IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-05-26

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GogoPogohello everyone01:05
GogoPogoanyone there?01:06
GogoPogowhat's this chat for? Maemo suggestions or just talking?01:09
DocScrutinizer05good morning (UGT)01:09
DocScrutinizer05this is the general maemo chat here01:09
DocScrutinizer05axcept maemo6 aka meego-harmattan which is a tiny bit OT here01:10
GogoPogoI'm a new Maemo user and I have to meet its community01:10
DocScrutinizer05you alread met it ;-)01:10
GogoPogojust to see how alive it still is you know01:11
DocScrutinizer05well, we still no zombies01:11
GogoPogoas a N900 owner may I be interested in harmattan too? Is it going to work on older devices as well?01:11
DocScrutinizer05and I heard over at tmo there are still a few 1000 posts per day01:11
DocScrutinizer05nope, harmattan only works on N901:12
DocScrutinizer05(and N950)01:12
GogoPogommm... a pity01:12
DocScrutinizer05you hardly find many users here that would swap fremantle for harmattan on their N90001:13
DocScrutinizer05those who love harmattan got a N9 to use it01:13
GogoPogoI guess that even though maemo5 may become a little outdated my N900 is still a great device and I'd endorse it with another OS rather than switching to N901:14
DocScrutinizer05since it's useless anyway on a device that can't do swipe properly01:14
DocScrutinizer05ever heard of cssu?01:14
GogoPogoheard of yeah, haven't looked into it yet01:14
DocScrutinizer05you maybe should do that01:15
GogoPogoI've had my phone for like.. three days :)01:15
DocScrutinizer05ooh, then just enjoy it for now, and stay away from any weird stuff that promises to optimize anything in maemo for you01:15
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GogoPogoI bought a used phone just to feel comfortable tampering with it :D01:16
DocScrutinizer05fremantle is absolutely optimal as is. Not much you'd want to boost or fix in it01:16
DocScrutinizer05you however should flash it to a factory state01:17
infoboti guess maemo-flashing is
GogoPogoI actually find it very hard that Onion button has been developed but no way to encrypt pidgin has instead..01:17
GogoPogooh thanks, that would be great..01:17
DocScrutinizer05since... you never know what last owner did to the device and particularly to the software/system on it01:17
infoboti heard combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see  or
infobotrumour has it, tabletsdev is
DocScrutinizer05~tabletsdev is also
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0501:19
GogoPogommmm... a lot to know01:20
DocScrutinizer05~tablets-dev is <reply>see tabletsdev01:20
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0501:20
GogoPogoI'm going to flash it I guess01:20
GogoPogoI actually would like to get to know it and its terminal first01:20
DocScrutinizer05start with getting  and flasher-3.5 from tabletsdev01:21
GogoPogoI'm trying all the linux commands I know and they don't work.. I guess I need some documentation over it01:21
GogoPogook, I'll download it now and store till I make up my mind01:22
DocScrutinizer05then follow instructions on, which you should read completely twice, before starting01:22
GogoPogommm.. risky?01:22
DocScrutinizer05in the end usually flashing is mere fun01:22
DocScrutinizer05no risk at all01:22
DocScrutinizer05you always can recover01:22
DocScrutinizer05N900 is basically unbrickable01:22
GogoPogowhich is awesome01:22
GogoPogoI have to dig into encryption tools developed for Maemo5, any heads-up?01:23
DocScrutinizer05just make sure you never forget your towel, err to charge your battery01:23
GogoPogofull loaded battery of course01:24
DocScrutinizer05yeah, double check that01:24
DocScrutinizer05since sometimes N900 doesn't charge when you messed up something in software01:24
GogoPogoI noticed! That's so damn strange of a phone..01:25
DocScrutinizer05which is quite unfortunate since with depleted battery you can't fix the software, and without proper software you can't charge the battery01:25
GogoPogonever seen anything like that before01:25
DocScrutinizer05well, probably almost all phones work in a similar way. Just on other phones you hardly can mess up the software ;-)01:26
GogoPogoI really believed the battery was there waiting to get filled by electric power as a mere energy container...01:26
GogoPogoindeed :D01:26
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GogoPogowhat are your favorite apps?01:27
DocScrutinizer05anyway, welcome!01:27
GogoPogothanks a lot01:27
DocScrutinizer05I'm afk for some TV now#01:27
DocScrutinizer05but this channel is worth staying01:28
DocScrutinizer05for you ;-)01:28
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DocScrutinizer05lots of nice helpful people here01:28
GogoPogook! bye01:28
GogoPogothanks for your help01:28
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, and take care about your USB, it's flimsy01:40
DocScrutinizer05you should tread it like it was made of thin glass01:41
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GogoPogoyeah, I read so... I'm trying to be as careful as possible01:51
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GogoPogoanyone there?02:07
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DocScrutinizer05still 224, incl you02:25
DocScrutinizer05hey, do I know you from some other chan or other nick, or do you use a client that has user name "New Now Know How" per default?02:27
DocScrutinizer05ooh, chatzilla02:27
DocScrutinizer05whatever that is02:27
GogoPogomaybe you're into drupal?02:33
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GogoPogois it possible to have a program developed for linux run on your maemo5?02:39
rikaneeGogoPogo: as long as it's linked to glibc, and built for ARM, why not02:40
GogoPogowell.. that would require much better skills than I currently do anyway02:41
rikaneeGogoPogo: search for Easy Debian02:41
DocScrutinizer05actually commandline programs usually compile right away in scratchbox02:41
DocScrutinizer05most of them02:42
GogoPogoI'm looking up Easy Debian02:42
GogoPogoDoc, source code would be enough ?02:42
DocScrutinizer05except such special stuff like.... cron, xev maybe, rtcwake for sure02:43
DocScrutinizer05GogoPogo: yes02:43
rikaneedon't forget dependencies ;)02:43
DocScrutinizer05there's a whole lot of nice stuff in tools repo02:43
DocScrutinizer05like strace02:44
DocScrutinizer05and whatnot else02:44
GogoPogoI'm better off showing you what I'd like to run maybe02:45
GogoPogo as a Pidgin plugin02:45
GogoPogoI can't understand if it is feasible02:45
GogoPogoyou can download source code and library....02:47
DocScrutinizer05I think somebody asked about otr some months ago in here02:47
GogoPogoit would be so cool.. I use it with my contacts, among PCs and portable devices as well02:49
DocScrutinizer05I faintly seem to recall sth about onion and tor02:50
GogoPogoI already used it, it's great02:50
GogoPogojust a little outdated02:50
rikaneeGogoPogo: your friends use OTR?02:50
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rikaneeman, sigh, people at uni are switching to the new hotness, WeChat02:50
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GogoPogoWeChat, never heard of it :\02:51
rikaneeGogoPogo: IM client owned by Tencent, which I'm 99.9999% sure is a Chinese backdoor02:51
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GogoPogooh... that's disgusting02:53
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Sc0rpiusWeChat is a chinese thing02:53
GogoPogoI really need to learn my way to this community and its resources02:53
Sc0rpiusisn't WeChat extremely popular in China?02:54
DocScrutinizer05  sorry no shorter URL02:54
GogoPogoI swear I had searched the website for it02:54
rikaneeSc0rpius: Tencent owns QQ, which is /the/ IM client in China02:54
Sc0rpiusI see02:54
DocScrutinizer05this however is shorter
rikaneenot quite sure about WeChat, but it looks like it's targeted at more international users02:55
GogoPogorussian people us jabber a lot02:55
GogoPogobut few encrypt their convos02:55
DocScrutinizer05GogoPogo: you still want to compile it from scratch?02:55
GogoPogoDoc, even if I was able to do such a thing I wouldn't be so silly :D02:56
GogoPogoI'm trying to understand how to get it02:57
GogoPogoi'll try through terminal02:57
rikaneeGogoPogo: have you installed rootsh?02:57
GogoPogonot yet .. do I need it ?02:58
GogoPogoI usually use "sudo gainroot"02:58
rikaneeoh, that works well enough, then02:58
rikaneenext, have you activated extras-revel?02:59
GogoPogoI still fear it doesn't gain root though...02:59
GogoPogoare they the app repositories?02:59
rikaneethey're extra app repositories, because apparently pidgin-otr hasn't been promoted to testing or Stable yet03:00
GogoPogothank you very much!03:01
DocScrutinizer05get rootsh!03:01
GogoPogoI need I'll have to install rootsh because I get some permission denied errors..03:01
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DocScrutinizer05you won't be root without03:01
GogoPogoI think*03:01
DocScrutinizer05(unless you sue ssh to login as root to localhost)03:01
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GogoPogothe ssh thing sounds sooo great03:02
DocScrutinizer05but honestly you shouldn't use apt-get unless you understood how HAM works03:02
DocScrutinizer05when you're already in HAM to install rootsh, why not edit catalogs to get extras-devel (or click on one of the extras-devel installfiles) and then install pigin-tor via HAM03:04
GogoPogowhat do you mean by ham?03:04
DocScrutinizer05and while you're at it, you probably could install ssh (server and client) as well03:04
DocScrutinizer05Holdon Application manager03:04
GogoPogothe gui app manager?03:05
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DocScrutinizer05navigate to:03:07
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is
GogoPogowell.. I guess I figured it out.. but I'll make sure I did03:07
DocScrutinizer05with N900 browser03:07
DocScrutinizer05you'll find a link that you can click to install extras-devel and tools repo03:08
DocScrutinizer05this is the link you should click:
DocScrutinizer05read the warning and instructions03:09
DocScrutinizer05in HAM go to menu->catalogs03:09
DocScrutinizer05enable extras-devel catalog, disable the other two catalogs03:10
GogoPogomanual add doesn't work, I'll try with the link03:10
DocScrutinizer05wait for update finishing, then search for pidgin-otr03:10
GogoPogodoes check ssl certificates of the default browser?03:11
rikaneeGogoPogo: all the certs should still be valid03:11
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rikaneeIIRC there was an update issued some time ago to update the revocation list, but SSL just plain works on every site I've been on03:12 might be different, using an individual client-side cert to authenticate user03:13 does03:13
GogoPogoI just wonder why any time I surf to I get "Godaddy approved this website"03:13
rikaneeah, in that case, just add it to the cert store if it's self-signed03:13
rikaneeGogoPogo: that means that GoDaddy is the CA for that website03:13*03:14
GogoPogook great03:14
GogoPogoso SSL is fully working. Absolutely fabolous.03:14
DocScrutinizer05or, in natrual language: godaddy issued the SSL cert of startpage.com03:14
GogoPogook, I guess godaddy can be trusted03:15
DocScrutinizer05in a fullsize browser, you can watch details of the cert by clicking on the SSL icon in URL box or wherever your browser shows it03:15
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DocScrutinizer05might look like a padlock, or a key or sth03:16
GogoPogocan you understand something out of it? I remember having to add manually some of them for my vpn03:16
rikaneeGogoPogo: if certs have to be manually added, it's usually self-signed03:17
DocScrutinizer05yes, vpn needs some certs usually03:17
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DocScrutinizer05you don't want to know details right now03:17
GogoPogoI was pleasently surprised by finding OpenVPN inside HAM :)03:18
DocScrutinizer05rather make sure your HAM can install pidgin-otr03:18
GogoPogoyes I am, it is still updating the catalogue03:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah, there's aplethora of packages available in HAM03:18
DocScrutinizer05that takes an annoying long time, but you are not doing that every day, so just be patient03:19
DocScrutinizer05might take 7 minutes03:19
DocScrutinizer05but eventually it actually finishes ;-)03:19
rikaneeI swear, the repos are filled with almost every Linux desktop program you can think of.03:19
GogoPogothat's more than great03:20
M4rtinKIIRC, there is Mono Develop, Prolog, Java,...03:20
GogoPogoa mobile with all this stuff is above any of my expectations03:20
GogoPogoI installed flash player 11 but it is pretty slow, same to you?03:21
DocScrutinizer05that's a palmtop PC03:21
M4rtinKyeah, it is a bit of an exception though03:21
GogoPogoyoutube as well?03:21
DocScrutinizer05which happens to have a phone built in03:21
rikaneeGogoPogo: Flash is /slow/ on the N90003:21
M4rtinKmost other devices/platforms don't even have package management with dependency support03:21
rikaneeit turns the phone into a pocket warmer.03:21
GogoPogotoo bad it's still found around the web03:22
GogoPogopretty often03:22
rikaneewell, not /that/ often anymore03:22
rikaneenewer websites have dropped flash completely for layouts03:23
GogoPogoI know that03:23
GogoPogoapple rules the market you know03:23
DocScrutinizer05thank digital Deity03:23
DocScrutinizer05flash navigation my ass03:23
rikaneeyup, that was one good thing that came out of Apple's tight-fisted iOS policy03:23
DocScrutinizer05never seen anything more stupid than that03:24
GogoPogowell.. I don't know... Adobe is a corporation that many developers always depended on and it's never a good thing but now well.. it's just Apple's turn..03:24
DocScrutinizer05flash is poor enough a 'solution' for video playback etc03:24
DocScrutinizer05but to abuse it for shit like navigation menues etc is plain braindamaged03:25
GogoPogoyeah it is03:25
DocScrutinizer05uberleete web-"programmers"03:25
GogoPogobtw now you can achieve most magic with css :)03:25
DocScrutinizer05once you're in HAM anyway, you should get openssh (client & server), simple brightness applet, cpu load applet, GSM 2G/3G switcher03:27
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DocScrutinizer05rootsh of course03:28
GogoPogoI guess it got stuck03:29
DocScrutinizer05it just takes eternities03:29
DocScrutinizer05stay patient03:29
DocScrutinizer05I hope you disabled the test repo!03:31
GogoPogo:D nope03:31
DocScrutinizer05it's absolutely useless when you have devel repo eneabled03:31
DocScrutinizer05and it takes twice as long03:31
DocScrutinizer05honestly, you should actually *delete* test repo from your catalogs list03:33
GogoPogook I'll restart it and avoid it03:33
DocScrutinizer05(and I should delete it from that install file903:33
DocScrutinizer05ohmy 10-Oct-201003:35
M4rtinKmemories :)03:35
DocScrutinizer05this whole jrtools page been originally meant for my personal use only03:36
DocScrutinizer05incl the repositories.install03:36
DocScrutinizer05ooh, add notmynokia to the list of stuff to install right away03:38
GogoPogoit's definitely going to take forever!03:38
GogoPogonotmynokia, sounds interesting03:39
DocScrutinizer05it takes 7 minutes with extras-devel only03:39
infobotfrom memory, mynokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or, or
povbotBug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user03:39
rikaneeGogoPogo: most magic with CSS?03:39
rikaneeCSS3 is the magic ;)03:39
rikaneeshape transforms, motion, and with JS, interactivity03:40
GogoPogoindeed :D03:40
rikaneeI made a POC window manager once just to learn all the new tricks03:40
DocScrutinizer05GogoPogo: you can abort it and edit the catalog even when the current update not yet finished03:40
rikaneeProof of concept WM, made in HTML5+CSS3+JS03:40
GogoPogoI still need to find a good manual to study it thouroughly03:41
DocScrutinizer05if nothing else works, close HAM and restart it03:41
DocScrutinizer05still faster than waiting 15min for a useless update to finsih03:41
DocScrutinizer05after closing HAM there's a 60s contemplation&chillout time before it can start again03:42
GogoPogoDoc, is it a file I can manually edit through USB connection?03:42
DocScrutinizer05which one?03:42
DocScrutinizer05the notmynokia?03:42
GogoPogothe catalogues03:42
GogoPogoI can't stand waiting now03:43
DocScrutinizer05no, you shouldn't edit catalogs in file anyway, even if you could03:43
DocScrutinizer05which you can't via USB03:43
GogoPogorikanee it would be awesome to see :)03:43
GogoPogowhy not anyway?03:43
GogoPogowhy I can't via USB?03:43
DocScrutinizer05because HAM has a special unexpected way to handle the catalogs03:44
rikaneeGogoPogo: HAM is like a girlfriend on her period.03:44
rikaneelet's just put it that way.03:44
DocScrutinizer05and via USB you only have access to MyDocs03:44
DocScrutinizer05not to your home dir03:44
GogoPogooh... but I could dpkg a file without including the path in the terminal, like it was in root..03:45
GogoPogoor maybe I didn't :D03:45
GogoPogoI did because... it worked after that03:45
rikaneeGogoPogo: if you'd like to edit files from the comfort of a large screen, you can install a FTP or SCP server03:45
DocScrutinizer05ooh btw you fist should FLASH A CLEAN SYSTEM03:46
GogoPogorikanee that's one hell of a tip! :)03:46
GogoPogonever used SCP before03:46
DocScrutinizer05since you impossibly could have installed anything on terminal via dpkg or apt-get if that was a clean system without rootsh installed03:46
GogoPogodoc I'll learn my way to the system first and then I will surely flash it03:46
GogoPogooh i see!03:47
M4rtinKBTW, you might as well do a backupmenu snapshot :)03:47
GogoPogorikanee: is your POC online ? :)03:49
DocScrutinizer05GogoPogo: reflash, install ssh, enter "sftp://root@n900-IP" into your linux browser (konqueror?) - profit!03:49
rikaneeGogoPogo: nah, I don't have a web server, I'll see if I can throw a zip somewhere.03:50
rikaneebrb, scrounging around my Dropbox for it03:50
DocScrutinizer05browse files like they were on your desktop, open them for editing in kwrite, copy them03:50
GogoPogothat would be very comfortable, thanks03:51
GogoPogoI'll note it down03:51
DocScrutinizer05I sometimes even forget i'm actually on my phone, when I work on it from my desktop PC03:51
DocScrutinizer05remote shell, remote filebrowser, remote editing, whatever you like03:52
DocScrutinizer05I pull files directly from the n900 window into the window, bith sftp://03:52
DocScrutinizer05then I wonder why it takes a bit longer than usual local copy ;-P03:53
GogoPogohow does the work or what is that for?03:53
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DocScrutinizer05 actually03:55
GogoPogowho has the right to upload there?03:55
GogoPogotomorrow I'll signup to the forum03:56
GogoPogoit found 12 updates to my software.. I guess it finished!! FINALLY03:57
DocScrutinizer05don't install the updates!03:57
GogoPogodidn't, just skipped for the moment03:58
DocScrutinizer05yes, good03:58
GogoPogooh good... pidgin-otr is there. I'm almost crying03:58
DocScrutinizer05now search for ssh, pidgin-t*rmpgdsd, notmynokia, simple brightness applet, load applet03:59
DocScrutinizer05and install them03:59
GogoPogosure :)03:59
DocScrutinizer05searching is done by typing on kbd03:59
DocScrutinizer05in category all03:59
GogoPogoI noticed, that's the only way to find your way in such a huge list04:00
DocScrutinizer05after you're done, DISABLE extras-devel catalog again04:01
GogoPogoreally? why? Nothing useful apart from the listed above?04:01
DocScrutinizer05which as a side effect reduces wait time to 1.3004:02
DocScrutinizer05nah, you just don't want it enabled all the time and have those updates from extras-devel pop up every day04:02
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GogoPogoI see04:03
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't accept updates for arbitrary stuff coming from extras-devel04:03
DocScrutinizer05form -devel you pick the packages you want, then disable it again04:03
GogoPogopidgin-otr doesn't seem to work :( but I'll try out different clients tomorrow04:04
GogoPogook, I'll go for the ones you mentioned now04:04
DocScrutinizer05if you want to install an update for a package you already got from extras-devel, you do that manually04:04
DocScrutinizer05you're free to pick others you find interesting, but I wouldb't install too many on a single day. You won't know which one caused what when you do04:05
DocScrutinizer05nah, not apt-get, enable extras-devel and install the new version then diable again04:06
DocScrutinizer05you may use apt-get once you understood how HAM works04:06
DocScrutinizer05and what the different repos are for04:07
GogoPogo dropbear SSH Client and Server? or SCP?04:07
DocScrutinizer05and particularly what commands in apt you never must use04:07
DocScrutinizer05dropbear is kinda... limited04:07
GogoPogoagain, client and server?04:08
DocScrutinizer05it will ask you for a new password to set on root account, iirc04:08
GogoPogoI never set one :\04:09
GogoPogoyeah I know, I mean, I haven't set one yet04:09
GogoPogosince I've had this phone04:09
DocScrutinizer05that's why it does that for you04:09
DocScrutinizer05since otherwise, how would you log in?04:10
GogoPogoyeah you're right :D LOL04:10
DocScrutinizer05ooh would you do me a favour?04:10
DocScrutinizer05in xterm type:04:11
DocScrutinizer05and tell me what it answered04:11
GogoPogouid=29999(user) gid=29999(user)04:11
DocScrutinizer05not type04:12
DocScrutinizer05sudo gainroot04:12
DocScrutinizer05and then id again04:12
DocScrutinizer05now* type...04:12
GogoPogouid=0(root) gid=0(root)04:12
DocScrutinizer05now please type04:12
DocScrutinizer05apt-get policy rootsh04:13
DocScrutinizer05and tell me if it found something04:13
GogoPogohold on04:13
DocScrutinizer05apt-cache policy rootsh04:13
GogoPogo"sudo apt-get policy rootsh" gives me an error04:14
GogoPogoI'll try the latter04:14
DocScrutinizer05why sudo?04:14
DocScrutinizer05I didn't say sudo04:14
DocScrutinizer05you're uid=0(root) gid=0(root), no?04:14
GogoPogoyeah sorry.. I wanted to make sure I was superuser ;)04:15
GogoPogoyeah it found 1.804:15
DocScrutinizer05see, that's why you should reflash04:15
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GogoPogowhat does that mean?04:16
DocScrutinizer05you inherited a system that got already tampered with04:16
DocScrutinizer05somebody installed rootsh04:16
GogoPogosh*t :)04:16
DocScrutinizer05(if apt-cache policy said "installed: 1.8")04:16
DocScrutinizer05(it's normal when it says "available: 1.8")04:17
GogoPogoinstalled: 1.8, cadidate: 1.804:17
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GogoPogook :\04:18
GogoPogoI will flash it04:18
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, you should do that. If only to have the genuine fresh maemo feeling04:18
GogoPogoI will backup the address book and the calendar first04:18
GogoPogoI see :)04:19
DocScrutinizer05good idea04:19
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DocScrutinizer05the built in backup app is doing a great job for that04:19
GogoPogothanks for the tip04:19
GogoPogoI don't know where you are from guys but it's late here, I'm going to bed04:20
GogoPogoit was so useful and nice to talk to you04:20
DocScrutinizer05you should do a complete backup of your files in "MyDocs" via USB04:20
DocScrutinizer05since a complete flash would ^H *will* delete your data there, and backup app doesn't backup that04:21
DocScrutinizer05rather the backups will live there - if you haven't stored them to a uSD04:21
GogoPogooh I see, you're right04:22
DocScrutinizer05yeah, come back tomorrow and start your flashing experience04:22
GogoPogothanks for your help :)04:22
Sc0rpiusDocScrutinizer05, do you fancy those Jolla phones or not yet?04:22
GogoPogomy N900 will be reborn04:22
GogoPogobye bye04:23
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Sc0rpiusyeah are you interested? do you like them?04:23
DocScrutinizer05please rephrase04:23
DocScrutinizer05i'm still in the process to make up my mind04:23
DocScrutinizer05for now I hate their marketing04:23
DocScrutinizer05I'm interested but can't get over that marketing that sells "the other half" like it was best thing since sliced bread, but doesn't give a single hint what that thing actually is04:25
Sc0rpiusI thought it was like something you put like a cover but it mods the phone somehow04:26
DocScrutinizer05there have been several such promos in the last 2 decades, like spreading04:26
Sc0rpiusthe external keyboard looks like will be like that04:26
DocScrutinizer05"drftlbaz! the best, you want it!"04:26
DocScrutinizer05so you hear it every 5 seconds04:26
DocScrutinizer05but NFC what it actually is04:26
DocScrutinizer05until 6 weeks later you find drftlbaz candybar at your gas station04:27
DocScrutinizer05and I hated every single one of them04:27
rikaneeSc0rpius: electrical contacts for expansion options would be all I'd need.04:28
DocScrutinizer05last popular one been "evonincs"04:29
DocScrutinizer05Evonics actually, iirc04:29
DocScrutinizer05"Evonics! We invent the future" everywhere, on the house walls, in TV, everywhere, for 8 weeks04:30
DocScrutinizer05just that04:30
DocScrutinizer05no friggin hint what evonics actually is04:30
DocScrutinizer05sorry, EVONIK04:31
Sc0rpiusI didn't know BB10 run Android apps :/04:31
Sc0rpiusso now every OS has a Dalvik VM as an app.04:31
rikaneeSc0rpius: "Write once, run everywhere"04:33
Sc0rpiusJolla also confirmed SailfishOS would execute Android apps04:34
Sc0rpiusso this is the new trend04:35
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M4rtinKat least on BB10 it doesn't work that well04:45
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M4rtinKalso it is currently based on Android 2.1(or 2.3 ?) API level04:46
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm all for 10 thousand fart apps running under dalvik. For those who need such stuff. As long as that dalvik engine runs on a proper linux04:46
M4rtinKbut many API are actually not available04:46
M4rtinKalso, there are rumors that the preloaded Android runtime (+ Cascades and that Air stuff and maybe that Webworks something) eat all RAM causing the 8 multitasking app limit :)04:47
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rikaneeM4rtinK: I wouldn't be surprised, really04:48
M4rtinKthe problem with Android is, you really need tens of thousands of apps04:48
M4rtinKas most of them are so bad04:48
M4rtinKyou need a large number of them to get a few good ones (gaussian curve in action :))04:49
rikaneeM4rtinK: meh, I guess when you're a tiny player in the mobile market you can't really count on app devs to bother to make a native version04:49
M4rtinKeven the recently sort-of released Skype application for BB10 is an Android port and reportedly it is ultra awful :)04:50
M4rtinKbut yeah, for some niche service frontends it could be better than nothing04:51
M4rtinKbut could have also the opposite effect - people might not make a fully functional native application if there is a sort-of functioning one converted from Android04:52
rikaneefwiw, Magenta already runs iOS binaries flawlessly [*]04:53
M4rtinKon the other hand - why should applications not run on multiple platforms ? :)04:53
M4rtinKthats also my goal, to make my apps run on everything, while minimizing platform dependent code04:54
rikanee(except that Apple "extended" the OpenGL ES API on iOS, and as such breaks when run on Linux+Magenta.)04:54
M4rtinKbut in contrast to just running apps from other platform, my stuff is written to be multi platform04:55
M4rtinKbut if you run stuff tragetting Android & iOS, it might expect functionality that is not there, breaking things or not working at all04:55
rikaneeM4rtinK: well, someone still has to port the runtime ;)04:55
M4rtinKrikanee: not much of a surprise :)04:55
M4rtinKrikanee: yeah, but only ones - that's the nice thing :)04:56
M4rtinKthat's the nice thing on Python04:59
M4rtinKyou just need to compile it for a platform once04:59
M4rtinKand then your (any anybody elses) Python apps will work on the platform05:00
M4rtinKwithout the usual cross-compilation fun & games :)05:00
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M4rtinKyeah, I remember their slogan:05:06
M4rtinK"killing the snake" :)05:06
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M4rtinKand I agree05:07
rikaneeWere any GNOME devs involved?05:07
M4rtinKFSO is quite performance critical, tripple so on the FreeRunner05:07
M4rtinKbut I haven't had performance issues with Python when writing apps in it05:08
rikaneeis the Freerunner really that underpowered?05:08
M4rtinKyou are basically just gluing a bunch of C libs together anyway :)05:08
DocScrutinizer05yeah, for sure true for high level stuff05:09
M4rtinKrikanee: but has a higher Python version (2.7) than the N900 (2.5) :)05:09
DocScrutinizer05but low level stuff like irq handlers etc are impossible to write in python05:09
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M4rtinKbut that is what C is for05:10
DocScrutinizer05that is what mickey used vala for05:10
DocScrutinizer05(well, vala seems a glorified C with some makros)05:10
M4rtinKwell, I've heard some complaints about the quality of he C code it generates05:11
DocScrutinizer05aiui it actually creates C "p-code"05:11
M4rtinKbut can't judge it as I've never worked with it myself05:12
M4rtinKbut I'm using Shtowell (which is written in Valla) and it works just fine05:12
M4rtinKBTW, I think Gnome devs abandoned Valla haven't they ?05:13
M4rtinKat least I think most of the new Gnome stuff is not written in Valla05:14
M4rtinKand quite a lot of Gnome Shell stuff is using Javascript05:14
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M4rtinKand now really good night :)05:20
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infobottheme is probably want gnome-themes?  you probably are looking for the package gtk-theme-switch'.. 'also see packages gtk-engine-*'...13:22
divVerentok, not then... I thought it links to a forum post about some good themes :)13:22
M4rtinKANNOUNCE: the MeeGo Community OBS (COBS) is shutting down on May 29 - backup your stuff !13:23
M4rtinKfor more info, see:
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divVerentcurrently using an-droid, but not because it looks like Android (it does not) but because of good usability (clearly delimited menu items, good even when contrast is low due to sunlight)13:24
_rdDoes mbrola work for anybody? I get only segfaults..... :-(13:30
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M4rtinK_rd: I remember people reporting it works for them13:33
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_rdM4rtinK, indeed, it works, is a good reference.14:02
M4rtinK_rd: good ! :)14:03
M4rtinK_rd: what about putting a short guide how you got it to work on the Maemo wiki ? :)14:03
_rdor add a reference to
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ApicA wonderful splendid Sweetmorn to You all.14:23
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fastlaneu too Apic !14:46
DocScrutinizer05(segfaults) thumbified?14:47
DocScrutinizer05_rd: which binary (where from) do you use?14:48
DocScrutinizer05o/ Apic14:49
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: (cobs) aren't there any mirrors of that stuff?14:50
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DocScrutinizer05you'd think if it is of any importance for a number of people, somebody already should have mirrored it?14:52
DocScrutinizer05(sorry I can't take care, our resources are used up in any possible regard)14:54
DocScrutinizer05HR, storage, RAM, whatnot, on every available iron14:55
M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: well, I've backed up my stuff14:55
DocScrutinizer05that's not what I asked14:55
M4rtinKand RzRs repo as good as I could14:55
M4rtinKand lbt also seems to have backup14:55
M4rtinKbut the main issue is the Harmattan target14:56
M4rtinKwithout it, it is of limited use14:56
M4rtinKqwazix seems to be trying to do something about that14:56
DocScrutinizer05ooh, Nokia proprietary stuff there? then council/HiFo *cant* help14:57
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DocScrutinizer05actually council and HiFo are the only ones who can't do anything about that14:57
DocScrutinizer05Nokia explicitly denied to hand over HARM stuff to HiFo or allow redistribution14:58
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DocScrutinizer05nearly everybody else who's not a chicken could create a mirror14:59
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DocScrutinizer05*we* can't14:59
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: isn't that stuff hosted by OSUOSL anyway?15:00
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DocScrutinizer05sorry I ask those silly questions, but it seems nobody even cares to provide a decent URL pointing to that "MeeGo OBS"15:02
DocScrutinizer05so tbh I have to admit I have no clue where to look at15:03
DocScrutinizer05no URL, no IP, nothing15:03
M4rtinKgood point, I'll add link to the TMO post15:04
qwazixM4rtinK, the easiest solution is to set up a new OBS and sync the target it seems15:05
qwazixI will try to salvage a pc later and install opensuse on it later, they claim OBS has one click install for it15:05
M4rtinKwell, that might work :)15:09
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DocScrutinizer05  ^F: meego15:15
DocScrutinizer05I don't understand *why* this COBS is getting discontinued15:16
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DocScrutinizer05intel alienating the harmattan community?15:16
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DocScrutinizer05or is just discontinued and nobody asked harmattan guys if they'd like to continue at least their sub-services?15:18
qwazixprobably the second15:20
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DocScrutinizer05I don't think OSUOSL would ever reject a request to keep that stuff up (always assuming the COBs is actually located/hosted on OSUOSL infra)15:20
DocScrutinizer05so, the SOP clearly is: a) ask lbt (or whomever it concerns) *why* COBs is going down, *where* it's hosted, and what are the *conditions* of this hosting. b) consider to inherit that hosting from whoever is "owner" right now, prune the stuff that's not HARM related, and continue COBS on same servers with new owners15:23
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DocScrutinizer05since maemo has no manpower to do any admin on COBS, you need to find somebody willing to do that15:24
lbtThe HW is owned by Intel/LF . Intel funded hosting at OSUOSL. Intel have stopped funding and Intel/LF will be recovering their servers.15:25
DocScrutinizer05assuming it's hosted at OSUOSL, write to those guys and ask for continuation of hosting free of charge. Ask lbt/whomever to transfer the whole pile to you (root access, knowhow...)15:26
lbtSo, to be clear. You have 5 days and then they get loaded onto a van and driven away.15:26
DocScrutinizer05lbt: OSUOSL seems to own some servers they recovered from meego. they offered those to maemo.org15:27
lbtOK - I'm only really focussed on the meego OBS atm.15:27
DocScrutinizer05and even if they don't, they have a lot of vservers they might love to offer to anybody willing to continue meego COBS15:28
DocScrutinizer05FIRST URGENT action: ask OSUOSL admins to do a proper disk image of all that stuff15:28
lbtlast I spoke to them they wanted to help but simply hosting a physical machine that we would have to buy/ship to them cost more per month than renting the machine from Hetzner15:28
lbtI don't know why you keep talking about OSUOSL.15:29
lbtThey're not involved15:29
DocScrutinizer05yep, but they have vservers they offer to smaller projects15:29
DocScrutinizer05  ^F: meego15:30
DocScrutinizer05HECK I don't have *any* friggin info of what you guys are doing there. I just deduce from what I see in the interweb and in my email15:30
DocScrutinizer05form OSUOSL15:30
lbtYep - I'm sorry but I don't really have time to start some plan at this late stage.15:31
DocScrutinizer05from both I deduce they *are* involved. But of course it's *you* to share decent precise info about the situation15:31
DocScrutinizer05lbt: fine. So don't I15:31
lbthey, sorry - but it's 5 days from shutdown15:32
lbtit's simply too late15:32
DocScrutinizer05not to state, i'm not involved in HARM at all15:32
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, how long do you need to do a disk image??15:32
lbtI cannot hand out disk images15:33
DocScrutinizer05honestly, you guys are acting in a weird puzzling way15:33
_rdDocScrutinizer05, see
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid maemo council can't help on this issue15:34
M4rtinK_rd: thanks! :) I'll wikify it in a moment15:34
DocScrutinizer05 might easily have ARM thumb binary15:36
DocScrutinizer05which would explain frequent segfaults15:37
DocScrutinizer05@harmattan guys: set up a decent mirror of that stuff wherever you like. can't be that hard. there's nothing council can do for you15:38
DocScrutinizer05neither HiFo board15:39
DocScrutinizer05I strongly suggest contacting OSUOSL about the issue, after all they claim meego is hosted at them. And afaik meego is a FOSS project (otherwise it wouldn't be at OSUOSL to begin with), so OSUOSL might be more than willing to sustain the project and hosting, even when some sponsor steps down15:43
_rdDocScruntinizer05, there is an mbrola package, which segfaults frequently.15:45
_rdI did no see the binary I downloaded segfaulting.15:45
_rdI could not find out though who maintains the maemo package.15:45
_rdThe maintainer in the package is the debian maintainer, I assume the maemo maintainer did not update the the author in changelog unfortunately.15:46
M4rtinKok, so I'll wait with wikifying it till this is resolved :)15:46
DocScrutinizer05though it's arguable if this might be a genuine council task (to contact them), at least *I* lack expertise, background info, and time to do it. And after all all this only makes any sense when somebody of "HARMATTAN community" steps up for the system maintenance, which council *for sure* can't manage or provide15:46
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DocScrutinizer05so bottom line: you want it to stay? then go maintain it, and contact osuosl CC council15:49
DocScrutinizer05ping me if you need mailaddr or sth15:50
_rdM4rtinK, there is no need to install the mbrola package, downloading the binary is sufficient. Though it would be nice, if there would be a proper package, which does not need a wiki page to get it running.15:50
M4rtinK_rd: that indeed would be the best solution15:50
M4rtinKbut aren't there issues with it being under some weird nonfree licence ?15:51
M4rtinKI think that was the biggest blocker15:51
DocScrutinizer05that's not a blocker for a .deb, only a blocker for maemo-extras15:51
_rdDebian has packages in their archive.15:52
DocScrutinizer05we seen other packages hosted on non-maemo sites offered in a .deb with a one-click.install file15:52
_rdi.e. I do not expect any license issue.15:54
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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: ping16:04
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DocScrutinizer05there's "Disabled", "Invited", "Accepted", "Rejected" as options on garage accounts' "Extras Account Status:"16:10
DocScrutinizer05someone a clue what's those states? particularly "Invited"?16:11
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DocScrutinizer05maybe "Invited" means "has applied"?16:11
DocScrutinizer05or got any of you devels *invited* to upload stuff to extras-devel?16:12
DocScrutinizer05alas that friggin administrative mask doesn't show the state of "Extras Account Status:" - just "No Change"            X-/16:14
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GogoPogomaybe you can help me :)17:43
GogoPogoI found in a tutorial that I should have a file inside /etc/apt called preferences which I should manually edit17:44
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GogoPogoI can't find it.. is it normal too?17:44
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GogoPogoI have many other files though17:49
andre__GogoPogo, how did you try finding it?17:52
andre__please explain what you tried and how17:52
GogoPogowhat's the best editing command for X-terminal?17:55
GogoPogoI found the file :)17:55
divVerentGogoPogo: never ask this question17:56
divVerentI use vim, but calling ANY editor the best will sure cause a flame war17:56
GogoPogo:D why?17:56
divVerentvi vs emacs flame wars have long history17:57
GogoPogook I'm new to maemo5 and pico/ue/ued/vim didn't work, only vi seemed to response.. I thought I'd better ask first17:58
divVerentvim can be installed17:58
rikaneeGogoPogo: you may notice a significant amount of keys missing ;)17:58
divVerentprobably some of the others too17:58
rikaneewhich is why remapping needs to be done to do… anything on anything fancier than vi (or nano)17:59
GogoPogohi Doc!17:59
DocScrutinizer05 oops capslock, sorry17:59
divVerentrikanee: on vim, all you really lack is the % key17:59
divVerentwhich I mapped in X11 keyboard mapping17:59
GogoPogorikanee ahahaha you're right!17:59
divVerentalso, it is quite unimportant - jump to matching parentheses17:59
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GogoPogoDoc.. I had misunderstood18:01
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GogoPogoI did find the file, I'll try editing it18:03
DocScrutinizer05this file shouldn't exist18:04
GogoPogoit is inside /etc/purple18:04
DocScrutinizer05the turorial explicitly says >>just **create** (you must be root!) /etc/apt/preferences<<18:05
GogoPogoI'm referring to the latest version of the fix18:05
DocScrutinizer05also wth this is from 201018:06
GogoPogoI know but it deals with the error I get18:06
DocScrutinizer05LOLOL!!! >>Nokia-N900:/# apt-get autoremove<<18:06
GogoPogowhat's funnny with it :D ?18:07
DocScrutinizer05more LOL >>Nokia-N900:/# apt-get upgrade<<18:07
GogoPogoit is nonsense?18:08
DocScrutinizer05well, basically both are officially deprecated18:09
DocScrutinizer05and autoremove for sure is fsckng up your system18:10
NIN101CSSU should ship an apt binary  which warns the user of this when he tries using autoremove etc..18:11
DocScrutinizer05and even when you refer to the latest version of the fix, that doesn't change the fact that this/etc/apt/preferences file shouldn't normally exist on your maemo system18:12
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GogoPogoby creating one will it affect the system ?18:13
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DocScrutinizer05that instruction is about pinning pkg version18:13
DocScrutinizer05the tutorial is rather sloppy18:14
GogoPogo:( I can't find any better as to this problem18:14
DocScrutinizer05it might be basically correct, or it might be terribly obsolete meanwhile. But for sure it has severe bugs, like suggesting apt-get autoremove, or assuming that the file /etc/apt/preferences exists and needs editing, in last post. Of course for original author it existed in last post since he created it in second post already18:16
DocScrutinizer05GogoPogo: no problem. You planned to flash a complete fresh system today anyway, didn't you?18:17
DocScrutinizer05you can redo everything after that, and do it right this time18:18
GogoPogoit was... the disappointment in finding OTR didn't work that lead me to keep trying18:19
DocScrutinizer05first approach: if there's a damn broken lib libgcrypt11_1.5.0 in maemo, first of all you should check if that lib meanwhile got updated with a bugfixed version18:20
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DocScrutinizer05if there's not. I probably rather would copy the plain to the right location and symlink it from old libname, raher then messing up whole pkg database by apt-get -f install and apt-get autoremove and whatnot18:22
DocScrutinizer05err  libgcrypt11_1.4.5-218:22
GogoPogoI'm not so much good at these things..18:23
DocScrutinizer05better first come here and ask someone who is savvy at such stuff, before you follow `! Warning: This is a ugly workaround, for experienced linux-users only !´ tutorials from 201018:24
GogoPogoI thought anyone writing about maemo was somebody from this forum or at least savvy enough :)18:25
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DocScrutinizer05explain the problem you see, point to the tutorial (or other solution) you found [much appreciated!], and ask if it's still applicable and generally a good idea18:25
GogoPogook got it18:26
GogoPogohope no one was offended by presenting an external solution prior to asking18:26
GogoPogoreally no offence intended18:27
DocScrutinizer05well, that guy for sure knew a lot about how to install stuff and why some problems come up. But evidently he suggested some stuff that has isde effects he ignored18:27
DocScrutinizer05no, nobody gets offended by you pointing to a "external" solution. Everybody loves that, it shows you tried to find the answer yourself, and gives a good starting point to investigate and give advice18:28
infobotremember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. <>18:28
infobotwell, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
DocScrutinizer05it suggests exactly this approach you took18:29
GogoPogook great18:30
GogoPogoI'll be medidating for a few hours, getting mentally ready for the flashing deed18:31
GogoPogosee you later18:31
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DocScrutinizer05libgcrypt11 1.4.1-2 been built for fremantle, and it should still be available, e.g in jacekowski's repo mirror. Or ask merlin199118:38
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DocScrutinizer05btw doesn't exist anymore -> (just replace the by
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, that pidgin-otr plugin seems rather orphaned. Somebody should have fixed it since 2010, but obviously nothing happened18:50
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DocScrutinizer05OOOH F U!  had a flash-plugin ad on sidebar that played shit for several days now, and now that konqueror instance has eaten 3.9GB of my RAM18:54
DocScrutinizer05actually no, that been pretty recently, not several days:
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M4rtinKwell, I've seen gnome terminal eat 6+ GB twice in the last few days :)18:56
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DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: any idea what's wrong with this pidgin-otr stuff?19:04
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M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: well, I've used it a few years ago between Linux PCs and it worked fine19:05
DocScrutinizer05in short says that doesn't work with
M4rtinKwhat issues does it have ?19:06
M4rtinKmaybe a protocol or library API change ?19:09
M4rtinKlibrary change seems more likely when that workaround described in the thread19:10
M4rtinKlike returning some string that breaks the dialog19:10
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DocScrutinizer05weird that nobody fixed that issue19:12
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DocScrutinizer05also lol @  -> "build failed"19:16
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M4rtinKthat was the working one ?19:18
DocScrutinizer05quite possibly libcrypt broke ABI/API, and thus pidgin-otr-3.2.0-6 build faled and maintainer "fixed" it19:18
M4rtinKwell, if someone fixed it , OTR would definitely nice to have19:18
DocScrutinizer05yup, users claim they used it without problems19:18
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DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: could you maybe try to build it again, and see what's happening?19:19
M4rtinKshouldn't be that difficult19:19
M4rtinKyou mean locally ?19:19
DocScrutinizer05wherever you deem fit19:19
M4rtinKhaven't build a Maemo 5 package locally in like 2+ years19:20
DocScrutinizer05of course we might like to see it in extras-devel in the end19:20
M4rtinKI can add it to my TODO list, but I'll probably won't get to it any time soon19:22
M4rtinKTODO list is kinda long already :)19:23
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DocScrutinizer05longer than this one? ;-)
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M4rtinKwhat's with that one ?19:27
M4rtinKcleanup loop ?19:30
DocScrutinizer05don't you think it has a too long list of cleanup events?19:30
DocScrutinizer05the pleasures of inheriting a borked complex system, without any doxs on how stuff is supposed to work19:31
M4rtinKthen I can report another broken feature when we are at it :)19:32
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M4rtinK"Download statistics" graphs don't work on Downloads19:32
M4rtinKif you visit:
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M4rtinKand click "Download statistics", it only shows an error message19:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I know19:34
M4rtinKmight be also the cause why the helpful unofficial download statistics page ( stopped working19:34
M4rtinKgood, just letting you know19:34
DocScrutinizer05whole is one huge mess19:35
M4rtinKAnd thanks again for all the work up to now - as basically everything else seems to work just fine. :)19:35
M4rtinK(from user perspective)19:35
DocScrutinizer05alas not19:35
DocScrutinizer05promotion doesn't work19:35
DocScrutinizer05new accounts don't work19:35
DocScrutinizer05statistics don't work19:35
M4rtinKmaemo or TMO ?19:35
DocScrutinizer05karma doesn't work19:35
DocScrutinizer05tmo is almost the best and cleanest of them19:36
M4rtinKwell, that's all kinda serious19:36
M4rtinKbut still workable for the time being IMHO19:36
DocScrutinizer05alas we can't maintain it in that state19:37
DocScrutinizer05and for devels it's basically useless right now19:37
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DocScrutinizer05feels like Apollo1319:41
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M4rtinKbut without the 50 thousand engineers behind our back :)19:43
DocScrutinizer05I'm just wondering if I should delete the other looping obsolete packages in nellisquare as well19:43
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: yeah, and with no planet earth anway near front of me19:44
M4rtinKit fails to remove the file so it loops forever or what ?19:45
DocScrutinizer05it's not like this will fix/solve itself eventually if only we manage to stay alive for 4 days19:45
M4rtinKat least we are not that much limited by oxygen and power reserves19:46
DocScrutinizer05I dunno what cronjob is doing that, where it logs to, not to talk about any idea what's the root cause19:46
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M4rtinKa custom job alright19:46
M4rtinKI bet they said something like "wee need it working NOW, well clean it all up for Maemo 6"19:47
DocScrutinizer05I'm fed up with it and will delete the other packages as well now19:48
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M4rtinKwell, it could indeed become a problem19:51
M4rtinKif it started to happen with lower period or for more packages19:51
M4rtinKso you are just deleting the old packages ?19:51
DocScrutinizer05hope so19:52
DocScrutinizer05I probably already nuked 4.8 in testing19:53
M4rtinKI hope only the obsolete version :)19:53
DocScrutinizer05well, for extras-testing 4.8 seemed to be the most recent version19:55
DocScrutinizer05lingering on there since err years19:55
DocScrutinizer05waiting to get promoted19:56
M4rtinKwell, 4.8 in Extras would be nice :)19:56
M4rtinKbut might break all the 4.7 workarounds in P1.3 apps19:57
M4rtinKIIRC Extras has 4.7 something ?19:58
M4rtinKwron 4.8/4.7 :D19:58
M4rtinKnot Qt 4.7/4.8 :D19:58
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* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks20:08
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M4rtinKit seems to run in 4 round bursts, every 4 to 5 hours20:13
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M4rtinKhmm, looks like the burst is based on number of old packages20:14
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M4rtinKthat could indeed escalate quite badly once enough old packages accumulate20:14
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* RzR #MeeGo #ObS repo about to shutdown !n950club plz submit your src to "home:rzr" I'm backuping20:38
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DocScrutinizer05on an unrelated OT topic: I ordered another MX5500 today, seems they become rare. Some fools already offer the MX revolution mouse @ 300EUR21:23
M4rtinKstill rocking with MW518 :)21:24
M4rtinKoh, its actually MX51021:25
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M4rtinKhmm, MX5500 indeed looks nice :)21:26
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DocScrutinizer05anybody who needs a MX5500 BT keyboard? I have no use for them21:35
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DocScrutinizer05((<M4rtinK> it seems to run in 4 round bursts, every 4 to 5 hours)) to me it seems more like those jobs run roughly every 5 minutes21:42
M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: well overall21:43
M4rtinKfor individual packages it looks like about 4 hours21:43
DocScrutinizer05hmm not really21:44
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Sc0rpiusa "promotion to testing" crob should run like once a day or something, not 5 minutes21:49
Sc0rpiusso you can take this opportunity to revise all tht21:49
Sc0rpiusthere must be like hundreds of jobs there21:49
Sc0rpiuss/crob/cron job21:49
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M4rtinKwell, even every two hours would still be sane21:52
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GeneralAntillesI still can't believe Logitech crippled the MX Revolution.21:56
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DocScrutinizer05a shame22:07
DocScrutinizer05this fake that switches modes via a mechanical button under scrollwheel, that's so *silly*22:08
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Sc0rpiusI have a Logitech mouse that the battery lasts for 3 years22:15
Sc0rpiusthose are the best mice Logitech makes22:16
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: free wheeling mode vs click mode22:33
DocScrutinizer05for the scrollwheel22:34
DocScrutinizer05you can scroll a 40k lines in one minute22:34
DocScrutinizer05and in MX Revo and MX5500 those modes are switched by a motor that gets controlled by a uC in the mouse22:35
DocScrutinizer05per default it's progarmmed to switch modes when pressing that "button-6" under the scrollwheel, but the really useful setting is to have a scrollwheel speed threshold above which it goes turbo22:37
DocScrutinizer05so with normal speed scrolling you can go line by line, click by click, while when you speed up and give the wheel a proper kick, it doesn't stop spinning for 10s22:39
DocScrutinizer05doing this switching with a mechanical button to toggle the clutch is absolutely useless22:40
DocScrutinizer05yet it's what they sell now as official successor of the MX Revolution (and MX5500) mouse22:41
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qwazixbrkn, ping22:52
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brknping received xD23:00
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ApicGood Nite!23:12
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Win7MacI'm quite happy with my Performance MX23:31
Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, I'd be interested in that BT-keyboard23:31
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