IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-01-26

kerio	Pali: the problem is that the design reported for my battery is 1200mAh	00:00
Estel_	well, as ShadowJK said, even laptops use last measured capacityp now design one	00:00
ShadowJK	freemangordon; Nokia battery management is plagued by legacy. I suspect N9 and lumia are only sane devices. N900 is a hybrid :)	00:00
kerio	when it's ~1400 in reality	00:00
Estel_	s/now/not/	00:00
infobot	Estel_ meant: well, as ShadowJK said, even laptops use last measured capacityp not design one	00:00
Estel_	when not calibrated	00:00
Pali	kerio, negative and hight value as 100 should not be reported	00:00
Pali	never	00:00
freemangordon	ShadowJK: sure BME in n900 is crap. But we have the chance to fix that	00:01
Estel_	well, my battery is 3000 mAh and reported as 1300, does it count? :P	00:01
ShadowJK	freemangordon; well it's not just sw, it's hw too	00:01
*** konelix__ has quit IRC		00:01
Estel_	ok, so don't fix it by enforcing other crap on users, even for few cycles. Use default for dummies, and allow others to overwrite priorities, even by hidden config file or sysfsentrey or whatever	00:02
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo		00:02
Estel_	hello sixwheeledbeast :)	00:02
FIQ	I'm still very curious how my situation is handled by bme	00:02
FIQ	as I have two different batteries and charge both externally	00:02
freemangordon	guys, imagine, you enter a shop and bye a battery. you put it in the device. what capacity you'd expect to be reported?	00:03
FIQ	(both are genuine nokia batteries)	00:03
Estel_	freemangordon, so i said, let it be as you proposed for dummies	00:03
sixwheeledbeast	Estel_: Hi you will have to excuse me (poor inet connection due to snow)	00:03
Estel_	then, allow others to overwrite priority settings for applet	00:03
Estel_	instead of hardcoding it	00:03
kerio	freemangordon: who said that it should report a capacity? :)	00:03
freemangordon	Estel_: ask pali for that :P	00:03
Pali	we need %	00:04
Pali	and percentage is caluclated as current/design	00:04
freemangordon	kerio: because it is better to know if you've been sold an 800 mAh battery with changed sticker	00:04
kerio	Pali: % comes from bq27k, and is as accurate as you can get, considering that the design capacity is FUBAR	00:04
FIQ	My experience is that my charge very rarely show "full", though that can be my external charger's problem	00:04
Estel_	I just want to be able to set it to use bq always, and ignore rx51. SET IT, not demanding it being like that by default	00:04
FIQ	though I don't think so	00:04
kerio	freemangordon: you can't know that until you do a cycle or two	00:04
kerio	FIQ: update to the very latest kp52	00:04
kerio	(january 2013)	00:04
*** Muelli has quit IRC		00:04
freemangordon	kerio: you can if only the sticker is changed	00:04
kerio	Estel_: +1	00:04
FIQ	kerio: hmmmmmm why?	00:04
*** toxaris has quit IRC		00:05
kerio	freemangordon: this battery reports 1200, but it's 1400 in reality	00:05
*** toxaris has joined #maemo		00:05
kerio	FIQ: the charge termination sense is set at 100 instead of 150, maybe it's that	00:05
Estel_	if we're getting rid of damn bme, lets not do enforcing hardcoded things again	00:05
freemangordon	kerio: so? did you think it is genuine nokia 1430 mAh?	00:05
Estel_	safe default for dummies that doesn't want to see 2048 after chip reset...	00:05
Estel_	and configurability, even if by text file or whatever, for others	00:05
freemangordon	kerio: I guess no	00:06
FIQ	kerio: charge termination.. as in the time for when the charging is stopped?	00:06
kerio	FIQ: yeah	00:06
FIQ	i.e. when it's considered "full"	00:06
Estel_	freemangordon, we're using non-genuine code	00:06
FIQ	uhh but how is that relevant	00:06
Estel_	instead of genuine bme :P	00:06
FIQ	I use an external charger	00:06
Estel_	so who said we need to use genuine hw battery?	00:06
kerio	FIQ: i have no idea, it might be a hald-addon-bme discrepancy between stock and replacement	00:06
FIQ	<FIQ> My experience is that my charge very rarely show "full", though that can be my external charger's problem	00:06
FIQ	"external charger"	00:06
freemangordon	Estel_: I am not against configuratio ;)	00:06
Pali	now hald-addon-bme doing this: when battery is not calibrated it calculate bars (0-8) from battery voltage from hardcoded values	00:07
FIQ	anyway, I guess I can update to kp52 anyway	00:07
Estel_	good to hear ;)	00:07
FIQ	There's just one problem...	00:07
kerio	FIQ: mind you, "full" is a lie, except for like the very minute the charge ends	00:07
FIQ	extras-devel is done	00:07
kerio	once the charge ends, the battery starts to discharge	00:07
Pali	and I think this can be ok	00:07
FIQ	*down	00:07
kerio	FIQ: hold on, is your issue with the replacement bme?	00:07
Estel_	your idea for default behavior - rx51 when not calibrated, then bq27x00 when calibrated - is sane	00:07
FIQ	kerio: yeah	00:07
kerio	k	00:07
freemangordon	Pali: no other option aiui	00:07
FIQ	kerio: Uh I think I use the stock one	00:07
Estel_	just let us overwrite it with whatever priorities we feel fancy ;)	00:07
*** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC		00:07
FIQ	"yeah" was @ once the charge ends, the battery starts to discharge	00:07
kerio	FIQ: then "full" is even less of a reality for you	00:08
Estel_	Pali, it looks good	00:08
*** konelix__ has joined #maemo		00:08
freemangordon	Estel_: toldya, ask Pali for that :)	00:08
FIQ	I see	00:08
kerio	it takes power to boot the n900 :)	00:08
FIQ	right	00:08
Pali	yes, so "current" mAh is calulated from "bars"	00:08
Pali	in non caibrated state	00:08
kerio	and bme doesn't really know wtf to do with a newly-inserted battery	00:08
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo		00:08
freemangordon	kerio: neither is bq :)	00:08
freemangordon	aiui	00:08
FIQ	Oh well, just wondering what it tries to report	00:08
Estel_	Pali, good idea, but why make yourself trouble by coding that, instead of just exporting priorities to be configurable by user?	00:08
FIQ	as my batteries, while theoretically being the same, have different life lengths and probably different charges in practice	00:09
Estel_	Pali, even by single hidden file, we won't tell anyone :P	00:09
freemangordon	Estel_: wh should have some sane values reporteb to not-that-smart users :)	00:09
freemangordon	*we	00:09
Estel_	freemangordon, so we have "sane" rx51 now reported to less smart users	00:09
FIQ	and I happily swap them every charge, they essentially never stay in the N900 for more than one charge as I never charge on the N900	00:10
freemangordon	Pali was talking about bars and charge	00:10
Estel_	smart ones can do config change. Or code it, if you want, no problem with it - just don't sacrifice configurability	00:10
Pali	in hald-addon-bme is this code: if (capacity < 0) capacity = 0; else if (capacity > 100) capacity = 100;	00:10
Pali	so 110 % is impossible ^^^	00:10
Estel_	bars are nice, as long as we can disable them :P	00:10
freemangordon	Estel_: well, i propose that for some future version	00:11
FIQ	having an accurate % showing would probably be impossible for me, but it would be nice anyway :p	00:11
Estel_	whatever you will do will be good, as long as one can set up - even by config file - to use bq27x00 and screw rest	00:11
freemangordon	lets have everything in place (as logic) i guess it can be tweaked later on	00:11
Estel_	freemangordon, why not	00:11
Pali	kerio ^^^^^	00:11
kerio	i agree	00:11
Estel_	:)	00:12
kerio	although i still think that the default behaviour when facing a calibrated bq27200 should be to blindly report what it reports	00:12
Estel_	now tell me you all missed me :P	00:12
Estel_	kerio, enough :P	00:12
Estel_	even if I agree :P	00:12
kerio	because a calibrated bq27200 IS THE LAW	00:12
kerio	like judge dredd	00:13
freemangordon	kerio: I guess Pali is doing that not only for you and Estel_ :P. And if I got it right, CSSU is the long-term goal. Thus we MUST think for guys and gals who have NFC what bq or rx51 is	00:14
Estel_	until you calibrated it with low usage, and then, do constant 1A power draw - battery will die, while reporting 600 mAh still left :	00:14
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC		00:15
kerio	Estel_: i usually calibrate with ~200mA of constant draw	00:15
freemangordon	kerio: BTW did you manage to go over 470 mA?	00:15
kerio	freemangordon: camera, torch, gps, wifi, cpu	00:15
kerio	i got to 950mA	00:15
kerio	:D	00:15
freemangordon	nice :D	00:15
kerio	for a bit	00:15
ShadowJK	FIQ; bme has voltage curve thresholds. Primarily it tracks by counting current in/out, within specific voltage profile of a specific profiled battery. If battery is fresher or older than the profile (fixed profile, not adjustable), the reported charge level either freezes or makes a big jump. In border cases you get funny behaviour like hundred percent forever until empty :)	00:15
xes	kerio: ..with torch application?	00:16
Estel_	freemangordon, sure. That's why I said configurability as an option, not enforcing anyone	00:16
FIQ	ShadowJK: I see	00:16
Estel_	xes, torch is quite power-savyy	00:16
kerio	xes: with cssu's nicocam	00:16
FIQ	the light draws much power?	00:17
kerio	push t	00:17
Estel_	one need recording video in hd (camera + cpu + dsp usage), gps, bluetooth, wifi without power saving, screen on at max brightness	00:17
Estel_	etc	00:17
Estel_	+ torch	00:17
Estel_	to get above 1A	00:17
Estel_	light is around 100mA IIRC	00:17
freemangordon	ooh, camera focus is about 100mA too, iirc	00:17
SpeedEvil	and download a file over 3g	00:17
Estel_	which makes N900 a 30h flashlight with dual-scud	00:17
SpeedEvil	with the vibrator on	00:17
kerio	heh, i didn't really want to stress the system too much	00:17
kerio	vibrator and camera focus engine all firing up at the same time	00:18
Estel_	SpeedEvil, or send zeroes or urandom through 3G :P	00:18
freemangordon	kerio: why not, don;t you have a second device? :P	00:18
kerio	freemangordon: i should really do something with that one	00:18
Estel_	lets write app "battery killer"	00:18
Estel_	that enables everything at once	00:18
Estel_	and keeps it that way	00:18
xes	there is way to measure the usb host mode current?	00:18
Estel_	sure	00:18
kerio	xes: 200mA	00:18
kerio	flat	00:18
kerio	...kinda	00:19
Estel_	check what bq27x00 reports	00:19
freemangordon	Estel_: I think it is way easier to use a hammer to kill the battery :D	00:19
Estel_	freemangordon, as a discharge tool	00:19
Estel_	+ activate it via ssh	00:19
Estel_	to scarry people	00:19
DocScrutinizer05	xes: no, you can't measure VBUS-BOOST	00:19
Estel_	DocScrutinizer05, increased usage is shown as difference in current-now	00:19
*** Muelli has joined #maemo		00:19
DocScrutinizer05	you can detect overcurrent cutout condition though, which will happen at 200mA	00:19
Estel_	mA draw of devixe changes	00:19
Estel_	with known values without device attached, one can measure how much device attached uses	00:20
DocScrutinizer05	sure, but that will usually dissolve in noise of normal powerconsumption of device	00:20
xes	i'm playing with an rtl-sdr receiver dongle but sometimes hangs ..i was supposing it was a problem with the usb current..	00:20
Estel_	s/devixe/device	00:20
DocScrutinizer05	xes: use a powerd hub	00:21
kerio	xes: put a powered usb hub between the receiver and the n900	00:21
Estel_	or y-cable	00:21
DocScrutinizer05	:-P	00:21
kerio	or a y-cable, yes	00:21
kerio	goddammit guys stop typing so fast	00:21
Estel_	my y-cable got name, even	00:21
Estel_	"Hammer of Thor"	00:21
Estel_	need to see it to understand	00:21
* kerio sometimes uses two y-cables to draw 1A from a computer		00:22
DocScrutinizer05	my Y-cable got a anme as well: Joerg's Y-cable (invented in 2008 iirc, for Openmoko)	00:22
Estel_	...and you end up drawing 200 mA	00:22
xes	i'll try..but the fun would be a complete portable sdr receiver ;)	00:22
Estel_	due to lack of negotiation	00:22
Estel_	whatever sdr is	00:22
kerio	Estel_: nah, my laptop and/or os x aren't picky	00:22
kerio	xes: battery pack?	00:23
Estel_	doesn't matter, usb specification won't let it	00:23
kerio	there's very little you can do, if 200mA aren't enough	00:23
kerio	Estel_: apple doesn't care about your puny specifications	00:23
Estel_	battery pack is cheap	00:23
kerio	or something	00:23
xes	SDR? http://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html	00:23
Estel_	and 5V stabilizer is free from maxim	00:23
*** Ijon_Tichy has joined #maemo		00:23
*** sirdancealot has quit IRC		00:24
kerio	xes: neat!	00:24
Estel_	xes, looks neat, but what does it do?	00:25
Estel_	what samples over what?	00:25
Estel_	radio amateur?	00:25
Pali	Estel_, kerio, freemangordon: create wiki package and possible solutions what to show in battery widget and how to calculate it	00:25
Pali	also what should hald-addon-bme report	00:25
Estel_	wiki works @ 7b/s for me	00:25
Pali	and what should be "0" as unknown value	00:26
Estel_	so expect it in dawn of 2015	00:26
kerio	Pali: would you be ok with not displaying a capacity in some situations?	00:26
freemangordon	Pali: would you mind to put what's curren in cssu-devel?	00:26
freemangordon	*current	00:26
Pali	kerio, percentage must be always reported	00:26
kerio	i meant capacity as in max capacity	00:26
Pali	unknown design capacity is "0"	00:26
kerio	the number after /	00:26
* DocScrutinizer05 announcing service downtime of... DocScrutinizer05		00:27
Pali	yes, it can be 0	00:27
xes	Estel: yes.... imagine you can receive any kind of signal....and decode with a software block of code..	00:27
* kerio waves		00:27
kerio	take care doc	00:27
kerio	and sleep!	00:27
Hurrian	Pali, for user experience sake, could you set Design Capacity to 1300?	00:27
*** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC		00:27
DocScrutinizer05	live!	00:27
Estel_	xes, what, cryptography?	00:27
Hurrian	(if unset)	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	sleep is overrated	00:27
freemangordon	Hurrian: why?	00:27
kerio	sleep is overrated until you're tired ;)	00:27
freemangordon	that is what BME does	00:27
Hurrian	freemangordon, ah	00:27
freemangordon	and it drives me nuts	00:27
freemangordon	:D	00:27
Estel_	xes, cryptography over analog (or digital?) radio signal?	00:27
Pali	for now I wil not touch desing/max capacity code in status applet and hald-addon-bme	00:28
xes	Estel: the limit is fantasy and... cpu power	00:28
freemangordon	Hurrian: well, 1260, but it is the same	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: I had lots of it since yesterday, none since monday before that	00:28
Pali	create wiki page with solutions and we can discuss about variants	00:28
*** Ijon_Tichy has quit IRC		00:28
Estel_	xes, whoa, interesting, so it's kind of long-range wifi, just low on speed?	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	so: o/	00:29
Estel_	cpu power of computer, or of dongle chip?	00:29
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		00:29
freemangordon	Pali: push the current version in cssu-devel please, so we can work on changes/improvements based on some real-life scenarios	00:29
Hurrian	I was simply thinking, if replacement BME plus open battery module gets pushed into mainline CSSU, there'll be an entire storm of people bitching about their battery always being at 0%	00:29
Pali	freemangordon, last version is in cssu-devel	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	meh, for the friggin bot:	00:29
Pali	of status applet	00:29
kerio	Hurrian: nah, we want to avoid that	00:29
kerio	:)	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation, so o/	00:29
kerio	~seen DocScrutinizer05	00:30
freemangordon	Pali: aah, the one I deinstalled because of unusable bars with BME? :)	00:30
Pali	it should be version 1.0-2	00:30
infobot	docscrutinizer05 is currently on #maemo #n9 #harmattan #meego #openmoko #maemo-ssu #infobot #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 49 messages. Is idling for 20s, last said: 'kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation, so o/'.	00:30
*** Ethernin has quit IRC		00:30
xes	Estel: with that dongles you can receive from about 60MHz to 2000MHz... and decode any kind of modulation or signal	00:30
xes	bye DocScrutinizer05!	00:30
Estel_	xes, whoa	00:31
Estel_	need to read more about it, looks like my kind of heaven for modder	00:31
* freemangordon waves		00:31
kerio	xes: how can you send stuff, though?	00:31
Estel_	~60 mhz should be quite long-range capable	00:31
Estel_	kerio, those dongles send it	00:32
Estel_	instead of receiving	00:32
kerio	oh	00:32
kerio	...oh	00:32
Estel_	when properly treated	00:32
kerio	OH!	00:32
Estel_	with simple mod (very easy) and kernel modules and userland bits, approriate	00:32
Estel_	using this on the go with N900	00:32
Estel_	= more than mesh network	00:32
kerio	Estel_: maybe you can	00:32
kerio	with your bigass battery	00:33
xes	no kernel modules... only libs reading directly from usb	00:33
Estel_	just make yourself liIon belt	00:33
Estel_	xes, lol	00:33
Estel_	even better	00:33
kerio	Estel_: played minecraft ftb lately? :D	00:33
xes	until i'm receiving fm radio...and fmtx :)	00:33
Estel_	kerio, buy batteries best in price/capacity ration, and prepare bracelet/belt	00:33
Estel_	20 000mAh in your belt :P	00:33
Estel_	kerio, I ot only vague idea of what minecraft is	00:34
kerio	a game where you go around and build things	00:34
kerio	there's a popular modpack that adds a bunch of tecnical things	00:34
Estel_	xes, receiving and transmitting fm via those dongles is fun, but sending digital radio signal is more fun	00:34
kerio	including a bigass battery pack that you can wear instead of your chestplate, to automatically charge the electrical tools you use	00:35
Estel_	kerio, make it work on N900, the open source version :P	00:35
Estel_	in multiplayer	00:35
* SpeedEvil has a 528000mAh 'USB battery'		00:35
kerio	i know some of the minetest dudes	00:35
Estel_	we have too few online multiplayer games for N900	00:35
kerio	(minecraft clone)	00:35
SpeedEvil	it is not very portable.	00:35
Estel_	SpeedEvil, @ what voltage?	00:35
SpeedEvil	5v	00:35
kerio	Estel_: anyway, scuds are still 20€/piece, or something, right?	00:36
Estel_	528A? and it weight ten kilos?	00:36
SpeedEvil	it's really 212v110ah, with a SMPS	00:36
SpeedEvil	Estel_: no, not 10kg	00:36
Estel_	kerio, yes, but buying new, I recommend polarcell	00:36
kerio	right	00:36
Estel_	some claims new ones are 1700 mAh	00:36
kerio	but there's a 10€ battery on aliexpress that's still decent :D	00:36
kerio	vi____ got a 1600mAh one	00:36
Estel_	kerio, price/quality battery for belt should cost around 3 euro	00:37
Estel_	if bl-5j	00:37
Estel_	but for belt you can use other types	00:37
Estel_	with better density	00:37
Estel_	SpeedEvil, seriously, how much it weight?	00:37
*** f3bruary_awayyyy is now known as f3bruary		00:37
Estel_	and 528A is after taking into account conversion losses?	00:37
kerio	Estel_: i'm still waiting for the case redesign for the two 18650s, btw	00:37
SpeedEvil	Estel_: knock off 10*ish	00:38
Estel_	kerio, wait hapilly, it's proving so irritating, that I'm thinking about dropping it in favor of 3 flat batteries	00:38
SpeedEvil	10%	00:38
SpeedEvil	Estel_: maybe 40kg	00:38
Estel_	SpeedEvil, I see. How much it weight, approxi...?	00:38
Estel_	lol	00:38
Estel_	I though "no, no 10kg" was about that it's less heavy :P	00:38
SpeedEvil	it's got a raspberry pi plugged into it	00:39
SpeedEvil	and a 750w ups	00:39
Estel_	your pi is going to get quite overweight fedding into it	00:39
Estel_	kerio, btw	00:39
Estel_	do you have any random 18650of whatever state	00:39
Estel_	living or not	00:39
Estel_	to send me for some tests?	00:40
kerio	nope	00:40
kerio	i'm not a hardware guy at all	00:40
Estel_	damn, will need to scavenge some	00:40
Estel_	from old battery or whatever	00:40
Estel_	thickness it's not problem	00:40
Estel_	they're just little too long	00:40
Estel_	hard to put them there, considering secondary board with camera, even in V configuration	00:41
kerio	Estel_: what about shorter batteries?	00:41
Estel_	well, will give it some more love	00:41
Estel_	shorted would do it, but 14... ones doesn't have benefits of 18	00:41
*** f3bruary is now known as f3bruary_awayyyy		00:42
Estel_	more expensive, less popular etc	00:42
Estel_	so they stop being better than flat ones, at all	00:42
Estel_	choosing between two 14... and 3 flatties, I take 3 flatties	00:42
Estel_	althoug 18650 x 2 own even 3 flatties	00:42
kerio	Estel_: what can you do with the space of the stock cover?	00:42
kerio	say, something that fits inside an otterbox	00:43
*** q_plaz2 has joined #maemo		00:43
Estel_	stock covera? nothing, if it comes to battery	00:43
kerio	:(	00:43
Estel_	jst better kickstand	00:43
*** q_plaz has quit IRC		00:43
kerio	is it that tightly packed?	00:43
Estel_	etc	00:43
*** q_plaz2 has left #maemo		00:44
Estel_	well, look at your n900 with stock cover, where you want to put another battery	00:44
xes	Estel_: http://www.g0hww.net/2012/06/rtl-sdr-port-of-gr-air-modes-feeding.html	00:44
Estel_	if you mean body replacement, it will have all goddies in space of stock cover...	00:44
*** Tiksi[work]2 has joined #maemo		00:44
Estel_	except battery	00:44
FIQ	i've considered buying higher capacity batteries, but now that I have an external charger with not so optimal layout, there's no point	00:44
Estel_	xes, thanks	00:44
xes	;) feel the fantasy growing	00:45
*** Tiksi[work]2 is now known as q_plaz		00:45
Estel_	hole shit, 137 miles	00:46
Estel_	holy*	00:46
Estel_	I just hope that enough talented coders work on userland coding/decoding bits for it	00:47
Estel_	I wonder, btw, how high thoroughtput (bytes per second) for wireless communication would be achievable through it	00:47
Estel_	even if it would work for 10 miles reliably, it would be nice revolution for mesh networks	00:48
xes	it is only a receiver..	00:48
xes	no transmission	00:48
Estel_	and "we" would be ready to recreate free internet, when "they" take control over it ;)	00:48
Estel_	I know	00:48
Estel_	but	00:48
Estel_	transmission is also possible, or not? that is how I understood it from first link	00:49
Estel_	"sending 8bit samples at frequencies..." etc	00:49
xes	not with a 6 euro device :)	00:49
futpib_	so powerfull transmitter on usb-power, no way	00:49
Estel_	still, receiving capabilities are quite amazing	00:50
xes	in a few days i'll post all the packages compiled fot the n900	00:51
xes	*for	00:51
Estel_	whoa, nice	00:51
Estel_	just ping me with link if possible (or PM on TMO, if it will still work and I won't get banned in my sleep)	00:51
Estel_	next step - receiving signal from ISS ;)	00:52
xes	someone has already received the iss with this...	00:53
ShadowJK	Ugh, i've got massive backlog here. I'll reply in order, and apologies for redundant replies...	00:53
ShadowJK	FIQ: Boot-time bme current charge level (reporting.current) is pure guess. It's +-20% in best case.	00:54
ShadowJK	Pali, not calibrated, battery bars from voltage, sounds like one half of bme's current algo (which is half current based and half voltage based :))	00:56
ShadowJK	(good approach overall tho for uncalibrated sensors)	00:56
*** konelix__ has quit IRC		00:57
*** konelix__ has joined #maemo		00:58
ShadowJK	FIQ, in theory, accurate metering for your batteries (and constant swapping) would be possible, but it would be alot of work, and prone to error :)	00:58
ShadowJK	(tl:dr; not worth the effort)	00:59
*** florian has quit IRC		00:59
*** nox- has joined #maemo		01:02
*** futpib_ has quit IRC		01:02
*** futpib__ has joined #maemo		01:02
FIQ	ok	01:02
ShadowJK	On diablo I do this: Measure instantaneous current every 1s, integrate that. If accumulated value < 0, set value to 0. If voltage < 3400, set value to 0. If value > (user determined maximum capacity), set value to maximum user determined capacity.	01:04
ShadowJK	It tends to drift upwards :(	01:04
ShadowJK	Which is why I have max capa thing	01:05
SpeedEvil	5 seconds	01:05
ShadowJK	Diablo	01:05
SpeedEvil	the ADC polls every 5.12s IIRC	01:05
SpeedEvil	oh	01:05
ShadowJK	does not run on N900	01:05
SpeedEvil	nvm	01:05
SpeedEvil	sortty	01:05
*** xes has quit IRC		01:05
Estel_	xes, just add strong, directional transmitter, and build radar :)	01:05
Estel_	thing with planes is half of it, already	01:06
Estel_	based on receiving	01:06
ShadowJK	On N800 max capa is 800 (originally 1200), N810 1500 (should be 1300 or so, bought new batt last year)	01:06
*** konelix has joined #maemo		01:07
*** konelix__ has quit IRC		01:07
ShadowJK	I don't have have "full charge detection" in my script on Diablo... something that bq runs in hw	01:07
*** cityLights has joined #maemo		01:07
ShadowJK	Ran my diablo script (with 5s period instead of 1s) on fremantle too (with mods), and "full charge" could vary by +-100mAh depending on system load and stuff	01:08
*** teotwaki_ has quit IRC		01:12
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		01:13
*** futpib__ has quit IRC		01:15
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		01:16
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		01:17
*** GNUtoo-m4a785t-m has joined #maemo		01:17
*** GNUtoo-m4a785t-m has left #maemo		01:18
*** brzys has joined #maemo		01:19
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		01:20
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		01:23
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		01:23
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		01:23
Estel_	~Pali	01:23
infobot	pali is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/	01:23
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		01:24
*** florian has joined #maemo		01:24
*** florian has joined #maemo		01:24
*** brzys has quit IRC		01:25
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		01:29
*** konelix has quit IRC		01:29
*** toxaris has quit IRC		01:30
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		01:32
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		01:35
*** sq-one has quit IRC		01:35
*** NeutrinoPower has quit IRC		01:39
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		01:40
*** louisdk has quit IRC		01:40
*** croppa has joined #maemo		01:41
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		01:42
*** Aoyagi has left #maemo		01:45
*** cityLights has quit IRC		01:53
*** louisdk has joined #maemo		01:57
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		01:58
*** jonwil has joined #maemo		01:59
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		02:00
*** jophish has quit IRC		02:00
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		02:13
*** ron0062000 has joined #maemo		02:22
*** florian has quit IRC		02:27
*** ron0062000 has quit IRC		02:27
*** pauly1210 has joined #maemo		02:35
pauly1210	Can i use Maemo 5 SDK on x64 linux?	02:36
*** brzys has joined #maemo		02:36
pauly1210	the maemo wiki is down but the nokia developer page says a 32 bit ubnutu would work>	02:37
pauly1210	?	02:37
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		02:37
ShadowJK	I used the VM image on linux	02:38
pauly1210	ShadowJK: ya i dont think scratchbox would work, i forgot about the vm thanks	02:40
*** Muelli has quit IRC		02:41
ShadowJK	All the infra is in a state of flux right now, so I dunno what's up and what's down or whether you'll be able to download the vm or not :/	02:42
*** ccxmo has joined #maemo		02:43
pauly1210	ShadowJK: how about just getting Qt Creator ?	02:44
ShadowJK	heh	02:46
ShadowJK	If it works for you, why not	02:46
*** louisdk has quit IRC		02:49
*** githogori has joined #maemo		02:50
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		02:52
bef0rd	get qtcreator from nokia	02:55
bef0rd	Nokia Qt SDK its called I believe	02:55
bef0rd	http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/da8df288-e615-443d-be5c-00c8a72435f8/Qt_SDK.html	02:56
pauly1210	bef0rd: thanks downloading now	03:01
*** wmarone has quit IRC		03:13
*** wmarone has joined #maemo		03:22
*** teotwaki_ has joined #maemo		03:23
*** WielkiTost has quit IRC		03:25
*** jade has quit IRC		03:25
*** markinfo has quit IRC		03:25
*** jade has joined #maemo		03:26
*** jade has quit IRC		03:26
*** jade has joined #maemo		03:26
*** Luke-Jr has joined #maemo		03:29
*** pewter_tao has quit IRC		03:30
*** wirr has quit IRC		03:39
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC		03:40
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		03:41
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		03:53
*** kolp has quit IRC		03:54
*** croppa has quit IRC		04:02
*** croppa has joined #maemo		04:03
*** Hurrian has quit IRC		04:07
*** mvp_ has quit IRC		04:17
*** Martix_ has joined #maemo		04:18
*** teotwaki_ has quit IRC		04:18
*** ccssnet has quit IRC		04:20
*** ccssnet has joined #maemo		04:21
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		04:23
*** jonwil has quit IRC		04:27
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		04:29
*** goldkatze has joined #maemo		04:32
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo		04:33
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		04:37
*** FIQ has quit IRC		04:38
*** FredrIQ is now known as FIQ		04:38
*** guampa has quit IRC		04:52
*** maybeArgh has joined #maemo		05:00
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC		05:04
*** loganbr has quit IRC		05:04
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		05:10
*** jrocha has quit IRC		05:17
*** githogori has quit IRC		05:21
*** pauly1210 has quit IRC		05:25
*** Pali has quit IRC		05:32
*** Martix_ has quit IRC		05:36
*** tilppis has quit IRC		05:47
*** Psi has quit IRC		05:53
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC		06:04
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo		06:04
*** Psi has joined #maemo		06:06
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		06:28
*** radic has quit IRC		06:28
*** uen\| has joined #maemo		06:32
*** uen has quit IRC		06:35
*** uen\| is now known as uen		06:35
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		06:44
*** radic has joined #maemo		06:44
*** eijk_ has quit IRC		06:56
*** schen has joined #maemo		07:02
*** nox- has quit IRC		07:04
*** goldkatze has quit IRC		07:07
*** githogori has joined #maemo		07:08
*** stardiviner has quit IRC		07:33
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo		07:34
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo		07:35
*** pcfe` has quit IRC		07:35
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo		07:35
*** pcfe has quit IRC		07:38
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		08:23
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		08:23
*** _rd has joined #maemo		08:49
*** _rd has quit IRC		09:02
*** keithzg_ has quit IRC		09:10
*** wirr has joined #maemo		09:11
*** keithzg has joined #maemo		09:16
*** wirr has quit IRC		09:41
*** int_ua has joined #maemo		09:46
*** _rd has joined #maemo		09:50
*** florian has joined #maemo		09:54
*** florian has quit IRC		10:13
*** thuttu77 has quit IRC		10:20
*** Darkchaos has joined #maemo		10:23
*** sasquatch has quit IRC		10:29
*** thuttu77 has joined #maemo		10:29
*** sasquatch has joined #maemo		10:29
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		10:36
*** hardaker has quit IRC		10:45
*** VitaoDoidao has quit IRC		10:46
*** toxaris has joined #maemo		10:48
freemangordon	romaxa: is there any documentation of embedLite API? or header files are supposed to be enough?	10:57
*** eijk has joined #maemo		11:02
*** romaxa has quit IRC		11:16
*** romaxa has joined #maemo		11:16
*** Guest12966 has joined #maemo		11:29
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo		11:32
*** nakugaka has joined #maemo		11:32
*** Guest12966 has quit IRC		11:35
*** aloril has quit IRC		11:39
*** Pali has joined #maemo		11:50
*** romaxa has quit IRC		11:53
*** InvalidHandle has joined #maemo		11:53
*** nakugaka has quit IRC		11:53
*** romaxa has joined #maemo		11:54
*** toxaris has quit IRC		11:55
*** aloril has joined #maemo		11:56
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		12:06
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		12:10
*** freemangordon has quit IRC		12:11
*** Darkchaos has quit IRC		12:11
*** futpib has joined #maemo		12:14
kerio	calibrated the battery, 1420mAh for 10$	12:15
*** schen has quit IRC		12:15
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC		12:16
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		12:17
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		12:22
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		12:22
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		12:22
Estel_	I'm thinking about writin small set of scripta (tm) allowing people to automagically migrate to ext4 (and back to ext3) for /home, if desired	12:23
Estel_	it would consist of small backupmenu fork (for would be standalone, as it would be useful for anyone on kernel-power, allowing better compression - lzma instead of gzip - bq4... charging, and so goes on), and scripts modifying mount-opts to utilize ext4 benefits during home mount	12:24
Estel_	ext4-migrant would depend on this backupmenu fork and some feature of kernel-power	12:25
Estel_	now, I don't want to depend on kernel power, as what I really need is ext4 support, by this or any other kernel. So, I think that depending on certain feature provided by kernel power, would be better suited	12:26
Estel_	in case of hypothetical other kernel providing ext4 support, it could just provide same feature	12:26
Estel_	now, my question is - does anyone see caveats in this approach, in this certain case?	12:27
kerio	Estel_: base it on rescueos instead	12:27
Estel_	of course stuff will be highly experimental and at own risk, yet, I would like to minimise risk of bricking...	12:27
Estel_	kerio, resuceos won't be automagical ;)	12:27
kerio	make it automagical	12:28
Estel_	and I planned to fork backupmenu for kernel-power users only, too	12:28
Estel_	i.e. utilizing mkfs.ext4 with custom options suited for our flash	12:28
Estel_	and few other improvements that, sadly or not, require kp	12:28
*** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo		12:28
kerio	i think that the kernel used by rescueos supports ext4	12:28
kerio	not sure, though	12:29
Estel_	BTW, if someone use automagic to migrate to ext4, i want him to have backupmenu backups :P	12:29
kerio	and i'm not sure that the kp modules will fit in the initrd	12:29
Estel_	but, one need to have kp at normal runtime, why migrating to ext4 otherwise	12:29
Estel_	have you seen anyone running hildon day to day on rescueos kernel? :P	12:29
kerio	Estel_: because bootmenu is a piece of crap	12:30
Estel_	my whole idea is about nullifing need to use external PC...	12:30
Estel_	or custom mounts	12:30
kerio	indeed	12:30
Estel_	or this whole magic...	12:30
kerio	that's why i have rescueos in my uboot bootmenu :)	12:30
kerio	it's surprisingly useful	12:31
Estel_	lately I was migrating my device to another motherboard, and Exploiting backupmenu for that (vanilla device -> my custom partition layout and ext4 etc) was very conveinent way	12:31
*** futpib has quit IRC		12:31
Estel_	BTW, I even repartitioned new device via old device and hostmode	12:31
*** futpib has joined #maemo		12:31
kerio	yeah, it's pretty neat	12:31
Estel_	and easy debian and gparted	12:32
Estel_	anyway	12:32
kerio	i deleted the swap partition on emmc and just repartitioned to make more room for optfs	12:32
kerio	and then just restored	12:32
Estel_	whole concept is that user install ext4-migrant	12:32
Estel_	hehe, I did whole new partition table	12:32
*** f3bruary_awayyyy is now known as f3bruary		12:32
Estel_	...and ext4-migrant depends on backupmenu fork and feature of kernel-power that prvides ext4	12:33
Estel_	ext4-migrant updates mount-opts, genfstab.awk, and whatsnot, to utilize ext4 and special capabilities that our mkfs will do later...	12:34
kerio	Estel_: why do you still use the fstab generation?	12:34
Estel_	then, it (ext4-migrant) instruct user to reboot device with keyboard slided out	12:34
Estel_	because device doesn't boot without it? :P	12:34
kerio	works fine for me	12:34
kerio	i just put the fstab generation between "if false; then"/"fi"	12:34
Estel_	hm, if I leave genfstab with ext3 hardcoded there, my device wont boot	12:34
kerio	so change it and then reboot	12:35
Estel_	well, no idea what it could break in long run	12:35
kerio	and you also need to change the "home was mounted as readwrite" verification, i know	12:35
Estel_	...and then cssu update comes and overwrite my changes	12:35
kerio	but i reckon there should be a more agnostic way	12:35
Estel_	then, I spend 4564565 hours determining what got changed and where	12:35
Estel_	and redo my old changes, that I barely remember at this time	12:36
kerio	Estel_: it's your fault if you modify system files without diverting them	12:36
kerio	but apt-get will prompt when it's about to modify one of your modified configuration files	12:36
*** sq-one has joined #maemo		12:36
Estel_	so I won't modify them and won't have a problem - i don't need to get rid of genfstab for anything	12:36
Estel_	it's art for the sake of art	12:36
Estel_	...that's why I don't modify them if it doesn't gain me anything, and just update genfstab with ext4 instead of ext3 :P	12:37
Estel_	easier to remember (and code into automagic scripts) than whole magic behind getting rid of fstab generation	12:37
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo		12:37
Estel_	if it would give me any benefits, then, sure, but currently, there are none	12:37
kerio	Estel_: so what happens when cssu changes genfstab.awk?	12:38
Estel_	I change it back - not ideal, but easier than changing bunch of other long scripts in many places	12:38
Estel_	<kerio> i just put the fstab generation between "if false; then"/"fi"	12:38
Estel_	<kerio> and you also need to change the "home was mounted as readwrite" verification, i know	12:38
kerio	you have to do the last thing anyway	12:38
kerio	and the first thing is in the same file	12:39
Estel_	replacing "ext3" with "ext4" sounds easier to remember about ;)	12:39
Estel_	in one short file	12:39
Estel_	well, unless it result in any benefits, one file to edit with one value < two files to edit with many values	12:39
kerio	Estel_: it's the same file	12:40
Estel_	anyway, back to ext4-migrant idea, after it asks user to reboot with keyboard slided out, he have to... no problem if he forget, as he will be in reboot loop then, so he have unlimited number of chances... :P	12:41
kerio	it's literally 10 lines below	12:41
Estel_	kerio, first thing, but second isn't	12:41
kerio	the second will be unneeded	12:41
Estel_	after booting into backupmenu, simply creating backup of optfs and restoring it will do all magic	12:41
Estel_	as mkfs.ext4 with all parameteres tailored to serve our flash best are coded already	12:42
Estel_	after restoring it, user bootsup normally into ext4-home powered device, without messing with desktop or whatsnot	12:42
Estel_	benefits - performance gains due to useless (on flash) barriers enabled, and usage of experimental stripe-stride config	12:43
kerio	Estel_: http://i.imgur.com/qa0oGpG.png	12:43
kerio	it's the same file	12:43
kerio	and cssu will never change /etc/fstab	12:43
kerio	but it will change genfstab.awk	12:43
kerio	and mount-opts	12:44
*** florian has joined #maemo		12:45
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		12:47
kerio	gg no re	12:47
*** tetzco has joined #maemo		12:49
*** Muelli has joined #maemo		12:49
*** Martix_ has joined #maemo		12:52
ccxmo	so I've changed my apt sources to maemo-archive but extras doesn't sync and others report hash mismatches when installing	12:54
kerio	weird	12:54
kerio	~mirrors	12:55
*** sq-one has quit IRC		12:55
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143	12:55
kerio	iirc the skeiron.org mirrors work	12:55
kerio	http://skeiron.org/repo/repository.maemo.org/	12:55
*** techlife has quit IRC		13:02
*** fortytwo has joined #maemo		13:02
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC		13:03
sixwheeledbeast	where's the images and flashers hanging about now?	13:05
DocScrutinizer05	yes, skeiron works, others have hashsum error	13:05
DocScrutinizer05	at least that's the rumor	13:06
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		13:06
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		13:06
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		13:06
kerio	i had errors on skeiron with the fremantle/tools repo	13:06
*** techlife has joined #maemo		13:06
Estel_	well, forget about low battery while bme disabled :P	13:06
kerio	Estel_: you need the whole bme replacement pack	13:07
Estel_	will wait till applet is fixed	13:07
kerio	Estel_: anyway, yours was clearly a ragequit, i'm sorry	13:07
kerio	i win	13:07
Estel_	:P	13:07
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo		13:07
Estel_	better repeat what you've said, as my last message was last I've seen	13:07
kerio	as i was saying, http://i.imgur.com/qa0oGpG.png	13:08
Estel_	and wiki for irclog locations doesnt want to work	13:08
kerio	it's the same file	13:08
kerio	and cssu won't change /etc/fstab	13:08
*** techlife has joined #maemo		13:08
kerio	however, it will change genfstab.awk	13:08
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	13:08
DocScrutinizer05	/topic	13:08
Estel_	true, true, I just wanted to read logs before connecting	13:08
kerio	hold on now, what's preventing me from downloading sygic for free?	13:09
Estel_	fact that modrana is way better?	13:09
*** InvalidHandle has quit IRC		13:09
Estel_	it reminds me to reach MartinK, as google changes something re overlay	13:10
Estel_	and overlay fail to work	13:10
kerio	Estel_: monav has offline everything	13:10
Estel_	yahoo overlay is quite outdated, too	13:10
Estel_	sure, I'm not talking about routing	13:10
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		13:11
Estel_	I mean visible map, I use google satelite view + overlay as overlay, which result in streets transparently mapped on satelite view	13:11
*** VD has joined #maemo		13:11
kerio	pester him to add vector rendering instead	13:11
Estel_	he is working on it	13:11
*** VD is now known as Guest81578		13:11
Estel_	personally, I preffer satelite view, but of course vector map have nice things to offer, too	13:11
ccxmo	now I got gpg expired errors and gzip crashing :S	13:12
kerio	ccxmo: which repo?	13:12
kerio	and really, why does ovi have a store when you can just apt-get install the apps for free? :o	13:13
Estel_	not payware ones, methink?	13:13
kerio	sygic is definetely payware	13:13
Estel_	no idea, never used or want to use ovi store	13:13
kerio	unless it has its own internal method of payment	13:13
Estel_	strange, maybe someone who used ovi at least once could explain	13:14
*** inf has quit IRC		13:16
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: you got CSSU, eh?	13:17
*** tilppis has quit IRC		13:18
ccxmo	kerio: it was because of skeiron missing -testing apparently	13:18
*** inf has joined #maemo		13:18
DocScrutinizer05	yes, we left testing out of skeiron	13:18
DocScrutinizer05	since somebody convinced me it's useless since only a subclass of devel	13:19
ccxmo	got backupmenu installed at last, thanks	13:19
DocScrutinizer05	on hindsight we probably should have kept it	13:19
* ccxmo goes to reboot		13:19
*** ccxmo has quit IRC		13:19
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		13:19
*** luf has joined #maemo		13:20
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo		13:21
*** goldkatze has joined #maemo		13:22
kerio	oh right, the current testing has a fairly big problem	13:26
*** kolp has joined #maemo		13:26
kerio	it needs a package from extras-testing or extras-devel	13:26
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		13:29
*** int_ua has quit IRC		13:30
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		13:30
*** Milhouse_ has joined #maemo		13:40
StyXman	~repos	13:40
StyXman	I got them	13:41
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		13:42
Milhouse_	Hi	13:42
*** _rd has quit IRC		13:42
Milhouse_	Can anybody tell me if the fremantle images will be available on the new server	13:43
*** int_ua has joined #maemo		13:46
DocScrutinizer05	which images?	13:46
Milhouse_	the firmware images for n900 Pr1.3	13:48
*** Muelli has quit IRC		13:48
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: do we have any "official" mirrors for tablets-dev?	13:48
Milhouse_	i hadn't downloaded a backup image before the servers went down	13:49
Milhouse_	:-(	13:49
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo		13:50
kerio	~mirrors	13:50
infobot	well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143	13:50
kerio	no tablets-dev there :(	13:50
thedead1440	Milhouse_: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/ <-- N900 firmwares there	13:50
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: the flasher and fiasco stuff?	13:50
kerio	yep	13:50
DocScrutinizer05	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/ but you have to "figure" the names of files in there, and if you dare to post the full URL anywhere, they will be gone same moment	13:51
*** rcg has joined #maemo		13:52
*** CcxCZ_ has joined #maemo		13:54
Milhouse_	wow, thanks a lot, you're great	13:54
DocScrutinizer05	LICENSE	13:54
DocScrutinizer05	MD5SUMS	13:54
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.003_PR_COMBINED_003_ARM.bin	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.004_PR_COMBINED_004_ARM.bin	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	13:55
*** CcxCZ_ has quit IRC		13:55
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: are those only the fiasco images?	13:55
kerio	i wonder where i can get the os x flasher, at this point	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	yoh	13:55
kerio	also, for fuck's sake, why did nokia just drop that server?	13:56
DocScrutinizer05	NFC, really	13:56
*** NeutrinoPower has joined #maemo		13:56
ShadowJK	is it dropped or just usual weekend fail?	13:56
*** CcxCZ_ has joined #maemo		13:56
DocScrutinizer05	I'd hope the latter	13:56
DocScrutinizer05	a DNS query might tell	13:56
DocScrutinizer05	if the DNs vanished, we're fsckd	13:57
cehteh	mhm .. when will it back to normal? .. i dont need urgend upgrades so i didnt changed any config yet	13:57
ShadowJK	points to akamai	13:57
DocScrutinizer05	and those akamai are still existent?	13:58
ShadowJK	I get two IPs	13:58
DocScrutinizer05	I mean, hard to believe a whole serverfarm goes down by hw defect	13:58
DocScrutinizer05	do they ping	13:58
DocScrutinizer05	?	13:58
ShadowJK	didn't check	13:59
cehteh	it was a small asteroid impact, nothing serious :)	13:59
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	13:59
DocScrutinizer05	was the name of the asteroid "elop"? (SCNR)	13:59
ShadowJK	yep, pings	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	then probably nothing really bad happened yet	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	they messed up, nothing unusual	14:00
*** Darkchaos has joined #maemo		14:01
ShadowJK	questuin is if anyone is around to fix it :)	14:01
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's the "stage.maemo.org" for tablets-dev		14:01
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: TODAY? you're kidding	14:02
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		14:03
Milhouse_	no access to 'fiasco+co'	14:03
Milhouse_	forbidden	14:05
DocScrutinizer05	toldya you need to "figure" the filenames, and DO NOT post the full URL anywhere	14:05
DocScrutinizer05	Milhouse_: look, for your convenience I even disclosed what file I have on my private backup, some lines above	14:06
DocScrutinizer05	now append those filenames, and you're done	14:06
DocScrutinizer05	got it?	14:08
Milhouse_	ok thanks	14:09
*** sirdancealot7 has joined #maemo		14:09
*** Milhouse_ has left #maemo		14:10
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		14:13
*** Milhouse_ has joined #maemo		14:14
Milhouse_	ups, sorry	14:14
Milhouse_	I think I'll wait for a couple if there'll be any official server. Nokia sucks!	14:15
Milhouse_	thank a lot for your support	14:15
Milhouse_	Elop sucks!	14:15
Milhouse_	worst service ever!	14:16
DocScrutinizer05	maemo_flasher-3.5_2.4.5.3_beta.tar.gz	14:20
DocScrutinizer05	I just added to my private archive	14:20
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		14:23
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		14:23
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		14:23
*** Milhouse_ has left #maemo		14:23
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		14:23
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		14:23
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		14:23
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo		14:23
*** Estel^ has joined #maemo		14:24
*** Estel^ has quit IRC		14:24
*** Estel^ has joined #maemo		14:24
CcxCZ_	how do I select gnu coreutils instead of busybox?	14:25
DocScrutinizer05	hardly	14:25
*** Estel^ has quit IRC		14:25
DocScrutinizer05	install them and you get them in bin/gnu/ (which you can add to your path, just before bin/)	14:26
*** Estel_ has quit IRC		14:26
DocScrutinizer05	or invoke with a leading "g"	14:26
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		14:26
DocScrutinizer05	so ls becomes gls	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	find becomes gfind	14:26
*** Estel^ has joined #maemo		14:26
*** NIN102 has joined #maemo		14:26
DocScrutinizer05	those are symlinks from bin/ to bin/gnu/	14:27
DocScrutinizer05	you have to pick your tools, find e.g. is in findutils pkg iirc	14:27
*** Estel^ has quit IRC		14:28
*** Estel^ has joined #maemo		14:28
DocScrutinizer05	maybe even findutils-gnu	14:28
CcxCZ_	kthnx	14:28
DocScrutinizer05	there are other *utils-gnu	14:28
*** arcean has joined #maemo		14:28
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		14:28
*** Estel^ is now known as Estel_		14:28
*** NIN102 is now known as NIN101		14:29
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		14:29
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, do you remeber problem with sudo gainroot?	14:29
DocScrutinizer05	faintly	14:29
Pali	gainroot is part of sudo package	14:29
Estel_	tracker-processes -r nukes tracker database, but who remember command to force it to start rebuilding?	14:29
Pali	and I want to fix it in cssu	14:29
Pali	is calling "su -" enought (instead /bin/sh)?	14:30
Estel_	after cssu update I again find myself with tracker ignoring flac and ogg files (not sure yet if it's really cssu fault)	14:30
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: gainroot is part of sudo??	14:30
*** croppa has quit IRC		14:30
Pali	yes	14:30
DocScrutinizer05	I'd think it's part of rootsh	14:30
Pali	rootsh patching that gainroot	14:30
*** croppa has joined #maemo		14:30
Estel_	M4rtinK, ping	14:31
Pali	but script comes from sudo package	14:31
DocScrutinizer05	:-S	14:31
DocScrutinizer05	nasty shite	14:31
Pali	I can fix both packages	14:31
Pali	but we need working extras	14:31
DocScrutinizer05	obviously	14:31
Pali	I think that calling "sudo su -i" is ok	14:31
kerio	Estel_: tracker-status ought to do it	14:31
kerio	or something that calls tracker	14:31
M4rtinK	Estel_: ?	14:31
Pali	better then "sudo sh"	14:31
Estel_	M4rtinK, I've been testing cause of some modrana problems I was facing lately, and it seems, that google changed something re their satelite and overlay	14:32
Estel_	as a result, it doesnt work in modrana anymore	14:32
kerio	can we obliterate that piece of shit rootsh from extras please	14:32
Estel_	tiles show error with map service - change layout, try again later, etc	14:32
kerio	sudser is also horrendously broken	14:32
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: pretty please triple-check, since if that stuff breaks on vanilla systems, you fscked up epically	14:32
Pali	kerio, are you goint it to fix?	14:32
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, I know	14:33
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		14:33
Estel_	OTOH, with google overlay, it's strange, as it does work for very far view - aka countries - but refuses to work on close look	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	and I'm pretty sure messybox su is fubar	14:33
kerio	Pali: gainroot is to be used as the "official" way to get root	14:33
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, when deb packages will be created, are you going to test if all working?	14:33
kerio	aka, when rdmode is enabled	14:33
Pali	(before pushing to cssu and extras?)	14:33
Estel_	sadlyp with google overlay, I'm not sure WTF, as modrana just stuck on "loading" instead of tile image, not downloaing and map service error	14:33
Estel_	yahoo overlay works ok, though	14:33
Estel_	so I would say it's about google, not modrana staight bug	14:34
kerio	the whole concept of rootsh is broken, because gainroot is broken, and gainroot has to be like it is for histerical raisins	14:34
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: might do, if I find the time	14:34
*** WielkiTost has joined #maemo		14:34
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: my systems are pretty non-vanilla thhough	14:34
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, after merlin1991 create sudo repo on gitorious you can look at patch	14:34
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo		14:35
DocScrutinizer05	looking at patch doesn't help much here, since that's related to messybox broken su	14:35
Estel_	M4rtinK, if I can help by providing some more detailed info, just ask	14:35
DocScrutinizer05	it might look perfect, but fails with messybox	14:35
M4rtinK	Estel_: Google Overlay seems to work for me & Satellite seems broken	14:35
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i'm not entirely sure that messybox su is that wrong	14:35
*** _rd has joined #maemo		14:35
kerio	it's just not suid root, so it can't work	14:35
DocScrutinizer05	it is	14:35
DocScrutinizer05	yes	14:36
kerio	so run it as root	14:36
Estel_	M4rtinK, hm, for me, overlay works only from local storage	14:36
*** arcean has quit IRC		14:36
DocScrutinizer05	and it MUST NOT get suid ever	14:36
kerio	"sudo su" doesn't execute root's .profile but at least it sets the correct envvars	14:36
M4rtinK	Estel_: oh, taht can be it	14:36
Estel_	where I dont have tiles, it's stuck on "loading" instead of downloading	14:36
kerio	"sudo su -l" gives me a login shell	14:36
kerio	much like "sudo -i"	14:36
Pali	kerio, gainroot script script checkig if you have R&D enabled and if yes, then it call /bin/sh	14:36
CcxCZ_	is there something like factory-wipe so I can remove previous user's setup?	14:36
Estel_	yea, but I'm curious why it doesn't act like satelite, i.e. trying to download and failing... satelite does it, overlay seems stuck on loading?	14:36
kerio	Pali: change it to run su -l	14:37
Pali	if you not call gainroot with sudo you will ged R&D is disabled	14:37
Estel_	CcxCZ_, ~reflash	14:37
Pali	what is difference between su - and su -l?	14:37
M4rtinK	Estel_: nope, overly works even for an unknown area	14:37
M4rtinK	*overlay	14:37
kerio	Pali: oh, the same	14:37
CcxCZ_	flashing guide anywhere?	14:37
Estel_	M4rtinK, strange, maybe it's me about overlay then. But I'm surprised, as everything else works	14:37
Estel_	anyway, we can confirm that satelite got broken, at least, yep?	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: which problem are you fixing with this patch?	14:38
M4rtinK	Estel_: they periodically chnage the URLS - there is a numbered component in each of them	14:38
Estel_	yea, I'm aware of that, very irritating	14:38
M4rtinK	Estel_: it is probably to track which service is using which and when it started using it	14:39
Estel_	btw, before next version, is there any file user can edit by hand as pathwork fix?	14:39
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, correct $HOME correct $USER	14:39
M4rtinK	Estel_: so they might be phasing out some of the older URLs	14:39
kerio	is gainroot supposed to give you a login shell, though?	14:39
Estel_	~reflash	14:39
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, reflash is zImage and/or initrd.bin on CF and press C+D+Reset (collie) OR updater.sh, zimage.bin and/or initrd.bin on CF/SD and press OK while rebooting, then option 4, then CD or SF, then HAI (yes), then wait and cross fingers (all other models)	14:39
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, try to run: sudo gainroot and sudo -i and sudo su	14:39
Estel_	wut?	14:39
M4rtinK	Estel_: .modrana/map_config.conf	14:39
Pali	you will see different envs	14:39
Estel_	infobot, that wasnt helpful	14:39
Estel_	M4rtinK, lol	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	I get correct $HOME and $USER with command `root`. Command sudo gainroot is NOT meant to have root envs	14:40
Estel_	haven't expected it's there :) btw, what is best way to determine correct address now?	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	and I absolutely deprecate changing semantics here	14:40
*** teotwaki_ has joined #maemo		14:40
M4rtinK	Estel_: just note that the file will be replaced once a new "official" one is available & the old one should get renamed	14:40
* Estel_ nods		14:40
DocScrutinizer05	you even MUST NOT change semantics of sudo gainroot	14:41
DocScrutinizer05	~2119	14:41
M4rtinK	Estel_: search -> Address online ?	14:41
infobot	The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.	14:41
Estel_	Pali, I agree with DocScrutinizer05 here, unless there is an issue unknown to me, that you're fixing by it	14:41
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: rootsh already changes them	14:41
Estel_	M4rtinK, no, I havent thought about "that" address :P	14:41
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: BS	14:41
Estel_	I mean what to put into config	14:41
Estel_	to make satelite working again	14:41
Estel_	i.e. how to best determine correct new address they're using	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	sudo gainroot == su; root == su -	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	period	14:42
Estel_	sorry, I'm kinda green when it comes to google ever-changing services	14:42
M4rtinK	Estel_: just open google maps, switch to satellite view & check what urls are the tiles using	14:42
kerio	gainroot, ran as root, is supposed to run sh as root if rd-mode is enabled, and it's supposed to be runnable via sudo without being asked a password	14:42
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, no	14:42
Pali	sudo gainroot doing sudo sh	14:42
Estel_	M4rtinK, ah, it's easy as that	14:42
Estel_	OK, thanks	14:42
M4rtinK	Estel_: yep	14:42
Pali	and calling sudo sh is bad idea	14:42
kerio	source: the "sudo" package, as it appears in stock fremantle	14:42
Estel_	I'll play a little more with overlay, and report back if problem persist, with some debug output	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: I done't give a ***** what it executes, i talk about what it does	14:43
M4rtinK	Estel_: there is also another possibility - they might not like the modRana user agent	14:43
M4rtinK	Estel_: thanks !	14:43
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, so then sudo gainroot does not do su	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	yes it does	14:43
Estel_	M4rtinK, user agent, huh?	14:43
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, no	14:44
Estel_	in such case it's also configurable?	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	yes	14:44
Pali	sudo su != sudo sh	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq	14:44
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: "su" will still set $HOME and $USER	14:44
kerio	sudo gainroot won't	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	NO IT DOESNT	14:44
*** xes has joined #maemo		14:44
Pali	sudo will not set envs correcty	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: get your shit sorted	14:44
Pali	su will do it	14:44
M4rtinK	Estel_: hmm, I think not yet	14:44
*** CcxCZ_ has quit IRC		14:45
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: my shit is properly sorted and packed	14:45
*** CcxCZ_ has joined #maemo		14:45
kerio	open any proper unix system, type su and then echo $HOME	14:45
Estel_	M4rtinK, ok, we will worry about it if they block (unless you want to be prepared against that offence to freeedom :P if it's not much work to add it into new version)	14:45
M4rtinK	Estel_: but I think it should be added as an option for enterprising users :)	14:45
Estel_	:)	14:45
M4rtinK	Estel_: yeah, fixing the URLs comes first	14:46
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, then your version of "su" is incorrect	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	damn, my version of su on PC is incorrect	14:46
Pali	call su and then call echo $HOME	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	so are my statements above, but that doesn't change anything regarding NOt TO CHANGE SEMANTICS of sudo gainroot	14:46
Pali	do it on n900, call sudo gainroot and call echo $HOME	14:47
Estel_	why not?	14:47
Pali	so why we should have broken su in our devices??	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	because we always had	14:47
kerio	indeed	14:48
Pali	because nokia done it?	14:48
Estel_	kerio, Pali, quick question. Will fixing it broke many packages or scripts?	14:48
Estel_	if not, lets fix it	14:48
Estel_	and screw what nokia did	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	we have NO version of su on our N900	14:48
Estel_	if it is riskyp then think again	14:48
Pali	Estel_, sudo gainroot is for R&D mode	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	we have sudo gainroot and root	14:48
Pali	I do not know how if any app depends on R&D mode	14:48
kerio	Estel_: any package that relies on rootsh doesn't deserve its space in bits	14:48
Estel_	Pali, sure, I'm just asking if program or scripts relying on our current implementation of root or gainroot will get broken	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	and that has a well known semantics that many packages rely on	14:49
*** arcean__ has joined #maemo		14:49
kerio	Estel_: qtmobilehotspot depends on gainroot in a bad way	14:49
*** aloril has quit IRC		14:49
DocScrutinizer05	you don't want to 2fix" dat shite for shits'n'giggles	14:49
kerio	indeed	14:49
Pali	Estel_, I did not see any app which depends on gainroot	14:49
kerio	Pali: qtmobilehotspot	14:49
DocScrutinizer05	pffff	14:49
kerio	and any package rdepending on rootsh	14:49
Estel_	so until you can get in touch of maintainers of such widely used things as qtmobilehotspot (and others), and ask them to fix...	14:49
Estel_	or fix them yourself	14:49
Pali	kerio, really? and it checking $HOME??	14:49
Estel_	please don't touch it :)	14:49
kerio	Pali: i don't know	14:49
kerio	i'm staying the hell away from it	14:50
Pali	sorry but this is stupid	14:50
Pali	why some application running as root needs HOME to be set to user?	14:50
kerio	Pali: just configure sudo properly	14:50
Estel_	ok, while I agree with You Pali that bad tings should be fixed, not kept due to habit, this is special situation	14:50
DocScrutinizer05	no, messing with such silly "fixes" is stupid	14:50
kerio	Pali: maybe PATH	14:50
kerio	maybe it relies on the current working directory	14:50
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		14:50
kerio	maybe it relies on some kind of freaky job control that fails with a proper login	14:50
Estel_	since always we had it, and many things may get broken if you change it just for the sake	14:50
DocScrutinizer05	ship a new rootsh-pali-finally-correct package, and do in it whatever you want	14:51
kerio	are you willing to inspect every package in extras for any mention of gainroot?	14:51
DocScrutinizer05	DO NOT change semantics of rootsh	14:51
Estel_	so unless we can fix all things that rely on it, by hand, or perform some "compatibility layer" that will allow them to work...	14:51
Estel_	changing this piece of bit is little risky	14:51
Pali	kerio, sudo gainroot changing directory to /root/	14:51
Pali	su chaning it to /root/ too	14:51
kerio	btw, rootsh is a package that violates about every kind of packaging guideline	14:51
Estel_	keri, so go and fix it as soon as repos are online	14:52
Estel_	it's still single most popular package in maemo	14:52
kerio	Estel_: the only fix is to delete it and pretend it never existed	14:52
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: we simply don't care since it ever did and we can't change the past	14:52
Estel_	just take into account that I'm asking seriously.	14:52
Estel_	either we fix it on big scale	14:52
Estel_	or make sad face and accept that fixing it now would cause fubar mess	14:53
DocScrutinizer05	I have to agree with Estel_	14:53
Estel_	I have no idea how to fix it on big scale, if someone have - by some mad in the middle script or whatsnot - lets talk about it	14:53
kerio	hrmpf, i suppose that it could at least avoid the packaging issue	14:53
*** _rd has quit IRC		14:53
Estel_	I'm all for fixing nonsense made by nokia or early maemo adopters, but only if we wont break half or 1/4 of repo content	14:53
DocScrutinizer05	particularly since I don't see a single valid bug ticket	14:54
Estel_	and no matter if we like it or not, rootsh is still more popular than anything else, including cssu ;)	14:54
ShadowJK	can you do "alias su=gainroot" and "alias 'su -'='root'" somewhere? ;-)	14:55
Estel_	well, here we a little disagree, as I would have nothing against fixing it just for sake of future less-mess, but only id it wouldn't hurt (too bad)	14:55
kerio	ShadowJK: different syntax	14:55
* ShadowJK doesn't even see a problem keeping it the way it is		14:55
Estel_	but now it seems to be hurting badly	14:55
DocScrutinizer05	it is future-maximum-mess	14:55
Estel_	so there are 3 of us already :P	14:55
kerio	ShadowJK: you have packages doing stuff like echo 'command' \| root	14:55
ShadowJK	it's not like we have working pam either	14:55
Pali	su != gainroot --> which should be fixed	14:56
Estel_	DocScrutinizer05, right, currently, yes	14:56
kerio	that shit is fucked up, yo	14:56
Estel_	thats why i said "if it wouldn't hurt (too bad)"	14:56
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: says who?	14:56
Estel_	replace should with "could"	14:56
Estel_	it could be fixed and I would say yes, eagerly, if it wouldn't bring risk of fubar'ing half of repo	14:57
ShadowJK	Let's do it the Sun way, create a /usr/gnu/ prefix for gnulike replacements, then you can choose maemo standard or gnu standard at will	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	it definitely WILL fubar stuff	14:57
Estel_	qtmobilehotspot wasn't written by idiot, and if they did it like they did - ok, I agree that they should use other way, but I can only imagine that many others followed same scheme	14:57
kerio	Estel_: fwiw, a package that breaks because you change something in rootsh's gainroot means that it was doing something seriously wrong, and it should be fixed	14:57
kerio	and the developer should be fixed too	14:58
kerio	so we reduce the damage to the genetic pool	14:58
Estel_	kerio, sure, but you should tell them when they released	14:58
Estel_	not a year after they're not contactable	14:58
DocScrutinizer05	and the one breaking rootsh on purpose to force others to fix their stupid progs will get shot	14:58
Estel_	I know rootsh is doing it the wrong way, but, it's special case due to it being legacy of early maemo adopters	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	I promise that	14:59
kerio	meh, at least we should fix rootsh's packaging	14:59
Pali	note that rootsh is 3rd application from extras which provide root binary, so each package which depends on it is in maemo package interface	14:59
Pali	we can look at it and find if something could break	14:59
Estel_	kerio, we may not like it, but it's like trashing half of the city, because socialist's architects did it wrong way	14:59
Estel_	and leaving people homeless, for greater good	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: go ahead	15:00
Pali	http://maemo.org/packages/view/rootsh	15:00
Estel_	in Poland we have many examples of sad architecture, but nuking it all at once isn't good fix	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	when you're done with finding all pkgs using rootsh in *-install or anyewhere in program, maybe even without proper DEPENDS in pks, when you got all fixed and tested and claimed maintainership, than come back here and report	15:01
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		15:01
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: honestly, it's a silly idea	15:01
*** stardiviner has quit IRC		15:02
*** _rd has joined #maemo		15:02
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: ship a better-rootsh pkg, deprecate rootsh pkg, in 2 or 3 years you can start to fade it out. That's the way such stuff gets handled	15:03
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		15:04
DocScrutinizer05	why not ship a proper su-package?	15:05
*** aloril has joined #maemo		15:05
DocScrutinizer05	su is borked just because silly messybox. Ship a proper stand-alone su binary and fine you are	15:06
kerio	how does one apply for maintainership of a package?	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	will conflict with messybox, but so what?	15:07
Estel_	kerio, you get logged in	15:07
Estel_	and from package page, you apply	15:07
Estel_	you can send new version to devel without being maintainer, though	15:07
kerio	one does not "conflict" with messybox	15:07
kerio	replace or divert or change messybox and update both at the same time	15:07
Estel_	Pali, in fact after shipping proper rootsh package you could start fading it away in 6 months :P	15:08
kerio	hm, would it be a stretch for the busybox package to include a proper su binary?	15:08
Estel_	as things are going faster in Maemo	15:08
Estel_	kerio, busybox power is the answer	15:08
kerio	nope	15:08
kerio	busybox-power's su is also broken	15:08
Estel_	but then it would need to get into cssu without idiotic requiments to split it into two packages	15:08
Estel_	but it can get fixed ,)	15:08
kerio	because you'd have to make busybox suid	15:08
Estel_	no, seriously	15:08
kerio	which is a Bad Idea™	15:09
Estel_	Pali's idea is good	15:09
Estel_	but not suddenly	15:09
kerio	no, seriously, su needs to be a separate binary	15:09
Estel_	first, lets fix broken packages, starting with rootsh	15:09
Estel_	M4rtinK, sorry for pestering, but whats difference between:	15:09
Estel_	kh/v=107	15:09
Pali	and question again: why we should install another binary to n900, and have also old bad binary?	15:09
Estel_	and vt/lyrs=s	15:09
Estel_	suffix of address?	15:10
Estel_	I see old value commented out in .map-config	15:10
Pali	why should I have installed both good and bad binary in my n900?	15:10
*** arcean__ is now known as arcean		15:10
Estel_	new calue, if satelite map is open from browser, have vt/lyrs= suffix	15:10
Estel_	but, it should be updated too, or kept kh/v=107?	15:10
Estel_	M4rtinK, ^. Again, sorry for pestering, I just don't have idea what it uses and if mimicing browser view entirely is good idea	15:11
DocScrutinizer05	I for the life of mine don't see the root problem (pun intended), use `root` to get proper root env and perms, use `sudo gainroot` to get root without changing environment	15:11
kerio	Pali: the issue is that /bin/su MUST be suid root	15:11
kerio	to work properly	15:11
kerio	busybox works by having one binary and a bunch of symlinks	15:12
kerio	symlinks can't be made suid root	15:12
kerio	and you MUST NOT make /bin/busybox suid root	15:12
Pali	kerio, I know and this is reason why I want to call /bin/su from gainroot called via sudo	15:12
Pali	this will work because su will be called as root	15:12
Pali	(I tested it)	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	WTF we must change semantics of `sudo gainroot`???	15:12
kerio	Pali: sudo gainroot --use-su	15:12
Estel_	isn't it achievable by not breaking "root" and "gainroot" as used by rootsh?	15:13
Pali	kerio, that working only if you have installed rootsh package	15:13
kerio	which is what is ran by `root`	15:13
kerio	ok then	15:13
kerio	sudo gainroot	15:13
kerio	and then type su -	15:13
Pali	gainroot comes from sudo package from SSU	15:13
kerio	indeed	15:13
Pali	root and patched gainroot comes from extras package rootsh	15:13
kerio	and that one doesn't have --use-su	15:13
DocScrutinizer05	calling su that doesn't do any su is a meaningless execise	15:14
kerio	but if i had to guess, i'd say that that separate option was added because they didn't want to break the existing semantics	15:14
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: su - makes a login shell of some sorts	15:14
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, no, it create proper shell	15:14
kerio	it's probably the same as typing login, or something akin to that	15:14
M4rtinK	Estel_: I mostly just try to discard all components from the URL as long I can get a working link to the tile image	15:15
Estel_	so cut-and-check, until it dies?	15:15
kerio	it should be the same as running login -f root	15:15
Estel_	then revert to shortest working link?	15:15
*** eijk has quit IRC		15:15
M4rtinK	Estel_: hmm, now when I think about it, Google might then think about the URL as less trustworthy :)	15:15
M4rtinK	Estel_: yeah, basically	15:16
Estel_	M4rtinK, holy shit, we need open soource satelite swarm	15:17
Estel_	this google thing is way to messy	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: you ever thought that maybe those who use `sudo gainroot` do not wnat a proper shell?	15:18
M4rtinK	IIRC there are even some licence compatible aerial data sets	15:18
Pali	no, because sudo gainroot shoudl do proper shell	15:18
M4rtinK	but no one is currently hosting them in an usable form	15:18
Pali	also it write "Root shell enabled"	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: says who?	15:18
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, sudo gainroot say it	15:19
M4rtinK	Estel_: see: http://openaerialmap.org/Main_Page	15:19
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, then remove bad message from gainroot	15:19
Pali	it not doing root shell	15:19
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: just because _you_ _think_ it 2should do a proper shell" is no argument to patch mess into mess	15:19
M4rtinK	Estel_: currently offline	15:19
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: no, I want that messy message	15:20
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, look at what sudo gainroot writing and what doing	15:20
Estel_	M4rtinK, I see...	15:20
Pali	it is not root shell what gainroot doing	15:20
Pali	remove that message or fix sudo gainroot to do what it prints	15:20
DocScrutinizer05	I don't give a shit what it's writing, I care what it did so far, and I expect it continues to do exactly that	15:20
Estel_	well, Pali have a point here	15:20
Pali	and I expect that some application will do what writing	15:21
Estel_	I don't see reason why we can't fix that simple message in rootsh, and it's packaging problem at the same time	15:21
DocScrutinizer05	Estel_: then he should remove that message	15:21
* Estel_ nods		15:21
kerio	that message is part of the semantics	15:21
Estel_	while i can live with this idiotic message, if cosmetic is what he want to spend time on, why not. all for the better	15:21
Pali	or instead that message it should write: this is not proper root shell	15:21
Pali	this is bug: application not doing what printing to user	15:22
M4rtinK	Estel_:hmm, changing v=107 to v=124 might be enough	15:22
Estel_	as long as it doesnt break half of repos I'm all for fixes :)	15:22
kerio	how can you be sure that there's no program that, say, expects that line to send commands?	15:22
Estel_	M4rtinK, hm, thanks, I already did vt/lyrs=s, will see what it ends up like	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	BWAHAHAHAAAAHAA "i'm lieing, always"	15:22
M4rtinK	Estel_: but it is quite hard to test if google already autobanned you for downloading to many tiles (happens all the time)	15:22
Estel_	M4rtinK, lol, true	15:23
Pali	and really I do not have any idea how can changing sudo sh --> to sudo su break application	15:23
Pali	sudo su --> sudo sh is possible	15:23
Estel_	if yahoo sat wouldnt be too outdated, I wouldn't gie a rat's shit about google sat view	15:23
Pali	but our direction not	15:23
M4rtinK	Estel_: an interesting experiemtn might be to leve also some of the other options in the url, just to see it makes it more trustworthy :)	15:23
Estel_	or if we would have open aerial map ;)	15:23
Estel_	why not, I can testdrive it	15:23
M4rtinK	Estel_: yeah, Google is unfortunately the only globally usable	15:23
Pali	I can see couple of reason why some applications could be broken with current situation	15:24
M4rtinK	Estel_: virtual earth & yahoo are mostly unusable outside outside from the most major areas	15:24
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: don't start talking silly! You said your patch is meant to change $HOME now, while formerly `sudo gainroot` doesn't. That sure as hell will break things	15:24
Estel_	Pali, maybe cssu-devel is good place to test it?	15:24
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		15:24
Estel_	cssu-devel users could then check if, for example, qtmobilehotspot get hit or not	15:24
Pali	if you call sudo gainroot for gettin "root shell" and then you will call some application which needs to be started as root and that application check "$USER" it will fail	15:25
Estel_	M4rtinK, yea	15:25
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		15:25
kerio	Pali: $USER is not to be relied upon	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: that's exactly what it's meant to be	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	and you MUST NOT change that	15:25
CcxCZ_	can I use debian repos to install software missing from the maemo ones?	15:26
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, without my patch some application started from sudo gainroot will not work	15:26
DocScrutinizer05	so what?	15:26
Estel_	CcxCZ_, sure, but most of it wont work ;)	15:26
DocScrutinizer05	it never did	15:26
Pali	in root shell you should have correct $HOME and $USER and if not message "root shell" should not be shown to user	15:27
DocScrutinizer05	but with your patch an app that formerly did a wget to current directory will now wget to root's $home	15:27
Pali	and gainroot priting message that this is root shell - which is not truth	15:27
Estel_	M4rtinK, strange, now my modrana stopped working alltogether	15:27
Estel_	i.e. it loads	15:27
Estel_	but it doesn't see any layers, at all	15:27
Estel_	as available	15:27
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, sudo gainroot chaning PWD to /root	15:27
Estel_	only "empty layer"	15:28
Pali	su doing it too	15:28
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: again, and last time, if that message bugs you so much, remove it!	15:28
Estel_	config file looks ok... well, maybe I deleted some " unnecessary	15:28
Estel_	yea, silly me, it was just typo	15:28
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, you did not show me any possible situation when some application could be broken after change	15:29
Estel_	sorry, I'm quite new to mess with modrana internals	15:29
Pali	and I see couple of situation when root applications will not work in shell spawned by gainroot	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ id	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users)	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ echo $HOME	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ pwd	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ sudo gainroot	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	Password:	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	Root shell enabled	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso31+0cssu0) built-in shell (ash)	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user # echo $HOME	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user # pwd	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	/home/user	15:31
kerio	dat paste	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	since I'm fed up with it	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-01-26 14:27:57] <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, sudo gainroot chaning PWD to /root	15:32
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: NO it's NOT	15:32
DocScrutinizer05	and you'll BREAK THINGS if you change that	15:32
Estel_	M4rtinK, I can confirm, that google overlay sa	15:33
Estel_	started working for me only after changing it	15:33
Estel_	from "mt1" to "mts1"	15:33
Estel_	in map_config file	15:33
Estel_	mts1.google.com seems to be required one, currently. No idea how it could work for you with old address	15:34
M4rtinK	Estel_: ok, noted :)	15:34
M4rtinK	Estel_: maybe also try some geographically distinct areas ?	15:35
Estel_	tried that	15:35
Estel_	I'm sure i was never in africa from modrana	15:35
Estel_	at zoom 16 :P	15:35
M4rtinK	Estel_: hh	15:35
Estel_	M4rtinK, depending on zoom, address change from mts1.google.com, to mts0.google.com (for closer looks)	15:37
Estel_	isnt it problem?	15:37
*** int_ua has quit IRC		15:39
DocScrutinizer05	(([2013-01-26 14:29:55] <Pali> and I see couple of situation when root applications will not work in shell spawned by gainroot)) then don't use sudo gainroot for those apps. It's not meant to get used this way! And evidently nobody did so far, since... it doen't work. So WTF is the bug you're fixing?	15:40
M4rtinK	Estel_: mts0 & mts1 are IIRC are just mirrors, that enable the javascript in the web map to download multiple times at once	15:40
Estel_	ah, i though its related to new "angled view" at close zoom	15:41
Pali	sudo gainroot is only way how to get root without any 3rd application	15:41
Estel_	i.e. fact, that, for web page, it starts showing photos took from angle, not high above, for close zooms	15:41
Pali	and it not spawn proper root shell, so some root applications will not work here	15:41
Estel_	interesingly, some other programs still show "straight-down" view for close zooms	15:41
M4rtinK	Estel_: "Generally several subdomains (server names) are provided to get around browser limitations on the number of simultaneous HTTP connections to each host. Browser-based applications can thus request multiple tiles from multiple subdomains faster than from one subdomain."	15:42
Estel_	hm, can modrana exploit it too?	15:42
M4rtinK	Estel_: from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slippy_map_tilenames#Tile_servers	15:42
Estel_	i.e. use mirrors, to go around risk of autoban?	15:42
Estel_	instead of pulling dozens from one mirror, pull some from mts0, 1, 2, 3...	15:43
M4rtinK	modRana already downloads multiple tiles at once	15:43
M4rtinK	the question is if it makes a difference	15:43
Estel_	but from same mirror? or not	15:43
Estel_	well, if my browser doesnt get banned so quickly using mirrors...	15:43
M4rtinK	if the mirrors share accounting	15:43
Estel_	even if I hover like mad	15:43
M4rtinK	yeah, good point	15:44
Estel_	but maybe google uses it to pinpoint "illegal" apps?	15:44
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		15:44
M4rtinK	might be also sue to user-agent though	15:44
Estel_	if something download many tiles at once from one mirror, it's suspicious	15:44
Estel_	and most likely, app	15:44
Estel_	well, we can use chrome user agent :P	15:44
Estel_	I always wondered ahy I can, very quickly, hover above whole city in close zoom and download hundreds of tiles in browser...	15:45
Estel_	but in modrana, I get banned quickly	15:45
Estel_	maybe user customizable user agents + using mirrors is a way to go to avoid limits	15:45
Estel_	after all, everyone is free to user any useragent she(e want, it isn't patented (yet)	15:45
Estel_	and mirrors are publicly available. +, it's user responsibility, is he uses google sat map outside eula... BTW, in Pland, google eula for maps isn't ever legal	15:46
M4rtinK	Estel_: most EULAs aren't :)	15:46
teotwaki_	Yes, because going around the technological limitations that people set up so you wouldn't abuse them is so "ethical".	15:46
Estel_	:)	15:47
Estel_	my ethic doesn hurt when i use google map from fast modrana, instead from clunky user interface	15:47
Estel_	of browser	15:47
M4rtinK	you can experiment with the user-agent here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/blob/master/modules/mod_mapTiles.py#L194	15:47
Estel_	thanks :)	15:47
teotwaki_	This is pretty much like the idiots who thought they could use our API for free. We had setup a reasonable limit of x API calls per day, per IP.	15:48
Estel_	teotwaki_, it isn't about abusing, it's about forcing to use browser over app, to get same results	15:48
Estel_	well, it's not api, that we're talking about	15:48
teotwaki_	Some company tried to use our API for profit, but didn't want to pay, so they started setting up multiple servers they could use our API from.	15:48
Estel_	anyway, call me evil, but I won't shed a single tear about google being not able to force browser usage on me	15:49
Estel_	for getting same results	15:49
teotwaki_	(to get around the API calls limit)	15:49
Estel_	well, you could write more security... or go FOSS way :)	15:49
M4rtinK	Estel_: or better here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/blob/master/core/configs.py#L220	15:49
Estel_	ok...	15:50
teotwaki_	They were very quick to subscribe and use a single IP when I added a data randomizer for all of their requests :)	15:50
*** louisdk has joined #maemo		15:50
Estel_	sounds fun. Problem with google is that they don't give a shit about ammount of data used	15:50
M4rtinK	modRana is not a commercial application & users are free to use it how they like :)	15:51
Estel_	they just want to enforce to know everything about user using it	15:51
teotwaki_	Estel_: we are FOSS. Our whole API software is dual licensed GPL, with the libraries under LGPL :)	15:51
Estel_	M4rtinK, excuse my noobines, but this is drop-in replacement for python file, or I have to do something else before using it?	15:51
Estel_	teotwaki_, then why on earth they tried to abuse?	15:52
M4rtinK	BTW, that is why OSM based routing is so important	15:52
Estel_	yea	15:52
M4rtinK	as Google can log your routing requests	15:52
kerio	Estel_: because they're idiots	15:52
teotwaki_	Estel_: because the API is FOSS, our infrastructure that gives you access to placing millions of phone calls isn't :)	15:52
M4rtinK	still it is much harder from modRana than from a browser	15:52
Estel_	teotwaki_, well, but api allowed to do some free requests to everyone, yep?	15:53
M4rtinK	Estel_: just edit /opt/modrana/core/config.py :)	15:53
teotwaki_	Everyone with an account, yes.	15:53
Estel_	M4rtinK, thats what I thought, just wanted to be sure	15:53
Estel_	teotwaki_, then hunting abusers is part of fun	15:54
teotwaki_	Oh it definitely is	15:54
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		15:54
teotwaki_	We operate call centre solutions, recently, I've been tasked to down call centre agents who place personal calls on their work time :)	15:54
Estel_	but i hope you see distinct difference between modrana accessing data exactly the same way any browser is able too (you can even call modrana browser with strange features, like voice nav) and your case	15:55
teotwaki_	Estel_: I do, no worries :)	15:55
xes	it's me ...or talk.m.o is progressively slowing down?	15:55
teotwaki_	track down**	15:55
*** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC		15:55
teotwaki_	I don't "down" agents, whatever that may mean.	15:55
Estel_	xes, everything related to maemo infra is, one way or another	15:55
Estel_	teotwaki_, also teach them than "reboot your system" isn't always best first part of conversation with client	15:56
Estel_	or reboot your router	15:57
teotwaki_	I don't talk to the agents :)	15:57
Estel_	just joking ;)	15:57
M4rtinK	I really hope the Fremantle OBS Pali usually mentions gets resurrected	15:57
Estel_	its dead?	15:57
M4rtinK	it works really nice for Harmattan & Mer/Nemo	15:57
Estel_	I thought it is what maemo repos was heading into	15:57
M4rtinK	I don't meen the MeeGo COBS	15:58
teotwaki_	but yeah, I found one guy, working for the (french) government, who spent 300 hours, over the last year, calling friends in the US.	15:58
M4rtinK	yeah, there was some progress in the summer	15:58
M4rtinK	but then everything switched to emergency mode due to the Nokia announcements	15:58
M4rtinK	I even logged into it once	15:58
Estel_	well, last time when i checked on late autumn, it was still goal	15:59
Estel_	well, I've heard that TMO got funny new administrator - lets hope that he will be able to deal with technical issue	16:00
M4rtinK	I hope it still is once everything is stabilized	16:00
Estel_	issues*	16:00
Estel_	hopefully to the point that he will be too sick with TMO to even think about being trigger-happy again	16:00
Estel_	well, whatever	16:00
Estel_	same here, M4rtinK	16:01
Estel_	autobuilder is enough pita as it is	16:01
M4rtinK	OBS makes collaboration easy	16:04
DocScrutinizer05	xes: tmo also slowing down now? LOL, I guess the guys at Nemein will have a very tough weekend	16:04
M4rtinK	also for Mer, you can pull packages directly from the SUSE OBS instance (wont directly work for Fremantle though)	16:05
xes	DocScrutinizer05: yes... slowing down is not a good. You know that usually is just the beginning	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, >>Cpu(s): 5.0%us, 0.8%sy, 0.0%ni, 93.8%id, 0.3%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.2%st <<	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	and tmo is _not_ behind that friggin firewall/NAT	16:06
*** int_ua has joined #maemo		16:07
DocScrutinizer05	it's indeed a tad slow, but that might be some backup via network, or sth	16:07
jacekowski	wha sort of FW is it?	16:08
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo		16:13
Pali	M4rtinK, fremantle cobs is really dead	16:13
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		16:13
kerio	jacekowski: xen-grid vm	16:14
*** nox- has joined #maemo		16:15
*** Smily has quit IRC		16:17
*** nox- has quit IRC		16:17
*** nox- has joined #maemo		16:17
*** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo		16:20
*** int_ua has quit IRC		16:28
*** Flyser has joined #maemo		16:31
*** Flyser has joined #maemo		16:31
*** brkn has joined #maemo		16:31
*** jonwil has joined #maemo		16:34
*** shanttu has joined #maemo		16:35
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: Endian	16:39
kerio	hm, did we forget to backup the source of the packages in the repos?	16:40
DocScrutinizer05	I hope not	16:40
kerio	~mirror	16:40
infobot	i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143	16:40
kerio	oh, it's in source/	16:40
*** stardiviner has quit IRC		16:40
kerio	phew	16:40
* DocScrutinizer05 starts to feel too sick with post sin this channel to NOT feel trigger-happy		16:43
DocScrutinizer05	posts in*	16:43
kerio	?	16:43
Estel_	why so, rootsh discussion was better than popcorn	16:43
merlin1991	kerio: i'm not entirely insane, i did save the sources aswell :D	16:43
kerio	i remember RMO having the sources in the same place as the .debs but maybe i'm confused	16:44
merlin1991	kerio: rmo always had the sources in sources/ cssu-thumb has them in place	16:45
kerio	no, i was thinking of the debian repos	16:45
Estel_	M4rtinK, I've nuked overlay database which seems like fixed problem I was mentioning earlier. Also, changed useragent to chrome, will report after a week or so if it make me less bannable by google :P,	16:47
Estel_	can't test right now as I'm already temp banned due to tiles	16:47
Estel_	thanks for your help and interesting talk!	16:47
CcxCZ_	is there key combo mapped to esc on N900?	16:48
M4rtinK	Estel_: thanks - yeah, semi-longterm testing ins the only way to work :)	16:49
*** Chiku\|dc has quit IRC		16:49
jonwil	is the wiki still down?	16:50
jonwil	yep, definatly looks that way to me :)	16:52
thedead1440	jonwil: same here	16:53
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC		16:54
*** guampa has joined #maemo		16:54
merlin1991	CcxCZ_: nope	16:57
CcxCZ_	how do I play angband then? D:	16:59
*** wirr has joined #maemo		16:59
CcxCZ_	I've found xmodmap, but can't find xev	17:00
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		17:00
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		17:03
*** sq-one has joined #maemo		17:03
*** trx has quit IRC		17:08
*** trx has joined #maemo		17:08
*** ruskie has quit IRC		17:08
teotwaki_	anyway, off to shopping, and cooking for 8. What a waste of fucking time.	17:10
*** Martix_ has quit IRC		17:15
*** Martix has joined #maemo		17:16
*** Martix has quit IRC		17:17
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		17:20
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		17:21
*** crope has quit IRC		17:23
*** teotwaki_ has quit IRC		17:27
*** eMHa has quit IRC		17:28
*** brkn has left #maemo		17:29
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		17:30
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		17:30
*** Martix has joined #maemo		17:31
*** rZr is now known as RzR		17:32
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		17:34
*** eMHa has quit IRC		17:36
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		17:36
*** eMHa has quit IRC		17:43
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		17:43
*** Sosica has joined #maemo		17:44
*** eMHa has quit IRC		17:45
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		17:45
*** crope has joined #maemo		17:47
*** Flyser has quit IRC		17:48
*** pcfe` is now known as pcfe		17:52
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		17:54
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo		17:54
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		17:54
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC		17:55
*** wirr has quit IRC		17:56
*** sLumPia has joined #maemo		17:57
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		18:00
*** xes_ has joined #maemo		18:03
*** Darkchaos has quit IRC		18:03
*** Paul1210 has joined #maemo		18:04
*** aloril has quit IRC		18:05
Paul1210	does phone functions work with an alt os on n900 (like debian / ubuntu with ofono) ?	18:06
kerio	afaik no	18:06
*** xes has quit IRC		18:07
Paul1210	kerio: thanks	18:07
CcxCZ_	Paul1210: there are some issues with audio quality making it unuseable afaik	18:13
*** q_plaz has quit IRC		18:15
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo		18:18
*** aloril has joined #maemo		18:18
*** arcean has quit IRC		18:19
*** sLumPia has quit IRC		18:21
*** e-yes has quit IRC		18:30
*** Aoyagi has joined #maemo		18:33
*** NeutrinoPower has quit IRC		18:35
*** Sosica has left #maemo		18:39
*** sq-one has quit IRC		18:44
jonwil	I suspect the audio quality issues are because the alternative operating systems do not have the relevant Nokia-special PulseAudio algorithms that the stock OS has	18:53
*** rcg has quit IRC		18:55
*** Paul1210 has quit IRC		18:58
*** Sosica has joined #maemo		19:06
*** Sosica has left #maemo		19:06
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		19:08
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		19:11
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		19:11
*** CcxCZ_ has quit IRC		19:13
*** brzys has quit IRC		19:16
*** brzys has joined #maemo		19:19
*** aloril has quit IRC		19:20
*** greenbarel has joined #maemo		19:29
*** eMHa has quit IRC		19:30
*** aloril has joined #maemo		19:32
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		19:32
*** robink has quit IRC		19:33
greenbarel	is it posible to rum maemo on any of the android tablets	19:33
greenbarel	run*	19:33
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo		19:34
*** robink_ has joined #maemo		19:34
greenbarel	is it posible to run maemo on any of the android tablets?	19:36
*** Aoyagi has quit IRC		19:36
*** robink_ is now known as robink		19:38
*** Aoyagi has joined #maemo		19:40
Sicelo	greenbarel: depends what exactly you mean. Maemo as a whole will not work anywhere else that the NIT it belongs to.	19:42
Sicelo	s/that/than/	19:43
infobot	Sicelo meant: greenbarel: depends what exactly you mean. Maemo as a whole will not work anywhere else than the NIT it belongs to.	19:43
greenbarel	i think someone ported it to htc hd 2 phone	19:45
*** aloril has quit IRC		19:45
*** brzys has quit IRC		19:46
greenbarel	here it is	19:47
greenbarel	http://www.techknots.com/mobiles/htc-hd2-running-maemo/	19:47
*** brzys has joined #maemo		19:47
greenbarel	i realy like maemo i had n900 but battery life is short, and it is shaped like brick	19:48
Sicelo	mine is not shaped that way.	19:49
*** vblazquez has quit IRC		19:52
kgu	~NIT	19:54
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, nit is Nokia Internet Tablet	19:54
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		19:54
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo		19:54
ShadowJK	my spare N900 has weeklong batterylife :P	19:55
* ShadowJK only uses it for calls and alarm clock		19:55
greenbarel	yes NIT but thats long forgoten project, last device was n9	19:56
greenbarel	and it has meego on it	19:56
kgu	isn't it a little inconvenient to have several devices for daily usage?	19:57
greenbarel	n900 with 1.5 cm i think is the thickest phone	19:57
greenbarel	i just have pc and phone	19:58
greenbarel	and i am looking for some tablets and i am interested in buying some if i can install maemo on it	19:58
kgu	was thinking about ShadowJK's usage :)	19:58
greenbarel	xD	19:59
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		19:59
greenbarel	btw have anyone here experience with metasploit and armitage i am having some dificulties with it	20:01
* Sicelo wouldn't be surprised is that HTC+Maemo video is bogus. I haven't viewed it btw		20:02
*** aloril has joined #maemo		20:02
greenbarel	i read it but idk about it, htc hd is capable of running lots of mobile os idk why could't run maemoo	20:03
kerio	the colors are all weird	20:03
kerio	i bet it's vnc	20:03
kerio	"This video is a Dramatization of what it could be like."	20:04
kerio	yep	20:04
greenbarel	0:10	20:06
kerio	do you want to know why it couldn't run maemo?	20:06
kerio	~closed	20:06
infobot	somebody said closed was http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages	20:06
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		20:10
*** NIN102 has joined #maemo		20:10
*** NIN102 has quit IRC		20:10
xes_	..vnc is painting the screen from the upside to downside, the screen locker is something not part of maemo..	20:10
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		20:13
*** nox- has quit IRC		20:19
ShadowJK	kgu, just that the spare device is usually on desk and main device is in pocket, so I usually pick up the spare one when someone calls	20:22
*** loganbr has joined #maemo		20:22
ShadowJK	(all my phones have the same phone number associated)	20:23
kgu	ShadowJK: So all of them ring, when someone calls?	20:26
ShadowJK	yes	20:26
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		20:27
futpib	what is the second one?	20:28
* ShadowJK has 2 N900		20:28
*** jonwil has quit IRC		20:28
ShadowJK	in use	20:28
ShadowJK	hot spare :s	20:28
futpib	you mad	20:29
*** Muelli has joined #maemo		20:29
kerio	no, u mad	20:30
*** rcg has joined #maemo		20:31
futpib	i mean in good way	20:33
*** muellisoft has joined #maemo		20:33
*** Muelli has quit IRC		20:35
*** sq-one has joined #maemo		20:36
*** nox- has joined #maemo		20:38
ShadowJK	4 N900, 1 N800, 1 N810, 1 Nokia E75, 1 Nokia E70, 1 Asus Transformer tf700	20:42
*** muellisoft is now known as Muelli		20:42
Estel_	8 N900	20:42
Estel_	beat that	20:42
Estel_	although they're mobile in a specific way	20:43
*** loganbr` has joined #maemo		20:43
Estel_	most of them sold when good buyer found	20:43
Estel_	and new ones bought	20:43
Estel_	2 of them are dead, part donors	20:43
Estel_	oh, sorry, 3 of them are dead	20:43
Estel_	(but with good screen module, 2 of them perfect, 1 quite scratched)	20:43
Estel_	one main + one backup	20:44
Estel_	+ 3 rotating, i.e. sold and bought	20:44
kgu	how much is a new screen?	20:44
Estel_	so their number varies	20:44
Estel_	it depends, most of the time you find chinese replacement with varying quality	20:44
Estel_	some really suxx. I keep original ones	20:45
Estel_	also define screen	20:45
Estel_	lcd module?	20:45
Estel_	digitizer?	20:45
*** loganbr has quit IRC		20:45
Estel_	or whole screen module, including slider?	20:45
kgu	the upper scratcy part :)	20:45
Estel_	digitizer	20:45
Estel_	well, you may fin original for quite cheap, but it's quite impossible to find ones without scratches	20:46
Estel_	most of them have one or two big ones	20:46
Estel_	perfectly new are, usually, replacements	20:46
Estel_	some work as well as original, reportedly, and some are worse than digitizers of pda's from pre 2000	20:46
kgu	yeah, mine has areas where the protection has gone	20:47
Estel_	(digitizer, in case someone is not aware, also work as input device for touch)	20:47
Estel_	hm, I always use protecting foils	20:47
Estel_	just replace them if got scratched too much	20:47
kgu	yeah, I know. too late now..	20:48
Estel_	interestingly enough, I replaced mine only once. found el-cheapo brand that makes really durable ones	20:48
Estel_	wanna buy new digitizer for 50 euro? :P	20:48
kgu	dream on ;)	20:49
Sicelo	lol	20:49
Estel_	seriously, I just thought about price that would convince me to spare my original replacements in perfect condition	20:50
Estel_	you never know when you may be in need of using them, so I keep it	20:50
*** goldkatze has quit IRC		20:51
Estel_	well, vi____ pays more, reportedly, as he is buying original parts from Nokia care including freplace, but not allowing them to replace it	20:51
*** greenbarel has left #maemo		20:51
Estel_	preffering to replace it on his own, instead of giving morons at nokia ocymoron care chance to touch and break something	20:51
Estel_	sounds like rip off, but he seems happy	20:52
Estel_	s/ocymoron/oxymoron	20:52
Estel_	anyway	20:52
Estel_	I got problem for maemo sound system gurus	20:53
kerio	Estel_: there's that dude on tmo with like 5 n950s	20:53
kerio	he pwns you pretty hard	20:53
kgu	Can it really be a $7 buy on ebay, what's the scam? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Touch-Screen-Digitizer-for-NOKIA-N900-N-900-Tools-/330745729904	20:53
Estel_	kerio, not likely	20:53
Estel_	as in additiion to N900's i have N950 too :P	20:53
kerio	how many?	20:53
Estel_	one is enough, you don't want them to start reproducing	20:53
Estel_	btw, he have uncle in R&D, or what?	20:54
Estel_	kgu, it may be real, but crappy quality probably	20:54
Estel_	dr_frost_dk bought one of those once	20:54
Estel_	they work, but very, very poorly	20:54
Estel_	BTW, how much is N950 sold nowadays?	20:54
kgu	wonder if you can buy digitizer directly from nokia	20:55
Estel_	I'm buying new house and need to check if selling one device is enough already :P	20:55
Estel_	Nokia could give last breath, at last	20:55
Estel_	it would then be quicker to become cult collector device	20:55
Estel_	last good product of nokia	20:56
Estel_	last good product of first mobile phone company	20:56
Estel_	in 30 years tech collectors will get orgasm just by seeing one	20:56
Estel_	~450 available in world	20:56
Estel_	enough joking	20:57
Estel_	Me got dillema, as said, for audio gurus	20:57
Estel_	while using bluetooth adaptor...	20:57
Estel_	I can put normal headphones into jack too, and radio works	20:57
Estel_	but, fm radio works only on those wired headset or speakers	20:57
Estel_	I wan't it to forward music via bluetooth at the same time. Doable?	20:58
Estel_	via some fancy alsa mixer settings?	20:58
Estel_	or won't work, as when bluetooth is in fm mode, it won't work with bluetooth headset?	20:58
*** vblazquez has quit IRC		20:58
nox-	fm radio needs an antenna which the headphone cable doubles as...	20:58
Estel_	sure	20:59
Estel_	thats why i said bluetooth headset & wired one connected	20:59
Estel_	at the same time	20:59
nox-	ah	20:59
nox-	dunno then	20:59
Estel_	actually, I'll check if it plays radio at all with bluetooth headset paired, via anything...	20:59
Estel_	if yes, it should be 100% doable	20:59
Sicelo	btw, CFM Radio works even without earphones, of course, mostly a hiss	20:59
Estel_	well, we need to spank javispedro	21:00
Estel_	he got finished version, that allow to listen to radio without cpu used	21:00
ShadowJK	Hm, is fmradio connected analogically to sound mixer?	21:00
Estel_	analog passthrough	21:00
Estel_	yea	21:00
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo		21:00
Estel_	but only unreleased version of javispedro's radio uses this feature	21:01
Estel_	other things use digital	21:01
Estel_	digital should be able to send via bluetooth	21:01
Estel_	as it goes through cpu	21:01
ShadowJK	yeah	21:02
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo		21:05
RST38h	Meanwhile: Unemployed Chinese Graduates Say No Thanks To Factory Jobs	21:08
*** teotwaki_ has joined #maemo		21:10
kgu	Will ubuntu on the n900 be able to handle calls and sms?	21:13
Sicelo	not yet	21:14
*** q_plaz has joined #maemo		21:14
Sicelo	sms should actually already work	21:14
kgu	hope that ubuntu giving effort on the smartphone market will have good sideeffect on a working ubuntu on n900 :)	21:16
Sicelo	hmm	21:17
*** Muelli has quit IRC		21:17
*** q_plaz has quit IRC		21:21
*** pablomobile has quit IRC		21:22
*** teotwaki_ has quit IRC		21:22
kerio	vi____: poke	21:23
*** rcg has quit IRC		21:23
*** pablocastellanos has joined #maemo		21:27
*** Muelli has joined #maemo		21:29
*** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC		21:29
DocScrutinizer05	buntkuh on N900? i'm not sure whom I hate more, Canonical or Google. So probably I might rather switch to nitfroid than to buntkuh	21:31
*** pablocastellanos is now known as pablomobile		21:32
cehteh	but wasnt harmattan all Kuh-Tee based? :)	21:36
*** RzR has quit IRC		21:40
*** afz has joined #maemo		21:40
*** khertan has joined #maemo		21:42
*** RzR has joined #maemo		21:44
kerio	btw, sygic is kinda open to download from the mirrors	21:47
kerio	oh, it's open to downloads from the officila mirror too	21:49
ShadowJK	official mirror?	21:49
kerio	er, from the official repo	21:50
kerio	that is, ovi	21:50
ShadowJK	sure	21:50
kerio	it makes little sense, i thought it wasn't freeware	21:51
ShadowJK	Yeah you get unlock code when you buy it, changes it from demo to full	21:51
ShadowJK	iirc	21:51
kerio	oic	21:52
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		21:52
*** Aoyagi has quit IRC		21:52
*** Aoyagi has joined #maemo		21:53
*** Corsac has quit IRC		21:55
*** xes_ has quit IRC		21:56
*** q_plaz has joined #maemo		21:56
*** eijk has joined #maemo		21:57
*** loganbr`` has joined #maemo		22:01
*** tadzik has quit IRC		22:01
*** Corsac has joined #maemo		22:01
ShadowJK	this sandisk mobile ultra card is shit	22:02
ShadowJK	6M seq write	22:03
ShadowJK	class 10 / uhs-i	22:03
cehteh	possibly not configured/recognized correctly	22:03
cehteh	sd is a pain with all its modes and configuration parameters	22:04
*** loganbr` has quit IRC		22:04
Gh0sty	sandisk sucks on usb sticks ... no surprise SD cards are the same :p	22:05
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		22:05
kerio	except that sandisk sds are the only good ones	22:05
Gh0sty	kingstons work ok	22:05
ShadowJK	Well also its cpu owuld be running slower when not in a uhs host	22:05
ShadowJK	kingstons are the worst :-)	22:06
*** infobot has quit IRC		22:06
jacekowski	i've got patriot EP pro in my dslr and so far it's faster than sandisk	22:07
ShadowJK	well any random crap is fast in cameras and similar workloads	22:08
jacekowski	not really	22:09
ShadowJK	I wonder if this card needs a offset	22:09
cehteh	kingston does not produce sd-cards .. they just brand them	22:09
ShadowJK	alignment offset	22:09
jacekowski	i've tested a lot of cards	22:09
kerio	ShadowJK: skip the hyper-optimized space for vfat	22:09
jacekowski	sandisk, lexar, kingston, patriot, samsung	22:09
cehteh	and sandisk has the best controlers, but linux is often a bit flacky, especially with older kernels and new cards	22:10
jacekowski	and few others	22:10
jacekowski	and i could measure a difference	22:10
ShadowJK	with kingston you almost never get kingston.. they're mostly a rebranding shop	22:10
jacekowski	and patriot is the best so far	22:10
*** luf has quit IRC		22:11
cehteh	there are only 3 or 4 producers .. sandisk, samsung, micron .. any else i cant rememnber?	22:11
cehteh	for flash and controlers	22:12
ShadowJK	hm, it seems to be doing pretty well my cardkiller test	22:12
ShadowJK	write block at pos x, write block at pos x+512b	22:13
ShadowJK	repeat	22:13
*** afz has quit IRC		22:13
ShadowJK	4 threads doing that	22:13
ShadowJK	Samsung Essential I tested earlier gave about 100 kbytes/sec	22:13
ShadowJK	looks like about 4M/sec on this sandisk	22:14
ShadowJK	worst I've seen was a Kingston at about 20 kilobytes/sec	22:14
Aoyagi	vhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/25/unlocking_change/ seen?	22:14
cehteh	sandisk is known to perform very well on concurrent/random access	22:15
Aoyagi	Hm... sneaky "v"...	22:15
cehteh	and class ratings dont help you for smartphone like usage patterns ..	22:15
jacekowski	cehteh: intel, toshiba	22:16
jacekowski	cehteh: SMC	22:16
ShadowJK	cehteh; more recent ones aren't nearly as good as 2009 sandisk class 4 :-(	22:16
cehteh	intel produces flash chips .. but iirc they dont sell to/for SD card producers	22:16
ShadowJK	TLC and 6-12 megabyte block sizes nowadays :(	22:16
ShadowJK	it's all about the controller anyway :)	22:17
cehteh	yes i have a old class 4 sandisk in my n900 and it performs very well	22:17
ShadowJK	bunny had decapped a samsung card and it looked like it had a massive arm cpu in it :)	22:17
kerio	i still want a ram-based uSD :c	22:17
ShadowJK	so i was hoping for better perf from the samsungs	22:17
ShadowJK	but they've probably changed them	22:17
ShadowJK	Sandisk has a thing where they can treat part of flash as SLC and the rest as MLC, allegedly some of their cards have slc cache for small random writes	22:19
*** q_plaz has quit IRC		22:21
*** StyXman has quit IRC		22:22
ShadowJK	I finally found a place selling Samsung "Pro" card that freemangordon said was good.. costs like 80euro though :s	22:24
*** CcxCZ_ has joined #maemo		22:25
CcxCZ_	what package should I install to be able to compile stuff?	22:28
kerio	CcxCZ_: on device?	22:28
kerio	nope	22:28
kerio	can't do that in any meaningful way	22:28
*** tadzik has joined #maemo		22:28
kerio	the toolchain is too big	22:28
CcxCZ_	sadface	22:29
ShadowJK	looks like a minimal write size of 64k or 128k..	22:29
chem\|st	tmo down for maintenance back at 9pm	22:30
ShadowJK	kerio; get a microsd card, format it ext3, copy / to it, chroot into microsd card, apt-get install build-essential...	22:30
CcxCZ_	I used to compile dwm and urxvt on my G1...	22:30
kerio	ShadowJK: meh	22:30
ShadowJK	the stuff in sdk and sdk/tools otherwise is installed on / which is just 256M	22:31
kerio	you can also do ~m32g	22:31
kerio	~m32g	22:31
ShadowJK	/home also doesn't have all that much space for all the random -dev crap :-)	22:31
kerio	hrmpf	22:31
kerio	~m32	22:31
kerio	oh	22:31
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: infobot is AWOL	22:31
CcxCZ_	there's one partitioned nand inside and a mmc or sd card and no easy way to plug in other storage, am I correct?	22:36
ShadowJK	onenand 256M, emmc 32g (vfat, 2g ext3 /home, 768M swap), empty MicroSDHC slot	22:38
*** Fottes has joined #maemo		22:40
ShadowJK	also, fstab is a lie, dont try edit it. :-)	22:40
*** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo		22:41
kerio	unless you're a serious person who disabled the fstab generation	22:44
*** Ken-Young has joined #maemo		22:48
* CcxCZ_ wonders if he could run new enough kernel to have btrfs spanning both mmc and sd		22:49
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		22:51
CcxCZ_	kerio: I'm quite serious at trimming nonsense, but I haven't had time to delve that deep in the two days I have this device :-)	22:52
ShadowJK	beware that mmc drivers get loaded pretty late during boot :)	22:53
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo		22:53
CcxCZ_	where I can see details on what gets mounted? I think the best approach for now is shrinking the vfat and putting gentoo chroot on separate partition there	23:00
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		23:02
Sicelo	CcxCZ_: 'mount' should show you what mounts where	23:04
ShadowJK	it's done by a series of scripts in /etc/event.d and rc.d, calling other scripts	23:05
CcxCZ_	just shrinking vfat and extending ext3 is safe?	23:05
Sicelo	yes	23:07
Sicelo	hmm, ext3?	23:07
Sicelo	usually people extender /home, or create new partitions in the free space	23:08
Sicelo	-r	23:08
CcxCZ_	yes, by ext3 I meant /home	23:08
* ShadowJK 'd just use a uSD :D		23:10
CcxCZ_	I'd rather have system on mmc and data on sd, but alas I do lack a suitable sdcard anyway	23:12
*** Martix has quit IRC		23:15
*** Martix has joined #maemo		23:16
*** Fottes has quit IRC		23:18
*** q_plaz has joined #maemo		23:27
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo		23:28
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		23:34
*** wirr has joined #maemo		23:39
*** q_plaz has quit IRC		23:41
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		23:41
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		23:41
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		23:41
kerio	oh, the wiki is back	23:42
kerio	and garage too	23:42
kerio	main site still 503	23:42
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo		23:43
*** eijk has quit IRC		23:46
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC		23:48
*** futpib has quit IRC		23:49
*** arcean has joined #maemo		23:54
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		23:55
*** tanty has joined #maemo		23:55
*** q_plaz has joined #maemo		23:56

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!