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| FIQ|n900 | lol | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
| FIQ|n900 | battery died, swapped it | 00:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | "great, clock reset" | 00:31 |
| kerio | :D | 00:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | then I realized it *is* 1st jan today | 00:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | :p | 00:31 |
| kerio | only for a little longer, though | 00:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah | 00:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | 29min for me | 00:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | *28 | 00:32 |
| kerio | CET represent! o/ | 00:32 |
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| merlin1991 | o/ | 00:53 |
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| kerio | it feels like the majority of people here are on UTC or UTC+1 | 01:08 |
| kerio | i wonder if it's just confirmation bias | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | confirmation bias? the endocrine form of self fulfilling prophecy? | 01:13 |
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| kerio | well, not quite | 01:14 |
| kerio | i live in UTC+1, and so i tend to notice discussions that happen when i'm awake a lot more | 01:15 |
| kerio | and those are, ofc, mostly betwen people living in timezones close to mine | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, so an externally introduced causal self fulfilling prophecy | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually same effect is caused by selective attention to the things that prove what you're assuming | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: in USA the N900 never been that popular, for very real reasons | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so your observation is probably correct, even while you're not watching during US timezone 'business' hours | 01:30 |
| kerio | hm, you're right, it's not confirmation bias | 01:31 |
| kerio | i'm not actively looking for evidence that supports my thesis | 01:31 |
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| sourav | hi could someone direct me to how to get start with (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php) to compile for fremantle | 05:32 |
| sourav | do i need a linux pc | 05:35 |
| sourav | or windows | 05:35 |
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| jonwil | You can either use a Linux PC or you can use a Windows PC with a Linux VM | 06:01 |
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| sourav | how to setup in linux pc ? | 06:14 |
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| merlin1991 | not sure if trolling: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85641 | 07:31 |
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| sourav | haha | 07:35 |
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| sourav | hi can anyone tell me which script or service locks screen | 10:59 |
| kerio | sourav: osso-systemui-tklock | 11:00 |
| kerio | it's a systemui plugin | 11:00 |
| joga | sourav http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Lock_screen_and_keys_.28slider_lockswitch.29 | 11:01 |
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| sourav | thanks | 11:03 |
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| sourav | help me installing VM on ubuntu-tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z | 11:17 |
| sourav | I mean I want to install it how to do so | 11:17 |
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| joga | sourav seems like you need either vmware player, virtualbox or qemu to use it, personally I usually pick the PUEL version of Virtualbox for such things | 11:20 |
| joga | I haven't tried that image myself | 11:20 |
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| markmx | hola evr1 | 11:48 |
| markmx | who tried to install nitroid? | 11:48 |
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| sourav | what problem do you have ? | 11:53 |
| markmx | I live in russia... it's a big problem... | 11:58 |
| markmx | :) wanna ttry to install android on my old N900 | 11:59 |
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| jpinx | is the Pierogi project still supported ? | 12:24 |
| jpinx | remote IR control for TV's etc... | 12:25 |
| thedead1440 | jpinx: I have seen it being supported... | 12:26 |
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| jpinx | their website is undated and the threads in the forums seem to be stagnant | 12:27 |
| kerio | well, it works fine | 12:33 |
| kerio | i think the author is just looking for some more keysets | 12:33 |
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| EchoDev | Do you guys think it is still possible to find a new original Nokia N900 screen? | 13:23 |
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| EchoDev | The top layer of my screen has a deep scratch on it and I would like to replace it | 13:23 |
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| kerio | EchoDev: try ebay | 13:24 |
| Aoyagi_joytop | I think I saw one the other day, but I couldn't tell you where even if you were to torture me with hip hop. | 13:25 |
| * EchoDev plays hip hop | 13:25 | |
| EchoDev | :3 | 13:25 |
| * Belzebub plays dubstep | 13:26 | |
| Belzebub | :3 | 13:26 |
| EchoDev | Hmm, maybe I'll give Nokia a call you never know lol | 13:26 |
| Aoyagi_joytop | Heh. But it was some tiny unknown internet store anyway. | 13:26 |
| EchoDev | Ebay has them but I'm not sure they are original | 13:26 |
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| * thedead1440 thinks the Board only post/communicate when they need donations or help as a formality... | 13:48 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | guys, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/ etc - are those as well in SDK? or do we need to mirror it? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, if you want your council to take care about keeping maemo.org infra alive, you should help on defining that task at least | 14:34 |
| thedead1440 | agreed | 14:35 |
| thedead1440 | oops wrong channel :S | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we're giving a leg to backup everything, but we need input to know what "everything" means! | 14:37 |
| sourav | yeah | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *IF* original maemo.org servers go down inadvertently and never come back, and the backups we created *for you* are missing fundamental stuff, don't blame council or the volunteers that do those backups | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a list of all we backup'ed so far, on http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/ (not on *.maemo.org, for obvious reasons). Pretty please check this list for completeness!!!! | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if something is not in there, expect it to vanish eventually | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that this actually was the plan, but we need to be prepared for times when s**** hits the fan | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a thread on tmo (expected to stay up and running til 20th of January) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88031 PLEASE add your findings and comments there! | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no comments like "you rock/you suck" and similar please, but actual info about stuff we missed to backup | 14:46 |
| kerio | ~pkg | 14:47 |
| infobot | it has been said that pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ | 14:47 |
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| kerio | hm, wtf is kernel-maemo? | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, the kernel? | 14:48 |
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| kerio | no, that's kernel | 14:48 |
| kerio | kernel-maemo is in extras | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 14:48 |
| kerio | (and it's older than dirt) | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 14:49 |
| kerio | and by older than dirt i mean a year old | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe some smartass ported maemo4 diablo kernel to extras repo? ;-P | 14:49 |
| kerio | maybe it's the kernel-power before kernel-power was kernel-power | 14:50 |
| kerio | it's got 22 versions | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might be | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who's maintainer? | 14:50 |
| kerio | tanner | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KP | 14:50 |
| kerio | yep, it's KP | 14:50 |
| kerio | but old | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah I recall now | 14:51 |
| kerio | the extras repo need a serious cleanup | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got stuck on builder, so he renamed the pkg | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever removed that old kernel pkg, and tbh I dunno if we should | 14:52 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, I suggest keeping only the newest version of the package per repo | 14:55 |
| Hurrian | for older stuff, you could always pull the source | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the newest version of that particular pkg | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pondering if there are issues when removing it, since ^^^(see above) pkg got renamed | 14:56 |
| Hurrian | meh, you'll just have to rebuild the apt lists then | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's generally a poor idea to rename pkgs | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but if you do, you need to ponder possible issues with removing the old obsolete pkg | 14:57 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, let's just break things now so they're fixed in the future. The backup servers aren't live, so break things all you want. | 14:57 |
| Hurrian | Oh, by the way, is every single Harmattan PR LEGACY backed up? | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first up, *I* can't do anything about it, generally and particularly not now | 14:58 |
| Hurrian | that would be a massive waste of space, though | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, it was a massive waste of space ;-D | 14:59 |
| Hurrian | Damnit Nokia, just resign PR 001 as PR 999 and git 'er done already | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we only backed up the most recent versions, since downgrading not allowed on HARM anyway | 14:59 |
| Hurrian | Downgrading? Feh! Even cross grading to lower PR LEGACY is barred | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, that shit ate 750GB of our storage on backup server | 15:00 |
| Hurrian | ugh. has exploring delta patches to LEGACY 001 been explored? | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with old versions it would've been >2TB | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compression factor ~0.6 | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-o | 15:01 |
| Hurrian | 750GB, geez. Just for a <10MB change in a single 2GB file. | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 15:01 |
| Hurrian | People who didn't flash to 001 will be railed pretty hard when they need to reflash and /don't/ have their firmware file | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, we got all the newest FW images | 15:04 |
| Hurrian | we gotta cut the crap on that though | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so everybody can upgrade. If you wanna keep your obsolete version, you should keep the needed image to reflash though | 15:04 |
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| Hurrian | feels like a waste keeping 750GB of the same thing. | 15:05 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, how about keeping only 001, 005, and the highest non-chinese firmware, and one chinese firmware for those unlucky enough to flash that crap? | 15:05 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: instead of removing, move to extras-obsolete | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: this idea has a certain appeal, but also some downsides | 15:08 |
| kerio | or even just keep the .debs around for storage purposes | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we'll deal with that *later* | 15:09 |
| kerio | k | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for now that's so much way down on my todo, i can't even see it with a telescope | 15:09 |
| Hurrian | oh, I was going to suggest unifying all the Extras-* into one single Extras, but some users say that some Devel packages are broken. | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no changes on infra setup right now. We do migration and backup, and we got not a second to spare for any changes | 15:10 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 15:11 |
| Hurrian | Well, in the months after Maemo.org changes hands, as I understand it, the fat-trimming starts, right? | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the migration nightmare is already more than I could digest on a extended period of time | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right | 15:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this will be spring the closest though | 15:12 |
| jonwil | so exactly which pieces of infrastructure are being migrated and which (if any) are going to disappear? | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all. none (so the plan) | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if only since we got no time to decide what's dispensable | 15:14 |
| jonwil | so the full contents of http://repository.maemo.org/ will be migrated? | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 15:14 |
| jonwil | ok :) | 15:14 |
| kerio | Hurrian: to be fair, "unifying" the extras- repos means deleting everything except extras-devel | 15:15 |
| Hurrian | kerio, pretty much, yeah | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for now FUNDING is our main problem | 15:16 |
| jonwil | If I wasn't between jobs and low on cash myself, I would donate to the cause somehow... | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not for the hosting (though colocation as designed by Nokia and donated as a gift to HF board will not exactly be cheap) but for professional adminsitration aka a fulltime sysop | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so far Nokia paid Nemein for that | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would any of you be willing to do a fulltime admin job for maybe 500EUR/month? | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just asking | 15:18 |
| * kerio would, but probably isn't capable of and has no qualifications and no experience | 15:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok ok, maybe 50% part time | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | though not during actual migration chaos, which will stay for at least 2 more months | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, what kerio said: professional grade server admin qualification mandatory | 15:20 |
| jonwil | I dont have the right qualifications either | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | board got 2kbuks of donations, which could suffice til end of this month | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bucks* | 15:21 |
| jonwil | that and I am not in the right part of the world anyway :) | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | part of the world is irrelevant | 15:22 |
| jonwil | ok | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but qualification is | 15:22 |
| kerio | huh, the openpandora is pretty much a n900 | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'd take responsibility to not mess up an infra that several thousand users rely on | 15:22 |
| jonwil | only qualification I have is a computer science degree on the wall | 15:22 |
| kerio | but with dual analogs | 15:23 |
| jonwil | which these days doesn't seem to mean much to most employers :( | 15:23 |
| Skry | one unemployed sysadmin here too with all kinds of certificates that don't mean shit to anyone anymore | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: you're sysadmin? | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | Skry: you're unemployed? | 15:24 |
| Skry | yeah x2 | 15:25 |
| * joga employed sysadmin with no certificates whatsoever | 15:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please send a mail to council@maemo.org | 15:25 |
| Skry | though I've been doing something completely different for quite alot of years now | 15:25 |
| kerio | well, system administration is like cycling | 15:26 |
| jonwil | My mission right now is to continue to do whatever I can to make the N900 a better mobile device | 15:26 |
| kerio | eventually you end up using drugs | 15:26 |
| jonwil | and to continue with what reverse engineering and work I am able to do | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | offering sysop service on a professional level, your "CV"/qualifications and amount of time you could dedicate to "keeping server kernel up to date" and the wages you ask for that (we won't probably accept volunteers for free, since responsibility is lower without any payment) | 15:27 |
| jonwil | Once I can get in touch, I will work with Pali to get the local changes to the CBSMS widget into the CSSU tree | 15:27 |
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| jonwil | i.e. work with him to find code that displays correct output for me but does not break for others | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: please discuss it on #maemo-ssu | 15:28 |
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| jonwil | well Pali did all the changes in question so once he pops his head in there I can discuss it :) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that it's off topic here, but there are some guys that are only in that other chan | 15:29 |
| jonwil | nothing really to discuss as such until Pali shows up :) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also odds are those guys over there know about pali's ETA | 15:29 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: it's more like "keeping webserver up to date, php not crashing/hogging 100% CPU, and making sure that autobuilder doesn't choke on packages" | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: for that we even hope to find "sub-sysops" resp service maintainers that have no root access but do specialized tasks | 15:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | volunteers | 15:31 |
| jonwil | So is this all running on a LAMP stack? or something else? | 15:31 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, so main sysadmin does the bare metal, and sub-admins do the individual services (downloads,repo,talk,wiki)? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, that's a set of 2 or 3 dedicated servers running like 12 VMs | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: that's the idea | 15:32 |
| Hurrian | whoa, whoa, whoa, three servers? 12 VMs? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup :-) | 15:32 |
| kerio | ...why? | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what Nokia donates to board | 15:33 |
| kerio | cool, let's sell those and buy a VPS | 15:33 |
| Hurrian | kerio, no! | 15:33 |
| kerio | :D | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now you maybe understand why we need a professional sysop | 15:33 |
| Hurrian | It's better to run our own hardware. | 15:33 |
| Skry | I'm not sure if I want to take responsibility of this magnitude, especially when I'm basically in a situation where I cant accept any payment since government is going to grab it anyways, I could however volunteer on some minor admin stuff at some point. | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty welcome | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | send a mail, please | 15:34 |
| Skry | I'll do that | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could become sysop of one of the VM for example | 15:35 |
| Hurrian | hmm, I guess a single dual LGA 2011 machine with maxed RAM, and shittonnes of SATA cards, and a large bay of drives would better serve M.O's needs | 15:35 |
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| Hurrian | >1 physical machine is pretty inconvenient | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably | 15:35 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, downside is, a balls-out machine like that would easily blow 3000 USD | 15:35 |
| Hurrian | half of which are for the mainboard and CPUs alone | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia donating hw | 15:36 |
| kerio | afaik the servers from nokia are pretty beefy | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fujitsu.com/fi/products/computing/servers/primergy/rack/rx300/ | 15:37 |
| Hurrian | hmm, so Nokia literally pulled the machines from Nemein and shipped them off to wherever HF will colo them? | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin overkill if you ask me, but... | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: nope, Nokia paid Nemein to buy those rx300 and install them somewhere colo, then hand all the shite to HF | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | colo alone will probably kill us | 15:39 |
| Hurrian | whoa, Nokia bought Sandy Bridge EP servers? | 15:40 |
| Hurrian | those are a lot newer than I thought the Maemo.org servers ran on. | 15:40 |
| Hurrian | Did they move them to new servers or something? IIRC Maemo.org ran on Core 2 Quad-generation Xeons sometime back | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's been the suggestion for HW to buy, on some "internal" paper by Nemein/Nokia/whomever | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: those are brand new irons | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even installed yet | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sidenote: half of what I post here is unconfirmed hearsay, I'm not much more in any information-loop than any of you | 15:42 |
| Hurrian | That's nice. With all the beef behind that thing, one server really is enough. | 15:42 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 15:42 |
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| kerio | Hurrian: well, we're not complaining about having more servers ofc | 15:43 |
| Hurrian | Well, hopefully Nokia drops us a new server, and doesn't simply pull the running servers off the rack at Nemein. | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes we are, colo will kill us | 15:43 |
| kerio | D: | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cheap colo is like 200 bucks per month for a 1HE 500W rack | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm not all that sure Nemein found the cheapest colo they could get on this planet either | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and once some hw emits blue magic smoke on one of those irons, we're seriously doomed | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on-site hands is like 30 bucks for 15 minutes | 15:46 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: that's why you get a good colo location | 15:46 |
| Hurrian | oh, that's driving distance for some admin or longtime maemo.org member | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! | 15:47 |
| Hurrian | I've had horrible things happen with colos that had shit utilities, e.g. cooling | 15:47 |
| Hurrian | it's much more reassuring to be able to see the server in the first place | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, getting a dedicated server from a hoster is waaaay cjeaper and more manageable than any colo | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this HW donation by Nokia been a poisoned gift, in my book | 15:48 |
| kerio | sell servers, buy hookers^H^H^H^H^Hsting | 15:48 |
| thedead1440 | exactly why not just sell and buy hosting? saves a great deal of trouble+costs | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually an option I ponder | 15:49 |
| kerio | did nokia buy the servers already? | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, dedis get logarithmically expensive once you're above Core i5+16GB RAM-class servers | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but Nokia paid Nemein to migrate shite to colo heavy duty Iron they paid for, and then donate that to HF. Only after that we can ponder our options | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Nemein did | 15:50 |
| thedead1440 | sell the servers back to Nemein and transfer things into a hoster | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Nokia isn't doing such stuff, they hire service to get it done | 15:51 |
| kerio | hm | 15:51 |
| thedead1440 | i mean if they are willing to do so then it won't take more than a day or two to migrate everything over | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: that's the most favorite plan in parts of Board and Council right now | 15:52 |
| thedead1440 | in parts? that means numerous discussions resulting in 0 results as usual? | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, yup | 15:52 |
| thedead1440 | :S | 15:52 |
| thedead1440 | let me guess you must be the only one in favour of that? | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, since we got no quotations on anything, not even colo costs yet, we're just handwaving | 15:53 |
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| thedead1440 | why no quotes on colo yet? | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking to Bergie since ~3h ago, I hope things start to move there as well | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Boerd is approaching things the business stale | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | style* | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes that doesn't help to speed up communications | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's my take on that | 15:55 |
| thedead1440 | well it seems they really think they are *replacing* Nokia for maemo.org in all ways | 15:55 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, if the colo costs really are crushingly huge, then I guess Maemo.org can be split across multiple midrange VPSes | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so I started talking to co-hackers in private, on a low-official non-bureaucracy level | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: sure | 15:57 |
| thedead1440 | Hurrian: actually 2 servers is more than enough for all maemo.org contents including TMO; the costs are cheaper than a VPS when storage is taken into account | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | thedead1440, ah, right, I forgot how huge Maemo.org really was | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | heck, TMO's DB is apparently 1TB, according to Reggie | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm already paying a 'small' dedicated server where we set up a backup-hot-standby system to kick in whan plan A fails | 15:58 |
| thedead1440 | Hetzener's 50Eur plan for a dedicated server X2 is all thats ever needed | 15:58 |
| thedead1440 | Hurrian: no its 12GB not 1TB | 15:58 |
| Hurrian | oh | 15:58 |
| thedead1440 | well i saw that on the ML | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are contradicting infos | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | regarding tmo | 15:59 |
| thedead1440 | you mean on the size? | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I for one would rather believe the 12GB figure | 16:00 |
| thedead1440 | i saw that 12GB thing directly from Reggie on ML | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup, on a later post though he uttered something different iirc | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe that's been the total size of storage on his server then | 16:00 |
| thedead1440 | iirc he said later on ~400GB which was for traffic | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and ~10k mails per week | 16:01 |
| thedead1440 | which in all honesty are very small | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mail setup will be a PITA | 16:01 |
| Hurrian | man, TMO really needs to be condensed, unfortunately it could take man-decades to do so | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: that's the point | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for now hosting isn't our problem, manpower is | 16:02 |
| Hurrian | for the transition and all? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia afaik paying for January&February hosting | 16:02 |
| thedead1440 | so its extended again? | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, for migration and consolidation and all that stuff | 16:03 |
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| thedead1440 | so what exactly actually was supposed to go offline on 31/12? | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: nope, they seem to pay for the *new* infra, but only for 2 months | 16:03 |
| thedead1440 | oh | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the old infra was supposed to be already down | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | servers with maemo and other Nokia proprietary stuff all mixed up on them | 16:04 |
| thedead1440 | ah ic | 16:04 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, over the next few months there really needs to be a community effort to document all the shit, throw it on the wiki, categorize it properly, then archive the current TMO | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein right now migrating everything to vservers they provide, to buy them time to finish the new rx300 servers and then migrate again the vservers to those | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then hand over the rx300 irons to HF, and then we might migrate a third time :-o | 16:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks | 16:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Anyway RX300 irons are paid for hw and for 2 months hosting, and Nokia pays the migration effort until handover to HF | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and there's preety much nuttin we can do to change any detail of that process until RX300 get handed over to HF | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I managed to negotiate with Nemein for a vserver to host TMO on it, that will live on same location as the rest of *.m.o infra, wherever that is right now and in the future | 16:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | at least I think I did achieve to negotiate that - not entirely sure | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo is hosted by Reggie on his own server and basically unrelated to rest of *.m.o infra so far. Reggie will tear down the tmo server on 2013-01-20 | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | efforts to migrate tmo are ongoing | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile I try to figure how we might manage to manage | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I feel somebody needs to care about that, and HF appointed me for your humble maemo.org infra administration-coordinator | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Doc: Now you can ban people from maemo.org! | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm however no real sysop, lacking qualification | 16:17 |
| RST38h | Doc: And you can ban whole domains too! | 16:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | lol | 16:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | with great power comes great responsibility | 16:17 |
| RST38h | with great power comes fun and enjoyment of the macabre | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: indeed that's my primary duty: creating accounts for sysops and maintainers | 16:18 |
| RST38h | Doc: Yes, creating reliable network of minions,fighting for your benevolent attention | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think of me as the guy carring THE suitcase next to US president | 16:19 |
| RST38h | think of me as THE suitcase! | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where's your red button? | 16:19 |
| RST38h | you don't wanna know, no, really | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-P | 16:20 |
| * RST38h just watched DrWho Christmas special | 16:20 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 just notced it's already almost sunset, and no shopping done yet | 16:21 | |
| RST38h | Moffat is being self-ironic. The movie literally drawns in tears, and "winter is coming" is mentioned at least twice | 16:21 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: I think "benevolent operator for life" sounds better | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BOFL? | 16:21 |
| kerio | kinda like ROFL | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lord Keyholder | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I'm not really competent to do any operator job | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm competent to hand out keys and scrutinize what they're used for | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and to kick asses if somebody goes haywire | 16:24 |
| Hurrian | sounds about right | 16:24 |
| Hurrian | there's lots of qualified MO members who can run one simple task, and check on it every hour or so | 16:25 |
| Hurrian | come to think of it we need a watchdog of sorts for each individual task | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's basically the idea about getting maintainer volunteers | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe even sub-sysops | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not entirely clear on the latter | 16:26 |
| Hurrian | so basically, much like what Reggie does for tmo, and [Cross] Fade for the builder | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we already apponted chem|st for maintainer of tmo | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st accepted to do low-effort sub-sysop tasks like keeping an eye on CPU load and syslog as well | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with such an arrangement we might not need sub-sysops, since the heavy lifting (like running system updates etc) might get done by paid main sysop then, also for the VM like tmo | 16:29 |
| Hurrian | hmm, we need to part out some more stuff, such as maintenance of the front page (Midgard, was it?), garage, wiki and all the small forgotten pages | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, we need a lot of volunteers for that | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for maintenance (== user account), not for sysop on that particular VM (==root account on that VM) | 16:31 |
| Hurrian | that could be handled easily enough with user groups | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, I'm aware of the technical details - at least as much as needed to figure how our sysop will set it up | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for now and for purpose of public discussion it's sufficient to state that those positions are NOT sysop positions but maintainer positions | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we need lots of maintainers | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I *really* don't see why this friggin document wasn't posted to the public, so I'll do that now | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm (c) Ferenc Szekely, Niels Breet 2012-05-25 | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I first have to ask for permission | 16:37 |
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| RST38h | On with the pitchfors! (c) maemo.org userbase 2007-2012 | 16:37 |
| RST38h | pitchforks | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh did I say 12 VM? | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 18 ;-D | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org maemo.org apps.formeego.org wiki.maemo.org bugs.maemo.org stage.maemo.org -- static.maemo.org lists.maemo.org maintenance.maemo.org scratchbox.org dns.maemo.org repository.maemo.org test.maemo.org vcs.maemo.org garage.maemo.org drop.maemo.org db.maemo.org (DMZ only) | 16:39 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, should maintainer positions be open, where do I shoot a mail? | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council@maemo.org | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see ^^^ for possible domains (rough figure) | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | each a VM, which probably needs a maintainer | 16:41 |
| kerio | how will we call the three servers? | 16:41 |
| kerio | we need funny names | 16:41 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, how about tablets-dev? | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even listed in there | 16:42 |
| kerio | tablets-dev is .nokia.com isn't it | 16:42 |
| kerio | yep | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NFC on my side | 16:42 |
| Hurrian | yeah, it's Nokia, but the downloads should be moved to a maemo.org domain | 16:42 |
| Hurrian | assuming we get the redistrib rights | 16:42 |
| Hurrian | (do we?) | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically Nokia isn't supposed to take that domain/service down, no? | 16:43 |
| thedead1440 | theres a lot of things to move into .maemo.org but no idea on where we stand on that | 16:43 |
| thedead1440 | the thread is there; the list of things is there but whether that list has been passed onto Nokia as stated earlier is unknown | 16:43 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, that needs to be confirmed | 16:43 |
| Hurrian | if they tear down everything that isn't Lumia, we're boned | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got backups just in case - though we don't know about their completeness | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 16:44 |
| Hurrian | we need to ask Nokia for explicit permission to host the Maemo and Harmattan firmware files | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to ask Nokia about WTF they goona do at large with all that stuff | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas no contacts to Nokia that I knew of | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | should that get sorted out though, I'd be glad to watch over the firmware files and SDK rootstraps | 16:45 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: that was the explicit purpose of that thread which ivgalvez had asked for | 16:45 |
| thedead1440 | he had said Board needs a list of whatever is not on .maemo.org to be drawn up so that the Board can ask for re-distribution rights... Not heard anything about whether the list has been submitted etc... | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: sorry I'm lost in white noise with all the mails and posts on tmo. I'm simply not catching up | 16:46 |
| thedead1440 | the thread where you posted whatever is backed up was meant to be the thread where a list is drawn up for content not on maemo.org | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:47 |
| thedead1440 | if you see the list has been drawn up but since quite sometime nobody has mentioned if something else too is not on maemo.org and is missing in that list | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if board/ivgalvez is following up on that thread, or if anybody noted the tablets-dev stuff on it | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's simply not on top of my todo list right now | 16:48 |
| thedead1440 | tablets-dev was covered in that list since day 0 | 16:48 |
| thedead1440 | i wouldn't miss that :p | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it sounds like ivgalvez took that topic | 16:49 |
| thedead1440 | ivgalvez was following that thread quite closely but what has happened since ~10 days is anybody's guess... | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't control the work of everybody else in council and board | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I started on the premise I got 2h per WEEK to dedicate to that councilor position | 16:50 |
| thedead1440 | you can't control but maybe you can ask the Board if re-distribution for the contents on that list have been requested and if yes whats the status | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | board@maemo.org CC community ML | 16:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | "on behalf of Joerg(councilor)" if you like | 16:51 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 16:51 |
| r00t|home | DocScrutinizer05: if you could CONTROL the work of everybody else in council, it'd be a dictatorship :D | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl | 16:52 |
| jonwil | from where I sit, I see 4 things myself that would raise issues with regards to redistribution, the first is the firmware files (i.e. the stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.com that you can only get if you enter your device IMEI), the second is the development stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.org (VMs, flasher tools, SDK installers etc), the third is the nokia-binaries stuff in the SDK repos and the... | 16:53 |
| jonwil | ...fourth is the full set of device package files in the device SSU repository (currently hosted at downloads.maemo.nokia.com if I am reading the apt source lists correctly) | 16:53 |
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| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: email sent... | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks, please doublecheck if we got the appropriate backups anyway | 16:56 |
| thedead1440 | that list is covered | 16:56 |
| thedead1440 | double and triple checked :D | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cool :-D | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you da man! | 16:57 |
| thedead1440 | brkn ;) | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) he too | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya l8r friend | 16:57 |
| thedead1440 | see ya | 16:58 |
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| kerio | didn't nokia give permission to redistribute stuff like that, as long as it's to use in N900s only? | 17:31 |
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| wirr | hi there... can anyone help me with some strange sdhc issues? i'm using a new sandisk ultra 32gb class 10 sd card on power51. as soon as the disk uses several partition the kernel throws -110 transmission errors to dmesg. as well it's impossible to boot nemo form u-boot (same error). writing to a single 32gb fat32 partition seems to work flawlessly... | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: try to write a *huge* file to that card. It's a common hw failure pattern for such errors to appear only after several 100MB to maybe even GB of storage used up | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I once had a 16GB that failed with write error on a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/card bs=100k, after some 50..500MB transferred | 18:05 |
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| wirr | DocScrutinizer05: that's what I'm trying right now... exported card using backupmenu and write 32gb of random data to it. it's been running for 40 minutes or so without any problems so far... | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | random data is one good test pattern, writing strictly sequential like dd does is another different good one | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also on-board might yield higher datarate than via mass storage | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the controller might be over-optimized for FAT fs | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course sandisk never thought you'd create several partitions on that card | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g they might have a dedicated RAM buffer for the FAT (the file allocation table), plus a separate storage area on flash | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anything not meeting the usage pattern created by fat32 fs might fail to speed optimizations not kicking in | 18:18 |
| wirr | hmm... this would mean there is one dedicated area for one FAT, and slower speeds for any other fs? still this shouldn't produce transmission errors for partitions != FAT or with their tables not in the first few sectors, am I wrong? | 18:20 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: usually sandisk is better than that | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc, just sharing some general thoughts. Only sandisk knows what's going on inside their card and how some hw defect might show up | 18:22 |
| wirr | mhm... had no probs on card reader, but the same pattern on two different n900s | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | swap the card, get another one | 18:24 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: HF should fund the R&D for a ram-based uSD | 18:27 |
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| tadzik | so, Ubuntu is now launching their mobile OS. Wonder if the apps will be easy to port to maemo | 20:15 |
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| ShadowJK | my N900 broke! the keylock slider, the little notch thingy on it has vanished, it's totally flush with the case now :o | 20:45 |
| kerio | wat | 20:46 |
| kerio | oh | 20:46 |
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| tadzik | urgh. This is getting bad. Every time I have a phone call (call, receive, whatever), the screen goes black 90% of the time. I use the hardware screen unlocker sometimes, but then it still sometimes goes black again after half a second or so | 21:05 |
| tadzik | is there, by any chance a way to tell it "under no circumstances go black whilst a call is being made?" | 21:05 |
| kerio | it would be a tklock thing i think | 21:06 |
| kerio | i also get that sometimes, but i assumed it was fmg's fault | 21:06 |
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| kerio | :3 | 21:06 |
| tadzik | I got this before the new tklock too, and it was just as bad then, I'm afraid :) | 21:06 |
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| tadzik | a little bit as if the proximity sensor (or what was its name) is getting confused | 21:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.orginfrastructureforHildonFoundation.pdf | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops | 22:01 |
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| ShadowJK | while true; do cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ; sleep 1 ; done | 22:21 |
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| tadzik | it says "closed" all the time | 22:35 |
| tadzik | and, uh, "open" from time to time too | 22:35 |
| unclouded | that's cool. mine only says "closed" when my hand gets within about 1cm | 22:36 |
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| tadzik | it seems to get better sometimes when I squeeze the display near the sensor | 22:39 |
| Ikarus | anyone know if you can force a N900 to detect a sd card | 22:40 |
| tadzik | perhaps it has moved too far from the glass, and it thinks it my ear? | 22:40 |
| Ikarus | the magnet for back open/close detection is gone on this back and I can't replace it easily | 22:41 |
| tadzik | yeah, it gets definitely better after a "squeeze" | 22:41 |
| tadzik | (most of the time) | 22:41 |
| ShadowJK | screen protector covering it? | 22:43 |
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| tadzik | nah, screen protector is cut nicely around it | 22:44 |
| tadzik | it's right in the corner of it | 22:44 |
| tadzik | but well, this is the flex cable I have inserted there, when the factory one broke | 22:44 |
| tadzik | maybe that I let some dirt slip in, or such? | 22:45 |
| tadzik | iirc, proximity sensor is part of it | 22:45 |
| tadzik | I wonder if I can replace it with a static file saying "open" :D | 22:47 |
| tadzik | it should get back to normal after a reboot anywa | 22:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: I suspect dust or dirt | 22:58 |
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| tadzik | yay, disassembly again | 22:59 |
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| tadzik | also: I know for some people usb port gets loose, is it also known to happen to audio jacks slots? | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | audio jack is spring loaded, it basically can't get loose | 23:00 |
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| tadzik | well, it seems as if the jack plug is loose inside it | 23:00 |
| tadzik | I was wondering if it's a bad thing, but in the end it appears that it's the headphones which start to break near the jack plug. As always | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then it has too much free gap to the bay in case where it sits in | 23:01 |
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| tadzik | I guess it's not a good business model for headphone manufacturers to make jack plugs that don't break every few months | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | swapping for a new AV-receptacle is a 10$ 15 minutes operation at any nokia care point with own repair center | 23:02 |
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| kerio | ~seen pali | 23:31 |
| infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 5d 10h 11m 32s ago, saying: 'freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard?'. | 23:31 |
| kerio | ~seen infobot | 23:31 |
| infobot | infobot is currently on #utos (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-doc (1d 19h 55m 49s) #botpark (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##t42 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #maemo (1d 19h 55m 49s) #fredlug (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##ols (1d 19h 55m 49s) #n9 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-scf-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #flyspray (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #webos-internals (1d 19h 55m 49s) ... | 23:31 |
| kerio | heh | 23:31 |
| kerio | ~seen apt | 23:31 |
| infobot | apt is currently on #debian (5d 1h 28m 9s) ##icf (5d 1h 28m 9s) #elive (5d 1h 28m 9s) #htc-linux (5d 1h 28m 9s) #kde (5d 1h 28m 9s) #wowroster (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko (5d 1h 28m 9s) #slug (5d 1h 28m 9s) #lugwv (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debian-france (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debianppc (5d 1h 28m 9s) #linuxpakistan (5d 1h 28m 9s) ... | 23:31 |
| kerio | ~uptime | 23:32 |
| kerio | no snarky message when you look for her? | 23:32 |
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| lnxmen | Hello, I have a problem with my N900 | 23:49 |
| Cor-Ai | what? | 23:50 |
| lnxmen | Three days ago, I snowboarded... Many times I fell down and my phone doesn't work | 23:51 |
| lnxmen | It was in pocket in the jacket | 23:51 |
| kerio | ... | 23:51 |
| kerio | why? | 23:51 |
| tadzik | is it safe to assume that "doesn't work" means "doesn't turn on at all"? | 23:52 |
| lnxmen | tadzik: yes | 23:52 |
| kerio | lnxmen: did the pocket get wet? | 23:52 |
| tadzik | is/was it wet? | 23:52 |
| tadzik | bah, beaten to it | 23:52 |
| lnxmen | No, pocket wasn't wet | 23:53 |
| kerio | you said you fell... did you fall *on it*? | 23:53 |
| lnxmen | anyway I keeped my phone in rice... | 23:53 |
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| kerio | lnxmen: rice does jack shit to absorb humidity | 23:53 |
| lnxmen | kerio: *on it*.. it's difficult to say, pocket is above the heart | 23:54 |
| tadzik | were there any extreme temperatures? | 23:55 |
| lnxmen | so when I fall I think my elbows protect the phone... | 23:55 |
| kerio | you *hope* | 23:55 |
| ShadowJK | hm.. lens cover doesnt open fully anymore... and a spring belonging to kickstand fell out :) | 23:55 |
| lnxmen | tadzik: No, 1-3C | 23:55 |
| Aoyagi | When you fall on a snowboard, your elbows are in front of your or behind you keeping you from falling too hard. | 23:56 |
| tadzik | then they hurt like seven helss | 23:56 |
| Aoyagi | Aye. | 23:56 |
| kerio | infobot: #maemo snowboarding is a sport that kills your n900 | 23:56 |
| infobot | okay, kerio | 23:56 |
| kerio | ~snowboarding | 23:56 |
| infobot | [snowboarding] a sport that kills your n900 | 23:56 |
| kerio | alright | 23:56 |
| kerio | lnxmen: did you try a different battery? | 23:57 |
| lnxmen | No... | 23:57 |
| kerio | can you see any damage from the outside? | 23:57 |
| lnxmen | But I checked my battery | 23:57 |
| lnxmen | It was 2.7V | 23:57 |
| lnxmen | 2.8 * | 23:57 |
| kerio | ...so your battery is out of juice | 23:58 |
| kerio | EDV1 is around 3.2 | 23:58 |
| lnxmen | what | 23:58 |
| lnxmen | so I should check it with another battery? | 23:58 |
| kerio | yep | 23:59 |
| kerio | if you're sure about your measurement | 23:59 |
| lnxmen | kerio: N900 haven't any scratch | 23:59 |
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