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| merlin1991 | hm wondering what my upload is on hetzner so I can limit the http server to decent rates, any ideas how to test the upload (i only have this one server) | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oooh FSCK! syslog [kernel] journal commit IO-error | 00:14 |
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| xes | IO error... bad news... | 00:19 |
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| merlin1991 | hm time to break my system | 00:39 |
| merlin1991 | apt-get dist-upgrade on debian testing | 00:39 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | what, 100 degrees? That can't be good long term. | 00:41 |
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| kerio | right now it's 47 | 00:41 |
| teotwaki | my core duo laptop (old, 6 years) goes over a 100 every evening. | 00:41 |
| kerio | with max fans | 00:41 |
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| teotwaki | granted, I use it in bed, resting on the covers, so it must be full of dust and nicotine, and covers don't usually provide good airflow. | 00:42 |
| kerio | +1 -nicotine | 00:42 |
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| teotwaki | also... | 00:43 |
| teotwaki | I'm kind of hoping it dies | 00:43 |
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| teotwaki | Just so I have an excuse to buy a new fancy one :) | 00:43 |
| teotwaki | xes: fix your interwebs. | 00:43 |
| xes | :) | 00:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I wouldn't be happy with >40 odd degrees long term. | 00:45 |
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| xes | teotwaki: i was testing an xchat build inside my n900... not so bad, not so good | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, remount ro might help with this journal write IO error | 00:52 |
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| raandoom | hello | 00:52 |
| raandoom | does someone has jebba's kernel? from here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel | 00:53 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer: how is going the "resurrection" of your pc? | 00:54 |
| raandoom | i cant download it from his site, because site is down | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | installing on new minitower I5 worked fine, now copying old $HOME ober from laptop HDD | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | mail will get harder, since kmail2 is unusable, need to install kdepim3 | 00:58 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: just use mutt like real men do | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 00:59 |
| kerio | also, give us some benchmarks! | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | telnet and hexeditor | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | benchmark of what? | 01:00 |
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| xes | nice! So the old one was completely dead... What have you bought? bench? hdparm! | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | xes: don' have my environment, user, bookmarks here yet. So probably best is you look chanlog for what I bought | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kkcomputer.de BS-07HD+SSD | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | old one was completely fine, except the fan not spinning | 01:04 |
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| eccerr0r | darn those seized fans... | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | for a T500 that's a severe problem | 01:05 |
| * eccerr0r had a psu fan seize, and the psu fried... luckily was repairable... | 01:05 | |
| xes | ohne os... good choice! | 01:06 |
| eccerr0r | I'm playing dice, I oiled the fan's bearings and replaced the cooked inductor and capacitors... someday I'll put in a new fan... | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not watching this roulette now anymore, ETA for copy again at 1:16, I'm afk for a beer | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hope this time - since disk is mounted ro - it won't cause knotify spam my screen with 300MB worth of notfiers saying "syslog [kernel] writing journal IO error" | 01:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: nope | 01:10 |
| kerio | mounting ext4 ro will still write | 01:11 |
| xes | psu... there is an easy way to forget that every pc requires a psu. Buy a Fsp psu (MTBF 100K hours!!) | 01:11 |
| kerio | you have to mount it with either noload or nojournal, can't remember which | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: WUT? | 01:11 |
| kerio | read-only is for the user side only | 01:11 |
| kerio | it'll still replay the journal to fix inconsistencies | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | DAFAQ! | 01:11 |
| kerio | don't complain to me, read the fine manual instead! :P | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it didn't replay journal on mounting, I just don't want it to update atimes of 500k files | 01:12 |
| kerio | y u no noatime | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | since ro should imply noatime | 01:13 |
| kerio | i wonder if there's a sysctl to disable atime everywhere | 01:13 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: oh, it most definetely does | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, ~50% done | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 01:38 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: aw, gee | 01:38 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer: i wish that the disk is not a seagate. In the latest months their firmware have more bugs than bytes | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think it is seagate,not sure though | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | SST9500325AS | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like seagate | 01:42 |
| kerio | yep | 01:42 |
| xes | :( | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Model: "TOSHIBA DT01ACA1" | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the sst is the T500 disk I'm just copying from | 01:44 |
| xes | ah....is this the source of io errors?? | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically yes | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it had a large journal with all the atimes | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | now it's mounted ro | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and there's that cheap USB<->SATA adaper in between | 01:47 |
| xes | i have fixed most of segate disks with a firmware update... without that updates, read errors, heads "clicks" and then....not detected | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | there is a way to block writes to any device on linux | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, EAT counting up instead down | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ETA* | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1:40 \o/ | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1:40.30 | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1:41 | 01:51 |
| xes | another warning... usb-sata adapter fix trasfer errors with some kind of crc correction ... that often fails (generating different files! ) | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 1:42 | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh fsck | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 1:43 | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1:44 MEH! | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Time: 1:08.51 ETA 1:50.26 (8.36 MB/s) | 01:58 |
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| Skry | commenting to xes and seagates, looks like nothing has changed in few years then. I used to use seagate drives exclusively, until one day my raid-5 blew up, first one drive, and after replacement the two other died at the same time. approx 6 months lifetime. few months forward, and I lose 2 es more on a different machine. | 02:00 |
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| teotwaki | Waiting for mysql to reindex 30GB of data is painfully slow. Especially at 1AM. When you start work again at 8. | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hope you get paid for overtime | 02:02 |
| teotwaki | I did 30 hours of overtime this weekend alone. | 02:02 |
| xes | the worst thing is that most of the firmware updates are hidden an not available to end users: btw, here you can make a try: https://apps1.seagate.com/downloads/request.html | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Time: 1:15.34 ETA 2:00.29 (7.65 MB/s) \o/ | 02:04 |
| teotwaki | have you ever noticed | 02:05 |
| teotwaki | after looking at the \o/ smiley | 02:05 |
| teotwaki | that lol looks like a guy holding his hands up, like he's being pointed at with a gun? | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 02:06 |
| teotwaki | and depending on your font | 02:06 |
| teotwaki | he looks slightly egyptian. | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | weird font | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 02:06 |
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| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer: how's your C? | 02:07 |
| teotwaki | or C++/PHP for that matter? | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | eta 2:05, this thing asymptotically approaching infinite runtime | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | poor | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | C a lil better | 02:08 |
| teotwaki | do you know the --> operator? | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 02:08 |
| teotwaki | int i = 10; while (i --> 0) printf("%d\n", i); | 02:08 |
| teotwaki | prints 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hate ambiguous poerators | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | while (i-- >0) vs (i -->o) | 02:10 |
| teotwaki | I still find it fantastic. | 02:10 |
| xes | i-- is >0 | 02:10 |
| teotwaki | Some guy posted it on stackoverflow | 02:11 |
| teotwaki | actually made it to reddit and everything | 02:11 |
| teotwaki | I know how it works | 02:11 |
| teotwaki | I just find it beautiful. | 02:11 |
| teotwaki | I've spent a lot of time looking at those operators | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I also think it's pretty useless, since it does _not_ print 10 | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | while (i > 0) printf("%d\n", i--); | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | waaay clearer to me | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and does 10..1 instead 9..0 | 02:15 |
| teotwaki | :) | 02:16 |
| xes | the real point of interest is evaluate how many "forma mentis" are usual for someone and unusual for some other...the paths of our brain | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | there's worse | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | c-coder sickness, always they try to find funny obfuscated code | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | int i = 10; | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | while (i --\ | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | \ // while i | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | \ // goes down | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | \ // towards | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | \ // 0 | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | \> 0) | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | printf("%d\n", i); | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I sometimes am absolutely sure the coder of a particular code line must have worked 30 min to omit that one char and had an orgasm when he finally found the "solution" | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | (sorry for the flood) | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | teotwaki: you seen "when CCDIs get bored"? | 02:20 |
| teotwaki | nope | 02:20 |
| teotwaki | hang on, lemme find my worst obfuscation | 02:20 |
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| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.ca/2313253 | 02:22 |
| teotwaki | The idea was to get a job applicant to understand what the code did without the use of a compiler. | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | turns out not many people liked the challenge, some of them even left during the interview. | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, they nuked traceroute -m80 216.81.59.173 | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd leave too | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's kinda like asking for the result after 50 cycles of a arbitrary complex game_of_life setup | 02:34 |
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| jacekowski | Skry: that's only your fault, everyone knows to never use same drives in raid | 02:35 |
| jacekowski | Skry: every manufacturer has bugs in firmware or problems with some batches | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I however might keep this little gem, for testing prettyprinters | 02:35 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: my thoughts exactly. | 02:36 |
| zl2tod | http://rwerber.tumblr.com/post/42707829171/star-wars-traceroute | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | zl2tod: thanks :-D | 02:36 |
| jacekowski | i've recently hit strange bug on samsung HD204UI drives | 02:36 |
| jacekowski | i've had raid with 2 of those | 02:36 |
| jacekowski | and both got kicked out of raid within 30s of each other | 02:36 |
| jacekowski | after 60 days of uptime | 02:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fsck! /home/jr/.local/share/akon~ata/akonadi/parttable.ibd | 02:40 |
| teotwaki | zl2tod: shame it's down. | 02:41 |
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| Skry | jacekowski: yeah, true. raid5 was a bad idea too, but then again, it was used for backups of not that critical data and the budget was minimal. I still think that 6 out of 6, of mixed models, going down even with upgraded firmware, is pretty bad. | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL... Time: 2:09.29 ETA 1:57.53 (6.06 MB/s) | 02:58 |
| zl2tod | teotwaki, redirects to http://beaglenetworks.net/post/42707829171/star-wars-traceroute | 02:59 |
| teotwaki | zl2tod: no, I meant the traceroute itself | 02:59 |
| teotwaki | <DocScrutinizer> damn, they nuked traceroute -m80 216.81.59.173 | 02:59 |
| teotwaki | Ok | 02:59 |
| teotwaki | index rebuilt | 02:59 |
| teotwaki | now again, tell me why the fuck I, as lead software engineer, am rebuilding database indices instead of having some sysop do that in the middle of the night like they're supposed to? | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | still copying /home/jr/.local/share/akonadi/file_db_data/* crap | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nuke akonadi | 03:01 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at akonadi ... Bâ¢â¢M! | 03:01 | |
| xes | teotwaki: because you have the right "touch"? :) | 03:01 |
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| teotwaki | well, they're going to feel my wrathy touch tomorrow morning alright. | 03:02 |
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| xes | DocScrutinizer: http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/fwsh40en.txt | 03:05 |
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| technojabber | Hi | 03:08 |
| Macer | well | 03:09 |
| Macer | finally figured out how to set up this damn dun on a tf101 | 03:09 |
| Macer | stupid android and its lack of dun support | 03:09 |
| Macer | had to install some app called bluevpn | 03:09 |
| Macer | i wonder how fast it can download heh | 03:09 |
| technojabber | Can not update my n900 | 03:10 |
| technojabber | I'm trying to fix at the moment | 03:11 |
| Macer | wow it is slow as it can be | 03:12 |
| Macer | i'm topping out at 34K/s lol | 03:12 |
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| technojabber | I managed to update it now | 03:15 |
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| technojabber | How to setup dun on on my Nokia N 900 | 03:18 |
| technojabber | I tried to do it through this bluetooth app but it never works | 03:20 |
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| technojabber | Very quiet in here | 03:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | alas | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ideally the traffic would have moved to #n950 | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | but... | 03:31 |
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| Macer | heh | 03:32 |
| Macer | technojabber: you have to install the support | 03:32 |
| Macer | i remember having to do it...and managing to get it working but i can't remember how | 03:32 |
| Macer | it has been quite a while | 03:32 |
| Macer | i usually just set up the wifi hotspot stuff | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | android not doing ad hoc is annoying | 03:33 |
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| technojabber | Ok | 03:33 |
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| technojabber | Does anyone know what other phones run the memo os | 03:34 |
| technojabber | I mean maemo os | 03:35 |
| cehteh | the n900 is the only one | 03:36 |
| cehteh | (except some development models maybe) | 03:36 |
| technojabber | Ok | 03:37 |
| technojabber | What about the n800 | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not a phone | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | plus, it runs the earlier very different version | 03:38 |
| technojabber | I see | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | and the hardware is looking very, very dated capacity wise | 03:38 |
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| cehteh | only the n701 (or whats the type?) is worse :P | 03:39 |
| technojabber | Is it none usable | 03:39 |
| robbiethe1st | N770 | 03:39 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, it all depends on what you want | 03:39 |
| robbiethe1st | If you're doing anything web-wise, I'd not go with anything less than the N900 | 03:40 |
| robbiethe1st | For an Arduino output device or something... | 03:40 |
| technojabber | Are they becoming redundant | 03:40 |
| technojabber | The N series | 03:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh, I don't understand | 03:41 |
| cehteh | the N company becoming redundant :) | 03:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Nokia... is already practically dead. MS assured us of that | 03:42 |
| robbiethe1st | I still use my N900 for media/ebook/light web usage/SSH(remote control), but admittedly it's getting long in the tooth. I can't find anything better, though | 03:42 |
| technojabber | Have no nokia a future | 03:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Until they give up on Windows Phone(not likely for now), they're screwed | 03:43 |
| robbiethe1st | *nobody* likes Microsoft products. | 03:43 |
| technojabber | The Nokia N 900 has a very cool FM transmit transmitter | 03:44 |
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| robbiethe1st | Yes | 03:44 |
| robbiethe1st | Not that powerful, but very cool | 03:44 |
| robbiethe1st | Consider, though, that you can get cheap FM transmitters that just plug into /any/ device via the audio port cheaply, so... | 03:45 |
| technojabber | I transmit stuff from it to my car stereo | 03:45 |
| technojabber | I think it has a radius of about 2 feet | 03:46 |
| robbiethe1st | I used to, then I replaced my stereo with a $20 amplifier off Ebay. | 03:46 |
| technojabber | I can even transmit internet radio | 03:47 |
| robbiethe1st | The question is, why use FM, which is low-quality, when you can just use an auxilary input? | 03:48 |
| cehteh | its hard to override a FM station .. but when you find some free frequency and you figure out where its best to place then it can send farer away | 03:48 |
| cehteh | up to 5m works, 2m with good quality | 03:49 |
| cehteh | problem is that the Car hifi antenna is most commonly outside | 03:49 |
| technojabber | My car stereo has a USB port | 03:49 |
| cehteh | sometimes it works to place the n900 close to the device itself | 03:50 |
| technojabber | several ways I can input media | 03:50 |
| technojabber | When your transmit internet radio via the n900 FM | 03:52 |
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| technojabber | perfectly clear | 03:53 |
| technojabber | Better then DAB | 03:53 |
| technojabber | FM transmitter is just of the things I like about that phone | 03:56 |
| technojabber | And it air crack app | 03:57 |
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| cehteh | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/02/12/176250/6700-phone-uses-android-instead-of-windows | 04:08 |
| cehteh | muaha .. even ventu leaves the boat | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, almost business as usual again (recovery from IT breakage and new PC) | 05:30 |
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| LouisDK | hi | 06:59 |
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| eccerr0r | the pidgin status menu plugin = power hog... | 07:18 |
| LouisDK | anyone that still use their N900 as main phone? | 07:19 |
| eccerr0r | just started :o | 07:19 |
| LouisDK | eccerr0r: You just started using N900 as your main phone? :) | 07:25 |
| eccerr0r | yes, it replaced a broken 5230. | 07:25 |
| eccerr0r | google makes me itchy, same as apple and M$. | 07:26 |
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| LouisDK | well. Elop makes me more itchy. | 07:29 |
| eccerr0r | this was before that decision,... I don't know what I want for future phones, openmoko might be the only choice. | 07:30 |
| Sc0rpius | I thought the WHOLE pidgin was a power hog | 07:36 |
| Sc0rpius | but is it just the status menu applet? | 07:36 |
| Sc0rpius | because if that's so I'm uninstalling it RIGHT NOW | 07:36 |
| eccerr0r | well, it seems to eat less without the status menu. | 07:36 |
| Sc0rpius | phone lasts like 4 hours to me when pidgin is loaded | 07:36 |
| eccerr0r | unfortunately you cant use it without the core pidgin so I have to remove as much as I can.. | 07:36 |
| LouisDK | lets hope jolla will release something nice | 07:37 |
| Sc0rpius | let's hope Jolla release something at all | 07:37 |
| Sc0rpius | but it seems Ubuntu phone will do it first | 07:37 |
| Sc0rpius | I'd really love a fast phone | 07:38 |
| Sc0rpius | the N900 is so slow :( it really gets on my nerves sometimes | 07:38 |
| Sc0rpius | but there's no good replacement for it yet out there | 07:38 |
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| eccerr0r | I've been using a 5230, this is actually faster... but then again my celeron 500 is faster than the n900 | 07:39 |
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| WizardNumberNext | 100mbps=~11.4957439 after MAC and IP+TCP overhead | 08:29 |
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| WizardNumberNext | strongly AGREE on FSP PSU - I have two. One died, other one is perfectly fine. Both used in server and most probably constantly on egde of overloading or even overloaded. The one, which died have defective capacitor - that I am sure without checking, because I know the behaviour - running fine until you connect something to it. After connection is made it dies, | 08:36 |
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| iluminator105 | n900 camera internal error | 08:42 |
| iluminator105 | how do i revert back to stock camera app | 08:42 |
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| iluminator105 | how do i revert back to stock camera app | 09:03 |
| andre__ | what isn't stock for you? | 09:09 |
| andre__ | need to know what you did before. | 09:09 |
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| Macer | find a way to put maemo on my e7 already :-P | 09:16 |
| iluminator105 | this new camera is buggy | 09:17 |
| iluminator105 | newer camera is buggy | 09:18 |
| andre__ | iluminator105, what is "new" or "newer"? | 09:20 |
| andre__ | unclear. | 09:20 |
| iluminator105 | camera tried to open says internal error | 09:22 |
| andre__ | and before you did... what? | 09:23 |
| andre__ | you said "revert back to stock camera app". | 09:23 |
| andre__ | still no idea which camera app you use now. | 09:23 |
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| iluminator105 | standard camera app | 09:44 |
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| andre__ | iluminator105, standard is stock. | 10:04 |
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| iluminator105 | thats what i meant | 10:05 |
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| RST38h | ...Based on the D-class test subject's descriptions, the reptiles may have belonged to the genus Velociraptor. Each were dressed in a Japanese maid cosplay costume tailored to fit them... | 10:14 |
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| kerio | iluminator105 probably installed cssu | 12:21 |
| kerio | and hit some bug in nicocam | 12:22 |
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| kerio | eccerr0r: IM is quite battery-heavy in general | 12:27 |
| kerio | when using 3g | 12:27 |
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| technojabber | Hello | 15:16 |
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| technojabber | Have to register to use #python | 15:21 |
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| technojabber | Hi | 15:58 |
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| teotwaki | technojabber: and? | 16:12 |
| teotwaki | technojabber: then register | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | after all that's what nickserv is made for | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | technojabber: /msg nickserv help register | 16:19 |
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| tommis | is the repo still down? | 18:46 |
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| abissom | tommis: /topic | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yay, quiet earth? | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack | 19:25 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: aw, gee | 19:25 |
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| Guest53525 | underunixridlle1 | 19:34 |
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| eccerr0r | somewhat disappointed in power consumption, I had an IM client running on my symbian 5230, it didn't eat batteries as much. However running ssh on the 5230 kills the battery... | 19:42 |
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| eccerr0r | was running symbian-putty, leaving a ssh client idle would kill the battery in hours. | 19:42 |
| eccerr0r | I haven't tested openssh on the n900 though, and see how much it would kill the battery... | 19:43 |
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| Guest53525 | any body help me to under stand mirc | 19:46 |
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| Guest53525 | hello chenca | 19:46 |
| Guest53525 | can u help m eto under stand it | 19:47 |
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| teotwaki | eccerr0r: are you seriously comparing an IM client to an SSH server? | 19:58 |
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| eccerr0r | ssh client vs im client, why not? | 20:01 |
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| eccerr0r | One option for me for IM is to ssh into a machine and access its text mode IM client... the question is, which is less power. ideally when ssh isn't receiving or transmitting it shouldn't be any different than an idle IM client. | 20:04 |
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| kerio | ssh, too, has keepalives | 20:04 |
| kerio | they're probably much cheaper | 20:04 |
| kerio | but the issue is the beginning of transfer | 20:05 |
| eccerr0r | connection negotiation? | 20:05 |
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| eccerr0r | the only *possible* reason for why ssh eats more power is that it uses CPU to encrypt. but if IM is also encrypting, then that's ruled out. And it shouldn't account for 10x more power. running IM on the 5230 doesn't make the phone warm at all... | 20:09 |
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| eccerr0r | symbian putty... oh my... as bad as google maps | 20:09 |
| Sc0rpius | eccerr0r, when you talk about IM are you talking about pidgin? | 20:10 |
| eccerr0r | pidgin client, or any text-IM client. | 20:10 |
| Sc0rpius | because since pidgin was compiled for the N900 they didn't take any measure to be a mobile IM | 20:10 |
| Sc0rpius | but the native Conversation IM is different | 20:10 |
| Sc0rpius | pidgin pings way too much the servers that's why it drains your battery | 20:10 |
| Sc0rpius | nobody has ever took a look at pidgin and modify it to be a mobile application | 20:11 |
| Sc0rpius | it's a desktop application running in your phone, it's destined to fail | 20:11 |
| eccerr0r | are all symbian apps programmed correctly by design? | 20:11 |
| Sc0rpius | well not all but at least they were programmed FOR a mobile | 20:11 |
| Sc0rpius | pidgin was never programmed for mobile | 20:12 |
| eccerr0r | I can't say it should be a 10x difference though. | 20:12 |
| Sc0rpius | configure one account (GTalk) in your Conversations | 20:12 |
| eccerr0r | then again I have not done power comparision between pidgin and ssh... | 20:12 |
| Sc0rpius | and then spend a day with that logged in with no pidgin | 20:12 |
| Sc0rpius | and then another day with pidgin logged and Conversations logged off | 20:12 |
| Sc0rpius | you'll see what I mean. | 20:12 |
| Sc0rpius | well | 20:13 |
| Sc0rpius | if you have an idle SSH session you'll see no battery drain | 20:13 |
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| Sc0rpius | but open an SSH session and make it run an ls -alR / every second | 20:13 |
| Sc0rpius | your battery will last 20 minutes | 20:13 |
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| eccerr0r | right, I was hoping for idle... but idle putty on symbian eats batteries like mad. call that a crappy mobile app? | 20:14 |
| Sc0rpius | pidgin doesn't idle AT ALL | 20:15 |
| Sc0rpius | (that was my point before) | 20:15 |
| Sc0rpius | it pings the servers all the time and retrieves information of users logging on and off, it's really for desktops. | 20:15 |
| eccerr0r | well it needs to do that even for a mobile app. | 20:15 |
| Sc0rpius | maybe they port putty to Symbian | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | that's a mistake | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | you have to create an SSH client from scratch, coding for a mobile phone is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than coding for desktops | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | TOOOOOOOTALLY DIFFERENT | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | people always forget that | 20:16 |
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| eccerr0r | nah not at all | 20:16 |
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| eccerr0r | you do have to be careful, that's for sure | 20:16 |
| eccerr0r | the thing is, all mobile apps will run just fine on a desktop | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | sometimes you have to sacrifice good code in order to get speed and save battery | 20:16 |
| eccerr0r | so they cannot be different. | 20:16 |
| Sc0rpius | (that means sometimes you have to do BAD things and BAD coding to make it better) | 20:17 |
| Sc0rpius | for example | 20:17 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: to be fair, desktop apps should also try to reduce load as much as possible | 20:18 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah but nobody does that since desktops are so powerful they don't notice that IO was 0.000002 usecs slower than it should be | 20:18 |
| Sc0rpius | coding Yappari have made me realize how BAD A PHONE the N900 is | 20:19 |
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| Sc0rpius | writing a line in a file: 5 minutes less of battery | 20:19 |
| Sc0rpius | sending something through the network: 2 minutes less of battery | 20:19 |
| Sc0rpius | and it's very hard to keep everything in memory and touch the disk and network only when it's extremely necessary | 20:20 |
| Sc0rpius | and then it really pisses me off that an iPhone lasts a week with 3G on 24 hours every day. | 20:20 |
| Sc0rpius | :( | 20:21 |
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| eccerr0r | there's no question that the n900 is older and hungrier than other phones but I hope you're not asking for a better phone so you can program more sloppily. | 20:23 |
| Sc0rpius | you clearly haven't code anything for the N900 :) | 20:23 |
| eccerr0r | nah, but I've developed hardware and have to worry about its power consumption. | 20:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | I would loved a more balanced phone | 20:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | that you can do basic IO without sacrificing battery that much | 20:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | including network | 20:24 |
| ShadowJK | my spare N900 lasts over week on 3g :) | 20:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | my N900 doesn't last 4 hours in 3G | 20:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | and I don't think my battery is bad or something | 20:25 |
| eccerr0r | I'm using my 2-year old plus 5230 battery in my n900. | 20:25 |
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| kerio | Sc0rpius: can't you use push notifications? | 20:26 |
| kerio | also, my n900 lasts a lot more than 4 hours in 3g, when idlish | 20:26 |
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| ShadowJK | 4 hours is about the time you'd get with constant data transfer in medium-poor signal conditions | 20:27 |
| Sc0rpius | I know that every tuesday and thursday | 20:27 |
| Sc0rpius | I connect my N900 religiously at 2 pm | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | or high rate of transfer in good signal conditions | 20:28 |
| Sc0rpius | and at 5:30 pm it turns off, battery dead | 20:28 |
| Sc0rpius | with just pidgin and Yappari connected (and modest) | 20:28 |
| Sc0rpius | if I disconnect pidgin it last like 1 more hour | 20:28 |
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| ShadowJK | I don't know what those softwares do, but if they do a constant frequent small packets of data, instead of occasional databurst, then they'll get approximately same battery life as the declared wcdma talk time | 20:32 |
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| ShadowJK | Just how 3g works | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | joining half a dozen very active irc channels in xchat has the same effect :) | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | Though if you use a bouncer that sends you scrollback when you connect, and do discon on screen blank and recon on screen activate, battery use is reduced to slightly more than that of just the screen on its own, and battery draw starts depending more on how often and long screen is on.. | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | despite amount of transfered bytes being almost identical in either case | 20:35 |
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| kerio | Sc0rpius: pidgin or the weird n900 im thing? | 20:46 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: i suppose that burst transfers are much, much better than a constant slow throughput thing? | 20:46 |
| Sc0rpius | pidgin, I don't use Conversations as an IM | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; yes | 20:46 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: well then you only have yourself to blame | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; basically any data packet, however small, sent or received, keeps 3g transmitting for a minimum period of time defined by the operator. My operator has 5s | 20:47 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: otoh, you'd lose the I part of IM | 20:48 |
| ShadowJK | so if I'm in irc on 3g, and someone types something or something happens (join/part, etc) in any channel every 5s, it's equivalent to being on a call constantly, in terms of powerdraw | 20:48 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: so the solution is to stay in channels that are constantly active | 20:49 |
| kerio | so at least you have a good reason for the power draw :D | 20:49 |
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| qwazix | ShadowJK, any non-hackish way to accomplish disconnection on blanking? | 20:49 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; when I get excessive spare time I'm going to modify bouncer to queue messages at my server when N900 screen is off, except for PMs and highlights :) | 20:49 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: you mean, stop sending messages except when some PM or highlight happens on /SCREENOFF and start again on /SCREENON | 20:51 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 20:51 |
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| ShadowJK | or when a set number of queued bytes is reached. xchat is kinda slow at eating multimegabyte bursts | 20:51 |
| kerio | neat | 20:52 |
| kerio | write a znc plugin | 20:52 |
| kerio | you'll make DocScrutinizer happy | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | Oh also, this 3g behaviour approximately also means that for the same power you stream a single song, you can download 10 songs | 20:52 |
| kerio | well, not really | 20:53 |
| kerio | it depends on how much you buffer | 20:53 |
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| kerio | buffer the whole song, like grooveshark does, and it's equal to the download of one song | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | streaming servers themselves seem to always have too small buffers | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | like they don't have data they can send | 20:54 |
| kerio | shoutcast is teh fail, indeed | 20:54 |
| * ShadowJK was planning to make a time-delay on his server for the radio channels he'd want to stream, so I'd get a megabyte burst immediately, and then no data until N900 had 100k left, followed by a burst | 20:55 | |
| ShadowJK | when I get excessive spare time... | 20:55 |
| kerio | why would 100k be a lot of data? | 20:55 |
| kerio | make it a lot bigger | 20:55 |
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| ShadowJK | N900 side buffer would drain until 100k was left, margin because there's latency in getting 3g data transfer active from idle, etc.. it would then be refilled to 1M, data transfer would stop | 20:59 |
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| eccerr0r | how are repository hash sum mismatches handled on r.m.o? | 22:57 |
| eccerr0r | and what sucks is that for some reason I get a gateway timeout while downloading skeiron.org's extra-devel packages file | 23:01 |
| eccerr0r | (whereas r.m.o downloads fine) | 23:01 |
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| teotwaki | Estel_: full disclosure, not talking behind your back: https://twitter.com/teotwaki/status/301799373283680256 | 23:06 |
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| kerio | ohohohoh | 23:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/ff11b9336b | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I annouce I suspend my work with maemo administration | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since HiFo (Robert Bauer has NFC how real life can work) | 23:44 |
| Sc0rpius | :O | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf this guy is thinking I'm doing the whole day when finally I follow his weird ideas of management? forwarding mails to him and forwarding his answers to somebody else who asked? | 23:47 |
| Sc0rpius | basically they named you administrator manager but you can't manage adminstrators (aka "hiring" them) | 23:47 |
| Sc0rpius | so all the administration work has to be done by yourself even if you have no time for it | 23:47 |
| Sc0rpius | and if you think you need help, only the Board will decide if you really need it. | 23:47 |
| Sc0rpius | and they always will say no | 23:48 |
| Sc0rpius | no surprises here. | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, either that or I simply do nothing, which is what I'm going to do right now | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you can call this the day maemo died | 23:48 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer: oy, get off that horse. | 23:50 |
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| kerio | teotwaki: the day maemo.org died? | 23:50 |
| teotwaki | "I quit. From now on, we shall call this day, 'The day Maemo died'" | 23:50 |
| Sc0rpius | hehe | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, see what gets done when HiFo is managing *everything* | 23:51 |
| kerio | well, unless warfare is taking care of that, this is certainly the day *.maemo.org dies, because of the firewall | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have exactly 2 more weeks, and then Nemein will probably shut down the servers | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you don't understand what's going on. Warfare MUSTN'T take care of anything, since he's not appointed by HiFo for doing that | 23:52 |
| Sc0rpius | let Maemo die | 23:52 |
| kerio | oic | 23:52 |
| kerio | why does he have root, then? | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because I did stuff I also wasn't allowed to do | 23:53 |
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| kerio | clearly you should've asked the board | 23:53 |
| kerio | i mean, they've been so proactive | 23:53 |
| Sc0rpius | haha | 23:54 |
| kerio | seriously though, what the fuck | 23:54 |
| kerio | aren't they maemo fanboys too? | 23:54 |
| kerio | don't they want things to work? | 23:54 |
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| teotwaki | kerio: oh, don't you jest | 23:54 |
| teotwaki | kerio: power and bureaucracy will destroy a lot of ethics and love. | 23:55 |
| teotwaki | No matter how much someone loves a project, a product or a company. | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, Robert is another one who claims to do all in interest of maemo, but actually kills it by his misconceived notion about how stuff works | 23:55 |
| teotwaki | Put them in charge, and that love will disappear in an instant. | 23:55 |
| Sc0rpius | I think he just want you out of the picture | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, just he's discarding the picture instead of me | 23:56 |
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| kerio | still works! | 23:56 |
| kerio | does he realize that he's doing that, though? | 23:57 |
| n900-dk | How can we make HiFo approve warfare asap? | 23:57 |
| teotwaki | Give me his address, I'll bring the pliers. | 23:57 |
| teotwaki | I'm going to say, 3 nails, and he signs the approval. | 23:58 |
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| merlin1991 | teotwaki: hm based on "Put them in charge, and that love will disappear in an instant." I have to be the dictator of cssu :D | 23:58 |
| teotwaki | merlin1991: oh, you definitely are, you 21 year old kid. | 23:59 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: old picture and new picture: http://i.imgur.com/eqjVogU.jpg | 23:59 |
| teotwaki | crap, people born in the 90s are in their 20s already? | 23:59 |
| kerio | teotwaki: he's the dictator of half of cssu! | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk: warfare is approved as sysop, but not as admin manager, and even if he were he couldn't create an account for merlin to get repo hashsum fixed until HiFo approves merlin1991 during their next meeting which maybe is sheduled for mid of March | 23:59 |
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