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| kerio | i really hope this version of the bme replacement doesn't have the forced shutdown on SEDV1, or i won't be able to calibrate it :s | 00:34 |
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| Raimu-X | Where can I download the bme-rep now? | 00:46 |
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| kerio | ~bme-replacement | 00:51 |
| infobot | bme-replacement is probably http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/projects/maemo/bme-replacement.html See also: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bme_replacement . Please, use wiki page to report bugs/problems and/or solutions to them! | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | request for community feedback: we plan to switch maemo.org VM filesystem (ext3) to support ACL(5) - are there any known issues, tips, bugs, flaws, whatever, around ACL and ext3 and ubuntu12.04? | 03:18 |
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| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: tried doing it for a shared file repository involving a thin client setup, and it works just fine, the ACL handling code is fairly mature. | 03:23 |
| rikanee | Although, I'd advise migrating to ext4 as ext3 isn't particularly friendly to unclean unmounts. | 03:24 |
| cehteh | for what do you need ACL's .. imo they only make things more complicated, backup tools need to support them and a lot other issues can show up | 03:29 |
| cehteh | consider if just adding a few more unix groups would work as well | 03:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | adding a few more unix groups would require that we have full comprehensive knowledge about any tools that use the current file group of file xy, and if there's any such tool that depends on a particular group on file xy, we obviously can't assign a new group to xy | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | above rationale applies particularly for all those root:root files the we want to allow access by maintainer of that subsystem the file belongs to | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our backup tools also need to support mysql dumps prior to doing a (incremental live) backup | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they will learn to handle getfacl -R as well | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and setfacl <acl-backup.txt, for restore | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure ACL make stuff "more complicated", since they are a copy of the more complicated situation and requirements we need to get handled | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however I am quite interested to hear about those other issues in detail | 03:51 |
| cehteh | yes, admin headache .. if you want to go that way have fun | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, what's the added headache, when ACL are stricly supplementary to what we have currently? | 03:52 |
| cehteh | also from security standpoint ... evey executable and script and the dirs thereof need to be mangaged/supervised not that someone has an ACL allowing to modify stuff which is not oblivious by looking at standard unix permission | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have headache since we need to give maintainers root permissions just to allow them reading a few logfiles or whatever. ACL will rather be the cure for that headache | 03:53 |
| cehteh | i admit in few cases ACL's make sense, but I'd first consider everything else :) | 03:53 |
| cehteh | for admins it adds complexity, for users it adds confusion | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have no users | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, it adds complexity, but that's the complexity of the situation | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a more simple solution is: everybody is in group sudo | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and THAT gives _me_ real headache | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you could try to handle all that stuff with sophisticated sudoers rules | 03:57 |
| cehteh | i dont know your exact setup but would be adding groups and few setgid dirs do already? | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which for sure is more complex than ACL | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see above | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have lots of existing files with more or less "fixed" grups | 03:58 |
| cehteh | yes .. well i agree with your sudo thoughts, i have no sudo on servers | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | root:root, root:www-data, ... | 03:59 |
| cehteh | if you think you can handle the acl's and you know all your tools/use-cases (backup, chrootkit, logging, whatever) will work with ACL's go ahead | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we can't chown :myleetenewgroup thefiles, without breaking stuff | 03:59 |
| cehteh | if so, thats pita | 04:00 |
| cehteh | cant you fix this one by one? | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we plan to fix other things | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is why we need those access permissions for maintainers | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and there's a thing called ACL that seems to do what we need | 04:02 |
| cehteh | have fun then, it was just my opinion that ACL's are in most case not worth the trouble | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, we use them for maintenance only, not for productive stuff | 04:02 |
| cehteh | when you find out that backups cant be restored correctly, or things slip under the radar, ... | 04:02 |
| cehteh | rsync supports acl's since some time but i remmeber there where bugs handling them for example | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then we are back to where we are right now | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if whole ACL stuff goes poof, we are no worse than today | 04:04 |
| cehteh | ok | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we have all the time in the world to figure why it went haywire and fix it, since... it's only for granting maintainers access to root stuff selectively | 04:05 |
| cehteh | i mean unix permissions are certainly not that great either, they are very very simplicistic | 04:05 |
| cehteh | but that makes them easily understand and manageable on the other hand, which is a huge win when you think about security, you certainly trade some flexibility for that | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since the alternative is granting root permissions | 04:07 |
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| cehteh | yeah thats not an alternative | 04:07 |
| cehteh | the only alternative would be umask and setgid dirs .. if that doesnt work for you use ACL's | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for the chat | 04:08 |
| cehteh | maybe in the long run you can fix thing at least in most places to work with setgid dirs and remove the ACL's one by one | 04:09 |
| cehteh | and linux acls are at least more sane than the acl's in windows :) | 04:10 |
| cehteh | more regular | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 04:10 |
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| Macer | ok wth | 07:28 |
| Macer | this is the strangest thing | 07:28 |
| Macer | i can bluetooth tether | 07:28 |
| Macer | but the n900 won't connect to tmobile :-/ | 07:28 |
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| Macer | wtf. this is like the weirdest thing ever | 07:51 |
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| narcos | Hi all. I have two N900s - I'd previously set them both up to run a script on boot, but had disabled one some months back. I can't seem to get the startup script to run now. I have a file in /etc/event.d/ - is this the correct approach? | 11:38 |
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| narcos | Meh, "endscript" should be "end script" | 11:41 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if somebody could provide long term graphs of the number of users in this channel - might be interesting. Particularly when also netsplits are marked (though probably you can tell those easily by sudden drops od number-of-users) | 14:46 | |
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| * MohammadAG wonders how to add a \t to the start of every new line | 14:56 | |
| MohammadAG | sed 's/^/\t/g' | 14:58 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: maemo midgard package interface bug: package callnotify from extras-devel was promoted to extras-testing, but still missing in extras-testing (since 2013-04-06 11:23) http://maemo.org/packages/view/callnotify/ | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I guess all promoting is broken | 15:01 |
| Pali | same for package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fiasco-image-update-ask/ | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: you can save the /g, since ^ only occurs once per line | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: so /g does nothing except slow down execution by at least factor 2 (for the core process loop) | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | sed 's/^/\t/g' | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | oops | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | thanks DocScrutinizer05 :D | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | now I'm stuck at doing functions with parameters | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | seems like a normal $n should do it | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in sed? | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG | no, bash | 15:05 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: same for package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/ipv6-support/ | 15:06 |
| Pali | when will be promoting working again? | 15:06 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: maybe bug in midgard, look at log of this package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kbd/ | 15:08 |
| Pali | why is this log very big? | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | damn netsplits and server outages | 15:09 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: what happened 2013-05-11 03:26 UTC with package interface? | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-14 14:05:25] <MohammadAG> no, bash | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-14 14:06:14] <DocScrutinizer05> well, where's the problem? think of every function as a separate script(-file) | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-14 14:07:02] <DocScrutinizer05> and invocation of the function as a normal cmdline invocation of a script | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-14 14:07:22] <DocScrutinizer05> that's just vfine for a first approach to how it works | 15:09 |
| Pali | it imported kernel-power-bootimg v52 to extras-devel, see: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-bootimg/ | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: how am I supposed to know? | 15:10 |
| Pali | did not you restarted or did somehing? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I personally did nothing | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't know of anybody else doing sth | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask merlin1991 | 15:11 |
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| Pali | merlin1991: ping | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we had fun with wiki/bugs VM last week | 15:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not aware of anybody tweaking stuff in midgard or autobuilder or repo | 15:13 |
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| ludens | so.. i'm reading at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Maemo_5_SDK_installation_for_beginners#Scratchbox_installation : "Nokia binaries are provided via an APT repository and it is necessary to accept the Maemo 5.0 (Fremantle) SDK End User License Agreement. There is a token at the end of the agreement page and you need to type it in order to be redirected to a page with your repository line." | 15:57 |
| ludens | clicking that link ( http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php ) only takes me to an error page. does anyone know how i can obtain the token mentioned+ | 15:57 |
| ludens | ? | 15:57 |
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| Pali | ludens: http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/eula/index.php | 15:59 |
| ludens | Pali: \o/ thank you! | 15:59 |
| Pali | ludens: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com is now on http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev | 16:00 |
| ludens | i see | 16:00 |
| ludens | great | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and Pali fixed that very token thing :-) | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I added a wiki page, so you *could* find the same instructions there | 16:24 |
| ludens | cool | 16:27 |
| ludens | hey i dont need to run X11 in order for the system to work, right? | 16:27 |
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| ludens | i mean i just want to build a program and make a .deb for it | 16:28 |
| merlin1991 | that goes without X11 | 16:28 |
| merlin1991 | Pali: pong | 16:28 |
| merlin1991 | and Pali I didn't touch anything | 16:29 |
| ludens | yeah thought so, great | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ludens: you mean the xephyr (or what's the name) X11 server? That's only needed for the (pretty cool) emulation | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for building you don't need it, afaik | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. you can build and then test on _real_ device instead of test in xephyr-emu | 16:31 |
| ludens | right | 16:31 |
| ludens | yeah i was hoping that's only needed for testing gui behavior | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 16:36 |
| ludens | this is awesome | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually any behaviour on a maemo system, since such system won't come up in an emu that's missing the hildon-desktop | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | in simple words: your maemo emu will not start when xephyr is missing, so you can't even test daemons or other UI-less programs | 16:38 |
| ludens | ah | 16:38 |
| ludens | okay | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you can test all you like, on a _real_ device | 16:38 |
| ludens | yeah | 16:38 |
| rikanee | speaking of the Maemo emu, has anyone figured out how to start Hildon on the x86 SB? | 16:39 |
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| ludens | wow creating .debs is... a nightmare | 17:08 |
| merlin1991 | how come? | 17:09 |
| ludens | because i knew nothing about how it works :D | 17:12 |
| ludens | just reading up | 17:12 |
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| merlin1991 | it's a complicated process :D | 17:14 |
| merlin1991 | especially since there are various ways todo it | 17:15 |
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| ludens | yeah | 17:17 |
| ludens | i found a git tree for debian now that seems to be better prepared for it | 17:17 |
| merlin1991 | out of curiosity, what are you trying to build? | 17:17 |
| ludens | fish-shell | 17:17 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if to pester nokia to change the tablets-dev.nokia.com DNS to a CNAME to point to r.m.o/tabletsdev/ | 17:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/re-big_problem_with_maemo_repositories/#aac20aae483011e2adba418735b87e6a7e6a | 17:24 |
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| ludens | i want to install aptitude in scratchbox... | 17:32 |
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| ludens | so i want to build this package in FREMANTLE_ARMEL but my debhelper and python are too old. what can i do? | 17:42 |
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| ludens | there doesnt seem to be newer versions available from repository.maemo.org | 17:42 |
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| ludens | is repository.maemo.org the working host to use for all repositories now? | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, basically yes | 18:22 |
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| ludens | ok | 18:26 |
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| ludens | so... i need debhelper >= 8.00 to build this package but the maemo version is 5.something | 18:31 |
| ludens | any advice? | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask the hardcode-devels | 18:31 |
| Pali | in extras-devel is debhelper 7 | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like Pali, freemangordon, merlin1991 | 18:32 |
| ludens | Pali: i installed that | 18:32 |
| Pali | look at wiki there is info how to use debhelper7 is scratchbox | 18:32 |
| Pali | is it really tricky due to scratchbox redirect | 18:32 |
| ludens | could i change the requirements? | 18:32 |
| ludens | okay | 18:32 |
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| Pali | I think that there was not big change between debhelper 7 and 8 so you can replace 8 with 7 in your package | 18:33 |
| Pali | and it could work | 18:33 |
| ludens | but this package will still require 8.0.0 | 18:33 |
| ludens | ah ok | 18:33 |
| Pali | ~debhelper7 | 18:33 |
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| ludens | mm | 18:33 |
| ludens | what about python 2.6 | 18:33 |
| ludens | dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper (>= 8.0.0) python (>= 2.6) | 18:33 |
| ludens | i installed python2.7 | 18:33 |
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| ludens | but it doesnt look for that ofc | 18:33 |
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| Pali | ~#maemo debhelper7 is https://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Debhelper_7 | 18:34 |
| ludens | could i replace python with python2.7? | 18:34 |
| infobot | Pali: okay | 18:34 |
| Pali | I do not know nothing about python... | 18:34 |
| Pali | rather ask someone else about python packaging | 18:35 |
| ludens | ok thx | 18:35 |
| ludens | hm it only recommends python 2.6 | 18:37 |
| ludens | doesnt depend on it | 18:37 |
| ludens | then why won't it build | 18:37 |
| ludens | no sorry build-depends includes it | 18:38 |
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| ludens | debhelper7 doesnt seem to cut it | 18:54 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | <<17:23 DocScrutinizer05 wonders if to pester nokia to change the tablets-dev.nokia.com DNS to a CNAME to point to r.m.o/tabletsdev/>> oh we have a rmo tablets-dev now. cool :) | 19:38 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | disgraceful. bloody dyndns have made it even harder to keep your free account. You now have to login to the account via a browser every month to stop it expiring. | 21:18 |
| * sixwheeledbeast now wonders if he can automate this with a wget script... | 21:24 | |
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| lokimotive | hey | 21:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: :-/ And I bet they will implement some nasty capcha once more than a few dozen users go the wget path | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, that's the way it goes. Nothing is for free | 22:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mmm, I am thinking javascript login or something. trying to bash something together now. | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you always pay, with your attention, your clicks, your stupidity to accept pro-plans, whatever | 22:03 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | It's the only DDNS service my router supports. | 22:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | all the skype and google+ and facebook and wazapp victims never will learn, but you always pay, sooner or later | 22:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It was a good service. shame they've pulled free and are making it harder for free long term users. | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder when I'll get first bitching mail from them | 22:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | they advertise on my webhop so why make it hard for me? | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I probably should set up my own "dyndns" service. I got enough fixed IP services | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't be too hard to set up some service for that on my hetzner server | 22:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | that would be nice if my router could have anything other than Dyn. | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I know those friggin routers | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zyxel? | 22:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I haven't gone down the open firmware route yet but may have to if it will help. | 22:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | wag200 | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of | 22:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | linksys WAG200 (cisco) | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rebranded? | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the linksys firmware been not all bad, but in the long run unbearable | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moved to openWRT | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err DD-WRT | 22:11 |
| zeq1 | http://wiki.openwrt.org/doku.php?id=oldwiki:openwrtdocs:hardware:linksys:wag200 | 22:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | openwag200 is an option but never needed so haven't bothered. | 22:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: how will dynDNS inform you about that new shit? Or will they at all? | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since when is this in effect? | 22:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I just had a e-mail today, looking on the dyn forums they've been rolling it out this month. | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once you hacked sth, share it please! | 22:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Also I can't find the option to e-mail on 5 days before expiration | 22:25 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I need to work out how to get wget to fill in this page. https://account.dyn.com/entrance/ | 22:26 |
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| zeq1 | sixwheeledbeast: you'll need to grab the captcha and try to OCR it, obviously it's designed to defeat that. So good luck... | 22:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | there's no captcha at present for existing users login | 22:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: zeq1: It my not be possible there is some javascript that seems to change the login field name (form_id) on each visit. However I am no expert. very basic html skills only here :( | 22:42 |
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| merlin1991 | sixwheeledbeast: the login field is something like login%i_username | 23:03 |
| merlin1991 | it changes each reload | 23:03 |
| merlin1991 | though without javascript | 23:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yeah a random number. looking at loading cookies somehow. | 23:04 |
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| merlin1991 | sixwheeledbeast: cookies and posts are easier with curl imho | 23:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok ta | 23:15 |
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