IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-07-12

Lava_Croftnokia announced yet another completely unimpressive mobile device!00:00
Lava_Croftand its still the same phone as 2 years ago, it seems! \o/00:00
DocScrutinizer05if they only would announce same N900-alike as 5 years ago00:02
Lava_Croftthose times are past us00:03
Lava_Croftnokia is not in the game anymore to set the bar:)00:03
Lava_Croftthey now follow, several miles behind00:03
Lava_Croftwhat i wonder is what monkey at Nokia thought that putting this PureView monster in a Lumia will make people want a Lumia00:03
Lava_Croftas if the camera was the reason holding people back from buying a Lumia00:04
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* DocScrutinizer05 stares at his new disk activity indicator and thinks "how awesome!"00:06
Lava_Croftyeah i read it00:06
Lava_Croftbut i decided its not worth it if it doesnt stick!00:06
Win7Macplease port to N9 :P00:07
DocScrutinizer05while sleep 10; do echo mmc1 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger;  echo mmc0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:b/trigger; done00:07
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DocScrutinizer05good enough for me, for now00:07
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DocScrutinizer05btw don't get fooled, here mmc0 and mmc1 are genuine unrenamed meaning00:09
DocScrutinizer05and I think r for red is nicer than b for blue00:10
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DocScrutinizer05i.e. uSD is red, not blue when you use /sys/class/leds/lp5523\:r instead *b00:10
DocScrutinizer05I just wonder wtf there's no mtd0 in list of triggers00:12
DocScrutinizer05(cat /sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger)00:13
DocScrutinizer05none timer heartbeat mmc0 [mmc1]00:13
DocScrutinizer05heartbeat is pretty boring00:15
DocScrutinizer05timer is kinda obscure00:15
DocScrutinizer05I once checked sourcecode how to use it, but in the end it's also boring00:16
Lava_Croftill just blindly copy and paste that you said over ssh00:16
Lava_Croftn900 is not within reach00:16
Lava_Croft(of course i wont, but its always fun to say such things)00:17
DocScrutinizer05well, when you want to run that via ssh (wlan) then you probably should use nohup (or screen)00:17
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DocScrutinizer05and as mentioned, it works much better when you disable "device on" LED pattern in settings/LED-patterns00:18
Lava_Crofti have all leds except charging disabled00:18
Lava_Croftthey serve me no purpose for notifications00:18
DocScrutinizer05then you indeed can simply c&p it to a ssh session00:18
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DocScrutinizer05nohup while sleep 10; do echo mmc1 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger;  echo mmc0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:r/trigger; done00:19
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Lava_Croftim not fast with saying such things00:22
Lava_Croftbut THIS particular blinking light is cool00:22
Lava_Croftfinally it seems i havew a valid use for the led00:22
Lava_Croftat least for as long as the novelty factor works00:23
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~/bin# cp -i * /usr/local/bin/00:23
DocScrutinizer05cp: „/usr/local/bin/patch-libsms“ überschreiben? n00:23
DocScrutinizer05cp: copy.c:2259: valid_options: Assertion `((unsigned int) (co->backup_type) <= numbered_backups)' failed.00:23
DocScrutinizer05Aborted (core dumped)00:23
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~/bin# cp --version00:26
DocScrutinizer05cp (GNU coreutils) 8.400:26
DocScrutinizer05bbl, afk00:26
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Lava_Croftdont think your led works that well!00:33
Lava_Croftcopying a file did not make it light up00:33
Lava_Croftwell, your 'code' or my insertion00:34
DocScrutinizer05I think each keypress causes a mce event that might reset it. To be investigated further00:35
Lava_Croftand here i thought that idea was crazy, haha00:36
Lava_Croftsince it does seem to cancel it upon any keypress00:36
Lava_Croftor just about anything else00:36
Lava_Croftstill, a valid path to explore00:36
DocScrutinizer05you could disable mce led plugin all together, even when this probably also has impact on kbd backlight00:36
Lava_Croftyeah, thats not really needed for now00:37
Lava_Croftim sure there can/will be a workaround00:37
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Lava_Croftits amazing how Apple can make a 2h presentation and show nothing really new and everybody is cheering00:48
Lava_Croftwhile ELop shows off quite impressive camera tech and im just yawning00:49
Lava_Croftmost of the Nokia Pro Cam stuff is already pretty normal for n900 users00:50
Lava_Croftthats neato00:52
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ecc3ghow many cell phones out there have xenon discharge flashes nowadays?01:14
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Lava_Croftno clue, but its normal to bring standard features as if they are special01:15
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ecc3gIt does make a big difference in low light photography... but it eats battery...01:17
Lava_Croftwell, friend of mine has that other lumia with the neat low-light ability01:18
Lava_Croftit's quite impressive01:18
Lava_Crofttoo bad thats about the only thing thats neat about t01:18
Lava_Croftalmost bought a 808 the other day, but decided 527euros is still a bit much :P01:19
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ecc3gjust that you can't use your phone as a flashlight anymore :o01:19
ecc3gI wonder if it's possible to upgrade the N900's LEDs with a higher efficiency/higher wattage LED.01:20
Lava_Crofthm, probably not, since that would draw more power01:20
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Lava_Croftim fairly sure that stuff is fairly tight01:21
Lava_Croftand i used the fairly twice in a single sentence, so \o/01:21
ecc3gsome of those 1W LEDs are really bright, I should check the luminosity of the built-in LEDs...01:22
ecc3gthen again, they are fairly bright when used as a flashlight as they are.01:22
Lava_Croftyeah, and getting the flashlight on is actually easier on n900 than on n901:22
Lava_Croftat least the way i do it01:22
Lava_Croftso i end up using the n900 as flashlight all the time:P01:23
ecc3gactually a 1W LED should still last a while on a bl5j01:23
ecc3gthen again the LEDs may already be close to 1W as they are...01:24
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ecc3ghmm 320mA =~ 1W, they might well be 1W LED units01:27
ecc3gw/o heatsink01:28
ecc3gthe dies look very small for 1W but might just be due to the lens01:28
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Lava_Croft :)01:31
Lava_Croftthe only thing keeping the right iphone from not falling apart into glass shards is the cae01:31
ecc3ghmm...  I really wonder why people like showing off their broken iphones,... it screams "idiot" to me...01:52
Lava_Croftthis is even worse01:53
Lava_Croftthis is the woman's 9th iphone01:53
Lava_Croftshe cant get a new one because the insurance company finally said 'screw you'01:53
Lava_Croftthe left one is my wife's01:54
ecc3gneed to figure out how to take care of them.01:54
Lava_Croftlike just not dropping them i guess01:54
ecc3gsomething like that.01:54
Lava_Croftmy wife's dropped quite a few times, it has just a few little dents in the aluminium band01:54
Lava_Croftso i dont know what some people do to it!01:55
ecc3gshit happens... but... why show off a broken iphone01:55
Lava_Croftits power reflected in vanity!01:55
ecc3ghonestly I don't even recognize iphones, heh.  I would have just passed it off as "phone X" if you haven't told me...01:56
Lava_Croftoh, its easily recognizable as an iphone01:56
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Lava_Croftbut i see that iphone4 every day, so im probably rather biased:)01:57
ecc3gnow... a broken n900... time to mourn.  heh01:58
Lava_Croftill mourn when its dead, broken can be repaired01:59
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ecc3gunlike iphones, the number of n900s out there can only go down :(02:01
Lava_Croftsadly, yes02:01
ecc3gI dropped my n900 a few days ago onto concrete, my heart stopped, fortunately it was only a foot or so, and it's still working OK...02:02
Lava_Croftdont speak of such things, its awful02:03
ecc3gno cracks fortunately02:03
Lava_Croftyou get near-heart attacks all the time02:03
ecc3gI shouldn't. :(02:03
Lava_Crofteverytime it moves in a direction i dont want to, i go aaah02:03
Lava_Croftits silly, for a dumb computer02:03
Lava_Croftwell, i shout aaah from my mind's mouth:P02:03
ecc3gtrue... dumb computer that has no replacement other than itself...02:03
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DocScrutinizer05well, don't sit on it. that's what most of those "broke my iphone" dudes prolly do02:22
ecc3ghow many n900s have succumbed to back pocket forgetfulness?02:26
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chainsawbiken900's are fairly tough though... mine lives in my pocket outside my body armour when i am riding my dirt bike - it has survived numerous crashes unscathed...03:16
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sivanghi all11:49
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sivangit has been a while since I logged into this channel, glad to see everybody are still here11:49
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infobotrumour has it, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)12:03
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DocScrutinizer05>> No Real Programmer works 9 to 5. (Unless it's the ones at night.) << ( )14:17
Lava_Croftso 80s14:18
DocScrutinizer05so hard to get right. The text always jumps between sarcasm, cynicism, and damn true statements14:19
Lava_CroftYeah, but the romantic idea of a'14:20
Lava_Crofter of a 'programmer' is actually not so romantic and its 20years old14:20
Lava_Croftand its overly disgustingly male14:20
Lava_Croftto the point of saturation14:20
DocScrutinizer05except in "Real Programmers don't wear high heeled shoes."14:21
Lava_Croftprobably also the reason why just about any piece of software is shit14:21
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DocScrutinizer05probably it lacks a "Real Programmers don't participate in emancipation and gender discussions."14:22
DocScrutinizer05though implicitly included, we have "A Real Programmer goes to discos to watch the light shows."14:23
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I was once told by a lead programmer to *avoid* multithread code14:24
jon_ythat real enough yet?14:25
jon_yshe says it makes code hard to read and understand14:25
DocScrutinizer05it's a pity that natural languages have a ubiquitous concept of gender14:25
Lava_Croftit's a pity that was is called a 'real programmer' is always this bro-tastic male person14:25
jon_yalso, make sure to hang the main UI so that our users know our app is busy14:25
jon_ydefinitely not bro for rejecting multithreaded and responsive code14:27
DocScrutinizer05from a code efficiency perspective it's just insane to bother about the 2% of female programmers14:27
Lava_Croftthat is implying code is effecient :)14:28
DocScrutinizer05I guess wemon are too smart to act like real programers14:28
Lava_Crofthealthy dose of female improves anything that is overly male14:28
DocScrutinizer05code is efficient inside a gzip archive14:28
DocScrutinizer05yes, alas we're far away from anything like a healthy dose of female in IT14:29
jon_yinstead of a hung UI, why not make a modal progress bar window?14:29
jon_yNope, multithreaded code is ugly14:29
* amin007110 is thinking about: Does restoring those lost+found stuffs have better consequent than reflashing?! according to
jon_yamin007110: very likely has some corruption in them?14:30
DocScrutinizer05women* btw14:30
amin007110jon_y, maybe.14:31
DocScrutinizer05(code) I consider natural language a code here14:31
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jon_ybtw, anybody know if int * a = (int[2]) {1,2}; legal in C?14:32
jon_ykind of funky looking but seems to work14:33
jon_ynot sure what kind of search term to put in google14:33
DocScrutinizer05coding the article in a gender neutral way would cause massive drop in code efficiency, that's just not justified given we talk about maybe 0.1% of female subjects that are tr´argeted by that text14:33
DocScrutinizer05and those 0.1% would probably feel insulted14:34
DocScrutinizer05since they never forget the name of their husband14:34
DocScrutinizer05"A Real Programmer might or might not know his wife's name. He does, however, know the entire ASCII (or EBCDIC) code table."14:34
jon_ydoes a real programmer do VB?14:36
jon_yprobably a troll, I saw one at thedailywtf, he said C should inherit single "=" from VB in if/else comparisons14:37
DocScrutinizer05read the article, a Real Programmer does FORTRAN exclusively (except the few assembler things he uses to tackle the problems that can't get done in FORTRAN)14:37
jon_yI should learn Fortran14:37
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jon_ywith C bindings, cause that's where the party's at14:37
jon_yalso, real programmers don't do Agile14:39
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jon_yI present to your a custom tree structure in java, with no tree seaarch, nor a way to remove elements after it's added14:40
jon_ysince no one thought it through14:40
jon_yin fact, it doesn't even have any public methods14:40
jon_ypublic interfaces14:41
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jon_yusable functions, oop wise14:41
DocScrutinizer05not sth a Real Programmer would ever bother with14:41
jon_yeverything is inherited14:41
jon_ythat kind of bullshit convinced me agile is bullshit14:41
jon_ythe reason for such a crappy class was because "customer never asked for anything more that requires it!"14:42
jon_yI gave up trying to refactor the code after a few weeks14:43
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: you honestly need to read
jon_yalso, everything that uses the tree struct uses typeof instead of proper inheritance14:44
jon_ycompletly neglecting the purose of OOP to begin with14:44
DocScrutinizer05>>What of the future? It is a matter of some concern to Real Programmers that the latest generation of computer programmers are not being brought up with the same outlook on life as their elders. Many of them have never seen a computer with a front panel. Hardly anyone graduating from school these days can do hex arithmetic without a calculator. College graduates these days are soft -- protected from the realities of programming by source14:44
DocScrutinizer05level debuggers, text editors that count parentheses, and "user friendly" operating systems. Worst of all, some of these alleged "computer scientists" manage to get degrees without ever learning FORTRAN! Are we destined to become an industry of Unix hackers and Pascal programmers?<<14:45
jon_y>>Real Programmers aren't afraid to use GOTOs.14:45
jon_ySo TRUE14:45
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jon_yjava doesn't have gotos because it is pretentious14:45
jon_yneither does it have unsigned integers14:45
jon_yusing for(;;)/break as fake goto in java gets tired after awhile14:46
jon_yso does dealing with programmers that write shell scripts masquerading as java code14:47
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DocScrutinizer05hehehehehehehe muhahaha14:47
jon_yeg using map instead of set for unique objects14:48
DocScrutinizer05in FORTRAN there's no for(;;)14:48
jon_ywell, it's java14:48
DocScrutinizer05there are calculated goto14:49
jon_yI should get promoted to code review nazi at work14:49
DocScrutinizer05but nothing you couldn't do with smart self-modifying code14:49
jon_yjob should come with an armband and a whip, along with stylish designer uniform14:50
DocScrutinizer05you know how COBOL (and so probably FORTAN as well) do subroutine calls? There's no stack. On entering the the subroutine, the return address gets written to the GOTO at end of the subroutine. Funny when you later on run into same code segment by some other means than a subroutine call14:52
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I bet it's real fun when it gets ported to harvard archs14:53
DocScrutinizer05COBOL is per definitionem not multithreaded14:54
jon_ywhat about fortran?14:54
fizzieIn FORTRAN(-90; not before) you just prepend the word "recursive" in front of subroutine/function, and then the implementation will deal with it however it likes.14:55
jon_yit has to be recursive?14:55
DocScrutinizer05I guess they meant reentrant14:55
jon_ydoes fortran has any concept of static variables?14:56
DocScrutinizer05but probably that term wasn't minted yet, when FORTRAN90 got defined14:56
jon_yis there a fortran 2003?14:57
jon_yok, 200814:57
DocScrutinizer05 as well14:57
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DocScrutinizer05DAMN! FORTRAN2003 introduces function pointers :-D15:01
fizzieAnd there's a "save" attribute for persistent local variables (close to that meaning of C's 'static') already in FORTRAN-77.15:01
DocScrutinizer05err procedure pointers, ok ok15:01
jon_yfunction pointers in my fortran!15:02
fizzieAt least they release new versions more often than the C committee.15:02
jon_yI'm waiting for my C1115:02
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jon_yC99 is pretty complete15:02
jon_yso I'm fine even if it was never updated15:03
jon_yyou want functors? go back to c++!15:03
jon_ydoing c++ style pure virtuals just fine in C too15:04
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DocScrutinizer05>>Support for international usage [...] and choice of decimal or comma in numeric formatted input/output.<< LOL! COBOL has "DECIMAL POINT IS COMMA" since dunno 1968 or sth15:04
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jon_y#define , .15:05
jon_ysure is fun15:05
mgedminis that valid C?15:06
fizzieShamefully, no.15:06
fizzie(Macro names need to be identifiers.)15:06
jon_yspeaking of identifiers, C++ can overload punctuation marks15:11
jon_yI'm still wondering how to use them though15:11
jon_yoverloaded operator$ or operator->, operator,15:12
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* DocScrutinizer05 remarks that it's evidently Friday, judging by the topics discussed15:14
Gh0styjudging by shit that wont work its friday indeed :(15:15
Lava_Croftcasual friday15:15
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Lava_Croftsince its friday15:17
Lava_Crofti have the best movie trailer of the year for you15:17
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DocScrutinizer05awesome words:
DocScrutinizer05>>Unfortunately their advice has been completely ignored, and today Unix has become overcome by exactly the kind of mistakes they warned against.<<15:24
* DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "busybox"15:25
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: windows 815:33
jon_ytaking up 20GB15:33
jon_yI didn't even know cat(1) has arguments15:34
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fizziePOSIX cat(1) only has one; no -v there. ("-u: Write bytes from the input file to the standard output without delay as each is read.")15:36
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DocScrutinizer05man rev|tac|rev15:42
DocScrutinizer05madly useful ;-P15:43
kerioC11 is a lie15:45
kerioalso, i have a fully updated MAME romset again! yay!15:46
keriowhoops, wrong window15:46
DocScrutinizer05cat - -   is a tiny bit counter-intuitive in how it works15:47
keriogaaah, wrong window again15:48
kerioi need to install an eye tracker to switch the window focus15:48
DocScrutinizer05well, scrap that, my mistake15:49
kerioi didn't know stdin could be reopened, from a terminal15:49
kerioso maybe that's kinda strange15:49
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: (eyetracker) brilliant hack15:50
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (re-opened) it probably isn't15:50
keriobut i typed ^d15:51
DocScrutinizer05If a file is '-', the cat utility shall read from the standard  input  at15:51
DocScrutinizer05              that  point in the sequence. The cat utility shall not close and reopen standard input when it is referenced in this way, but shall accept multiple occurrences of '-' as a15:51
DocScrutinizer05              file operand.15:51
DocScrutinizer05<< (man 1p cat)15:52
kerioi see15:52
DocScrutinizer05I think ^D is EOF but not automatically closes the filehandle15:53
keriohm, makes sense15:53
DocScrutinizer05after all a file(handle) gets closed by the process that opened it, not by the read()15:53
DocScrutinizer05it's just common practice that a process does read() until EOF, then close()15:55
DocScrutinizer05not all do, though. see tail -f15:56
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jon_y yfw a random Swedish email that was mistaken for spam praise your product after passing through google translate16:04
jon_ycan't read Swedish, still is kind of random on a English ML16:05
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* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to port OpenSUSE bash excellence to fremantle bash17:17
DocScrutinizer05suse:  wc -l /etc/profile              384 /etc/profile17:19
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# wc -l /etc/profile             16 /etc/profile17:20
DocScrutinizer05  though this one is ancient17:30
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Lava_Croftshould turn your tweaks into one huge script to use by DEUs17:47
DocScrutinizer05like this? ->17:54
infobotit has been said that jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05sure I'd adjust the "script" on this wiki page to import a adapted suse /etc/profile (and other related files, particularly for bash-completion)17:55
DocScrutinizer05but also for keybindings atc. E.G it sucks donkeyballs that fremantle bash doesn't know about history-completion by page-up17:56
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: but also for keybindings atc. E.G it sucks donkeyballs that fremantle bash doesn't know about history-search by page-up17:57
DocScrutinizer05I think I need to create an even more general approach, since I see same problem (missing personalization of shell) on other platforms/boxes as well17:58
DocScrutinizer05something to not only deploy my ssh pubkey but same time also my shell aliases and whatnot17:59
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* amin007110 is thinking about Volleyball match result, Iran vs Germany, 21:30 IRST.18:52
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_nicolai_hi, is someone a maintainer for autobuilder? autobuilder does not import new  packages.18:53
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Apic - Epic Fail19:08
DocScrutinizer05_nicolai_: the problem is known, but we don't have a maintainer19:11
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freemangordonPali: ping19:30
Palifreemangordon: pong19:31
freemangordonPali: do you expect me to do anything else re omap_smc3 patch?19:32
freemangordonBTW Dave did one more comment19:32
Palifreemangordon: it is needed something to do with patch?19:33
freemangordonPali: hmm, I'd say yes :)19:33
PaliDave wrote something only about comments, right?19:34
freemangordonPali: remove r12 from stmfd/ldmfd and maybe remove dmb. Maybe I don;t read it correctly19:34
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freemangordonPali: I guess you should ask19:35
freemangordonPali: honestly, I have no idea what comment to put for dsb/dmb19:35
freemangordonPali: besides the already existing comments in omap_smc2()19:36
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_nicolai_DocScrutinizer05, I would like to help, but I don't know anything about autobilder, is there anything I can do?20:31
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merlin1991_nicolai_: the problem actually is midgard20:56
merlin1991_nicolai_: I can manually trigger the import when you ping me20:56
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_nicolai_merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hourse. The newest version to import is ledpulse 0.321:05
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merlin1991_nicolai_: done21:10
shawnjeffersonis the extras assistant web interface working? i always get "no repository selected" just after upload21:19
shawnjeffersonand scp/dput not working for me either21:19
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Marshall_Bananamerlin1991: did you already conntact Jonne Nauha because of my maintainer request for dropn900?21:49
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: no, the problem is autobuilder, which is only 10% midgard and 90% friggin scripts22:33
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: and our real problem is autobuilder / repo-management spamming our db with bogus records, until everything explodes22:34
DocScrutinizer05see ^^^ <_nicolai_> merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hours22:36
DocScrutinizer05other packages do that every 4 minutes22:36
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DocScrutinizer05and I _have_ _to_ shut down this whole stuff when that continues, we already have packages that can't get inspected via package interface since they are simply too long22:38
DocScrutinizer05I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year22:41
DocScrutinizer05sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky22:42
DocScrutinizer05and I definitely will shut down stuff in a few days, if nothing changes in that regard22:43
DocScrutinizer05junk piles up in our db, and no simple means to remove it from there22:44
win7macstuff like autobilder or stuff like m.o?22:44
DocScrutinizer05and things approach a degree of fubar where everything comes to a grinding halt anyway, so I hope I will shut it down before ZILCH works anymore22:45
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: that depends what's fsckdup when I shut it down22:45
DocScrutinizer05we already see fatal failures in www.m.o due to oversized package histories22:46
DocScrutinizer05I won't disable single packages/view/* pages22:46
DocScrutinizer05if that gets worse that what it already is I will have to take down www.m.o as well22:47
win7macare you 1000% sure thats not because the raid is 99,9% stuffed?22:47
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DocScrutinizer05fun detail: when a www.m.o/packages/view/<packagename> page doesn't work anymore, then there's not even a midgard way to delete that whole package, since... the page doesn't work anymore22:48
DocScrutinizer05no, I'm 10000000000000000000000% sure22:49
win7macgoooooooooooooooood ;-)22:49
win7macI still just can't believe it... ;)22:49
DocScrutinizer05you just can't believe what?22:51
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DocScrutinizer05that a 4 or 6 "removing old package version from repository" every 4 minutes, since January, do eventually result in insanely large web pages on ~packages that result in apache processes stalling or getting killed due to OOM?22:52
DocScrutinizer05or that we have no means to remove those 500 events per day for a single package from our 946 midgard datatables22:53
DocScrutinizer05or that I *WILL* shut down everything that is acting self-destructive, in a week the latest22:54
DocScrutinizer05and that's one of the still working ones22:56
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win7macstill loads...22:56
DocScrutinizer05at least it been a few days ago22:57
DocScrutinizer05we have other ones I don't want to post here since every time somebody clicks them, a apache/php process on www dies from out-of-memory22:58
win7macI mean, I could think of having so limited and probably heavily fragmented disc-space may add to the trouble already there22:59
win7macplease don't explain how it works, I trust you ;)23:00
DocScrutinizer05I wish I could explain how it works, actually I can't even explain how it doesn't work23:00
win7machm... have no faith in council setting up a mail like discussed in #meeting 3 weeks ago?23:01
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DocScrutinizer05but I can point you to
win7mac^^ I mean that it will have some kind of positive answer?23:02
DocScrutinizer05you're constatly urging me to c&p what I wrote 15 min or hours or sometimes days before23:03
DocScrutinizer05I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year23:03
win7macyeah and there was an idea23:03
DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-12 21:42:01] <DocScrutinizer05> sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky23:03
DocScrutinizer05not my business, ther are other 4 council members23:05
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DocScrutinizer05I outright refuse to take track of everything23:06
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DocScrutinizer05I announced burnout some 3 months ago23:06
DocScrutinizer05what makes you think things changed to the better for me?23:07
win7macdon't you see I understand that and try to help out?23:08
win7macI'll ping thedead23:10
win7macI know. and indeed there are some more councilors over here, sopposedly...23:15
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win7mac~ seen chem|st23:25
infobotchem|st is currently on #maemo #harmattan #maemo-ssu, last said: 'pong'.23:25
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shawnjeffersonwhat happened to that guy (jacewoski?) that said he'd help out with autobuilder?23:38
DocScrutinizer05he thought it's unbearable to coordinate own actions with sysops23:38
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: the problem though stopping everything from running is 1 script that does not run thanks to a problem with midgard23:39
merlin1991so yes I can pinpoint it down to midgard23:39
DocScrutinizer05to me it seems there's too much running23:40
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shawnjeffersonah, so there was some process he didn't want to follow.  Are all the scripts well understood?  with all the smart guys around here, it seems impossible that it can't be understood and hopefully tweaked to work better.  Ideally it would be nice to have a dev/test environment for all this... they are virtual right?23:43
DocScrutinizer05that's not feasible23:44
shawnjeffersonnot feasible due to money? resources?23:44
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DocScrutinizer05we need ~4..6 VM running concurrently23:45
DocScrutinizer05if not more23:45
shawnjeffersonfor dev/test someone could run that on their workstation23:45
DocScrutinizer05good luck23:45
win7macanthonie tried that, right? - progress so far?23:48
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DocScrutinizer05anthonie tried to install ONE vm with midgard123:48
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DocScrutinizer05midgard is mysql based however23:49
DocScrutinizer05and we can't clone that db in one complete chunk, since it has sensitive data as well23:50
DocScrutinizer05and it is the 2nd vm in that picture23:50
shawnjeffersonnot install, clone. it's how it would be handled in an enterprise.  i understand there are constraints here though.  without a "playground" it's impossible to make significant changes or test things like upgrades23:50
DocScrutinizer05garage with postgresql is 3rd23:50
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DocScrutinizer05autbuilder 4th23:51
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DocScrutinizer05repo 5th23:51
shawnjeffersonsensitive data, I assumed so. you'd have to clone and then scrub the sensitive data. a big job for sure, but worth it imo23:51
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DocScrutinizer05sure, if we find somebody to do that, he can en passant fix the problems we face right now23:52
DocScrutinizer05for sure the competence any such person needs for doing that clonig&scrubbing is sufficient to fix the simple little bugs we have right now easily23:53
shawnjeffersonI imagine that would take a small team23:53
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DocScrutinizer05for example we have scripts with hardcoded mysql account credentials23:54
shawnjeffersonugly but not surprising23:54
DocScrutinizer05and sure, same credentials are in db VM in mysql as well23:54
DocScrutinizer05we have passwd files with 30k user accounts, same for groups23:55
shawnjeffersonat some point you need to make a balance between operations and security and some folks need to be trusted23:55
DocScrutinizer05yes, but I won't hand out clones of our sensitive data23:56
win7macwould the invest in a 3rd blade make sense to have those vm's needed for testing? They could later be used for other purposes23:57
DocScrutinizer05it would help23:57
shawnjeffersonI wouldn't either (security is my day job).  what would we need to have our own dev environment at iphh, under our (your) control?23:57
shawnjeffersona new blade? some storage?23:57
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DocScrutinizer05we've already set up a very limited test env for www VM23:58
DocScrutinizer05with a local mysql to emulate the central one23:58
DocScrutinizer05to test midgard upgrade etc23:59
shawnjeffersonto me it sounds like that is quickly becoming a priority, especially with all the interactions between m.o. systems23:59
win7mac*new blade, some storage and some testers!23:59
shawnjeffersontesters and admins23:59
DocScrutinizer05no manpower to pursue it further23:59
shawnjeffersonand some oversight/planning23:59

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