door and i open the door13:51
drathirbut good to eg few models have hw kb like bb do that because know a lot of ppl like hw kb and dont think to abadon? mean stop out the hw kb ...13:51
Lava_Croftinstead of starting to talk about good your vacuum cleaner is13:51
korhojoai have a e7 with a broken screen. hdmi still works though13:51
Lava_Croftyou start to mock me for buying the bacuum cleaner i own currently13:51
Lava_Croftand start to tell me how horrible it is13:51
Lava_Croftif you think thats an effective sales pitch13:52
Lava_Croftyou are wrong13:52
Lava_Croftthis is exactly the sales pitch as tried out by the entire linux community for the past 20 years orso13:52
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, neither does the former case that you mentioned would work most of the time :p remember that the law of the averages still apply.13:52
Lava_Croftpoint at something not Linux and start to talk about how horrible it is13:52
Lava_Croftwether its software, hardware, whatever13:53
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psycho_oreosDidn't microsoft actually at one stage did that? point and laugh how crap linux was? or wait microsoft had better strategy at the time?13:53
Lava_Croftnow you do it again13:54
Lava_Croftits hard to get of a habit, aint it13:54
Lava_Croftinstead of talk about why your thing is so good13:54
Lava_Croftyou start to talk about why the other thing is so bad13:54
psycho_oreosI was stating what I read in the news.13:54
drathirlinux isnt perfect but dont advertise like windows the perfect one...13:55
psycho_oreosOr are you deliberately ignoring what I said that I saw what microsoft did in the past? maybe they hid it from you?13:55
Lava_Croftso wait13:56
Lava_Crofti dont get this13:56
Lava_Croftbecause MS did it, its good for you to do it?13:56
Lava_Croftor what?13:56
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psycho_oreosI didn't say it was good for me to do it just because microsoft did it but I'm sure it was done before and that the methods these days employed by the same mob are no different to what they were.13:57
psycho_oreosIn other words, simplying implying, there's no "magic bullet" for a perfect advertisment.13:57
psycho_oreosThe case _always_ boils down to the law of averages. Regardless of _however_ you choose to tackle it.13:58
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Lava_Crofta very important rule is marketing is that you don't mock your client for making a certain choice that is not the choice you would want the client to make14:00
drathiranyway other  things is that linux dont advertise so much because dont have point of do that dont make a money like windows from sales...14:00
Lava_Croftwe all know how MS'a anti-linux whining ended up14:00
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Lava_CroftLinux rules the world except the desktop14:00
Lava_Croftand which part of linux had the most vocal 'supporters'?14:01
Lava_Croftyeah, the desktop14:01
Lava_Croftexactly the folks that constantly raged about why others were bad, instead of raging about why linux is good:)14:01
Lava_Croftif your marketing scheme doesnt allow you to inform people of the good sides of your product, you might as well just give up :)14:01
psycho_oreosLike any other fan base its more or less the same.14:01
Lava_Croftmore or less, except not quite14:02
Lava_Croftlinux folks, like apple folks are for different reasons overly religious14:02
Lava_Croftzealous if you like14:02
Lava_Croftthis is harmful for linux14:02
psycho_oreosand it isn't harmful for Apple folks?14:02
Sysaxed(13:45:58) psycho_oreos: No its because there's a market for those who don't care. -- and it is too big :(14:02
Lava_Croftpsycho_oreos: Apple is a very special case:)14:03
Lava_Croftas we all know:)14:03
Lava_Crofti dont know many companies that can pull of the shit apple does and still be taken seriously:D14:03
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, yeah not so special now :p14:03
Lava_Croftoh, they still are:D14:03
Lava_Croftbut yeah, its shrinking14:04
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psycho_oreosSysaxed, proportions are irrelevant to this case. You don't see one embedded OS fitting for any embedded devices.14:05
drathirfor now the best perfect os to discover will be that who can handle all other os not vm and can switch between them running...14:07
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drathirbut this is not possible to share real resources in that way i think...14:10
Sysaxedthat guy is amazing :O14:10
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drathirSysaxed: from the name of site that should be little scare to join on that titled site...14:12
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drathirSysaxed: im joke ofc...14:13
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psycho_oreosOh wow, I'm surprised I still get thanked for taking my frustrations out *laffs*:
Iridosventing steam can be useful? :D14:20
Iridoswait, there's no magic in the n900? I want me money back!14:21
psycho_oreosToo bad, you've invested in the "nokia-support-a-maemo-cause" foundation. All charitable monies are non-refundable ;p14:23
Iridosoh, and thanks for the usb-network link... will have to see if i still have a usb connector after the weekend when I plan to solder it to fix it firmly, though :P14:24
Iridospsycho_oreos, I think you're lying and it is magical... I can put it on top of a radio and the radio starts playing the songs from the n900... that's clearly magical14:25
psycho_oreosIridos, only *cough* Apple *cough* fans would say its magical *snickers*14:26
IridosI'm not much into fruit14:27
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psycho_oreosYou naughty carnivore :p14:30
Iridosanyway, nah, they wouldn't... the guys in the shops are geniuses, not magicians, right?14:30
psycho_oreosNo, they're just educated :p.14:30
IridosI'm actually vegetarian for over 15 years now14:30
psycho_oreosA vegetarian whom doesn't like fruit? a bit rare I suppose.14:30
Iridoshealth stuff... I guess I like fruit but react badly to most for the last couple of years14:31
psycho_oreos*shrugs* maybe a diet change is required. Not a doctor.14:33
psycho_oreosSysaxed, just finished reading that link. LOL14:34
psycho_oreosSysaxed, will you marry me? :D14:34
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Sysaxedhahahah :)14:39
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psycho_oreosSysaxed, :p lol14:56
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psycho_oreosAny of you use ovimaps? trying to see if there's newer maps that works with N900. One of my N900 has a broken cities directory but thankfully the other seems to have a complete (outdated) version.15:06
LjL-Alpsuh, aren't ovimaps maps online? O.o15:06
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psycho_oreosThey are but: <--- sort of made me hesitant.15:07
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psycho_oreosHmm the latest post on that thread has the link to the latest hosted ones. I guess I might as well look at those.15:09
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Lithdkdang that's a lot of users in the maemo chat15:22
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LithdkSo I got a n900 from hong kong, made a post on it TMO, but I just recieved it. Put in the sim, put in the battery, put in the charger and it did a shaky thing with a dim nokia logo for a while. Now the LED is just yellow/orange'ish with a dim nokia logo and it wont boot. Do I just need to wait an hour or so for battery to charge before I can boot?15:28
quackquackreinstall the firmware?15:29
quackquackfactory reset?15:29
quackquackno idea15:29
Lithdkwell this is my first smartphone and the "updating the firmwire" is kinda lacking in the how-to department15:30
infobotfrom memory, maemo-flashing is
Lithdkthe wiki page shows one flasher command while the guy on youtube uses three. First to flash rootfs, then emmc, then rootfs again15:31
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Lithdkwith -f -R at the third rootfs flash15:32
psycho_oreosJudging from what you wrote initially, I'm guessing your N900's battery was really flat (or at least around ~5% charge).15:32
LithdkAight, I'll just leave it in for a while15:33
psycho_oreosDo you have another phone/device that is capable of charging BL-5J and/or you happen to have another BL-5J that has more than 5% charge?15:33
psycho_oreosHmm :/ I guess in that case its best to hope that the device does not go into bootloops whilst trying to boot up normally.15:35
LithdkI think it has. It's doing a shaky thing with the LED coming on and off and nokia logo coming on and off15:36
psycho_oreosIf you see nokia logo showing up and then it resets (showing the exact same thing after a few seconds). Then that's bootloop.15:37
psycho_oreosThat's going to be a little problematic.15:37
LithdkFantastic. Should I try flashing?15:38
psycho_oreosFlashing won't help, because 1) your battery level is too low, 2) even if you force flashing, you will only leave it in its bricked state (not fully bricked though).15:38
LithdkSo I just need to get a charged battery?15:39
Wizzupstart with that15:39
psycho_oreosI was contemplating on whether you can flash only the kernel and see if it will boot with standard kernel in a bid to get it into normal charging state and try to get the battery to a decent power level.15:39
psycho_oreosA charged battery is the most ideal, then a phone or device that can charge BL-5J is preferrable. Attempting to flash only the kernel portion would probably be the last resort.15:40
LithdkAlright, I have a phone repair store down the road, can ask them to test with a BL-5J that is charged. If it boots Im good and just need an external battery charger?15:41
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psycho_oreosIt is hard to predetermine what is actually causing the bootloop. If its more than just a mismatch kernel issue, you need to reflash kernel, if its mismatched kernel modules, you will need to reflash the whole device (and at least 30% charge is required). If it can boot with another battery then yeah external charger maybe needed.15:43
psycho_oreosLithdk, you wouldn't happen to own a n95 would you?15:44
LithdkNah, this is my first real smartphone15:45
psycho_oreos*nods* MohammadAG once mentioned before that n95 can charge BL-5J batteries. I happen to own one and verified that it can charge BL-5J.15:45
LithdkNot really an option :/15:46
psycho_oreosYeah its hard to say, but I guess it might not be a bad idea to buy a substitute battery whilst you are at that phone repair store. The previous owner probably tortured that poor N900 before selling it.15:46
LithdkAight I will try the store :-) Thank you for quick response15:47
psycho_oreosThere is another way but I personally don't think such an idea would be wise, if its not done properly you may risk any issues arising from it.15:47
MohammadAGI used it as a spare battery charger for quite a while :P15:47
psycho_oreosLithdk, all the best! hopefully you can get that N900 to work (also hoping that it is a genuine N900 as well).15:48
psycho_oreoso.O he responds :D lol hehe.15:48
psycho_oreosSpeaking of it, I have a few BL-5J that I may hook it up to {re-}charge, most fake and maybe one genuine BL-5J15:49
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psycho_oreosfreemangordon, ping!15:51
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Lava_CroftDT-33 from Nokia16:05
Lava_Croftcheapo external charger16:05
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LithdkIm back :P16:06
psycho_oreosThe verdict?16:06
LithdkSo the guy the phone repair store determined it was a software error and he couldn't help me because the software so old and no longer supported and referred me to a store a 3 hour drive away16:06
psycho_oreosI just stumbled upon your thread heh, been handing out "Thanks!" to a few good posts.16:06
Lava_Crofthow did he determine that16:06
psycho_oreosAlso he doesn't happen to have a spare BL-5J?16:07
LithdkSo I asked the hot front-desk girl to ask the guy in the back if I just needed to flash it and she said that he said "Yeah but the software isnt supported anymore"16:07
LithdkWell I didn't really get to see 'cos I was interacting with the girl who was going back to the backroom16:07
LithdkBut he determined it was a software error, so guess he must've checked the battery16:08
psycho_oreosYet he couldn't offer to sell/lend you a BL-5J so you could see the result yourself.. I smell somewhat shady business here.16:08
Lava_Croftor just uninterested16:09
Lava_Crofttime spent vs money gained16:09
Lava_Croftorder a spare battery from polarcell orso16:09
Lava_Croftfor 12euros16:09
LithdkOh, european company?16:10
Lava_Crofti live in NL, so it was quite handy16:10
psycho_oreosOne thing I can say for certain (I'm sure other N900 owners, whom bought their N900 brand new) the N900 from factory would at least be half charged, not fully drained. That's just despicable.16:10
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LithdkCan't find a link to PolarCell, only amazon16:11
psycho_oreosYeah there was a German shop (or at least German site) that I saw was getting commended on chat here.16:11
LithdkYeah it's from china so probably fake or refurbished.16:11
Lithdkbut a read a few reviews on them, other than printed text on the box and on the phone case the phone should be pretty much the same16:12
psycho_oreosThe last thing you want to hear is that its a fake N900. First of all I don't think there'll be anyone able to help you with it as it will be running hacked symbian OS.16:12
psycho_oreos <--- here was the shop that I heard two "thumbs up" for.16:14
psycho_oreosYes. There was also a youtube video about it, trust me you wouldn't want to end up with fake N900. Its like throwing money into bin hoping to find gold.16:14
Lava_Crofti got mine via ebay16:14
Lithdk <----- How about that?16:14
kworkhey does anyone know can you reset / read n900 secuirty code when the device is already locked ?16:14
Lava_CroftLithdk: thats the same battery16:14
Lava_Croftits a BL5J clone at around 1500mah16:15
Lava_Croftfree shipping too16:15
LithdkOkay, I will try that. Thanks for all the help.16:15
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Lava_Croftno problem16:15
Lava_Croftthose polarcells are i think the easier ones to get for europeans16:15
psycho_oreoskwork, depends but in most case I doubt it.16:15
kworkpsycho_oreos: or atleast get the data out from there before reflashing16:15
kworkmanaged to lock my damn device while drunk, and i have no idea of the security code (tried the default ones)16:16
psycho_oreoskwork, if you happen to be able to boot into rescueOS or something like that, otherwise no.16:16
kworkpsycho_oreos: hmmmz okey thanks ill check it out, description seems promising16:17
psycho_oreosLithdk, I sometimes wonder what else would that seller chuck in with that N900. For giving you that much extra work sometimes it might be interesting to try and dig in (yes I know it sounds dirty, but..)16:17
psycho_oreoskwork, if you don't know what it is, chances are you don't have it installed which means no chance.16:17
kworkpsycho_oreos: yeah most likely i dont have it installed, i was hope-ing maybe i can just boot off from mmc with it or smt16:18
LithdkWell, he has a lot of very good reviews on eBay (not that I know if that means anything, first time eBay user) and is a "top-rated seller". Also a lot of people have had positive returns with him.16:19
psycho_oreosLithdk, <-- exact same video that I saw.. this is the horror story you don't want to see.16:19
psycho_oreoskwork, doubt it..16:19
LithdkI think he's a pretty good guy just trying to run a store catering to the outside world as best as he can with his chineese ways of retailing16:19
kworki guess i have to launch an human run bruteforce on it then :P16:20
Lava_Croftfriend of mine bought about 15 Java iphones in china16:20
LithdkMine doesnt show that logo. I had a bright white screen _once_ with a blue nokia logo in the middle. No hands and it was in the other mode, vertical/horizontical/whatever it is16:20
Lava_Croftthey look like iphones, but run some funny java OS16:20
Lava_Croftawesome devices16:21
psycho_oreosLithdk, *shrugs* there are some good sellers but there's dime a dozen shady sellers who'll happily take your money instead thinking you are some fool. Call me a skeptic but I'd try to get the purchase verified through physical means before I lay down my hard cash.16:22
psycho_oreoskwork, pretty much inevitably, that will take lots of time I'm afraid.16:22
LithdkI can just put in a paypal dispute16:23
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, yeah fake symbian (and now androids).. *ugh* gives me the ****** thinking about clones.16:23
LithdkI'm fairly certain I can get my money back if the phone is not as described16:23
Lava_Croftno, that wasnt symbian16:23
Lava_Croftit was some java shit i never saw in my life16:24
psycho_oreos*nods*, caveat emptor is all I can say.16:24
psycho_oreosNever really heard of Java being used on fake phones. I guess that is also now a viable option *vomits*.16:24
Lava_Croftthis was several years ago16:25
LithdkSo when I take the charger out and hit the power button I get a bright white display with a blue nokia logo in the middle. Then it shuts down. Putting the charger in puts it in a reboot loop16:25
Lava_Croftat least the nokia logo sounds legit:D16:26
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psycho_oreosAhh, may have been roughly around the time where symbian OS were hacked to make it work on cloned devices as well I suppose.. or older o.O still yeah it sickens me the whole thought.16:26
LithdkIt looks nothing like the fake symbian nokia logo from youtibe16:26
LithdkI will order the other battery and test it out. I have a 14 days to return the phone for a full refund16:27
Lava_Croftthat shows n900 boot16:27
psycho_oreosIt also seems like it acts like a real N900 would act I suppose as well. The real N900 would have three LED "bulbs" to indicate device status. If you see amber and green light (maybe green for just a short second) then I guess that would be the real LED it has.16:27
Lava_Croftversus some other phone, but meh16:27
LithdkYeah mine looks like that, also with the blue light16:28
Lava_Croftyou really want a charged battery and reflash it16:28
Lava_Croftbasically the only way to be sure16:28
LithdkLava_Croft did the battery you ordered come charged?16:29
Lava_Croftbut i also charged it myself in external charger16:29
Lava_Croftbut it did boot my n900 before that:)16:29
DrCodehi all16:29
DrCodehow can I play or had folders into playlist16:29
psycho_oreosI'm personally moreso curious to see what the seller left with the device seeing as how they sold the N900 flat to you.16:30
DrCodemaemo default player sort all my songs16:30
DrCodealso I can't see utf8, I need to convert my song or somthig?16:30
Lava_Croftthe top menu in media player lets you choose between how to display16:30
LithdkIm ordering a new battery now. As long as it gets here within 14 days I got enough time to make a dispute16:30
Lava_Croftsongs, albums, artists, genres16:30
Lava_CroftLithdk: it was here within a week iirc16:31
Lava_Croftmost time was taken up by tranferring the money16:31
DrCodebut no folder option16:31
DrCodeI want to play 3 folders16:31
Lava_Croftthere is none16:31
DrCodeI see16:31
psycho_oreosOMP I think might be faster at adding a whole bunch. Not sure about "folders" though.16:31
Lava_Crofttry kmplayer16:31
Lava_Croftor just mplayer16:31
DrCodeI have mplayer16:32
Lava_Crofttime to learn about mplayer then!16:33
Lava_Croft(which isnt here!)16:33
* Lava_Croft chuckles16:33
DrCodeI can't see utf-8 songs16:33
psycho_oreosIt might even be fs issue.16:35
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Lava_Croftapart from this interview being interesting....16:37
Lava_Croftthat lawyer is a fucking living statue16:37
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Lithdkso 15 euro for the 1500 battery and that's with shipping. seems fair16:38
Lava_Croftand they sent me the friendliest of emails too16:39
Lava_Croftreporting on the status16:39
Lava_Croftfriendlier than usual emails of this type:)16:39
Lithdk:P Haha16:39
Lava_Crofthey, that goes a long way in such an unpersonal business16:39
LithdkYeah :P16:40
LithdkIm In Denmark so shouldnt take more than a week to get if it only took a week to NL16:40
Lava_Croftyeah, cant take much longer16:40
Lava_Crofti paid by wire transfer too, paypal is faster i reckon16:41
LithdkThey already got my payment :P16:41
Lava_Croftthen it will probably be sooner than with me:)16:41
LithdkWould be awesome16:41
Lava_Croftrest assured, i broke my own n900 and had to wait first a week for the external charger16:43
LithdkI'd really like a chance to try out this phone. If I find out it doesnt work I have to send it back for a refund and order a new one :P16:43
Lava_Croftthen another week for the extra battery16:43
Lava_Croftand then it still didnt work! :D16:43
Lithdkpretty expensive phone by then :P16:45
Lava_Crofti sent it back to nokia, got into a fight with them and ended up with double the n900s16:46
Lava_Croftso im not complaining16:46
Lithdknice :P16:47
LithdkHaha awesome16:52
psycho_oreosI got some freebies whilst scavaging for any useful remnants within an already formatted fs. I'm sure someone here got a nasty shock when I wrote that I actually did that.16:56
LithdkI got my phone charging with the PC connector right now. Dim logo nokia with yellow/orange'ish. sudo fdisk -ls and mount wont detect it. Good, bad or neutral?16:56
psycho_oreosNeutral, it wouldn't matter.. in fact kernel probably won't see anything (on PC side) because the device (N900) has not told the PC what sort of a device it is.16:57
Lava_Croftwell, it might charge16:57
Lava_Crofti dont know all the silly things surround when and when not the n900 will charge16:58
LithdkWell, that would be bad? Probably means I cant flash it either if the new battery doesnt work16:58
Lava_Croftyou can16:58
psycho_oreosThe first thing PC will say via dmesg is something is plugged into USB, then it goes into identification mode.. any enumerable volumes will then be made visible through dmesg and soon after fdisk -l.16:58
Lava_CroftLithdk: flashing requires you to connect a shutdown n900 to the PC via usb, while keeping 'u' pressed16:58
psycho_oreosYou can't flash it normally, you could try cold flashing or something but you have to be quick and prepared with only ~5% charge.16:59
psycho_oreosI wasn't aware that was available I thought you could only cold flash and hope.16:59
Lava_Crofti might VERY well be wrong!16:59
LithdkYeah I caught that, just thought it linux would recognize it17:00
Lava_Crofti once solved bootloop by flashing pr1.2 kernel17:00
Lava_Croftafter which flashing 1.3 rootfs did succeed17:00
psycho_oreosI'm pretty certain NOLO would only charge it to ~5% level. I sorta saw it happening one stage with my other N900 and I had to boot into backupmenu to force charge it.17:00
LithdkBut I still got my old phone. Gonna wait with flashing till after I tried the new battery17:00
Lava_Croftsafe bet17:01
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psycho_oreosLinux would recognise it if the other end started responding. If the other end (meaning the N900) doesn't respond, the PC will just probably continue supplying power or whatever.17:01
Lava_Croftat least there are several ways you could possible flash the n90017:02
Lava_Croftso you arent out of options just yet17:02
psycho_oreosCold flashing isn't discussed but flashing kernel is viable:
quackquacksigngp can i pass my keys to x-loader?17:03
quackquacklets say if i find my jtag pads/pins17:04
infobotcold is, like, a network sniffer lke tcpdump with support for lots of devices and protocols17:04
Lava_Croftcant infobot list topics to you in privmsg17:04
psycho_oreosYeah it probably could.. hmm17:04
Lava_Croftsesame btw:)17:04
quackquackokay whatever. ;-)17:05
infobotcoldflash is probably (jacekowski's instructions), or
Lava_Croftnice, it has a proper wiki page:D17:05
quackquackmy question is how on earth will i sign my god damn x-loader once i jtag?17:05
Lava_CroftLithdk: you could try flasher -i17:05
Lava_Croftjust to see if it recognizes your device:)17:05
LithdkYeah I just thought about that Lava17:05
quackquackbecause i will get my 8 channel logic sniffer.17:06
Lava_Croftfunny how you dont think of silly stuff like this at first, goddamnit17:06
quackquackand then if i happen to jtag and i extract the keys.17:06
Lava_Croftflasher -i is the single command ive probably used the most with flasher17:06
psycho_oreosquackquack, I am not famililar with topics on JTAG I'm afraid.. you'll need to talk to somebody like DocScrutinizer05 (who isn't here).17:06
quackquackany idea people how will i sign x-loader?17:06
Lava_Croftdoc is taking a well-earned break17:06
Lava_Croftand a much needed one17:06
quackquackmy bad.17:06
psycho_oreosHe was here a few days back but disappeared *shrugs*17:07
Lava_Crofthe sounded like he was in need of a break17:07
Lava_Crofthavent been easy times for him, concerning maemo17:07
psycho_oreosYeah that I definitely recall, but then I saw him saying some random stuff here and there before disappearing.17:07
Lava_Croftas long as he returns refreshed17:08
Lava_Crofthe is rather invaluable17:08
psycho_oreosPali && freemangordon might be able to help (but this again is far cry as I know they mainly deal with kernel stuff, not NOLO/X-Loader let alone JTAG).17:08
psycho_oreosI think most of the core staff are rather invaluable :)17:09
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Paliit is not possible to sign something new...17:09
Paliunless you know how to hack aes-256bit17:09
psycho_oreosWell there you go :)17:10
quackquackhave a look17:10
quackquacki am not interested in nolo17:10
Palisigning key of our n900 is somewhere in nokia...17:10
quackquacki need to re-sign the x-loader.bin.ift/mlo17:11
quackquackPali, have a look at that site. it says something else.17:11
Lithdkshould I run it as sudo?17:11
Lithdkerror claiming USb interface. operation not permitted17:11
Paliquackquack: it that info for omap3 n900???17:11
psycho_oreosLithdk, yes ideally.17:12
quackquackbut logic is same isnt it?17:12
LithdkAlright :P17:12
quackquackpali it has jtag labelled. and i will try to find the jtag in n900.17:13
Lithdkprinted this: "USB device found found at bus 001, device address 107. Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2204. NOLO version 1.4.14. Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR017:13
Paliquackquack: I'm not doing cryptoanalyze, but somebody wrote that nokia used aes-256 encryption17:14
* psycho_oreos thinks its fundamentally designed (linux is) is to only give root the access to raw hardware/interfaces. Flashing requires raw access, hence root is required.17:14
psycho_oreosLithdk, that definitely sounds like a genuine N900 :)17:14
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Paliquackquack: what I know is only how to do normal & cold flashing...17:15
psycho_oreosLithdk, I'd try flashing kernel first, see if you can get it to charge quickly in "ACT_DEAD" mode.17:15
quackquackPali, efuse in omap3x is standard doesnt matter if nokia or motorola droid.17:15
PaliI wrote alternative cold-flasher17:15
quackquackPali, i thank you for that.17:15
quackquackthats incredibly handy tool.17:15
quackquacki am going to use it to flash x-loader ;-) Pali so TIA. :-)17:16
psycho_oreosPali is also working on 0xFFFF amongst other nifty kernel tools :D17:16
LithdkYeah but now that we are 90% certain it's a genuine n900, we'll wait for the charger to arrive. Got a week off work so I got time17:16
quackquack Pali17:16
LithdkI mean battery*17:16
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Paliyes, motorola omap boards have same structure of x-loader image17:16
psycho_oreosLithdk, *shrugs* I'd say there's no easy way to permanently brick N900. With NOLO/X-Loader, its virtually impossible to brick the device easily. So it might be an idea/incentive to maybe try kernel flashing and then cold flashing.17:17
quackquackthen Pali we can change a lot of things using x-loader.17:17
Paliwhat do you want to change??17:17
quackquackloads of things.17:18
Paligpsign is for GP devices (not HS)17:18
quackquacki need to edit the config file have a look at the privatepaste.com17:18
Palibut jacekowski had signing SW17:18
quackquackcant i have it?17:19
Palisomwhere on internet is windows version17:19
kerioLithdk: there's no way to softwarebrick a n90017:19
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LithdkAlright, can I flash combined without flashing fiasco?17:19
Paliwill try to find it17:19
kerioeven losing CAL is not a big deal17:19
quackquackplease let me know. Pali17:19
keriobluetooth kinda stops working because it doesn't know its MAC, but you can restore that17:19
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quackquackPali, i am trying to port coreboot.17:20
quackquackthats why.17:20
psycho_oreosLithdk, I guess its doable, probably no harm done if it fails. You just go back to square one and have to try something else. What I'm trying to imply is that there might be a way to get your N900 to charge that included BL-5J up without having to wait for the spare battery to arrive.17:20
Paliquackquack: link for that SW was posted here on irc17:21
Paliso try to find in chanlog17:21
Paliexe suffix17:21
quackquackokay one sec.17:21
LithdkYeah but this is my first smartphone and I've never done any rom flashing either, so really I need to know what commands to type in and what image. I have RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin downloaded17:22
psycho_oreosPali && quackquack, I don't know if this is related but could it be on the same subject in regards to NOLO patcher? I have the TMO link here.17:22
Palinolo is not signed17:22
quackquackyes nolo is not signed.17:23
Paliit can be changed with Hexeditor directly17:23
psycho_oreosAhh my bad :/ I thought what I found might have helped, the OP did reference thanks to jacekowski though.17:23
psycho_oreosLithdk, <-- pretty much what you need.17:23
psycho_oreosLithdk, essentially you need the FIASCO image, not the combined iinm. Let me check..17:24
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LithdkOkay, will get the fiasco17:24
Lithdkbut it's just that 5 line section I need to follow?17:24
infobotwell, pali is
Lithdkand change it so it works with my .deb flasher instead17:24
kerioPali: do you reckon that 0xFFFF works on os x?17:24
Palikerio: no idea17:25
keriowhat does it use? libusb?17:25
quackquacki cant find it.17:25
Palikerio: if you have c99 compiler and libusb it should work17:25
keriolibusb is installable17:25
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Lithdkthere are 2 fiasco image17:25
Palibut it using some functions which are available on with GNU_SOURCE17:26
psycho_oreosLithdk, sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R <--- that but you substitute <firmware-image> with the actual filename.17:26
psycho_oreosPali, interesting, thanks!17:26
quackquackPali, i cant find it.17:26
quackquackcan you help me find it?17:26
LithdkTop fiasco image or bottom? e.g. "eMMC content 1.2009.41-1" or "eMMC content 10.2010.13-2"17:26
Paliquackquack: looks like jacekowsi deleted it :-(17:27
kerioPali: libusb, libusb-compat, or libusbx?17:27
Palikerio: libusb version 0.something17:27
quackquackso its lost for ever?17:27
Paliquackquack: looking on my hdd17:27
keriook, so you need libusb-compat17:27
psycho_oreosquackquack, <---- its around 15:00 hrs. What jacekowski mentioned.17:29
ecc3ghas anyone found any situation that libusb-compat doesn't work but libusb0 works?17:29
psycho_oreosLithdk, hang on looking for the file.17:29
psycho_oreosLithdk, RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin <--- if you have already mentioned that then I apologise. Its been a long while since I last looked at the filenames. The one that says "VANILLA" == eMMC image not FIASCO.17:31
quackquackaah i see.17:31
LithdkAlright it's okay. I will try "sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R" if it bricks it bricks :P17:32
psycho_oreosLithdk, it shouldn't brick (in theory).17:32
psycho_oreosLooks like there's no mirrors of that file and accessing the link to zip is 403 (Forbidden).17:33
Lithdkhas all the files17:33
psycho_oreosLithdk, not for that particular file quackquack mentioned :)17:33
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LithdkOh sorry thought it was a message to me :P17:34
quackquacki got it now.17:34
quackquackthanks! mate! ;-)17:34
kerioPali: :<17:34
kerioPali: disk.c:27:22: error: linux/fs.h: No such file or directory17:34
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psycho_oreosLithdk, heh my bad, just bit of crosstalk and yeah it got tangled up.17:35
psycho_oreosquackquack, the file?17:35
quackquacksomeone very helpful donated.17:36
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quackquacknow i can happily play around.17:36
psycho_oreos*nods* be interesting if you document it on w.m.o though :D17:37
LithdkHah now it wont detect the phone, not with flasher-3.5 -i either17:38
Palikerio: you can disable disk operations which are used only on n90017:38
Paliso then you will not need linux/fs.h17:38
Palijust comment disk_dump_raw() function17:38
Palicomment code, function must be there17:39
psycho_oreosLithdk, what does the screen show?17:39
kerioPali: nothing can go wrong with this! :D17:39
psycho_oreosLithdk, also what did the flasher tool said last?17:39
Lithdkdim lighted nokia logo. But my terminal on linux just says "suitable usb device not found"17:39
kerioPali: cal_init_file17:39
Palikerio: no because disk is not implemented17:39
Lithdkbefore flasher-3.5 -i atleast recognized it17:40
keriosame thing?17:40
Palical is not needed for desktop version17:40
Palical is used only on n900 version17:40
psycho_oreosLithdk, hmm, so its permanently stuck on dim lighted nokia logo? no reboots or anything?17:40
Lithdknow I killed terminal and it goes into reboot loop17:41
Paliquackquack: here is info about X-Loader:
Palithis is same for all omap3 HS boards17:41
Lithdkbut it did not flash, so still safe to wait for battery. I the flashing the kernel later too17:41
keriooh come on this is bullshit17:42
kerioos x has no strnlen17:42
Paliit looks like that website is down, thanks webarchive for backup17:42
quackquackaah one second mate.17:42
kerioPali: what is this i don't even17:42
LithdkI will try flashing the kernel later too*17:42
Palikerio: you need POSIX system17:42
Paliand strnlen is part of POSIX17:42
keriocome on, posix 200817:42
keriothere's also no memmem17:43
kerioand no usb_detach_kernel_driver_np apparently17:43
Paliyes, I wrote that is needed _GNU_SOURCE17:43
kerioi don't think this can work on osx ._.17:43
Paliusb_detach_kernel_driver_np is not needed17:43
Paliyou can see #ifdef17:43
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quackquackthanks man.17:43
Paliit is needed only for systems which support detaching kernel driver from usb device17:44
quackquacknow one terrible question. i wonder how coreboot will fit in here.17:44
psycho_oreosPali && quackquack: I saw this instead:
keriowell, apparently this libusb lies like crazy17:44
quackquackpsycho_oreos, yes i am reading it mate.17:44
psycho_oreosLithdk, hmm that's unusual, you flashed kernel and it gets into reboot loop after being frozen.17:44
psycho_oreosquackquack, *nods* ahh ok.17:44
Lithdknah it didnt flash the kernel because it didnt recognize the usb device17:45
Palikerio: btw strnlen_s is part of C1117:45
Lithdkflasher-3.5 didnt recognize it17:45
Paliso you can use C11 compiler and change strnlen to strnlen_s17:45
quackquackthanks mate psycho_oreos :-)17:45
kerioPali: gcc 4.217:45
kerioso yeah17:45
LithdkI think I did the thing right, executed the command and connected the phone to the usb while holding down "U" on the phone.17:45
psycho_oreosLithdk, in that case I'd say the battery died off (low power as the potential cause). You need to give it sometime (preferrably when the device tries to boot but fails but not when amber light is permanently lit).17:45
psycho_oreosquackquack, *nods* no worries. Whole thing somewhat interests me (even though I really don't have a single clue about it all).17:46
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kerioPali: anyway, why memmem and not strstr?17:46
Palistrstr checking for NULL term17:46
Palimemmem not17:46
keriobut ok17:47
psycho_oreosLithdk, that would be right yes. If did right you will see on the top right corner there will be that USB symbol. If it sticks there, it means you have done it right. Though you must remember that you have very short time for flashing. This was why I said you must be prepared.17:47
Paliare you lazy to write your version of memmem? :-)17:47
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PaliKMP is easy and fast :-)17:47
psycho_oreosIf you didn't do it correctly (and this is only supposedly), N900 will stop showing that USB symbol and reboots.17:48
LithdkOh didnt check for that symbol this time. But I'll let it charge and watch an episode of chuck. You have been most helpful and patient with me Psycho, thank you. We'll see if it will flash after charging for a while :-)17:48
Palikerio: or rolling hash function (e.g. rabin-karp) is also fast :-)17:50
kerionaive bruteforce or bust17:51
psycho_oreosLithdk, I hate to somewhat say that charging for awhile may not help. The device will try to boot whenever it has around 5% charge, it will keep retrying until the battery runs out of juice in which it will fall back into emergency charge mode. Once in emergency charge mode, the amber light stays on for about 5 minutes then it tries to reboot into normal/ACT_DEAD mode and will keep repeating iinm.17:51
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Palikerio: KMP has smaller code only few lines17:52
LithdkAha. So I have to unplug it just before it tries to reboot into normal/ACT_DEAD mode and flash the kernel?17:54
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psycho_oreosLithdk, no no, there's no need to unplug. When the device tries to boot (you will see it will show nokia logo repetitively), you quickly press and hold the 'U' key until USB symbol sticks on top right, as soon as its that (and you still have USB cable intact) you quickly tell PC to flash the kernel.18:00
psycho_oreosThat command iirc also tells flasher to force the device into reboot as soon as it has finished flashing (which in this case its only kernel).18:00
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psycho_oreosI'm pretty sure the amber light won't stick on and the screen won't show nokia logo without backlight (which is just dim light). It may have a brief second or so of amber LED on.18:03
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psycho_oreosIn either case when you encounter that, the device is no longer in emergency charge mode, but again N900 will without fail constantly retry to boot kernel properly until the battery runs flat.18:04
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LithdkIm trying, but it wont seems to catch the usb logo. Tried several times :P Will keep on18:10
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psycho_oreosThat doesn't sound particularly good :/18:17
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LithdkWell when I get a charged battery I should be able to do it, yes?18:19
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psycho_oreosYeah, most likely more properly.18:20
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* psycho_oreos is still certain there has to be a way to make N900 charge battery without needing some other battery/method.18:21
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LithdkMy brother lives a few minutes away, he has a Samsung galaxy, will that charge it?18:27
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LithdkAlright I flashed the kernel, didnt boot though, just the white screen with blue nokia18:34
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psycho_oreosNot sure, somewhat doubt it :/ I happen to have access to Samsung Galaxy S II once. I do remember seeing three copper pins on the battery which may look identical to BL-5J but unsure of what individual posts are.18:36
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psycho_oreosI was reading up old IRC logs, interestingly cold flashing works when you have low battery.18:37
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LithdkYeah it just seems very technical18:41
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psycho_oreosI somehow don't think cold flashing is also necessary. Though I can't imagine how or why the N900 will no longer go into flashing mode once you try to flash only the kernel. Unless somehow the bootloader got nuked (in which flasher-3.5 -i won't yield anything).18:44
LithdkIf nolo is the bootloader the flasher-3.5 -i recognized it so I think it works18:52
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Souravhi all I installed bme replacement can any tell me how to fix it18:55
Souravno data or battery is not caliberated18:56
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psycho_oreosI don't think nolo == bootloader. There's a couple of segments to bootloader.18:59
kerioSourav: calibrate bq27k19:01
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keriommh, no factoid for it?19:01
* infobot starts crying and hides from kerio in the darkest corner of the room. :(19:01
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Souravyes kerio whats that bq27k19:02
keriobq27200 is the battery fuel gauge chip19:03
kerioto calibrate it, you have to charge the battery fully, then let it discharge until a certain threshold19:03
kerio~search bq27k19:03
keriogoddammit i'm fairly sure that i had it somewhere19:04
keriooh well19:05
kerioinfobot: calibratebq27200 is
infobotokay, kerio19:05
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kerio(it only works if you have the bme replacement installed)19:06
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kerio(not just the battery applet, that's irrelevant)19:06
Souravya i have bme installed19:06
PaliSourav: just charge battery to FULL, then discharge it until bme replacement will shutdown phone and then charge battery again19:07
keriothat requires manual intervention!19:07
keriothis one's automatic19:07
kerioplug your n900 in before going to bed, set backlight at max19:07
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keriowhat Pali said is correct19:09
kerioand it makes things a lot more easy19:09
infobotmethinks rescue-os is, or
Souravyep thanks kerio and Pali you were helpful to me19:10
Wizzuphmmm.... think the mmc just died19:10
Wizzuplet's reflash and see19:10
psycho_oreosNIN101, added that extra factoid where you were having issues with. You need to address it as "foo is also blah"/19:11
NIN101psycho_oreos: thx.19:11
psycho_oreosLithdk, still no hope? :/19:12
Souravwell what happened to Doc ??19:12
psycho_oreosOn holiday.19:12
LithdkNo Ive been trying with some intervals19:12
LithdkIf it doesnt work with the new battery I'll return it for a full refund and try to get a hold of a used one on maemo.org19:13
psycho_oreosDamn, I'd try to fix it if I were living in EU. Pisses me off how my suggestion fails to work.19:14
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LithdkWell you are very helpful. Im sure it will work. if you were here with the device I think you'd catagorize it as a battery issue too.19:16
LithdkFeels like a battery issue and there have been reports of crappy chineese batteries19:16
psycho_oreosIt's somewhat hard to say really, it could also be the way they configured it somehow made the device chew up all the remaining power and arrive at your doorstep flat.19:17
psycho_oreosIt's a little beyond me why they need to customise it in the first place to the destination country and yet not even charge the battery.19:18
LithdkSeems pointless yes, especially when most people reflash it right away19:18
psycho_oreosThose in the know would, others maybe not so much.19:19
kerioinfobot: rescue-os is also
infobotkerio: okay19:19
infobotit has been said that rescue-os is, or, or
infobot:), psycho_oreos19:19
psycho_oreosLithdk, maybe let the device charge for about an hour (even though it will be somewhat futile) and try to get it into flashing mode. Then try to flash kernel.19:20
Lithdkyeah Im trying that19:22
kerioan external charger at that point is kinda required actually19:22
psycho_oreosThe problem (I believe) with external charger is that you need to be watching constantly (or at least most of the time). The external charger if its not genuine BL-5J charger per se, it may overcharge and ruin the battery permanently and/or make it leak/explode/etc.19:24
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psycho_oreosTechnically the device would be classed as DOA. It should never be flat, it doesn't do the battery any good nor would it even benefit the device.19:28
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psycho_oreoshmm.. RescueOS seems quite interesting. If one could flash rescueOS instead in a bid to let the device fully charge. That maybe is a temporary solution.19:33
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keriopsycho_oreos: you just need enough to flash, really19:36
kerioanyway, i don't think you can load rescueOS when the battery's too low19:36
kerioa simple fix would be to allow uboot to charge the battery fully19:36
kerioand flash it19:36
psycho_oreosDamn, I was hoping there would be some temporary solution. It seemed like my suggestion botched Lithdk's device up.19:37
psycho_oreoskerio, problem is I don't think Lithdk's device has uboot :/19:37
keriooh of course19:37
kerioat Lithdk's point the only cure is an external charger19:38
kerioLithdk: buy another n900!19:38
keriothey're awesome19:38
LithdkLet's wait for my new battery first :P19:38
psycho_oreosWell... I won't deny that but lol.19:38
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psycho_oreoskerio, I'm actually surprised you won't even recommend ideas such as flashing the maemo kernel instead. I'm pretty sure most kp setups would still leave omap1 kernel modules intact.19:39
kerioi thought the problem was that the battery was too low :O19:40
psycho_oreosYeah the battery was too low but the device bootloops as well when trying to boot.19:40
kerioand you can't flash it19:40
kerioso you can't flash anything19:40
kerioemergency charging doesn't bring the battery up enough to flash19:41
kerionolo checks the battery voltage before allowing you to flash19:41
psycho_oreosI thought squeezing kernel in may help afterall it boots kernel after bootloader and secondary have done their job.19:41
psycho_oreosAlthough I do recall Lithdk did have some output from "flasher-3.5 -i"19:42
psycho_oreosMaybe requesting info was ok but not flash?19:42
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LithdkI had output yeah19:42
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kerioanyway, if you can flash, just reflash everything and then restore a backup19:43
psycho_oreosI also wonder how the hell would one be able to charge that flat battery if the device is going to constantly bootloop and go into emergency charge mode. Surely one doesn't need to buy that DT-44 or whatever it was.19:43
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psycho_oreosI thought if one could flash from emergency charge mode, it would only hold around 5% of battery charge. Which would be highly insufficient for complete FIASCO flash.19:44
keriopsycho_oreos: if your n900 is bootlooping and the battery is too low, you're fucked19:44
keriopsycho_oreos: more than enough to load rescueOS and start a normal charge, i reckon19:44
kerioi mean19:44
kerioemergency charge is enough to go through the boot process up to bme19:45
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psycho_oreoskerio, I have had a similar case with my other N900, thankfully I had dime a dozen batteries available in various states. Swapped with another battery and the device would boot up and allow normal charging.19:45
ecc3gmy broken ac10c will bootloop if the battery is flat and won't recover from the situation, though it will charge when the phone is booted.  I have another microusb charger that will recover it from flat...19:46
kerioemergency charge would've allowed you to boot, i think19:46
psycho_oreosYeah that's true.. *shrug* just thought on a bit of hope that flashing kernel should suffice. Guess I was sorely wrong.19:46
keriokernel doesn't do shit by itself19:46
kerioand it's a moot point, really, because emergency charge isn't enough to flash19:47
psycho_oreosno no kernel will load that bq kernel module which will then negotiate for more faster charge.19:47
kerioso if your battery is too low to flash and you can't boot enough to charge, you're fucked19:47
keriono no kernel won't do that19:47
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LjL-Alpsso wait where does/can the thing fail between emergency charging and booting?19:48
keriowhat i still haven't figured out is if nolo will let you load rescueOS if the battery is too low19:48
kerioLjL-Alps: emergency charge can charge enough to boot, but not enough to flash19:49
kerioso if you need to reflash because you can't boot, and the battery is too low to flash, you're screwed19:49
LjL-Alpsso you need to have a kernel that actually works19:49
keriobecause nothing will charge the battery enough to flash at that point19:49
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kerioit doesn't have to be the kernel19:49
kerioa botched optfs will also hinder booting19:49
kerioor weird stuff in preinit19:50
kerioor a botched transitions.ini that makes the n900 reboot instantly19:50
LjL-Alpsi suppose having u-boot installed might help, that way you can always boot from an SD card?19:50
WizzupIs it possible to have maemo on a sd card rather than the internal mmc?19:50
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LjL-Alpsi don't know, i know you can have Nemo Mobile, and i guess Android19:51
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WizzupGuess it is -
WizzupLjL-Alps: I don't think Nemo is fit for me yet. I want to try it but was scared by the feature matrix19:53
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LjL-Alpsheh yeah i see. i thought you were responding to the part where i mentioned recovering from an SD card19:53
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WizzupLjL-Alps: no, it appears my mmc is dead19:55
Wizzupor rather, I didn't actually get write errors -- but all my files turned into ``Stale NFS handles''19:55
Wizzupso I'll try a reflash first19:56
WizzupBut I suspect more trouble19:56
Wizzup(fsck didn't work)19:56
psycho_oreosfsck from PC?19:56
Wizzupmaybe I'll give nemomobile a try as well19:56
LjL-Alpsthird time i hear about the stale NFS handles thing in a couple of weeks i've been here. still unsure whether that's supposed to be a software or hardware thing though!19:56
WizzupLjL-Alps: I mentioned it before19:56
psycho_oreosIn most cases I'd say it would be hardware, if you never use NFS then its to do with taking the battery (for example) out of the device and not letting it shut down gracefully.19:58
Wizzuppsycho_oreos: yes, I probably did this.19:58
WizzupBecause the N900 doesn't show when it is actually shut down.19:58
WizzupAs least not judging by the LED19:58
Wizzupgoing to reflash soon19:59
Wizzupand try thumb19:59
Wizzupif it succeeds19:59
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psycho_oreosWizzup, DocScrutinizer05 did sort of mention this once, that once you shut down N900, you need to wait around 10-15 seconds. During that time you will see nokia logo appearing without backlight for a brief few seconds.19:59
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kerioonce you shut down the n900 you should check that it's turned off by tapping the power button20:00
kerioto see if the led is lighting up20:00
* psycho_oreos thinks that case is relevant if your device is not in R&D mode.20:01
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LjL-Alpserr, guess nobody uses an N810 any longer, but i'll try asking anyway... :P is there any convincing solution to the "ghost lines" problem in MyPaint?20:38
Wizzuppsycho_oreos: alright, so let's hope the mmc is not damaged then20:45
LjL-Alpshah, i see libx11-whatever has been pushed to extras-devel again, docscrutinizer will be happy :P20:46
freemangordonLjL-Alps: that's another package20:46
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, maemo-flashing is
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WizzupWhat was the alternative place for images / flasher?20:51
WizzupI know it was hosted somewhere else20:51
* Wizzup rechecks wiki20:51
Wizzupgot it20:52
LjL-Alpsi'd like to get someone to buy an N810 (or possibly N900 but N810 seems apter for that to me) for drawing... but MyPaint is a bit, uh, sketchy20:52
psycho_oreosWizzup, was about to say skeiron. Oh well.20:54
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Wizzupyes, found it20:55
psycho_oreosfreemangordon, got issues with hildon-home. Still on thumb version and three days uptime hildon-home shoots CPU usage through the roof and sticks it at that level. I believe some programs I opened and closed may have caused CPU to stick at 100% for a good while but now after closing ovi maps the CPU usage still reports 100%.20:55
* Wizzup is going to try thumb as well20:56
WizzupHas anyone actually verified how much ram it saves? And I assume that thumb and non-thumb mixes just fine?20:56
psycho_oreosI think everyone's mileage varies. On my case there's more swap usage compared to running non-thumb variant. Also mixes seems to be fine.20:59
Wizzupmore swap?21:00
Wizzupthat's weird21:00
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psycho_oreosProbably I have more of other things running hence maybe more swap. *shrugs*.21:03
WizzupI really only use my n900 for a few things: ssh/terminal, calling, sharing 3g over usb21:03
WizzupThat's all I really want for a phone... and it for it to be GNU/Linux21:04
Wizzupmaybe I should try out nemo21:04
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eccerr0rcan android still be called GNU/Linux?21:05
eccerr0rdidn't think so, they bastardized it too much.21:05
eccerr0rI just wished more of maemo was OSS21:06
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Wizzuphmm ... flashing RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin seems to go way too fast21:12
WizzupOr rather, it takes no time...21:12
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Wizzupah now it is21:15
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psycho_oreosFinally finished compiling the basis of firmware hacking.21:31
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brolin_empeyFree the mango! ;-)22:15
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Wizzuphmm, powerkernel doesn't want to install -- it tells me it's missing kernel-feature-smartreflex22:39
Wizzup(I flashed PR 1.3; added extras-testing; performed any upgrades, and now it tells me that)22:42
kerionothing depends or is depended upon by kernel-feature-smartreflex in nokia ssu, nokia apps, extras-devel, cssu-testing, cssu-thumb, cssu-devel, bmerep22:43
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WizzupStatus: Not installable22:44
WizzupLet me try from command line and see22:44
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WizzupApplication packages missing: kernel-feature-smartreflex22:44
WizzupThat's power kernel 5022:44
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WizzupThe following packages have unmet dependencies:22:46
Wizzup  kernel-power-settings: Depends: kernel-feature-smartreflex but it is not installable22:46
WizzupE: Broken packages22:46
keriowait, what22:47
keriowhy are you installing kp50? D:22:47
WizzupI don't want to -- its just whatever is in the package manager.22:47
WizzupI added the extras-testing repo as well22:47
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Wizzupweird, via apt it seems to work.22:48
Wizzupalthough I don't think I wanted to do that ;-)22:49
Wizzupah, that also doesn't contain the flasher22:49
Wizzupmaybe I'll add extras-devel and install power kernel from there22:50
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Wizzupfrom devel it works23:07
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