IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-05-12

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DocScrutinizer05[admin announcement] we need to take down for maintenance for 1..2h - since static.m.o is on same VM, you'll see rendering issues and massive slowdowns on wiki.m.o etc as well00:53
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ShadowJK_freemangordon; "memory_sync_page: no page for 006b1000" proc_memory_sync: InValid address parameters 00667c10 70800"01:36
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Gear_I installed pwnie express on my secondary phone, my primary phone is almost dead and I need to transfer the data to the one that currently has pwnie express11:56
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Gear_I need to transfer all data from one n900 to another one12:02
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DocScrutinizer06drive-by asker?12:33
DocScrutinizer06obviously missed to grok how IRC works12:34
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: not to mention that pwnie express shit13:00
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kerio"i'm a hacker but i don't know what scp is"13:00
DocScrutinizer05or even BM13:00
infobotrumour has it, hacker is someone that hacks. see hacking. or an interesting essay can be found at, but Someone who plays with stuff, and figures things out just to satisfy his own idle curiousity.13:01
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DocScrutinizer05~wiki hacker13:01
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{wiktionary|hacker}} 'Hacker' may refer to: * Hacker (term), a term used in computing for several types of person ** Hacker (computer security) someone who accesses a computer system by circumventing its security system ** Hacker (hobbyist), who makes innovative customizations or combinations of retail electronic and computer equipment * Hacker (programmer subculture), who combines ...13:02
* DocScrutinizer05 always feels an irresistable urge to hit the face of everybody using this term in meaning #2 of wikipedia13:03
DocScrutinizer05probably related to my age13:03
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DocScrutinizer05when I was young (and a hacker), a hack been for example making the PDP11 play a song13:04
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, ok, sub-bullet #1 I meant:  Hacker (computer security)13:07
hardfalcon1DocScrutinizer05: I know that feeling, but at some point it becomes (IMHO) more helpful accepting that new meaning than to waste power to try to oppose the way people use a certain term13:08
DocScrutinizer05often even confused with cracker or even script kiddie13:08
DocScrutinizer05hardfalcon1: alas true13:08
DocScrutinizer05you can't educate the worls13:09
hardfalcon1it is more important to explain to people the *actual* problems we have than to waste time with trying to get them to adopt a new vocabulary13:09
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DocScrutinizer05*old* vocabulary13:09
DocScrutinizer05even genuine original vocabulary13:09
hardfalcon1wel, to *them*, it is "new"13:09
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hardfalcon1think of discussing for example quotas for women in management positions with hardcore feminists13:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway, for all you kids and noobs out there: :-D13:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm all for quotas, particularly in prison and unemployment ;-P13:12
hardfalcon1instead of discussing the actual topic with you, a lot of them will try to force their own vocabulary  as a replacement for the common "mainstream" vocabulary down your throat13:12
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hardfalcon1well in the beginning, I was strictly opposed to quotas because I consider them as a form of psoitive discrimination, and I don't believe that you should fight discrimination with more discrimination13:13
hardfalcon1but in the meantime, I've come to a point where I don't give a shit anymore13:13
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hardfalcon1I think women should have equal chances, which implies that we'll end up wit 50% women in management positions at some point in time - so if the women really want quotas, they shall have quotas13:15
hardfalcon1anyhow, as far as the term "hacker" is concerned: I was once on a student's faire where I represented my hackerspace in luxembourg13:16
SpeedEvil_you're assuming that the same proportion of men as women want to spend lots of time at work.13:17
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hardfalcon1my standard answer to "What's a hacker?" was "Somebody who finds an unorthodox or creative solution for a problem. So if your grandma's water boiler is broken and she uses the coffee machine to get hot water, you can consider her a hacker."13:18
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hardfalcon1SpeedEvil_: In countries where women are not forced to spend most of their time raising children because there is a working and affordable public infrastructure that can take care of the children while the mother is a work, they actually *do* spend a similar proportion of time working13:21
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hardfalcon1but TBH I don't wanna discuss social politics here, if I wanna discuss social politics, I'll give me the pain to go to the "queer geeks panel" at the 30C313:24
hardfalcon1s/to go/of going/13:24
infobothardfalcon1 meant: but TBH I don't wanna discuss social politics here, if I wanna discuss social politics, I'll give me the pain of going to the "queer geeks panel" at the 30C313:24
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infobotDocScrutinizer05: :)14:02
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DocScrutinizer05lol @ *C3, I heard last one had funny issue involving lots of red cards14:10
DocScrutinizer05one guy even tried to collect as many of them as he could get ;-P14:11
DocScrutinizer05and a girl allegedly created XXX-rated wall tags out of them, which I consider an excellent hack indeed14:12
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ashleywhat's the status of recorder on Fremantle? I've found which states the recorder is the newest version of maemo-recorder application, but recorder-0.3.4's README file still states that "Maemo Recorder is a simple graphical utility for recording audio from microphone on Nokia internet tablets, mainly the 770." and I'd like to know whether it's compatible with Fremantle/N900 or not...19:40
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Sc0rpiusashley, I think what you're looking for is recorder-0.3.419:50
Sc0rpiusmaemo-recorder even if it has build for Fremantle it looks like it was mainly for Diablo  instead of Fremantle19:50
Sc0rpiusand both packages (from the same author) haven't been updated in years.19:51
Sc0rpiuslike most N900 apps :)19:51
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Sc0rpiusif it's in the repositories then it is for the N900.19:52
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ashleyyep, recorder (versions 0.3.1-0.3.4) is at (and I assume precompiled binaries are in a different folder, too); finding the link wasn't as easy as I had hoped, though19:56
ashley(and it's a shame that the source code for the Harmattan recorder app has been basically lost :/)19:57
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keriohey, the cubieboard has an arm cortex A8 and i2c20:14
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DocScrutinizer05ashley: you know a lot about mediawiki I heard?20:16
DocScrutinizer05is that right or incorrect?20:16
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ashleyyou would think so since I've been a MediaWiki developer since 2008 ;-)20:16
DocScrutinizer05so, would you be willing to explain how to properly delete SPAM (not undo or rollback)20:17
DocScrutinizer05I found so far20:18
DocScrutinizer05but it seems that's not installed on wiki.m.o20:18
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ashleydepends on what is your definition of properly and what kind of spam (i.e. new page creations or spamming over an old, pre-existing wiki page); RevisionDelete is a core MW feature since 1.16 (see but the wiki is running 1.15.5 ( so it's either not available or at least not enabled20:21
DocScrutinizer05I also found but that's a PITA for sure20:21
ashleyfor new spam pages, ordinary deletion works; for individual spam's a bit more complicated if we're doing it w/o RevisionDelete20:21
ashleythere is the possibility of deleting the entire page and selectively restoring all but the spam revision -- but it's ugly and usually not worth the trouble, which is why most patrollers and admins on most wikis either undo/rollback the spam (or RevisionDelete it)20:22
DocScrutinizer05the problem we want to tackle is spammers adding ther URLs to existing pages, so google will find and index then, even when they are not most recent version anymore20:22
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: the problem we want to tackle is spammers adding ther URLs to existing pages, so google will find and index them, even when they are not most recent version anymore20:23
ashleythere is but I can guarantee that the most recent version will _not_ work with a MW version as old as 1.15 and I'm not sure how stable the older versions are (I recall AbuseFilter went through quite heavy development before it became even somewhat stable)20:24
ashleyout of general curiosity and somewhat related to the spam issue, what's the plan for upgrading to the most recent version of MediaWiki (and hopefully fixing a few annoying bugs while we're at it), or is there no such plan yet?20:24
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DocScrutinizer05there's no maintainer to pursue such plans, so far20:25
DocScrutinizer05we're running in a permanent mix of holiday-mode, emergency-mode, and maintenance-mode20:26
DocScrutinizer05(we == techstaff)20:26
DocScrutinizer05IOW: short of manpower20:26
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ashleywell, for what it's worth, I'd gladly like to help you guys out with that, given that the MediaWiki 1.15.x branch will soon celebrate its fourth birthday ;-) (as per
DocScrutinizer05you're more than welcome to apply for a maintainer role for mediawiki service20:27
ashleyis there a formal process or somesuch or shall I just raise my hand and say, "I'm interested"? :-)20:28
DocScrutinizer05however, please be aware that maemo services seen lots of customizations during the years, and have to integrate into the whole system20:28
DocScrutinizer05the latter :-)20:28
DocScrutinizer05I'll walk you thru the "formal process" then20:29
ashley\o consider me interested in and upgrading it, then20:29
DocScrutinizer05fine! :-)20:29
DocScrutinizer05ashley: /query?20:31
ashleybased on a quick look at , there's the custom skin which needs upgrading (should be relatively simple to do, just need to find a few hours to actually do that, test it and iron out the bugs) and some wonky dark magic related to the upper/lowercase usernames20:31
DocScrutinizer05that sounds wonderful20:31
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keriothat sounds so fun20:35
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GeneralAntillesSo what's the takeaway from the council handover meeting?21:18
kerioGeneralAntilles: bauer's a twat21:32
keriobut, i mean, we already knew that21:32
Win7Macmake sure you quote all his few comments21:33
Win7Macthat'd speak for itself21:33
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DocScrutinizer05the most important quote though is the lots of silence21:39
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DocScrutinizer05I'm sure I asked at least three times when will be next HiFo BoD meeting, I can't recall I've seen any answer whatsoever21:41
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: I think the takeaway is "MCC handed over, HFC established and started productive work by evaluating state of HiFo bank account management plus a few other minor topics"21:44
DocScrutinizer05and "HFC uttered *severe* concerns regarding the way the bank account gets handled by HiFo BoD currently"21:45
DocScrutinizer05"HFC instructed BoD to immediately fix the issues found relating to bank account management - the *latest* till next Friday"21:47
DocScrutinizer05"particularly HFC instructed BoD Bauer to *immediately* remove persons from signature list that have parted HiFo, and to cooperate with BoD Woodward to get the latter on said signature list"21:50
keriois there a stronger synonym than "instruct"?21:53
Win7Macwho is the next HiFo-treasurer?22:00
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: my english is pretty poor as soon as it's not about stuff related to electronics22:03
DocScrutinizer05actually my active vocabulary is maybe 0.1% of my passive one22:04
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keriopretty much the same here22:05
DocScrutinizer05suggestion, advice, instruction, order - that's about it with my active vocabulary for that22:07
Win7Mac*gave order to...22:07
DocScrutinizer05maybe a few circumscriptions like "ultimately demand"22:08
Win7MacI'd also metion the general disaproval about current situation with Bod in general (JJ not responsive), but esp. secretary doing a lousy job.22:12
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DocScrutinizer05well, though I can't disagree, personally, it's for sure not PC and good style to do that kind of public bashing as member of a official entity that's meant to cooperate with HiFo22:19
Win7Macyea, you're probably right. So, GeneralAntilles, please put it in some nice words ;)22:22
DocScrutinizer05each aspect would need more in depth evaluation to estimate the actual situation and circumstances. However what's evident and obvious is BoD's blatant failure to schedule and hold meetings, and it seems rather clear why we see this failure22:23
Win7Mache does not serve the community anymore22:24
Win7Macmaemo, that is22:24
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GeneralAntillesWin7Mac, nice words I can /usually/ manage.22:30
GeneralAntillesWhat's the timeline for initiating board elections?22:31
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: ASAP22:44
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DocScrutinizer05the plan is to pick up on the already running nomination period and announced elections22:44
DocScrutinizer05of course this plan has to get approved/adopted by HFC22:45
DocScrutinizer05since in pre-HFC times nobody can make fixed plans regarding that22:45
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DocScrutinizer05the idea however been that HFC would adopt the planning/schedule/announcements done in the past by MMC22:47
DocScrutinizer05and approve them retroactively22:47
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Win7Macare the rules about BoD elections set and ACK'ed by HFC an BoD?22:48
DocScrutinizer05the rules are to be defined by HFC, not yet done22:48
Win7MacBoD has to accept?22:48
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DocScrutinizer05BoD has to accept that there *are* elections... or not22:50
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Win7Machow can that be rejected, it's in the bylaws there have to be22:51
Win7Macit's HFCs job22:51
DocScrutinizer05a BoD that refuses to accept the legitimately announced and held elections would not have any way to stick to their position22:51
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Win7Macwell, then lets hope he keeps on refusing and the issue is soon to be resolved ;)22:54
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GeneralAntillesHow will bank account handover be handled....22:57
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Win7Mac...but he could refuse the legitimately of the announcement (by MCC) and therefore the whole election...22:59
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DocScrutinizer05no, since that's not job of BoD, that's job of MFC23:01
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: handover?23:01
Win7Macbut, you know, HFC is not MCC23:03
DocScrutinizer05so what?23:03
Win7MacHFC has to put rules first, then announce?23:03
Win7Macthat's at least what I#d expect23:04
DocScrutinizer05there's a HFC, it's HFC's job to define election rules to their liking, and it's not BoD to accept or reject that decision of HFC23:04
DocScrutinizer05you're assumning23:04
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Win7Macbut there timetables for election-period23:04
DocScrutinizer05there's no such rule that says elections have to get announced only after HFC published rules23:05
DocScrutinizer05honestly, why discuss all possibilities how BoD could spoil that election?23:06
DocScrutinizer05is there any sane rationale in doing that now?23:06
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DocScrutinizer05I'm already bored of this type of discussion with Mr Bauer23:06
DocScrutinizer05I don't like to do it for my leisure with !MrBauer23:07
Win7Macno, but whats the point in ignoring bylaws and risk that elections have to be reheld and loose even more time?23:08
Win7Macno offense here, just don't want to see the next drama23:09
DocScrutinizer05please point me to any bylaws *I* ignored!23:10
Win7Macnot *YOU* ofc, HFC23:11
Win7Mache's an advocate, he searches for those holes...23:11
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DocScrutinizer05so please you do the same, instead of playing argumenting with me as sparrings partner23:12
GeneralAntillesAssuming a new board is elected.23:13
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: aah, no idea. Probably depends on what the bank requires for that23:14
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GeneralAntillesI love the abdication of responsibility for financial matters and the complete involvement in things involving potential elections.23:21
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GeneralAntillesMind blowing23:24
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