IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-09-16

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ShadowJKbut is not having to swap sim cards worth the premium00:35
ShadowJKWell, and I guess you'd have to get the cards yourself too00:36
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GGoncygwin works pretty well from what i remembrer01:19
GGonsure wish it had apt :-/01:19
nox-cygwin works, but its slow01:20
nox-on recent-ish hw an *ix vm is often faster01:21
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GGonnox-: yeah but then you have that separation01:50
GGoncygwin is good for keeping it windows :)01:50
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GGoni don't know about slow. i'm using it now and it seems fair.. but i haven't done much with it other than bash, lynx, ssh etc01:51
GGonthe low level stuff01:51
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Maceri also learned disabling my broken n900 modem saves battery life :)01:53
Macerguess i will use it as a nit01:53
Maceralmost makes me wish i could buy an enclosure to cover the ear hole01:53
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RST38hYou can buy enclosure for the whole thing, lubricated!01:54
* RST38h bing helpful01:54
Maceri was just going to bondo it and paint it01:54
kerioMacer: huh... why?01:55
Macerkerio: i was joking01:55
keriosip/skype over wifi01:55
Maceroh. yeah guess that's true01:55
Macerbut skype is a power whore01:55
RST38hexcept that I have never managed to get decent SIP/Skype connectivity from N90001:56
Macerskype seemed ok on it01:56
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Macerjust ate a ton of power01:56
Macerskype was selling n900s on their site a while back01:57
RST38hNot any more though =)01:57
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Maceri'm taking the windows phone route tho.. unless someone revives maemo in new hardware01:57
Macernow you cant even get an n900 on amazon01:57
* RST38h ended up with Samsung Note01:59
RST38hAnd yes, Android does suck, although not as much as WinPho01:59
Macerfk ad-droid01:59
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befordnote 2?02:00
Maceri still have a tf101 im giving to my dad02:00
Macerjust to get rid of02:00
RST38hMacer: COnsider it from this direction: it is either Android or suffering WP7 or joining the cargo cult of Jobs witnesses02:00
Maceri migrated all my email off google02:00
RST38hMacer: Doesn't the green trashcan look all more attractive now? =)02:00
RST38hbeford: 102:01
Macerwho cares lol. wp isnt bad02:01
Maceri like it02:01
RST38hbeford: the at&t variety, with the buttons.02:01
RST38hMacer: ffffffffffuuuuuuuuu02:01
Macerhahaha... seriously02:01
RST38hMacer: Makes me want to throw up02:01
Macerit is surprisingly good ;)02:01
RST38hMacer: Just updated lumia today, almost threw up02:01
Macerthey release 7.8?02:02
GGonthe update is fine02:03
GGonthe update was for their broken wifi02:04
GGonthat kept screwing up when it would reconnect after a couple of times02:04
GGonamongst other minor fixes... at least it wasn't lke my tf10102:04
RST38hMacer: they are not telling you what the update is about02:04
RST38hso no idea02:04
GGonwhose broken kernel (that didn't get fixed for over a month) would randomly reboot the tablet02:04
GGonomg that was horrible02:04
GGonand asus wouldn't admit there was a problem02:05
GGoni even went so far as to rma it02:05
GGonget a new one02:05
GGonwith the same problem!02:05
GGoni will never buy anything asus ever again02:05
GGonRST38h: but the lumia update was for flakey wifi02:06
GGonyou didn't have problems when it would reconnect? :)02:06
nox-i guess you call that banana software...02:06
GGonwhere stuff would timeout for a while then kick in.. or just not work at all?02:06
GGonafter they fixed that with the update the lumia has been awesome. i love it. still wish i had maemo. but hey.. it is what it is02:06
GGonblame obama02:06
befordI dont like the wp7 ui02:10
GGoni do02:13
GGonCYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 ITOP 1.7.16(0.262/5/3) 2012-07-20 22:55 i686 Cygwin02:13
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GGoni don't mind the tiling system too much.. although i wish they'd release wp7.8 for the lumia so i can use the smaller multi columned tiles02:14
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GGoni also wish more stuff rotated.. but coming from maemo.. i guess i'm used to that :-P02:14
GGonlike the tile screen02:14
Gh0styits #maemo here not #wp02:24
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jpinxfor the last dozen or so reboots of my n900 the filesystem is being mounted read-only. How can I fix this?04:22
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merlin1991jpinx: everything in the file system or only ie MyDocs05:25
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jpinxmerlin1991: probably only MyDocs05:28
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merlin1991you could unmont it and do a fsckh.vfat on it, though I'd copy my data to a pc first05:30
jpinxmerlin1991: it's mighty wierd - mount tells me it is rw, but when I try to touch a file in MyDocs it says it's ro05:30
merlin1991jpinx: what does it say in /proc/mounts05:31
GGonwatching horizon05:32
GGonlove this show05:32
GGonbritish nova heh05:32
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jpinxmerlin1991: tells me everything on /dev/mmcblk0p2 is rw, but /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs vfat ro,nosui......05:33
jpinxso it appears to be confined to MyDocs05:34
merlin1991so probably the kernel remounted it due to a rw error05:34
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jpinxmerlin1991: I can copy off everythig and do what?05:34
merlin1991well save your data, unmount it, run fschk.vat on it and reboot05:34
jpinxfsck that /dev ?05:34
merlin1991just make sure you save your data first05:35
jpinxok - cool - thanks - I'll backup and do that now while I'm ssh'd into it05:35
merlin1991the fsck on maemo is a bit older and prone to ruin the filesystem instead of saving it05:35
merlin1991as long as you save your data you can just reformat the partition to vfat (everything is on the device)05:36
merlin1991fsck, might be just a tad more convenient if it works out :)05:36
jpinxok -rsyncing data now05:38
jpinxI'll do the fsck for the sake of trying it - I have time  ;)05:38
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jpinxmerlin1991: just hope it doesn't b0rk the usb modem mode I'm using now,,,05:39
merlin1991jpinx: that's more than unlikely05:40
merlin1991the usb modem mode is a kernel module, fsck has no influence over that :D05:40
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jpinxmerlin1991: hope so ;)05:42
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jpinxmerlin1991 do you have any idea what this is? .fuse_hidden0000001900000002 1.75G06:15
merlin1991but fuse is a userspace filesystem, ususally used to mount ntfs06:15
merlin1991or samba06:16
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jpinxseems odd --  and big06:18
jpinxI wonder if it is something the OVI-suite put in there?06:19
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jpinxwhen I was using XP about a yar ago I used OVI-suite to connect, but no if I use XP I use the nokia pc-suite cos it's lighter06:21
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jpinxmaybe DocScrutinizer05 knows what it is ;)06:39
jpinx  MyDocs/.fuse_hidden0000001900000002 1.75G06:40
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DocScrutinizer05soory nope10:32
DocScrutinizer05sorry even10:32
DocScrutinizer05looks like a (possibly stale) fusefs "handle"10:33
DocScrutinizer05might actually be pc suite10:33
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DocScrutinizer05>>"You can safely ignore .fuse_hiddenXXXX files. It means a file was deleted but there is at least one software which is still using it, so it can't be removed permanently. It will be done automatically when the relevant software stops using the file or exists. Such files are always gone after umount/reboot. This is how Linux and any Unix works but only FUSE exposes these files to the user. In the future we may try to make them10:39
DocScrutinizer05unvisible but that's not very simple." NTFS-3G Developer:  <<10:39
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: so this means some process opened a file on your (probably NTFS) remote mounted filesystem10:42
DocScrutinizer05fuse is user space file system, which can mount several real remote filesystems for user, like (most commonly known) sshfs, but also NTFS and others10:43
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: thank you very much for looking in detail10:44
jpinxI'm copying the whole of MyDocs onto the laptop and I'll do fsck on that device in the n900. Hopefully that will mount it rw10:45
jpinxfailing that I'll consider reformatting the device that's mounted on MyDocs10:46
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: beware, fsck on N900 often (or most of the times) literally takes days, since not enough RAM to handle the huge data tables fsck needs to manage to "correct" the metadata in a filesystem10:51
jogadays? ._o10:51
DocScrutinizer05better attach N900 to a linux PC via USB, and run fsck there10:51
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jpinxis it any better if I fsck it ove ssh from the laptop?10:51
jpinxok - snap ;)10:52
keriowhy would that change anything? :o10:52
jogaI've done fsck on the device a couple of times and it hasn't taken very long, maybe a couple of minutes, but maybe there wasn't much to fix10:52
DocScrutinizer05not over ssh, but via mass storage modfe10:52
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keriois g_nokia opensource?10:52
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: ok - I can fsck theat device in massstorage even if it's mounted?10:52
DocScrutinizer05of course it depends on number of metadata - read: number of dirs/files - on the volume to check10:52
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: it's annoying that I can not delete a lot of the data  befroe fscking --10:53
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: mass storage mode umounts the volume on N900 system, and it shouldn't be automounted or at least can get umounted on the PC10:53
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: ah - yes - I remmebr now that massstorage messes the native mount up ;)10:55
jpinxso that's a feature - not a bug ;)10:55
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: that's the whole idea behind all that: on error remount r/o, so nobody can do further damage to data. Otherwise it's unpredictable what happens to data during rm when metadata is corrupt10:55
jpinxyep - it allbeomes clear when I am confronted with the inytended use ;)10:56
jpinxso I am guessing that selecting mass-storage basically umounts MyDocs ( and /media/mmc ) before mounting them remotely10:57
keriobefore exporting them10:58
keriog_file_storage just presents them as a usb mass storage device10:58
jpinxkerio - ok :)10:58
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jpinxrsync-ing from the n900 to the laptop seems slow - running at about 2MB/s - is that normal?11:01
keriojpinx: yep11:03
keriothe n900 has too little ram to do meaningful I/O stuff11:03
kerioembiggening the queue size helps a lot, though11:03
jpinxkerio: ok - what's that and how do I do it?11:04
kerioecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests11:06
kerioecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests11:06
kerioas root11:06
DocScrutinizer05much appreciated you do it during rsync and watch any change in data thruput11:07
* jpinx ssh into n90011:08
jpinxI am only doing MyDocs, so only mmcblk0 needed to do.... ?11:10
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: while you're at it, do a ls ~user/MyDocs/11:10
DocScrutinizer05and ls /media/mmc*11:10
keriojpinx: it's beneficial for both, but yeah11:11
DocScrutinizer05it *should* be empty now when both are umounted due to mass storage11:11
DocScrutinizer05oops wait, you're still rsyncing. So nothing umounted yet11:11
jpinxecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests  has put it up to 3.8*MB/s11:12
DocScrutinizer05I just hope it's no temprary effect, until the additional queue entries are also used up11:13
jpinxwatching the throughput - it never makes it over 411:13
jpinxbut it is significantly faster11:14
jpinxdo I need to undo that setting at some point?11:14
DocScrutinizer05continue watching it, it either is persistent or drops to 'old' lower value in a few minutes11:14
DocScrutinizer05the latest11:14
DocScrutinizer05not really11:15
DocScrutinizer05it's more like it alas will reset itself during next boot11:15
jpinxok -11:16
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DocScrutinizer05it's brobably eating several 100kB of your free RAM though11:16
jpinxstill chugging at 3.8611:16
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jpinxno sweat on ram . I am only  using ss11:17
jpinxonly the modem using the same usb connection11:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah, mass storage mode will probably conflict with that11:19 it won't11:20
keriothere just *isn't*11:20
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kerioyou either have usb networking (g_nokia) or mass storage mode (g_file_storage)11:20
DocScrutinizer05that's what I call conflict11:21
jpinxI'm in usb networking atm11:21
jpinxnot using massstorage11:21
jpinxrsyncing by usb network11:21
jpinxthat's probably why it'sslow - but I need that network to stay online11:21
DocScrutinizer05nah, USB is capable of ~30MB/s11:22
DocScrutinizer05it also may share that bandwidth to allow rsync and "modem"11:23
jpinxstill chugging at around 3.8MB/s11:25
DocScrutinizer05if USB was the bottleneck, then increasing nr_requests wouldn't have helped11:25
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: if you like, you might try 16k nr_requests11:26
micknameis there a problem with maemo wiki or just my internet?11:26
DocScrutinizer05see if that even increases speed any further11:26 doesnt seem to work and im missing all the stylesheets/images11:26 usual weekend outage11:27
DocScrutinizer05mickname: same here11:27
DocScrutinizer05at least yesterday11:27
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: what's the syntax to make it do 16K ?11:28
DocScrutinizer05the same ;-)11:28
DocScrutinizer05echo 16000 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests11:28
* kerio stares at DocScrutinizer05 11:29
jpinxAh-ha ;)11:29
* jpinx waits for acceleration :)11:30
jpinxno significant difference .....11:31
DocScrutinizer05thought as much11:31
DocScrutinizer05thanks for testing11:31
jpinxmy pleasure11:32
DocScrutinizer05maybe it's no brilliant idea to reduce it to 8k during rsync running. Better wait until it finished11:33
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DocScrutinizer05(if you want to revert to 8k like it's been before)11:34
DocScrutinizer05duh, maybe these are some of the "reversed" sysnodes? (during boot the uSD is mmcblk0 and internal eMMC is mmcblk1)11:36
jpinxI'll sit tight now ;)11:36
DocScrutinizer05*might* actually need echo 16000 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests11:36
jpinxfun's over - rsync completed11:37
jpinxI've noted those tricks for next time ;)11:37
DocScrutinizer05I once even had a wrapper around cp to change that value before copy from one storage to other11:38
kerioDocScrutinizer05: why?11:39
keriojust leave them at the high value11:39
DocScrutinizer05yeah, probably ok as well11:39
jpinxkerio: don't think it's persistent acrtoss reboots11:40
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: you can edit sbin/preinit or whatever the init script that already does similar setup stuff11:40
DocScrutinizer05grep /etc for "echo*>*/dev"11:41
jpinxnow -- can I run fsck on blk0 while using the usb- network and not lose my modem facility?11:41
keriojpinx: nope11:42
DocScrutinizer05sure, on device11:42
kerioonly one gadget module can be loaded at the same time11:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: don't be silly11:42
DocScrutinizer05already noted it might take days11:42
DocScrutinizer05but there's a chance it will only take minutes11:43
DocScrutinizer05umount /home/user/MyDocs11:43
DocScrutinizer05fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p??11:44
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is strong coffee11:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how is one supposed to remount it with the same options?11:44
jpinx   ;)11:45
keriooh, osso-mmc-mount or something11:45
kerio    ;)11:45
jpinxkerio: I'll probably mount it byt eh windows method11:45
jpinxreboot ;)11:45
DocScrutinizer05actually a mount /home/user/MyDocs should suffice, if fstab is ok11:45
* jpinx copies out fstab11:46
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jpinx/dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs vfat noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir 0 011:47
* DocScrutinizer05 feels like sunday morning nap nevertheless11:47
jpinxis that looking sane ?11:47
DocScrutinizer05sure, just do "mount /home/user/MyDocs"11:48
jpinxok -first to umount and fsck it11:48
DocScrutinizer05mount *should* automatically use the fstab entry11:48
jpinxyes mount -a should be good11:49
DocScrutinizer05hmm, why mount --all ?11:49
jpinxit normally mounts anything in fstab that isn't already mounted11:50
DocScrutinizer05mount /home/user/MyDocs11:50
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: just me and my bad habits ;)11:50
jpinxok k11:50
* jpinx goes for broke11:51
jpinxumount didn't break anything...11:51
jpinxouch !!!!11:52
jpinxfsck ran a lot of errors up.....11:53
DocScrutinizer05that's expected11:53
DocScrutinizer05but fsck-ing some 28GB takes time, depending on how much of it actually been used11:54
jpinxit's sulking --  or choking ;)11:55
DocScrutinizer05and if you run short on real RAM on the procedure, system will enter swap hell and take forever11:55
jpinxReclaimed 214 unused clusters (14024704 bytes).11:55
jpinxFree cluster summary wrong (138589 vs. really 138803)11:55
jpinx1) Correct11:55
jpinx2) Don't correct11:55
jpinx? 111:55
jpinxInvalid input.11:55
DocScrutinizer05try 'y'11:56
DocScrutinizer05or even 'yes'11:56
* jpinx runs it again11:57
jpinxy and yes are invlaid :(11:58
DocScrutinizer05try yes in you rlocale11:58
DocScrutinizer05tbh I never seen 1)... 2)... on fsck11:58
* DocScrutinizer05 recalls "correct? [y/N]"11:59
jpinxyou want me to run the fsck on the native screen/(kbd ?11:59
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't make much differnece12:01
DocScrutinizer05fsck -a <device>12:01
jpinxnot sure what you mean by "try yes in my locale"12:02
DocScrutinizer05if you're running on fr_FR try 'o' or 'oui', in de_DE try 'j' or 'ja'12:03
jpinxeverything is in english here12:04
DocScrutinizer05or simply run "LANG=C fsck ..."12:04
DocScrutinizer05then never mind12:04
jpinxunless my previous connnections from a spanish XP last year have left some traces12:05
DocScrutinizer05probably maemo fschk is fsckdup (as usual), and you might need to use automatic fixing instead of interactive12:05
jpinxI thought this is automatic?12:06
* jpinx reads man fsck12:06
DocScrutinizer05try parameters like -a and/or -y12:06
jpinxrunning -a12:08
jpinxslow now - it must be munching the errors12:08
DocScrutinizer05you'll bite own ass for not adding -V12:09
jpinxseems to have exited ok - running again12:09
DocScrutinizer05ooh, that was fast12:10
jpinxand second run showed no errors :)12:10
jpinxyea - I thought of -V as soon as I hit Return ;)12:11
jpinxok - now to remount12:11
DocScrutinizer05mount /home/user/MyDocs12:11
DocScrutinizer05ls -l /home/user/MyDocs/xxx12:12
jpinxffs -- now there'sa  gazzillion fies of FSCK0204.REC12:12
DocScrutinizer05so fs been thoroughly messed up12:13
jpinxI guess I can delete them - they were temps while fsck was working ?12:13
DocScrutinizer05you better mkfs.vfat12:13
DocScrutinizer05then rsync back your stuff12:14
DocScrutinizer05no temps, salvaged file remnants12:14
jpinxHmmm .. is it worth deleting and seeing if it breaks anything?12:14
DocScrutinizer05you could try12:14
DocScrutinizer05though I guess mkfs is faster12:15
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DocScrutinizer05and for sure you're missing real files now, and/or other files got truncated12:15
jpinxI can do some damage with rm *.REC12:15
jpinxdone - and seems like the data is intact12:17
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DocScrutinizer05I bet some files vanished or got truncated12:17
jpinxI'll keep the backups for a few days ;)12:17
DocScrutinizer05*.REC are RECovered files afaik12:17
jpinxI guessed that too12:18
jpinxI'll run it until I get a problem and then mkfs and rsync back12:18
jpinxthanks for all the hand-holding DocScrutinizer05 -- you're a star ;)12:18
DocScrutinizer05you could run rsync right now, to recover ehat got lost12:18
jpinxI want to go throught the backup and select stuff I actually don't want12:19
DocScrutinizer05depending on amount of lost/truncated files this should run considerably faster than full restore12:19
jpinxyes - rsync will not waste time doing full copies12:20
jpinxif the origina is still ok12:20
DocScrutinizer05that's what it's made for12:20
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* jpinx is an rsync junkie :)12:20
DocScrutinizer05you however should select rsync options for deep inspection12:20
jpinxI backup woth -rphaxPHAX12:21
DocScrutinizer05odds are file data might have changed despite file size remained unchanged12:21
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* jpinx will dive into man rsync now...12:21
jpinxand I need to go out -- dinner date.... ;)12:22
jpinxthanks again for the help dude12:22
DocScrutinizer05-c checksum-based-check12:23
DocScrutinizer05c, --checksum              skip based on checksum, not mod-time & size12:23
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: alright, mydocs is in fstab12:42
keriobut what about the uSD?12:42
keriojpinx: who goes to dinner at 11 in the morning? :O12:43
keriooh god, syncing contacts with big images is awful12:44
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briggershello hello, anyone around?16:14
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keriono one here16:16
keriowe knew you needed help, so we ran away16:16
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* kerio might be lying slightly16:17
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briggersI requested permission to upload to Extras-devel last friday. I still dont have permission. It's been a week so I was wondering if there's anyone I can poke to look into it?16:19
keriohm, afaik had some problems, and it's still not working properly16:20
briggersIt's been acting weird for me only today, seems like the style sheets arent loading.16:20
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DocScrutinizer05briggers: X-Fade16:31
DocScrutinizer05briggers: I think he said he's on holiday or sth16:32
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briggersDocScrutinizer05: Thanks a lot. I'll PM him next friday then16:32
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.16:33
DocScrutinizer05~seen X-Fade16:34
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego #maemo-ssu, last said: 'ZogG_laptop: ?'.16:34
briggerssweet, thanks for the infobot tips.16:34
DocScrutinizer05!seen X-Fade16:37
DocScrutinizer05povbot_: seen X-Fade16:37
povbot_DocScrutinizer05: X-Fade was last seen in #maemo 6 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <X-Fade> ZogG_laptop: Servers owned by Nemein.16:37
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GGonapt-cyg is nice in cygwin16:45
GGoni should try learning how to develop using cygwin :)16:45
GGoncygwin and C# :-P16:48
GGontalk about a kick in the teeth16:48
* DocScrutinizer05 runs16:48
GGoni'm installing a bunch of dev tools now16:48
GGongoing to bust out the C for dummies book and go to work :)16:48
* DocScrutinizer05 immediately starts feeling same allergic itching again he felt with last job16:49
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FlyserDoes anyone have experience with the different variants of fennec/firefox builds for N900? which one would you recommend?17:46
kerioFlyser: if you're willing to install some experimental stuff, cssu-thumb has a thumb2 build of fennec17:48
kerioit's... usable, strangely enough17:48
FlyserI guess I would have to install all of cssu-thumb?17:49
kerioyou need at least a patched kernel though, there's a SiErr with the n900's cpu17:49
kerionah, not all of it17:49
FlyserI am using kernel power, which is patched17:50
keriothen download the deb from the repo and try it17:50
keriodon't enable the repo or it'll prompt you to install all the things17:51
keriofreemangordon: fennec from -thumb should work fine, as long as you have a thumby kernel, right?17:51
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Flyserkerio: It will update libstdc++617:59
FlyserI don't think that's a good idea, if I dont use all of cssu-thumb17:59
keriohave you enabled the repo?18:00
keriojust manually download the fennec .deb18:00
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Flyserthat does not work18:02
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Flysermissing dependencies18:02
kerioFlyser: i can see that it depends on libstdc++6>=4.7.2-0+cssu018:02
keriodo you not even have cssu installed? :(18:03
keriooh, i see18:03
kerioit's a thumb thing, yea18:04
kerioFlyser: i'm sorry :(18:05
kerioor, rather, it's a gcc4.7 thing18:06
FlyserI see18:07
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abufaisalHi all, Is there a way to read the sms messages using QBW?19:22
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infobotConfigurable image directory thumbnail viewer. URL:
kerioinfobot: cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively19:39
infobotokay, kerio19:39
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what you'll do when I change my nick to <ACTION> or <REPLY> ;-P19:40
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively19:41
keriomessage endorsed by the Scrutinizing PhDs Foundation19:50
DocScrutinizer05I'll eventually endorse it with a side-by-side video comparision19:55
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deepykerio: got my N900 now20:35
keriocool story bro20:36
infobotmaemo-flashing is probably
kerioflash both COMBINED and VANILLA20:37
deepythe switch on the opposite of the charger is the power on?20:37
keriono, the power on is on the top20:37
keriothat switch is the lock slider20:37
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deepydoes that nuke the lock code?20:41
keriothe default lock code is 12345, like every nokia20:43
kerioit shouldn't ask for it, though20:44
DocScrutinizer05actually flashing both *does* nuke lockcode afaik20:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you sure? i thought it was stored in CAL20:44
keriodeepy: in the first boot, don't keep your SIM in20:45
DocScrutinizer05the code is stored in CAL, the flag that decides whether to ask for it not20:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: oh good point20:45
keriodeepy: don't put your SIM in until you have reflashed it, don't put your SIM in in your first boot until you have removed cherry20:45
kerio(or installed notmynokia)20:45
DocScrutinizer05deepy: indeed see 'cherry' in:20:45
infobotsomebody said jrtools was
deepyIs there a chance that I do not need to flash it?20:46
keriodeepy: seriously? :s20:46
deepyIt's a second-hand.20:46
keriois there a chance you don't need to reinstall the OS on your new computer?20:47
deepyfair enough20:47
kerioit being second-hand makes it even worse20:47
keriohow much did you pay for it, btw?20:47
* kerio hates deepy20:47
deepyIt's okay20:48
deepyThere's a slight scratch on one of the corners20:48
deepyoh darn20:48
DocScrutinizer05you better practice flashing now that you don't have to lose anything20:48
deepydo I need Linux to flash stuff to it?20:48
keriono, but iirc the windows flasher is kinda meh20:49
DocScrutinizer05odds are you'll be happy about your knowledge later on, when you really need it20:49
DocScrutinizer05linux strongly recommended for flashing. Allegedly it works under some winduze versions too, but honestly support for that is sparse20:50
kerioit's not "to flash stuff"20:50
kerioit's "to flash the OS, once"20:50
DocScrutinizer05honestly, get used to it nevertheless20:51
DocScrutinizer05otherwise you'll be scared when you messed up, while you actually shouldn't be scared at all20:51
DocScrutinizer05flashing is painless, once you got the prerequisites together20:52
DocScrutinizer05if you don't have a proper linux PC, use a live CD and a USB memory stick for the flasher binary and the images20:52
DocScrutinizer05there's a zillion linux distros with nice live-CD support in the internet20:53
DocScrutinizer05or you actually try flashing under windows, if it works for you then fine, why not20:55
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deepyLatest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N90020:56
deepyis that the one I want?20:56
kerioregardless of the hardware20:56
deepyVanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900 - I flash that one first?20:57
deepyerr, the one that says latest20:57
deepyLatest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N90020:58
DocScrutinizer05latest VANILLA and latest COMBINED20:58
keriodeepy: you have to not boot between the flashing of vanilla and combined20:58
deepyit's okay, I am keeping that in mind20:59
DocScrutinizer05vanilla you only want to flash once, usually you don't need that, it's "user data"20:59
DocScrutinizer05read the page infobot linked you to, *completely*, it has proper instructions21:00
deepyWe're looking at 16kb/s, I'm gonna sort it out tomorrow21:01
DocScrutinizer05and you'll learn the first basics about your N90021:01
keriono, sort it out right now! :(21:03
deepyHow am I going to sort it out today?21:03
deepythere's 5 hours left on the download21:03
DocScrutinizer05kerio: he'll need to download quite some MB of images, that will take til tomorrow anyway on 16kbps21:03
DocScrutinizer05deepy: just plenty of time to read that page about flashing ;-)21:04
infobotfrom memory, maemo-flashing is
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DocScrutinizer05read it *completely*21:05
DocScrutinizer05watch out when it talks about COMBINED and when about VANILLA, esp in commands quoted21:05
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DocScrutinizer05read both the instructions for linux and those for windows, notice the similarities21:07
DocScrutinizer05when you've finished, read it again21:07
deepyokay, freed up a lot of bandwidth21:09
deepystill lagging as much as before21:09
keriolag is different from throughput, though21:09
kerioa truck filled with hard drives is incredibly laggy, but the throughput is amazing21:10
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sure, until you order one HDD again21:10
DocScrutinizer05since it got damaged on first shipment21:11
DocScrutinizer05and if you have to read out some README on first HDD to know which is the second to order, you're doomed21:12
DocScrutinizer05since that whole nice truck will only deliver one HDD every 2 weeks21:12
keriojust throw some redundancy in it21:13
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DocScrutinizer05which for sure is less usable bandwidth than even my cheesy 2MB DSL21:13
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DocScrutinizer052Mbit actually21:13
kerioyou have a 2Mbit connection? :(21:14
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* kerio is really sorry for you21:14
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deepy25m left21:22
deepyalso, snail mailing usb sticks is one of the fastest ways to transfer data in several countries21:22
kerioa station wagon filled with microSDs holds *a lot* of data21:23
keriothe seek time is kinda bad, though21:23
kerioeven without considering the time to move it from a place to the next21:24
keriodeepy: things you should do once you have flashed correctly: boot without your SIM in, touch .cherry_state21:25
keriofrom xterm21:26
keriothen maybe install CSSU21:26
deepyare those listed in the flashing page that you and Doc linkedme to?21:26
keriono, that's after21:28
kerioboot without your SIM in because there's a stupid thing, the internal name is cherry, which registers you to the MyNokia service via sms21:29
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keriohm, afterwards i'd get root (install rootsh from the package manager), and remove cherry and the stuff that ends with "-installer"21:31
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deepykerio: what's the mynokia service?21:37
keriothey send you ads and other silly stuff21:37
deepyCan I contact Nokia and get a refund on the SMS?21:39
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keriodeepy: in theory?21:41
kerioit's probably not worth it, as usual21:41
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deepyokay. so VANILLA is the first to flash?21:56
kerioyeah, you have to reboot once you flash COMBINED21:56
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deepybeh, drivers22:01
keriowindows? :c22:01
keriobad deepy, bad22:01
deepyPunch NVidia for me22:02
deepyNot my fault that Optimus is no go on BSD22:02
keriowhy not linux? :D22:02
deepyIt's no good there either22:03
keriowell of course is not, linus keeps giving nvidia the finger22:03
kerioit's no surprise they get upset :322:03
deepyOnce this message appears, run inf-wizard.exe from libusb-win32 package and create an inf file for "N900 (PC Suite Mode)" and install this inf driver22:04
deepyhow's that going to solve any-oh22:04
JaffaX-Fade: (and anyone else with access) - (what serves the CSS) is down.22:08
deepyInstalling Driver... - So how was your day?22:08
deepyI like this application22:08
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keriolibusb never cared for my feelings :(22:12
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deepyokay, somethin May(tm) have gone wrong22:18
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deepywoo, now it worked!22:26
DocScrutinizer05just make sure you always flash COMBINED _last_22:29
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deepyAh no, I kinda missed half of combineds install at first22:30
DocScrutinizer05because after flashing COMBINED, each subsequent power-up (plug in USB) or reboot will start a process known as optification, that will get destroyed when you flash VANILLA after that process got started22:31
DocScrutinizer05the result is undefined22:31
deepysay I want to install something, what do I use_22:32
DocScrutinizer05usually something like no icons, no character but only squares, etc22:32
deepyovi store?22:32
deepyonly squares is what I had22:32
DocScrutinizer05use Application Manager22:32
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DocScrutinizer05aka HAM22:33
deepyI dont seem to have Application Manager or HAM22:33
DocScrutinizer05ovi store is retarded22:34
deepyfound it22:34
DocScrutinizer05thought as much22:34
deepyNot sorted alphabetically22:35
deepyit was in my blindspot22:35
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DocScrutinizer05you might appreciate apmefo, which gives you sub-menus there, so you could sort app icons like you want22:38
DocScrutinizer05group them22:39
Skryanyone have maemo sdk installed?22:39
DocScrutinizer05a few do22:39
SkryYeah, sure. Do you have?22:40
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't tell you much about it though, except its size of ~5GB22:40
deepyI can't search for things in app manager?22:40
DocScrutinizer05sure, just type22:40
deepythis is too user friendly for me22:41
SkryYeah, had it, dony usually need it, removed it, now I need few defines from sgxdefs.h22:41
DocScrutinizer05for mee too22:41
DocScrutinizer05cmdline preferred22:41
keriodeepy: you'll soon notice that HAM sucks balls22:42
keriocool people only use it to install a way to access apt-get22:42
deepyany decent IRC clients?22:42
keriodeepy: is xchat decent?22:42
deepyI find the lack of META key disturbing22:42
keriootherwise, screen22:43
kerioscreen+irssi, i meant22:43
keriobut the builtin terminal emulator is kinda lacking in the fancy things22:43
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: pretty please stop confusing new users22:43
kerioDocScrutinizer05: but he's an acquaintance of mine!22:43
deepyDocScrutinizer05: no worries, I <3 kerio22:43
kerioand he plays nethack22:43
kerioand he <3 me!22:43
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keriodeepy: anyway, HAM is some sort of frontend to dpkg, kinda like apt22:45
keriothere are some repositories you'll probably want to enable22:45
kerioor "catalogs", as they're called in HAM22:45
SkryOkay, rephrasing.. Could someone be so kind to get me the defines of EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_* from sgxdefs.h, please?22:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is extras-devel still bad to recommend?22:46
kerioextras-testing is outrageously outdated22:46
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kerioi mean, what's the last package that was promoted to testing?22:47
DocScrutinizer05extras-devel ok'ish for transient usage when there's no sonvenient version available in extras22:47
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Deepaokay, I get your point about xchat22:48
keriowhich point?22:48
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: still cmdline preferred22:48
DocScrutinizer05but wait, I might locate sgxdefs.h22:48
kerioanyway, choose "nokia sans semibold 14" black-on-white22:48
kerioas the font22:49
Deepaall of them22:49
kerioit becomes much better22:49
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: grep EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE /btr77G/scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/maemo_kernel/kernel-2.6.28/drivers/gpu/pvr/sgxdefs.h  ->null22:50
freemangordonhmm, xorg-fbdev?22:51
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: grep E /btr77G/scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/maemo_kernel/kernel-2.6.28/drivers/gpu/pvr/sgxdefs.h  -> 3 lines, unrelated22:52
freemangordonSkry: iirc you won't find that in sgxdefs.h22:53
DocScrutinizer05should I grep some dir for you?22:54
freemangordoniirc it comes with SGX SDK, the one made specially for nokia, I think I found the correct header somewhere, lemme try to find it22:54
freemangordonSkry: what do you try to rebuild, sgx xorg driver?22:54
DocScrutinizer05grep -R EURASIA /btr77G/scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/maemo_kernel/kernel-2.6.28/drivers/   -> nada22:54
Skryfreemangordon: that would be nice thanks. Yeah, fbdev-sgx.22:55
SkryDocScrutinizer05: Google was wrong, apparently it is not in maemo sdk.22:55
Skrythanks anyway22:55
* DocScrutinizer05 ^c's the grep22:56
DocScrutinizer05ooh finished22:56
DocScrutinizer05grep -R EURASIA /btr77G/scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/maemo_kernel/kernel-2.6.28/   -> nada22:56
freemangordonSkry: I managed to rebuild it once, gimme some time to find the files22:56
keriodeepy: whatcha doin?22:56
deepyjust getting used to it22:57
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DocScrutinizer05deepy: xchat without customization is unbearable22:57
Skryfreemangordon: I'm doing an experiment to see if it builds and even partially works with modules/other shit from TI sdk22:57
infobotit has been said that jrxchat is
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SkryI so much hate both Imation blah and Nokia right now :S22:58
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freemangordonSkry: I know, it ttok me a couple of weeks until I magaed to gather all of the pieces22:59
freemangordonbtw which driver you are trying to build, maemo5 or meego22:59
freemangordonaah, just a minute ;)22:59
DocScrutinizer05deepy: ^^^ cp those to ~/.xchat2/22:59
keriodeepy: you probably want to remap some or most of the shift+fn+<key> combinations23:00
Skryactually it is something i found on github which is based on meego, ubuntu stuff most likely23:00
freemangordonSkry: ti-omap3-sgx-devel-1.4.20090218.189-2.1.armv7l.rpm23:00
freemangordondo you have that one?23:00
deepyCan I control my phone from my PC?23:00
DocScrutinizer05kerio: or just do what I just wrote23:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, i meant in general23:00
Skryfreemangordon: wait a sec, at least i had it at some point23:00
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DocScrutinizer05deepy: partially23:01
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, phonecontrol is
freemangordonand iirc you'll need ti-omap3-sgx-libGLESv1-devel-1.4.20090218.189-2.1.armv7l.rpm and ti-omap3-sgx-libGLESv2-devel-1.4.20090218.189-2.1.armv7l.rpm too23:01
DocScrutinizer05also see "app" named same23:01
DocScrutinizer05which is basically a script wrapping up all that stuff on wiki page23:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: my shift+fn+home row is *+%~|[]]^` and my shift+fn+bottom row is £$€<>{}@23:02
DocScrutinizer05condolences ;-P23:02
keriono, it's the shit23:02
Skryfreemangordon: those should be in TI sdk, just trying to get nokia specific stuff required to build that one.23:02
freemangordon#define EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_ALIGN08UL23:03
freemangordon#define EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_ALIGNSHIFT0323:03
freemangordon#define EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_ALIGN18UL23:03
freemangordon#define EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_ALIGNSHIFT1323:03
freemangordon#define EURASIA_TAG_STRIDE_THRESHOLD023:03
DocScrutinizer05deepy: first of all you want ssh access to phone, prferrably via WLAN23:03
DocScrutinizer05deepy: so get ssh pkg via HAM23:03
freemangordonSkry: for some reason I have defined them in sgx_exa.c23:03
DocScrutinizer05if you're on windows, you still can use PuTTY to log in to phone23:04
freemangordoncan't remember where did I got that from, maybe I parsed the headers manually23:04
Skryfreemangordon: that's the file that needs those, guess you've been doing same stuff as I am :P23:04
freemangordonand I managed to extract those defines from somewhere, don't ask, just can't remember23:04
freemangordonare these what you need?23:05
freemangordonSkry: ^^^23:05
Skryfreemangordon: yes those are the ones, thank you. did you ever get your build to work?23:05
freemangordonSkry: no, as I was trying to build it for maemo5.23:06
freemangordon ;)23:06
deepyDocScrutinizer05: already installed SSH23:06
deepywash oping to like do X forwarding23:06
freemangordonand because of the older X it does not even compile23:06
keriodeepy: it's doable, but not for some builtin applications23:06
DocScrutinizer05deepy: won't work afaik23:06
DocScrutinizer05due to H-D23:06
freemangordon(something with suspend/resume iirc)23:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: really?23:06
kerioi thought it was mostly because of maemo-launcher23:07
kerioor maemo-invoker or whatever23:07
Skryfreemangordon: aah, ok :) We'll see if I have any luck, somehow I doubt that.23:07
DocScrutinizer05hmm, whatever23:07
DocScrutinizer05anyway X forwarding doesn't work afaik23:07
DocScrutinizer05vnc might work23:07
deepydoes it work the other way?23:07
DocScrutinizer05yep, definitely23:07
keriodeepy: the other way is more likely to work23:07
freemangordonSkry: but building maemo5 xorg-fbdev in SB works, I was playing with it when doing 720p for n90023:07
DocScrutinizer05vnc work great23:08
DocScrutinizer05dunno for X fwd23:08
freemangordonSkry: will try to find which header I got that from23:08
DocScrutinizer05some 2 years ago I could get access to my PC desktop by clicking an icon23:09
DocScrutinizer05been a tad annoying due to PC desktop's resolutions >> N90023:09
DocScrutinizer05(vnc that is)23:10
keriothe thing is, x forwarding a desktop application on the n900 will leave your eyes really straining23:10
keriobecause most normal desktop programs expect the DPI to be 96 or something23:10
vi__some really cool stuff has come out of the 2012 coding competition.23:11
vi__at the the risk of appearing to be a total spazz...23:11
freemangordonkerio: you don't know it23:12
freemangordonboy, you're lame :P23:12
freemangordonSkry: ti-omap3-sgx-devel-1.4.20090218.189-2.1.armv7l.rpm, file /usr/include/SGX/hwdefs/sgxdefs.h23:15
DocScrutinizer05deepy: sorry I used an inapprioate approach when you shown up here, didn't expect you going straight x forwarding ;-)23:17
deepyNo worries :)23:17
deepyI just spent a minute looking for the calculator23:17
deepyooh, ipython23:18
nox-you can use python for that too...23:18
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keriodeepy: standard python REPL or gtfo23:18
vi__deepy: you got xforwarding to work?23:18
Skryfreemangordon: thanks, I'll take a look at that, these undeclareds just keep on coming :)23:18
deepybut ipython has a sexy terminal I heard23:18
deepyvi__: not yet, it's on my todo list23:19
deepyit just struck me that I have nothing to X forward :D23:19
kerioxterm, maybe?23:19
freemangordonSkry: you'll need this -dev package installewd, there are lots of defines there23:19
freemangordonSkry: have in mind there are severel versions23:19
DocScrutinizer05~spank kerio23:20
* infobot bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks.23:20
keriomy buttocks aren't *that* white23:20
vi__deepy: please not a lot of maemo programs fail hard over xforwarding.23:20
vi__they try to run full screen and do other wierd stuff.23:21
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freemangordonSkry: ti-omap3-sgx-bin-1.4.20090218.189-armv7l.tar.gz is the way to go, it has both libs and headers, try to find it over the inet23:21
DocScrutinizer05and launcherized stuff won't forward at all23:22
vi__all in all, xforwarding sucks.23:22
freemangordonSkry: i'll upload it somewhere for you if you don't find it on meego servers23:22
deepykerio: no twisted by default :(23:22
keriodeepy: sudo apt-get install python-twisted23:22
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DocScrutinizer05find /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin -name '*.launch'23:23
deepyjust struck me23:23
deepyI don't know my password23:23
DocScrutinizer05so no xterm forwarding for kerio ;-P23:24
deepysilly rootsh23:24
keriorootsh is silly, indeed23:24
DocScrutinizer05no password23:24
kerioand su doesn't work23:24
keriobecause of messybox23:24
kerioset passwords for user and root, and add user to sudoers23:25
kerio(add an entry in a new file in /etc/sudoers.d/ and run update-sudoers)23:25
Skryfreemangordon: found it. damn, this looks like it's getting more and more complicated :S23:25
deepyis there any keyboard alt+tabby thing?23:25
DocScrutinizer05installing sshd should've asked you for root password23:25
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freemangordonSkry: sorry for maybe the stupid question, but what do you try to achieve?23:25
DocScrutinizer05deepy: see:23:26
deepyDocScrutinizer05: I must be suid to work properly though23:26
infobotmethinks jrtools is
deepyso no su to root in busybee for me23:26
keriodeepy: nope, use sudo23:26
DocScrutinizer05use root23:26
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DocScrutinizer05root = su - ; sudo gainroot = su23:27
DocScrutinizer05"root" is a literal command23:27
DocScrutinizer05like is "sudo gainroot"23:27
DocScrutinizer05both come with rootsh pkg23:28
DocScrutinizer05neither will usually ask for any password23:28
DocScrutinizer05unless you have a look at ~jrtools and fix that crap23:29
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I have a brillinat idea: I'll simply chmod -x apt-worker, and get me a lil scriptie that makes it temporarily +x after asking for root pw23:30
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DocScrutinizer05fixed, next please!23:31
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deepykerio: Nokia-N900:~# apt-cache search python|grep twisted23:36
deepythere's no python-twisted!23:37
keriothat's what you deserve for not being as bleeding-edgy as me23:37
deepyOh I have plenty of bleeding edges23:37
deepyTell me good Sir. What edge do I need to introduce the knife to?23:38
keriothe "catalogs" edge in HAM23:38
kerioor /etc/apt/sources.list23:38
keriobut if i tell you more, DocScrutinizer05 will yell at me23:38
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kerioanyway, before doing anything apart from the really basic system stuff, you should install CSSU23:40
kerioand before installing CSSU, you should install backupmenu!23:42
keriodeepy: do you have a uSD?23:42
deepya 32GB one on the inside of the phone23:42
deepyor so I think23:43
keriowhat does "on the inside of the phone" mean?23:43
deepyIt's relevant since I cba to flip the phone and remove the cover :P23:43
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keriooh, btw23:44
keriothe backcover matters a lot23:44
kerioremoving the backcover halts any communication to and from the uSD23:44
deepyThis reminds me of an incident with my previous phone23:45
deepytouched the SD card23:47
deepygot a shock23:47
deepyAlso, I can't find backupmenu with app manager or apt-cache23:48
infobotmethinks backupmenu is
DocScrutinizer05a goodie for you:
DocScrutinizer05obviously all in -devel23:50
DocScrutinizer05deepy: you really might want to have a glance at23:50
infobotjrtools is, like,
keriodeepy: you really might want to enable extras-devel23:51
deepyextra-devel to
DocScrutinizer05or just read extra-fine jrtools23:51
DocScrutinizer05FFS read that page, click that install file23:52
kerio fremantle free non-free23:52
DocScrutinizer05I've put it there for your convenience23:52
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is it the same as the official .install?23:52
DocScrutinizer05which official .install?23:53
DocScrutinizer05it just installs 3 repos23:53
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deepyUsing i2c-tools and especially i2cset may cause serious permanent HARDWARE damage to the device, use it with caution and ONLY if you know what you're doing.23:59
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