| kerio | a bl-5j goes from 4.2V to 3.2V, pretty much | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kerio | 100% to 6% | 00:00 |
| nox- | ~flatbatrecover | 00:00 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 00:00 |
| kerio | *kinda* | 00:00 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: correct? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, correct | 00:02 |
| lnxmen | I'll check the voltage one more time... | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | flatbatrecover only works with genuine nokia fastcharger | 00:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: isn't 2.8 near the level where the cells get damaged? | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2.7V is pretty much where protection circuit inside battery kicks in | 00:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: :nod: ^^^ | 00:03 |
| kerio | stupid protection circuits not allowing people to fuck up their batteries if they want :C | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq | 00:04 |
| infobot | well, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 00:04 |
| lnxmen | hmm | 00:05 |
| lnxmen | Now Voltage is about 2.9 | 00:05 |
| lnxmen | I found other battery | 00:05 |
| lnxmen | which looks like bl-5j | 00:05 |
| lnxmen | and voltage is 3.7 | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf | 00:06 |
| lnxmen | So I will try with other battery | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | p.5 | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | p.9 "CT-N3650HX-1" | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | p.14 >> 2.300±0.058 V Over-discharge detection voltage << | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | of course that's not a BL-5J | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the basic operation should be rather similar | 00:09 |
| lnxmen | I don't think so it's a battery fault | 00:10 |
| lnxmen | when I want to charge it | 00:10 |
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| lnxmen | there is now orange? color | 00:10 |
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| kerio | solid orange? | 00:10 |
| lnxmen | no* | 00:10 |
| kerio | oh :( | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover | 00:10 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 00:11 |
| lnxmen | yes | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia fatscharger! | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fast even | 00:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the "1 minute" to discharge everything? because it will require a lot more than that if you have a working bupbat | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, not really | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's to reset from e.g overvoltage cutout | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or dunnowhat | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: will only work with original Nokia fastcharger | 00:13 |
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| kerio | and every standard musb charger with enough amps | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a USB cable to PC, 3rd party chargers, or a broken charger, you don't see steady amber | 00:14 |
| lnxmen | I have original charger | 00:14 |
| kerio | soooooooo, basically the nokia fastcharger and very little else, yes | 00:14 |
| r00t|home | and definition of nokia fast-charger is what? D+/D- shorted and 1000mA? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup, pretty much | 00:15 |
| kerio | 1.1A i think | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1+A | 00:15 |
| kerio | or more, of course | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess your battery is broken maybe | 00:17 |
| kerio | how many amps at 5V can you reasonably get from a wall socket? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: ^^^ | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: UH?? | 00:17 |
| r00t|home | kerio: enough to MELT the phone into a puddle of metal and burned plastic? | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know any wall socket with 5V | 00:18 |
| kerio | i meant with a transformer | 00:18 |
| r00t|home | see above | 00:18 |
| kerio | a reasonably-sized one | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that obviously depends on transformer | 00:18 |
| Belzebub | kerio: i bought goclever wall charger 5V 2A | 00:18 |
| lnxmen | DocScrutinizer05: ? | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: hm? | 00:19 |
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| r00t|home | kerio: then it depends on your definiton of "reasonable" | 00:19 |
| kerio | lnxmen: we're thinking broken battery | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: I guess your battery is broken maybe | 00:19 |
| kerio | or at best, a really depleted battery | 00:19 |
| lnxmen | Hmm why? | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a broken battery might cause steady amber on flatbatrecover to never show up | 00:20 |
| lnxmen | I have another battery, I checked with it - and it also doesn't work | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since bq24150 tries to charge, detects battery defect, and stops. takes ~1ms | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or 20 | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno | 00:20 |
| kerio | lnxmen: :( | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you're facing *real* problems | 00:21 |
| kerio | lnxmen: have you tried removing your sim and the uSD? | 00:22 |
| lnxmen | yes | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should check in PC's syslog when plugging your N900 with semi-decently charged battery to USB of PC | 00:22 |
| lnxmen | there is no sim and no SD | 00:22 |
| lnxmen | dmesg? | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, should work too | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though i don't know a PC that doesn't have syslog | 00:23 |
| kerio | my n900! | 00:23 |
| lnxmen | okay, let's do it :D | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | something /var/log/* | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | either syslog, or messages | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other flenames are possible | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | file* | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there should be some notification about N900 ROMBOOT | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detected on USB | 00:24 |
| lnxmen | ROMBOOT? | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you plug in the N900 in powered down state | 00:25 |
| lnxmen | My N900 doesn't give me any signs of live ;d | 00:25 |
| lnxmen | dmesg gives no informations about USB plugged device (N900) | 00:25 |
| lnxmen | but I did it | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a 'good' battery? on USB? | 00:25 |
| lnxmen | yes, on USB, but with 'bad' battery ;d | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bad battery won't allow device to boot to any conscious state | 00:26 |
| lnxmen | and good battery too | 00:27 |
| lnxmen | it's must be hardware fault | 00:27 |
| lnxmen | it* | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure USB logs to dmesg | 00:27 |
| lnxmen | hmm | 00:27 |
| lnxmen | hmm | 00:28 |
| lnxmen | I plugged game controler via USB | 00:28 |
| lnxmen | and in dmesg I can see some informations about it | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.536116] usb 1-1: new high speed USB device number 13 using ehci_hcd | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651496] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106 | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651505] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=0 | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651512] usb 1-1: Product: Nokia USB ROM | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651518] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Nokia | 00:30 |
| lnxmen | When my N900 was working I had similar messages | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on inserting battery, after I wondered why it played dead bug on plugging USB to PC | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same moment I inserted battery, tail -f /var/log/messages spits out above lines | 00:31 |
| lnxmen | it's this same messages like in dmesg | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need a proper battery to test | 00:32 |
| lnxmen | okay | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I still blame battery, and honestly I don't trust your replacement battery, even when it 'looks similar' | 00:33 |
| lnxmen | tomorrow I'll try to arrange it | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the USB test has the advantage of not depending on powerbutton and rootfs | 00:34 |
| lnxmen | what mean with USB test? | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the test you just did | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's actually hardly any more basic test - except flatbatrecover which should always work, give battery, device and charger are OK | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the steady amber should come up at least shortly for any battery too low to boot to NOKIA bootscreen | 00:38 |
| lnxmen | even if hardware is broken? | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even if CPU is defect, yes | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just one small chip (well actually 2) and battery nad USB port that are needed, and of course the LED | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an unplugged or broken flex cable between screen and body would also cause LED to not light up anymore | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but unless you inserted a credit card into the slot between keyboard and screen, it's hard to figure how that cable could get unplugged | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope you had no card of any kind in that pocket while skiing? | 00:42 |
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| lnxmen | yes, I had only N900 in pocket | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a proper spare battery | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or try charging the one you have in another compatible phone | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 5800 for example | 00:45 |
| lnxmen | hmm | 00:45 |
| lnxmen | but how battery could broke during falls? | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ iirc | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LiIon don't like hard impact | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also don't like cold | 00:47 |
| lnxmen | 2C? Is it cold for LiIon? | 00:47 |
| kerio | 2C is cold for humans! | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really, but a 'weak' battery may break on it | 00:47 |
| kerio | why were you outside in the snow instead of being on a warm beach? | 00:47 |
| lnxmen | inside the jacket was more warm | 00:48 |
| lnxmen | and I prespired | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, check your battery | 00:48 |
| lnxmen | okay | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2.7V also indicates fatal hw defect | 00:48 |
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| kerio | or a broken multimeter :) | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 00:49 |
| lnxmen | xD | 00:50 |
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| lnxmen | Anyway having Linux in phone is a wonderful thing :D | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll hardly find anybody arguing that, in here | 00:51 |
| Aoyagi | That's what some Android people claim too. | 00:51 |
| tadzik | I think it's mostly a matter of unix-ish userspace than linux itself | 00:52 |
| kerio | *coffcoffBUSYBOXcoffcoff* | 00:52 |
| jaska | lousybox <.< | 00:52 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, i was reading a bit of lkml today | 00:52 |
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| kerio | apparently linus is getting annoyed at udev/systemd | 00:53 |
| Theorbo | I'd like to get a consensus of what most of you are most excited about or interested in - FFOS, Android, Nemo, SailFish, Ubuntu Phone/Mobile? What do you see yourself running later this year or early next year? | 00:53 |
| kerio | Theorbo: ffos? | 00:53 |
| Theorbo | FireFox (I just included it because it is opensource) | 00:53 |
| kerio | oh | 00:54 |
| kerio | so far, i see myself running maemo fremantle | 00:54 |
| kerio | :s | 00:54 |
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| Theorbo | I'm currently a Maemo user. I have ignored Harmattan because of Aegis. I was looking forward to SailFish but now I feel very confident it is going to be something controlled by the desires of Chinese parties that Jolla has involved itself with in wanting to be a major player. | 00:55 |
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| Theorbo | As for Ubuntu's Phone solution - I worry that Canonical is growing to become a company that can't be trusted with user private data. I think they have spent the last few years seducing the opensource community with a reliable, easy, stable solution and now they are going to go really commercial. I don't have a problem with commercial as long as the cards are laid on the table. Commercial, today, means selling of user data. | 00:57 |
| lnxmen | What about circuit? | 00:58 |
| Aoyagi | Oh I agree with that so much. | 00:58 |
| tadzik | I'm kind of interested in Sailfish, but, well, if it were available that'd be great | 00:58 |
| lnxmen | I have plugged charger and N900 is warm now | 00:58 |
| tadzik | "we'll show a phone in Q4 2012!". Oh, great, N950 running Nemo on steroids | 00:59 |
| tadzik | the ui is neat, agreed | 00:59 |
| tadzik | as for selling users' data, I've heard this saying "if you're not paying for the product, then you're actually the product someone pays for", or something like that | 01:00 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo, the solution is simple - make sure that Canonical doesn't use a Canonical search API | 01:00 |
| Hurrian | make it directly call Amazon/Google/*'s search API, but not Canonical | 01:01 |
| Hurrian | much like the situation on Android, don't trust your manufacturer with your data | 01:01 |
| Theorbo | Hurrian - I worry that parts of the platform will be close source | 01:01 |
| Theorbo | I worry that those parts could hide worrying things. | 01:01 |
| Theorbo | I am a security consultant. I have worked in a few industries. You should think less of tech companies than you do. | 01:02 |
| Theorbo | user data is becoming the new prime realestate | 01:02 |
| Theorbo | indeed, it has been for some time | 01:02 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo, well, let's see how many components are closed, first. | 01:02 |
| Theorbo | If canonical was open and just put amazon, netflix, and ebay shortcuts et cetera on the default install I would not mind in the slightest. | 01:03 |
| Hurrian | It's obvious Canonical wants to go commercial, but to be evil or not is to be seen. | 01:03 |
| Theorbo | If they got paid to include FireFox OS as the default or similar - I don't care | 01:04 |
| Theorbo | If they start hiding things in code, I get nervous | 01:04 |
| Theorbo | And I get nervous that I won't know for sure. | 01:04 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo: and that's why you look for the binary blobs first | 01:05 |
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| Theorbo | We need something like Mer/Nemo that opensource user will actually put their wallets behind enough that it produces a solid, usable day to day OS | 01:05 |
| Hurrian | If their fancy UI is still based on desktop Unity+Qt though, it'll be open, and then you can just rip out the binary bits with apt-get purge. | 01:05 |
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| Hurrian | That sounds like Sailfish. | 01:06 |
| Hurrian | (although, the binary components of which are still unknown) | 01:06 |
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| M4rtinK | well, Unity actually doesn't use Qt on the desktop :) | 01:09 |
| freemangordon | I was wondering that one too | 01:09 |
| M4rtinK | even for the 2d stuff | 01:09 |
| M4rtinK | they switched to lvmpipe for that IIRC | 01:09 |
| freemangordon | how exactly is Qt/QML integrated with GTK3 stuff | 01:10 |
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| Theorbo | Hurrian - was your statement "That sounds like Sailfish" referring to my statement? | 01:11 |
| Theorbo | gordon - nice name | 01:11 |
| M4rtinK | freemangordon: not at all ? :P | 01:12 |
| Theorbo | :) | 01:12 |
| freemangordon | M4rtinK: that wouldn't make sense :) | 01:13 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo: yup. | 01:16 |
| freemangordon | Theorbo: you know who Gordon Freeman is? | 01:17 |
| Theorbo | I disagree. I think Jolla fancies itself as a developer company but I think that those at the top have been seduced by "business power" and are very involved with in China in a way that I'm not thrilled with. | 01:17 |
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| Hurrian | as in putting interception capabilities into the OS, etc? | 01:18 |
| Theorbo | I think that they are painted as this MeeGo revival team based around opensource lovers. I think that they are actually willing to do anything to make grounds in market share in China. | 01:19 |
| Theorbo | At least those at the top. | 01:19 |
| Theorbo | All that I am saying is that I don't like the path they are taking and that to be a success in China (when starting in China) often involves less than noble concessions. | 01:20 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo: well, if those two vendors are not to be trusted, then how about GNOME3 (is mutter fixed for GLES yet?) | 01:21 |
| Hurrian | GNOME3 + Mer providing the middleware | 01:21 |
| M4rtinK | well, the more open, the harder is it to build in some interception backdoors into software | 01:22 |
| M4rtinK | doesn't help with hardware too much :) | 01:22 |
| Theorbo | I am talking about many things | 01:23 |
| M4rtinK | Hurrian: mutter uses Clutter | 01:23 |
| M4rtinK | Clutter runns on both OpenGL & OpenGL ES | 01:23 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 01:23 |
| M4rtinK | I find it a bit obsoleted by QML though | 01:24 |
| freemangordon | M4rtinK: my experience with QML is close to nothing, but I have some concerns about its performance | 01:25 |
| Hurrian | M4rtinK, as for the hardware blobs, only the closed radio firmware is worrying | 01:25 |
| freemangordon | yes, we were told Qt5 will be the next best thing after the sliced bread, but still | 01:25 |
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| Theorbo | They even have their data centre in China now. | 01:26 |
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| Theorbo | When I execute apt-get, I don't like that path passing through the Great Wall. | 01:27 |
| Theorbo | (sorry - pkg_add - BSD user here) | 01:27 |
| Hurrian | wait, Jolla hosts in China now? | 01:28 |
| Theorbo | If I am not mistaken, that is the plan. | 01:28 |
| Theorbo | And if you would like to argue about compiling form source et cetera, I don't imagine everyone is intending to do that even if it will be easily done | 01:29 |
| M4rtinK | freemangordon: well clutter seems to handle large images better | 01:29 |
| Theorbo | I am hugely concerned with the hardware aspect as well | 01:29 |
| M4rtinK | freemangordon: maybe slower but still handles them fine, while in QML it degrades both visually and in performance once (i assume) max texture size is reached | 01:30 |
| freemangordon | M4rtinK: I guess that depends on driver, but still, if clutter can do it, why QML can't. Speaking for Fremantle ofc | 01:31 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo: well, let's see what parts of the OS require user data. | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry about hw, make them send my a prototype and schematics | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D | 01:32 |
| M4rtinK | yep, my experience is also from fremantle | 01:32 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but you have one :P | 01:32 |
| Hurrian | and then, you know, not use them. | 01:32 |
| Hurrian | because as we all know from Android and iOS, apps for websites (Facebook/Skype/G+) aren't exactly secure. | 01:33 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: iirc you have n950, aren't you? | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: one of the future Jollaphones? nah! | 01:33 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no, n950 | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *honestly* doubt Jollaphone will look anything like N950 | 01:33 |
| Theorbo | Doc - my point is that Jolla won't be the kind of company that sends schematics out | 01:33 |
| Theorbo | that is what they have been painted as - that is not the direction they are going. | 01:34 |
| Hurrian | They have to send out service manuals sometime in the future. | 01:34 |
| freemangordon | hmm, which raises the question - who will support the devices in warranty? | 01:34 |
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| freemangordon | (assuming such will be sold in europe) | 01:35 |
| kerio | just make devices that don't break, problem solved | 01:35 |
| Theorbo | I'd like to be very blunt. China - as in Chines Authorities (the guys infamous for doing less than moral things) have been wanting an OS for China. It is very much a government initiative and not simply because they don't want foreign companies taking out profits. | 01:35 |
| freemangordon | kerio: heh? | 01:35 |
| Theorbo | It is a nationalistic initiative with hidden undertones | 01:35 |
| Hurrian | kerio, going by the team's track record for RX-51 USB ports, RM-680 LCD screens and RM-696 USB doors, that's a tall order | 01:36 |
| Theorbo | If Jolla has been rubbing elbows over there for a year - as they bragged about doing - they might be lined up to fill that spot | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Theorbo: well, not much I could answer, except "let's wait and see" | 01:36 |
| Theorbo | And if they are the platform that the government has been wanting - you can bet on something being fishy in some part of the stack - from software to hardware | 01:36 |
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| Theorbo | there will be something. The Chinese have shown over and over that that is their cup of tea. This is not some anti-Chinese rambling. It is the fact of things. | 01:37 |
| Theorbo | Doc - the point is we really won't know for sure. You have to judge by the surroundings | 01:37 |
| Theorbo | and the surroundings are a Finnish group moving over to China playing ball on every level as 95 percent of their funding comes from Chinese companies (that are VERY influenced by the government) | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | And also the Americans, like when Boeing overhauled China's presidential jet, suddenly hundreds of undocumented microphones, recorders, and transmitters had been installed ;) | 01:38 |
| Theorbo | and even without the funding - China is the market that the Jolla execs want to cut their teeth on | 01:39 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo: well of course we can't know for sure now, but once either the Sailfish platform is available for Mer Core or the devices get released, then we can take a peek through it, and decide if it is yet another mobile cancer or otherwise. | 01:39 |
| Theorbo | If they have aspirations of becoming the guys they have worked for for so long, human nature will surrender morals to whatever party they have to deal with in the red nation | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | China and India are also interesting in that Google and Nokia are fucking it up there, they don't have any way to bill people, so appstore piracy is the norm :) | 01:40 |
| Theorbo | Shadow - I'm not saying that the West doesn't do similar. The benefit of the west is that they are mildly more likely to focus on foreign government whereas China is known for setting sights on everything , foreign/local civlian/government | 01:40 |
| Hurrian | Although if China wanted one botnet to control the Chinese, one has to wonder why it wasn't Aliyun or MIUI or Xiaomi or ZTE or Huawei. | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | So if someone was able to figure out how to accept people's money, they'd have greater chance at getting a slice of the market than the people who can't figure out how to receive money | 01:41 |
| Hurrian | (wait, wasn't Huawei already caught botnetting their network equipment?) | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | I think that was Nokia Siemens :-) | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | The spy features in their base station hardware | 01:42 |
| Hurrian | ShadowJK, in US deployments, what carrier hardware doesn't require "lawful intercept" functionality? | 01:43 |
| Theorbo | Hurrian - I'm a security consultant - if things are done properly at the hardware level there is VERY little chance of being able to catch it. | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | things we be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything | 01:43 |
| Theorbo | I'm not trying to go nuts on a tinfoil hat tangent | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/we/will/ | 01:44 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: things will be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything | 01:44 |
| Theorbo | but if SailFish is what the chinese government has been waiting for and if deals are being done behind closed doors, then the likelihood of an untrustworthy platform are quite high. | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tivoization allows them to force their users on any skynet crap they like | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you all know OMAP comes with tivo per default, as do most other SOCs nowadays | 01:45 |
| Theorbo | In the end, most things are being done at the network level. I'm just mentioning this because most people don't seem to have any concern. | 01:45 |
| Theorbo | I wish more had. | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Theorbo: you'll easily spot the closed blobs that do nasty things | 01:45 |
| Theorbo | In software - yes | 01:46 |
| Hurrian | Theorbo, iOS' massive popularity is a testament to user blindness. | 01:46 |
| Theorbo | I'm talking about hardware. | 01:46 |
| Hurrian | Oh, and hiding it in hardware works until one of the following happens: | 01:46 |
| Theorbo | at least, recently i was referring to hardware | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | They just issue orders. Like after someone took a taxi in Beijing, hid anti-party opinions inside ping pong balls, rolled down taxi window while driving through town and throwing the ping pong balls with the hidden messages at people, all taxi cabs were mandated to convert their taxis so that windows can not be rolled down, and taxi drivers may not transport passengers with more than 1 ping pong ball. | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm EE, I tell you hw is a terribly difficult field to insert something that nobody notices and still offers some function beneficial to the dark side | 01:47 |
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| Hurrian | 1) Suspicious traffic is caught traveling across the network, can't be pinpointed to blobs in the SW, someone takes a Salae to the radio | 01:47 |
| Theorbo | My specialty is software - I won't argue hardware with you | 01:47 |
| Theorbo | But the EE in the security field I associate with share my opinion | 01:48 |
| Theorbo | Indeed, it is theirs that I have taken on | 01:48 |
| Hurrian | 2) The Jolla phone becomes popular, one of the decap companies that does decaps for PR tears down the Jollaphone, hilarity ensues. | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | homestly, why should anybody do such nonsense like hiding functions in hw. All they need is tivoized bootloader and with that they force every BS they like onto their customers | 01:50 |
| ShadowJK | This is silly anyway, china makes everything anyways, whether it be iphones or ranombrand android :P | 01:50 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, because tivoization of Linux hardware is a surefire way to get your shit rooted? | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | like HARM? | 01:52 |
| Hurrian | How significant /was/ the tivoization on it? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably in china you are about 30cm shorter when they catch you witha rooted device. and odds are they catch everybody who roots it | 01:53 |
| Hurrian | If they disallowed openmode kernel on N9/50, that would be one hell of an uproar.; | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly why should the HIDE any such rogue shit? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since you can't hide any active useful function in a mobile anyway, it gets detected from behaviour of device by virtually everybody and his dog | 01:55 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, advertising you have a rootkit preinstalled isn't good for sales | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you think China does give a shit about it? | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | is adveritising internet censorship and great chinese firewall good for internet sales? | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Chinese Gvmt simply does it | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they don't ask if anybody likes it, so they wouldn't even think about hiding | 01:57 |
| Hurrian | Might work over there, and honestly their network is rootkitted at every single level so even if you used Gentoo on an OpenCores IP block your traffic would still be sniffed | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're trying to hide stuff when you expect the one you're hiding the stuff from doesn't expect it to be there already | 01:59 |
| Hurrian | But outside of China, everyone would just not touch it if it's revealed that it may have China rootkits inside. | 02:00 |
| nox- | what about all the huawai kit? | 02:00 |
| wirr | DocScrutinizer05: we've talked before regarding sd card issues. i've done dd read & write tests as we discussed, once through the n900s card slot / mass storage and using a card reader on a linux box. | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my point still holds: there won't be any hidden functions in hw, and in sw it's very likely that they're not hidden but pretty obvious | 02:03 |
| wirr | now the strange thing is - using card reader no errors at all | 02:04 |
| wirr | on the phone errrors a plenty starting at transfers of about 20megs. | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly different VCC | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | supply voltage | 02:04 |
| wirr | what do you think? just bad luck? some card defect which only shows on n900? | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or different clock | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 02:05 |
| wirr | hmm.. how could i verify supply voltage? | 02:05 |
| wirr | or clock speed? | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | forget it, get another card | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | What kind of card? | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sandisk | 02:05 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: class 10 sandisk ultra 32gig | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 32G 10 | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | I ordered two different sandisks today :-) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even sandisk verifies their cards that thoroughly | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or it got damaged during transport | 02:06 |
| ShadowJK | they have atleast 3 x 4 different "Class 10" ones now :-( | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ESD | 02:06 |
| ShadowJK | wirr; what kernel? | 02:06 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: power51 | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PK51 | 02:07 |
| wirr | and cssu-thumb as well | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OOOH | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 02:07 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if pk includes the "class 10 fix" patch | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT would be interesting | 02:07 |
| wirr | pk should have it since r48 | 02:07 |
| ShadowJK | ok | 02:07 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: what kernel do you use? | 02:08 |
| * ShadowJK switched to pk on main device 2 days ago | 02:08 | |
| wirr | Doc, what do you mean? | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: could you - just for a short test - (install and) boot a stock kernel on a non-thumb system and do same tests again? | 02:09 |
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| wirr | hmmm... non-thumb system :-) | 02:09 |
| wirr | yeah, can flash it quickly | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could probably use rescueOS for that | 02:09 |
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| wirr | wait... i can boot backupmenu using stock kernel | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or flash, and after that restore from BM | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that :-) | 02:10 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd think pk would work more reliably, the original stock mmc/sd stuff that got patched was some bullshit "make it go faster" crap | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just to make sure we got no glitch in KP or thumb | 02:11 |
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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: the "class 10" patch came from upstream, as a result of ADATA not following some specs IIRC | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 02:12 |
| freemangordon | Not that Nokia screwed it | 02:12 |
| freemangordon | Nokia/TI | 02:12 |
| wirr | freemangordon: upstream meaning nokia or mainline linux kernel? | 02:13 |
| freemangordon | BTW even with "class 10" patch, I have i/o errors with ADATA card. When it is overheaten :D. | 02:14 |
| freemangordon | wirr: mainline | 02:14 |
| freemangordon | wirr: or it might be from Meego kernel, I cant recall right now | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | freemangordon; just the description of the stock code sounds wrong, some dynamic timeout thing? | 02:15 |
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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: IIRC that's how it is supposed to be. According to the specs | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | Spec sounds kinda buggy then :-) | 02:16 |
| freemangordon | timeout value depends on some parameter coming from the card | 02:16 |
| * wirr is loosing a tear or two over flashing his n900 using stock kernel | 02:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope you did a BM backup first | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | btw, my adata card is working remarkably well in my N800 :D | 02:17 |
| wirr | yeah - manually rebuilding my dm-crypt setup would take me 4 hours at least... | 02:17 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: the new one? | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 02:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: you could've booted rescueOS | 02:19 |
| freemangordon | it was 32G UHS-1? I was wondering if I should bye similar Samsung one I saw in a shop | 02:19 |
| xes | ..in my N900 a Lexar 32GB class 10 works flawlessly since 6 months.. | 02:19 |
| freemangordon | *buy | 02:19 |
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| freemangordon | the question is - is it faster than class 2SanDisk on random io | 02:19 |
| wirr | the sandisk ultra is uhs-1 i think | 02:20 |
| freemangordon | it is, so what? | 02:20 |
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| freemangordon | I have the impression all this class 100, UHS 200 etc is only marketing bullshit | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 02:22 |
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| freemangordon | unfortunately | 02:22 |
| ShadowJK | My adata actually does substantially more IOPS than others | 02:23 |
| xes | ...and sdxc? | 02:23 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: compared to what others? | 02:23 |
| xes | latest class 10 cards | 02:24 |
| ShadowJK | Uh, sandisk c2, c4 ultra and c4 standard | 02:24 |
| freemangordon | xes: afaik sdxc is to the old std something similar to what is USB3 compared to USB2 | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | (all my transcend/kingston c2-c10 being slower than the sandisk c2 and c4 ultra | 02:25 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 02:25 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet" | 02:25 | |
| xes | .. | 02:25 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 02:25 | |
| freemangordon | anyway, i'll wait for sandisk mobile ultra 64/128G (or similar) to hit the market here | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | I ordered a 16g mobile ultra | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | uh | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | and a 16g mobile extreme | 02:27 |
| freemangordon | I'll wait for the benchmarks :) | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | the mobile ultra was "for android" and had marketing claims about improved app "startup and upgrade" and multitasking performance | 02:28 |
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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: seems (according to some reviews) sandisk did their best to provide some acceptable level of random io performance | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | With stock swap algo, which Maemo4 still has, I get about 20-60 iops on the adata in "real life" use, with swap in use being 500M right now lol | 02:30 |
| freemangordon | lol | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | Response time is 0-20 s right now | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | (UI input) | 02:31 |
| freemangordon | nice :D | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | with other cards I've had, it'd rebooted at 300M, 2-4 iops and 60-7200s UI latency ;) | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | talking about latency... I did a visual comparison of startup times of phone-ui, contacts and conversations betweeen n900 and S3 | 02:34 |
| freemangordon | guess who is faster ;) | 02:34 |
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| ShadowJK | the good old hand-cranked wood+bakelite phone? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL at 7200s latency | 02:35 |
| freemangordon | n900 was playing music via FMTX by the same time | 02:35 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: exactly :D | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | I have no idea really. Based on my quadcore tegra3 tablet, I'd guess it was pretty evenly matched? | 02:37 |
| freemangordon | well, the S3 had only about 10 messages stored, with ~25 contacts. | 02:38 |
| freemangordon | TBH that pisses me off, how is that possible to have such a HW and to behave so (relatively to that HW) badly | 02:39 |
| ShadowJK | i know what you mean | 02:40 |
| freemangordon | I bet S3 has more horsepower than my old 2001 P4 2.2GHz laptop | 02:41 |
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| freemangordon | (which I am still usong as I refuse to swithch to 16/10 screen ;) ) | 02:42 |
| freemangordon | *using | 02:42 |
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| wirr | so... I've been running dd tests for 15 min now on stock (pr1.3) without any updates. so far no issues but i'll report back tomorrow when i've did read and write for the full 32gig. | 02:47 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, Samsung makes animations longer than they need to though | 02:48 |
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| Hurrian | the comparison should be Maemo 5 with animations set to 0, and the stock Samsung ROM with the animations set to 0 | 02:50 |
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| AndrewX192 | Is there a build of git-annex for N900? | 03:23 |
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| merlin1991 | AndrewX192: even the builds of git itself are rather non-existing | 03:33 |
| AndrewX192 | merlin1991: hmm, interesting | 03:36 |
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| Sc0rpius | http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ | 03:40 |
| Sc0rpius | that's how all phones can be saved | 03:40 |
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| merlin1991 | nah I bet it will have stupid (c) canonical "design" decisions that make it not enjoyable for me | 03:41 |
| robbiethe1st | As far as I'm concerned, I don't care... So long as I can get root etc, and load my own UI instead. | 03:42 |
| * robbiethe1st roots for another hildon-UI phone. | 03:43 | |
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| Hurrian | robbiethe1st: let's hope for a GNU/Linux phone with real glibc, bionic is garbage. | 03:57 |
| robbiethe1st | Yup | 03:57 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, as far as I'm concerned, glibc, Busybox(at least) is a minimum | 03:57 |
| merlin1991 | ~messybox | 04:12 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 04:12 |
| merlin1991 | just sayin ;) | 04:12 |
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| robbiethe1st | As far as I'm concerned, though, it's good enough. Plus, it means I can probably load in my own full bash/etc if I need it | 04:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, hi merlin1991 | 04:32 |
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| merlin1991 | hi there :) | 04:33 |
| * merlin1991 spammed tmo and maemo-dev | 04:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 04:33 |
| merlin1991 | let's see if we get fresh meat for our beloved cssu | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaaah :-D | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, we also need quite a number of maintainers for 'central services' | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the central services stabilization unit | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D | 04:36 |
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| RST38h | All the way back in the 90s, Qualcomm approached Apple to suggest that it might want to put a radio in its Newton PDA. It could have led to the first ever iPhone two decades early but instead, Apple told Qualcomm to stick its radio chip somewhere else. | 13:24 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 13:24 | |
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| Apic | Hi. | 13:27 |
| Apic | Is there an Android VM for N900? | 13:27 |
| Apic | I want to play Ingress | 13:27 |
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| tadzik | not a VM, but you can try NITDroid | 13:28 |
| Apic | I'll look at it, thanks! | 13:28 |
| Apic | Is it in extras-devel or do I need to browse? | 13:28 |
| tadzik | not sure. I think there is an installer in one of the repos | 13:30 |
| Apic | Ok | 13:30 |
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| grummund | Hi all, can anyone offer some advice what to look out for when buying a used N900 ? | 14:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | broken USB, or not connecting to cellular network seem to be main issues | 14:14 |
| kerio | +1 | 14:15 |
| kerio | also check that the sensors for the camera lens, the backcover and the keyboard slider work correctly | 14:15 |
| grummund | do i need to worry about hardware revision or is there only one? | 14:15 |
| kerio | there's plenty, but they're all good | 14:15 |
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| grummund | ok | 14:16 |
| kerio | at least, none is specifically bad | 14:16 |
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| sourav | for hardware side look for usb,slide to unlock key,camera for scratches and also the battery | 14:20 |
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| grummund | it'll be from ebay but i can ask the seller. | 14:22 |
| grummund | initially i need it primarilly for VoIP/SIP over wifi. but with the idea of ultimately running debian on a pocket device. | 14:24 |
| grummund | afaict, VoIP/SIP should work right out of the box. | 14:24 |
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| teotwaki | grummund: you're going to be disappointed | 15:08 |
| teotwaki | grummund: VoIP/SIP is notoriously bad on the N900. A lot of packet loss, poor codec implementation, with essentially no support in hardware. | 15:09 |
| teotwaki | grummund: even skype is dodgy at best---if it even works at all ever since microsoft bought skype. | 15:09 |
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| grummund | teotwaki: that's sad. i thought it was going to be my dream phone | 15:17 |
| Luke-Jr | grummund: N900 isn't a phone. If you expect it to be one, you will be disappointed. | 15:19 |
| grummund | well yes i should say pocket computer with softphone | 15:20 |
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| Hurrian | grummund, you could always use a non-native SIP implementation | 15:21 |
| grummund | it's just for WLAN use, i probably won't put a SIM in it | 15:24 |
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| grummund | anyway thanks all for the advice. i might give it a go and if it fails on SIP usability then i still have a cool device to play and hack on ;) | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | works for me for so | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | sip | 15:35 |
| kerio | teotwaki: afaik skype still works | 15:36 |
| kerio | and SIP is only notoriously bad if you try to use it with a wifi router that has poor powersaving | 15:36 |
| kerio | or if you try to use it over wifi while you're using a bluetooth headset | 15:37 |
| kerio | (because wifi+bluetooth at the same time is bad) | 15:37 |
| joga | uhm...yeah skype has worked ok for me too, but I'd just like to dismiss the comment that "N900 isn't a phone", since I use it as a phone just fine :p | 15:38 |
| joga | (although probably 99% of my use is not related to calling or receiving calls, but anyway) | 15:38 |
| Skry | I've been quite happy with N900 as a phone too | 15:41 |
| * grummund read of someone running asterisk on the N900 itself | 15:43 | |
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| jonwil | I have been using the N900 as my primary phone since I bought it | 15:55 |
| jonwil | and for that purpose (making phonecalls) it does great :) | 15:55 |
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| Apic | :-) | 16:02 |
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| int_ua | apt-get install libqtm-12-* doesn't work. Anyone knows why? | 16:17 |
| int_ua | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1310197&postcount=122 | 16:18 |
| Apic | Is there Voice Guided Navigation yet for N900? | 16:25 |
| teotwaki | grummund: and running asterisk on the N900 is about as useful as growing dead kittens in the basement. | 16:25 |
| teotwaki | grummund: it's technologically cool, but it really doesn't provide anything in the end. | 16:25 |
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| grummund | teotwaki: i don't know much about asterisk i just read that | 16:28 |
| grummund | anyway i bought the N900 so no going back now :-) | 16:28 |
| kerio | JOIN USSSSSSSS | 16:29 |
| int_ua | teotwaki, grummund: yeah, that's the question I wanted to ask too. What's the point of Asterisk on N900? | 16:31 |
| kontio | sip gateway? | 16:32 |
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| Skry | grummund: welcome aboard, you'll be spending some time here from now on :) | 17:07 |
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| grummund | indeed :) | 17:14 |
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| teotwaki | btw, off topic, but just for pure awesomeness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsoRSI7ei4E | 17:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | meat | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | neat | 17:43 |
| Apic | Pork | 17:43 |
| Apic | Dork | 17:43 |
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| sourav | anyone help me in setting up ubuntu lucid desktop VM in virtualbox | 17:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | asterisk on N900 is as silly as a load balancer on your DSL-modemrouter | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no point in it whatsoever | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | welcome grummund in this small but nice club :-) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I'm using built-in SIP via WRT54 AP all the time, sipgate account. Usually after the initial 2..3s to establish connection it works absolutely fine | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I adoped the general method of answering like <pick up>"CHRSHDHSCRCK *cough* *cough* errrr YES?" which gives far end indication they should repeat their initial one or 2 seconds, or at least anticipate I didn't hear them | 18:18 |
| RST38h | Invariably works like shit here. Skype too. | 18:19 |
| RST38h | Skype is a bit better though, have ot give it a credit | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I have used a'loadbalancer on my DSL | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | well | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ISDN | 18:19 |
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| thedead1440 | skype on audio calls only is pretty nice; on video though audio transmitted is sometimes slow and the video res is pretty horrible... | 18:20 |
| thedead1440 | but then at least it has skype video calls; something taken out of the N9 :( | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SIP much depends on far end client. All my SIP calls are via sipgate gateway to landline/GSM, and it seems sipgate has pretty good b2bua on their gateways | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for a plain SIP call to peer with arbitrary crappy SIP client mileage may vary massively | 18:22 |
| SpeedEvil | my only use for sip is to my isps sip server | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | to a real phone number | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | same here, and it seems that's what usually works flawlessly, more or less | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except sipgate.de is not my ISP | 18:30 |
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| wirr | DocScrutinizer05: I've run a few tests with stock (pr1.3) kernel as discussed and couldn't reproduce the sd-card issues experienced on pk51/thumb. do we have a driver issue after all? | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems likely | 18:50 |
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| kerio | wirr: :( | 18:51 |
| kerio | i mean, it's pretty good for you | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'd need to bisect it now, to find what's causing the problem in pk51/thumb combo | 18:52 |
| wirr | kerio: not especially... i'm very interested in having high quality community-driven maemo systems. i really don't care about stock. | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it turns out some valid bugfix in kp51 made a sleeping bug in your card raise its head, we might need a kernel module load option or a sysfs switch to select between two conflicting mutally exclusive paradigms regarding operation of that driver | 18:53 |
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| wirr | so - what can i contribute? i propose running the same tests on kp51 first on cssu-testing then on cssu-thumb | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk, bbl. sorry | 18:55 |
| wirr | okay... | 18:55 |
| kerio | wirr: also having the full logs would be good | 18:55 |
| wirr | kerio: which ones? dmesg output? | 18:55 |
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| kerio | yep, and syslog too | 18:56 |
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| wirr | hmm... so I should set up a syslog daemon and log to a remote system? which one do you propose? | 18:57 |
| kerio | why a remote system? | 18:57 |
| kerio | just install sysklogd | 18:57 |
| wirr | out of habbit... i usually don't write logs locally on embedded systems... | 18:58 |
| kerio | you don't necessarily have to keep the daemon running all the time | 18:58 |
| wirr | ok | 18:58 |
| wirr | btw, i forgot to mention: the transmission errors occur as well if I try to start the newest nemo kernel | 18:59 |
| kerio | especially because the syslogd in the repos doesn't rotate the logs except when it starts | 18:59 |
| kerio | so eventually it fills up the rootfs, as DocScrutinizer can tell you | 18:59 |
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| wirr | sound like hell alot of uptime :-) | 19:01 |
| grummund | DocScrutinizer05: i was also going to go with sipgate (in UK). | 19:01 |
| kerio | wirr: it was a sad day for IroN900, yes :( | 19:01 |
| kerio | lost ~200 days of uptime iirc | 19:01 |
| wirr | ouch | 19:02 |
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| wirr | kerio: so the test with stock userland and kp51 already fails... | 19:16 |
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| kerio | well, that's good | 19:16 |
| kerio | makes things easier :) | 19:16 |
| kerio | wirr: try KP52 though | 19:16 |
| kerio | wirr: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1305042&postcount=288 | 19:17 |
| kerio | it'll probably not change anything, but it's still better to stay on the latest version | 19:17 |
| wirr | http://pastebin.com/bW6bvGt7 | 19:17 |
| kerio | wirr: what's in syslog regarding that? | 19:18 |
| wirr | just a sec | 19:23 |
| wirr | http://pastebin.com/FMVcntyd | 19:28 |
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| wirr | kerio: i've just noticed: while getting an i/o error on writing to mmcblk1, the logs show errors for mmcblk0 | 19:29 |
| kerio | ugh, that might be because the uSD is actually mmcblk0 | 19:30 |
| kerio | they are swapped by udev | 19:30 |
| wirr | sorry, don't understand that... | 19:30 |
| kerio | at boot time, the uSD is mmcblk0 and the emmc is mmcblk1 | 19:31 |
| kerio | if you have a uSD inserted | 19:31 |
| wirr | ah... so the kernel logging still sees it this way, while userspace addresses it the other way round? | 19:31 |
| kerio | i don't know, maybe | 19:32 |
| kerio | are you having trouble accessing your home or MyDocs? | 19:32 |
| wirr | nope | 19:32 |
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| wirr | kerio: what about alignment? has data to be aligned on 4k blocks? | 19:34 |
| kerio | meh | 19:34 |
| kerio | maybe something like aligning to 4M would help? | 19:34 |
| kerio | it would be a performance thing, though | 19:34 |
| kerio | it can't cause errors, microsds are supposed to be ideal block devices | 19:35 |
| wirr | hmm... it just seems to me the error occurs much more often when testing using this cmd: 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1' as when using 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=4096' | 19:36 |
| kerio | wirr: hm | 19:36 |
| kerio | echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests | 19:37 |
| kerio | echo 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/slice_idle | 19:37 |
| kerio | as root | 19:37 |
| kerio | and then try again with the standard block size | 19:37 |
| wirr | didn't you say before, the addresses mmcblk0/1 are swapped? | 19:39 |
| kerio | good point, i don't know which would be the right one | 19:40 |
| kerio | do it to mmcblk0 too | 19:40 |
| wirr | ok | 19:40 |
| kerio | (it doesn't hurt, anyway - it helps, in fact) | 19:40 |
| wirr | test is running... | 19:41 |
| wirr | writing the full 32gig will obviously take a while - so far no errors | 19:43 |
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| kerio | wirr: no error yet? | 19:52 |
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| wirr | kerio: still writing - no error yet | 20:27 |
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| MSameer | is extras-cauldron-builds down or is it just me missing something? | 20:35 |
| MSameer | last emails in the archive are from december last year | 20:35 |
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| f3bruary | best media player for n900 | 20:42 |
| f3bruary | GO ! | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hooray, internet connection once more fecked on 2G, while 3G works | 20:47 |
| f3bruary | never heard of that mediaplayer app | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and no, I'm sure it's not the carrier's fault | 20:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I honestly should do some forensiocs this time, since this is a FSCKNG ANNOYING bug | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | seems kinda reproducable by going to no-signal area for half an hour while connected via 2.5G | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so it's somewhat in line with similar behavior on WLAN | 20:52 |
| kerio | MSameer: december last year is like three days ago dude | 20:55 |
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| kerio | f3bruary: openmediaplayer, probably | 20:55 |
| kerio | it's basically a drop-in replacement for the stock media player | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | as if icd2 or whatever refuses to start a new association sequence while aborted 'dangling' timedout re-association for same connection still lingering on somewhere in stack | 20:56 |
| f3bruary | cool, thanks | 20:56 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: disconnect, kill sscd, kill icd2, start everything up again? | 20:56 |
| MSameer | kerio: true but I uploaded a package and the archive page didn't get updated so I was wondering | 20:56 |
| MSameer | kerio: I was expecting an email with the result of the build to be added to the page | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: wilco when @home | 20:57 |
| MSameer | so it might be an issue with the builder | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | last I heard was autobuilder has issues with web frontend | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iirc | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 21:02 |
| infobot | ~pong | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bwahahaha 2G | 21:02 |
| MSameer | DocScrutinizer51: so how do i check the results ? :) | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry nfc | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bbl | 21:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | f3bruary: check trackerd config | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | f3bruary: I heard in CSSU it even works like supposed to, to exclude dirs from trackerd indexing | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stock trackerd has a bug in this function to exclude dirs from indexing | 21:17 |
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| f3bruary | thanks | 21:34 |
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| kerio | wirr: did the bug *always* occur when doing that, before? | 21:46 |
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| lnxmen | What is the newest firmware for maemo? | 21:49 |
| kerio | lnxmen: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo5 | 21:49 |
| kerio | latest stable | 21:50 |
| wirr | kerio: under power51/cssu-thumb: yes; under pk51/stock I just ran the tests i've told you about... | 21:50 |
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| kerio | and the bug didn't occur? | 21:56 |
| kerio | try restoring your cssu-thumb backup | 21:57 |
| kerio | and do it on that, to be sure | 21:57 |
| kerio | it shouldn't change anything | 21:57 |
| kerio | my guess is that the I/O scheduler on the n900 is so borked that eventually even the kernel stops giving a shit | 21:57 |
| wirr | yes, i'll do that as soon as the full 32gig sequential write test on kp51/stock is finished... | 21:57 |
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| wirr | ...running since 138 min... | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo5 is not exactly a firmware, if anything it's a SSU upgrade revision to the latest "firmware" | 21:59 |
| kerio | what's a "firmware" on the n900? | 21:59 |
| kerio | seriously | 21:59 |
| kerio | there's nothing firm about the ubifs rootfs | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much an undefined term | 21:59 |
| wirr | combo of kernel/rootfs and emmc filesystem? | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if anything, then I'd call fiasco images "firmware" | 22:00 |
| kerio | hell, on the first boot it copies and deletes a huge chunk of data | 22:00 |
| kerio | wirr: a firmware can't really be the maemo rootfs | 22:00 |
| kerio | it's not firm! | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | technically you're correct | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in common sense however people refer to images as firmware | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "disk" images | 22:01 |
| kerio | clearly that means that we should start working on a fiasco image for CSSU stable | 22:01 |
| lnxmen | kerio: Can I find it on Nokia site? | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I always supported that idea | 22:02 |
| kerio | lnxmen: no, you have to flash PR1.3 and then do an upgrade | 22:02 |
| lnxmen | okay | 22:02 |
| lnxmen | thankyou | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: see? ^^^ :-) | 22:02 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: >:c | 22:02 |
| wirr | lnxmen: latest global image on nokia is X-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 22:02 |
| wirr | s/X/RX/ | 22:03 |
| infobot | wirr meant: lnxmen: latest global image on nokia is RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 22:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how do we do it, though? it's not trivial by any means | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: are you sure? | 22:03 |
| wirr | pretty... | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe it's correct | 22:03 |
| kerio | ~phone-control | 22:03 |
| kerio | ~phonecontrol | 22:03 |
| infobot | i heard phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control | 22:03 |
| lnxmen | I'm downloading latest global | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2011.38 is already SSU-PR1.3.1 | 22:03 |
| lnxmen | but speed is really slow | 22:04 |
| lnxmen | ~35 kb/s | 22:04 |
| wirr | Doc, yep | 22:04 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he said 36 | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:05 |
| kerio | oh you mean that it's too low | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know to read | 22:05 |
| kerio | well, nokia is nokia | 22:05 |
| kerio | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 | 22:05 |
| kerio | lnxmen: currently downloading at 1.3MB/s | 22:05 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is "OS 2009" the PR 1.0? | 22:06 |
| wirr | OS 2009 is fremantle | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure | 22:06 |
| kerio | oh, there's two of those | 22:06 |
| kerio | one is marked as "second" | 22:06 |
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| wirr | kerio: i'm starting to doubt that this write test will ever finish - the time it took so far amounts to a write speed of approx 3.5MB/s | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's all pretty precisely explained on | 22:08 |
| wirr | but on the positive side: no errors so far ;-) | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 22:08 |
| infobot | i guess cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 22:08 |
| kerio | wirr: 3.5MB/s is about right, yes | 22:08 |
| kerio | but that's only because i told you the magic invocation rituals to get a decent I/O | 22:09 |
| * wirr bows before kerio | 22:09 | |
| wirr | so this is just what the n900's card reader/bus can deliver? | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell lnxmen about cssu | 22:09 |
| kerio | Pali: wirr has been having I/O problems on a uSD that have been "solved", maybe, with a couple of tweaks on the I/O scheduler - could you think about setting those as default? | 22:10 |
| kerio | ask ShadowJK for the details, they're his | 22:10 |
| Pali | kerio, I do know what linux sheduler doing and changing default configuration because XYZ wrote "it is cool" is not very good... | 22:11 |
| Pali | I do not know sideeffects... | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I agree we should do something for WD kicking, but very carefully ;) | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do sth about WD kicking?? WTF?! | 22:12 |
| kerio | it's not WD kicking, he was getting IO errors | 22:12 |
| wirr | Pali, kerio: Anyway I'll try the tweaks for a week or two on pk51/cssu-thumb | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if kernel gets so busy so it can't even kick WD, then we have other problems to solve than change the WD timeout | 22:13 |
| kerio | the WD wasn't even considered here! | 22:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: could swappolube set the parameters accordingly? | 22:14 |
| kerio | yes | 22:15 |
| kerio | well, i'm not sure about slice_idle | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then what'S the problem? | 22:15 |
| kerio | ...wirr was getting *errors* | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sure | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a singulary report though, so far | 22:16 |
| kerio | IO-related lockups and general slugginess is far from being unheard of | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I am getting errors from my ADATA when it is overheated ;) | 22:16 |
| kerio | get a real uSD | 22:16 |
| kerio | like, a sandisk one | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | kerio: are you playing smart? | 22:17 |
| kerio | maybe a little :3 | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if those new parameters would evidently improve perfomance for everybody, get thorough tests for side effects, and we also see more of those reports about errors, we might consider making them a kernel or CSSU default | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | the point is that faulty card could lead to io errors | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: :nod: | 22:17 |
| kerio | card works fine on a card reader, fails on two separate N900s, seems to work with those tweaks | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | but we should find a way to test them | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | kerio: i'll label that card faulty then | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | or at least "incompatible" | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we're not going to taint kernel to make defect hardware work, as long as that defect hardware is not shipped by the dozens of millions to the general public | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even then... | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically we assume somebody used his head to find optimum values for IO parameters, for a set of most common usecases | 22:21 |
| kerio | that's a *reeeeeeeeeally* bold assumption | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if we find that's actually not the case, we have to do proper evaluation and verification of our new set of parameters | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that is not the case, n900 is using the default kernel scheduler values for HDD | 22:22 |
| kerio | that's why i asked Pali if he'd /consider/ that | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fixing a fringe case for one defect uSD is not a good reason to force new IO parameters on everybody | 22:22 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: though I strongly agree we should be very careful with those | 22:22 |
| Pali | can somebody check if ELF binary is thub compiled? | 22:23 |
| Pali | *thumb | 22:23 |
| freemangordon | Pali: readelf? | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: there's not any *decent* test | 22:23 |
| freemangordon | i.e. readelf -a $YOUR_COOL_BIN | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I posted a shell oneliner in #maemo-ssu quite a long time ago | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: there is, readelf | 22:24 |
| Pali | I need to know if this diablo nokia closed lib is thumb or not: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libicd-network-ipv6/ | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and what will that tell you? | 22:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: well, it doesn't really help with self-generated code | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | ARM_THUMB_ISA | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it didn't for modest when it been fekked | 22:25 |
| Pali | $ readelf -a /usr/lib/icd2/libicd_network_ipv6.so | grep thumb | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr | 22:25 |
| Pali | no output | 22:25 |
| Pali | grep -i --> also no output | 22:26 |
| kerio | Pali: heh, i was about to say that | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | Pali: grep THUMB | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | it is in uppercase | 22:26 |
| Pali | -i --> case insensitive | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | however, i'll check it for you | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr | 22:26 |
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| freemangordon | libicd-network-ipv6_0.15-0.1_armel.deb | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | <Pali> $ readelf -a /usr/lib/icd2/libicd_network_ipv6.so | grep thumb | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | no -i | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 21:26:08] <Pali> grep -i --> also no output | 22:27 |
| Pali | [21:26:08] <Pali> grep -i --> also no output | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr | 22:27 |
| kerio | hm, the scrutinizer is stuck again | 22:27 |
| * kerio kicks DocScrutinizer05 | 22:28 | |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do you know if diablo was thumb compiled? | 22:28 |
| kerio | that should've fixed it | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought it got stuck on the way from your rhetina to your brain (you got a brain, do you?) | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | Pali: wait, it is not readelf | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | sorry, my bad | 22:28 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's no need to be rude :< | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | just kidding | 22:29 |
| Pali | hm, autobuilder not working... | 22:30 |
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| Pali | I uploaded wide-dhcpv6 20080615-11.1maemo1 via dput and nothing | 22:30 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: well, it is readelf, but firle has no attributes | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | *the fiel | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | file | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | Pali: what was this build with? | 22:31 |
| Pali | nokia binary | 22:32 |
| Pali | nobody know | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | readelf -A libicd_network_ipv6.so | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | Attribute Section: aeabi | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | File Attributes | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | and then nothing | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | pali / wirr: I remember wirr's read errors from yesterday.. Anyone care to summarize what you've done and current statsus? :) | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | (trying to fish a summary before I scroll bavk and start replying yo things 24h ago) | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 21:31:20] <DocScrutinizer05> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-11-29.log.html#t2011-11-29T00:04:00 | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 21:33:35] <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ that's not yet the ultimate check, which more was with a regex checking for [13579bdf] as last digit of an addr | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | Pali: launching IDA | 22:34 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: flashed stock pr1.3; seq read/write tests successful | 22:34 |
| wirr | eg no errors | 22:35 |
| freemangordon | Pali: do we know the target CPU at least? | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I don't know if diablo been thombified, but I honestly doubt it | 22:35 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: upgraded to pk51, I/O errors after a few hundred megs of writing | 22:35 |
| Pali | freemangordon, something for N8x0 | 22:35 |
| Pali | I really have no idea | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf eg | 22:36 |
| infobot | EG: evil grin | 22:36 |
| Pali | I copied it and it worked on n900 with n900's version of icd2 | 22:36 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: then applied some IO scheduler tweaks from kerio, which apparently originally came from you | 22:36 |
| Pali | but somebody on TMO thread wrote that his icd2 crashed with illegal instruction | 22:36 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: queue size and slice_idle | 22:36 |
| wirr | since then 32 gig seq writing test still running | 22:36 |
| wirr | ~180 min, which amounts to somewhat < 3MB/s | 22:37 |
| wirr | but no I/O errors so far | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: that's pretty much a good indication that it actually been a thumb instruction | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: what been your original write thruput before it threw IO errors? | 22:39 |
| wirr | Doc: unfortunately didn't write it down, I remember sth >4MB/s | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | Pali: yes, it is thumb | 22:39 |
| Pali | freemangordon, so for that we need thumb kernel... | 22:40 |
| ShadowJK | wirr/kerio: 4M alignment seems common now. I've also seen 8M for a 64g sd | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so higher? | 22:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how freemangordon finally found out about thombiness of that binary | 22:41 | |
| freemangordon | IDA | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doing what exactly? | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | what? disassembling ;) | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then? | 22:42 |
| Pali | freemangordon, so what to do? Adding some thumb dependency to package? | 22:42 |
| Pali | or not? | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | Pali: for sure | 22:42 |
| Pali | what is good solution for pushing thumb compiled application into extras-devel? | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | kernel-feature-.... | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | Hm, if dd without bs fails, it's likely that the card does a full read-modify-write cycle for every 512 bytes, so 4M read/write each time or even worse, might slow it down so that it blows through timeouts? | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and after that looking at the disassembly - instructons size, address being odd, etc | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>...address being odd,...<< :-D | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thankyou :-) | 22:44 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: i'm not able to judge that | 22:45 |
| wirr | but maybe I can run additional tests? | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 21:27:39] <DocScrutinizer05> the only way been to disassemble binary and look for jump addr pointing to impair addr | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but actually I prefer to look at instructions size | 22:45 |
| Pali | freemangordon, can you check if "kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround" is good dependency? | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hmm, wait | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | well, usually I use "kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround[armel]" | 22:47 |
| Pali | I have Architecture: armel | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | but having in mind you don't have the real source package | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | yep | 22:47 |
| Pali | I adding dependency to metapackage ipv6-support | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | Pali: should work | 22:48 |
| Pali | ok | 22:48 |
| ShadowJK | I've seen this interesting thing on recent sandisk (and adata), where the card seems atleast for a moment able to keep track of lots of halfwritten blocks.. I wonder if certain IO patterns cause this prepared-work or deferred-work to collapse, forcing the card to do some massive gigabyte-worth of housekeeping tasks all of the sudden, resulting in timeouts | 22:49 |
| Pali | freemangordon, but problem is that autobuilder not building package... | 22:49 |
| ShadowJK | that it works on stock and not pk makes little sense to me though | 22:50 |
| Pali | about 30 minutes ago I uploaded package and still nothing... | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: that's been my very initial assumption | 22:50 |
| Pali | is there any log from autobuilder?ň | 22:50 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05 ^^^ | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | wirr; btw, get iostat (sysstat in tools repo, iirc), "iostat -x -k -d mmcblk0 mmcblk1 10", the bigger the avgrq-sz, the better 512k and up is especially good | 22:51 |
| M4rtinK | Pali: the extras cauldron mailing list ? | 22:51 |
| Pali | M4rtinK, can you give me link? | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: somebody else asked same thing ~2h ago. I still have no idea about autobuilder | 22:51 |
| Pali | I found this: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/ | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 19:56:50] <MSameer> kerio: true but I uploaded a package and the archive page didn't get updated so I was wondering | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 19:59:21] <MSameer> so it might be an issue with the builder | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-03 20:00:28] <DocScrutinizer51> last I heard was autobuilder has issues with web frontend | 22:53 |
| MSameer | so far nothing from autobuilder :( | 22:53 |
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| Pali | that archive is out of date: Ending: Sun Dec 16 19:26:07 EET 2012 | 22:53 |
| MSameer | true | 22:53 |
| Pali | but last package was builded: 2012-12-27 10:42 | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't that roundabout the date when maemo.org infra been set into r7o mode? | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (12-16) | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since 12-27 Nemein might actually be busy migrating autobuilder, I don't know | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly would appreciate they would update us more frequently about status of migration | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in more detail | 22:57 |
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| Pali | I want to update ipv6 support... | 22:59 |
| Pali | finally icd working with ipv6 only networks (radvd or dhcpv6) | 23:00 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: why don't ask jonwil to RE that lib :P | 23:12 |
| Pali | freemangordon, because it worked on my device :D | 23:12 |
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| Pali | today I reread tmo posts and found some sigill | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | haha | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | I see | 23:13 |
| Pali | freemangordon and now ipv6 support working fine | 23:13 |
| Pali | but you need kernel with ipv6 support | 23:13 |
| Pali | so kernel-power | 23:13 |
| Pali | and last kernel-power has also thumb patch | 23:13 |
| Pali | so I do not see any problems... | 23:13 |
| freemangordon | Pali: we need to restart the work on kernel in CSSU | 23:13 |
| Pali | freemangordon, I changed some patches in kp52 | 23:14 |
| Pali | and I want to release it | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: has setup mediawiki on his server, we can use that | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ok | 23:14 |
| Pali | after that I merge kernel-power to cssu git kernel repo | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | ok | 23:14 |
| Pali | and then we can start discussion about patches for new kernel in cssu | 23:14 |
| Pali | freemangordon, btw I can start ikiwiki if needed | 23:15 |
| Pali | (good wiki sw which store pages in git :D) | 23:15 |
| freemangordon | Pali: it does not matter for me, as long as we are making progress | 23:15 |
| Pali | so you can use it offline :-) | 23:15 |
| Pali | but first I need autobuilder! | 23:16 |
| freemangordon | Pali: windoze Xp here, lets stick to HTML :) | 23:16 |
| freemangordon | Pali: afaik dput should work | 23:16 |
| Pali | without it I cannot push kernel-power to extras-devel | 23:16 |
| Pali | freemangordon 1 hour ago I pushed wide-dhcpv6 package | 23:16 |
| Pali | nothing happened | 23:17 |
| Pali | I pushed version 2008 | 23:17 |
| Pali | but there is only old: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/w/wide-dhcpv6/ | 23:17 |
| Pali | also nothing here: http://maemo.org/packages/ | 23:18 |
| Pali | and nothhing here: http://maemo.org/packages/view/wide-dhcpv6-client/ | 23:19 |
| freemangordon | Pali: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php | 23:19 |
| Pali | aaa here is: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php :-) | 23:19 |
| freemangordon | see the top in the queue :P | 23:20 |
| Pali | wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo12013-01-03T19:51:57Z | 23:20 |
| Pali | but why is not buidling? | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | NFC | 23:20 |
| Pali | or is that list of waiting packages? | 23:20 |
| Pali | then something happened: 2013-01-01T00:03:29Z | 23:21 |
| Pali | new year? | 23:21 |
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| Pali | nokia turned off buidling machine? | 23:21 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05 ^^^ | 23:21 |
| wirr | ~wtf NFC | 23:22 |
| infobot | NFC: no fucking clue | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | The stock hsmmc data timeout code looks bizarre :/ | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | Pali: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=D | 23:26 |
| Pali | missing also :-( | 23:27 |
| Pali | wide-dhcpv6 version 2008 | 23:27 |
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| Pali | now going offline, bye | 23:27 |
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| M4rtinK | any rought timeline on the autobuilder btw ? :) | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: what particularly? (not that I knew of *any* timeline for autobuilder) | 23:38 |
| M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: provided they don't fix it themselves, I'd guess it is dependent on HIF getting access to the machine running it | 23:44 |
| M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: when would should that be, cca ? | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, can't parse your last 2 posts | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://garage.maemo.org has a r/o notice | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm more puzzled that autobuilder still doing *anything* | 23:47 |
| M4rtinK | I mean when the Hildon Foundation gets access to the machines running the Maemo infrastructure | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's unclear, and ATM HiFo dropped the whole migration on council's feet basically | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is in negotiations with Nokia about legalese stuff. Once those papers are signed, hiFo will become owner of the domains/URLs | 23:49 |
| M4rtinK | well, its at least online :) | 23:50 |
| M4rtinK | and TMO is working | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein is busy moving infra from current servers to some interim vservers (thus the r/o notice), and once Nemein installed the RX300 irons in colo hoster's racks and set up the OS on them, they move the vservers to those irons | 23:50 |
| M4rtinK | but IMHO the Wiki & autobuilder outage is harming the community quite a lot | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 23:50 |
| M4rtinK | I hope we end with at least some semi-interested people with root access to those machines | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | TMO will work until 2013-01-20 the least | 23:51 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: probably you want me to run iostat while writing to the sd card? | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK | so that bit rot & related issues can be handled in some timely manner | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | it was more of a FYI than a request for information :) | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's completely unclear when/if Nemein will make those vservers the ones the URLs are pointing at | 23:53 |
| wirr | :-) of course... | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also unclear when the current servers are expected to go offline | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK | its quite frustrating if something quite crucial stops working and there is no-on to contact :) | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK | oh, so its happening in parallel - good to know | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: the idea is to rsync/cp the current servers' content to the new machines, and eventually switch the URL DNS pointers | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, any info about the COBS (build.pub.meego.com) infrastructure ? | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously until that switch you need to freeze old machines or they will render new machines obsolete | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK | last I heard it should run at least until about March/February | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm not up-to-date regarding the meego stuff | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK | so autobuilder is probably also offline | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK | np :) | 23:56 |
| fasta | Do N900 applications also all steal all contact data like just about all Android applications do? | 23:56 |
| *** chenca has quit IRC | 23:57 | |
| M4rtinK | BTW, what about the Fremantle OBS that was put on ice ? :) | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (autobuilder) as mentioned above I'm puzzled that it's obviously not (completely) offline | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | resp r/o | 23:57 |
| M4rtinK | well, it kinda still worked recently | 23:57 |
| M4rtinK | just the Web UI was borked since November | 23:57 |
| Belzebub | ~snowboard | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and that's basically a flaw | 23:58 |
| Belzebub | ~n900snowboard | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK | but scping source packages worked for some | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK | (not for me - public key error :D ) | 23:58 |
| fasta | Does everyone have me on ignore? | 23:58 |
| fasta | It shouldn't be a hard question to answer for anyone who knows anything about the device. | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: no, and no | 23:59 |
| wirr | ShadowJK: http://pastebin.com/1KwG0DRw seems not so bad... | 23:59 |
| fasta | DocScrutinizer05: thank you | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 23:59 |
| wirr | but unfortunately now i got i/o errors again, this time even using the scheduling tweaks on kp51 | 23:59 |
| fasta | I don't understand why the mass buys spyware on a massive scale then. | 23:59 |
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