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| Estel_ | is it just me, or maemo repos are down for downloading too? | 01:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Estel_ | (haven't found anything about repositories on OP of thread mentioned in #maemo topic, don't have time/will to read through dozens of other, mostly useless, pages of that thread) | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look again, update5-updateupdate | 01:07 |
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| Estel_ | ough | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | thought, that update 6, "big green letters" "mission accomplished" nullifies that | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, since the whol ethread is about *tmo* migration | 01:09 |
| * Estel_ nodas | 01:10 | |
| Estel_ | that why I didn't wanted to read it thoroughly re repos | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the fact that you can *read* "mission accomplished" is the proof in intself | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | and where is thread about repos? ;) | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | or any other place wheree one can get updated about repo status, without need to harras them with pings/update attempts? | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid somebody will start it in 5 seconds | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | so, basically, repos are down, but it doesn't matter, as TMO is working and thats all that counts? :| | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | joking a little ;) | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | OK, will try my update in a week or so. Thanks for info | 01:11 |
| brkn | Estel_: use a tmp mirror | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | brkn, thats something of value to know - where it is located? | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | listen buddy, we moved 95% of maemo to a new home this week, and migration went exceptionally smooth, and now I got weekend and CBA to get pestered by anybody about it | 01:12 |
| brkn | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1315143&postcount=96 | 01:13 |
| brkn | but wait for 15 mins | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | congratulations, I'm impressed. I hope it settles in new home smoothly ( DocScrutinizer05) | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | brkn, thanks a lot | 01:13 |
| brkn | resync is currently running for community + community extras + extras + extras devel | 01:14 |
| brkn | the other ones you can safely use | 01:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 thinks woody's suggested 3 days of downtime wouldn't suffice probably for the intended purpose | 01:16 | |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot, it will do the job | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3 weeks feels more appropriate | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | brkn: please take down l2 ;-d | 01:17 |
| brkn | shall i? | 01:18 |
| brkn | poor Estel_ xD | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, i'll do it | 01:18 |
| Estel_ | take down 12? what does it mean? | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know, *me* is BOFH | 01:18 |
| brkn | ack | 01:18 |
| brkn | get yourself a beer and let me finish | 01:19 |
| brkn | sync is done | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | j7k | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: it means brkn and me negotiated who of us is entitled to take down the server he's maintaining and i pay for, so you might leran something | 01:20 |
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| Estel_ | no freakin idea what you're talking about, but maybe I'm not in mood for your sense of humour today ;) | 01:21 |
| brkn | actually it's good you came along | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since people think they are entitled for premium service, till there's suddenly no service at all anymore | 01:22 |
| brkn | would you mind to test extras and community? | 01:22 |
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| Estel_ | but if you mean what you think I mean, I'm pretty sure, that from both of us, i'm the one with much less problem to have no official maemo reepos for 3 weeks ;) | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | or no at all | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | brkn, extras and community? sure, why not | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | sync is done so, actually, all of them should work now, yep? | 01:23 |
| brkn | ack | 01:23 |
| brkn | or add all fremantle just for fun | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | roger that ;) | 01:24 |
| brkn | and run a update to see whether packages still report mismatch of hashsums | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you finally fixed dat shite? | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got 26.12 repo copy? | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | can it be done via apt, or you want to torment me like namelesa one, and require doing it via ham? ;) | 01:25 |
| brkn | apt | 01:25 |
| brkn | DocScrutinizer05: no, mirrored extras and community from merlin1991 | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the latter | 01:26 |
| brkn | i dropped extras-devel-testing | 01:26 |
| brkn | got us down from 425gb to 344gb | 01:26 |
| brkn | i wonder what those packages where | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dropped wut? | 01:26 |
| brkn | were | 01:26 |
| brkn | merlin said extras-devel-testing is crap | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no such thing | 01:26 |
| brkn | or sth similar to that | 01:26 |
| brkn | sec | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin said extras-testing is redundant | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | extras-devel however shouldn't get dropped | 01:27 |
| brkn | extras-testing i meant | 01:28 |
| brkn | not extras-devel | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dat shite | 01:28 |
| brkn | extras-testing was huuuge | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuke it | 01:28 |
| brkn | i did | 01:28 |
| brkn | besides i have a second complete copy | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 01:29 |
| brkn | you should know by now i am way too paranoid to keep a single copy | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where's our traffic? | 01:29 |
| brkn | where? | 01:29 |
| brkn | oh. | 01:29 |
| brkn | low | 01:29 |
| brkn | just added 100gb to it | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's total now? | 01:29 |
| brkn | like for january? | 01:30 |
| brkn | 1.x tb | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh :-P | 01:30 |
| brkn | 1.0x | 01:30 |
| brkn | as i said..low | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | well, added whole maemo just for sheer fun of [strike]abusing[/srike] testing it | 01:30 |
| brkn | nice | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | update on progress, will report after 2014 when it's finished ;) | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get it how we can be at 1.0TB with a disk that holds way more | 01:31 |
| brkn | ? | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | some errors, submitting | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did we pull that much in Dec? | 01:31 |
| brkn | uhm yes as well | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ki | 01:32 |
| brkn | the rsyn alone was almost 1tb | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 01:32 |
| brkn | rsync | 01:32 |
| brkn | from the other vps | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: - Dec though | 01:32 |
| brkn | ~ 9xx gb | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems we got some headroom for rest of month | 01:32 |
| brkn | sure | 01:33 |
| brkn | let the bits flow | 01:33 |
| brkn | maybe i should announce it on tmo and not bury it in a thread | 01:33 |
| brkn | *fg | 01:33 |
| brkn | Estel_: report? | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | looks like I screwed something, as it suddenfly failed miserably, errors exceeded my terminal history backscroll | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | investigating | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grabcad.com ??? | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>...full time experience with vmware esx...<< gooooood | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (new sysop) | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to start selecting | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?37543ffce5eb2a66#ugDlitSSSsA6jxAym0RxYGluIPvka1rvBxzlx83CvuI= | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | brkn, ^^^ | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | what have I missed? | 01:36 |
| brkn | now that looks nice | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | I think that most important part is repeated: | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | Err http://skeiron.org fremantle/non-free Packages | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | zip2: (stdin) is not a bzip2 file. | 01:38 |
| brkn | all failed to fetch is because there are no bz2, only gz | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sunprocess bzwip2 failed - wasn't that an error due to messybox-powa | 01:38 |
| * Estel_ nods | 01:38 | |
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| Estel_ | shouldn't be. | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | well, as proud user of bash and standard busybox, test it yourself to filter out ;) | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, i'll gonna rm -rf the source | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | it would be quite funy, if it would be first busybox-power bug in few years, which I doubt, anyway... | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | Even more fun to watch would be how quickly iDont fixes it ;) | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | brkn, I'm off for a few minutes - just ask if any further testing needed, will proceed upon returning | 01:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this statement is nonsensical in two (and thus all) ways: a) i've seen that error before, so it wouldn't be first error. and b) I see it again, so obviously it wasn't fixed in a fraction of a day | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and c) each monkey could check `which bzip2` | 01:48 |
| brkn | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87177 | 01:49 |
| brkn | DocScrutinizer05: mayb this is ^ | 01:49 |
| brkn | maybe | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1275195&postcount=3 | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | brkn: don't feed the trolls, that's my job ;-P | 01:52 |
| brkn | mhm | 01:52 |
| brkn | k | 01:52 |
| brkn | back to checking checksums then | 01:52 |
| brkn | DocScrutinizer05: you think there were many changes aka new packages for fremantle since december 26th? | 01:55 |
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| RzR | hi guys | 02:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi rZr | 02:16 |
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| romaxa | freemangordon: | 02:32 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=832390 | 02:32 |
| povbot | Bug 832390: was not found. | 02:32 |
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| WizardNumberNext | is this repo running or not? I can crearly see you have been doing something, but is it up? | 03:00 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: there is no smtp server sending the mails... | 03:27 |
| WizardNumberNext | chemjst and DocScrutinizer05: I just have setup two courier servers in row last week. I can fix that | 03:29 |
| WizardNumberNext | chem|st: ^^ | 03:29 |
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| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: we do not need a mailserver... do we? | 03:32 |
| chem|st | sendmail should be enough | 03:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | I definitely do not deal with sendmail. Not mine caliber. When something is complex, then I deal with it, otherwise I am too lazy to learn configuration. There must a challange | 03:33 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: sendmail or proper smtp... mx record for tmo needs to be handled too as there should be webmaster@talk.maemo.org reachable | 03:34 |
| WizardNumberNext | I made my own samba server, squid3 proxy, double AP, firewall with magling and transparent redirection, DHCP, DNS - thats part of is "running" on server | 03:35 |
| WizardNumberNext | hard to say running as it apears for microseconds and disappears. On single core 0.8GHz I had 96% idle, now on 4 core 0.8GHz running RT kernel I have 97% IDLE | 03:37 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: any maemo.org smtp is suitable... I just need a login or something | 03:38 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I am going to put it on Xen again, but I am bit lazy and preparation takes slightly too much to just sit down and do it on one go - it would take whole day and another | 03:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | chem|st: I kanda like courier - it just runs. I have access to system e-mail without any problem and thats only reason why I have it, but it is proven on other server that my config works both way (in and out) | 03:40 |
| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: quick and dirty would be: you give me credentials for a smtp... | 03:41 |
| WizardNumberNext | it is not any big (at least for my server - 8GiB of RAM (actually 4GiB squid can swallow + whatever else it wants + cache) | 03:41 |
| WizardNumberNext | credentials? for which smtp? | 03:42 |
| chem|st | any... I don't care | 03:42 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I can give config - all you need is to get couries + esmtps + imaps | 03:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | chem|st: do you have IPv6 address? | 03:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | IPv4 doesn't work from time of provider change | 03:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | at least didn't work from box | 03:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | if you do not have IPv6 address, then register at tunnelbroker.net and get tunnel | 03:44 |
| WizardNumberNext | it would actually make everything easier | 03:44 |
| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: not my call, I was told to NOT handle the server | 03:45 |
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| WizardNumberNext | chem|st I do play with servers, but that is what I do for fun at the moment, it is not for money at the moment. When I started i had no idea what I was doing. System and server - that are two different subjects | 03:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | system have its complexity, and server soft have its complexity, but it completely different complexity | 03:49 |
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| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: there is nothing to play on a productive system | 03:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | chem|st: depends - I do check out state of server at least daily | 03:57 |
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| WizardNumberNext | sometimes I have to clean /var/log/ as it comes to moments, when it takes all the remaining space on drive (5GiB only FS) | 03:58 |
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| khm | is this an insane person | 04:05 |
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| chem|st | khm: I cannot tell! | 04:07 |
| WizardNumberNext | no I just like to add functions to my server - stated out as router+firewall+proxy. Today I have router, firewall, proxy, dns, dhcp, nfs, samba, courier (smtpS, imapS), proftpd (SFTP/FTPS), apache and who know what else - cannot remember all at once - I am going to migrate it (AGAIN!) to Xen soon | 04:08 |
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| * WizardNumberNext is comming back after reboot to 3.6.11-rt25 via kexec | 04:11 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I guess we can exploit list.m.o for tmo mail, hm? | 04:12 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: not without credentials^^ | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: vBuletin got a smtp plugin? | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or would you call some cmdline mailer? | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or drop files somewhere? | 04:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what's the API vBuletin expects for sending mails? | 04:17 |
| chem|st | smtp or php-sendmail | 04:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, so we should set up lists.maemo.org as mail relay | 04:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: isn't it better to put MX on its own "host"? | 04:23 |
| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: does not matter where the server is | 04:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | I have it on own "host", it is actually on same host as all others | 04:24 |
| chem|st | if mx for talk is lists... I will be able to receive and send from and to talk | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 04:24 |
| chem|st | WizardNumberNext: are you drunk or stoned or something? | 04:25 |
| WizardNumberNext | just tired and I always try to separate everything | 04:25 |
| WizardNumberNext | whatever, as long as it works... | 04:26 |
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| WizardNumberNext | do you guys want working courier configuration? Or you are going to use something else? | 04:27 |
| chem|st | nope thanks | 04:37 |
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| user_ | anybody where to download deb www.maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-applications_explicit_armel/liblzo2-2/2.03-1maemo3/ | 04:56 |
| shawnjefferson | How is maemo.org migration going? almost all bugs worked out? | 04:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror | 05:28 |
| infobot | mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal mirror | 05:30 |
| infobot | "#maemo mirror" is "http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/" | 05:30 |
| * grummund thinks light text on dark bacground is so much easier to read | 05:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ no, #maemo mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 05:31 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: what are you talking about? | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, #maemo mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 05:31 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 05:31 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Anyone have experience trying to compile sudo and having it make and make install just fine segfault whenever executed with no error messages? | 06:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/fine segfault/fine but then segfault/ | 06:25 |
| infobot | MentalistTraceur meant: Anyone have experience trying to compile sudo and having it make and make install just fine but then segfault whenever executed with no error messages? | 06:25 |
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| MentalistTraceur | All the google results are either unrelated programs segfaulting (since like every other command is preceded with sudo nowadays, so google matches those pages), or segfaults from badly set up /etc/sudoers files, but I haven't modified sudoers at all from the one make install creates. | 06:27 |
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| grummund | Are there any key combos or gestures for Home, PgUp, PgDn? | 06:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | grummund, for the N900 you mean? | 06:35 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Not that I know of, though it's fairly easy to remap hardware keyboard to add them. | 06:35 |
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| grummund | n900 yes. | 06:36 |
| grummund | in particular to send the maemo web browser to top of page. | 06:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh. Yeah, standard Home key (which I havmapped to Fn+Left Arrow) works to do that. | 06:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | Want me to find the wiki page for the remapping keyboard how-to? | 06:38 |
| khm | grummund: shift+space works as pageup in the browser | 06:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | khm: Doesn't seem to do so for me. | 06:39 |
| khm | weird | 06:39 |
| khm | http://tinyurl.com/n900keys | 06:41 |
| khm | it's listed in the official user guide | 06:41 |
| khm | and it works here. | 06:41 |
| khm | grummund: shift+up and shift+down are supposed to act like home and end in the browser | 06:41 |
| khm | but something may have broken these shortcuts apparently | 06:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | Now Shift+Up and Shift+Down work for me. | 06:42 |
| grummund | excellent, thank you :) | 06:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | Granted, only in the browser as far as going to the top and bottom of screen goes (not in text boxes) | 06:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | I presume you no longer need this, then, but to anyone interested: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard | 06:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | In case someone idling in here needed it and didn't already know about it or how to find it easily. | 06:44 |
| grummund | khm: works for me too (in maemo browser) | 06:44 |
| grummund | but only as simultaneous key press | 06:45 |
| khm | correct | 06:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | I honestly have no idea why it wasn't self-evident to Nokia to map PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, to some keys. I get that for the layouts with only two arrow keys they've have had a harder time, but everything else can easily accomodate it on Fn+arrows. | 06:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | Even if you suppose users wouldn't type enough on-device to need them (a flawed supposition at best), they could've then used those standard keys for their expected behavior, instead of adding their own app-specific key combinations. | 06:50 |
| khm | I can't really say I use home or end ever | 06:52 |
| khm | 99% of the time I'm in a terminal and ^a ^e work | 06:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | Meh. Point is, it wouldn't have harmed anyone, because I doubt you ever found yourself needing to hold Fn while pressing arrow keys, where-as my use of the N900 is vastly improved by having those keys, and since I've seen other people use the same mappings, I know I'm not the only one. | 06:55 |
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| MentalistTraceur | As for myself specifically, my typing on the N900 is about evenly split between commandline and not (I like coding in the primitive busybox vi, actually) and other text input. | 06:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | For instance, I have never been on FreeNode's IRC using anything other than an N900 that I can remember. And as you can see, I'm quite verbose, so it greatly helps having those keys. | 06:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Though ideally, I would prefer that almost everything was left to user choice... so my ideal setup would have provided users with a clear GUI to remap the keyboard for themselves to begin with. | 06:58 |
| khm | if I were a project manager and a software engineer told me with a straight face he wanted to include an on-device xkb map editor in the product, I would fire him before he could finish the sentence | 07:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug*. That most likely (but would really depend on circumstance) if I were creating a phone operating system, I probably wouldn't want you as a project manager. | 07:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Granted, I see your point, it's effort on a feature that most people wouldn't use, and which a decent amount would manage to misuse into screwing up their devices. | 07:08 |
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| MentalistTraceur | So I wouldn't give it great priority, nor would I think it should be particularly easy to get to. And I would put a warning pop-up on it so those who don't know what they're doing are encouraged to just back out and leave it alone. And on further thought, I wouldn't mind it being optware, rather than prebundled... In fact that's probably better. But provided to the users in a easy-ish way to get to, I think it should b | 07:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | e. | 07:12 |
| khm | it wouldn't sell phones. | 07:12 |
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| MentalistTraceur | I think little touches like that - the ability to make the system behave how you want it, helps make the difference between a typical phone that you're fine with, but will upgrade from to any other manufacturer without a second thought, and a phone that you remember as one that did what you wanted, how you wanted it. So in the short term? Of course it wouldn't sell anything. But in the long term, assuming the rest of t | 07:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | he OS was actually good and not just a hacker/nerd phone OS, it would provide for long-term loyalty. | 07:17 |
| khm | nope | 07:18 |
| khm | not for any measurable percentage of any market in the world | 07:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | Disagree. It's a long term thing, but if you managed to survive long enough as a company, it would pay off. Modern consumer culture and typical business-think might get away with forgetting that users are more than just mindless buyers of the latest shiny, but it doesn't mean there's nothing there. | 07:22 |
| khm | users are not more than just mindless buyers of the latest shiny. | 07:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | And whether or not it's measurable is unlikely to be conclusively demonstrable at this time, because I don't believe in modern times any company has ever tried it. | 07:23 |
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| MentalistTraceur | They are, though (more than mindless buyers of the latest shiny). Or more accurately, they can be, if treated right. There are many flaws with humans, en-masse and as typical individuals, but I am not so cynical as to forget that all of those people are indeed people, with various feelings and ideas. I cannot count the number of times I have seen frustration from people over the fact that their device couldn't do what | 07:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | they wanted, and a decent amount of the time, it is not necessary that it be so limited, it was only corporate selfish bottom-line pursuing that caused the maker of the thing in question to not bother, either to concieve of the possibility that someone might prefer the option, or to invest the time into adding it. I'll certainly agree that on average, especially in current cultures, users do for the most part mindlessl | 07:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | y buy the latest shinies - but it's not like they're realistically ever given the opportunity to become anything else, because most devices focus on being just that - shinies. And sure, for every little choice you spend the time on enabling, only a handful of users will bo swayed. But if the rest of the system is good, and on top of that user choice is respected and enabled systematically in as many places as possible, | 07:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | it's inevitable that over time people would notice, that something they wanted to do, and couldn't on their other shinies, was not only possible, but relatively easy, on that one shiny. And sure, I could be wrong, and if I ever see sufficient evidence of that, I will change my views, but thus far, that has not been the case. | 07:35 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Alright, I imagine you are bored of this discussion, and I am getting very wordy. | 07:35 |
| khm | it's moot | 07:35 |
| khm | since the market spake | 07:35 |
| khm | and lo, nobody paid | 07:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | The market never spake, because it has never been done properly yet. | 07:36 |
| khm | people say that about tons of things | 07:36 |
| khm | it doesn't matter | 07:36 |
| khm | socialism, kindness, charity, religion | 07:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | No device has thus far enabled user choice without making it require above-average tech-savvy-ness. | 07:36 |
| khm | 'never did it just right' where 'right' has approximated 'my way' | 07:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | (No religion, actually, I am very much a-religious, and don't consider it to be connected to the other three) | 07:37 |
| khm | the flaw there is that desire for choice has tech-savvy as a build-time dependency | 07:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Except it doesn't, and therein is the flaw in your reasoning. | 07:37 |
| khm | you never want a choice if you don't think you know better than the product engineer | 07:37 |
| khm | but I'm not here to convince you | 07:38 |
| khm | because again, it's moot. | 07:38 |
| khm | when you find a company who wants to ship an xkb map editing gui on a telephone, let me know. I'll send you a hundred dollars and make fun of them on twitter. | 07:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* K. If it ever happens, will do. Won't get my hopes up, but that's hardly sound proof in itself. One last note on the tech-savvy bit though: There's plenty of people who want thing X to do thing Y without being of the opinion that they can design the entirety of X better. E.g Windows users not liking the Start Menu going away, without having even minimal tech-savvy. In a sense, yes, they might think they are kno | 07:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | w better than the product engineer about whether there should be a start menu, but that's a conceptual difference, and does not depend on the capacity to program anything, or delve into system internals on the command-line. It just requires the concept of wanting the start menu. | 07:44 |
| khm | ...which you learned about from previous tech experience. | 07:45 |
| khm | got it. | 07:45 |
| khm | totally consistent, nothing circular there. | 07:45 |
| MentalistTraceur | There isn't, because again, that's not tech-experience of the not-needing-GUI form. | 07:46 |
| khm | you're conflating tech experience with command-line usage? | 07:46 |
| khm | eesh, I'm out. | 07:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | Nay, I am using command-line usage as the obvious alternative to a provided GUI. | 07:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | Editing system files and the like are others, but whatever. | 07:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, if this ever interests you as a discussion topic again, by all means, bring it up. Though I suspect it will not, which fine by me as well. | 07:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | And on that note, I will be heading out. Have a good day/evening/whatever-time-it-is. | 07:51 |
| * MentalistTraceur waves. | 07:51 | |
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| Sc0rpius | no repos, no builder :( | 07:53 |
| Sc0rpius | no TMO mail updates | 07:53 |
| khm | relax | 07:53 |
| khm | dns changes can take a long time | 07:53 |
| khm | which means shaking out problems can take even longer | 07:54 |
| khm | it'll get there. | 07:54 |
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| sgosiaco | ARe the repositories down for anyone? | 08:56 |
| sgosiaco | *Are | 08:56 |
| thedead1440 | sgosiaco: see /topic | 08:57 |
| sgosiaco | ahh | 08:57 |
| thedead1440 | ~mirror | 08:57 |
| infobot | methinks mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 08:57 |
| thedead1440 | sgosiaco: ^^^ | 08:57 |
| sgosiaco | thanks | 08:57 |
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| Tek | any idea when the dns server will be up ??? | 13:29 |
| freemangordon | what DNS server? | 13:29 |
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| Tek | The DNS server for the repos | 13:33 |
| Tek | or is it just my n900 | 13:33 |
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| Tek | repo mirrors anywhere, link to ? | 13:50 |
| kerio | ~mirrors | 13:51 |
| infobot | from memory, mirrors is Official Debian archive mirrors get an address of the form ftp://ftp.<country>.debian.org. These are the best advertised and most used sites; the face of Debian for most people. A list is available at http://www.debian.org/mirror/official/ | 13:51 |
| kerio | hrmpf | 13:51 |
| kerio | ~mirror | 13:51 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 13:51 |
| kerio | infobot: #maemo mirrors is <reply>see mirror | 13:51 |
| infobot | okay, kerio | 13:51 |
| kerio | ~mirrors | 13:51 |
| infobot | mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 13:51 |
| Tek | maemo mirrors | 13:52 |
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| Tek | any news ??? | 15:28 |
| kerio | Tek: lance armstrong admitted to doping | 15:29 |
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| XDS2010_ | Can someone help me fix all my repos | 15:39 |
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| XDS2010_ | Dont even know where to begin its all one big mess | 15:42 |
| kerio | zomg!1!1 | 15:43 |
| kerio | repository.maemo.org is down | 15:44 |
| XDS2010_ | >:-| | 15:46 |
| NIN101 | is repository.maemo.org down? | 15:47 |
| NIN101 | (joke :P) | 15:47 |
| kerio | NIN101: i'd say fuck off, but i can't ever be mad at you <3 | 15:49 |
| XDS2010_ | someone needs to update that post | 15:50 |
| XDS2010_ | last update says everything is sorted | 15:50 |
| NIN101 | kerio :-) | 15:50 |
| kerio | XDS2010_: the TMO migration is sorted | 15:51 |
| XDS2010_ | but is the migration complete ? | 15:51 |
| XDS2010_ | and what will become of the .org domain ? | 15:51 |
| kerio | XDS2010_: is every service working at the moment? | 15:52 |
| XDS2010_ | will we need to change repo addresses ? | 15:52 |
| XDS2010_ | i picked a hell of a time to come back to maemo development | 15:52 |
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| XDS2010_ | will we need to change repo addresses ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 15:52 |
| XDS2010_ | HELLO | 15:53 |
| tadzik | calm down, geez | 15:53 |
| XDS2010_ | IS ANYONE HERE !? | 15:53 |
| Aoyagi | No more caffeine for you. | 15:53 |
| tadzik | it's good that you're shouting. Otherwise no one would notice that you're writing messages to a channel with 268 people | 15:53 |
| XDS2010_ | HELLO !? | 15:54 |
| Aoyagi | *cough267cough* | 15:54 |
| Aoyagi | 6 in fact | 15:54 |
| XDS2010_ | is this thing on!? | 15:54 |
| XDS2010_ | :P | 15:54 |
| ShadowJK | XDS2010_; repos down waiting for dns changes by nokia. will return on old normal address | 15:54 |
| XDS2010_ | ShadowJK: ty | 15:54 |
| ShadowJK | this is last I heard | 15:55 |
| XDS2010_ | in other news my sleep cycle is all fubar | 15:56 |
| XDS2010_ | and water bugs have invaded my kitchen | 15:56 |
| kerio | that might be the hallucinogens | 15:59 |
| kerio | drugs are bad, mmkay | 16:00 |
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| Ultima_Fan | hello, what's with the holdup on the repositories? | 16:22 |
| kerio | waiting for dns changes from nokia dnsmaster | 16:24 |
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| thedead1440 | XDS2010_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88707 <-- Read it and implement it on your system | 16:31 |
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| qwazix_ | o/ | 16:47 |
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| kerio | \o | 16:56 |
| thedead1440 | \o/ | 16:57 |
| qwazix_ | sup? | 16:57 |
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| qwazix | ~mirrors | 17:38 |
| infobot | i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 17:38 |
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| qwazix | wtf is Pageant failed to answer challenge? | 18:01 |
| qwazix | trying to ssh into N900 and getting this... | 18:01 |
| khm | could be a bad command line or else a misconfigured server | 18:02 |
| khm | try again with ssh -v | 18:03 |
| qwazix | hmm, from terminal I can get in fine | 18:04 |
| qwazix | it's filezilla that refuses to connect | 18:04 |
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| qwazix | khm, thanks, it's probably key mismatch | 18:05 |
| qwazix | and terminal falls back to password | 18:06 |
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| Ex-Opesa | Hi. Anyone uses Kasvopus on n900 here? | 18:14 |
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| HtheB | qwazix, ping | 18:31 |
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| Estel_ | ShadowJK, ping | 18:35 |
| ShadowJK | pong-ish | 18:35 |
| Estel_ | could I use your expertise about filesystems and flash for a while? | 18:35 |
| Estel_ | I'm trying to tune filesystem to avoid those damn fsck-will-nuke-our-flash-filesystem errors | 18:36 |
| Estel_ | ...at the same time, tuning for max performance in case of our flash storage. EasyDebian partition (not file, obviously)* is my guinea pig | 18:36 |
| kerio | Estel_: tune2fs -i 0 -c 0 | 18:36 |
| kerio | or something | 18:36 |
| Estel_ | now, to the question: | 18:37 |
| kerio | if you're worried about the actual NAND, then don't worry, ubifs doesn't even have a fsck | 18:37 |
| Estel_ | in case of our flash storage, does data=ordered have any sence over data=writeback | 18:37 |
| Estel_ | ? | 18:37 |
| Estel_ | or data=journal | 18:38 |
| Estel_ | AIUI, we don't want fsck to touch filesystem with a long stick, and rely on big journal | 18:38 |
| Estel_ | (my ed partition got just messed up by fsck again, so I though that it's good moment to re-create it, prior to restoring, with correct options, at last, and modify mounting) | 18:39 |
| massoud | hi there, do you guys know what is the best way to install "less" on my n900 ? | 18:39 |
| massoud | the armel deb from debian should work ? | 18:40 |
| kerio | massoud: sudo apt-get install less | 18:40 |
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| massoud | kerio: my sources.list doesnt find less | 18:40 |
| kerio | or busybox-power, but that's a bit weirder | 18:40 |
| kerio | massoud: it's in extras(-something) | 18:41 |
| Estel_ | same question goes for barriers, as we're definitely battery powered - there is chance for crash, but rather not for complete, rapid power loss - we should be safe to do barrier=0 yep? | 18:41 |
| kerio | but the repos are down lately | 18:41 |
| massoud | kerio: yes thats what i figured out :( | 18:41 |
| kerio | massoud: use a mirror, i suppose | 18:41 |
| Estel_ | massoud, fear not, repos are down, but you can use tmo, what else you need? ;) | 18:42 |
| kerio | massoud: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/l/less/less_429-2maemo2_armel.deb | 18:42 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; as for journal options, I'm not sure | 18:43 |
| sq-one | anybody knows when the official software repositories will be available again? | 18:43 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; barriers will severely slow things down I feel. As for performance, I'd investigate the raid stripe options, and tune for 64k/4M | 18:44 |
| sq-one | nevermind, saw the link above... | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; ext4 will perform much better I'm told | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | i tried data=journal recently and it didn't impress | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | also, I think for file integrity, flash is more or less screwed whatever you do | 18:45 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: how do you raid on the n900? :o | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | i didnt say that | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | ext3 has options at mkfs time to give it hints about the underlying raid topology. We dont have raid, but in some ways the flash behaves somewhat similarily | 18:46 |
| massoud | kerio : excellent thanks, i wanted to use git-core on my n900 and less was missing ... now i can git log projects such as openbsc on my n900 | 18:47 |
| kerio | i see | 18:47 |
| kerio | massoud: fwiw, extras-devel-light is a much better option | 18:47 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, so better to keep data=writeback for performance, or data=ordered may force things to be less screwed, a little (by forcing writing to filesystem before journal commit)? | 18:47 |
| massoud | i wish we could retrieve layer2,3 messages of gsm stacks on the n900 | 18:47 |
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| massoud | md2bus gives some dbus messages but not actual layer2,3 messages | 18:48 |
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| Estel_ | ShadowJK, excuse my ignorance, how to setup raid stripes properly on N900? wihout creating real raid? we're talking about ext4 here, of course | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | well nokia used writeback, so dunno :) | 18:49 |
| kerio | i'd say nobarrier data=writeback commit=600, because we're on battery | 18:49 |
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| Estel_ | kerio, isn't ext4 accepting commit as seconds, not miliseconds? | 18:52 |
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| kerio | yep | 18:52 |
| kerio | 10 minutes | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | commit=600 = 10 minutes seems a little out of place | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | in case of crash, being on battery won't save us from losing data from last 10 minutes, no fun | 18:53 |
| kerio | crash of what? | 18:53 |
| kerio | a kernel panic? | 18:53 |
| Estel_ | for example | 18:53 |
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| kerio | what else? | 18:53 |
| kerio | hm, do watchdog reboots go through the kernel? | 18:54 |
| Estel_ | I dont thing changing it from 30 seconds to 10 minutes makes any performance difference, although, I may be wrong | 18:54 |
| Estel_ | from 5 seconds to 30 yes, but more is rather numerelogy, isn't it? | 18:55 |
| Estel_ | as for watchdog, no idea | 18:55 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, have you tried those raid stripes on N900 yourself? | 18:56 |
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| ShadowJK | nope | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | mkfs has options for it | 18:57 |
| * Estel_ nods | 18:57 | |
| Estel_ | searching for approriate options re ext4, now | 18:58 |
| kerio | hm, why are mkfs.foo in /usr/sbin? | 18:58 |
| Estel_ | any comment on our commit seconds discussion? | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | nokia picked commit=1, and also tweaked vm to begin writing back early, so that we dont get massive stalls when huge amount of data would wait in ram and be written out in a burst | 18:58 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: that's more or less irrelevant if you have the swap on usd, right? | 18:59 |
| ShadowJK | no | 18:59 |
| Estel_ | funny enough, to make swap more usable and stable (proven, real-life tested) we need to make it as big burst as possible :P | 19:00 |
| Estel_ | but filesystem is not swap, after all | 19:00 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: won't home and swap being on different devices avoid those stalls? | 19:00 |
| Estel_ | you know what I mean on the above, despite it's being mental shortcut :P | 19:01 |
| ShadowJK | well.. swap on fremantle, before fragmentation sets in, is sequential.. with good cards able to keep 5 AU's open simultaneously, we could in theory write to swap, and *a* file simultaneously without speed penalty | 19:01 |
| ShadowJK | with the best known cards, and no swap, we could do like 3 files without penalty! | 19:01 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 19:02 |
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| ShadowJK | So I gather the aim was to trickle files to storage instead of trying to update 600 files all at once every 10 minutes | 19:02 |
| Estel_ | 64k/4m stripe apply to ext4 as much as ext3? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at openmoko we had a performance optimization team which did weeks and months of tests and tweaking. I guess Nokia most likely did same, alas afaik all that never got public, neither the design goal specs nor any results of tests nor the consequences taken from those. So we're doomed to go thru all that again. So much for FOSS development in huge companies | 19:06 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; yeah it's just a handwave guess of the flash properties | 19:07 |
| ShadowJK | TomTom publishes results of their "repeatedly forcible remove SD card while writing to card", iirc | 19:08 |
| ShadowJK | basically only vfat gave vaguely safe results | 19:08 |
| kerio | :o | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KISS approach | 19:09 |
| kerio | surely ext4 with data=journal is safe by design | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bwahaha | 19:09 |
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| ShadowJK | rofl | 19:09 |
| kerio | hm, maybe not, nobody knows what SDs do | 19:09 |
| Estel_ | surely it isn't ;) | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some of us have a certain idea of a few details of what an SD is doing internally | 19:10 |
| ShadowJK | At best, ext* assumes 4k blocks like recent HDs have.. on flash the blocksize is essentially unknown, but modern day SDs have empirically been determined to have 4M, 6M, 8M, 12M blocksizes.. if block is halfwritten on powerloss, worst case entire block is garbage, best case you get an old version of it, or then a mix :) | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if kswapd also had those ideas, it would benefit swap performance a friggin lot | 19:11 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: can't you specify a certain block size? | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; the fremantle swap is quite close, it's only missing gc | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; no it's a physical/electrical property of the flash | 19:12 |
| kerio | no, i mean, to extfs | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rtfm? | 19:12 |
| ShadowJK | well the choices are 2k or 4k, iirc. | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka man mkfs | 19:13 |
| ShadowJK | this is why I suggested using the raid options, as raids have some similar properties such as too small write triggering read-modify-write | 19:13 |
| Estel_ | no way, even the blast vfat have more choices of block sizes | 19:13 |
| ShadowJK | Well also using a 12M filesystem blocksize would mean storing a 3 byte file would use up 12M of space | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -b block-size | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Specify the size of blocks in bytes. Valid block-size values are 1024, 2048 and 4096 bytes per block. | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FFS | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RTFM | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | took me like 13.5s | 19:15 |
| Estel_ | ,and what? it doesn't help us in any way, + what ShadowJK said. | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-19 18:13:43] <Estel_> no way, even the blast vfat have more choices of block sizes -- ANd WHAT?! | 19:16 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, I'll test that raid stripes empirically | 19:16 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, out of context ;) | 19:16 |
| Estel_ | more = bigger than 4096 bytes | 19:17 |
| Estel_ | <ShadowJK> well the choices are 2k or 4k, iirc. | 19:17 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05> Specify the size of blocks in bytes. Valid block-size values are 1024, 2048 and 4096 bytes per block. | 19:17 |
| Estel_ | = same, except for 1k addition in the latter | 19:17 |
| Estel_ | anyway | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, while your rant been mere bogus | 19:18 |
| Estel_ | I'm not the one ranting about reading fuckin manual ;) back on track, please? | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're the one posting nonsense | 19:19 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, any ideas about modyfing buffer heads options to acompany data=writeback, and it's feasibility? | 19:21 |
| Estel_ | bh is default option, while nobbh sounds more sensible for data=writeback | 19:21 |
| Estel_ | IIUIC | 19:21 |
| Estel_ | quoting, ""nobh" option tries to avoid associating buffer heads, (supported only for "writeback" mode." | 19:23 |
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| Estel_ | last but not least, ShadowJK, there is also mount-time option "stripe=", which seems to be doing same thing. Any comment on differencies between using this and mkfs-time one? that was last question, I promise ;) | 19:25 |
| kerio | nobh is deprecated, afaik | 19:26 |
| Estel_ | hm, for what reasons? it's still in kernel documentation for mount ext4 | 19:27 |
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| kerio | which kernel? | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; buffer heads options? what are those | 19:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | less /etc/mke2fs.conf | 19:32 |
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| Estel_ | ext4 associate (or associated, if it's really depreciated) buffer heads to either cache disk block mapping information, or link pages into transaction (if -bh) or | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | whatever ikt means | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | -nobh means that it tries to avoid associating buffer heads | 19:35 |
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| kerio | no, i think the issue was that you still had buffer heads, even with -nobh | 19:36 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, mayday, but I'm ignorant about proper options for our "raid" in mkfs time, should I use: | 19:38 |
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| Estel_ | stride= | 19:39 |
| Estel_ | or stripe-width | 19:39 |
| Estel_ | ? | 19:39 |
| ShadowJK | both | 19:40 |
| ShadowJK | set -b 4096 to be sure, then stride 16, stripe-width 4M/4k, whatever that works out to | 19:41 |
| Estel_ | ough, how should it look for your example? stride=64 and stripe-width=4096 | 19:41 |
| Estel_ | ough | 19:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if email notifications of edits on wiki are broken too. could some nice soul test it please? | 19:42 | |
| ShadowJK | in units of fs blocksize, so 1 = 4k, 16 = 16*4k = 64k | 19:42 |
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| Estel_ | thanks a lot | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also who the heck are our wiki admins? | 19:42 |
| Estel_ | now it's understood | 19:42 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: were admins nominated? | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I guess somebody instantiated some admins/mods for wiki | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like andre__ is for bugs | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really like to see all this documented somewhere | 19:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if it's only a matter of me looking at the right location to see it, please toss a pointer to that page. Otherwise all info welcome, so I can aggregate it | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | andre__: could you check bugs.maemo.org if everything back to normal from your POV, please. | 19:48 |
| Superpelican | Hello everyone, trying to reflash my N900 (eMMC & Combined, yes I've already read the wiki page), but I keep getting this error: "Error claiming USB Interface: Device or resource busy" | 19:51 |
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| Superpelican | I'm using openSUSE 12.2 64 bit and I already blacklisted cdc_phonet and phonet | 19:53 |
| Superpelican | Also already tried all my USB ports (3) | 19:53 |
| Superpelican | tried starting flasher-3.5 with sudo and with plain su | 19:53 |
| Superpelican | (as root) | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Superpelican: hmm, apart from you picked a really bad moment to do that reflash, due to migration killed repos temporarily, I can't see anything you missed to try | 19:57 |
| qwazix | Superpelican, do you have ia-32libs? | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh 64 bit | 19:58 |
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| ShadowJK | Does the 900 display usb-connected icon.. | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, have to go. | 20:02 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, picked up 100MB journal for 3GB filesystem, it should be enough to tell fsck to fckd out, do ya think? :P | 20:02 |
| Estel_ | at least as much as it is possible | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | I'd pick largest possible journal | 20:04 |
| Estel_ | it's 400 MB | 20:04 |
| Estel_ | doesnt sound like a little waste out of 3GB partition? | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | maybe :) | 20:05 |
| Estel_ | or I'm missing something? | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | if you're experimenting and benchmarking perf, also try nilfs2 :) | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | you might have to compile the utilities for it though :/ | 20:05 |
| Estel_ | yea | 20:06 |
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| Superpelican | qwazix:looks like there is no ia32-libs for opensuse :( | 20:13 |
| Superpelican | qwazix:but I did install 32 bit libusb | 20:13 |
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| qwazix | Hmmm... Never used opensuse but on 64bit ubuntu installing ia32 is needed | 20:14 |
| qwazix | though I'm not sure that is the exact message when missing | 20:14 |
| Superpelican | well I can try flashing with my Xubuntu netbook | 20:16 |
| Superpelican | and of course install ia32 on the netbook | 20:16 |
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| qwazix | Superpelican, you have a amd64 distro on a netbook? | 20:18 |
| qwazix | (I've read that newer atoms support x64 but my lenovo refuses to install x64 distros) | 20:18 |
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| Superpelican | qwazix: yes, 64 bit, Asus Eee PC 1005PE (although I'm not sure if it was that exact type, but at least a 1005 series)with Atom N450, 1 GB | 20:26 |
| Superpelican | in fact I'm installing ia32-libs and all of it's 244 mb dependencies on the netbook | 20:27 |
| qwazix | Superpelican, same processor of my S10-3T, wonder why the different reaction to x64 | 20:28 |
| Superpelican | qwazix:read that it has something to do with the motherboard | 20:28 |
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| Superpelican | qwazix:Manufacturers block x64 via the motherboard on purpose | 20:29 |
| Superpelican | qwazix:Not all, but some | 20:29 |
| qwazix | hate crippleware | 20:29 |
| ShadowJK | The first generation atom also had x64-enabled CPUs :) | 20:29 |
| Superpelican | qwazix, ShadowJK:I believe it does not have anything to do with the CPUs | 20:29 |
| Superpelican | It's the motherboards | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, some genuinely don't have x64 | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | the original netbook-atom didn't, but the desktop version of same cpu had it | 20:30 |
| Superpelican | don't understand why installing ia32-libs automatically pulls in stuff like 32 bit gtk2, vorbis encoder etc. | 20:31 |
| Superpelican | Is it installing a complete 32 bit copy of my system or something? | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 20:31 |
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| Gear | Hi, can someone please tell me the working n900 repositories? | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | tbh I dont thik flasher would even execute if you didnt have libs already | 20:32 |
| Skry | true | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | You do have flasher-3.5, right | 20:32 |
| Skry | iirc I had to run it as root under Arch to make it flash properly | 20:33 |
| Gear | I'm using cssu stable but I'm not sure the repository is in there.. and extras, extras testing... are there any others? | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | extras* isn't working right now | 20:33 |
| Gear | you mean temporarily? | 20:34 |
| Skry | ~mirror | 20:34 |
| infobot | rumour has it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | Gear;yes temporarily | 20:34 |
| Superpelican | Yay, it's flashing my N900 :D | 20:34 |
| Gear | as in the next few hours or longer? | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | days | 20:34 |
| Superpelican | Conclusion:It seems that indeed the lack of ia32-libs etc was causing the flash problem | 20:34 |
| Gear | ok, but what are the repositories that work from now on | 20:35 |
| Gear | since there is no official nokia support anymore | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | repository.maemo.org WILL come back, just not during the weekend | 20:35 |
| Gear | so which ones should I have in my app manager? | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | Hopefully nokia dnsmaster wakes up on monday and performs the requested changes | 20:36 |
| qwazix | Superpelican, yay! | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | Dunno, random people have personal mirrors, but I don't renmember the details for anyone.. maybe search tmo | 20:36 |
| Gear | I can wait, which ones should I have in there from now on? | 20:37 |
| Superpelican | now flashing rootfs/combined :) | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | uhm, same as before? | 20:37 |
| Gear | I have like fremantle ssu apps, ssu mr0, 1.2 ovi, extras, and extras testing | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | sounds fine | 20:38 |
| Gear | those all work? | 20:38 |
| Lava_Croft | Gear: look at topic, first link in it:) | 20:38 |
| Gear | thanks | 20:39 |
| Lava_Croft | anytime:) | 20:39 |
| Gear | wait, I'm not really interested in the mirrors | 20:39 |
| Superpelican | N900 rebooting, now I only have to install CSSU and for the first time KernelPower ;) | 20:40 |
| Lava_Croft | I don't get why the poster assumes every device tries to update once a day | 20:40 |
| Gear | I just mean the ones that permanently work now | 20:40 |
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| Lava_Croft | if you really need to update now, you need a mirror, if you don't, then i guess you can wait until maemo.org repos are back up | 20:40 |
| Gear | I can wait a few days until they work | 20:40 |
| Lava_Croft | Same here:) | 20:40 |
| Gear | can you quickly tell me which repositories work? | 20:40 |
| Lava_Croft | The Nokia ones | 20:41 |
| Lava_Croft | the maemo.org ones don't | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | Superpelican: I am not sure you'll be able to install CSSU right now, repo, you know :) | 20:41 |
| Gear | I mean... like 2013 | 20:41 |
| Gear | do I delete fremantle ssu mr0 and 1.2 ovi ? | 20:41 |
| Lava_Croft | no | 20:41 |
| Gear | oh? | 20:42 |
| Lava_Croft | there is basically no need to delete anything, if im correct | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | you can't delete them, only disable | 20:42 |
| Lava_Croft | just wait until the repos are back up | 20:42 |
| Gear | um I think I deleted them from the hildon app manager | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | think again | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | :) | 20:42 |
| Gear | I need to put the cssu one in fapman | 20:42 |
| Lava_Croft | ~fapman | 20:43 |
| infobot | it has been said that fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | Gear: And DON'T USE FAPMAN FOR SYSTEM UPDATES | 20:43 |
| Gear | yeah true | 20:43 |
| Sc0rpius | that advice is better than the infobot's | 20:43 |
| tadzik | that's not even easy to do, is it | 20:43 |
| Lava_Croft | stick to fapman for 'simple' installing of apps etc | 20:43 |
| Sc0rpius | fapman is great for single apps, but definitely might cause issues for system updates | 20:43 |
| Lava_Croft | not for important stuff | 20:43 |
| Lava_Croft | hah | 20:43 |
| Superpelican | freemangordon:When will the repo's be completely up again? | 20:44 |
| Superpelican | (estimated) | 20:44 |
| freemangordon | NFC, I guess in the upcoming week | 20:44 |
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| Gear | I deleted some from app manager I think | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | you can't delete Nokia repos | 20:45 |
| Gear | I mean disabled | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | delete != disable ;) | 20:45 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: you can, with 1337 haxx ;) | 20:45 |
| Gear | I disabled some | 20:45 |
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| Gear | mozilla multi catalogue works? | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: well, I guess I can rm -rf / too :D | 20:46 |
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| Gear | nokia applications, nokia system software updates, ovi, mozilla multi catalog..... which ones no longer work? | 20:47 |
| merlin1991 | nokia* | 20:47 |
| Sc0rpius | heh | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, do you, by any chances, read maemo-developers mailing list? | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | or used to do, when mailing list worked? | 20:48 |
| Gear | and ovi works? | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | <Gear> can you quickly tell me which repositories work? | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | <Lava_Croft> The Nokia ones | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | <Lava_Croft> the maemo.org ones don't | 20:48 |
| Gear | sorry I'm just trying to sort out hildon app man | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: yeah, I read it when it works :D | 20:48 |
| Gear | as it's the important one | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I vaguely remember a mail from you | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, any use for those qf9700 modules I've submitted there? | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | lemme check | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | yea ;) | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | aah, i remember now | 20:49 |
| Gear | are there any other repositories which I should put in there? | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | sure thing, just wanted to be sure it haven't ended in /dev/null by mistake | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | Gear: what are you trying to do? | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: no idea, if someone buys such a device, maybe :) | 20:50 |
| Gear | just disable the repositories that don't work, and put any useful repositories that do in there | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | Gear: what for? | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I meant chances to include modules in KP | 20:50 |
| Gear | for software | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | I *know* that module work | 20:50 |
| Gear | and I'm using cssu | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: didn't checked, but I see no reason why not | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | thanks :) | 20:51 |
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| freemangordon | though I guess it will take a while. We need that autobuider/repo mess sorted out | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | afaik it just need compiling against kp headers and you know, regular inclusion | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | sure | 20:51 |
| Gear | so ovi doesn't work and nokia* doesn't either | 20:51 |
| Superpelican | Uh oh, the main reason that I reflashed my N900 was that the maemo.org repo's didn't refresh anymore | 20:51 |
| Superpelican | But now I suddenly understand why | 20:51 |
| merlin1991 | Superpelican: hrhr | 20:51 |
| Superpelican | It was the phone... | 20:52 |
| freemangordon | Superpelican: smart ;) | 20:52 |
| Estel_ | I'll be happy if it end up in kernel as of 2013 | 20:52 |
| merlin1991 | Superpelican: use one of the mirrors ;) | 20:52 |
| merlin1991 | ~mirror | 20:52 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 20:52 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: did anyone fix the hash mismatch error? | 20:52 |
| merlin1991 | afaik my mirror has no hash mismatch | 20:52 |
| Gear | I don't need to put a mirror in | 20:52 |
| Superpelican | Oh well I was also planning to install KernelPower some day but I had that special bootloader by Stskeeps installed for booting Nemo Mobile and Cordia | 20:52 |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| merlin1991 | if it has somebody please slap me and I'll fix it | 20:52 |
| Estel_ | considering that autobuilder/cobs/repo mess will probably take half a year, *if* there still be anyone interested after, I'll be glad and thankful to see this module in kp as of 2013 :D | 20:53 |
| freemangordon | ok | 20:53 |
| merlin1991 | Superpelican: you can use the latest u-boot from Pali for that | 20:53 |
| Gear | are there some repositories that I might not know of? | 20:53 |
| Superpelican | Yeah, but read about lot's problems with U-Boot from Pali | 20:53 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: naah, once we have the control, I guess it will be fixed in 1-2 weeks | 20:53 |
| merlin1991 | atm it's fine | 20:53 |
| Pali | it is in extras-devel | 20:53 |
| merlin1991 | there used to be problems | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | Gear; afaik ovi repo works | 20:53 |
| Pali | other old versions of u-boot has problems | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, hope so ;) | 20:54 |
| Gear | I know about extras, testing, and devel (I disable devel) | 20:54 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: come on :) | 20:54 |
| Gear | are there any others that I don't know of? | 20:54 |
| freemangordon | Gear: you may want to disable -testing too | 20:54 |
| Gear | that have some good stuff | 20:54 |
| Gear | why? | 20:54 |
| Gear | I use some software from that | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | Sure, but don;t keep it enabled | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | enable it when you really need to | 20:55 |
| Gear | why not? | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, Pali, btw I've just come across things from 2.6.37 kernel, that could benefit our filesystem performance a much... | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | Gear: read the wiki article what extras-testing and extras-devel are | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | and I'm not sure if it was backported | 20:56 |
| Estel_ | take a look at this quotation, please: | 20:56 |
| Gear | yeah I know what they are, a lot of things are still in testing | 20:56 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: Pali is on 3.8 already :D:D:D | 20:56 |
| Pali | Estel_, we are using 3.8-rc3 | 20:56 |
| Pali | .37 is old | 20:56 |
| Gear | does it really slow the phone down if I have testing enabled? | 20:56 |
| freemangordon | you can bet | 20:56 |
| ShadowJK | i guess estel means backport those things from .37 to pk? | 20:56 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:Your mirror also includes maemo-extra? | 20:57 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: ofc, I am kidding him :) | 20:57 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 20:57 |
| Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?5fce2900ad3e7057#swwkW7ONu40N0TgpMeE4pW9OPJ8ZJQ/ugnCVNeiRvNc= | 20:57 |
| Gear | why does extras testing need to be disabled? | 20:57 |
| Estel_ | it's quote from this interesting and long document: | 20:57 |
| merlin1991 | Superpelican: look at the page ;) it's cssu cssu-testing extras and extras-devel | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | http://monolight.cc/2011/06/barriers-caches-filesystems/ | 20:58 |
| Gear | the apps I use most are actually from testing | 20:58 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:get 404 not found when refresing your repo | 20:58 |
| merlin1991 | Superpelican: use one of the subfolders ;) | 20:58 |
| Pali | Estel_, I understood that this is in upstream kernel | 20:58 |
| Pali | so is included in 3.8 already | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | considering how our flash media like barriers, and that disabling barriers doesnt work anymore, replacing 4thlvl barrier with emopty one as per fixes from 2.6.37 might be very beneficial | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | Pali, yes | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: sounds very dangerous to me | 20:59 |
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| Estel_ | but as ShadowJK said, I mean backporting it to KP | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | "In fact, the responsibility for safe request ordering has been completely moved to filesystems. " | 20:59 |
| Gear | if I disable extras testing will it actually make a lot of difference? | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | this barriers thing is mostly irrelevant for sd | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | sd/emmca/flash | 20:59 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:What's the "community" subfolder? | 21:00 |
| merlin1991 | cssu stable | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | Gear: try it, I have NFC what "a lot of difference" means to you | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | irrelevant as in "disable it as it only kills performance for no benefit", or as in "doesn't matter at all"? | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, ^ | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | as in "does not matter" | 21:00 |
| Gear | kills how much performance? | 21:00 |
| Gear | and my most useful stuff is from testing still... like modrana and pierogi and some others | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | so explicit flushes and FUA requests instead of barriers are not enough as in dangerous? | 21:01 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:I shouldn't add cssu repo manually right? Installing the CSSU installer package will automatically do that, right? | 21:01 |
| merlin1991 | yep, but it adds the other repo | 21:01 |
| merlin1991 | which errm does not exist :D | 21:01 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I don;t know if filesystems in 2.6.28 will work correctly if we apply this patch | 21:01 |
| *** timmy has quit IRC | 21:01 | |
| freemangordon | thus "dangerous" | 21:02 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; kills perf for no benefit I would say | 21:02 |
| Gear | I was hoping someone had made an archery app | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | it is related to ext4 only, because ext3 doesnt have barriers | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | by default | 21:03 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:So I should install the CSSU installer, then delete the maemo.org cssu repo and add the mirror "community" repo manually? | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, so, I don't see how it could affect other filesystems, i.e. default maemo ones | 21:03 |
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| Estel_ | and as ShadowJK said, barriers are PITA for us, hurting performance, without ensuring file integrity, anyway | 21:03 |
| ShadowJK | new barriers are probably just as pointless too | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: without the patch in front of me I can't tell more (and maybe even with the patch in front of me :) ) | 21:04 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 21:04 |
| Estel_ | thats why I've mentioned it as worth looking into | 21:04 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: not to say that first thing we should do is a kernel in cssu | 21:05 |
| Superpelican | merlin1991:adding <yourmirrorurl>/extras results in a "hash sum mismatch" error | 21:05 |
| freemangordon | ;) | 21:05 |
| ShadowJK | Also, I'm not sure if barriers are supported on mmc :) | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | it won't improve integrity of files, but wont hurt them too, gaining performance (in optimistic scenario) | 21:05 |
| freemangordon | s/first/the first/ | 21:05 |
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| ShadowJK | Estel_; currently barriers aren't used, so there'd be no performance gain? | 21:05 |
| Gear_ | so I should disabe extras testing until I need it, are there any repositories I dont' know about that have cool things in them? | 21:06 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: ping | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, in ext4, they're used | 21:07 |
| *** Gear has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| Estel_ | by default | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | and ext4 gains quite a lot re our flash storage and performance | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | without barriers, it could add more | 21:07 |
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| ShadowJK | makes more sense to mount with nobarrier then :) | 21:07 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 21:07 |
| Gear_ | is ext4 windows compatible? | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | doesnt work | 21:07 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: no | 21:08 |
| kerio | Gear_: not even close | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | nobarriers doesnt work without that path afaik | 21:08 |
| Gear_ | poop, I have to transfer pictures to windows computers | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | with it it doesnt work too :P | 21:08 |
| kerio | at best you get a fairly decent read-only mode with external drivers | 21:08 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: relax, you don;t have ext4 on your device | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | but uses other, less performance hurting method | 21:08 |
| Gear_ | I don't? I use power kernel and cssu stable | 21:08 |
| freemangordon | so? | 21:08 |
| Gear_ | so I dunno. | 21:08 |
| freemangordon | so you don't | 21:09 |
| Gear_ | okely dokely | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | kernel-power supports ext4, but ou need to create it manually, if you want to have it | 21:09 |
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| Gear_ | and then I'll lose windows plug and play | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | nope ;) | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | it's different thing | 21:09 |
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| freemangordon | Gear_: we are talking rootfs here (i guess) not your MyDocs partition | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | you're talking about mydocs which is plug and pl.ay container | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | no rootfs too | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | home ;) | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 21:10 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: aah, yes | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | rootfs is ubifs and i wont change it with a long stick | 21:10 |
| * freemangordon is stupid today | 21:10 | |
| Gear_ | is converting difficult? | 21:10 |
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| freemangordon | Gear_: yes | 21:10 |
| Gear_ | I can probably do without it then | 21:11 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK only a couple of people did it | 21:11 |
| Gear_ | how do I clear all the unused crap from my device | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | ext4 has barrier option just like ext3, are you saying passing barrier=0 to ext4 has no effect? | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | to be absolutely honest (and very *not* politically right) it's easy as a piece of cake, but still, only a dozens of people or so use it | 21:12 |
| * freemangordon is tempted to give Gear_ vi's medicine :D | 21:12 | |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, now I'm not sure anymore. I'm sure that -nobh option doesn't work at mkfs time | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | but nobarrier at mount time | 21:12 |
| Gear_ | would I see a performance increase if I did use ext4 wherever you're talking about? | 21:13 |
| kerio | i was thinking of disabling the ubifs compression | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | barrier=0 | 21:13 |
| Estel_ | should work, me think, which would nullify need for "my" patch | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | kerio: do we have so much free space already? | 21:13 |
| kerio | maybe you don't, but i do | 21:13 |
| Estel_ | are you taunting freemangordon ? :P | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | aah, yes, you've removed "nokia hands" video :P | 21:13 |
| Gear_ | I don't have a hell of a lot of free rootfs or optfs space left | 21:13 |
| kerio | and optified /var/lib/dpkg, /var/lib/apt, locale-archives, /usr/lib/gcc | 21:14 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: no, he is just trolling me :) | 21:14 |
| Gear_ | I disabled extras testing but it didn't say "blah blah cleared" | 21:14 |
| freemangordon | kerio: good for you that you've optified /var/lib/apt | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, ext4 benefits performance quite a lot, but unless you correct swap settings, and do other many things like reading a wiki, you won't see any gain due to "crap on yourf device" ;) | 21:14 |
| Gear_ | there is only stuff I use, but I'm not sure how to check for stuff I don't use or things that are left over from... things I'm unaware of | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I rather meant kerio teasing you by "maybe yoiu don't, but I do" | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | nvm | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it seems you did that on my device too :P | 21:15 |
| kerio | :o | 21:15 |
| kerio | really, i remember doing that | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | as my /var/lib/apt is optified too | 21:15 |
| kerio | oh well | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, eat red pill and get to know what is happening on your device. Reading wiki - starting in "beginners" section - helps a lot | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | and i DON'T remember doing that :) | 21:16 |
| kerio | then i didn't optify that | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | http://wiki.maemo.org if it does work | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | it works | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | last time i've checked | 21:16 |
| Gear_ | Estel I'll do that but not straight away, I'm just quickly seeing which repositories work and which don't anymore | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | nice to hear, I'm out of loop what does and doesn't work in this [strike]titanic[/strike] queen mary 2 anymore | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | anymore? | 21:17 |
| Gear_ | and "syncing" fapman and normal app man | 21:17 |
| kerio | i've got 243M used on / | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | kerio: nice | 21:17 |
| Gear_ | I thought nokia has discontinued any support | 21:17 |
| kerio | (uncompressed 243M, i mean) | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | kerio: you're on the edge AIUI | 21:18 |
| kerio | yeah, i'd have to optify a lot more things | 21:18 |
| Gear_ | and the nokia repositories were still enabled | 21:18 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: Nokia support was non-existant for the last... 2 years or so | 21:18 |
| qwazix | freemangordon: pong | 21:18 |
| Gear_ | alright | 21:18 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: what is that "missing symbol"? | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, s/anymore/or doesn't anymore/ | 21:19 |
| kerio | freemangordon: do you reckon microb-engine can be optified? | 21:19 |
| Gear_ | rootfs 73/227mb free opt 1240/2015 mb free | 21:19 |
| qwazix | some garbled things and then hildonPlugin | 21:19 |
| qwazix | not @pc atm | 21:19 |
| Gear_ | is that bad? | 21:19 |
| kerio | Gear_: sudo du -hsx / | 21:19 |
| qwazix | read that might be version mismatch | 21:19 |
| kerio | ubifs compression is *magic*! | 21:20 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: aah,ok. | 21:20 |
| Gear_ | kerio what does that do? | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | magic, as he said | 21:20 |
| qwazix | but I tried running on simulator and got the same thing so probably not | 21:20 |
| kerio | Gear_: actual data on /, without displaying the subdirectories, with the appropriate unit of measure, and without crossing filesystem boundaries | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: well, I can try to help if you post the "garbled symbols" somewhere | 21:21 |
| qwazix | and also marxian has the same problem | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | yeah, saw that | 21:21 |
| Gear_ | I'm using fapman to try to clear out the extras testing stuff left behind | 21:21 |
| Gear_ | and what's so bad about fapman? | 21:22 |
| qwazix | okay I'm at the movies now so I'll post that later. It'something like undefined symbol: Zcx_jdHildonPlugin | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: no hurry | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, honestly, nothing is bad about fapman, just don't use it for cssu updates | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 21:22 |
| Gear_ | I know that much | 21:22 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, thanks. Talk later. | 21:22 |
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| Estel_ | or, do like me, and use it for everything, but be prepared to know how to fix things if something goes wrong without crying for help on cssu developers | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | :nod:^2 | 21:23 |
| Gear_ | that sudo du -hsx / is asking for a password | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | not that something went wrong at all in my years of using it, but it's not supported way of updaing cssu | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | kerio: don;t tell him :P | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: try without sudo | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | password starts with rm -fr, I suppose... Nah, just joking | 21:24 |
| Gear_ | I never use fapman for important stuff | 21:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: permission error, probably | 21:24 |
| freemangordon | kerio: missing rootsh probably | 21:24 |
| Gear_ | can't open anything, permission denied | 21:24 |
| freemangordon | or df is not sudoer | 21:24 |
| Gear_ | sould I go sudo gainroot | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | important varies - for some, cutetube for watching porn is most important stuff on device | 21:25 |
| kerio | Gear_: do you have rootsh installed? | 21:25 |
| Gear_ | I have power kernel whatever | 21:25 |
| kerio | Estel_: i tried that, but i couldn't get it to work | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | it's about not using it for system updates (cssu is considered system update) | 21:25 |
| Gear_ | and cssu | 21:25 |
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| kerio | Gear_: can you get a root shell somehow? | 21:25 |
| Gear_ | sudo gainroot? | 21:25 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: just type "root" without quotes | 21:25 |
| kerio | well, launch "du -hsx /" as root in some way | 21:25 |
| freemangordon | and be veeery careful what you do, double-check your commands | 21:26 |
| Gear_ | 293.9M | 21:26 |
| Gear_ | what does that mean | 21:26 |
| freemangordon | your root filesystme usage | 21:26 |
| freemangordon | *filesystem | 21:26 |
| Gear_ | how much is there in total? | 21:26 |
| freemangordon | 293.9MB | 21:27 |
| kerio | Gear_: that you have 294MB stored in your occupied 154MB | 21:27 |
| Gear_ | what? | 21:27 |
| freemangordon | rootfs uses compression | 21:27 |
| Gear_ | uh | 21:27 |
| freemangordon | so it is using 154MB to store 294MB | 21:27 |
| Gear_ | ok | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | 303.7MB. He's bette than me :( | 21:28 |
| kerio | also, aiui ubi volumes autoexpand a bit | 21:28 |
| Gear_ | how much space is there in total | 21:28 |
| kerio | so you might get a bit more | 21:28 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: ~252MB | 21:28 |
| Gear_ | how do you know it's using 154mb | 21:28 |
| kerio | 251.25MiB | 21:29 |
| kerio | Gear_: you said so! | 21:29 |
| freemangordon | 21:16 <Gear_> rootfs 73/227mb free opt 1240/2015 mb free | 21:29 |
| Gear_ | oh. right. | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | probably ~227-73 | 21:29 |
| freemangordon | ooh, why 227? | 21:29 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ^^^ | 21:29 |
| kerio | <kerio> also, aiui ubi volumes autoexpand a bit | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | well, in my case it's 228 | 21:30 |
| Gear_ | I'm looking for some cool eyecandy visualisation stuff | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | kerio: can't parse | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | same here, honestly | 21:30 |
| kerio | mine too, but that's probably due to rounding errors | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | what autoexpand? | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | like sigil in toment? | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | torment* | 21:30 |
| kerio | Estel_: yes, precisely like that | 21:30 |
| * freemangordon is lost | 21:30 | |
| kerio | or maybe not | 21:30 |
| kerio | ubifs will try using more space as you start running out | 21:31 |
| Gear_ | ubisoft | 21:31 |
| kerio | i noticed that on the sheevaplug too | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | when you're constrained, try to expand. Logical. | 21:31 |
| Gear_ | hey I have pwnie express on my spare mint phone | 21:31 |
| kerio | it's especially noticeable when your rootfs fills up | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | kerio: do you know the exact partition size? | 21:31 |
| kerio | because you've added too many torrents and the fucking transmission info directory is in /var/lib | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I think both of us need to read manual on ubifs | 21:31 |
| Gear_ | how can I format that to swap all this stuff over, this phone is falling apart and nearly dead | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: reflash | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | ...as i don't get what he is saying about, too | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | s/saying/speaking/ | 21:32 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: ...as i don't get what he is speaking about, too | 21:32 |
| kerio | Gear_: install backupmenu, make a full backup, reflash your other phone, install backupmenu there, load the backup | 21:32 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 21:32 | |
| Estel_ | and experience attack of clones | 21:33 |
| Gear_ | my imei number will change | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | it wont | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | afaik | 21:33 |
| Gear_ | if I flash the other phone? | 21:33 |
| kerio | Gear_: no | 21:34 |
| Gear_ | and transfer everything then use that as my phone, and this as my toy? | 21:34 |
| kerio | the IMEI is stored in the rapuyama CAL, so there's no way to change that | 21:34 |
| Gear_ | but it'll go to whatever the other phone is | 21:34 |
| kerio | Gear_: restoring a backupmenu backup will give you an exact copy of your current phone | 21:34 |
| kerio | kinda | 21:34 |
| Gear_ | I'm not sure I want that, there might be crap on here that I don't actually need | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | unles connecting few cables here and there and electroducing it while submerge in liquid nitrogen | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, jokes aside | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | first - go and read wiki | 21:35 |
| freemangordon | make sure you have the correct kernel preinstalled | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | second | 21:35 |
| Gear_ | I wouldn't mind doing a "fresh install" unless there's no point | 21:35 |
| freemangordon | ~flashing | 21:35 |
| infobot | methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | do full reflash, install kernel-power, then reformat partition layout as per wiki | 21:35 |
| kerio | Secondly, did you choose a good value for vol_size or enable autoresize in your ubinize configuration? It is possible that your UBI volume is not utilising the full space of the available flash. | 21:35 |
| kerio | freemangordon: do you have 252M used? | 21:35 |
| kerio | er | 21:35 |
| kerio | 252M in your reported size | 21:36 |
| freemangordon | no | 21:36 |
| kerio | how much? | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, changing partition layout is best done as early as possible | 21:36 |
| freemangordon | kerio: 305.6M | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | then, while doing it, you may also decide to change (or not) home filesystem to ext4 | 21:36 |
| Gear_ | changing to what | 21:36 |
| kerio | i mean what df -h reports as "Size" | 21:36 |
| freemangordon | rootfs 227.9M 163.9M 59.8M 73% / | 21:36 |
| kerio | same as me | 21:36 |
| kerio | hmm | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, again, first read wiki | 21:36 |
| Gear_ | I'm not very good with linux | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | it's quite useless to copy instructions from there to here, on irc | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | thats why ik said read wiki | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: are you good on reading? | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | http://wiki.maemo.org | 21:37 |
| Gear_ | yes I am thanks for asking | 21:37 |
| Gear_ | I have the opportunity to pick up a new in box n900 for 100 bucks | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | there is "beginners section" exactly for "not good with linux" guys | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | rootfs 227.6M here | 21:38 |
| Gear_ | would you guys grab that | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | unless it's from hong-kong, yes | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | without second thought | 21:38 |
| kerio | Gear_: like a priest would grab a choir boy's butt | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | :D | 21:38 |
| Gear_ | it's another phone I don't really need, but I plan on using an n900 until they're so dead they don't do anything | 21:39 |
| Gear_ | there's no other phone I like | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: the you definitely should start reading ;) | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | *then | 21:39 |
| Gear_ | android is so shitty | 21:39 |
| Gear_ | and I will never own an apple product | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, no worries, at beginning, kerio was as irritating as you | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | but he started reading | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | and see where he ended now | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | talking about barriers, ubifs, and whatsnot | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | are you sure you want end like that? :P | 21:40 |
| Gear_ | and choir boys butts | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: since when kerio is not irritating? :P | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | instead of you know, getting girls with new iphone? | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, ;) | 21:40 |
| kerio | i was a long-time linux user though | 21:40 |
| Gear_ | I managed to stream video through wifi | 21:41 |
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| Gear_ | that's the most I've done with linux | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | no worries, as next step wifi would stream you over video | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | omg | 21:42 |
| Gear_ | I'm making a kite that can drop things on people usi9ng HEN | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | you want to use usb cable as kite line? | 21:42 |
| Gear_ | no, to enable a little solenoid | 21:42 |
| kerio | i wouldn't do that, the musb port is really flaky | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | yep | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, what, no one said my sense of humour is sensible today :P | 21:42 |
| Gear_ | and to stream the video back to a netbook | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, for that -* ad now seriously... | 21:43 |
| Gear_ | so I can see who I'm dropping stuff on | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | yopu use OpenPilot | 21:43 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: we still can't believe it :P | 21:43 |
| Gear_ | what's openpilot | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | and it's software is available for maemo | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | google openpilot | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | i.e. not that it's made by google | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | just google for it | 21:43 |
| Gear_ | can it enable the host mode and trigger a little 5v thing to drop stuff on people? | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | then, you steer your airplane, zeppelin, or whatsnot over wifi or 3G or... | 21:44 |
| Gear_ | kite, it's stationary | 21:44 |
| kerio | Gear_: if you just need the 5v, then it's even easier | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | as long as it doesn't use more than 200mA, yes | 21:44 |
| kerio | well, yes | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | do it with a battery | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | don;t break USB port on your n900 | 21:45 |
| Gear_ | I shouldn't need a relay | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | sure, a simple switch will work for you | 21:45 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer05, bugs.maemo.org looks fine to me. Search works, I can access attachments, so I think it's fine. | 21:45 |
| Gear_ | actually I might if I need to light a fuse | 21:45 |
| Gear_ | using nichrome | 21:45 |
| kerio | Gear_: do you have access to a soldering iron and a steady hand? | 21:45 |
| Gear_ | yes I do | 21:46 |
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| Estel_ | Gear_, why doing it over hen? use bluetooth and bkuetooth-to-serial adaptor | 21:46 |
| Gear_ | screw that | 21:46 |
| kerio | ~usbfix | 21:46 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 21:46 |
| Gear_ | I'll be logged into my netbook with the phone anyway | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | unless your definition of kite is different than mine, I don't see usb cable hanging from it fancy | 21:47 |
| Gear_ | so I can putty and open HEN and drop things | 21:47 |
| Gear_ | the netbook is a wifi access point and the phone is logged in and streaming video | 21:47 |
| kerio | oh you need a camera, too | 21:47 |
| kerio | hm | 21:47 |
| Gear_ | I wish I knew how to put crosshairs up | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | kerio: wifi bandwith should allow streaming | 21:48 |
| Gear_ | overlay something onto the display | 21:48 |
| Gear_ | damn I want to get openpilot now | 21:48 |
| kerio | Gear_: http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/13/131403/2158022-magnavox_odyssey_overlays_large.jpg | 21:49 |
| kerio | over your netbook :D | 21:49 |
| Gear_ | heh | 21:49 |
| Gear_ | that'd be retarded. | 21:49 |
| kerio | in all seriousness, fix your n900's usb | 21:49 |
| Gear_ | you mean beef up the ground? | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | andre__: many thanks for confirming | 21:50 |
| kerio | i mean | 21:50 |
| kerio | ~usbfix | 21:50 |
| infobot | somebody said usbfix was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | BTW I still don;t get the "epoxy" part | 21:50 |
| kerio | to be fair, this n900's usb port seems to be resisting more | 21:50 |
| Gear_ | you mean beef the ground up | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | what's wrong with epoxy? | 21:50 |
| kerio | Gear_: *wink wink nudge nudge saynomore* | 21:51 |
| Gear_ | shouldn't be anything wrong with expoxy if you use it sparingly | 21:51 |
| Gear_ | but I'd solder it on | 21:51 |
| kerio | i think the issue with epoxy is that it doesn't actually fix the problem | 21:51 |
| Gear_ | or just leave it, it's been fine since I got it | 21:51 |
| Gear_ | epoxy would hold it there | 21:51 |
| freemangordon | kerio: mine is 3 year old, the only thing i did is to file my charger/cable connector teeth a bit | 21:51 |
| freemangordon | so it seems it depends on your luck | 21:52 |
| Gear_ | hey my speaker is really quiet | 21:52 |
| Gear_ | when I pulled that metal bit off it never properly sealed after that | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | kerio: why epoxy should not glue metal to the board? | 21:52 |
| * ShadowJK has never boken usb and hasn't done any mods either | 21:52 | |
| kerio | Gear_: the Marshal Jacques de la Palice would be alive, if he weren't dead | 21:52 |
| Gear_ | I tried putting some double sided tape around the "speaker channel" but that didn't really work | 21:53 |
| freemangordon | smart | 21:53 |
| kerio | yay, a new kim dotcom video | 21:53 |
| * freemangordon is off for cigarettes | 21:53 | |
| Gear_ | gordon freeman can't smoke in that hyper oxygenated suit | 21:53 |
| Gear_ | mainyl because it has a helmet | 21:54 |
| Gear_ | when is ep3 supposed to come out? | 21:54 |
| freemangordon | he can't pee with it on too, so he removes it sometimes :D | 21:54 |
| Gear_ | I thought it recycled all waste | 21:55 |
| kerio | freemangordon: what do you mean he can't pee with it on? | 21:55 |
| kerio | Gear_: indeed | 21:55 |
| kerio | all good exo-suits do that! | 21:55 |
| Gear_ | he can't take it on or off without help | 21:55 |
| kerio | yeah, as shown in half life and in half life 2 | 21:55 |
| kerio | where he needs a huge apparatus to wear the suit | 21:55 |
| kerio | ...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait | 21:56 |
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| Gear_ | he jsut appears with the suit | 21:56 |
| kerio | "still fits like a glove! at least, the glove parts do" | 21:56 |
| Gear_ | I'm sur ethe process of putting it on would be at least as difficult as a space suit | 21:56 |
| Gear_ | also it should have a rebreather | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: (epoxy) a) epoxy is more flexible than solder, so solder will break first. and b) epoxy would only glue to the green varnish unless you remove it and thoroughly sandpaper the copper under it | 21:57 |
| Gear_ | it can admimister intravenous drugs and has muscle augmentation, a rebreather would be a simple addition | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: and c) epoxy is nearly impossible to remove or rework when sth goes wrong | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, as "some" claims, hardened epoxy is much more elastic than solder joins, so while it keeps usb in place, it doesnt protect it from damage to usb pads and it's solder | 21:58 |
| Gear_ | I'd use solder | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | and it's true for most consuimer grade epoxies | 21:58 |
| Gear_ | epoxy could gum up stuff you dont' want it to | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | there are, available for purchase, epoxies that are less elastic than metal | 21:58 |
| Gear_ | I' duse solder | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | but they're not as that adhesive | 21:58 |
| Gear_ | but I haven't taken the phone that far apart | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | soldering is better option | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | if someone doesn't touch soldering iron with long stick and want to use epoxy no matter what, I would recommend ones used to repair hydraulic | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | in form of 2-part "putty", seals underwater (lol@ factoid) and after sealing ressemble rock, not elastic at all. Sadly, it's still quite hard to attach it properly, it resemble toy putty in consistence | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | frankly, i see soldering both easier and more robust | 22:01 |
| eyescream | Are the temp repos linked on tmo trustworthy? | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | downside - even people experienced with soldering (like me or vi) happen to run into strage issue after soldering | 22:01 |
| kerio | eyescream: is repository.maemo.org trustworthy? | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | despite that only usb shield is soldered to shieldplane, device starts to turn on itself upon inserting battery | 22:01 |
| kerio | Estel_: have you tried a | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | and in extreme cases, turn on in act_dead mode no matter what, requiring one to set r&d flag pwr_button | 22:02 |
| kerio | ~n900-full-reset | 22:02 |
| infobot | n900-full-reset is, like, when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers. | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | sure | 22:02 |
| eyescream | kerio: I've wondered that, too. My answer was more trustworthy than anything else. | 22:02 |
| Gear_ | http://www.firenock.com/main.php?page=iBowSight | 22:03 |
| Estel_ | personally, I suspect the following: | 22:03 |
| Gear_ | can you emulate iphone software? | 22:03 |
| Estel_ | quite a heat is required to attach usb shield to shieldplane | 22:03 |
| kerio | eyescream: packages are still signed with the same gpg keys | 22:03 |
| Estel_ | considering how tiny connections inside multi-layer PCB are... | 22:03 |
| kerio | so even the weird repos are a lot more trustworthy than, say, packages from nokia's repos | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | there is huge chance of burning out pcb isolating some two of them | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | while soldering shield to groundplane | 22:04 |
| Gear_ | use flux and solder carefully | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | resulting in some connection, where it shouldn't be present | 22:04 |
| Gear_ | lots of people have done it | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, any comment on that from someone familliar with N900 PCB point of view? | 22:05 |
| Estel_ | is it plausible explanation? | 22:05 |
| Gear_ | I haven't yet because it requires taking the hell apart of the phone | 22:05 |
| Gear_ | and the usb port is fine | 22:05 |
| Estel_ | I though it's just me, but I've talked with at least 6 people experiencing same issue after soldering down port. Personally, I soldered it on few devices, and two of them are affected by that, immediately after soldering | 22:06 |
| Gear_ | my brothers one broke off and I'm gonna use his as a guineapig | 22:06 |
| Gear_ | use an adjustable heat iron and flux and do it carefully | 22:06 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: yep, got it now (epoxy) | 22:06 |
| Estel_ | 2nd one was soldered very carefully by me, yet, it still shows this behavior | 22:06 |
| Gear_ | it only has to stick | 22:06 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: gas iron? | 22:07 |
| Gear_ | not armour the whole thing up with solder | 22:07 |
| Estel_ | well, pwr_button r&d flag is nice way to nullify it, but... | 22:07 |
| eyescream | kerio: I see. Thanks. I might as well go ahead and try them out, then. | 22:07 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, yes, but I made sure that heat from it doesn't affect other parts via air | 22:07 |
| Gear_ | my gas iron is brutal, I wouldn't use it on any n900 | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: could it be electrostatic discharge? I know you are experienced, but... | 22:08 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, hm, I always touch solid ground before soldering it, and gas iron, as said... don't think so | 22:08 |
| Gear_ | you'd have to overheat it so badly, pcb isn't that heat condictive | 22:08 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: only touch? no grounded ring on your wrist? | 22:09 |
| Estel_ | exact same copies of software on all devices, some get affected, some not - just after soldering, immediately, si I would say "hardware" | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eyescream: skerion is | 22:09 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, gas iron handle is insulative and tip grounded, so my wrist shouldn't matter | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: :nod: | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: what? | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wedrop.it and merlin too, i'd say | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | both yoiu and the iron should be grounded afaik | 22:10 |
| Gear_ | as soon as the solder flows let that side cool | 22:10 |
| Estel_ | I mean that grip of my gas soldering iron is made of non-conductive material, and grounded to avoid static | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 22:10 |
| Gear_ | is it really necessary? my phone has been going since it was new | 22:10 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I can't ground "whole" iron or it would take heat to the ground, still, I would rather blame heat | 22:11 |
| Gear_ | what would you ground it to anyway | 22:11 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: do you have an idea what material is pcb made from? | 22:11 |
| Estel_ | frankly, it just looks like device"thinks" there is charger connected, on low lvl, but data pins are *not* short | 22:11 |
| eyescream | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks. And thanks for the updates on the migration process. :) | 22:12 |
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| Estel_ | no idea, but i would guess some epoxy-derrivative and glass fiber? | 22:12 |
| Gear_ | epoxy is too gunky | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 22:12 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: i doubt it is glass/epoxy because of hi freq parts | 22:12 |
| Estel_ | right | 22:13 |
| Estel_ | so no idea, as said | 22:13 |
| Estel_ | why asking? some idea? | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | so if it is tephlon (or whatever the english term is) i'd say it is overheated | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (soldering) make sure you got no static or parasitic electricity on your solder tip | 22:13 |
| Gear_ | can iphone software be ported? | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: what software? | 22:13 |
| Gear_ | http://www.firenock.com/main.php?page=iBowSight | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | WTF? | 22:14 |
| Gear_ | it uses the camera and "levels" | 22:14 |
| Estel_ | I would say "heat", as usb port is (relatively) big, and to solder it's outer side to ground plane on device (under scrapped green mask) you need quite a heat, even if you do it with small ammount of solder | 22:15 |
| Gear_ | accelerometers | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: if you get the source, I guess it could be ported | 22:15 |
| Gear_ | it's a relatively useful piece of software for bow | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | i suspect that "something" is very fragile, be it a path inside pcb or whatnot. Maybe ikt's not direct contact, even | 22:16 |
| Gear_ | shooting | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | it seems to affect device only at boot time | 22:16 |
| bef0rd | but that hardware is designed for iPhone form factor | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | no higher power usage during runtime (by a slightest bit), no other ill effects | 22:16 |
| Gear_ | what? | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | usb working fine for both hostmode and client | 22:16 |
| bef0rd | http://www.firenock.com/images/iBowSight/iPhoneBParts.jpg <- Gear_ | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | bef0rd: he'll use duct tape :D | 22:16 |
| Gear_ | oh you mean the chassis | 22:17 |
| Gear_ | it could be altered | 22:17 |
| bef0rd | duct tape should work | 22:17 |
| bef0rd | :P | 22:17 |
| Gear_ | dremel | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | it works everytime :D | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | just that during boot, in enters act_dead, and shutdowns, due to lack of charger | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | (boots ok with charger connected) | 22:17 |
| Gear_ | estel that sounds bad | 22:17 |
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| Gear_ | how many did this happen to? | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | 30%? | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | r&d flag pwr_button "fixes" it and no further ill effects observed, for more than a year of usage | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | yea, would say 30%, but it's quite random | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | funny enough, people who doesn't care for grounding rings on wrist or even touching anything grounded before starting, doesn't seem to be afffected :P | 22:19 |
| Estel_ | so i would say luck | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 22:19 |
| Gear_ | I see no reason to really do that mod until the ground thing actually breaks off | 22:19 |
| Estel_ | it's too late then | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: it will be late then | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | it takes copper with it | 22:19 |
| Gear_ | it'll still work, it's just soldered on anyway | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | *the copper | 22:20 |
| Gear_ | and you're soldering the sides | 22:20 |
| Estel_ | data and power pads gets damaged, and even if they look all clean (rarely they do), and you're able to fix it, there is high chance it will stop working again | 22:20 |
| Gear_ | that's all connected to the same ground isn't it? | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: it is not only ground on USB | 22:20 |
| Gear_ | eh? | 22:20 |
| Estel_ | soldering 4 pins of microusb is pita enough, and if copper pads get broken too, it's impossible unless one use under_battery pads | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | if the connector falls of, it takes data planes off too | 22:21 |
| Estel_ | even then, it's pita to fix | 22:21 |
| kerio | i thought the under-battery pads were for rapuyama's usb | 22:21 |
| Gear_ | my brothers one didn't take the data pins off | 22:21 |
| Estel_ | for what? | 22:21 |
| Gear_ | just the little shield fell out | 22:21 |
| Estel_ | gear, wf? :P | 22:22 |
| Estel_ | wtf* | 22:22 |
| Gear_ | my brothers n900 the little ground shield fell out and it still worked with some wiggling | 22:22 |
| Estel_ | can't parse, we're talking about microUSB port on N900, it can't break partially ;) | 22:23 |
| Estel_ | it just goes off | 22:23 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, once, I had fun idea | 22:23 |
| Gear_ | it's just the ground metal thing | 22:23 |
| Estel_ | checking pcb schematics | 22:23 |
| Gear_ | so that iphone software, could it be ported do you think? | 22:23 |
| Estel_ | to ensure that no path cross pcb just at sides of port | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: already answered, gimme the source code and i guess i'll port it | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | drilling it with 0.5 mm drill | 22:24 |
| Gear_ | I don't have the source code | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | what to "port" then | 22:24 |
| Gear_ | I dunno. can it be reverse engineered? | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | then, putting microusb port with legs soldered on the other said, through holes | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | sure, get tools and reverse engineer it, alongside windows, and few other minor software bits | 22:25 |
| freemangordon | Gear_: if you find me HexRays for ARM, I promise i'll RE it for you. Or will write a replacement | 22:25 |
| Estel_ | writing replacement seems less work :P | 22:25 |
| freemangordon | yes | 22:25 |
| freemangordon | though I don;t have a bow here, might need to get one :D | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | Gear_, start a kickstarted project | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | frankly, it would be possible to do using N900 software already available | 22:26 |
| Gear_ | look up bowtech destroyer 350 back ops | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: sound sane (USB holes) | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | there is plenty of it measuring angles | 22:26 |
| Gear_ | black ops | 22:27 |
| Gear_ | that's my bow, it's brutal | 22:27 |
| bef0rd | hexrays/ida is way too expensive | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | though I don;t think we have access to PCB | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | bef0rd: I know | 22:27 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, it does, and it would be rock solid thereafter, like mikniusb ports or regular ones, but that unidentified "heat" damage scarred me off | 22:27 |
| Gear_ | heat it slower | 22:27 |
| bef0rd | but it's a fine piece of software | 22:27 |
| Estel_ | time for FOSS RE tool :P | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | bef0rd: yeah. And we are lucky that at least x86 hexrays leaked :) | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | I can't stand this afront to freedom, no foss RE thing being better than commercial ones? :) | 22:28 |
| Gear_ | it might actually be worth just getting an iphone if I'm gonna pay for that mount | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: come on , writing decompiler/disassembler is huuge project | 22:29 |
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| Gear_ | actually I think that software might come installed on an iphone already, it seems to be a custom iphone | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | custom iphone? | 22:29 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, so writing operating system is :P | 22:29 |
| Gear_ | it has camo | 22:29 |
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| Gear_ | does the guy say it's an app? | 22:30 |
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| bef0rd | Gear_: maybe I dont get it but that software seems quite basic, just a camera and a level indicator? | 22:30 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, there are N900's sold with Faircrack preinstalled, for 2k$ | 22:30 |
| bef0rd | and a dot in the middle of the camera viewer ? | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | bef0rd: ;) | 22:30 |
| Estel_ | "custom hacker phones" | 22:30 |
| Gear_ | I don't know | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: what?!? 2000$ for n900? | 22:31 |
| Gear_ | it's the first time I've seen that software and I haven't researched it yet | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I though of selling N900's like that myself :P | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | come on | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | I saw at least few of them sol for 1800 usd, but it was a while ago. Maybe people got smarter since... Or not | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | I wouldn;t believe someone is stupid enough to buy that | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | You wouldn't belive how stupid people can be | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | though... people are stupid, they buy iphones | 22:31 |
| nlrofl | hello! i just tried registering on the maemo.org website, but the security images are offline? | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | stuff N900 with pentest things, make a fancy hackish theme, add smscon with pre-confogured scripts for "eavesdropping" on owner gps position and talks... | 22:32 |
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| Estel_ | and you have 5k dollars device for sale :P | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | hacker/spy ultimate device combined | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | recaller hidden and set up to record calls | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | smscon to monitor gps position and take photos of user | 22:33 |
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| Estel_ | = ultimate gift for suspected husband or employe | 22:33 |
| bef0rd | I think Estel_ meant this one http://pwnieexpress.com/products/pwnphone | 22:33 |
| jyrjyr | Estel_, sounds very cool - been thinking about similar stuff =) | 22:33 |
| bef0rd | wonder where are they getting the new n900 from :P | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | well, if not for my funny morals, I would already made small fortune on it, "spy phones" are expensive on local wanna-be-ebay sites | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | hong-kong | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | "brand new" :P | 22:34 |
| bef0rd | hah yea | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | 995 $? this one is cheaper | 22:35 |
| jyrjyr | =) | 22:35 |
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| Estel_ | still fun way to sell devices, though | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon went away, I bet he is buying stock of N900's ;) | 22:36 |
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| Estel_ | to stuff them with stuff | 22:36 |
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| jyrjyr | i'm going to test building a n900 cluster | 22:37 |
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| jyrjyr | only have two of them currently though =P | 22:37 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 throws another 5 N900 plus 14 Openmoko Freerunner GTA02 on jyrjyr | 22:40 | |
| jyrjyr | =D | 22:40 |
| jyrjyr | it would make a nice little compiling farm | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I pondered that when we had a stock of a few 1000 GTA02 which were pretty unclear if they'd ever get sold | 22:41 |
| jyrjyr | oh! | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, you could create darwinia with them | 22:42 |
| jyrjyr | i'd like to make that farm available in the net | 22:42 |
| jyrjyr | Estel_, exactly =) | 22:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I figured how they'd look when put up to the wall in a 30*30 grid, or 30*80 | 22:44 |
| khm | what is the fastest interconnect available for the n900? | 22:46 |
| khm | usb ethernet? | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | theoretically should max out at 100+some mbit | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even 2 or 3 hundred | 22:48 |
| khm | not much there then. have to spend a long time optimizing mpi | 22:48 |
| khm | could do a dsitributed grid over wan, with a client that only activates when the phone is charging | 22:48 |
| khm | folding@go | 22:48 |
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| Estel_ | hahaha | 22:48 |
| Estel_ | usb ethernet max out at 5Mb/s most of the time | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in real system yes | 22:49 |
| Estel_ | more expensive ones can get 15 Mb/s max, if we're talking about usb to ethernet dongles | 22:49 |
| * Estel_ nods | 22:49 | |
| khm | it's not really about throughput though in a compute cluster | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | true | 22:50 |
| khm | you worry more about latency | 22:50 |
| khm | and reliability, of course | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | latency seems ok even in 2$ ethernet dongles | 22:50 |
| khm | but usually I get yelled at if average latency exceeds about 250ns | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought we're talking about ethernet-over-usb, not dongles | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | well, in gmy limited tests el-cheapo usb->ethernet solution was quite reliable, suprisingly, but it doesn't apply to old davicom (dm96) module powered ones | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | yea, ethernet over usb sounds more approriate | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | still, suprisingly, hostmode and dongles are cheap and effective, if you buy el-cheapo qf9700 ones | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | quite compatible with any network infra yoiu may have or want | 22:52 |
| khm | I want someone to buy a license from altair for the scheduler software and put down "assloads of nokias" as the environment | 22:52 |
| khm | look *that* up on your price sheet | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | ethernet over usb for 1k devices could prove problematic on hardware level for obvious reasons | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | :) | 22:53 |
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| Estel_ | i wonder what the real life limits of N900 wifi hardware are, when it comes to bandwidth | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | probably limit is in spi bus | 22:55 |
| Estel_ | any ideas how it looks there? | 22:55 |
| Gear_ | ethernet work well through usb? | 22:56 |
| Gear_ | estel just try torrenting something | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | not so easy, you need to ensure stable testing enviromnent with no other limiting factors | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | and | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | flash speed limits you ;) | 22:57 |
| Gear_ | that sucks | 22:58 |
| Gear_ | flash doesn't run fast | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | would need ramdisk | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | something inside ram | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | uploaded | 22:58 |
| Gear_ | oh that flash | 22:58 |
| tadzik | nulldisk | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | tadzik, true :D | 22:58 |
| tadzik | a fuse FS that doesn't actually store anything | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | sending zeroes over wifi is fun, too | 22:58 |
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| MrPingu | Evening! | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 5 left | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | 5 what | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2995 | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | karma whore | 23:05 |
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| MrPingu | Let's see if I can find 5 posts for you :P | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 23:08 |
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| Estel_ | ah, it's why hildon foundation [strike]wasted[/strike] used donated money to buy vbulletin propertiary license | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | upon migration to SMF or PHPBB DocScrutinizer05 would lose his thanks! | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 23:14 |
| MrPingu | DocScrutinizer05: Congratulations on your 3k'th thanks | 23:15 |
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| kerio | can you cancel a "thanks"? | 23:16 |
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| MrPingu | kerio: yes | 23:17 |
| kerio | :D | 23:18 |
| kerio | Thanked 2,999 Times in 537 Posts | 23:19 |
| MrPingu | I think I have more posts left to thank than you to unthank :P :P | 23:23 |
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| kerio | ._. | 23:34 |
| kerio | well, i only had one thanked post | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: \o/ :-D | 23:34 |
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| Ex-Opesa | Hi. Anyone uses Kasvopus on n900 here? | 23:36 |
| Ex-Opesa | Its a facebook client. | 23:36 |
| MrPingu | Ex-Opesa: used, but that's a long time ago. Now I use m.facebook.com in MicroB | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote, FYI (to whom it may concern): | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > You probably know that the SSL setup on vcs.maemo.org is broken. The | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > certificate and the private key file do not match. | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > The certificate will anyway expire on the 3rd of Jan, 2013. Hope that | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > the Hildon Foundation can request a new one, as soon as the domain | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > ownership is transferred. If somebody needs help with requesting a | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > certificate please contact Niels or myself. | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > | 23:41 |
| Ex-Opesa | MrPingu: Okay. I was just wondering why we can't check our messages in it. I mean that is one of the basic and most important feature of a fb client | 23:41 |
| Ex-Opesa | MrPingu: Thanks for replying though. I might post on forum later. | 23:42 |
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| MrPingu | Ex-Opesa: YW, I might dissapoint you but I think FB client development for N900 is dead | 23:43 |
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| Ex-Opesa | MrPingu: Yeah. zzz | 23:48 |
| MrPingu | I might be that fMobi from ovistore is decent but it costs you | 23:49 |
| MrPingu | *it | 23:49 |
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| Ex-Opesa | Yea | 23:50 |
| Ex-Opesa | I will check it too | 23:51 |
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