IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-01-03

kerioa bl-5j goes from 4.2V to 3.2V, pretty much00:00
kerio100% to 6%00:00
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover00:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: correct?00:01
DocScrutinizer05yep, correct00:02
lnxmenI'll check the voltage one more time...00:02
DocScrutinizer05flatbatrecover only works with genuine nokia fastcharger00:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: isn't 2.8 near the level where the cells get damaged?00:03
DocScrutinizer052.7V is pretty much where protection circuit inside battery kicks in00:03
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: :nod: ^^^00:03
keriostupid protection circuits not allowing people to fuck up their batteries if they want :C00:04
infobotwell, batteryfaq is
lnxmenNow Voltage is about 2.900:05
lnxmenI found other battery00:05
lnxmenwhich looks like bl-5j00:05
lnxmenand voltage is 3.700:05
lnxmenSo I will try with other battery00:06
DocScrutinizer05p.9 "CT-N3650HX-1"00:07
DocScrutinizer05p.14 >> 2.300±0.058 V Over-discharge detection voltage <<00:08
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DocScrutinizer05of course that's not a BL-5J00:09
DocScrutinizer05the basic operation should be rather similar00:09
lnxmenI don't think so it's a battery fault00:10
lnxmenwhen I want to charge it00:10
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lnxmenthere is now orange? color00:10
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keriosolid orange?00:10
keriooh :(00:10
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover00:11
DocScrutinizer05Nokia fatscharger!00:11
DocScrutinizer05fast even00:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is the "1 minute" to discharge everything? because it will require a lot more than that if you have a working bupbat00:11
DocScrutinizer05hmm, not really00:12
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DocScrutinizer05it's to reset from e.g overvoltage cutout00:12
DocScrutinizer05or dunnowhat00:12
DocScrutinizer05lnxmen: will only work with original Nokia fastcharger00:13
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kerioand every standard musb charger with enough amps00:14
DocScrutinizer05with a USB cable to PC, 3rd party chargers, or a broken charger, you don't see steady amber00:14
lnxmenI have original charger00:14
keriosoooooooo, basically the nokia fastcharger and very little else, yes00:14
r00t|homeand definition of nokia fast-charger is what? D+/D- shorted and 1000mA?00:15
DocScrutinizer05yup, pretty much00:15
kerio1.1A i think00:15
kerioor more, of course00:15
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter00:15
DocScrutinizer05I guess your battery is broken maybe00:17
keriohow many amps at 5V can you reasonably get from a wall socket?00:17
DocScrutinizer05lnxmen: ^^^00:17
DocScrutinizer05kerio: UH??00:17
r00t|homekerio: enough to MELT the phone into a puddle of metal and burned plastic?00:18
DocScrutinizer05I don't know any wall socket with 5V00:18
kerioi meant with a transformer00:18
r00t|homesee above00:18
kerioa reasonably-sized one00:18
DocScrutinizer05that obviously depends on transformer00:18
Belzebubkerio: i bought goclever wall charger 5V 2A00:18
lnxmenDocScrutinizer05: ?00:18
DocScrutinizer05lnxmen: hm?00:19
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r00t|homekerio: then it depends on your definiton of "reasonable"00:19
keriolnxmen: we're thinking broken battery00:19
DocScrutinizer05lnxmen: I guess your battery is broken maybe00:19
kerioor at best, a really depleted battery00:19
lnxmenHmm why?00:20
DocScrutinizer05a broken battery might cause steady amber on flatbatrecover to never show up00:20
lnxmenI have another battery, I checked with it - and it also doesn't work00:20
DocScrutinizer05since bq24150 tries to charge, detects battery defect, and stops. takes ~1ms00:20
DocScrutinizer05or 2000:20
keriolnxmen: :(00:21
DocScrutinizer05then you're facing *real* problems00:21
keriolnxmen: have you tried removing your sim and the uSD?00:22
DocScrutinizer05you should check in PC's syslog when plugging your N900 with semi-decently charged battery to USB of PC00:22
lnxmenthere is no sim and no SD00:22
DocScrutinizer05hmm, should work too00:23
DocScrutinizer05though i don't know a PC that doesn't have syslog00:23
keriomy n900!00:23
lnxmenokay, let's do it :D00:23
DocScrutinizer05something /var/log/*00:23
DocScrutinizer05either syslog, or messages00:23
DocScrutinizer05other flenames are possible00:24
DocScrutinizer05there should be some notification about N900 ROMBOOT00:24
DocScrutinizer05detected on USB00:24
DocScrutinizer05when you plug in the N900 in powered down state00:25
lnxmenMy N900 doesn't give me any signs of live ;d00:25
lnxmendmesg gives no informations about USB plugged device (N900)00:25
lnxmenbut I did it00:25
DocScrutinizer05with a 'good' battery? on USB?00:25
lnxmenyes, on USB, but with 'bad' battery ;d00:26
DocScrutinizer05bad battery won't allow device to boot to any conscious state00:26
lnxmenand good battery too00:27
lnxmenit's must be hardware fault00:27
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure USB logs to dmesg00:27
lnxmenI plugged game controler via USB00:28
lnxmenand in dmesg I can see some informations about it00:28
DocScrutinizer05Jan  2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.536116] usb 1-1: new high speed USB device number 13 using ehci_hcd00:30
DocScrutinizer05Jan  2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651496] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=010600:30
DocScrutinizer05Jan  2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651505] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=000:30
DocScrutinizer05Jan  2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651512] usb 1-1: Product: Nokia USB ROM00:30
DocScrutinizer05Jan  2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651518] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Nokia00:30
lnxmenWhen my N900 was working I had similar messages00:30
DocScrutinizer05on inserting battery, after I wondered why it played dead bug on plugging USB to PC00:30
DocScrutinizer05same moment I inserted battery, tail -f /var/log/messages spits out above lines00:31
lnxmenit's this same messages like in dmesg00:31
DocScrutinizer05you need a proper battery to test00:32
DocScrutinizer05I still blame battery, and honestly I don't trust your replacement battery, even when it 'looks similar'00:33
lnxmentomorrow I'll try to arrange it00:33
DocScrutinizer05the USB test has the advantage of not depending on powerbutton and rootfs00:34
lnxmenwhat mean with USB test?00:35
DocScrutinizer05the test you just did00:35
DocScrutinizer05there's actually hardly any more basic test - except flatbatrecover which should always work, give battery, device and charger are OK00:37
DocScrutinizer05the steady amber should come up at least shortly for any battery too low to boot to NOKIA bootscreen00:38
lnxmeneven if hardware is broken?00:38
DocScrutinizer05even if CPU is defect, yes00:39
DocScrutinizer05it's just one small chip (well actually 2) and battery nad USB port that are needed, and of course the LED00:40
DocScrutinizer05an unplugged or broken flex cable between screen and body would also cause LED to not light up anymore00:40
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DocScrutinizer05but unless you inserted a credit card into the slot between keyboard and screen, it's hard to figure how that cable could get unplugged00:42
DocScrutinizer05I hope you had no card of any kind in that pocket while skiing?00:42
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lnxmenyes, I had only N900 in pocket00:44
DocScrutinizer05get a proper spare battery00:44
DocScrutinizer05or try charging the one you have in another compatible phone00:44
DocScrutinizer055800 for example00:45
lnxmenbut how battery could broke during falls?00:46
DocScrutinizer05^^^ iirc00:46
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DocScrutinizer05LiIon don't like hard impact00:47
DocScrutinizer05also don't like cold00:47
lnxmen2C? Is it cold for LiIon?00:47
kerio2C is cold for humans!00:47
DocScrutinizer05not really, but a 'weak' battery may break on it00:47
keriowhy were you outside in the snow instead of being on a warm beach?00:47
lnxmeninside the jacket was more warm00:48
lnxmenand I prespired00:48
DocScrutinizer05whatever, check your battery00:48
DocScrutinizer052.7V also indicates fatal hw defect00:48
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kerioor a broken multimeter :)00:49
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lnxmenAnyway having Linux in phone is a wonderful thing :D00:50
DocScrutinizer05you'll hardly find anybody arguing that, in here00:51
AoyagiThat's what some Android people claim too.00:51
tadzikI think it's mostly a matter of unix-ish userspace than linux itself00:52
jaskalousybox <.<00:52
kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, i was reading a bit of lkml today00:52
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kerioapparently linus is getting annoyed at udev/systemd00:53
TheorboI'd like to get a consensus of what most of you are most excited about or interested in - FFOS, Android, Nemo, SailFish, Ubuntu Phone/Mobile? What do you see yourself running later this year or early next year?00:53
kerioTheorbo: ffos?00:53
TheorboFireFox (I just included it because it is opensource)00:53
kerioso far, i see myself running maemo fremantle00:54
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TheorboI'm currently a Maemo user. I have ignored Harmattan because of Aegis. I was looking forward to SailFish but now I feel very confident it is going to be something controlled by the desires of Chinese parties that Jolla has involved itself with in wanting to be a major player.00:55
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TheorboAs for Ubuntu's Phone solution - I worry that Canonical is growing to become a company that can't be trusted with user private data. I think they have spent the last few years seducing the opensource community with a reliable, easy, stable solution and now they are going to go really commercial. I don't have a problem with commercial as long as the cards are laid on the table. Commercial, today, means selling of user data.00:57
lnxmenWhat about circuit?00:58
AoyagiOh I agree with that so much.00:58
tadzikI'm kind of interested in Sailfish, but, well, if it were available that'd be great00:58
lnxmenI have plugged charger and N900 is warm now00:58
tadzik"we'll show a phone in Q4 2012!". Oh, great, N950 running Nemo on steroids00:59
tadzikthe ui is neat, agreed00:59
tadzikas for selling users' data, I've heard this saying "if you're not paying for the product, then you're actually the product someone pays for", or something like that01:00
HurrianTheorbo, the solution is simple - make sure that Canonical doesn't use a Canonical search API01:00
Hurrianmake it directly call Amazon/Google/*'s search API, but not Canonical01:01
Hurrianmuch like the situation on Android, don't trust your manufacturer with your data01:01
TheorboHurrian - I worry that parts of the platform will be close source01:01
TheorboI worry that those parts could hide worrying things.01:01
TheorboI am a security consultant. I have worked in a few industries. You should think less of tech companies than you do.01:02
Theorbouser data is becoming the new prime realestate01:02
Theorboindeed, it has been for some time01:02
HurrianTheorbo, well, let's see how many components are closed, first.01:02
TheorboIf canonical was open and just put amazon, netflix, and ebay shortcuts et cetera on the default install I would not mind in the slightest.01:03
HurrianIt's obvious Canonical wants to go commercial, but to be evil or not is to be seen.01:03
TheorboIf they got paid to include FireFox OS as the default or similar - I don't care01:04
TheorboIf they start hiding things in code, I get nervous01:04
TheorboAnd I get nervous that I won't know for sure.01:04
HurrianTheorbo: and that's why you look for the binary blobs first01:05
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TheorboWe need something like Mer/Nemo that opensource user will actually put their wallets behind enough that it produces a solid, usable day to day OS01:05
HurrianIf their fancy UI is still based on desktop Unity+Qt though, it'll be open, and then you can just rip out the binary bits with apt-get purge.01:05
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HurrianThat sounds like Sailfish.01:06
Hurrian(although, the binary components of which are still unknown)01:06
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M4rtinKwell, Unity actually doesn't use Qt on the desktop :)01:09
freemangordonI was wondering that one too01:09
M4rtinKeven for the 2d stuff01:09
M4rtinKthey switched to lvmpipe for that IIRC01:09
freemangordonhow exactly is Qt/QML integrated with GTK3 stuff01:10
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TheorboHurrian - was your statement "That sounds like Sailfish" referring to my statement?01:11
Theorbogordon - nice name01:11
M4rtinKfreemangordon: not at all ? :P01:12
freemangordonM4rtinK: that wouldn't make sense :)01:13
HurrianTheorbo: yup.01:16
freemangordonTheorbo: you know who Gordon Freeman is?01:17
TheorboI disagree. I think Jolla fancies itself as a developer company but I think that those at the top have been seduced by "business power" and are very involved with in China in a way that I'm not thrilled with.01:17
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Hurrianas in putting interception capabilities into the OS, etc?01:18
TheorboI think that they are painted as this MeeGo revival team based around opensource lovers. I think that they are actually willing to do anything to make grounds in market share in China.01:19
TheorboAt least those at the top.01:19
TheorboAll that I am saying is that I don't like the path they are taking and that to be a success in China (when starting in China) often involves less than noble concessions.01:20
HurrianTheorbo: well, if those two vendors are not to be trusted, then how about GNOME3 (is mutter fixed for GLES yet?)01:21
HurrianGNOME3 + Mer providing the middleware01:21
M4rtinKwell, the more open, the harder is it to build in some interception backdoors into software01:22
M4rtinKdoesn't help with hardware too much :)01:22
TheorboI am talking about many things01:23
M4rtinKHurrian: mutter uses Clutter01:23
M4rtinKClutter runns on both OpenGL & OpenGL ES01:23
M4rtinKI find it a bit obsoleted by QML though01:24
freemangordonM4rtinK: my experience with QML is close to nothing, but I have some concerns about its performance01:25
HurrianM4rtinK, as for the hardware blobs, only the closed radio firmware is worrying01:25
freemangordonyes, we were told Qt5 will be the next best thing after the sliced bread, but still01:25
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TheorboThey even have their data centre in China now.01:26
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TheorboWhen I execute apt-get, I don't like that path passing through the Great Wall.01:27
Theorbo(sorry - pkg_add - BSD user here)01:27
Hurrianwait, Jolla hosts in China now?01:28
TheorboIf I am not mistaken, that is the plan.01:28
TheorboAnd if you would like to argue about compiling form source et cetera, I don't imagine everyone is intending to do that even if it will be easily done01:29
M4rtinKfreemangordon: well clutter seems to handle large images better01:29
TheorboI am hugely concerned with the hardware aspect as well01:29
M4rtinKfreemangordon: maybe slower but still handles them fine, while in QML it degrades both visually and in performance once (i assume) max texture size is reached01:30
freemangordonM4rtinK: I guess that depends on driver, but still, if clutter can do it, why QML can't. Speaking for Fremantle ofc01:31
HurrianTheorbo: well, let's see what parts of the OS require user data.01:32
DocScrutinizer05don't worry about hw, make them send my a prototype and schematics01:32
M4rtinKyep, my experience is also from fremantle01:32
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but you have one :P01:32
Hurrianand then, you know, not use them.01:32
Hurrianbecause as we all know from Android and iOS, apps for websites (Facebook/Skype/G+) aren't exactly secure.01:33
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: iirc you have n950, aren't you?01:33
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: one of the future Jollaphones? nah!01:33
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no, n95001:33
DocScrutinizer05I *honestly* doubt Jollaphone will look anything like N95001:33
TheorboDoc - my point is that Jolla won't be the kind of company that sends schematics out01:33
Theorbothat is what they have been painted as - that is not the direction they are going.01:34
HurrianThey have to send out service manuals sometime in the future.01:34
freemangordonhmm, which raises the question - who will support the devices in warranty?01:34
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freemangordon(assuming such will be sold in europe)01:35
keriojust make devices that don't break, problem solved01:35
TheorboI'd like to be very blunt. China - as in Chines Authorities (the guys infamous for doing less than moral things) have been wanting an OS for China. It is very much a government initiative and not simply because they don't want foreign companies taking out profits.01:35
freemangordonkerio: heh?01:35
TheorboIt is a nationalistic initiative with hidden undertones01:35
Hurriankerio, going by the team's track record for RX-51 USB ports, RM-680 LCD screens and RM-696 USB doors, that's a tall order01:36
TheorboIf Jolla has been rubbing elbows over there for a year - as they bragged about doing - they might be lined up to fill that spot01:36
DocScrutinizer05Theorbo: well, not much I could answer, except "let's wait and see"01:36
TheorboAnd if they are the platform that the government has been wanting - you can bet on something being fishy in some part of the stack - from software to hardware01:36
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Theorbothere will be something. The Chinese have shown over and over that that is their cup of tea. This is not some anti-Chinese rambling. It is the fact of things.01:37
TheorboDoc - the point is we really won't know for sure. You have to judge by the surroundings01:37
Theorboand the surroundings are a Finnish group moving over to China playing ball on every level as 95 percent of their funding comes from Chinese companies (that are VERY influenced by the government)01:38
ShadowJKAnd also the Americans, like when Boeing overhauled China's presidential jet, suddenly hundreds of undocumented microphones, recorders, and transmitters had been installed ;)01:38
Theorboand even without the funding - China is the market that the Jolla execs want to cut their teeth on01:39
HurrianTheorbo: well of course we can't know for sure now, but once either the Sailfish platform is available for Mer Core or the devices get released, then we can take a peek through it, and decide if it is yet another mobile cancer or otherwise.01:39
TheorboIf they have aspirations of becoming the guys they have worked for for so long, human nature will surrender morals to whatever party they have to deal with in the red nation01:39
ShadowJKChina and India are also interesting in that Google and Nokia are fucking it up there, they don't have any way to bill people, so appstore piracy is the norm :)01:40
TheorboShadow - I'm not saying that the West doesn't do similar. The benefit of the west is that they are mildly more likely to focus on foreign government whereas China is known for setting sights on everything , foreign/local civlian/government01:40
HurrianAlthough if China wanted one botnet to control the Chinese, one has to wonder why it wasn't Aliyun or MIUI or Xiaomi or ZTE or Huawei.01:41
ShadowJKSo if someone was able to figure out how to accept people's money, they'd have greater chance at getting a slice of the market than the people who can't figure out how to receive money01:41
Hurrian(wait, wasn't Huawei already caught botnetting their network equipment?)01:41
ShadowJKI think that was Nokia Siemens :-)01:41
ShadowJKThe spy features in their base station hardware01:42
HurrianShadowJK, in US deployments, what carrier hardware doesn't require "lawful intercept" functionality?01:43
TheorboHurrian - I'm a security consultant - if things are done properly at the hardware level there is VERY little chance of being able to catch it.01:43
DocScrutinizer05things we be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything01:43
TheorboI'm not trying to go nuts on a tinfoil hat tangent01:43
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: things will be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything01:44
Theorbobut if SailFish is what the chinese government has been waiting for and if deals are being done behind closed doors, then the likelihood of an untrustworthy platform are quite high.01:44
DocScrutinizer05tivoization allows them to force their users on any skynet crap they like01:44
DocScrutinizer05and you all know OMAP comes with tivo per default, as do most other SOCs nowadays01:45
TheorboIn the end, most things are being done at the network level. I'm just mentioning this because most people don't seem to have any concern.01:45
TheorboI wish more had.01:45
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DocScrutinizer05Theorbo: you'll easily spot the closed blobs that do nasty things01:45
TheorboIn software - yes01:46
HurrianTheorbo, iOS' massive popularity is a testament to user blindness.01:46
TheorboI'm talking about hardware.01:46
HurrianOh, and hiding it in hardware works until one of the following happens:01:46
Theorboat least, recently i was referring to hardware01:46
ShadowJKThey just issue orders. Like after someone took a taxi in Beijing, hid anti-party opinions inside ping pong balls, rolled down taxi window while driving through town and throwing the ping pong balls with the hidden messages at people, all taxi cabs were mandated to convert their taxis so that windows can not be rolled down, and taxi drivers may not transport passengers with more than 1 ping pong ball.01:46
DocScrutinizer05I'm EE, I tell you hw is a terribly difficult field to insert something that nobody notices and still offers some function beneficial to the dark side01:47
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Hurrian1) Suspicious traffic is caught traveling across the network, can't be pinpointed to blobs in the SW, someone takes a Salae to the radio01:47
TheorboMy specialty is software - I won't argue hardware with you01:47
TheorboBut the EE in the security field I associate with share my opinion01:48
TheorboIndeed, it is theirs that I have taken on01:48
Hurrian2) The Jolla phone becomes popular, one of the decap companies that does decaps for PR tears down the Jollaphone, hilarity ensues.01:49
DocScrutinizer05homestly, why should anybody do such nonsense like hiding functions in hw. All they need is tivoized bootloader and with that they force every BS they like onto their customers01:50
ShadowJKThis is silly anyway, china makes everything anyways, whether it be iphones or ranombrand android :P01:50
HurrianDocScrutinizer05, because tivoization of Linux hardware is a surefire way to get your shit rooted?01:51
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DocScrutinizer05like HARM?01:52
HurrianHow significant /was/ the tivoization on it?01:53
DocScrutinizer05probably in china you are about 30cm shorter when they catch you witha rooted device. and odds are they catch everybody who roots it01:53
HurrianIf they disallowed openmode kernel on N9/50, that would be one hell of an uproar.;01:53
DocScrutinizer05honestly why should the HIDE any such rogue shit?01:53
DocScrutinizer05particularly since you can't hide any active useful function in a mobile anyway, it gets detected from behaviour of device by virtually everybody and his dog01:55
HurrianDocScrutinizer05, advertising you have a rootkit preinstalled isn't good for sales01:55
DocScrutinizer05you think China does give a shit about it?01:56
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DocScrutinizer05is adveritising internet censorship and great chinese firewall good for internet sales?01:57
DocScrutinizer05Chinese Gvmt simply does it01:57
DocScrutinizer05they don't ask if anybody likes it, so they wouldn't even think about hiding01:57
HurrianMight work over there, and honestly their network is rootkitted at every single level so even if you used Gentoo on an OpenCores IP block your traffic would still be sniffed01:59
DocScrutinizer05you're trying to hide stuff when you expect the one you're hiding the stuff from doesn't expect it to be there already01:59
HurrianBut outside of China, everyone would just not touch it if it's revealed that it may have China rootkits inside.02:00
nox-what about all the huawai kit?02:00
wirrDocScrutinizer05: we've talked before regarding sd card issues. i've done dd read & write tests as we discussed, once through the n900s card slot / mass storage and using a card reader on a linux box.02:03
DocScrutinizer05my point still holds: there won't be any hidden functions in hw, and in sw it's very likely that they're not hidden but pretty obvious02:03
wirrnow the strange thing is - using card reader no errors at all02:04
wirron the phone errrors a plenty starting at transfers of about 20megs.02:04
DocScrutinizer05possibly different VCC02:04
DocScrutinizer05supply voltage02:04
wirrwhat do you think? just bad luck? some card defect which only shows on n900?02:04
DocScrutinizer05or different clock02:05
wirrhmm.. how could i verify supply voltage?02:05
wirror clock speed?02:05
DocScrutinizer05forget it, get another card02:05
ShadowJKWhat kind of card?02:05
wirrShadowJK: class 10 sandisk ultra 32gig02:05
DocScrutinizer0532G 1002:05
ShadowJKI ordered two different sandisks today :-)02:06
DocScrutinizer05not even sandisk verifies their cards that thoroughly02:06
DocScrutinizer05or it got damaged during transport02:06
ShadowJKthey have atleast 3 x 4 different "Class 10" ones now :-(02:06
ShadowJKwirr; what kernel?02:06
wirrShadowJK: power5102:07
wirrand cssu-thumb as well02:07
ShadowJKI wonder if pk includes the "class 10 fix" patch02:07
DocScrutinizer05now THAT would be interesting02:07
wirrpk should have it since r4802:07
wirrShadowJK: what kernel do you use?02:08
* ShadowJK switched to pk on main device 2 days ago02:08
wirrDoc, what do you mean?02:08
DocScrutinizer05wirr: could you - just for a short test - (install and) boot a stock kernel on a non-thumb system and do same tests again?02:09
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wirrhmmm... non-thumb system :-)02:09
wirryeah, can flash it quickly02:09
DocScrutinizer05you could probably use rescueOS for that02:09
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wirrwait... i can boot backupmenu using stock kernel02:10
DocScrutinizer05or flash, and after that restore from BM02:10
DocScrutinizer05or that :-)02:10
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ShadowJKI'd think pk would work more reliably, the original stock mmc/sd stuff that got patched was some bullshit "make it go faster" crap02:11
DocScrutinizer05just to make sure we got no glitch in KP or thumb02:11
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freemangordonShadowJK: the "class 10" patch came from upstream, as a result of ADATA not following some specs IIRC02:12
freemangordonNot that Nokia screwed it02:12
wirrfreemangordon: upstream meaning nokia or mainline linux kernel?02:13
freemangordonBTW even with "class 10" patch, I have i/o errors with ADATA card. When it is overheaten :D.02:14
freemangordonwirr: mainline02:14
freemangordonwirr: or it might be from Meego kernel, I cant recall right now02:15
ShadowJKfreemangordon; just the description of the stock code sounds wrong, some dynamic timeout thing?02:15
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freemangordonShadowJK: IIRC that's how it is supposed to be. According to the specs02:15
ShadowJKSpec sounds kinda buggy then :-)02:16
freemangordontimeout value depends on some parameter coming from the card02:16
* wirr is loosing a tear or two over flashing his n900 using stock kernel02:16
DocScrutinizer05I hope you did a BM backup first02:17
ShadowJKbtw, my adata card is working remarkably well in my N800 :D02:17
wirryeah - manually rebuilding my dm-crypt setup would take me 4 hours at least...02:17
freemangordonShadowJK: the new one?02:17
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DocScrutinizer05wirr: you could've booted rescueOS02:19
freemangordonit was 32G UHS-1? I was wondering if I should bye similar Samsung one I saw in a shop02:19 my N900 a Lexar 32GB class 10 works flawlessly since 6 months..02:19
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freemangordonthe question is - is it faster than class 2SanDisk on random io02:19
wirrthe sandisk ultra is uhs-1 i think02:20
freemangordonit is, so what?02:20
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freemangordonI have the impression all this class 100, UHS 200 etc is only marketing bullshit02:22
DocScrutinizer05it is02:22
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ShadowJKMy adata actually does substantially more IOPS than others02:23
xes...and sdxc?02:23
freemangordonShadowJK: compared to what others?02:23
xeslatest class 10 cards02:24
ShadowJKUh, sandisk c2, c4 ultra and c4 standard02:24
freemangordonxes: afaik sdxc is to the old std something similar to what is USB3 compared to USB202:25
ShadowJK(all my transcend/kingston c2-c10 being slower than the sandisk c2 and c4 ultra02:25
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freemangordonanyway, i'll wait for sandisk mobile ultra 64/128G (or similar) to hit the market here02:26
ShadowJKI ordered a 16g mobile ultra02:27
ShadowJKand a 16g mobile extreme02:27
freemangordonI'll wait for the benchmarks :)02:27
ShadowJKthe mobile ultra was "for android" and had marketing claims about improved app "startup and upgrade" and multitasking performance02:28
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freemangordonShadowJK: seems (according to some reviews) sandisk did their best to provide some acceptable level of random io performance02:29
ShadowJKWith stock swap algo, which Maemo4 still has, I get about 20-60 iops on the adata in "real life" use, with swap in use being 500M right now lol02:30
ShadowJKResponse time is 0-20 s right now02:31
ShadowJK(UI input)02:31
freemangordonnice :D02:32
ShadowJKwith other cards I've had, it'd rebooted at 300M, 2-4 iops and 60-7200s UI latency ;)02:32
freemangordontalking about latency... I did a visual comparison of startup times of phone-ui, contacts and conversations betweeen n900 and S302:34
freemangordonguess who is faster ;)02:34
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ShadowJKthe good old hand-cranked wood+bakelite phone?02:35
DocScrutinizer05LOL at 7200s latency02:35
freemangordonn900 was playing music via FMTX by the same time02:35
freemangordonShadowJK: exactly :D02:35
ShadowJKI have no idea really. Based on my quadcore tegra3 tablet, I'd guess it was pretty evenly matched?02:37
freemangordonwell, the S3 had only about 10 messages stored, with ~25 contacts.02:38
freemangordonTBH that pisses me off, how is that possible to have such a HW and to behave so (relatively to that HW) badly02:39
ShadowJKi know what you mean02:40
freemangordonI bet S3 has more horsepower than my old 2001 P4 2.2GHz laptop02:41
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freemangordon(which I am still usong as I refuse to swithch to 16/10 screen ;) )02:42
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wirrso... I've been running dd tests for 15 min now on stock (pr1.3) without any updates. so far no issues but i'll report back tomorrow when i've did read and write for the full 32gig.02:47
Hurrianfreemangordon, Samsung makes animations longer than they need to though02:48
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Hurrianthe comparison should be Maemo 5 with animations set to 0, and the stock Samsung ROM with the animations set to 002:50
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AndrewX192Is there a build of git-annex for N900?03:23
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merlin1991AndrewX192: even the builds of git itself are rather non-existing03:33
AndrewX192merlin1991: hmm, interesting03:36
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Sc0rpiusthat's how all phones can be saved03:40
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merlin1991nah I bet it will have stupid (c) canonical "design" decisions that make it not enjoyable for me03:41
robbiethe1stAs far as I'm concerned, I don't care... So long as I can get root etc, and load my own UI instead.03:42
* robbiethe1st roots for another hildon-UI phone.03:43
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Hurrianrobbiethe1st: let's hope for a GNU/Linux phone with real glibc, bionic is garbage.03:57
robbiethe1stWell, as far as I'm concerned, glibc, Busybox(at least) is a minimum03:57
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils04:12
merlin1991just sayin ;)04:12
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robbiethe1stAs far as I'm concerned, though, it's good enough. Plus, it means I can probably load in my own full bash/etc if I need it04:27
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DocScrutinizer05oh, hi merlin199104:32
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merlin1991hi there :)04:33
* merlin1991 spammed tmo and maemo-dev04:33
merlin1991let's see if we get fresh meat for our beloved cssu04:33
DocScrutinizer05aaaah :-D04:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah, we also need quite a number of maintainers for 'central services'04:35
DocScrutinizer05the central services stabilization unit04:36
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RST38hAll the way back in the 90s, Qualcomm approached Apple to suggest that it might want to put a radio in its Newton PDA. It could have led to the first ever iPhone two decades early but instead, Apple told Qualcomm to stick its radio chip somewhere else.13:24
* RST38h laughs satanically13:24
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ApicIs there an Android VM for N900?13:27
ApicI want to play Ingress13:27
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tadziknot a VM, but you can try NITDroid13:28
ApicI'll look at it, thanks!13:28
ApicIs it in extras-devel or do I need to browse?13:28
tadziknot sure. I think there is an installer in one of the repos13:30
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grummundHi all, can anyone offer some advice what to look out for when buying a used N900 ?14:10
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SpeedEvilbroken USB, or not connecting to cellular network seem to be main issues14:14
kerioalso check that the sensors for the camera lens, the backcover and the keyboard slider work correctly14:15
grummunddo i need to worry about hardware revision or is there only one?14:15
keriothere's plenty, but they're all good14:15
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kerioat least, none is specifically bad14:16
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souravfor hardware side look for usb,slide to unlock key,camera for scratches and also the battery14:20
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grummundit'll be from ebay but i can ask the seller.14:22
grummundinitially i need it primarilly for VoIP/SIP over wifi.  but with the idea of ultimately running debian on a pocket device.14:24
grummundafaict, VoIP/SIP should work right out of the box.14:24
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teotwakigrummund: you're going to be disappointed15:08
teotwakigrummund: VoIP/SIP is notoriously bad on the N900. A lot of packet loss, poor codec implementation, with essentially no support in hardware.15:09
teotwakigrummund: even skype is dodgy at best---if it even works at all ever since microsoft bought skype.15:09
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grummundteotwaki: that's sad. i thought it was going to be my dream phone15:17
Luke-Jrgrummund: N900 isn't a phone. If you expect it to be one, you will be disappointed.15:19
grummundwell yes i should say pocket computer with softphone15:20
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Hurriangrummund, you could always use a non-native SIP implementation15:21
grummundit's just for WLAN use, i probably won't put a SIM in it15:24
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grummundanyway thanks all for the advice.  i might give it a go and if it fails on SIP usability then i still have a cool device to play and hack on ;)15:29
SpeedEvilworks for me for so15:35
kerioteotwaki: afaik skype still works15:36
kerioand SIP is only notoriously bad if you try to use it with a wifi router that has poor powersaving15:36
kerioor if you try to use it over wifi while you're using a bluetooth headset15:37
kerio(because wifi+bluetooth at the same time is bad)15:37
jogauhm...yeah skype has worked ok for me too, but I'd just like to dismiss the comment that "N900 isn't a phone", since I use it as a phone just fine :p15:38
joga(although probably 99% of my use is not related to calling or receiving calls, but anyway)15:38
SkryI've been quite happy with N900 as a phone too15:41
* grummund read of someone running asterisk on the N900 itself15:43
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jonwilI have been using the N900 as my primary phone since I bought it15:55
jonwiland for that purpose (making phonecalls) it does great :)15:55
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int_uaapt-get install libqtm-12-*  doesn't work. Anyone knows why?16:17
ApicIs there Voice Guided Navigation yet for N900?16:25
teotwakigrummund: and running asterisk on the N900 is about as useful as growing dead kittens in the basement.16:25
teotwakigrummund: it's technologically cool, but it really doesn't provide anything in the end.16:25
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grummundteotwaki: i don't know much about asterisk i just read that16:28
grummundanyway i bought the N900 so no going back now :-)16:28
int_uateotwaki, grummund: yeah, that's the question I wanted to ask too. What's the point of Asterisk on N900?16:31
kontiosip gateway?16:32
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Skrygrummund: welcome aboard, you'll be spending some time here from now on :)17:07
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grummundindeed :)17:14
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teotwakibtw, off topic, but just for pure awesomeness:
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souravanyone help me in setting up ubuntu lucid desktop VM in virtualbox17:47
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DocScrutinizer05asterisk on N900 is as silly as a load balancer on your DSL-modemrouter18:11
DocScrutinizer05there's no point in it whatsoever18:12
DocScrutinizer05welcome grummund in this small but nice club :-)18:14
DocScrutinizer05btw I'm using built-in SIP via WRT54 AP all the time, sipgate account. Usually after the initial 2..3s to establish connection it works absolutely fine18:15
DocScrutinizer05I adoped the general method of answering like <pick up>"CHRSHDHSCRCK *cough* *cough* errrr YES?" which gives far end indication they should repeat their initial one or 2 seconds, or at least anticipate I didn't hear them18:18
RST38hInvariably works like shit here. Skype too.18:19
RST38hSkype is a bit better though, have ot give it a credit18:19
SpeedEvilI have used a'loadbalancer on my DSL18:19
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thedead1440skype on audio calls only is pretty nice; on video though audio transmitted is sometimes slow and the video res is pretty horrible...18:20
thedead1440but then at least it has skype video calls; something taken out of the N9 :(18:21
DocScrutinizer05SIP much depends on far end client. All my SIP calls are via sipgate gateway to landline/GSM, and it seems sipgate has pretty good b2bua on their gateways18:21
DocScrutinizer05for a plain SIP call to peer with arbitrary crappy SIP client mileage may vary massively18:22
SpeedEvilmy only use for sip is to my isps sip server18:23
SpeedEvilto a real phone number18:24
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DocScrutinizer05same here, and it seems that's what usually works flawlessly, more or less18:29
DocScrutinizer05except is not my ISP18:30
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wirrDocScrutinizer05: I've run a few tests with stock (pr1.3) kernel as discussed and couldn't reproduce the sd-card issues experienced on pk51/thumb. do we have a driver issue after all?18:50
DocScrutinizer05seems likely18:50
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keriowirr: :(18:51
kerioi mean, it's pretty good for you18:51
DocScrutinizer05we'd need to bisect it now, to find what's causing the problem in pk51/thumb combo18:52
wirrkerio: not especially... i'm very interested in having high quality community-driven maemo systems. i really don't care about stock.18:53
DocScrutinizer05if it turns out some valid bugfix in kp51 made a sleeping bug in your card raise its head, we might need a kernel module load option or a sysfs switch to select between two conflicting mutally exclusive paradigms regarding operation of that driver18:53
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wirrso - what can i contribute? i propose running the same tests on kp51 first on cssu-testing then on cssu-thumb18:54
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly18:54
DocScrutinizer05afk, bbl. sorry18:55
keriowirr: also having the full logs would be good18:55
wirrkerio: which ones? dmesg output?18:55
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kerioyep, and syslog too18:56
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wirrhmm... so I should set up a syslog daemon and log to a remote system? which one do you propose?18:57
keriowhy a remote system?18:57
keriojust install sysklogd18:57
wirrout of habbit... i usually don't write logs locally on embedded systems...18:58
kerioyou don't necessarily have to keep the daemon running all the time18:58
wirrbtw, i forgot to mention: the transmission errors occur as well if I try to start the newest nemo kernel18:59
kerioespecially because the syslogd in the repos doesn't rotate the logs except when it starts18:59
kerioso eventually it fills up the rootfs, as DocScrutinizer can tell you18:59
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wirrsound like hell alot of uptime :-)19:01
grummundDocScrutinizer05: i was also going to go with sipgate (in UK).19:01
keriowirr: it was a sad day for IroN900, yes :(19:01
keriolost ~200 days of uptime iirc19:01
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wirrkerio: so the test with stock userland and kp51 already fails...19:16
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keriowell, that's good19:16
keriomakes things easier :)19:16
keriowirr: try KP52 though19:16
kerioit'll probably not change anything, but it's still better to stay on the latest version19:17
keriowirr: what's in syslog regarding that?19:18
wirrjust a sec19:23
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wirrkerio: i've just noticed: while getting an i/o error on writing to mmcblk1, the logs show errors for mmcblk019:29
keriough, that might be because the uSD is actually mmcblk019:30
keriothey are swapped by udev19:30
wirrsorry, don't understand that...19:30
kerioat boot time, the uSD is mmcblk0 and the emmc is mmcblk119:31
kerioif you have a uSD inserted19:31
wirrah... so the kernel logging still sees it this way, while userspace addresses it the other way round?19:31
kerioi don't know, maybe19:32
kerioare you having trouble accessing your home or MyDocs?19:32
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wirrkerio: what about alignment? has data to be aligned on 4k blocks?19:34
keriomaybe something like aligning to 4M would help?19:34
kerioit would be a performance thing, though19:34
kerioit can't cause errors, microsds are supposed to be ideal block devices19:35
wirrhmm... it just seems to me the error occurs much more often when testing using this cmd: 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1' as when using 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=4096'19:36
keriowirr: hm19:36
kerioecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests19:37
kerioecho 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/slice_idle19:37
kerioas root19:37
kerioand then try again with the standard block size19:37
wirrdidn't you say before, the addresses mmcblk0/1 are swapped?19:39
keriogood point, i don't know which would be the right one19:40
keriodo it to mmcblk0 too19:40
kerio(it doesn't hurt, anyway - it helps, in fact)19:40
wirrtest is running...19:41
wirrwriting the full 32gig will obviously take a while - so far no errors19:43
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keriowirr: no error yet?19:52
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wirrkerio: still writing - no error yet20:27
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MSameeris extras-cauldron-builds down or is it just me missing something?20:35
MSameerlast emails in the archive are from december last year20:35
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f3bruarybest media player for n90020:42
f3bruaryGO !20:42
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DocScrutinizer51hooray, internet connection once more fecked on 2G, while 3G works20:47
f3bruarynever heard of that mediaplayer app20:48
DocScrutinizer51and no, I'm sure it's not the carrier's fault20:48
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DocScrutinizer51I honestly should do some forensiocs this time, since this is a FSCKNG ANNOYING bug20:50
DocScrutinizer51seems kinda reproducable by going to no-signal area for half an hour while connected via 2.5G20:52
DocScrutinizer51so it's somewhat in line with similar behavior on WLAN20:52
kerioMSameer: december last year is like three days ago dude20:55
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keriof3bruary: openmediaplayer, probably20:55
kerioit's basically a drop-in replacement for the stock media player20:56
DocScrutinizer51as if icd2 or whatever refuses to start a new association sequence while aborted 'dangling' timedout re-association for same connection still lingering on somewhere in stack20:56
f3bruarycool, thanks20:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: disconnect, kill sscd, kill icd2, start everything up again?20:56
MSameerkerio: true but I uploaded a package and the archive page didn't get updated so I was wondering20:56
MSameerkerio: I was expecting an email with the result of the build to be added to the page20:57
DocScrutinizer51kerio: wilco when @home20:57
MSameerso it might be an issue with the builder20:59
DocScrutinizer51last I heard was autobuilder has issues with web frontend21:00
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DocScrutinizer51bwahahaha 2G21:02
MSameerDocScrutinizer51: so how do i check the results ? :)21:02
DocScrutinizer51sorry nfc21:03
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DocScrutinizer05f3bruary: check trackerd config21:16
DocScrutinizer05f3bruary: I heard in CSSU it even works like supposed to, to exclude dirs from trackerd indexing21:17
DocScrutinizer05stock trackerd has a bug in this function to exclude dirs from indexing21:17
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keriowirr: did the bug *always* occur when doing that, before?21:46
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lnxmenWhat is the newest firmware for maemo?21:49
keriolnxmen: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo521:49
keriolatest stable21:50
wirrkerio: under power51/cssu-thumb: yes; under pk51/stock I just ran the tests i've told you about...21:50
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kerioand the bug didn't occur?21:56
keriotry restoring your cssu-thumb backup21:57
kerioand do it on that, to be sure21:57
kerioit shouldn't change anything21:57
keriomy guess is that the I/O scheduler on the n900 is so borked that eventually even the kernel stops giving a shit21:57
wirryes, i'll do that as soon as the full 32gig sequential write test on kp51/stock is finished...21:57
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wirr...running since 138 min...21:59
DocScrutinizer05kerio: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo5 is not exactly a firmware, if anything it's a SSU upgrade revision to the latest "firmware"21:59
keriowhat's a "firmware" on the n900?21:59
keriothere's nothing firm about the ubifs rootfs21:59
DocScrutinizer05pretty much an undefined term21:59
wirrcombo of kernel/rootfs and emmc filesystem?21:59
DocScrutinizer05if anything, then I'd call fiasco images "firmware"22:00
keriohell, on the first boot it copies and deletes a huge chunk of data22:00
keriowirr: a firmware can't really be the maemo rootfs22:00
kerioit's not firm!22:00
DocScrutinizer05technically you're correct22:00
DocScrutinizer05in common sense however people refer to images as firmware22:01
DocScrutinizer05"disk" images22:01
kerioclearly that means that we should start working on a fiasco image for CSSU stable22:01
lnxmenkerio: Can I find it on Nokia site?22:02
DocScrutinizer05I always supported that idea22:02
keriolnxmen: no, you have to flash PR1.3 and then do an upgrade22:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: see? ^^^ :-)22:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: >:c22:02
wirrlnxmen: latest global image on nokia is X-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin22:02
infobotwirr meant: lnxmen: latest global image on nokia is RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin22:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how do we do it, though? it's not trivial by any means22:03
DocScrutinizer05wirr: are you sure?22:03
DocScrutinizer05well, maybe it's correct22:03
infoboti heard phonecontrol is
lnxmenI'm downloading latest global22:03
DocScrutinizer052011.38 is already SSU-PR1.3.122:03
lnxmenbut speed is really slow22:04
lnxmen~35 kb/s22:04
wirrDoc, yep22:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: he said 3622:04
keriooh you mean that it's too low22:05
DocScrutinizer05I know to read22:05
keriowell, nokia is nokia22:05
kerioRX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-222:05
keriolnxmen: currently downloading at 1.3MB/s22:05
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is "OS 2009" the PR 1.0?22:06
wirrOS 2009 is fremantle22:06
DocScrutinizer05not sure22:06
keriooh, there's two of those22:06
kerioone is marked as "second"22:06
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wirrkerio: i'm starting to doubt that this write test will ever finish - the time it took so far amounts to a write speed of approx 3.5MB/s22:08
DocScrutinizer05it's all pretty precisely explained on22:08
wirrbut on the positive side: no errors so far ;-)22:08
infoboti guess cssu is
keriowirr: 3.5MB/s is about right, yes22:08
keriobut that's only because i told you the magic invocation rituals to get a decent I/O22:09
* wirr bows before kerio22:09
wirrso this is just what the n900's card reader/bus can deliver?22:09
DocScrutinizer05~tell lnxmen about cssu22:09
kerioPali: wirr has been having I/O problems on a uSD that have been "solved", maybe, with a couple of tweaks on the I/O scheduler - could you think about setting those as default?22:10
kerioask ShadowJK for the details, they're his22:10
Palikerio, I do know what linux sheduler doing and changing default configuration because XYZ wrote "it is cool" is not very good...22:11
PaliI do not know sideeffects...22:11
freemangordonkerio: I agree we should do something for WD kicking, but very carefully ;)22:12
DocScrutinizer05do sth about WD kicking?? WTF?!22:12
kerioit's not WD kicking, he was getting IO errors22:12
wirrPali, kerio: Anyway I'll try the tweaks for a week or two on pk51/cssu-thumb22:13
DocScrutinizer05if kernel gets so busy so it can't even kick WD, then we have other problems to solve than change the WD timeout22:13
keriothe WD wasn't even considered here!22:13
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: could swappolube set the parameters accordingly?22:14
keriowell, i'm not sure about slice_idle22:15
DocScrutinizer05then what'S the problem?22:15
kerio...wirr was getting *errors*22:15
DocScrutinizer05yes, sure22:15
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DocScrutinizer05it's a singulary report though, so far22:16
kerioIO-related lockups and general slugginess is far from being unheard of22:16
freemangordonkerio: I am getting errors from my ADATA when it is overheated ;)22:16
kerioget a real uSD22:16
keriolike, a sandisk one22:16
freemangordonkerio: are you playing smart?22:17
keriomaybe a little :322:17
DocScrutinizer05if those new parameters would evidently improve perfomance for everybody, get thorough tests for side effects, and we also see more of those reports about errors, we might consider making them a kernel or CSSU default22:17
freemangordonthe point is that faulty card could lead to io errors22:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: :nod:22:17
keriocard works fine on a card reader, fails on two separate N900s, seems to work with those tweaks22:18
freemangordonbut we should find a way to test them22:18
freemangordonkerio: i'll label that card faulty then22:18
freemangordonor at least "incompatible"22:19
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: we're not going to taint kernel to make defect hardware work, as long as that defect hardware is not shipped by the dozens of millions to the general public22:20
DocScrutinizer05and even then...22:20
DocScrutinizer05basically we assume somebody used his head to find optimum values for IO parameters, for a set of most common usecases22:21
keriothat's a *reeeeeeeeeally* bold assumption22:21
DocScrutinizer05if we find that's actually not the case, we have to do proper evaluation and verification of our new set of parameters22:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that is not the case, n900 is using the default kernel scheduler values for HDD22:22
keriothat's why i asked Pali if he'd /consider/ that22:22
DocScrutinizer05fixing a fringe case for one defect uSD is not a good reason to force new IO parameters on everybody22:22
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: though I strongly agree we should be very careful with those22:22
Palican somebody check if ELF binary is thub compiled?22:23
freemangordonPali: readelf?22:23
DocScrutinizer05Pali: there's not any *decent* test22:23
freemangordoni.e. readelf -a $YOUR_COOL_BIN22:23
DocScrutinizer05I posted a shell oneliner in #maemo-ssu quite a long time ago22:24
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: there is, readelf22:24
PaliI need to know if this diablo nokia closed lib is thumb or not:
DocScrutinizer05and what will that tell you?22:24
keriofreemangordon: well, it doesn't really help with self-generated code22:24
DocScrutinizer05it didn't for modest when it been fekked22:25
Pali$ readelf -a /usr/lib/icd2/ | grep thumb22:25
DocScrutinizer05the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr22:25
Palino output22:25
Paligrep -i --> also no output22:26
kerioPali: heh, i was about to say that22:26
freemangordonPali: grep THUMB22:26
freemangordonit is in uppercase22:26
Pali-i --> case insensitive22:26
freemangordonhowever, i'll check it for you22:26
DocScrutinizer05the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr22:26
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freemangordon <Pali> $ readelf -a /usr/lib/icd2/ | grep thumb22:27
freemangordonno -i22:27
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 21:26:08] <Pali> grep -i --> also no output22:27
Pali[21:26:08] <Pali> grep -i --> also no output22:27
DocScrutinizer05the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr22:27
keriohm, the scrutinizer is stuck again22:27
* kerio kicks DocScrutinizer05 22:28
PaliDocScrutinizer05, do you know if diablo was thumb compiled?22:28
keriothat should've fixed it22:28
DocScrutinizer05I thought it got stuck on the way from your rhetina to your brain (you got a brain, do you?)22:28
freemangordonPali: wait, it is not readelf22:28
freemangordonsorry, my bad22:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: there's no need to be rude :<22:29
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DocScrutinizer05just kidding22:29
Palihm, autobuilder not working...22:30
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PaliI uploaded wide-dhcpv6 20080615-11.1maemo1 via dput and nothing22:30
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freemangordonPali: well, it is readelf, but firle has no attributes22:31
freemangordon*the fiel22:31
freemangordonPali: what was this build with?22:31
Palinokia binary22:32
Palinobody know22:32
freemangordonreadelf -A libicd_network_ipv6.so22:32
freemangordonAttribute Section: aeabi22:32
freemangordonFile Attributes22:32
freemangordonand then nothing22:32
ShadowJKpali / wirr: I remember wirr's read errors from yesterday.. Anyone care to summarize what you've done and current statsus? :)22:32
ShadowJK(trying to fish a summary before I scroll bavk and start replying yo things 24h ago)22:33
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 21:31:20] <DocScrutinizer05>
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 21:33:35] <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ that's not yet the ultimate check, which more was with a regex checking for [13579bdf] as last digit of an addr22:34
freemangordonPali: launching IDA22:34
wirrShadowJK: flashed stock pr1.3; seq read/write tests successful22:34
wirreg no errors22:35
freemangordonPali: do we know the target CPU at least?22:35
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I don't know if diablo been thombified, but I honestly doubt it22:35
wirrShadowJK: upgraded to pk51, I/O errors after a few hundred megs of writing22:35
Palifreemangordon, something for N8x022:35
PaliI really have no idea22:35
DocScrutinizer05~wtf eg22:36
infobotEG: evil grin22:36
PaliI copied it and it worked on n900 with n900's version of icd222:36
wirrShadowJK: then applied some IO scheduler tweaks from kerio, which apparently originally came from you22:36
Palibut somebody on TMO thread wrote that his icd2 crashed with illegal instruction22:36
kerioShadowJK: queue size and slice_idle22:36
wirrsince then 32 gig seq writing test still running22:36
wirr~180 min, which amounts to somewhat < 3MB/s22:37
wirrbut no I/O errors so far22:37
DocScrutinizer05Pali: that's pretty much a good indication that it actually been a thumb instruction22:38
DocScrutinizer05wirr: what been your original write thruput before it threw IO errors?22:39
wirrDoc: unfortunately didn't write it down, I remember sth >4MB/s22:39
freemangordonPali: yes, it is thumb22:39
Palifreemangordon, so for that we need thumb kernel...22:40
ShadowJKwirr/kerio: 4M alignment seems common now. I've also seen 8M for a 64g sd22:40
DocScrutinizer05so higher?22:40
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how freemangordon finally found out about thombiness of that binary22:41
DocScrutinizer05doing what exactly?22:41
freemangordonwhat? disassembling ;)22:42
DocScrutinizer05and then?22:42
Palifreemangordon, so what to do? Adding some thumb dependency to package?22:42
Palior not?22:42
freemangordonPali: for sure22:42
Paliwhat is good solution for pushing thumb compiled application into extras-devel?22:43
ShadowJKHm, if dd without bs fails, it's likely that the card does a full read-modify-write cycle for every 512 bytes, so 4M read/write each time or even worse, might slow it down so that it blows through timeouts?22:43
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and after that looking at the disassembly - instructons size, address being odd, etc22:44
DocScrutinizer05>>...address being odd,...<< :-D22:44
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DocScrutinizer05thankyou :-)22:44
wirrShadowJK: i'm not able to judge that22:45
wirrbut maybe I can run additional tests?22:45
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 21:27:39] <DocScrutinizer05> the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr22:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but actually I prefer to look at instructions size22:45
Palifreemangordon, can you check if "kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround" is good dependency?22:45
freemangordonPali: hmm, wait22:46
freemangordonwell, usually I use "kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround[armel]"22:47
PaliI have Architecture: armel22:47
freemangordonbut having in mind you don't have the real source package22:47
PaliI adding dependency to metapackage ipv6-support22:48
freemangordonPali: should work22:48
ShadowJKI've seen this interesting thing on recent sandisk (and adata), where the card seems atleast for a moment able to keep track of lots of halfwritten blocks.. I wonder if certain IO patterns cause this prepared-work or deferred-work to collapse, forcing the card to do some massive gigabyte-worth of housekeeping tasks all of the sudden, resulting in timeouts22:49
Palifreemangordon, but problem is that autobuilder not building package...22:49
ShadowJKthat it works on stock and not pk makes little sense to me though22:50
Paliabout 30 minutes ago I uploaded package and still nothing...22:50
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's been my very initial assumption22:50
Paliis there any log from autobuilder?ň22:50
PaliDocScrutinizer05 ^^^22:50
ShadowJKwirr; btw, get iostat (sysstat in tools repo, iirc), "iostat -x -k -d mmcblk0 mmcblk1 10", the bigger the avgrq-sz, the better 512k and up is especially good22:51
M4rtinKPali: the extras cauldron mailing list ?22:51
PaliM4rtinK, can you give me link?22:51
DocScrutinizer05Pali: somebody else asked same thing ~2h ago. I still have no idea about autobuilder22:51
PaliI found this:
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 19:56:50] <MSameer> kerio: true but I uploaded a package and the archive page didn't get updated so I was wondering22:52
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DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 19:59:21] <MSameer> so it might be an issue with the builder22:53
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-03 20:00:28] <DocScrutinizer51> last I heard was autobuilder has issues with web frontend22:53
MSameerso far nothing from autobuilder :(22:53
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Palithat archive is out of date: Ending: Sun Dec 16 19:26:07 EET 201222:53
Palibut last package was builded: 2012-12-27 10:4222:54
DocScrutinizer05isn't that roundabout the date when infra been set into r7o mode?22:54
DocScrutinizer05since 12-27 Nemein might actually be busy migrating autobuilder, I don't know22:56
DocScrutinizer05I honestly would appreciate they would update us more frequently about status of migration22:56
DocScrutinizer05and in more detail22:57
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PaliI want to update ipv6 support...22:59
Palifinally icd working with ipv6 only networks (radvd or dhcpv6)23:00
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freemangordonPali: why don't ask jonwil to RE that lib :P23:12
Palifreemangordon, because it worked on my device :D23:12
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Palitoday I reread tmo posts and found some sigill23:12
freemangordonI see23:13
Palifreemangordon and now ipv6 support working fine23:13
Palibut you need kernel with ipv6 support23:13
Paliso kernel-power23:13
Paliand last kernel-power has also thumb patch23:13
Paliso I do not see any problems...23:13
freemangordonPali: we need to restart the work on kernel in CSSU23:13
Palifreemangordon, I changed some patches in kp5223:14
Paliand I want to release it23:14
freemangordonmerlin1991: has setup mediawiki on his server, we can use that23:14
freemangordonPali: ok23:14
Paliafter that I merge kernel-power to cssu git kernel repo23:14
Paliand then we can start discussion about patches for new kernel in cssu23:14
Palifreemangordon, btw I can start ikiwiki if needed23:15
Pali(good wiki sw which store pages in git :D)23:15
freemangordonPali: it does not matter for me, as long as we are making progress23:15
Paliso you can use it offline :-)23:15
Palibut first I need autobuilder!23:16
freemangordonPali: windoze Xp here, lets stick to HTML :)23:16
freemangordonPali: afaik dput should work23:16
Paliwithout it I cannot push kernel-power to extras-devel23:16
Palifreemangordon 1 hour ago I pushed wide-dhcpv6 package23:16
Palinothing happened23:17
PaliI pushed version 200823:17
Palibut there is only old:
Palialso nothing here:
Paliand nothhing here:
Paliaaa here is: :-)23:19
freemangordonsee the top in the queue :P23:20
Palibut why is not buidling?23:20
Palior is that list of waiting packages?23:20
Palithen something happened: 2013-01-01T00:03:29Z23:21
Palinew year?23:21
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Palinokia turned off buidling machine?23:21
PaliDocScrutinizer05 ^^^23:21
wirr~wtf NFC23:22
infobotNFC: no fucking clue23:22
ShadowJKThe stock hsmmc data timeout code looks bizarre :/23:24
Palimissing also :-(23:27
Paliwide-dhcpv6 version 200823:27
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Palinow going offline, bye23:27
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M4rtinKany rought timeline on the autobuilder btw ? :)23:27
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: what particularly? (not that I knew of *any* timeline for autobuilder)23:38
M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: provided they don't fix it themselves, I'd guess it is dependent on HIF getting access to the machine running it23:44
M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: when would should that be, cca ?23:45
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, can't parse your last 2 posts23:45
DocScrutinizer05 has a r/o notice23:46
DocScrutinizer05I'm more puzzled that autobuilder still doing *anything*23:47
M4rtinKI mean when the Hildon Foundation gets access to the machines running the Maemo infrastructure23:47
DocScrutinizer05that's unclear, and ATM HiFo dropped the whole migration on council's feet basically23:47
DocScrutinizer05HiFo is in negotiations with Nokia about legalese stuff. Once those papers are signed, hiFo will become owner of the domains/URLs23:49
M4rtinKwell, its at least online :)23:50
M4rtinKand TMO is working23:50
DocScrutinizer05Nemein is busy moving infra from current servers to some interim vservers (thus the r/o notice), and once Nemein installed the RX300 irons in colo hoster's racks and set up the OS on them, they move the vservers to those irons23:50
M4rtinKbut IMHO the Wiki & autobuilder outage is harming the community quite a lot23:50
M4rtinKI hope we end with at least some semi-interested people with root access to those machines23:51
DocScrutinizer05TMO will work until 2013-01-20 the least23:51
wirrShadowJK: probably you want me to run iostat while writing to the sd card?23:52
M4rtinKso that bit rot & related issues can be handled in some timely manner23:52
ShadowJKit was more of a FYI than a request for information :)23:52
DocScrutinizer05it's completely unclear when/if Nemein will make those vservers the ones the URLs are pointing at23:53
wirr:-) of course...23:53
DocScrutinizer05it's also unclear when the current servers are expected to go offline23:53
M4rtinKits quite frustrating if something quite crucial stops working and there is no-on to contact :)23:53
M4rtinKoh, so its happening in parallel - good to know23:54
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: the idea is to rsync/cp the current servers' content to the new machines, and eventually switch the URL DNS pointers23:55
M4rtinKBTW, any info about the COBS ( infrastructure ?23:55
DocScrutinizer05obviously until that switch you need to freeze old machines or they will render new machines obsolete23:55
M4rtinKlast I heard it should run at least until about March/February23:55
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm not up-to-date regarding the meego stuff23:56
M4rtinKso autobuilder is probably also offline23:56
M4rtinKnp :)23:56
fastaDo N900 applications also all steal all contact data like just about all Android applications do?23:56
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M4rtinKBTW, what about the Fremantle OBS that was put on ice ? :)23:57
DocScrutinizer05(autobuilder) as mentioned above I'm puzzled that it's obviously not (completely) offline23:57
DocScrutinizer05resp r/o23:57
M4rtinKwell, it kinda still worked recently23:57
M4rtinKjust the Web UI was borked since November23:57
DocScrutinizer05yes, and that's basically a flaw23:58
M4rtinKbut scping source packages worked for some23:58
M4rtinK(not for me - public key error :D )23:58
fastaDoes everyone have me on ignore?23:58
fastaIt shouldn't be a hard question to answer for anyone who knows anything about the device.23:59
DocScrutinizer05fasta: no, and no23:59
wirrShadowJK: seems not so bad...23:59
fastaDocScrutinizer05: thank you23:59
wirrbut unfortunately now i got i/o errors again, this time even using the scheduling tweaks on kp5123:59
fastaI don't understand why the mass buys spyware on a massive scale then.23:59

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