IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-01-19

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Estel_is it just me, or maemo repos are down for downloading too?01:04
Estel_(haven't found anything about repositories on OP of thread mentioned in #maemo topic, don't have time/will to read through dozens of other, mostly useless, pages of that thread)01:07
DocScrutinizer05look again, update5-updateupdate01:07
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Estel_thought, that update 6, "big green letters" "mission accomplished" nullifies that01:09
DocScrutinizer05no, since the whol ethread is about *tmo* migration01:09
* Estel_ nodas01:10
Estel_that why I didn't wanted to read it thoroughly re repos01:10
DocScrutinizer05and the fact that you can *read* "mission accomplished" is the proof in intself01:10
Estel_and where is thread about repos? ;)01:10
Estel_or any other place wheree one can get updated about repo status, without need to harras them with pings/update attempts?01:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid somebody will start it in 5 seconds01:11
Estel_so, basically, repos are down, but it doesn't matter, as TMO is working and thats all that counts? :|01:11
Estel_joking a little ;)01:11
Estel_OK, will try my update in a week or so. Thanks for info01:11
brknEstel_: use a tmp mirror01:12
Estel_brkn,  thats something of value to know - where it is located?01:12
DocScrutinizer05listen buddy, we moved 95% of maemo to a new home this week, and migration went exceptionally smooth, and now I got weekend and CBA to get pestered by anybody about it01:12
brknbut wait for 15 mins01:13
Estel_congratulations, I'm impressed. I hope it settles in new home smoothly ( DocScrutinizer05)01:13
Estel_brkn, thanks a lot01:13
brknresync is currently running for community + community extras +  extras + extras devel01:14
brknthe other ones you can safely use01:14
* DocScrutinizer05 thinks woody's suggested 3 days of downtime wouldn't suffice probably for the intended purpose01:16
Estel_thanks a lot, it will do the job01:16
DocScrutinizer053 weeks feels more appropriate01:17
DocScrutinizer05brkn: please take down l2 ;-d01:17
brknshall i?01:18
brknpoor Estel_  xD01:18
DocScrutinizer05nah, i'll do it01:18
Estel_take down 12? what does it mean?01:18
DocScrutinizer05you know, *me* is BOFH01:18
brknget yourself a beer and let me finish01:19
brknsync is done01:19
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: it means brkn and me negotiated who of us is entitled to take down the server he's maintaining and i pay for, so you might leran something01:20
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Estel_no freakin idea what you're talking about, but maybe I'm not in mood for your sense of humour today ;)01:21
brknactually it's good you came along01:22
DocScrutinizer05since people think they are entitled for premium service, till there's suddenly no service at all anymore01:22
brknwould you mind to test extras and community?01:22
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Estel_but if you mean what you think I mean, I'm pretty sure, that from both of us, i'm the one with much less problem to have no official maemo reepos for 3 weeks ;)01:23
Estel_or no at all01:23
Estel_brkn,  extras and community? sure, why not01:23
Estel_sync is done so, actually, all of them should work now, yep?01:23
brknor add all fremantle just for fun01:24
Estel_roger that ;)01:24
brknand run a update to see whether packages still report mismatch of hashsums01:24
DocScrutinizer05you finally fixed dat shite?01:24
DocScrutinizer05got 26.12 repo copy?01:24
Estel_can it be done via apt, or you want to torment me like namelesa one, and require doing it via ham? ;)01:25
brknDocScrutinizer05: no, mirrored extras and community from merlin199101:25
DocScrutinizer05so the latter01:26
brkni dropped extras-devel-testing01:26
brkngot us down from 425gb to 344gb01:26
brkni wonder what those packages where01:26
DocScrutinizer05dropped wut?01:26
brknmerlin said extras-devel-testing is crap01:26
DocScrutinizer05no such thing01:26
brknor sth similar to that01:26
DocScrutinizer05merlin said extras-testing is redundant01:27
DocScrutinizer05extras-devel however shouldn't get dropped01:27
brknextras-testing i meant01:28
brknnot extras-devel01:28
DocScrutinizer05dat shite01:28
brknextras-testing was huuuge01:28
DocScrutinizer05nuke it01:28
brkni did01:28
brknbesides i have a second complete copy01:28
brknyou should know by now i am way too paranoid to keep a single copy01:29
DocScrutinizer05where's our traffic?01:29
brknjust added 100gb to it01:29
DocScrutinizer05what's total now?01:29
brknlike for january?01:30
brkn1.x tb01:30
DocScrutinizer05meh :-P01:30
brknas i said..low01:30
Estel_well, added whole maemo just for sheer fun of [strike]abusing[/srike] testing it01:30
Estel_update on progress, will report after 2014 when it's finished ;)01:31
DocScrutinizer05I don't get it how we can be at 1.0TB with a disk that holds way more01:31
Estel_some errors, submitting01:31
DocScrutinizer05did we pull that much in Dec?01:31
brknuhm yes as well01:31
brknthe rsyn alone was almost 1tb01:32
brknfrom the other vps01:32
DocScrutinizer05:nod: - Dec though01:32
brkn~ 9xx gb01:32
DocScrutinizer05seems we got some headroom for rest of month01:32
brknlet the bits flow01:33
brknmaybe i should announce it on tmo and not bury it in a thread01:33
brknEstel_: report?01:33
Estel_looks like I screwed something, as it suddenfly failed miserably, errors exceeded my terminal history backscroll01:34
Estel_investigating01:34 ???01:34
DocScrutinizer05>>...full time experience with vmware esx...<< gooooood01:35
DocScrutinizer05(new sysop)01:35
DocScrutinizer05we need to start selecting01:35
Estel_brkn,  ^^^01:36
Estel_what have I missed?01:36
brknnow that looks nice01:37
Estel_I think that most important part is repeated:01:38
Estel_Err fremantle/non-free Packages01:38
Estel_zip2: (stdin) is not a bzip2 file.01:38
brknall failed to fetch is because there are no bz2, only gz01:38
DocScrutinizer05sunprocess bzwip2 failed - wasn't that an error due to messybox-powa01:38
* Estel_ nods01:38
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Estel_shouldn't be.01:38
Estel_well, as proud user of bash and standard busybox, test it yourself to filter out ;)01:39
DocScrutinizer05nah, i'll gonna rm -rf the source01:39
Estel_it would be quite funy, if it would be first busybox-power bug in few years, which I doubt, anyway...01:40
Estel_Even more fun to watch would be how quickly iDont fixes it ;)01:40
Estel_brkn,  I'm off for a few minutes - just ask if any further testing needed, will proceed upon returning01:41
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DocScrutinizer05this statement is nonsensical in two (and thus all) ways: a) i've seen that error before, so it wouldn't be first error. and b) I see it again, so obviously it wasn't fixed in a fraction of a day01:47
DocScrutinizer05and c) each monkey could check `which bzip2`01:48
brknDocScrutinizer05: mayb this is ^01:49
DocScrutinizer05brkn: don't feed the trolls, that's my job ;-P01:52
brknback to checking checksums then01:52
brknDocScrutinizer05: you think there were many changes aka new packages for fremantle since december 26th?01:55
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RzRhi guys02:06
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DocScrutinizer05hi rZr02:16
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povbotBug 832390: was not found.02:32
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WizardNumberNextis this repo running or not? I can crearly see you have been doing something, but is it up?03:00
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: there is no smtp server sending the mails...03:27
WizardNumberNextchemjst and DocScrutinizer05: I just have setup two courier servers in row last week. I can fix that03:29
WizardNumberNextchem|st: ^^03:29
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chem|stWizardNumberNext: we do not need a mailserver... do we?03:32
chem|stsendmail should be enough03:32
WizardNumberNextI definitely do not deal with sendmail. Not mine caliber. When something is complex, then I deal with it, otherwise I am too lazy to learn configuration. There must a challange03:33
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: sendmail or proper smtp... mx record for tmo needs to be handled too as there should be reachable03:34
WizardNumberNextI made my own samba server, squid3 proxy, double AP, firewall with magling and transparent redirection, DHCP, DNS - thats part of is "running" on server03:35
WizardNumberNexthard to say running as it apears for microseconds and disappears. On single core 0.8GHz I had 96% idle, now on 4 core 0.8GHz running RT kernel I have 97% IDLE03:37
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: any smtp is suitable... I just need a login or something03:38
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WizardNumberNextI am going to put it on Xen again, but I am bit lazy and preparation takes slightly too much to just sit down and do it on one go - it would take whole day and another03:38
WizardNumberNextchem|st: I kanda like courier - it just runs. I have access to system e-mail without any problem and thats only reason why I have it, but it is proven on other server that my config works both way (in and out)03:40
chem|stWizardNumberNext: quick and dirty would be: you give me credentials for a smtp...03:41
WizardNumberNextit is not any big (at least for my server - 8GiB of RAM (actually 4GiB squid can swallow + whatever else it wants + cache)03:41
WizardNumberNextcredentials? for which smtp?03:42
chem|stany... I don't care03:42
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WizardNumberNextI can give config - all you need is to get couries + esmtps + imaps03:42
WizardNumberNextchem|st: do you have IPv6 address?03:43
WizardNumberNextIPv4 doesn't work from time of provider change03:43
WizardNumberNextat least didn't work from box03:43
WizardNumberNextif you do not have IPv6 address, then register at and get tunnel03:44
WizardNumberNextit would actually make everything easier03:44
chem|stWizardNumberNext: not my call, I was told to NOT handle the server03:45
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WizardNumberNextchem|st I do play with servers, but that is what I do for fun at the moment, it is not for money at the moment. When I started i had no idea what I was doing. System and server - that are two different subjects03:49
WizardNumberNextsystem have its complexity, and server soft have its complexity, but it completely different complexity03:49
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chem|stWizardNumberNext: there is nothing to play on a productive system03:56
WizardNumberNextchem|st: depends - I do check out state of server at least daily03:57
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WizardNumberNextsometimes I have to clean /var/log/ as it comes to moments, when it takes all the remaining space on drive (5GiB only FS)03:58
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khmis this an insane person04:05
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chem|stkhm: I cannot tell!04:07
WizardNumberNextno I just like to add functions to my server - stated out as router+firewall+proxy. Today I have router, firewall, proxy, dns, dhcp, nfs, samba, courier (smtpS, imapS), proftpd (SFTP/FTPS),  apache and who know what else - cannot remember all at once - I am going to migrate it (AGAIN!) to Xen soon04:08
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: I guess we can exploit list.m.o for tmo mail, hm?04:12
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: not without credentials^^04:14
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: vBuletin got a smtp plugin?04:14
DocScrutinizer05or would you call some cmdline mailer?04:15
DocScrutinizer05or drop files somewhere?04:15
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DocScrutinizer05what's the API vBuletin expects for sending mails?04:17
chem|stsmtp or php-sendmail04:17
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DocScrutinizer05well, so we should set up as mail relay04:22
WizardNumberNextDocScrutinizer05: isn't it better to put MX on its own "host"?04:23
chem|stWizardNumberNext: does not matter where the server is04:24
WizardNumberNextI have it on own "host", it is actually on same host as all others04:24
chem|stif mx for talk is lists... I will be able to receive and send from and to talk04:24
chem|stWizardNumberNext: are you drunk or stoned or something?04:25
WizardNumberNextjust tired and I always try to separate everything04:25
WizardNumberNextwhatever, as long as it works...04:26
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WizardNumberNextdo you guys want working courier configuration? Or you are going to use something else?04:27
chem|stnope thanks04:37
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user_anybody where to download deb
shawnjeffersonHow is migration going? almost all bugs worked out?04:58
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infobotmirror is, like,
DocScrutinizer05~literal mirror05:30
infobot"#maemo mirror" is ""05:30
* grummund thinks light text on dark bacground is so much easier to read05:31
DocScrutinizer05~ no, #maemo mirror is
infobotDocScrutinizer05: what are you talking about?05:31
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, #maemo mirror is
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay05:31
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MentalistTraceurAnyone have experience trying to compile sudo and having it make and make install just fine segfault whenever executed with no error messages?06:24
MentalistTraceurs/fine segfault/fine but then segfault/06:25
infobotMentalistTraceur meant: Anyone have experience trying to compile sudo and having it make and make install just fine but then segfault whenever executed with no error messages?06:25
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MentalistTraceurAll the google results are either unrelated programs segfaulting (since like every other command is preceded with sudo nowadays, so google matches those pages), or segfaults from badly set up /etc/sudoers files, but I haven't modified sudoers at all from the one make install creates.06:27
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grummundAre there any key combos or gestures for Home, PgUp, PgDn?06:35
MentalistTraceurgrummund, for the N900 you mean?06:35
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MentalistTraceurNot that I know of, though it's fairly easy to remap hardware keyboard to add them.06:35
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grummundn900 yes.06:36
grummundin particular to send the maemo web browser to top of page.06:36
MentalistTraceurOh. Yeah, standard Home key (which I havmapped to Fn+Left Arrow) works to do that.06:38
MentalistTraceurWant me to find the wiki page for the remapping keyboard how-to?06:38
khmgrummund: shift+space works as pageup in the browser06:38
MentalistTraceurkhm: Doesn't seem to do so for me.06:39
khmit's listed in the official user guide06:41
khmand it works here.06:41
khmgrummund: shift+up and shift+down are supposed to act like home and end in the browser06:41
khmbut something may have broken these shortcuts apparently06:41
MentalistTraceurNow Shift+Up and Shift+Down work for me.06:42
grummundexcellent, thank you :)06:43
MentalistTraceurGranted, only in the browser as far as going to the top and bottom of screen goes (not in text boxes)06:43
MentalistTraceurI presume you no longer need this, then, but to anyone interested:
MentalistTraceurIn case someone idling in here needed it and didn't already know about it or how to find it easily.06:44
grummundkhm: works for me too (in maemo browser)06:44
grummundbut only as simultaneous key press06:45
MentalistTraceurI honestly have no idea why it wasn't self-evident to Nokia to map PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End, to some keys. I get that for the layouts with only two arrow keys they've have had a harder time, but everything else can easily accomodate it on Fn+arrows.06:48
MentalistTraceurEven if you suppose users wouldn't type enough on-device to need them (a flawed supposition at best), they could've then used those standard keys for their expected behavior, instead of adding their own app-specific key combinations.06:50
khmI can't really say I use home or end ever06:52
khm99% of the time I'm in a terminal and ^a ^e work06:52
MentalistTraceurMeh. Point is, it wouldn't have harmed anyone, because I doubt you ever found yourself needing to hold Fn while pressing arrow keys, where-as my use of the N900 is vastly improved by having those keys, and since I've seen other people use the same mappings, I know I'm not the only one.06:55
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MentalistTraceurAs for myself specifically, my typing on the N900 is about evenly split between commandline and not (I like coding in the primitive busybox vi, actually) and other text input.06:56
MentalistTraceurFor instance, I have never been on FreeNode's IRC using anything other than an N900 that I can remember. And as you can see, I'm quite verbose, so it greatly helps having those keys.06:57
MentalistTraceurThough ideally, I would prefer that almost everything was left to user choice... so my ideal setup would have provided users with a clear GUI to remap the keyboard for themselves to begin with.06:58
khmif I were a project manager and a software engineer told me with a straight face he wanted to include an on-device xkb map editor in the product, I would fire him before he could finish the sentence07:03
MentalistTraceur*Shrug*. That most likely (but would really depend on circumstance) if I were creating a phone operating system, I probably wouldn't want you as a project manager.07:07
MentalistTraceurGranted, I see your point, it's effort on a feature that most people wouldn't use, and which a decent amount would manage to misuse into screwing up their devices.07:08
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MentalistTraceurSo I wouldn't give it great priority, nor would I think it should be particularly easy to get to. And I would put a warning pop-up on it so those who don't know what they're doing are encouraged to just back out and leave it alone. And on further thought, I wouldn't mind it being optware, rather than prebundled... In fact that's probably better. But provided to the users in a easy-ish way to get to, I think it should b07:12
khmit wouldn't sell phones.07:12
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MentalistTraceurI think little touches like that - the ability to make the system behave how you want it, helps make the difference between a typical phone that you're fine with, but will upgrade from to any other manufacturer without a second thought, and a phone that you remember as one that did what you wanted, how you wanted it. So in the short term? Of course it wouldn't sell anything. But in the long term, assuming the rest of t07:17
MentalistTraceurhe OS was actually good and not just a hacker/nerd phone OS, it would provide for long-term loyalty.07:17
khmnot for any measurable percentage of any market in the world07:18
MentalistTraceurDisagree. It's a long term thing, but if you managed to survive long enough as a company, it would pay off. Modern consumer culture and typical business-think might get away with forgetting that users are more than just mindless buyers of the latest shiny, but it doesn't mean there's nothing there.07:22
khmusers are not more than just mindless buyers of the latest shiny.07:22
MentalistTraceurAnd whether or not it's measurable is unlikely to be conclusively demonstrable at this time, because I don't believe in modern times any company has ever tried it.07:23
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MentalistTraceurThey are, though (more than mindless buyers of the latest shiny). Or more accurately, they can be, if treated right. There are many flaws with humans, en-masse and as typical individuals, but I am not so cynical as to forget that all of those people are indeed people, with various feelings and ideas. I cannot count the number of times I have seen frustration from people over the fact that their device couldn't do what07:35
MentalistTraceurthey wanted, and a decent amount of the time, it is not necessary that it be so limited, it was only corporate selfish bottom-line pursuing that caused the maker of the thing in question to not bother, either to concieve of the possibility that someone might prefer the option, or to invest the time into adding it. I'll certainly agree that on average, especially in current cultures, users do for the most part mindlessl07:35
MentalistTraceury buy the latest shinies - but it's not like they're realistically ever given the opportunity to become anything else, because most devices focus on being just that - shinies. And sure, for every little choice you spend the time on enabling, only a handful of users will bo swayed. But if the rest of the system is good, and on top of that user choice is respected and enabled systematically in as many places as possible,07:35
MentalistTraceur it's inevitable that over time people would notice, that something they wanted to do, and couldn't on their other shinies, was not only possible, but relatively easy, on that one shiny. And sure, I could be wrong, and if I ever see sufficient evidence of that, I will change my views, but thus far, that has not been the case.07:35
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MentalistTraceurAlright, I imagine you are bored of this discussion, and I am getting very wordy.07:35
khmit's moot07:35
khmsince the market spake07:35
khmand lo, nobody paid07:36
MentalistTraceurThe market never spake, because it has never been done properly yet.07:36
khmpeople say that about tons of things07:36
khmit doesn't matter07:36
khmsocialism, kindness, charity, religion07:36
MentalistTraceurNo device has thus far enabled user choice without making it require above-average tech-savvy-ness.07:36
khm'never did it just right' where 'right' has approximated 'my way'07:37
MentalistTraceur(No religion, actually, I am very much a-religious, and don't consider it to be connected to the other three)07:37
khmthe flaw there is that desire for choice has tech-savvy as a build-time dependency07:37
MentalistTraceurExcept it doesn't, and therein is the flaw in your reasoning.07:37
khmyou never want a choice if you don't think you know better than the product engineer07:37
khmbut I'm not here to convince you07:38
khmbecause again, it's moot.07:38
khmwhen you find a company who wants to ship an xkb map editing gui on a telephone, let me know.  I'll send you a hundred dollars and make fun of them on twitter.07:38
MentalistTraceur*Shrug* K. If it ever happens, will do. Won't get my hopes up, but that's hardly sound proof in itself. One last note on the tech-savvy bit though: There's plenty of people who want thing X to do thing Y without being of the opinion that they can design the entirety of X better. E.g Windows users not liking the Start Menu going away, without having even minimal tech-savvy. In a sense, yes, they might think they are kno07:44
MentalistTraceurw better than the product engineer about whether there should be a start menu, but that's a conceptual difference, and does not depend on the capacity to program anything, or delve into system internals on the command-line. It just requires the concept of wanting the start menu.07:44
khm...which you learned about from previous tech experience.07:45
khmgot it.07:45
khmtotally consistent, nothing circular there.07:45
MentalistTraceurThere isn't, because again, that's not tech-experience of the not-needing-GUI form.07:46
khmyou're conflating tech experience with command-line usage?07:46
khmeesh, I'm out.07:46
MentalistTraceurNay, I am using command-line usage as the obvious alternative to a provided GUI.07:47
MentalistTraceurEditing system files and the like are others, but whatever.07:47
MentalistTraceurAnyway, if this ever interests you as a discussion topic again, by all means, bring it up. Though I suspect it will not, which fine by me as well.07:50
MentalistTraceurAnd on that note, I will be heading out. Have a good day/evening/whatever-time-it-is.07:51
* MentalistTraceur waves.07:51
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Sc0rpiusno repos, no builder :(07:53
Sc0rpiusno TMO mail updates07:53
khmdns changes can take a long time07:53
khmwhich means shaking out problems can take even longer07:54
khmit'll get there.07:54
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sgosiacoARe the repositories down for anyone?08:56
thedead1440sgosiaco: see /topic08:57
infobotmethinks mirror is
thedead1440sgosiaco: ^^^08:57
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Tekany idea when the dns server will be up ???13:29
freemangordonwhat DNS server?13:29
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TekThe DNS server for the repos13:33
Tekor is it just my n90013:33
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Tekrepo mirrors anywhere, link to ?13:50
infobotfrom memory, mirrors is Official Debian archive mirrors get an address of the form ftp://ftp.<country> These are the best advertised and most used sites; the face of Debian for most people. A list is available at
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is
kerioinfobot: #maemo mirrors is <reply>see mirror13:51
infobotokay, kerio13:51
infobotmirror is probably
Tekmaemo mirrors13:52
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Tekany news ???15:28
kerioTek: lance armstrong admitted to doping15:29
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XDS2010_Can someone help me fix all my repos15:39
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XDS2010_Dont even know where to begin its all one big mess15:42
keriozomg!1!115:43 is down15:44
NIN101is down?15:47
NIN101(joke :P)15:47
kerioNIN101: i'd say fuck off, but i can't ever be mad at you <315:49
XDS2010_someone needs to update that post15:50
XDS2010_last update says everything is sorted15:50
NIN101kerio :-)15:50
kerioXDS2010_: the TMO migration is sorted15:51
XDS2010_but is the migration complete ?15:51
XDS2010_and what will become of the .org domain ?15:51
kerioXDS2010_: is every service working at the moment?15:52
XDS2010_will we need to change repo addresses ?15:52
XDS2010_i picked a hell of a time to come back to maemo development15:52
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XDS2010_will we need to change repo addresses ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!15:52
tadzikcalm down, geez15:53
XDS2010_IS ANYONE HERE !?15:53
AoyagiNo more caffeine for you.15:53
tadzikit's good that you're shouting. Otherwise no one would notice that you're writing messages to a channel with 268 people15:53
XDS2010_HELLO !?15:54
Aoyagi6 in fact15:54
XDS2010_is this thing on!?15:54
ShadowJKXDS2010_; repos down waiting for dns changes by nokia. will return on old normal address15:54
XDS2010_ShadowJK:  ty15:54
ShadowJKthis is last I heard15:55
XDS2010_in other news my sleep cycle is all fubar15:56
XDS2010_and water bugs have invaded my kitchen15:56
keriothat might be the hallucinogens15:59
keriodrugs are bad, mmkay16:00
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Ultima_Fanhello, what's with the holdup on the repositories?16:22
keriowaiting for dns changes from nokia dnsmaster16:24
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thedead1440XDS2010_:  <-- Read it and implement it on your system16:31
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infoboti heard mirror is
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qwazixwtf is Pageant failed to answer challenge?18:01
qwazixtrying to ssh into N900 and getting this...18:01
khmcould be a bad command line or else a misconfigured server18:02
khmtry again with ssh -v18:03
qwazixhmm, from terminal I can get in fine18:04
qwazixit's filezilla that refuses to connect18:04
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qwazixkhm, thanks, it's probably key mismatch18:05
qwazixand terminal falls back to password18:06
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Ex-OpesaHi. Anyone uses Kasvopus on n900 here?18:14
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HtheBqwazix, ping18:31
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Estel_ShadowJK,  ping18:35
Estel_could I use your expertise about filesystems and flash for a while?18:35
Estel_I'm trying to tune filesystem to avoid those damn fsck-will-nuke-our-flash-filesystem errors18:36 the same time, tuning for max performance in case of our flash storage. EasyDebian partition (not file, obviously)* is my guinea pig18:36
kerioEstel_: tune2fs -i 0 -c 018:36
kerioor something18:36
Estel_now, to the question:18:37
kerioif you're worried about the actual NAND, then don't worry, ubifs doesn't even have a fsck18:37
Estel_in case of our flash storage, does data=ordered have any sence over data=writeback18:37
Estel_or data=journal18:38
Estel_AIUI, we don't want fsck to touch filesystem with a long stick, and rely on big journal18:38
Estel_(my ed partition got just messed up by fsck again, so I though that it's good moment to re-create it, prior to restoring, with correct options, at last, and modify mounting)18:39
massoudhi there, do you guys know what is the best way to install "less" on my n900 ?18:39
massoudthe armel deb from debian should work ?18:40
keriomassoud: sudo apt-get install less18:40
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massoudkerio: my sources.list doesnt find less18:40
kerioor busybox-power, but that's a bit weirder18:40
keriomassoud: it's in extras(-something)18:41
Estel_same question goes for barriers, as we're definitely battery powered - there is chance for crash, but rather not for complete, rapid power loss - we should be safe to do barrier=0 yep?18:41
keriobut the repos are down lately18:41
massoudkerio: yes thats what i figured out :(18:41
keriomassoud: use a mirror, i suppose18:41
Estel_massoud,  fear not, repos are down, but you can use tmo, what else you need? ;)18:42
ShadowJKEstel_; as for journal options, I'm not sure18:43
sq-oneanybody knows when the official software repositories will be available again?18:43
ShadowJKEstel_; barriers will severely slow things down I feel. As for performance, I'd investigate the raid stripe options, and tune for 64k/4M18:44
sq-onenevermind, saw the link above...18:44
ShadowJKEstel_; ext4 will perform much better I'm told18:44
ShadowJKi tried data=journal recently and it didn't impress18:44
ShadowJKalso, I think for file integrity, flash is more or less screwed whatever you do18:45
kerioShadowJK: how do you raid on the n900? :o18:45
ShadowJKi didnt say that18:45
ShadowJKext3 has options at mkfs time to give it hints about the underlying raid topology. We dont have raid, but in some ways the flash behaves somewhat similarily18:46
massoudkerio : excellent thanks, i wanted to use git-core on my n900 and less was missing ... now i can git log projects such as openbsc on my n90018:47
kerioi see18:47
keriomassoud: fwiw, extras-devel-light is a much better option18:47
Estel_ShadowJK,  so better to keep data=writeback for performance, or data=ordered may force things to be less screwed, a little (by forcing writing to filesystem before journal commit)?18:47
massoudi wish we could retrieve layer2,3 messages of gsm stacks on the n90018:47
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massoudmd2bus gives some dbus messages but not actual layer2,3 messages18:48
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Estel_ShadowJK,  excuse my ignorance, how to setup raid stripes properly on N900? wihout creating real raid? we're talking about ext4 here, of course18:48
ShadowJKwell nokia used writeback, so dunno :)18:49
kerioi'd say nobarrier data=writeback commit=600, because we're on battery18:49
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Estel_kerio, isn't ext4 accepting commit as seconds, not miliseconds?18:52
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kerio10 minutes18:52
Estel_commit=600 = 10 minutes seems a little out of place18:52
Estel_in case of crash, being on battery won't save us from losing data from last 10 minutes, no fun18:53
keriocrash of what?18:53
kerioa kernel panic?18:53
Estel_for example18:53
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keriowhat else?18:53
keriohm, do watchdog reboots go through the kernel?18:54
Estel_I dont thing changing it from 30 seconds to 10 minutes makes any performance difference, although, I may be wrong18:54
Estel_from 5 seconds to 30 yes, but more is rather numerelogy, isn't it?18:55
Estel_as for watchdog, no idea18:55
Estel_ShadowJK,  have you tried those raid stripes on N900 yourself?18:56
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ShadowJKmkfs has options for it18:57
* Estel_ nods18:57
Estel_searching for approriate options re ext4, now18:58
keriohm, why are in /usr/sbin?18:58
Estel_any comment on our commit seconds discussion?18:58
ShadowJKnokia picked commit=1, and also tweaked vm to begin writing back early, so that we dont get massive stalls when huge amount of data would wait in ram and be written out in a burst18:58
kerioShadowJK: that's more or less irrelevant if you have the swap on usd, right?18:59
Estel_funny enough, to make swap more usable and stable (proven, real-life tested) we need to make it as big burst as possible :P19:00
Estel_but filesystem is not swap, after all19:00
kerioShadowJK: won't home and swap being on different devices avoid those stalls?19:00
Estel_you know what I mean on the above, despite it's being mental shortcut :P19:01
ShadowJKwell.. swap on fremantle, before fragmentation sets in, is sequential.. with good cards able to keep 5 AU's open simultaneously, we could in theory write to swap, and *a* file simultaneously without speed penalty19:01
ShadowJKwith the best known cards, and no swap, we could do like 3 files without penalty!19:01
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ShadowJKSo I gather the aim was to trickle files to storage instead of trying to update 600 files all at once every 10 minutes19:02
Estel_64k/4m stripe apply to ext4 as much as ext3?19:05
DocScrutinizer05at openmoko we had a performance optimization team which did weeks and months of tests and tweaking. I guess Nokia most likely did same, alas afaik all that never got public, neither the design goal specs nor any results of tests nor the consequences taken from those. So we're doomed to go thru all that again. So much for FOSS development in huge companies19:06
ShadowJKEstel_; yeah it's just a handwave guess of the flash properties19:07
ShadowJKTomTom publishes results of their "repeatedly forcible remove SD card while writing to card", iirc19:08
ShadowJKbasically only vfat gave vaguely safe results19:08
DocScrutinizer05KISS approach19:09
keriosurely ext4 with data=journal is safe by design19:09
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keriohm, maybe not, nobody knows what SDs do19:09
Estel_surely it isn't ;)19:09
DocScrutinizer05some of us have a certain idea of a few details of what an SD is doing internally19:10
ShadowJKAt best, ext* assumes 4k blocks like recent HDs have.. on flash the blocksize is essentially unknown, but modern day SDs have empirically been determined to have 4M, 6M, 8M, 12M blocksizes.. if block is halfwritten on powerloss, worst case entire block is garbage, best case you get an old version of it, or then a mix :)19:11
DocScrutinizer05and if kswapd also had those ideas, it would benefit swap performance a friggin lot19:11
kerioShadowJK: can't you specify a certain block size?19:11
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; the fremantle swap is quite close, it's only missing gc19:11
ShadowJKkerio; no it's a physical/electrical property of the flash19:12
keriono, i mean, to extfs19:12
ShadowJKwell the choices are 2k or 4k, iirc.19:12
DocScrutinizer05aka man mkfs19:13
ShadowJKthis is why I suggested using the raid options, as raids have some similar properties such as too small write triggering read-modify-write19:13
Estel_no way, even the blast vfat have more choices of block sizes19:13
ShadowJKWell also using a 12M filesystem blocksize would mean storing a 3 byte file would use up 12M of space19:14
DocScrutinizer05-b block-size19:14
DocScrutinizer05              Specify  the  size  of  blocks in bytes.  Valid block-size values are 1024, 2048 and 4096 bytes per block.19:14
DocScrutinizer05took me like 13.5s19:15
Estel_,and what? it doesn't help us in any way, + what ShadowJK said.19:15
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-19 18:13:43] <Estel_> no way, even the blast vfat have more choices of block sizes  --  ANd WHAT?!19:16
Estel_ShadowJK,  I'll test that raid stripes empirically19:16
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  out of context ;)19:16
Estel_more = bigger than 4096 bytes19:17
Estel_<ShadowJK> well the choices are 2k or 4k, iirc.19:17
Estel_DocScrutinizer05>               Specify  the  size  of  blocks in bytes.  Valid block-size values are 1024, 2048 and 4096 bytes per block.19:17
Estel_= same, except for 1k addition in the latter19:17
DocScrutinizer05exactly, while your rant been mere bogus19:18
Estel_I'm not the one ranting about reading fuckin manual ;) back on track, please?19:18
DocScrutinizer05you're the one posting nonsense19:19
Estel_ShadowJK,  any ideas about modyfing buffer heads options to acompany data=writeback, and it's feasibility?19:21
Estel_bh is default option, while nobbh sounds more sensible for data=writeback19:21
Estel_quoting, ""nobh" option tries to avoid associating buffer heads, (supported only for "writeback" mode."19:23
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Estel_last but not least, ShadowJK, there is also mount-time option "stripe=", which seems to be doing same thing. Any comment on differencies between using this and mkfs-time one? that was last question, I promise ;)19:25
kerionobh is deprecated, afaik19:26
Estel_hm, for what reasons? it's still in kernel documentation for mount ext419:27
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keriowhich kernel?19:31
ShadowJKEstel_; buffer heads options? what are those19:31
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DocScrutinizer05less /etc/mke2fs.conf19:32
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Estel_ext4 associate (or associated, if it's really depreciated) buffer heads to either cache disk block mapping information, or link pages into transaction (if -bh) or19:34
Estel_whatever ikt means19:34
Estel_-nobh means that it tries to avoid associating buffer heads19:35
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keriono, i think the issue was that you still had buffer heads, even with -nobh19:36
Estel_ShadowJK,  mayday, but I'm ignorant about proper options for our "raid" in mkfs time, should I use:19:38
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Estel_or stripe-width19:39
ShadowJKset -b 4096 to be sure, then stride 16, stripe-width 4M/4k, whatever that works out to19:41
Estel_ough, how should it look for your example? stride=64 and stripe-width=409619:41
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if email notifications of edits on wiki are broken too. could some nice soul test it please?19:42
ShadowJKin units of fs blocksize, so 1 = 4k, 16 = 16*4k = 64k19:42
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Estel_thanks a lot19:42
DocScrutinizer05also who the heck are our wiki admins?19:42
Estel_now it's understood19:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: were admins nominated?19:42
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I guess somebody instantiated some admins/mods for wiki19:44
DocScrutinizer05like andre__ is for bugs19:44
DocScrutinizer05I'd really like to see all this documented somewhere19:45
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DocScrutinizer05if it's only a matter of me looking at the right location to see it, please toss a pointer to that page. Otherwise all info welcome, so I can aggregate it19:47
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DocScrutinizer05andre__: could you check if everything back to normal from your POV, please.19:48
SuperpelicanHello everyone, trying to reflash my N900 (eMMC & Combined, yes I've already read the wiki page), but I keep getting this error: "Error claiming USB Interface: Device or resource busy"19:51
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SuperpelicanI'm using openSUSE 12.2 64 bit and I already blacklisted cdc_phonet and phonet19:53
SuperpelicanAlso already tried all my USB ports (3)19:53
Superpelicantried starting flasher-3.5 with sudo and with plain su19:53
Superpelican(as root)19:54
DocScrutinizer05Superpelican: hmm, apart from you picked a really bad moment to do that reflash, due to migration killed repos temporarily, I can't see anything you missed to try19:57
qwazixSuperpelican, do you have ia-32libs?19:58
DocScrutinizer05oooh 64 bit19:58
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ShadowJKDoes the 900 display usb-connected icon..20:00
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, have to go.20:02
Estel_ShadowJK,  picked up 100MB journal for 3GB filesystem, it should be enough to tell fsck to fckd out, do ya think? :P20:02
Estel_at least as much as it is possible20:03
ShadowJKI'd pick largest possible journal20:04
Estel_it's 400 MB20:04
Estel_doesnt sound like a little waste out of 3GB partition?20:05
ShadowJKmaybe :)20:05
Estel_or I'm missing something?20:05
ShadowJKif you're experimenting and benchmarking perf, also try nilfs2 :)20:05
ShadowJKyou might have to compile the utilities for it though :/20:05
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Superpelicanqwazix:looks like there is no ia32-libs for opensuse :(20:13
Superpelicanqwazix:but I did install 32 bit libusb20:13
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qwazixHmmm... Never used opensuse but on 64bit ubuntu installing ia32 is needed20:14
qwazixthough I'm not sure that is the exact message when missing20:14
Superpelicanwell I can try flashing with my Xubuntu netbook20:16
Superpelicanand of course install ia32 on the netbook20:16
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qwazixSuperpelican, you have a amd64 distro on a netbook?20:18
qwazix(I've read that newer atoms support x64 but my lenovo refuses to install x64 distros)20:18
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Superpelicanqwazix: yes, 64 bit, Asus Eee PC 1005PE (although I'm not sure if it was that exact type, but at least a 1005 series)with Atom N450, 1 GB20:26
Superpelicanin fact I'm installing ia32-libs and all of it's 244 mb dependencies on the netbook20:27
qwazixSuperpelican, same processor of my S10-3T, wonder why the different reaction to x6420:28
Superpelicanqwazix:read that it has something to do with the motherboard20:28
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Superpelicanqwazix:Manufacturers block x64 via the motherboard on purpose20:29
Superpelicanqwazix:Not all, but some20:29
qwazixhate crippleware20:29
ShadowJKThe first generation atom also had x64-enabled CPUs :)20:29
Superpelicanqwazix, ShadowJK:I believe it does not have anything to do with the CPUs20:29
SuperpelicanIt's the motherboards20:30
ShadowJKYes, some genuinely don't have x6420:30
ShadowJKthe original netbook-atom didn't, but the desktop version of same cpu had it20:30
Superpelicandon't understand why installing ia32-libs automatically pulls in stuff like 32 bit gtk2, vorbis encoder etc.20:31
SuperpelicanIs it installing a complete 32 bit copy of my system or something?20:31
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GearHi, can someone please tell me the working n900 repositories?20:32
ShadowJKtbh I dont thik flasher would even execute if you didnt have libs already20:32
ShadowJKYou do have flasher-3.5, right20:32
Skryiirc I had to run it as root under Arch to make it flash properly20:33
GearI'm using cssu stable but I'm not sure the repository is in there.. and extras, extras testing... are there any others?20:33
ShadowJKextras* isn't working right now20:33
Gearyou mean temporarily?20:34
infobotrumour has it, mirror is
ShadowJKGear;yes temporarily20:34
SuperpelicanYay, it's flashing my N900 :D20:34
Gearas in the next few hours or longer?20:34
SuperpelicanConclusion:It seems that indeed the lack of ia32-libs etc was causing the flash problem20:34
Gearok, but what are the repositories that work from now on20:35
Gearsince there is no official nokia support anymore20:35 WILL come back, just not during the weekend20:35
Gearso which ones should I have in my app manager?20:36
ShadowJKHopefully nokia dnsmaster wakes up on monday and performs the requested changes20:36
qwazixSuperpelican, yay!20:36
ShadowJKDunno, random people have personal mirrors, but I don't renmember the details for anyone.. maybe search tmo20:36
GearI can wait, which ones should I have in there from now on?20:37
Superpelicannow flashing rootfs/combined :)20:37
ShadowJKuhm, same as before?20:37
GearI have like fremantle ssu apps, ssu mr0, 1.2 ovi, extras, and extras testing20:38
ShadowJKsounds fine20:38
Gearthose all work?20:38
Lava_CroftGear: look at topic, first link in it:)20:38
Gearwait, I'm not really interested in the mirrors20:39
SuperpelicanN900 rebooting, now I only have to install CSSU and for the first time KernelPower ;)20:40
Lava_CroftI don't get why the poster assumes every device tries to update once a day20:40
GearI just mean the ones that permanently work now20:40
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Lava_Croftif you really need to update now, you need a mirror, if you don't, then i guess you can wait until repos are back up20:40
GearI can wait a few days until they work20:40
Lava_CroftSame here:)20:40
Gearcan you quickly tell me which repositories work?20:40
Lava_CroftThe Nokia ones20:41
Lava_Croftthe ones don't20:41
freemangordonSuperpelican: I am not sure you'll be able to install CSSU right now, repo, you know :)20:41
GearI mean... like 201320:41
Geardo I delete fremantle ssu mr0 and 1.2 ovi ?20:41
Lava_Croftthere is basically no need to delete anything, if im correct20:42
freemangordonyou can't delete them, only disable20:42
Lava_Croftjust wait until the repos are back up20:42
Gearum I think I deleted them from the hildon app manager20:42
freemangordonthink again20:42
GearI need to put the cssu one in fapman20:42
infobotit has been said that fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever20:43
freemangordonGear: And DON'T USE FAPMAN FOR SYSTEM UPDATES20:43
Gearyeah true20:43
Sc0rpiusthat advice is better than the infobot's20:43
tadzikthat's not even easy to do, is it20:43
Lava_Croftstick to fapman for 'simple' installing of apps etc20:43
Sc0rpiusfapman is great for single apps, but definitely might cause issues for system updates20:43
Lava_Croftnot for important stuff20:43
Superpelicanfreemangordon:When will the repo's be completely up again?20:44
freemangordonNFC, I guess in the upcoming week20:44
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GearI deleted some from app manager I think20:45
freemangordonyou can't delete Nokia repos20:45
GearI mean disabled20:45
freemangordondelete != disable ;)20:45
merlin1991freemangordon: you can, with 1337 haxx ;)20:45
GearI disabled some20:45
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Gearmozilla multi catalogue works?20:46
freemangordonmerlin1991: well, I guess I can rm -rf / too :D20:46
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Gearnokia applications, nokia system software updates, ovi, mozilla multi catalog..... which ones no longer work?20:47
Estel_freemangordon,  do you, by any chances, read maemo-developers mailing list?20:47
Estel_or used to do, when mailing list worked?20:48
Gearand ovi works?20:48
freemangordon<Gear> can you quickly tell me which repositories work?20:48
freemangordon<Lava_Croft> The Nokia ones20:48
freemangordon<Lava_Croft> the ones don't20:48
Gearsorry I'm just trying to sort out hildon app man20:48
freemangordonEstel_: yeah, I read it when it works :D20:48
Gearas it's the important one20:48
freemangordonEstel_: I vaguely remember a mail from you20:49
Estel_freemangordon,  any use for those qf9700 modules I've submitted there?20:49
freemangordonlemme check20:49
Estel_yea ;)20:49
freemangordonaah, i remember now20:49
Gearare there any other repositories which I should put in there?20:49
Estel_sure thing, just wanted to be sure it haven't ended in /dev/null by mistake20:49
freemangordonGear: what are you trying to do?20:49
freemangordonEstel_: no idea, if someone buys such a device, maybe :)20:50
Gearjust disable the repositories that don't work, and put any useful repositories that do in there20:50
freemangordonGear: what for?20:50
Estel_freemangordon,  I meant chances to include modules in KP20:50
Gearfor software20:50
Estel_I *know* that module work20:50
Gearand I'm using cssu20:50
freemangordonEstel_: didn't checked, but I see no reason why not20:50
Estel_thanks :)20:51
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freemangordonthough I guess it will take a while. We need that autobuider/repo mess sorted out20:51
Estel_afaik it just need compiling against kp headers and you know, regular inclusion20:51
Gearso ovi doesn't work and nokia* doesn't either20:51
SuperpelicanUh oh, the main reason that I reflashed my N900 was that the repo's didn't refresh anymore20:51
SuperpelicanBut now I suddenly understand why20:51
merlin1991Superpelican: hrhr20:51
SuperpelicanIt was the phone...20:52
freemangordonSuperpelican: smart ;)20:52
Estel_I'll be happy if it end up in kernel as of 201320:52
merlin1991Superpelican: use one of the mirrors ;)20:52
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is
freemangordonmerlin1991: did anyone fix the hash mismatch error?20:52
merlin1991afaik my mirror has no hash mismatch20:52
GearI don't need to put a mirror in20:52
SuperpelicanOh well I was also planning to install KernelPower some day but I had that special bootloader by Stskeeps installed for booting Nemo Mobile and Cordia20:52
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merlin1991if it has somebody please slap me and I'll fix it20:52
Estel_considering that autobuilder/cobs/repo mess will probably take half a year, *if* there still be anyone interested after, I'll be glad and thankful to see this module in kp as of 2013 :D20:53
merlin1991Superpelican: you can use the latest u-boot from Pali for that20:53
Gearare there some repositories that I might not know of?20:53
SuperpelicanYeah, but read about lot's problems with U-Boot from Pali20:53
freemangordonEstel_: naah, once we have the control, I guess it will be fixed in 1-2 weeks20:53
merlin1991atm it's fine20:53
Paliit is in extras-devel20:53
merlin1991there used to be problems20:53
ShadowJKGear; afaik ovi repo works20:53
Paliother old versions of u-boot has problems20:54
Estel_freemangordon,  hope so ;)20:54
GearI know about extras, testing, and devel (I disable devel)20:54
freemangordonEstel_: come on :)20:54
Gearare there any others that I don't know of?20:54
freemangordonGear: you may want to disable -testing too20:54
Gearthat have some good stuff20:54
GearI use some software from that20:55
freemangordonSure, but don;t keep it enabled20:55
freemangordonenable it when you really need to20:55
Gearwhy not?20:55
Estel_freemangordon,  Pali, btw I've just come across things from 2.6.37 kernel, that could benefit our filesystem performance a much...20:55
freemangordonGear: read the wiki article what extras-testing and extras-devel are20:55
Estel_and I'm not sure if it was backported20:56
Estel_take a look at this quotation, please:20:56
Gearyeah I know what they are, a lot of things are still in testing20:56
freemangordonEstel_: Pali is on 3.8 already :D:D:D20:56
PaliEstel_, we are using 3.8-rc320:56
Pali.37 is old20:56
Geardoes it really slow the phone down if I have testing enabled?20:56
freemangordonyou can bet20:56
ShadowJKi guess estel means backport those things from .37 to pk?20:56
Superpelicanmerlin1991:Your mirror also includes maemo-extra?20:57
freemangordonShadowJK: ofc, I am kidding him :)20:57
Gearwhy does extras testing need to be disabled?20:57
Estel_it's quote from this interesting and long document:20:57
merlin1991Superpelican: look at the page ;) it's cssu cssu-testing extras and extras-devel20:58
Gearthe apps I use most are actually from testing20:58
Superpelicanmerlin1991:get 404 not found when refresing your repo20:58
merlin1991Superpelican: use one of the subfolders ;)20:58
PaliEstel_, I understood that this is in upstream kernel20:58
Paliso is included in 3.8 already20:58
Estel_considering how our flash media like barriers, and that disabling barriers doesnt work anymore, replacing 4thlvl barrier with emopty one as per fixes from 2.6.37 might be very beneficial20:58
Estel_Pali,  yes20:59
freemangordonEstel_: sounds very dangerous to me20:59
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Estel_but as ShadowJK said, I mean backporting it to KP20:59
freemangordon"In fact, the responsibility for safe request ordering has been completely moved to filesystems. "20:59
Gearif I disable extras testing will it actually make a lot of difference?20:59
ShadowJKthis barriers thing is mostly irrelevant for sd20:59
Superpelicanmerlin1991:What's the "community" subfolder?21:00
merlin1991cssu stable21:00
freemangordonGear: try it, I have NFC what "a lot of difference" means to you21:00
Estel_irrelevant as in "disable it as it only kills performance for no benefit", or as in "doesn't matter at all"?21:00
Estel_ShadowJK,  ^21:00
freemangordonas in "does not matter"21:00
Gearkills how much performance?21:00
Gearand my most useful stuff is from testing still... like modrana and pierogi and some others21:01
Estel_so explicit flushes and FUA requests instead of barriers are not enough as in dangerous?21:01
Superpelicanmerlin1991:I shouldn't add cssu repo manually right? Installing the CSSU installer package will automatically do that, right?21:01
merlin1991yep, but it adds the other repo21:01
merlin1991which errm does not exist :D21:01
freemangordonEstel_: I don;t know if filesystems in 2.6.28 will work correctly if we apply this patch21:01
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freemangordonthus "dangerous"21:02
ShadowJKEstel_; kills perf for no benefit I would say21:02
GearI was hoping someone had made an archery app21:02
Estel_it is related to ext4 only, because ext3 doesnt have barriers21:02
Estel_by default21:03
Superpelicanmerlin1991:So I should install the CSSU installer, then delete the cssu repo and add the mirror "community" repo manually?21:03
Estel_freemangordon,  so, I don't see how it could affect other filesystems, i.e. default maemo ones21:03
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Estel_and as ShadowJK said, barriers are PITA for us, hurting performance, without ensuring file integrity, anyway21:03
ShadowJKnew barriers are probably just as pointless too21:04
freemangordonEstel_: without the patch in front of me I can't tell more (and maybe even with the patch in front of me :) )21:04
Estel_thats why I've mentioned it as worth looking into21:04
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freemangordonEstel_: not to say that first thing we should do is a kernel in cssu21:05
Superpelicanmerlin1991:adding <yourmirrorurl>/extras results in a "hash sum mismatch" error21:05
ShadowJKAlso, I'm not sure if barriers are supported on mmc :)21:05
Estel_it won't improve integrity of files, but wont hurt them too, gaining performance (in optimistic scenario)21:05
freemangordons/first/the first/21:05
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ShadowJKEstel_; currently barriers aren't used, so there'd be no performance gain?21:05
Gear_so I should disabe extras testing until I need it, are there any repositories I dont' know about that have cool things in them?21:06
freemangordonqwazix: ping21:07
Estel_ShadowJK,  in ext4, they're used21:07
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Estel_by default21:07
Estel_and ext4 gains quite a lot re our flash storage and performance21:07
Estel_without barriers, it could add more21:07
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ShadowJKmakes more sense to mount with nobarrier then :)21:07
Gear_is ext4 windows compatible?21:07
Estel_doesnt work21:07
freemangordonGear_: no21:08
kerioGear_: not even close21:08
Estel_nobarriers doesnt work without that path afaik21:08
Gear_poop, I have to transfer pictures to windows computers21:08
Estel_with it it doesnt work too :P21:08
kerioat best you get a fairly decent read-only mode with external drivers21:08
freemangordonGear_: relax, you don;t have ext4 on your device21:08
Estel_but uses other, less performance hurting method21:08
Gear_I don't? I use power kernel and cssu stable21:08
Gear_so I dunno.21:08
freemangordonso you don't21:09
Gear_okely dokely21:09
Estel_kernel-power supports ext4, but ou need to create it manually, if you want to have it21:09
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Gear_and then I'll lose windows plug and play21:09
Estel_nope ;)21:09
Estel_it's different thing21:09
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freemangordonGear_: we are talking rootfs here (i guess) not your MyDocs partition21:10
Estel_you're talking about mydocs which is plug and pl.ay container21:10
Estel_no rootfs too21:10
Estel_home ;)21:10
freemangordonEstel_: aah, yes21:10
Estel_rootfs is ubifs and i wont change it with a long stick21:10
* freemangordon is stupid today21:10
Gear_is converting difficult?21:10
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freemangordonGear_: yes21:10
Gear_I can probably do without it then21:11
freemangordonAFAIK only a couple of people did it21:11
Gear_how do I clear all the unused crap from my device21:11
ShadowJKext4 has barrier option just like ext3, are you saying passing barrier=0 to ext4 has no effect?21:11
Estel_to be absolutely honest (and very *not* politically right) it's easy as a piece of cake, but still, only a dozens of people or so use it21:12
* freemangordon is tempted to give Gear_ vi's medicine :D21:12
Estel_ShadowJK,  now I'm not sure anymore. I'm sure that -nobh option doesn't work at mkfs time21:12
Estel_but nobarrier at mount time21:12
Gear_would I see a performance increase if I did use ext4 wherever you're talking about?21:13
kerioi was thinking of disabling the ubifs compression21:13
Estel_should work, me think, which would nullify need for "my" patch21:13
freemangordonkerio: do we have so much free space already?21:13
keriomaybe you don't, but i do21:13
Estel_are you taunting freemangordon ? :P21:13
freemangordonaah, yes, you've removed "nokia hands" video :P21:13
Gear_I don't have a hell of a lot of free rootfs or optfs space left21:13
kerioand optified /var/lib/dpkg, /var/lib/apt, locale-archives, /usr/lib/gcc21:14
freemangordonEstel_: no, he is just trolling me :)21:14
Gear_I disabled extras testing but it didn't say "blah blah cleared"21:14
freemangordonkerio: good for you that you've optified /var/lib/apt21:14
Estel_Gear_,  ext4 benefits performance quite a lot, but unless you correct swap settings, and do other many things like reading a wiki, you won't see any gain due to "crap on yourf device" ;)21:14
Gear_there is only stuff I use, but I'm not sure how to check for stuff I don't use or things that are left over from... things I'm unaware of21:15
Estel_freemangordon,  I rather meant kerio teasing you by "maybe yoiu don't, but I do"21:15
freemangordonkerio: it seems you did that on my device too :P21:15
kerioreally, i remember doing that21:15
freemangordonas my /var/lib/apt is optified too21:15
keriooh well21:16
Estel_Gear_,  eat red pill and get to know what is happening on your device. Reading wiki - starting in "beginners" section - helps a lot21:16
freemangordonand i DON'T remember doing that :)21:16
keriothen i didn't optify that21:16
Estel_ if it does work21:16
freemangordonit works21:16
freemangordonlast time i've checked21:16
Gear_Estel I'll do that but not straight away, I'm just quickly seeing which repositories work and which don't anymore21:16
Estel_nice to hear, I'm out of loop what does and doesn't work in this [strike]titanic[/strike] queen mary 2 anymore21:17
Gear_and "syncing" fapman and normal app man21:17
kerioi've got 243M used on /21:17
freemangordonkerio: nice21:17
Gear_I thought nokia has discontinued any support21:17
kerio(uncompressed 243M, i mean)21:17
freemangordonkerio: you're on the edge AIUI21:18
kerioyeah, i'd have to optify a lot more things21:18
Gear_and the nokia repositories were still enabled21:18
freemangordonGear_: Nokia support was non-existant for the last... 2 years or so21:18
qwazixfreemangordon: pong21:18
freemangordonqwazix: what is that "missing symbol"?21:19
Estel_freemangordon,  s/anymore/or doesn't anymore/21:19
keriofreemangordon: do you reckon microb-engine can be optified?21:19
Gear_rootfs 73/227mb free opt 1240/2015 mb free21:19
qwazixsome garbled things and then hildonPlugin21:19
qwazixnot @pc atm21:19
Gear_is that bad?21:19
kerioGear_: sudo du -hsx /21:19
qwazixread that might be version mismatch21:19
kerioubifs compression is *magic*!21:20
freemangordonqwazix: aah,ok.21:20
Gear_kerio what does that do?21:20
Estel_magic, as he said21:20
qwazixbut I tried running on simulator and got the same thing so probably not21:20
kerioGear_: actual data on /, without displaying the subdirectories, with the appropriate unit of measure, and without crossing filesystem boundaries21:21
freemangordonqwazix: well, I can try to help if you post the "garbled symbols" somewhere21:21
qwazixand also marxian has the same problem21:21
freemangordonyeah, saw that21:21
Gear_I'm using fapman to try to clear out the extras testing stuff left behind21:21
Gear_and what's so bad about fapman?21:22
qwazixokay I'm at the movies now so I'll post that later. It'something like    undefined symbol: Zcx_jdHildonPlugin21:22
freemangordonqwazix: no hurry21:22
Estel_Gear_,  honestly, nothing is bad about fapman, just don't use it for cssu updates21:22
Gear_I know that much21:22
qwazixfreemangordon, thanks. Talk later.21:22
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Estel_or, do like me, and use it for everything, but be prepared to know how to fix things if something goes wrong without crying for help on cssu developers21:23
Gear_that sudo du -hsx / is asking for a password21:23
Estel_not that something went wrong at all in my years of using it, but it's not supported way of updaing cssu21:23
freemangordonkerio: don;t tell him :P21:23
freemangordonGear_: try without sudo21:24
Estel_password starts with rm -fr, I suppose... Nah, just joking21:24
Gear_I never use fapman for important stuff21:24
keriofreemangordon: permission error, probably21:24
freemangordonkerio: missing rootsh probably21:24
Gear_can't open anything, permission denied21:24
freemangordonor df is not sudoer21:24
Gear_sould I go sudo gainroot21:24
Estel_important varies - for some, cutetube for watching porn is most important stuff on device21:25
kerioGear_: do you have rootsh installed?21:25
Gear_I have power kernel whatever21:25
kerioEstel_: i tried that, but i couldn't get it to work21:25
Estel_it's about not using it for system updates (cssu is considered system update)21:25
Gear_and cssu21:25
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kerioGear_: can you get a root shell somehow?21:25
Gear_sudo gainroot?21:25
freemangordonGear_: just type "root" without quotes21:25
keriowell, launch "du -hsx /" as root in some way21:25
freemangordonand be veeery careful what you do, double-check your commands21:26
Gear_what does that mean21:26
freemangordonyour root filesystme usage21:26
Gear_how much is there in total?21:26
kerioGear_: that you have 294MB stored in your occupied 154MB21:27
freemangordonrootfs uses compression21:27
freemangordonso it is using 154MB to store 294MB21:27
Estel_303.7MB. He's bette than me :(21:28
kerioalso, aiui ubi volumes autoexpand a bit21:28
Gear_how much space is there in total21:28
kerioso you might get a bit more21:28
freemangordonGear_: ~252MB21:28
Gear_how do you know it's using 154mb21:28
kerioGear_: you said so!21:29
freemangordon21:16 <Gear_> rootfs 73/227mb free opt 1240/2015 mb free21:29
Gear_oh. right.21:29
Estel_probably ~227-7321:29
freemangordonooh, why 227?21:29
freemangordonkerio: ^^^21:29
kerio<kerio> also, aiui ubi volumes autoexpand a bit21:29
Estel_well, in my case it's 22821:30
Gear_I'm looking for some cool eyecandy visualisation stuff21:30
freemangordonkerio: can't parse21:30
Estel_same here, honestly21:30
keriomine too, but that's probably due to rounding errors21:30
Estel_what autoexpand?21:30
Estel_like sigil in toment?21:30
kerioEstel_: yes, precisely like that21:30
* freemangordon is lost21:30
kerioor maybe not21:30
kerioubifs will try using more space as you start running out21:31
kerioi noticed that on the sheevaplug too21:31
Estel_when you're constrained, try to expand. Logical.21:31
Gear_hey I have pwnie express on my spare mint phone21:31
kerioit's especially noticeable when your rootfs fills up21:31
freemangordonkerio: do you know the exact partition size?21:31
keriobecause you've added too many torrents and the fucking transmission info directory is in /var/lib21:31
Estel_freemangordon,  I think both of us need to read manual on ubifs21:31
Gear_how can I format that to swap all this stuff over, this phone is falling apart and nearly dead21:31
freemangordonGear_: reflash21:32 i don't get what he is saying about, too21:32
infobotEstel_ meant: i don't get what he is speaking about, too21:32
kerioGear_: install backupmenu, make a full backup, reflash your other phone, install backupmenu there, load the backup21:32
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Estel_and experience attack of clones21:33
Gear_my imei number will change21:33
freemangordonit wont21:33
Gear_if I flash the other phone?21:33
kerioGear_: no21:34
Gear_and transfer everything then use that as my phone, and this as my toy?21:34
keriothe IMEI is stored in the rapuyama CAL, so there's no way to change that21:34
Gear_but it'll go to whatever the other phone is21:34
kerioGear_: restoring a backupmenu backup will give you an exact copy of your current phone21:34
Gear_I'm not sure I want that, there might be crap on here that I don't actually need21:34
Estel_unles connecting few cables here and there and electroducing it while submerge in liquid nitrogen21:34
Estel_Gear_,  jokes aside21:35
Estel_first - go and read wiki21:35
freemangordonmake sure you have the correct kernel preinstalled21:35
Gear_I wouldn't mind doing a "fresh install" unless there's no point21:35
infobotmethinks maemo-flashing is
Estel_do full reflash, install kernel-power, then reformat partition layout as per wiki21:35
kerioSecondly, did you choose a good value for vol_size or enable autoresize in your ubinize configuration? It is possible that your UBI volume is not utilising the full space of the available flash.21:35
keriofreemangordon: do you have 252M used?21:35
kerio252M in your reported size21:36
keriohow much?21:36
Estel_Gear_,  changing partition layout is best done as early as possible21:36
freemangordonkerio: 305.6M21:36
Estel_then, while doing it, you may also decide to change (or not) home filesystem to ext421:36
Gear_changing to what21:36
kerioi mean what df -h reports as "Size"21:36
freemangordonrootfs                  227.9M    163.9M     59.8M  73% /21:36
keriosame as me21:36
Estel_Gear_,  again, first read wiki21:36
Gear_I'm not very good with linux21:36
Estel_it's quite useless to copy instructions from there to here, on irc21:37
Estel_thats why ik said read wiki21:37
freemangordonGear_: are you good on reading?21:37
Gear_yes I am thanks for asking21:37
Gear_I have the opportunity to pick up a new in box n900 for 100 bucks21:37
freemangordonthere is "beginners section" exactly for "not good with linux" guys21:37
Estel_rootfs 227.6M here21:38
Gear_would you guys grab that21:38
Estel_unless it's from hong-kong, yes21:38
Estel_without second thought21:38
kerioGear_: like a priest would grab a choir boy's butt21:38
Gear_it's another phone I don't really need, but I plan on using an n900 until they're so dead they don't do anything21:39
Gear_there's no other phone I like21:39
freemangordonGear_: the you definitely should start reading ;)21:39
Gear_android is so shitty21:39
Gear_and I will never own an apple product21:39
Estel_Gear_,  no worries, at beginning, kerio was as irritating as you21:39
Estel_but he started reading21:40
Estel_and see where he ended now21:40
Estel_talking about barriers, ubifs, and whatsnot21:40
Estel_are you sure you want end like that? :P21:40
Gear_and choir boys butts21:40
freemangordonEstel_: since when kerio is not irritating? :P21:40
Estel_instead of you know, getting girls with new iphone?21:40
Estel_freemangordon,  ;)21:40
kerioi was a long-time linux user though21:40
Gear_I managed to stream video through wifi21:41
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Gear_that's the most I've done with linux21:41
Estel_no worries, as next step wifi would stream you over video21:41
Gear_I'm making a kite that can drop things on people usi9ng HEN21:42
Estel_you want to use usb cable as kite line?21:42
Gear_no, to enable a little solenoid21:42
kerioi wouldn't do that, the musb port is really flaky21:42
Estel_freemangordon,  what, no one said my sense of humour is sensible today  :P21:42
Gear_and to stream the video back to a netbook21:42
Estel_Gear_,  for that -* ad now seriously...21:43
Gear_so I can see who I'm dropping stuff on21:43
Estel_yopu use OpenPilot21:43
freemangordonEstel_: we still can't believe it :P21:43
Gear_what's openpilot21:43
Estel_and it's software is available for maemo21:43
Estel_google openpilot21:43
Estel_i.e. not that it's made by google21:43
Estel_just google for it21:43
Gear_can it enable the host mode and trigger a little 5v thing to drop stuff on people?21:44
Estel_then, you steer your airplane, zeppelin, or whatsnot over wifi or 3G or...21:44
Gear_kite, it's stationary21:44
kerioGear_: if you just need the 5v, then it's even easier21:44
Estel_as long as it doesn't use more than 200mA, yes21:44
keriowell, yes21:44
freemangordondo it with a battery21:44
freemangordondon;t break USB port on your n90021:45
Gear_I shouldn't need a relay21:45
freemangordonsure, a simple switch will work for you21:45
andre__DocScrutinizer05, looks fine to me. Search works, I can access attachments, so I think it's fine.21:45
Gear_actually I might if I need to light a fuse21:45
Gear_using nichrome21:45
kerioGear_: do you have access to a soldering iron and a steady hand?21:45
Gear_yes I do21:46
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Estel_Gear_, why doing it over hen? use bluetooth and bkuetooth-to-serial adaptor21:46
Gear_screw that21:46
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)21:46
Gear_I'll be logged into my netbook with the phone anyway21:46
Estel_unless your definition of kite is different than mine, I don't see usb cable hanging from it fancy21:47
Gear_so I can putty and open HEN and drop things21:47
Gear_the netbook is a wifi access point and the phone is logged in and streaming video21:47
keriooh you need a camera, too21:47
Gear_I wish I knew how to put crosshairs up21:48
freemangordonkerio: wifi bandwith should allow streaming21:48
Gear_overlay something onto the display21:48
Gear_damn I want to get openpilot now21:48
kerioover your netbook :D21:49
Gear_that'd be retarded.21:49
kerioin all seriousness, fix your n900's usb21:49
Gear_you mean beef up the ground?21:50
DocScrutinizer05andre__: many thanks for confirming21:50
kerioi mean21:50
infobotsomebody said usbfix was - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)21:50
freemangordonBTW I still don;t get the "epoxy" part21:50
kerioto be fair, this n900's usb port seems to be resisting more21:50
Gear_you mean beef the ground up21:50
freemangordonwhat's wrong with epoxy?21:50
kerioGear_: *wink wink nudge nudge saynomore*21:51
Gear_shouldn't be anything wrong with expoxy if you use it sparingly21:51
Gear_but I'd solder it on21:51
kerioi think the issue with epoxy is that it doesn't actually fix the problem21:51
Gear_or just leave it, it's been fine since I got it21:51
Gear_epoxy would hold it there21:51
freemangordonkerio: mine is 3 year old, the only thing i did is to file my charger/cable connector teeth a bit21:51
freemangordonso it seems it depends on your luck21:52
Gear_hey my speaker is really quiet21:52
Gear_when I pulled that metal bit off it never properly sealed after that21:52
freemangordonkerio: why epoxy should not glue metal to the board?21:52
* ShadowJK has never boken usb and hasn't done any mods either21:52
kerioGear_: the Marshal Jacques de la Palice would be alive, if he weren't dead21:52
Gear_I tried putting some double sided tape around the "speaker channel" but that didn't really work21:53
kerioyay, a new kim dotcom video21:53
* freemangordon is off for cigarettes21:53
Gear_gordon freeman can't smoke in that hyper oxygenated suit21:53
Gear_mainyl because it has a helmet21:54
Gear_when is ep3 supposed to come out?21:54
freemangordonhe can't pee with it on too, so he removes it sometimes :D21:54
Gear_I thought it recycled all waste21:55
keriofreemangordon: what do you mean he can't pee with it on?21:55
kerioGear_: indeed21:55
kerioall good exo-suits do that!21:55
Gear_he can't take it on or off without help21:55
kerioyeah, as shown in half life and in half life 221:55
keriowhere he needs a huge apparatus to wear the suit21:55
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Gear_he jsut appears with the suit21:56
kerio"still fits like a glove! at least, the glove parts do"21:56
Gear_I'm sur ethe process of putting it on would be at least as difficult as a space suit21:56
Gear_also it should have a rebreather21:57
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: (epoxy) a) epoxy is more flexible than solder, so solder will break first. and b) epoxy would only glue to the green varnish unless you remove it and thoroughly sandpaper the copper under it21:57
Gear_it can admimister intravenous drugs and has muscle augmentation, a rebreather would be a simple addition21:57
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: and c) epoxy is nearly impossible to remove or rework when sth goes wrong21:58
Estel_freemangordon,  as "some" claims, hardened epoxy is much more elastic than solder joins, so while it keeps usb in place, it doesnt protect it from damage to usb pads and it's solder21:58
Gear_I'd use solder21:58
Estel_and it's true for most consuimer grade epoxies21:58
Gear_epoxy could gum up stuff you dont' want it to21:58
Estel_there are, available for purchase, epoxies that are less elastic than metal21:58
Gear_I' duse solder21:58
Estel_but they're not as that adhesive21:58
Gear_but I haven't taken the phone that far apart21:58
Estel_soldering is better option21:59
Estel_if someone doesn't touch soldering iron with long stick and want to use epoxy no matter what, I would recommend ones used to repair hydraulic21:59
Estel_in form of 2-part "putty", seals underwater (lol@ factoid) and after sealing ressemble rock, not elastic at all. Sadly, it's still quite hard to attach it properly, it resemble toy putty in consistence22:00
Estel_frankly, i see soldering both easier and more robust22:01
eyescreamAre the temp repos linked on tmo trustworthy?22:01
Estel_downside - even people experienced with soldering (like me or vi) happen to run into strage issue after soldering22:01
kerioeyescream: is trustworthy?22:01
Estel_despite that only usb shield is soldered to shieldplane, device starts to turn on itself upon inserting battery22:01
kerioEstel_: have you tried a22:02
Estel_and in extreme cases, turn on in act_dead mode no matter what, requiring one to set r&d flag pwr_button22:02
infobotn900-full-reset is, like, when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.22:02
eyescreamkerio: I've wondered that, too. My answer was more trustworthy than anything else.22:02
Estel_personally, I suspect the following:22:03
Gear_can you emulate iphone software?22:03
Estel_quite a heat is required to attach usb shield to shieldplane22:03
kerioeyescream: packages are still signed with the same gpg keys22:03
Estel_considering how tiny connections inside multi-layer PCB are...22:03
kerioso even the weird repos are a lot more trustworthy than, say, packages from nokia's repos22:04
Estel_there is huge chance of burning out pcb isolating some two of them22:04
Estel_while soldering shield to groundplane22:04
Gear_use flux and solder carefully22:04
Estel_resulting in some connection, where it shouldn't be present22:04
Gear_lots of people have done it22:04
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  any comment on that from someone familliar with N900 PCB point of view?22:05
Estel_is it plausible explanation?22:05
Gear_I haven't yet because it requires taking the hell apart of the phone22:05
Gear_and the usb port is fine22:05
Estel_I though it's just me, but I've talked with at least 6 people experiencing same issue after soldering down port. Personally, I soldered it on few devices, and two of them are affected by that, immediately after soldering22:06
Gear_my brothers one broke off and I'm gonna use his as a guineapig22:06
Gear_use an adjustable heat iron and flux and do it carefully22:06
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: yep, got it now (epoxy)22:06
Estel_2nd one was soldered very carefully by me, yet, it still shows this behavior22:06
Gear_it only has to stick22:06
freemangordonEstel_: gas iron?22:07
Gear_not armour the whole thing up with solder22:07
Estel_well, pwr_button r&d flag is nice way to nullify it, but...22:07
eyescreamkerio: I see. Thanks. I might as well go ahead and try them out, then.22:07
Estel_freemangordon,  yes, but I made sure that heat from it doesn't affect other parts via air22:07
Gear_my gas iron is brutal, I wouldn't use it on any n90022:07
freemangordonEstel_: could it be electrostatic discharge? I know you are experienced, but...22:08
Estel_freemangordon,  hm, I always touch solid ground before soldering it, and gas iron, as said... don't think so22:08
Gear_you'd have to overheat it so badly, pcb isn't that heat condictive22:08
freemangordonEstel_: only touch? no grounded ring on your wrist?22:09
Estel_exact same copies of software on all devices, some get affected, some not - just after soldering, immediately, si I would say "hardware"22:09
DocScrutinizer05eyescream: skerion is22:09
Estel_freemangordon,  gas iron handle is insulative and tip grounded, so my wrist shouldn't matter22:09
freemangordonGear_: :nod:22:09
freemangordonEstel_: what?22:09 and merlin too, i'd say22:09
freemangordonboth yoiu and the iron should be grounded afaik22:10
Gear_as soon as the solder flows let that side cool22:10
Estel_I mean that grip of my gas soldering iron is made of non-conductive material, and grounded to avoid static22:10
freemangordonaah, ok22:10
Gear_is it really necessary? my phone has been going since it was new22:10
Estel_freemangordon,  I can't ground "whole" iron or it would take heat to the ground, still, I would rather blame heat22:11
Gear_what would you ground it to anyway22:11
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freemangordonEstel_: do you have an idea what material is pcb made from?22:11
Estel_frankly, it just looks like device"thinks" there is charger connected, on low lvl, but data pins are *not* short22:11
eyescreamDocScrutinizer05: Thanks. And thanks for the updates on the migration process. :)22:12
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Estel_no idea, but i would guess some epoxy-derrivative and glass fiber?22:12
Gear_epoxy is too gunky22:12
freemangordonEstel_: i doubt it is glass/epoxy because of hi freq parts22:12
Estel_so no idea, as said22:13
Estel_why asking? some idea?22:13
freemangordonso if it is tephlon (or whatever the english term is) i'd say it is overheated22:13
DocScrutinizer05(soldering) make sure you got no static or parasitic electricity on your solder tip22:13
Gear_can iphone software be ported?22:13
freemangordonGear_: what software?22:13
Gear_it uses the camera and "levels"22:14
Estel_I would say "heat", as usb port is (relatively) big, and to solder it's outer side to ground plane on device (under scrapped green mask) you need quite a heat, even if you do it with small ammount of solder22:15
freemangordonGear_: if you get the source, I guess it could be ported22:15
Gear_it's a relatively useful piece of software for bow22:16
Estel_i suspect that "something" is very fragile, be it a path inside pcb or whatnot. Maybe ikt's not direct contact, even22:16
Estel_it seems to affect device only at boot time22:16
bef0rdbut that hardware is designed for iPhone form factor22:16
Estel_no higher power usage during runtime (by a slightest bit), no other ill effects22:16
Estel_usb working fine for both hostmode and client22:16
bef0rd <- Gear_22:16
freemangordonbef0rd: he'll use duct tape :D22:16
Gear_oh you mean the chassis22:17
Gear_it could be altered22:17
bef0rdduct tape should work22:17
freemangordonit works everytime :D22:17
Estel_just that during boot, in enters act_dead, and shutdowns, due to lack of charger22:17
Estel_(boots ok with charger connected)22:17
Gear_estel that sounds bad22:17
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Gear_how many did this happen to?22:18
Estel_r&d flag pwr_button "fixes" it and no further ill effects observed, for more than a year of usage22:18
Estel_yea, would say 30%, but it's quite random22:18
Estel_funny enough, people who doesn't care for grounding rings on wrist or even touching anything grounded before starting, doesn't seem to be afffected :P22:19
Estel_so i would say luck22:19
Gear_I see no reason to really do that mod until the ground thing actually breaks off22:19
Estel_it's too late then22:19
freemangordonGear_: it will be late then22:19
freemangordonit takes copper with it22:19
Gear_it'll still work, it's just soldered on anyway22:19
freemangordon*the copper22:20
Gear_and you're soldering the sides22:20
Estel_data and power pads gets damaged, and even if they look all clean (rarely they do), and you're able to fix it, there is high chance it will stop working again22:20
Gear_that's all connected to the same ground isn't it?22:20
freemangordonGear_: it is not only ground on USB22:20
Estel_soldering 4 pins of microusb is pita enough, and if copper pads get broken too, it's impossible unless one use under_battery pads22:21
freemangordonif the connector falls of, it takes data planes off too22:21
Estel_even then, it's pita to fix22:21
kerioi thought the under-battery pads were for rapuyama's usb22:21
Gear_my brothers one didn't take the data pins off22:21
Estel_for what?22:21
Gear_just the little shield fell out22:21
Estel_gear, wf? :P22:22
Gear_my brothers n900 the little ground shield fell out and it still worked with some wiggling22:22
Estel_can't parse, we're talking about microUSB port on N900, it can't break partially ;)22:23
Estel_it just goes off22:23
Estel_freemangordon,  once, I had fun idea22:23
Gear_it's just the ground metal thing22:23
Estel_checking pcb schematics22:23
Gear_so that iphone software, could it be ported do you think?22:23
Estel_to ensure that no path cross pcb just at sides of port22:24
freemangordonGear_: already answered, gimme the source code and i guess i'll port it22:24
Estel_drilling it with 0.5 mm drill22:24
Gear_I don't have the source code22:24
freemangordonwhat to "port" then22:24
Gear_I dunno. can it be reverse engineered?22:24
Estel_then, putting microusb port with legs soldered on the other said, through holes22:24
Estel_sure, get tools and reverse engineer it, alongside windows, and few other minor software bits22:25
freemangordonGear_: if you find me HexRays for ARM, I promise i'll RE it for you. Or will write a replacement22:25
Estel_writing replacement seems less work :P22:25
freemangordonthough I don;t have a bow here, might need to get one :D22:26
Estel_Gear_,  start a kickstarted project22:26
Estel_frankly, it would be possible to do using N900 software already available22:26
Gear_look up bowtech destroyer 350 back ops22:26
freemangordonEstel_: sound sane (USB holes)22:26
Estel_there is plenty of it measuring angles22:26
Gear_black ops22:27
Gear_that's my bow, it's brutal22:27
bef0rdhexrays/ida is way too expensive22:27
freemangordonthough I don;t think we have access to PCB22:27
freemangordonbef0rd: I know22:27
Estel_freemangordon,  it does, and it would be rock solid thereafter, like mikniusb ports or regular ones, but that unidentified "heat" damage scarred me off22:27
Gear_heat it slower22:27
bef0rdbut it's a fine piece of software22:27
Estel_time for FOSS RE tool :P22:28
freemangordonbef0rd: yeah. And we are lucky that at least x86 hexrays leaked :)22:28
Estel_I can't stand this afront to freedom, no foss RE thing being better than commercial ones? :)22:28
Gear_it might actually be worth just getting an iphone if I'm gonna pay for that mount22:28
freemangordonEstel_: come on , writing decompiler/disassembler is huuge project22:29
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Gear_actually I think that software might come installed on an iphone already, it seems to be a custom iphone22:29
freemangordoncustom iphone?22:29
Estel_freemangordon,  so writing operating system is :P22:29
Gear_it has camo22:29
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Gear_does the guy say it's an app?22:30
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bef0rdGear_: maybe I dont get it but that software seems quite basic, just a camera and a level indicator?22:30
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Estel_freemangordon,  there are N900's sold with Faircrack preinstalled, for 2k$22:30
bef0rdand a dot in the middle of the camera viewer ?22:30
freemangordonbef0rd: ;)22:30
Estel_"custom hacker phones"22:30
Gear_I don't know22:30
freemangordonEstel_: what?!? 2000$ for n900?22:31
Gear_it's the first time I've seen that software and I haven't researched it yet22:31
Estel_freemangordon,  I though of selling N900's like that myself :P22:31
freemangordoncome on22:31
Estel_I saw at least few of them sol for 1800 usd, but it was a while ago. Maybe people got smarter since... Or not22:31
freemangordonI wouldn;t believe someone is stupid enough to buy that22:31
Estel_You wouldn't belive how stupid people can be22:31
freemangordonthough... people are stupid, they buy iphones22:31
nlroflhello! i just tried registering on the website, but the security images are offline?22:32
Estel_stuff N900 with pentest things, make a fancy hackish theme, add smscon with pre-confogured scripts for "eavesdropping" on owner gps position and talks...22:32
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Estel_and you have 5k dollars device for sale :P22:32
Estel_hacker/spy ultimate device combined22:32
Estel_recaller hidden and set up to record calls22:33
Estel_smscon to monitor gps position and take photos of user22:33
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Estel_= ultimate gift for suspected husband or employe22:33
bef0rdI think Estel_ meant this one
jyrjyrEstel_, sounds very cool - been thinking about similar stuff =)22:33
bef0rdwonder where are they getting the new n900 from :P22:34
Estel_well, if not for my funny morals, I would already made small fortune on it, "spy phones" are expensive on local wanna-be-ebay sites22:34
Estel_"brand new" :P22:34
bef0rdhah yea22:35
Estel_995 $? this one is cheaper22:35
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Estel_still fun way to sell devices, though22:36
Estel_freemangordon went away, I bet he is buying stock of N900's ;)22:36
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Estel_to stuff them with stuff22:36
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jyrjyri'm going to test building a n900 cluster22:37
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jyrjyronly have two of them currently though =P22:37
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* DocScrutinizer05 throws another 5 N900 plus 14 Openmoko Freerunner GTA02 on jyrjyr22:40
jyrjyrit would make a nice little compiling farm22:41
DocScrutinizer05actually I pondered that when we had a stock of a few 1000 GTA02 which were pretty unclear if they'd ever get sold22:41
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  you could create darwinia with them22:42
jyrjyri'd like to make that farm available in the net22:42
jyrjyrEstel_, exactly =)22:42
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DocScrutinizer05I figured how they'd look when put up to the wall in a 30*30 grid, or 30*8022:44
khmwhat is the fastest interconnect available for the n900?22:46
khmusb ethernet?22:46
DocScrutinizer05theoretically should max out at 100+some mbit22:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe even 2 or 3 hundred22:48
khmnot much there then.  have to spend a long time optimizing mpi22:48
khmcould do a dsitributed grid over wan, with a client that only activates when the phone is charging22:48
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Estel_usb ethernet max out at 5Mb/s most of the time22:49
DocScrutinizer05in real system yes22:49
Estel_more expensive ones can get 15 Mb/s max, if we're talking about usb to ethernet dongles22:49
* Estel_ nods22:49
khmit's not really about throughput though in a compute cluster22:50
khmyou worry more about latency22:50
khmand reliability, of course22:50
Estel_latency seems ok even in 2$ ethernet dongles22:50
khmbut usually I get yelled at if average latency exceeds about 250ns22:50
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DocScrutinizer05I thought we're talking about ethernet-over-usb, not dongles22:51
Estel_well, in gmy limited tests el-cheapo usb->ethernet solution was quite reliable, suprisingly, but it doesn't apply to old davicom (dm96) module powered ones22:51
Estel_yea, ethernet over usb sounds more approriate22:51
Estel_still, suprisingly, hostmode and dongles are cheap and effective, if you buy el-cheapo qf9700 ones22:51
Estel_quite compatible with any network infra yoiu may have or want22:52
khmI want someone to buy a license from altair for the scheduler software and put down "assloads of nokias" as the environment22:52
khmlook *that* up on your price sheet22:52
Estel_ethernet over usb for 1k devices could prove problematic on hardware level for obvious reasons22:52
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Estel_i wonder what the real life limits of N900 wifi hardware are, when it comes to bandwidth22:54
ShadowJKprobably limit is in spi bus22:55
Estel_any ideas how it looks there?22:55
Gear_ethernet work well through usb?22:56
Gear_estel just try torrenting something22:57
Estel_not so easy, you need to ensure stable testing enviromnent with no other limiting factors22:57
Estel_flash speed limits you ;)22:57
Gear_that sucks22:58
Gear_flash doesn't run fast22:58
Estel_would need ramdisk22:58
Estel_something inside ram22:58
Gear_oh that flash22:58
Estel_tadzik,  true :D22:58
tadzika fuse FS that doesn't actually store anything22:58
Estel_sending zeroes over wifi is fun, too22:58
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ShadowJK5 what23:04
DocScrutinizer05karma whore23:05
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MrPinguLet's see if I can find 5 posts for you :P23:07
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Estel_ah, it's why hildon foundation [strike]wasted[/strike] used donated money to buy vbulletin propertiary license23:14
Estel_upon migration to SMF or PHPBB DocScrutinizer05 would lose his thanks!23:14
MrPinguDocScrutinizer05: Congratulations on your 3k'th thanks23:15
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keriocan you cancel a "thanks"?23:16
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MrPingukerio: yes23:17
kerioThanked 2,999 Times in 537 Posts23:19
MrPinguI think I have more posts left to thank than you to unthank :P :P23:23
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keriowell, i only had one thanked post23:34
DocScrutinizer05MrPingu: \o/ :-D23:34
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Ex-OpesaHi. Anyone uses Kasvopus on n900 here?23:36
Ex-OpesaIts a facebook client.23:36
MrPinguEx-Opesa: used, but that's a long time ago. Now I use in MicroB23:39
DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote, FYI (to whom it may concern):23:41
DocScrutinizer05> You probably know that the SSL setup on is broken. The23:41
DocScrutinizer05> certificate and the private key file do not match.23:41
DocScrutinizer05> The certificate will anyway expire on the 3rd of Jan, 2013. Hope that23:41
DocScrutinizer05> the Hildon Foundation can request a new one, as soon as the domain23:41
DocScrutinizer05> ownership is transferred. If somebody needs help with requesting a23:41
DocScrutinizer05> certificate please contact Niels or myself.23:41
Ex-OpesaMrPingu: Okay. I was just wondering why we can't check our messages in it. I mean that is one of the basic and most important feature of a fb client23:41
Ex-OpesaMrPingu: Thanks for replying though. I might post on forum later.23:42
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MrPinguEx-Opesa: YW, I might dissapoint you but I think FB client development for N900 is dead23:43
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Ex-OpesaMrPingu: Yeah. zzz23:48
MrPinguI might be that fMobi from ovistore is decent but it costs you23:49
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Ex-OpesaI will check it too23:51
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