IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-05-24

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GeneralAntillesIf in doubt, just get the no-cost option.00:01
n900-dkwhat dbus signal will make omp start playing last song?00:02
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DocScrutinizer51n900-dk: destination is mafw, not omp00:18
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DocScrutinizer51or maybe I'm wrong hee00:19
DocScrutinizer51ask MohammadAG00:19
merlin1991n900-dk: you can only launch omp with a specific song00:20
zammyI don't get updates on debian on easydeb00:20
merlin1991to play the last song you have to target mafw00:20
n900-dkmerlin1991: how can I launch omp with a specific song?00:21
merlin1991it has some dbus method, it's the generic maemo dbus method for giving a prgram a file00:22
merlin1991lemme see if I can find it00:22
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merlin1991hm where the fuck where the sources?00:24
merlin1991n900-dk: mime_open is the method00:26
merlin1991n900-dk: see
merlin1991omp implements the same interface00:26
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n900-dkok, thanks00:29
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merlin1991 section "Using hildon-mime-open" also adds a bit information00:33
n900-dkwell, actually dbus signal works with omp after changing omp to default media player00:43
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Sc0rpiusmerlin1991, promoting to extras-testing doesn't work since the migration, does it?00:51
merlin1991along the lines00:51
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Wizzupwell, I finished the ebuild ... now for .deb ;-)00:55
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DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: might have changed recently, since we were able to restore huge parts of that notorious repligard mysql table02:04
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: there might still some cronjob be missing02:04
DocScrutinizer05since *somebody* disabled ~97% of cronjobs and now nobody knows which need to get re-enabled or even fixed prior to that02:05
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DocScrutinizer05[techstaff notice] wiki VM gone south with xen VIF error04:56
DocScrutinizer05I'll not reboot it until one of our experts had an eye on it04:56
DocScrutinizer05so prepare for some 4..8h downtime04:56
DocScrutinizer05we might even need to reboot blade-b to recover04:57
Sc0rpiuswe thought you were the expert05:00
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Snafu777Well, glad to see the room is hoppin tonight06:50
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RaimuHey, random n900 camera app question.08:32
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RaimuIs there a way to enable the camera flash and video recording so that the flash provides a small floodlight for the recording?08:34
RaimuI noticed my spouse's Android camera has that feat and thought it was neat.08:35
kerioRaimu: with nicocam, press t08:55
keriofor "torch", i guess08:55
RaimuHehey, thanks! Somehow I'd totally missed that.08:56
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ApicA wonderful good Morning on this splendid Prickle-Prickle.10:58
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teotwakianyone remember that article, a few years back, about an IT guy who worked for some mafia?12:06
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divVerentstupid but possibly fun Maemo question...12:12
divVerentis it possible to leave USB mass storage mode without unplugging the USB cable?12:12
divVerent(to go back to charging only)12:13
divVerentand if it is possible (I would guess it is, if necessry, by unloading this USB storage provider module then moutning the filesystems again by this *-mmc-*.sh script)12:14
divVerentwhy isn't it offered from the status menu2~?12:14
sixwheeledbeastdivVerent: can you not just eject (unmount) it on the computer?12:16
divVerentsixwheeledbeast: I did12:16
divVerentbut then the N900 stll doesn't mount it12:16
divVerentand it is right there - I might want to mount it again12:16
freemangordon_divVerent: rmmod g_file_storage12:16
divVerentfreemangordon_: that was my idea, but it probably doesn't notify the status applet right12:16
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freemangordondivVerent: it does12:17
divVerentand it then automatically mounts everythign again?12:17
freemangordonyou're asked12:17
freemangordonwell, at least you should be asked12:17
divVerentbut ok12:17
divVerentso all of this is possible12:17
freemangordonif I read you question right, yes12:17
divVerentwhy doesn't the status menu offer it?12:17
freemangordondivVerent: write a replacement, we'll include it in CSSU :p12:18
divVerentoh, this part is still closed source12:18
divVerentok, this rmmod command was not wise to do :)12:19
divVerentit from then on also didn'rt detect plugging in USB any more12:19
divVerentbut that was to be expected, that something like this would happen when the system services don't know about it properly12:20
divVerentso possibly a wiser way to do this would be to somehow fake the USB unplug notification (I bet this works by dbus, like everything else on Maemo)12:20
freemangordondivVerent: just do insmod after that12:28
freemangordondivVerent: see the parameters in (or whatever was it called)12:29
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divVerentah, that was the script name12:35
divVerentone of the osso scripts :)12:35
freemangordondivVerent: iirc it is in /usr/sbin12:35
divVerentah, yes12:37
divVerentit tells the module to remove the USB devices12:37
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freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: thedead1440: both of you are councilors, ain't?12:44
thedead1440freemangordon: yes i'm for MCC and 6wheeled is for HFC12:44
freemangordonok. I need some "official" to take it from here
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freemangordonat least we need that discussed first, beforo contacting Ittiam again12:46
freemangordonIf the project "Porting Ittiam HD codecs to N900" kicks, we'll have to have agreement inside the community that we want to do it12:47
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freemangordonand some fundraising should be done12:47
sixwheeledbeastBring it up in #maemo-meeting, I may not be available again. Due to RL plus internet intermittent issues. Only just catching up on logs of last week.12:48
thedead1440freemangordon: you have the best technical knowledge of those codecs so i think during today's council meeting you can bring this up for a council response12:48
freemangordonunfortunately I'll be travelling by the time of the meeting12:48
freemangordonthat is why I am contacting you now :)12:49
thedead1440ok i'll bring it up during council meeting then12:49
freemangordonto include that as a topic in today's meeting12:49
merlin1991I might be able to be around12:49
freemangordoni guess we'll need some poll on TMO, as if it turns out only 5 people are interested... ;)12:50
thedead1440freemangordon: polls don't get that many votes; let council come up with a response and when it comes to dollars and cents interested people will raise their voices via their wallets12:50
freemangordonok, I am fine either ways12:51
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freemangordonthedead1440: BTW what has happened with Bod elections?13:05
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: please register and id with nickserv!13:12
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: how to do that?13:12
DocScrutinizer51/msg nickserv help13:13
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: ok. though I don't have time now13:13
DocScrutinizer51it's a 60s job13:13
DocScrutinizer51/msg nickserv help register13:14
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ShadowJKmeasured by irc users, jolla is now more alive than #maemo ;p13:44
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sixwheeledbeastmore people in room != "more active".13:56
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ruskieI wonder how soon the jolla devices will be rooted and all that13:59
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ShadowJKI hope it's not needed14:25
ShadowJKby that I mean I hope it's like Maemo: download root14:27
ShadowJKfrom appstore14:27
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divVerent13:27:00         ShadowJK | by that I mean I hope it's like Maemo: download root14:50
divVerent13:27:06         ShadowJK | from appstore14:50
divVerentit will still have aegis, a quite effective sandbox/binary signing system14:51
sixwheeledbeastI'd hope it was better than maemo14:51
divVerenthowever, the big question is - is root enough for what I would do EVEN with aegis active14:51
divVerentit may be just all I need14:51
divVerentI mean, on Maemo, I wouldn't really need root for what I do14:51
divVerentapart from the command line apt-get interface I don't do much as root14:51
divVerentand the hack to disable IPv6 due to a bug in cutetube to be fixed soon :)14:51
Wizzupfor accessing certain /dev/ files etci t is nice14:52
divVerentnice but not necessary for productive use14:52
divVerentto compare, on iOS a jailbreak is necessary for productive use (to be able to share data between apps), too bad it turns off the sandboxing entirely14:52
divVerenton Android, one can live pretty well without rooting it, as one STILL has a command shell, can run one's own code (via third party app installation)14:53
divVerentand apps can share data via e.g. the SD card area14:53
divVerentso whether that Jolla thing will be actually useful without rooting is not known yet :)14:54
WizzupdivVerent: well, for some programs /dev/ access is required...14:54
divVerentwhat I also need is SOME good file synchronization method over WLAN usable by Linux14:54
WizzupdivVerent: sshfs?14:54
divVerentlike, ssh14:54
Wizzupit'll run ssh obviously14:54
divVerentyes, but for that you need a sshd14:54
WizzupWhy would it not?14:54
divVerentand be able to log in as a user14:55
divVerentthat's not supported on iPhone14:55
WizzupiPhone doesn't use Mer...14:55
divVerentthing is14:55
divVerenthow hardened IS that jolla thing14:55
divVerentthat is still to be found out, or even, to be decided14:55
divVerentthey, as the (now) developer, can choose to include thsi functionality or not14:55
divVerentalso, I need rsync too :)14:55
divVerentideally, that is14:56
divVerenton Maemo it all is available14:56
divVerentif there is no way to make a rsync binary work (on ANdroid there is, if needed, by self built apk)14:56
WizzupdivVerent: I'm not sure what you're rambling on about. I doubt this will be much of a problem.14:56
divVerentone can still use sshfs + a local rsync run14:56
divVerentWizzup: it just isn't known yet14:56
divVerentJolla keeps pretty quiet about details14:56
WizzupThey use Mer.14:56
divVerentbut they can screw it up any way they want14:57
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divVerentthey also use Aegis to lock it down14:57
divVerentso their "lockdown" concept may just not allow SSH14:57
Wizzupyes, and the world may explode any second14:57
divVerentthing is, Apple makes such a locked down device and is successful14:57
jaskathe world exploding is preferable to suffering with aegis14:57
divVerentthing is, WOULD I suffer with aegis :)14:57
divVerentit all depends on how well the rest works for my purposes14:57
divVerentif the device is locked down, I can't go beyond what the vendor intended14:57
divVerentunrooted Android is e..g open enough for my purposes14:58
WizzupI imagine there would certainly be a way around it. And that's all you can wonder.14:58
divVerentI would prefer it without needing a way "around it"14:59
divVerentas these "ways around it" tend to come with disadvantages14:59
divVerente.g. if you jailbreak iOS, you also lose app sandboxing, which is quite good to have14:59
divVerentI would actually WANT app sandboxing, BUT I'd like to have control over it15:00
divVerentlike on Blackberry :)15:00
divVerentAndroid has a pretty weak sandbox concept (due to which any app can read your photos, like it or not)15:00
divVerentbecause SD card data is not protected in any way15:01
divVerent(fixable if you have root, obviously)15:01
divVerentactually, MAYBE reformatting the SD card with ext3 and setting proper file system ACLs on the root node would suffice :)15:01
divVerentto implement a rule like "only the creator of a folder can use it unless administrator sets the ACLs otherwise"15:02
divVerentI will soon have an Android device and then try out these things to lock it down a bit further15:02
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Wizzupcare to link to this aegis project?15:03
Wizzupgoogle only turns up games.15:03
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divVerentWizzup: either scroll up here, it gets mentioned often15:06
divVerentor look for aegis on github, there is a derived project there15:06
divVerentbasically, it is yet another executable sandbox15:06
divVerentand the claim is that Nokia did it right, as opposed to Apple15:06
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divVerentone thing they do that Apple does not is on-boot integrity checking of startup related files15:08
divVerentso even if you can break it, it'd be quite challenging to make the "jailbreak" permanent15:08
rikaneedivVerent: fyi, the entire boot chain on iOS devices is signed15:08
divVerentrikanee: apparently, not completely15:09
divVerentbut ok, then Apple tried the same15:09
divVerentapparently, because how else do jailbreaks get stored persistently? :)15:09
divVerentkernel is signed, boot loader is read only15:09
divVerentand kernel does binary verification on all executables15:09
rikaneedivVerent: AMFI is patched to ignore those checks either through misplaced binaries, or misplaced executables15:10
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WizzupI just don't know why you're doubting the people behind Jolla, I mean, sure, I have my doubt about the company as a whole as well. But I don't doubt that they will make an open device.15:10
divVerentWizzup: there has been some interview with the CEO that basically said that the device will be locked down, BUT Jolla will also release a "developer version"15:11
divVerentand I would expect this developer version to be quite a lot more expensive than the normal one15:11
WizzupWhy do you expect it to be?15:12
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rikaneedivVerent: that'd harbor negative attention from Maemo and MeeGo users though.15:12
rikaneedivVerent: also, regarding sandboxing, I agree that Android did it right, but it didn't go far enough.15:14
rikaneeiOS makes apps write all their data to their own private folder, Android should enforce that too15:14
rikaneedata shared with other apps e.g. photos, music, etc. should be exposed via API to standard locations in /sdcard.15:15
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divVerentrikanee: just read about AMFI...15:17
divVerentso the main issue is that launchd.conf is not integrity checked :)15:17
divVerenttogether with a symlink traversal issue in unpacking backups15:17
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divVerentdamn, the symlink issue I almost found before...15:18
divVerentused it to browse the iPhone FS via a FTP server app15:18
rikaneedivVerent: technically, only binaries are checked15:18
divVerentby putting a ../../../../../ symlink into an app's Documents folder15:18
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divVerentI should have tried making a zip file that ALSO has a symlinkname/foo file :)15:18
divVerentrikanee: which is the mistake :)15:18
divVerentone thing Aegis does extra is some on-boot verification of most /etc stuff15:19
rikaneedivVerent: it'd be too CPU-intensive to sum and sign every single file, so Apple depends on the fact that binaries are normally not touched and touchable by anything15:19
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rikaneegiven that all text files aren't signed, the hilarious part of the evasi0n jailbreak was that it used a shell script to remount / as rw15:20
divVerenthaha, next iOS bug was that signing only signs text... wouldn't have expected Apple to be THAT clueless15:20
divVerentrikanee: I considered that the least interesting part15:20
divVerentas it shows no OS flaw15:21
divVerentif I had coded binary signing, I probably would have made it verify the executable header AND all sections except for the signature section15:21
divVerentjust signing .text... I guess I now know how to crack ads out of iOS apps :)15:21
divVerent(ok, my previous way was to block the ad servers on my DNS)15:22
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: last info is "the recent SDK for sailfish has NO aegis-alike functionality"15:25
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divVerentwell, the SDK doesn't necessarily need to have it15:25
divVerentif signing is performed when uploading an app to the "store"15:25
divVerentbut, we'll see in the end15:25
divVerentit may even be open enough without any rooting/jailbreaking15:25
DocScrutinizer05yes it does, if you want to write apps that actually work on the final platform15:25
divVerentonly if these apps use aegisfs15:26
divVerenti.e. store/use secret data15:26
divVerentotherwise, they'd be signed when you upload them15:26
divVerentor not?15:26
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rikaneea security platform on the kernel can work with the OS to redirect calls transparently.15:26
DocScrutinizer05that's the whole point of this shit that you need permissions/tokens for about everything you do15:26
divVerentright, THAT part can not be tested then15:26
divVerentthat is, if you asked for all necessary permissions15:26
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: thanks, I'm always interested in the low-level side of sandboxes15:27
divVerentbut in the end we'll see15:27
divVerentit MAY even be open enough without even root15:27
rikaneedivVerent: actually, another approach would be to discard asking for permissions altogether, and simply disallow certain calls/redirect filesystem access on the fly15:27
divVerentrikanee: which is what iOS does15:27
divVerentthat you see apps asking for permission before reading your photos is only a requirement of the store, but not technically enforced15:28
divVerent(enforced by review only, that is)15:28
rikaneedivVerent: it'd be like SELinux, if implemented15:29
divVerentthey of course use some "red flags" in the review process, i.e. the permission dialog is shown by a known API, and the images can only be accessed via another API15:29
divVerentmaking it quite straightforward to see if an app needs to be tested for doing this right or not15:29
divVerentif it doesn't use the image retrieval API, nobody will test if a dialog pops up15:29
divVerentrikanee: with the one exception of who's under control :)15:30
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WizzupI giggled at the [X] I am a spammer19:34
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WizzupDocScrutinizer05: okay, made the garage account, have initial tgz and other files made with py2deb, now I'll wait for my account to be allowed to upload to extras-devel :-)19:38
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infobot:), DocScrutinizer5121:05
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