IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-04-28

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r00t|n900escape and tab button disappeared from osso-xterm... any pointers?01:02
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xeslook here:
sixwheeledbeastmmm, I think i'll be adding | to the x-term bar, thanks01:07
xesyw ;)01:08
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hardfalconhi everyone =)02:16
hardfalconcould somebody give me a hint on how to manually mount all the mtd and mmcblk devices on an n900?02:19
hardfalconsomehow my system update today went wrong, and now I'm stuck with only uboot and an old archlinux installation on the sd card booting02:20
xesyou could try with this rescue initrd :
hardfalconI've already found out how to mount the rootfs with ubifs, but I'd really like to know in which order I have to mount which file systems before I mount --bind /dev, /sys and /proc so I can chroot into my maemo installation and fix up the mess02:22
hardfalcon(mostly reinstalling/reflashing uboot and kernel power 52)02:23
hardfalconoh thanks a lot02:23
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kerioyou don't need a working maemo system to flash a kernel02:28
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hardfalconkerio: I don't want to reflash the kernel or even the whole rootfs with flasher/0xFFFF because I'm not entirely sure yet what exactly went wrong, and I don't wanna reset my rootfs (lots of config and other stuff in there which I don't wanna have to recustomize after a reflash)02:32
hardfalconand at the moment neither flasher nor 0xFFFF seem to be able to create a FIASCO image which I could flash back again once I've found the culprit02:33
hardfalconso I'd rather do this one by foot02:33
keriowtf, why don't you have backups?02:33
kerioanyway, the second partition of the emmc is ext3 and is normally mounted on /home02:34
bef0rdliving on the edge02:34
hardfalconwell, I do have backups, but I've added some stuff since the last backup (I don't use the phone very often), and besides, backups on the N900 are only good for contacts and your schedule02:35
keriobackupmenu makes tarballs of the whole system02:35
hardfalconI've tried that once02:35
hardfalconand it didn't02:36
hardfalconit did save a list of all my installed packages02:36
kerionot the "Backup" program02:36
hardfalconah sorry, I misread your message02:36
hardfalconyes, I think backupmenu will be the second thing to installed once this is cleaned up02:37
hardfalconthe first thing will be rescueOS02:37
kerioyou don't necessarily need to install rescueos02:37
kerioyou can just load it via usb when you need it02:37
hardfalconI know02:37
hardfalconbut I wanna have it installed so the next time I don't have to fiddle around searching for a rescueOS download and the correct cmdline02:38
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xeshardfalcon: before the last upgrade, were you using multiboot?02:41
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hardfalconI was using pali's uboot release from the end of last year, and kernel power 51something from the end of 2012 or the beginning of 201302:43
hardfalconand for some odd reason, the new uboot has been installed, but not flashed02:43
hardfalconso when the phone boots up, it loads the old uboot, but the boot menu has an entry where I can select to boot uboot "again" - only that *then*, it loads the new uboot from april 201302:44
hardfalconand with that new uboot, I'm able to boot archlinux off my sd card02:44
hardfalconwith the old release, that isn't possible for some odd reason02:45
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keriothe old release doesn't speak extfs, iirc02:52
hardfalconwell, at least it should be able to boot normal maemo installation on the internal flash02:52
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hardfalconbut it doesn't, with neiter of the uboot versions, with neither kernel power 52 nor the omap kernel02:53
hardfalconhmmm, rescueOS only has a script to mount rootfs02:54
hardfalconbut no clue what to do about things like /opt/maemo and so forth02:54
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DocScrutinizer05those are bindmounts02:56
DocScrutinizer05would a mounttab relieve your problems?02:56
hardfalconyes I know, but no idea what other mount options they use, and I'm not sure wheter I have all the needed mountpoints in my head02:56
hardfalconI guess that would help a lot, yes :)02:57
hardfalconthanks =)02:57
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DocScrutinizer05your uboot tale is bewildering03:00
DocScrutinizer05uboot lives as siamese twin with kernel in dev/mtd1 iirc, anyway in NAND's "kernel" partition. I don't see how 2 uBoot could coexist03:02
DocScrutinizer05maybe 2 env03:03
DocScrutinizer05env completely defines how uBoot menu looks like03:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: uboot doesn't have any saved env03:03
kerioand he probably just installed u-boot-bootimg03:03
keriodoing that lets you chainload uboot from uboot03:03
hardfalconDocScrutinizer05: I have some uImage containing uboot lying around on one of the "normal" file systems03:04
DocScrutinizer05LOL, right03:04
hardfalconbut that uimage contains the *new* uboot, and I'm sure I did not put it in there03:05
hardfalconif it contained the old uboot, I could well imagine I'd put it there some time03:05
xesput the candle back...
hardfalconbut certainly not the new uboot release from last week03:05
DocScrutinizer05well, one of uBoot's primary duties is to load nootimg's03:06
DocScrutinizer05bootimg's even03:06
keriou-boot-bootimg is a moot img03:07
DocScrutinizer05usually bootimges contain kernels, but as mentioned above maemo uboot lives in symbiosis with kernel03:07
keriothe bootimg doesn't03:08
DocScrutinizer05so you indeed could load uboot by uboot03:08
kerioand "in symbiosis" means "there's uboot, then zeroes, then maybe a kernel at a specified address"03:08
kerioit's like a virtual mtd partition03:08
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hardfalconthanks a lot again xes, kerio and DocScrutinizer05 :)06:58
hardfalconit's booting again, seems it was just a broken uboot config06:58
hardfalconodd enough though, as I had run the u-boot-update-bootmenu command even once manually to be sure before rebooting07:00
DocScrutinizer05hardfalcon: u-boot-update-bootmenu is a clumsy concept07:16
hardfalconit's not worse than grub07:18
hardfalconthe coolest thing would probably be yslinux for n90007:19
hardfalconbut that's most probably never gonna happen07:19
DocScrutinizer05hardfalcon: bootmenu is a consept that's vastly unrelated to what uboot does, yet uboot config tries to exploit the bootmenu config to base own config on that07:20
hardfalconyes I know07:21
DocScrutinizer05it's kinda like basing grub config on upstart config07:21
hardfalconwell I've never used upstart07:22
DocScrutinizer05well, then s/upstart/sysv-init/07:23
hardfalconI've been happy with syslinux and archlinux since quite a few years now, so no need to try out that ubuntu stuff :)07:23
hardfalconbut yeah, I see what you mean07:23
DocScrutinizer05we urgently need midgard specialists for maemo techstaff07:28
DocScrutinizer05CMS which is based on07:30
DocScrutinizer05see footer on http://maemo.org07:31
hardfalconthat thing looks scary07:31
DocScrutinizer05Powered by Midgard CMS07:31
DocScrutinizer05indeed, it is07:31
hardfalconbtw, is there some specific reason why they didn't go to sourceforge to get servers for
DocScrutinizer05maybe you wanna have a look at
DocScrutinizer05gives a bit of insight into what actually comprises07:35
hardfalconI hadn't been in the forums for a few months and I was quite amazed when I saw the fundraising stuff when I visited the site for the first time after my absence07:36
DocScrutinizer05well, running our own hardware at a colocation for free felt better than getting some limited-control vservers somewhere07:37
hardfalconthat's certainly true, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have some sort of fallback07:38
DocScrutinizer05even osuosl strongly recommends or rather demands that any hosted project uses their central md server rather than running their own db07:38
DocScrutinizer05sourceforce wouldn't probably be able to host maemo at all07:39
DocScrutinizer05since it's neither a simple lamp webserver, nor a simple git repository07:39
DocScrutinizer05rather it's all that at once, plus 90% weird stuff on top07:40
hardfalconI guess will have to migrate onto a less weird platform sometime07:40
DocScrutinizer05haha, good luck07:41
hardfalconfrom my perspective, the most important thing are mirrors for the packages07:41
DocScrutinizer05that stuff grew organically during almost 10 years, by the work of lots of volunteers07:42
DocScrutinizer05mirrors? hah!07:42
DocScrutinizer05we have mirrors like others have dirt under their fingernails07:42
infoboti heard mirror is, or - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new07:42
hardfalconmore or less all of the rest could be substituted if the infrastructure needed would become too costly07:42
infobotfrom memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources:
hardfalconyeah, I've seen skeiron07:43
DocScrutinizer05well, substituate autobuilder. We're open to honest suggestions07:43
DocScrutinizer05there actually been efforts to migrate from autobuilder to cobs07:45
DocScrutinizer05but they stalled when Nokia stopped support (i.e. stopped paying the devels)07:45
hardfalconwell, I don't have any experience managing a whole linux distro, but I could well imagine that if there isn't any more money for an autobuilder server, the package maintainers would have to build the packages on their own machines and upload both the source tarballs and the binary packages onto some central fileserver (which could server as source for mirror servers)07:45
DocScrutinizer05we won't do that, since then everybody is free to inject whatever malware he likes into official repos07:46
DocScrutinizer05a dream for virus coders, their malware gets delivered genuinely instead of finding its way through vulnerabilities07:47
hardfalconhmmm, and you think that somebody would notice in time if there was a breach on the autobuilder server?07:47
DocScrutinizer05that's what maemo-testing repo is all about07:48
hardfalconat archlinux, they have trusted package maintainers, who build their own binary packages and sign them07:49
DocScrutinizer05so do we07:49
hardfalconand the keyring used by the package manager is a package that is signed by the core devs07:49
DocScrutinizer05sorry, that's not exactly new info to me07:50
hardfalconI don't know which of the 2 models should be considered more secure07:51
rikaneehardfalcon: having all packages distributed on RMO built and signed by the autobuilder machine is simply playing it safe07:51
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rikaneead-hoc packaging with only trusted maintainers getting on the server is an option, but not having an autobuilder means we can't do fancy things like rebuild everything for GCC 4.7/Thumb-2 (when the time comes) easily07:52
hardfalconwith an autobuild host, you have a single point of failure IMHO07:52
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DocScrutinizer05and how does that differ form rmo as a single point of failure?07:54
DocScrutinizer05and what does it suggest?07:54
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DocScrutinizer05with a power plant you also have a single point of failure for electric power. Does that mean we should get rid of power plants? sure we should, if somebody could invent the wireless eternally powered modible power outlet07:55
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: with a power plant you also have a single point of failure for electric power. Does that mean we should get rid of power plants? sure we should, if somebody could invent the wireless eternally powered mobile power outlet07:56
hardfalconas I said, I'm certainly not an expert on that field, but to me, a buildhost where people can upload things like makescripts, configure scripts etc, that will be executed, and which signs your packages automagically, sounds like a conceptional weakness07:57
DocScrutinizer05it isn't07:57
DocScrutinizer05devel upload their sourcecode to extras-devel, and autobuilder generates a binary that matches the sourcecode. Eventually they promote their package to extras-testing where both source and binary are supposed to get tested thoroughly07:58
DocScrutinizer05only then the package can promote to extras07:59
DocScrutinizer05so in extras repo you got binaries that are definitely in sync with their sourcecode, and seen thorough testing for rogue functions, hidden malware, mistakes in coding that were without malicious intent but still would affect system stability, a.s.o08:00
DocScrutinizer05that's maemo security concept and you can't replace that by trusted devels building their binaries locally and then sharing them by whatever means08:02
hardfalconwell if packages must be validated by the dev before they are moved into extras-devel, then looks good to me08:03
DocScrutinizer05only registered devels can upload to extras-devel08:03
DocScrutinizer05registration for garage developer with upload rights is a manual process that ensures that only known and honoured community members get access08:04
hardfalconyes, that's similar to archlinux, there you also have to earn your way to become package maintainer08:06
DocScrutinizer05the security check for that registartion isn't really a tough one, but it suffices since we got our security built around other measures than trust08:06
hardfalconas a "normal" user, you can only put PKGBUILD scripts into the AUR08:06
rikaneesome just want to verify the binaries published vs. one built by yourself.08:06
rikaneethe autobuilder's software and hardware configuration is known, which should make it possible to verify the output if you're paranoid enough.08:07
rikaneeand rarely, magic voodoo with differing toolchains may prevent binaries in a system from working together properly.08:08
DocScrutinizer05that's yet another good point why central building is needed08:09
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DocScrutinizer05see cssu where we're not using autobuilder which only works since we are few maintainers&devels, and yet already there we seen months of syystem with broken modest, since the devel accidentally built modest package with thumb enabled on his local machine08:12
DocScrutinizer05which made it segfault like mad08:12
hardfalconyes, I clearly see the practical advantages08:13
DocScrutinizer05one line in one config file of that devel's local scratchbox SDK been incorrect, and it took months to spot that08:13
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infobotDocScrutinizer05: :)09:22
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keriohardfalcon: i trust the autobuilder a lot more than the security of /all/ the computers of the people who are "allowed to build"10:11
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kerioand in fact, the sooner we get the cssu repos under the autobuilder, the better10:42
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kerioi trust merlin1991's conscience wholeheartedly, but i don't necessarily trust his computer's security :310:45
DocScrutinizer05just for now we have severe problems with midgard10:45
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DocScrutinizer05and it seems we have even less midgard experts to fix those issues than we have autobuilder savvy individuals10:48
kerioget HiFo to pay nemein to fix it?10:50
DocScrutinizer05I already pondered it10:51
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DocScrutinizer05where nemein==bergie, basically10:52
DocScrutinizer05I'm just waiting to discuss it with a few others, and of course with bergie ;-)10:53
kerioeven better, pay nemein to migrate to a good CMS10:54
DocScrutinizer05with you as sponsor?10:54
kerioi'm prepared to donate at least tens of euros10:54
DocScrutinizer05also i'd rather give that order to a company that is expert of the migration target, not of migration source10:55
DocScrutinizer05kerio: for a ballpark figure: *maintenance* of by nemein is ~2200EUR/month10:57
DocScrutinizer05maintenance does _not_ include a major migartion10:58
DocScrutinizer05lol? that's actually a fair offer10:58
DocScrutinizer05see fundraiser thread, post #110:59
DocScrutinizer05basic system maintenance: 2200€ - my memory been correct11:00
DocScrutinizer05>>[update] We finally got a quote for our current infra (VM on xen-grid, basic system maintenance): 1300EUR+2200EUR/month (+VAT). Of course we're trying to do further consolidation and search for alternatives like volunteers for sysops. Just a sidenote to let you know where we are right now and that we didn't exaggerate to the higher values with that initial ballpark figure of needed amount per month.<<11:01
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DocScrutinizer05number of users in midgard: 1011:03
DocScrutinizer05half of them desperate lurkers11:03
DocScrutinizer05other half: basically nemein11:03
DocScrutinizer05and that's midgard's *official* IRC channel11:04
DocScrutinizer05compare users on irc with
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DocScrutinizer05bergie, mashiara, aslan, piotr, niels (ex?): all nemein employees (or boss ;-D)11:11
DocScrutinizer05ab, newa: unclear11:12
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DocScrutinizer05me, jcki, woody: maemo11:13
keriosounds better than "Midgard is an open source CMS that has been developed in 1999"11:14
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DocScrutinizer05>> Nemein has built the developers website and maintain and develop it further on.<< hmmmmm11:19
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DocScrutinizer05I'm pondering to call bergie out on that11:20
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DocScrutinizer05maybe just place that link on maemo's footer, instead of that URL that's now under "powered by midgard"?11:22
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sixwheeledbeastgr, bloody crackly phone line. Having intermittent inet connection is more annoying than non at all. :(11:44
DocScrutinizer05and moinmoin11:47
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abDocScrutinizer05: I recommend you to talk to Bergie definitely.12:42
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DocScrutinizer05ab: yes, probably12:52
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DocScrutinizer05ab: actually, would you know about repligard db, and about permissions resp available functions in midgard toolbar for particular objects?12:59
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sixwheeledbeastthat seems to have sorted it.13:14
sixwheeledbeast<<10:45 DocScrutinizer05: just for now we have severe problems with midgard>> I guess this is why m.o login is not working?13:15
DocScrutinizer05it's not "not working", it got disabled13:16
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sixwheeledbeastlinked with what happens on tue night/wed morning GMT13:16
DocScrutinizer05since other stuff is not working13:16
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sixwheeledbeastso if a solution to that page is found, m.o login can be reinstated13:17
DocScrutinizer05basically yes13:18
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JaffaAf'noon, all14:40
JaffaJust reflashed my N9 (just rootfs, not eMMC) but writing to /home gives 'no space left on device'. df shows it's only half full. Any ideas?14:40
DocScrutinizer05hi Jaffa14:42
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Jaffahi DocScrutinizer0514:43
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: do you by any chance recall the issue reported in ?14:43
DocScrutinizer05it's kinda strange how the thread is stalling as a cliffhanger14:44
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* Jaffa remembers.14:47
DocScrutinizer05do you also remeber what been the actual final conclusions from all that?14:49
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DocScrutinizer05what got fixed, or what been the verdict on it?14:49
JaffaI don't think there were any14:49
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DocScrutinizer05oh, so they shrugged it away?14:50
DocScrutinizer05sounds kinda odd14:51
JaffaOnly ever reported by one guy who didn't raise a bug report and didn't provide any useful info.14:51
JaffaI doubt bergie et al even saw the thread14:51
DocScrutinizer05but actually maybe they did, since we see same bug today still14:52
JaffaYou do?14:52
DocScrutinizer05mashiara/Eero seen it14:52
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: yes we do. See pali's reports of a few days ago15:08
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PaliJaffa, DocScrutinizer05: that screen on TMO tread show same security bug which I discovered days ago15:11
Paliso that bug is there for a long time...15:11
Palithread was created 6th Aug 2010 , 04:0615:11
DocScrutinizer05Pali: yes, I know15:15
PaliDocScrutinizer05, so in last *3* years somebody was able to totally damage package database15:16
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DocScrutinizer05that's not confirmed15:16
merlin1991Jaffa: what does mount tell you?15:17
merlin1991Jaffa: I've had it after a rootfs reflash /home wasn't mouted anymore15:17
DocScrutinizer05and we don't discuss detailed problem here15:17
merlin1991mkfs ... on the devicenode, a reboot and everything was fine again15:17
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ron0062000what new?15:54
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fasta_Are there dual sim adapters for n900 which are inside it?17:42
fasta_Some threads say they are all scams, some say there is software to switch, but then you still need some device (which nobody mentions) to do the actual switching.17:42
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sixwheeledbeastfasta_: have you read
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sixwheeledbeastlast sim switcher I had corrupted all the data on both sims, avoided since then.17:59
hardfalconmagicsim 28th has been reported to work18:06
hardfalconbut there have also been report that magicsim 26th doesn't work18:06
hardfalcongotta admit though that I've never had a sim switcher myself so I don't have any personal experiences with them18:07
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jacekowskifasta_: those devices in most cases require you to turn your phone off and on18:29
sixwheeledbeastI think it depends on if 007 mode compatible?18:30
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fasta_sixwheeledbeast: yes, that's what got me interested in the dual sim possibility.18:43
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: but he should have listed a bunch of known to work devices in the OP.18:43
fasta_Does a sim switcher imply that you cannot use both at the same time?18:43
sixwheeledbeastI agreed was going to bump and ask if he could do a wiki page for his app.18:44
fasta_Also, how can I get my n900 to work like in the commercials for Maemo?18:44
fasta_In the commercials everything is smooth and fast.18:44
fasta_I think there are laws against practices like this now.18:45
sixwheeledbeast"sequences shortened"18:45
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: more like sped up.18:45
sixwheeledbeastyou on thumb?18:45
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: I'd say it's at least 5 times slower in the real world.18:45
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: thumb?18:45
sixwheeledbeastSwap on SD?18:46
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: I think I am Stable.18:46
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: I can see swap being used, yes.18:46
sardinifasta_, you're stable, that mean you are not a serial killer ?18:47
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fasta_sardini: on Stable.18:47
sixwheeledbeasteh.. do you have swap on uSD card or device (default)18:47
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: likely default.18:48
sixwheeledbeastyou would know if you had18:48
hardfalconsixwheeledbeast: e probably doesn't, otherwise he'd know18:48
sixwheeledbeasti know.18:48
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: I can ssh into my phone, so I can easily run commands.18:48
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sixwheeledbeastalso widgets are a big killer in maemo18:48
sixwheeledbeastif you have a fresh device with no dodgy software all is quick and crisp like the ads18:49
ShadowJKExcept opening youtube18:51
sixwheeledbeastwell that was youtube back in the day on flash 918:53
ShadowJKtrue :)18:53
sixwheeledbeastall workarounds for flash on microb now18:54
sixwheeledbeastroll on html5 browser18:54
fasta_What does skyhost do?18:55
fasta_I also don't get why I have 3 camera-ui programs running.18:56
fasta_Or 4 thumbnailerd.18:56
ShadowJKsykyhost = skype p2p thing18:56
fasta_It seems lots of duplicates are running.18:56
sixwheeledbeastand you wonder why it's being slow...18:57
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: these are things that should never happen in the first place.18:57
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: don't blame someone elses' fault on me.18:57
sixwheeledbeastI am not blaming anyone.18:58
fasta_sixwheeledbeast: instead suggest ways to fix the problem.18:58
ShadowJKThere's 2 for most things, a launcher/booster and app itself. Basically gtk and other libraries get initialized once, so that the state of the memory can be shared with other apps18:58
fasta_I have 8 browserd.18:58
fasta_4 hildon-desktop.18:58
fasta_Likely one for each desktop.18:58
sixwheeledbeastthere shouldn't be18:59
ecc3g2 hildon-desktop, 3 browserd, and 2 browser on mine18:59
ShadowJK3 browserd, 2 browser18:59
ShadowJKone parent browserd, web surf browserd, conversations browserd19:00
fasta_ShadowJK: and how much swap are you using? 0?19:00
ShadowJKbrowser launch/booster, main browser19:00
fasta_I am using 285MB swap now.19:00
fasta_(which is likely the main cause of slowness)19:00
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ShadowJK150M right now, reading news and have two rows of windows open :)19:00
fasta_I am not even using all the main memory :/19:01
fasta_There is over 70MB free.19:01
ecc3g2 modest, 375MB into swap (ouch)19:01
ecc3gwrong number, 149MB actually19:01
* ShadowJK has 2 gig swapfile on uSD19:01
ShadowJKit makes swap fragmentation onset take longer19:02
sixwheeledbeastit's not the amount of swap more the amount of times swap is written19:02
fasta_ShadowJK: are there any instructions to configure that?19:02
sixwheeledbeastswap defrag19:02
ecc3gfor some reason it won't let me use a swapfile on microsd (fatfs)...19:02
ShadowJKswap on fat is broken with stock kernel19:02
ShadowJKI should've said swap partition :)19:02
ecc3gwasn't fixed on pk?19:03
ShadowJKmight be, I havent tested19:04
ecc3ghave to repartition my microsd card, would be nice to use swap on that instead.19:04
fasta_Are swap _files_ also supported?19:05
fasta_(The Linux kernel supports those since forever)19:05
ecc3glast time i tried, it, forgot if it was on pk or stock, but it livelocked when I tried swapon19:06
ShadowJKthe stock version happened to have a big with swap on vfat19:06
ShadowJKalso "filefrag" on vfat doesn't work19:06
ShadowJK(same codepath)19:06
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: had the same on KP5019:07
ecc3gi guess it's worth it to try it on powerkernel52 now... but I have a feeling it was not fixed.19:08
sixwheeledbeastI don't see the issue with swap partition on uSD, or my preferred two swaps :)19:09
ecc3gand probably swap on swapfile on ext3 might work too...19:09
ecc3gjust too lazy to repartition the microsd :o19:10
sixwheeledbeasttakes minutes on a desktop with gparted19:10
ecc3gstill too lazy (plus I'd have to figure out how to make it auto swapoff when the back cover is removed...)19:11
sixwheeledbeastflopswap :)19:11
ecc3gplus I really should use the microsd... class 10 microsd is probably faster at swapping than the emmc?19:15
ShadowJKThe swap algorithm in maemo kernel (different from mainline kernels) is optimized for SD, but works best when nothing else accesses the device19:17
ShadowJKWhich is why I use uSD swap, because very little uses the uSD19:17
sixwheeledbeastAlso flash wear issue, but that's only a worry if you plan to be using N900 in decades to come.19:18
ShadowJKThe modem dies faster :)19:18
ShadowJKand microusb..19:18
sixwheeledbeastso it seems19:19
* infobot beats up erstazi19:19
sixwheeledbeastanyone successfully re-flowed an N900 mobo yet?19:22
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: not working, SSL certificate expired 25.04.2013 01:5919:56
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fasta_Is there some command to move all swap to RAM again?21:02
fasta_Why don't they just release an n900 with quadcore CPU and 4GB RAM?21:05
fasta_Well, and a camera from the Lumia.21:05
jacekowskibecause not many people will buy it21:07
fasta_jacekowski: there are a lot of people who hate all the "we will sell all your data" on other platforms.21:08
fasta_But perhaps it depends on who you talk to.21:08
jacekowskinokia did that too on n90021:08
jacekowskiif you remember mynokia or some crap like that21:09
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fasta_jacekowski: I am talking about things like selling contact lists.21:09
jacekowskinobody is doing that21:09
jacekowskiother than facebook21:09
fasta_jacekowski: pretty much all Android apps want access to it and Internet access.21:10
fasta_jacekowski: why would they *not*?21:10
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fasta_jacekowski: are you involved with some phone company now?21:11
fasta_jacekowski: what do people want according to you?21:11
jacekowskithat's what people want21:12
jacekowskiand that's where market is21:12
fasta_Does the iphone have some kind of security model?21:13
sixwheeledbeastI don't know. there's a few people I know, that a jealous of the N90021:13
jacekowskiprobably yes21:13
fasta_I don't want a flashlight app to have access to a contact list for example.21:13
jacekowskin900 had no security model at all21:13
fasta_jacekowski: sure, but legally I don't think applications can spy.21:14
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fasta_If OTOH, you say that you spy, it's all fine.21:14
jacekowskiapplications can do everything21:15
jacekowskido you ever read EULAs?21:15
fasta_jacekowski: ok, perhaps that was a bad remark.21:16
fasta_jacekowski: I actually do read EULAs most of the time, yes.21:16
fasta_jacekowski: but only out of enjoyment, since they are null and void.21:16
fasta_jacekowski: I am sure that there are other countries where those letters mean anything.21:17
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fasta_I just read something about iPhone security. It seems rather simplistic.21:24
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fasta_Perhaps better than on n900, since that comes with none?21:24
fasta_It certainly doesn't seem innovative, other than that it is MAC running on a phone.21:25
jacekowskiit was the first smarphone for masses21:25
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fasta_I wasn't talking about that; they deserve some credit there.21:28
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sixwheeledbeastthedead1440: nice declaration ;)22:38
thedead1440sixwheeledbeast: spying on me? :p22:39
thedead1440today is the first time in ~3 days that i've touched my laptop :p22:39
thedead1440so did it up fast and quick instead of writing an essay :D22:39
sixwheeledbeastI knew you where away, so when you pinged I checked the wiki :)22:40
thedead1440and you saved me the trouble by stating a lot of what i experienced too :)22:40
sixwheeledbeastI know that my point, cheat :P. TBH I had to make mine not sound like MT's22:42
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thedead1440Hehe Doc wrote a short story22:44
sixwheeledbeastin there parts too IIRC22:44
thedead1440he should have added the son goes to supermarket to buy 3l of milk and no 3l packaging available22:44
infobotsixwheeledbeast meant: in three parts too IIRC22:44
thedead1440that would have completed his examples :D22:45
thedead1440yeah he keeps editing it22:45
thedead1440he would make a good real life politician :D22:45
sixwheeledbeastHe goes to BBQ's then comes back to add another chapter22:45
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: where are you? :p22:46
thedead1440burning some steak?22:46
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sixwheeledbeastdoubt it, it'll take years to defrost from -22 degrees22:47
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DocScrutinizer05fools :-P22:52
thedead1440and here he is :D22:53
sixwheeledbeastwe awoke him from his midgard crisis22:54
sixwheeledbeastAll in order now >>>
thedead1440thanks for keeping it in order ;)22:56
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sixwheeledbeastself managing, my favourite type.22:58
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* thedead1440 goes to sleep; see ya :)23:05
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sixwheeledbeastthat's better! sounds are fixed in pidgin.23:07
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