IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-09-04

DocScrutinizer05	vi__: they already have invented wrist-phone, you listen to it by sticking finger in your ear, the sound gets transported by vibration of your hand	00:03
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm not so much interested in phone though. I had palm pilot and one of the things I missed from it was it enabling me to get rid of my phone. That's how phone is related to handheld computing for me, and N900 is not a phone	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	N9 clearly is a phone, and hardly anything beyond	00:08
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: a phone with better specs than the n900 though :(	00:12
kerio	do you guys actually make a lot of phone calls with the n900?	00:12
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DocScrutinizer05	I basically make all my calls with the N900	00:15
Skry	me too	00:19
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jaska	ditto	00:21
kerio	yeah, me too	00:21
kerio	but i don't make a lot of phone calls at all	00:21
SpeedEvil	I just connected my n900 as my main landline	00:23
SpeedEvil	sip/WiFi	00:23
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niouby	hello, i don't know why but when i emit a call with the phone app it switches to the running apps list, ie backgrounding the phone app, any idea ?	00:29
niouby	this focus loosing prohibits the proximity detection that enables/disables the loudspeaker, so using the babyphone app my baby can ear the call ringing ...	00:31
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chem\|st	SpeedEvil: 2.8y late	00:32
chem\|st	:)	00:32
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: some service providers do sip for telephony anyways and some are stupid enough to have the password for it in clear text in modem's logfiles...	00:33
SpeedEvil	my ISP offers free sip (well, no extra sub), and works out cheaper than my phone provider	00:34
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rzr	hi any n810 users arround ?	01:32
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DocScrutinizer05	hi SpeedEvil! :-)	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	rzr: some	01:46
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rzr	DocScrutinizer05: i was thinking about using it a gps unit but navit is a bit harsh	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	well, the N810 GPS never been paricularly good, at least in my experience	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	A-GPS never made it from a beta to a proper system upgrade package afaik	01:55
rzr	i was happy using wayfinder	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	neither I know wayfinder, nor navit	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	afk for a beer	01:58
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merlin1991	so far the only maemo device where the gps works halfway properly without an internet connection is sadly the n9(50) :/	02:09
merlin1991	at least in my experience	02:09
rzr	r u using it along a car charger ?	02:10
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merlin1991	with and without	02:12
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rzr	mine complain there is not enough power	02:27
rzr	it is said to deliver 1.2A	02:27
rzr	bu I checked it is actually 0.8	02:27
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DocScrutinizer05	rzr: 0.8A should still be enough to not moan about "insufficient power"	03:45
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DocScrutinizer05	unless the 'charger' is missing D+/- short which will cause sane obedient Nokia devices to reduce charge current to 100mA	03:46
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SpeedEvil	or too long wire	03:47
SpeedEvil	or thin	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, hardly	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	I think down to 3.9V it won't complain	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	means 1.1V have to get lost on thin wire	03:47
SpeedEvil	I've seen very bad cables	03:48
nox-	why 100mA and not 500?	03:48
SpeedEvil	I should measure them	03:48
DocScrutinizer05	100 is "free for everybody"	03:48
nox-	mh	03:48
DocScrutinizer05	500 is max usb ENUM may negotiate	03:48
nox-	and even if it got that it will only charge with 100?	03:49
DocScrutinizer05	D+/- short extends that to <virtually unlimited>	03:49
DocScrutinizer05	nox-: chargers have no CPU to negotiate anything via ENUM	03:49
nox-	:/	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	so any PC is better for charhing than a wallcharger missing D+/- short	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	charging*	03:50
nox-	ah so it works with 500 on a pc?	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	yes	03:51
nox-	ah ok	03:51
nox-	then it makes sense	03:51
nox-	:)	03:51
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rzr	D+/- of the usb socket ?	04:02
rzr	its a diy charger i'll double check thx for the tip	04:02
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DocScrutinizer05	rZr: yes, usb. green and white in cable	04:07
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DocScrutinizer05	middle two contacts on 4-pin USB	04:07
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DocScrutinizer05	(you may get away with shorting them by tin-foil. But beware: I ruined a plug that way)	04:08
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DocScrutinizer05	or you use ShadowJK's charge21.sh script which gives no flying fart about D+/- short	04:09
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DocScrutinizer05	(at least according to recent investigation results. if it doesn't work, you may want to adapt the 0x80 or 0x10 value of status this script checks for)	04:11
DocScrutinizer05	see chanlog, last 3 or so days	04:11
DocScrutinizer05	search for charge21	04:11
* DocScrutinizer05 just ponders to 'sell' smart charger script (via OVI, whatever), that allows user to set max USB current, monitors USB voltage, tries auto-adjust, and delivers proper meaningful logs. And of course works with any kind of charger, no matter if D+/- short or not		04:17
DocScrutinizer05	do you think I could ask for $1.59 for that?	04:17
DocScrutinizer05	if you think so, I might ship that fancy in 3 days	04:20
r00t\|home	no getting rich with n900 apps, not enough lusers	04:36
DocScrutinizer05	I'm happy with being able to buy enough beer and bagles	04:41
DocScrutinizer05	but actually #maemo ruins my professional carreer since it eats too much time and brainpower	04:42
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DocScrutinizer05	every 2nd morinig I'm late at work since something here (or #maemo-ssu) needs my attention	04:43
DocScrutinizer05	estel didn't help X-P	04:44
r00t\|home	no good...	04:44
DocScrutinizer05	since I'm sure the 250 users of #maemo won't send me 4 EUR / monzh for chanop and answering whatever, I'm hoping for jolla	04:47
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DocScrutinizer05	or for OVI and some users willing to pay for an universal charger app	04:49
DocScrutinizer05	but not even receiving enough to not pay for maemo.cloud-7.de server, is indeed a bit annoying	05:00
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DocScrutinizer05	that's a friggin 20EUR/month I pay to keep community alive and provide whatever you find on that server	05:01
DocScrutinizer05	ok, I'm sure nobody else makes a living with maemo support, so I probaly just should STFU and be happy with the interest this incredible piece of hw and OS still is seeing. 250 chan users isn't bad at all	05:04
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edheldil	DocScrutinizer05: regarding theloss of phone functions: I have tried running 'pnatd' during such a loss and it does not output anything anymore - when ok, it was able to respond to AT or AT+CFUN?. So - does it mean it's a rapuyama problem?	10:37
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Macer	yours died like mine huh?	10:38
Macer	i had the same problem with my n900	10:38
Macer	although i don't use it as a phone on the cell network anymore.. but it did the same	10:38
* Macer sheds a tear		10:38
ZogG_laptop	at least it works	10:39
Macer	i suppose	10:41
Macer	but to use it outside wifi range i have to tether it to my lumia 900 heh	10:41
Macer	that's just redundant	10:41
Macer	i look like a guy with a mistress phone	10:41
ZogG_laptop	Macer, that's why it died	10:41
Macer	or a dope dealer	10:41
Macer	?	10:41
ZogG_laptop	it got AIDS from Lumia hooker	10:41
Macer	it started pre lumia ;)	10:42
ZogG_laptop	pre lumia?	10:42
Macer	so it really got aids from nokia :-P	10:42
ZogG_laptop	i got confused	10:42
Macer	my other one did too	10:42
Macer	the penis fell off :-P	10:42
ZogG_laptop	:(	10:42
Macer	n900 is not known for its build quality as far as its modem dying and the usb ports falling off	10:43
Macer	lumia 900 is just an n9 with wp on it isn't it?	10:43
Macer	i was being scolded here because i said the lumia isn't that bad at all :)	10:44
* Macer hides		10:44
Vibe	it's bad, cos wp isn't not open source..	10:45
Vibe	-not	10:45
Gh0sty	no its not	10:45
Gh0sty	it uses another Soc and so on	10:45
Gh0sty	nokia is loosing money over it in stead of gaining if they would have sold the n9	10:46
Macer	are they?	10:46
Macer	well.. i guess that's true considering att pretty much paid me to buy it	10:46
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Macer	they gave me $200 for a $99 phone	10:46
Macer	i guess they make it up with their overpriced service but still :)	10:47
Macer	but honestly... wp7 is not bad at all	10:48
Macer	and i'm willing to bet the sdk for it and win8 is probably light years ahead of the garbage that was released for maemo	10:49
Macer	albiet the OS is closed but at least the dev tools are all there and updated	10:49
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ZogG_laptop	did you see new lumia preview? they make microsd as feature now :P	10:50
Macer	meh. apple has done without an sd forever and they're doing fine	10:52
Macer	they just charge you $100 for an extra 8G and 16G :)	10:52
Macer	genius	10:52
Macer	either way... if the new lumia has win8 i might get it... although i'd love to have a win8 phone with a qwerty	10:53
Macer	if nokia makes one with a qwerty i'm sold :)	10:53
Macer	the ms win8 tablet also looks amazing .. i think it's the mini ultra thin smart cover keyboard	10:53
Macer	and kickstand	10:53
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ZogG_laptop	Macer, yeah keyboard for what? kbd is nie for terminal and editors, not for sms :P for sms virual keyboard is just fine	10:56
Macer	i'd still rather have a qwerty for sms ;)	10:57
Macer	the vkb takes up too much screen real estate	10:57
ZogG_laptop	it's all about UI	10:57
Macer	using ssh with the vkb is a pain as well	10:57
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Macer	ZogG_laptop: i dunno about that. you need the vkb to be at least a decent size for fingers	10:58
Macer	and a phone screen is usually small enough as it is	10:58
ZogG_laptop	and i saw how people use swype... as well i liked bb10 predictable keyboard :P	10:58
ZogG_laptop	Macer, it's okay for me, i use n9 as phone on daily bases and it's good enuf for twitter/sms/wazapp :P	10:59
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Macer	lol. so is the lumia 900	11:01
Macer	the vkb orks ok for those things i suppose	11:01
Macer	but the qwerty would be great for ssh	11:01
Macer	also. i'm hoping win8 on mobile devices doesn't do the same windows mobile murdering of background apps	11:01
Macer	which made its way to wp7	11:01
Macer	it runs like an iphone where nothing is allowed to keep running in the background	11:01
Macer	probably the one major advantage the n9 has	11:01
ZogG_laptop	Macer, do you have bsod screen ?	11:03
edheldil	Macer: have your modem died at once and for all? My phone works after a reboot, but all of a sudden (usually while I carry in my pocket) it started to disconnect the SIM and report "communication problem"	11:03
edheldil	Macer: I would like if I (user) could configure which apps get hibernated when minimized and which do not. THAT would be the best, IMO	11:05
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Macer	edheldil: yes	11:07
Macer	same problem	11:07
Macer	edheldil: i honestly don't have an n9 and have never used a meego device so i couldn't say	11:08
Macer	i just know that the n9 works similar to maemo in how it manages background vs battery life	11:08
Macer	plus meego has xterm :)	11:08
Macer	win	11:08
edheldil	same = works after a reboot for a while?	11:09
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Macer	not too long	11:11
Macer	usually stops once the modem starts being accessed	11:11
Macer	it isn't a pin problem. i kindly bent them upwards. the piece of paper wedged behind the battery worked for a bit	11:11
Macer	but then it finally gave out altogether	11:11
Macer	known problem tho. just like the flimsy usb ports	11:12
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derpmode	where does hdrcapture store its pictures?	11:12
edheldil	sigh ...	11:12
derpmode	fuck, I hope I didn't lose that shot	11:13
derpmode	Maybe I'm just not hardcore enough anymore to deal with an 'opensource' phone everyday	11:13
kerio	Macer: which hw rev is this?	11:13
Macer	hm. not sure. i don't have it on me now	11:13
Macer	it was a made in finland version tho if that helps	11:15
derpmode	don't they all say that?	11:16
kerio	it really doesn't	11:16
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Macer	derpmode: no. most are made in korea	11:16
derpmode	"Designed in finland"?	11:16
Macer	kerio: well i'll be home in about 3 or so hours. i'll let you know if it's around	11:16
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: you can have my unconditional love to help you may for maemo.cloud-7.de!	11:16
Macer	derpmode: no. made in ;)	11:16
derpmode	I have 3 that says "designed in finland"	11:16
Macer	on the inside sticker	11:16
kerio	s/may/pay/	11:16
infobot	kerio meant: DocScrutinizer05: you can have my unconditional love to help you pay for maemo.cloud-7.de!	11:16
Macer	they all say "designed in"	11:17
derpmode	so any ideas where hdrcapture stores its pictures?	11:17
kerio	derpmode: rtfm	11:17
Macer	cloud-7.de ?	11:17
kerio	>:D	11:17
derpmode	which manual?	11:17
kerio	hdrcapture's	11:18
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derpmode	looking for it..	11:19
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derpmode	http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1631&faq=36 kerio any idea where to find it?	11:20
Macer	isn't there like a setting to set where it stores?	11:21
derpmode	nope	11:22
derpmode	it's shit software like most n900 apps	11:22
derpmode	I just want to find the location of my beloved photo	11:22
kerio	somewhere in MyDocs probably	11:24
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derpmode	looked	11:24
kerio	hdrcapture is basically a less flexible fcam with hdr	11:24
derpmode	i didn't know about fcam at the time	11:24
kerio	same dudes	11:25
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kerio	hdrcapture and lowlight are specialized versions of fcamera that do weirder shit	11:25
edheldil	derpmode: might be also your expansion card	11:27
derpmode	edheldil: looked. Any idea how to find it?	11:27
derpmode	I hope it isn't somewhere in /	11:27
derpmode	or even worse, didn't get stored	11:28
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edheldil	no, I do not use it, but I vaguely remember finding lowlight's pics on the extension card (though ... half of my pictures is there as well, without apparent rhyme or reason).	11:32
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edheldil	Do not forget to switch on 'view hidden files'	11:32
derpmode	yeaha, what a mess. hidded files is on	11:34
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noch	I use this source on Fremantle http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API#Complete_example	11:34
noch	and it exits in one or two seconds	11:34
noch	it holds a second during g_main_loop_run(loop);	11:35
noch	and then does g_object_unref and exits	11:35
noch	may it be that I have some strange settings on a device?	11:35
noch	however gpsrecorder and fourcircle work well	11:35
noch	it tries to turn GPS on	11:36
noch	the satellite appears and starts to blink	11:36
noch	and then disappears, and the program exits	11:36
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kerio	derpmode: huh... DCIM/HDR*	11:52
kerio	not sure about lowlight, but hdrcapture saves there	11:55
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jacekowski	http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/02/heres-samsung-flew-bloggers-halfway-around-world-threatened-leave/	11:58
jacekowski	nokia saves tge day	11:58
jacekowski	the*	11:58
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derpmode	kerio: fuck, folder doesn't exist. I guess that means those pictures didn't get saved!	12:10
kerio	...what?	12:11
kerio	DCIM exists	12:11
kerio	it's called "camera" or something, in the file browser	12:11
kerio	hell, you could just open the app	12:11
derpmode	open up the app and...?	12:12
derpmode	DCIM exists, subfolder HDR doesn't	12:12
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kerio	i mean, the photo app	12:12
kerio	and no, the photos are called HDRsomething	12:12
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derpmode	don't see em'	12:20
derpmode	yep, definitely not in there kerio	12:23
kerio	\_o_/	12:23
derpmode	I guess this is what I get for not having an iPhone like everyone else	12:23
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derpmode	whose around?	12:43
* rZr _o/		12:44
derpmode	rZr: if you got a fresh n900 how would you set it up?	12:44
derpmode	1) reflash	12:44
derpmode	then...?	12:44
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rZr	then install stuff ?	12:47
derpmode	no repartition or anything?	12:47
derpmode	no custom stuff I wanna do first?	12:47
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noch	anybody knows the answer to the liblocation question above?	12:55
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DocScrutinizer05	derpmode:	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	see	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	14:00
infobot	jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	might have some minor (advanced) suggestions regarding setup.	14:01
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DocScrutinizer05	obvious suggestions are: get backupmenu, consider immediate switching to cssu-stable	14:02
derpmode	think I have that	14:02
DocScrutinizer05	~bm	14:03
infobot	i guess backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975	14:03
derpmode	any idea how ot find the pictures HDR Capture supposedly saved?	14:03
kerio	derpmode: some people repartition the emmc to have more space for home/opt and less for mydocs	14:03
DocScrutinizer05	~cssu	14:03
infobot	from memory, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU	14:03
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, never used HDR	14:03
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DocScrutinizer05	shouldn't there be some selector to pick location where to store pictures? at least toggle between uSD and MyDocs? like in any decent photo app	14:04
derpmode	I guess it didn't store my photos!	14:04
derpmode	There isn't one. I checked all the obvious locations manually	14:05
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: hdrcapture is just a tiny proof-of-concept to showcase the fcam API	14:05
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	14:05
kerio	it does make some cute pictures, though	14:05
kerio	derpmode: did you wait for the processing?	14:05
DocScrutinizer05	so no clue about FQN to any such picture?	14:06
kerio	DCIM/HDRsomething	14:06
kerio	.jpg	14:06
DocScrutinizer05	that's no Full Qualified Name	14:06
derpmode	kerio: yeah, and then I pushed back. And in the Help it says pushing back "saves" them	14:07
kerio	/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/HDR_*.jpg	14:07
DocScrutinizer05	something like /home/user/MyDocs/.images/HDR_2012_09_02_1428.foo is	14:07
DocScrutinizer05	yeah :-)	14:07
kerio	no, it uses DCIM	14:07
kerio	i just checked	14:07
derpmode	I will check one last time!	14:07
derpmode	but really, I don't see them in there	14:08
kerio	lowlight uses .images	14:08
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DocScrutinizer05	derpmode: oooh, and by all means get cpu load applet, to have an idea when something's going on on your device	14:09
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kerio	oh, and lowlight appears to use an ungodly amount of ram	14:12
kerio	like, 87mb	14:12
kerio	so don't use it	14:12
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ShadowJK	well it would use lots	14:22
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kerio	to process one image?	14:23
kerio	oh hell no	14:23
ShadowJK	since it takes two pictures and tries to build shape from one and colour from other or similar :)	14:24
M4rtinK	looks like the autobuilder is down - anyone knows whats wrong ?	14:24
M4rtinK	X-Fade: ping	14:24
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edheldil	DocScrutinizer05: does pnatd displaying nothing on AT command mean that it's rapuyama at fault, or can it still be a bad SIM contact?	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	no, that's clearly rapuyama or the OMAP serial hw interface being down then	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	NB there's a way for OMAP to power down rapuyama afaik	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	so modem being non-responsive doesn't mean is must be broken	14:49
DocScrutinizer05	e.g. in airplane mode I might figure it wouldn't be powered (haven't checked that though)	14:49
DocScrutinizer05	edheldil: anyway a broken sim contact shouldn't affect AT interface	14:50
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DocScrutinizer05	no, even in offline mode modem/pnatd answers AT with OK	14:53
edheldil	thank you. Strange that it appears when the phone is in pocket - temperature or mechanical stress related, perhaps	14:53
DocScrutinizer05	probably	14:53
edheldil	oh well ... time to get a new second hand one :(	14:54
DocScrutinizer05	checking syslog should show anything modem related when something fails (there are modem reboots known when modem locks up)	14:54
DocScrutinizer05	there's a cmt watchdog afaik, that will try to reboot the modem when it doesn't behave. This should show up in syslog	14:55
DocScrutinizer05	try "*#06#" in dialer!	14:56
edheldil	I will look the next time it happens. One or twice pnatd wrote something about endpoint, but I haven't copied down the message	14:56
DocScrutinizer05	should show your IMEI. If it doesn't I'd say you got a serious hw problem. If it does I couldn't promise your modem is ok though	14:56
edheldil	dialer is that app for dialing *# codes, right?	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	I assume you did a full reflash already, to rule out any sw related obscure problems	14:58
DocScrutinizer05	dialer is that app where you dial numbers and call people	14:58
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DocScrutinizer05	;-)	14:59
edheldil	ah :). No, not reflash YET :/	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	for user pnatd trows error "pipe endpoint allocation: operation not permitted"	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	you need root for onatd	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	pnatd even	15:00
edheldil	well, could have been a case of missing root privs during a previous invocation	15:00
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kerio	edheldil: what's your hw rev?	15:12
kerio	it's written in /proc/component_version	15:12
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DocScrutinizer05	cat /proc/component_version\|grep hw-build	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	meh, now i'm doing it as well :-S	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	grep hw-build /proc/component_version	15:23
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edheldil	kerio: 2204	15:36
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edheldil	typical?	15:36
edheldil	< /proc/component_version grep hw-build :)	15:38
kerio	idk	15:39
kerio	but it's different than mine	15:39
kerio	so i'm happy about that c:	15:39
edheldil	heh	15:41
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fredddiiii	Is it possible to use Google Docs with my CSSU stable up-to-date Maemo device to synchronise documents	16:18
fredddiiii	Like how for example I am syncing my calendar and contacts list with Google Sync?	16:18
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Arkenoi	No	16:24
Arkenoi	(and if you successfully sync contacts you are extremely lucky)	16:24
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* Sicelo about to try Nemo ;)		16:27
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fredddiiii	Being able to use Exchange with Google Sync requires you to grab liburl3 from extras-devel. I am prepared to do this, but is this a clean way? And will libcurl3 properly keep updating (eventually)?	16:51
freemangordon	fredddiiii: yep, next CSSU-testing will contain updated libcurl3	16:51
fredddiiii	So eventually that libcurl3 will make it into stable?	16:51
fredddiiii	And the grabbed version will update?	16:52
fredddiiii	Properly?	16:52
fredddiiii	Or will dependencies break or something?	16:52
freemangordon	I hope it will out by the end of the week	16:52
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freemangordon	don't see a reason why not	16:52
fredddiiii	Just trying to make sure.	16:52
fredddiiii	So I will not end up with out-dated, dependency broken possible security risk prone packages.	16:52
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fredddiiii	Because I try to fix something. =(	16:52
fredddiiii	freemangordon, any ETA on when that updated libcurl3 might make it into stable?	16:53
freemangordon	fredddiiii: hard to say, maybe in a month after being in -testing, that is the usual testing period	16:53
fredddiiii	I think I will grab it from extras-devel then, if there is not any possible risk of grabbing it from that repository, and disabling that repository again afterwards.	16:54
freemangordon	fredddiiii: as long a you don't apt-get upgrade you should be safe :D	16:57
fredddiiii	Ok.	16:57
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Sicelo	i can report that i find new Nemo ok on my N900. just a tad slow, but that's likely because i have a shite Class 4 sd card	17:00
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kerio	Sicelo: class means jack shit	17:24
kerio	what matters, for that kind of purpose, is random read/write	17:25
kerio	not sequential	17:25
Sicelo	well, everything is donkey slow, and i don't think it's Nemo	17:25
kerio	oh absolutely	17:27
kerio	but the class of your uSD is not the problem	17:27
kerio	its non-being-a-Sandiskness could be	17:27
jon_y	is sandisk special?	17:28
kerio	sandisk is the shit	17:29
kerio	as opposed to... huh, pretty much every other manufacturer	17:29
kerio	which is just shit	17:29
jon_y	I use that for my GPS, because it is teh $6	17:29
jon_y	well, $5 something	17:30
jon_y	4GB	17:30
jon_y	I will get other brands for my phone from now on	17:30
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kerio	mind you	17:31
kerio	a sandisk class 4 is really good for random read/writes	17:32
kerio	for other uses, you probably want a different card	17:32
Sicelo	well, my nemo has issues with dtmf tones and such :P	17:33
jon_y	not sure if GPS is random R/W	17:33
kerio	eh, could actually be	17:34
kerio	there's not much sequential data in maps, i suppose	17:34
kerio	i mean, you'd have to be lucky to hit that :)	17:35
kerio	but then again, it probably doesn't matter	17:35
kerio	sequential writes matter a lot for digital cameras	17:38
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DocScrutinizer05	oooh recaller you bastard! :-(	17:57
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DocScrutinizer05	when this shitty thing tells hildon to show a notifier "recaller: recording since nn:nn:nn" every 30s, and then FORGETS TO REVOKE this instruction :-(((	17:59
kerio	i stopped using recaller when i noticed that the automatic recording didn't always stop	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	it just pretends, often	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	actually recaller stopped recording, 16h ago	18:02
kerio	meh, it's not like it was exactly legal anyway	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	hmm?	18:03
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	18:03
DocScrutinizer05	you're not recording your calls, are you? X-P	18:03
kerio	oh no, it is	18:03
kerio	neat	18:03
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kerio	when you're talking to someone on the phone, you have to accept the risk that the other one is recording the conversation	18:04
kerio	it makes sense, really	18:04
DocScrutinizer05	recaller completely freaks out when destination for audio files is not writable for any reason (full, nonexistent, whatever)	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	however yesterday (16h ago) I recoded via microphone, manually. And I stopped recording manually	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	and obviously since then it pesters me with this notification	18:06
kerio	lol	18:06
kerio	killall -9 recaller	18:06
kerio	besides, it does weird shit with audio routes anyway	18:07
Woody14619	I like having recaller running. Sometimes I'll make an appointment, record it, but miss something important (like where it's at). Being able to re-play a conversation is nice.	18:08
DocScrutinizer05	nope, it doesn't record	18:08
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DocScrutinizer05	I found out what happened (I think)	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	4096M 04. Sep 05:36 Rec_20120904_021320-053628.wav	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	I forgot to stop it correctly	18:09
kerio	hahaha	18:09
kerio	neat	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	eventually it hit 4GB barrier and stopped recording but failed to stop the notifier	18:09
Woody14619	And FYI: recording conversations and it's legality is highly based on local laws. Even then, the legality is usually more a question of not if it's "legal", but if said recording can be used in legal procedings. :)	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	18:10
DocScrutinizer05	again, what I stated above: recaller completely freaks out when destination for audio files is not writable for any reason (full, nonexistent, whatever)	18:11
DocScrutinizer05	it's consistently missing to reset the notifier when stopping recording due to write error on file	18:11
Woody14619	Yeah.. I turned that off ages ago. Don't need notifications anyway.	18:12
Woody14619	Though it can be annoying on the off times when it forgets to stop recording when you hang up. ;)	18:12
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vi_	0/	18:14
vi_	o/	18:14
vi_	^is that a picture of a man waving?	18:14
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: also, why are you using wav and not aac?	18:14
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DocScrutinizer05	mmpf	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	again, what I stated above: recaller completely freaks out when destination for audio files is not writable for any reason (full, nonexistent, whatever)	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	it's consistently missing to reset the notifier when stopping recording due to write error on file	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	and I got NFC how to convince hildon-notification-daemon to stop that shit now	18:15
Woody14619	Interesting cssu logs btw. Lol. 3 kicks by 2 people in under an hour? LOL. Not undeserved... But then...	18:15
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: killall recaller	18:15
Woody14619	killall recaller should do it Doc.	18:15
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DocScrutinizer05	indeed	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	?	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	I don't think so	18:16
DocScrutinizer05	there's not even a process recaller	18:16
Woody14619	Is it all dbus-script based now?	18:16
merlin1991	Woody14619: 3 kicks?	18:16
merlin1991	I only remember 1	18:16
Woody14619	Doc booted him twice before you arrived.	18:17
merlin1991	oh :D	18:17
vi_	Woody14619: who?	18:17
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: recaller is a python script.	18:17
Woody14619	vi_: Who's the only person to merrit being booted here in the past 3 years?	18:17
vi_	-_-	18:18
kerio	vi_: who lives in a pineapple under the sea?	18:18
Woody14619	vi_: That's like asking "Who's that fat man, in the red outfit, at the mall in December?"	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	maybe I'm just too numb	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	no python process on my device?	18:20
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: ps ax \| grep py	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	-> grep py	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	IOW nuttin	18:21
vi_	I just do not understand why he behaves in such an antagonising fashion.	18:21
Woody14619	It's a desktop plugin, so it may be hiding.	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~# ps aux\|grep pyth	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	root 17339 0.0 0.3 4108 752 pts/0 S+ 17:19 0:00 grep pyth	18:21
vi_	It goes against 10000 years of human evolution.	18:21
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: remove it from the home screen	18:21
Woody14619	vi_: becuse he has no other method of operation.	18:21
Woody14619	doc: try doing a kill/reset of hildon-desktop.	18:22
kerio	hildon-home you mean	18:22
DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619: good point	18:22
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I am afraid...	18:22
Woody14619	well, it lives in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/recaller.py	18:22
vi_	you are going to have to lose your uptime...	18:23
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: yeah	18:23
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Woody14619	it also has a sevice file in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.tomch.recaller.service	18:23
Woody14619	Though I susspect that wold be more for catching call start/stop notices.	18:24
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks		18:24
DocScrutinizer05	1494 ? S<s 0:02 /usr/bin/hildon-sv-notification-daemon	18:25
kerio	don't do it man	18:25
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kerio	DON'T DO IT	18:25
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Woody14619	Frankly, said kicked person has been taking to spreading lies as truth lately. (Like Council is disbanding itself and/or elevating itself to be a Board, with not community input, etc).	18:27
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DocScrutinizer05	the fsck! killall hildon-desktop; killall hildon-home ## now recaller icon vanished from my homescreen	18:28
kerio	that's good!	18:28
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm not sure that's good	18:29
Woody14619	Not the first or last time he'll repeatedly "misunderstand" things to meet his own flat-earth view of the world.	18:29
DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619: :nod:	18:29
Woody14619	doc: Had the same issue once with it... just re-add the widget.	18:29
kerio	Woody14619: it's not flat-earth, we're beyond flat earth	18:29
kerio	it's time cube	18:29
DocScrutinizer05	I'll do something rogue first: reboot	18:29
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: DON'T YOU DARE	18:30
kerio	>:C	18:30
Woody14619	I suspect it means that hildon-* noticed it was hosed and didn't re-load it this time.	18:30
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer05: you do not kill'em in the first place!	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	18:30
kerio	seriously though, don't reboot :(	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	why?	18:30
kerio	you can't lose your uptime!	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	meh, this one has a pretty shitty uptime right now	18:31
kerio	ah	18:31
kerio	...why didn't you reboot earlier then?	18:31
Woody14619	uptime is for naught if it's up and not doing what you want.	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	17:31 4 Tage 5:18 an, 0 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0,19, 0,42, 0,36	18:31
kerio	Woody14619: uptime is for uptime challenges	18:31
Woody14619	uptime, for the sake of up-time is somewhat silly in my book.	18:32
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer05: and something like hildon-desktop/xxx.py will not get a home on my device	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	18:32
kerio	Woody14619: but doc has a n900 with like 180 days of uptime!	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	I can see your rationale	18:32
vi_	I once swapped a PCI card on a live debian system just to keep my uptime.	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	t900:~# uptime	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	17:43:32 up 157 days, 18:39, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	18:33
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: do you use it?	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	no sim	18:33
kerio	or is it just sitting there, collecting dust and time?	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	it's my reference and devel-device	18:33
Woody14619	I see uptime as a stability thing. Before I reboot a device (non-windows) I generally look at it's uptime to see how long it was up. It mean's it's gone that long without me needing to nurse it.	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	see debate about camera-ui in other chan	18:34
kerio	which PR is it?	18:34
DocScrutinizer05	err, 1.3?	18:34
kerio	1.3.1 i hope :)	18:34
Woody14619	Devel devices, and things with regular/needed/wanted updates are different, IMHO. ;)	18:34
DocScrutinizer05	prolly not	18:34
chem\|st	vi_: do that with a windows server^^	18:35
Woody14619	Sigh... and now I have to go read a ton of mail. Why do people work days I have off? Any why do they always seem to need me only on those days?	18:36
kerio	hm, does MfE work fine with google contacts if you upgrade libcurl?	18:37
vi_	mfe works for no man.	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	wow, the recaller icon got permanently nuked off my screen	18:38
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: Just re-add the widget ffs.	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	yes, ffs	18:38
vi_	It will appear in EXACTLY the same spot as before.	18:38
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* DocScrutinizer05 just wonders what's going on there		18:38
vi_	If you kill hildon-home, sometimes all your widgets will disappear.	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	but why	18:39
vi_	Just add them 1 at a time, they will go to their appropriate place.	18:39
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I do not know.	18:39
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: The gconf info referring to the widget screen+x+y location is still there.	18:39
DocScrutinizer05	weird shit	18:39
DocScrutinizer05	some self-healing facility in HD?	18:40
vi_	It is like a small part of gconf/hildon config gets reset to defaults.	18:40
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: yes 'self healing' or 'shit coding' as scientists are now calling it.	18:40
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, re-added and dropped into place like you said	18:42
DocScrutinizer05	now nuking that 4GB .wav shit	18:43
kerio	hey, MfE actually works	18:43
kerio	neat	18:43
kerio	hm, maybe not	18:44
ShadowJK	it's probably part of some "widget is crashing h-d: disabled widgets" logic	18:45
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DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: obviously	18:47
Woody14619	My question is, how have you gone this long without knowing that? :)	18:47
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kerio	haha	18:47
vi_	Woody14619: because he never reboots, duh.	18:47
kerio	Woody14619: because <DocScrutinizer05> 17:43:32 up 157 days, 18:39, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	18:48
Woody14619	I figured that out in the first month of owning my N900, because the PR1.0 facebook widget (and notifier, and the e-mail widget, all from Nokia) would crash the desktop and wind up in that state. ;)	18:48
kerio	hehehe	18:48
kerio	anyway, MfE still doesn't work, sadly :c	18:48
kerio	which means that i have to keep my computer working	18:48
Woody14619	I even filed a bug on it! ;)	18:48
DocScrutinizer05	well, maybe I knew about it, but forgot since I never ran into it last 18 months or so	18:49
Woody14619	In what way does MfE not work? (On N9 or N900?)	18:49
Woody14619	doc: true. :)	18:49
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Woody14619	kerio: It works on my N900, but then we have a rather simple setup here.	18:49
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kerio	what do you use it for?	18:50
kerio	also, i specifically meant wrt google sync	18:50
Woody14619	Ah... I heard Google turned that off on their side. (eg, specifically broke it to not work). I talk to a real Exchange 2008 server our IT group here at work insists we all use.	18:51
vi_	mfe barely works with itself.	18:52
freemangordon	we have a problem with mfe and it is called libcurl3	18:53
vi_	I have a problem with mfe in that MSFT can suck my nuts.	18:54
ShadowJK	kerio; is this about needing to upgrade libcurl from -devel?	18:55
ShadowJK	i vaguely recall someone doing that to get mfe-google working	18:55
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lovers	hi	19:13
lovers	yo yo	19:13
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tadzik	hello	19:25
tadzik	not really maemo related, but anyone experienced with n900 fixing/disassembling? My flex cable seems to be in an imperfect condition, to say at least: http://i.imgur.com/8xw67.jpg	19:26
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: EE poke	19:32
DocScrutinizer05	hm?	19:32
kerio	tadzik's problem	19:32
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, hard to really tell from that picture	19:33
DocScrutinizer05	if FPC is actually broken or messed up, you need complete swap	19:34
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tadzik	FPC == flex cable?	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	yep	19:34
tadzik	I dismantled the thing because the screen didn't work most of the time when I used the slider	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	flexible printed circuit, flex plastic cable, flex plastic connector, whaever	19:34
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tadzik	it took a few seconds of sliding/unsliding to make it show up	19:34
tadzik	I see	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	it's not only the "cable" but actually the complete "mainboard" of screen half	19:35
tadzik	uh	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	with front-cam, ALS, earpiece, whatnot else	19:35
vi_	test EAX,EAX compares registers EAX with EAX?	19:36
vi_	WTF?	19:36
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/flex-ribbon/nokia/n900.html	19:37
DocScrutinizer05	HTH	19:38
fizzie	vi_: Common way to set flags (usually the zero flag) according to what's in eax, at least. As in, "call foo; test eax, eax; jz bar" for "if (foo() == 0) goto bar;"	19:38
DocScrutinizer05	no "thanks"? :-/	19:39
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: thanks, I'll look around for it. Generally it's something home-replacable, given a lot of care and steady hands?	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	yes, definitely	19:39
tadzik	great. Thank you	19:39
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: one more thing, do you know if there's anything particularly tricky with putting the screen back with the keyboard? It keeps popping of	19:44
tadzik	and all the videos I see cover dissasembly, not assembly	19:45
DocScrutinizer05	err, nothing particularly tricky known, except maybe the latches at/under kbd-frame	19:45
tadzik	so just press it until it clicks?	19:45
DocScrutinizer05	the most tricky part for sure is plugging FPC to mainboard	19:46
tadzik	I managed to do that, yes	19:46
DocScrutinizer05	there's nothing that clicks	19:46
DocScrutinizer05	upper half with slide mech should fall into place easily	19:47
tadzik	there seems to be a metal thing that supposedly goes below the keyboard near the letters ERT	19:47
DocScrutinizer05	check location center upper end of kbd	19:48
DocScrutinizer05	there is some latch	19:48
DocScrutinizer05	yep, exactly	19:48
tadzik	so the trick is to somehow slide it under?	19:48
DocScrutinizer05	that might be a tad tricky and need a little(!) force to snap into place	19:49
DocScrutinizer05	yes	19:49
DocScrutinizer05	you may push and bend a tiny bit, in the end it will fit	19:49
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tadzik	ha, it was way easier after unsliding it	19:56
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DocScrutinizer05	sure :-D	19:58
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tadzik	so _that_ was the trick :P	19:59
DocScrutinizer05	also loosening the kbd frame (2 pcs torx-screw) helps a lot	19:59
tadzik	I thought it's back there, but when I slid it open it appeared to be over the keys :)	19:59
tadzik	huh. It know works _a lot_ better	20:00
tadzik	for now, surely, but it's at least on in both positions	20:00
tadzik	just blinks once in the middle of the way	20:00
tadzik	thanks a lot DocScrutinizer05	20:00
DocScrutinizer05	yw	20:00
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: yep, he found me :-D	20:01
Sicelo	:P	20:01
tadzik	:)	20:02
DocScrutinizer05	regarding getting spare, the offer at http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/flex-ribbon/nokia/n900.html sounds surprisingly reasonably priced	20:02
tadzik	it might be tricky to ship it to Poland	20:03
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tadzik	uh, well, I think I broke the physical lock-unlock switch	20:03
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tadzik	like, I need to press screen and keyboard together and then it works	20:04
DocScrutinizer05	eew	20:05
tadzik	I'd rather not screw the screws to tightly, I don't have any spare ones	20:05
tadzik	okay, a little tighter was enough	20:05
tadzik	sorry for spamming :)	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	if they break, then spare ones are your least problem	20:06
tadzik	unless they get their thread become a nice, round circle	20:06
DocScrutinizer05	however you shouldn't be too careful and gentle on tightening them,	20:06
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DocScrutinizer05	as long as it seems to 'move' something, you want to tighten them further	20:07
DocScrutinizer05	I might find the torque suggested for those, but I'd just say consider it was a wooden match you don't want to break	20:08
DocScrutinizer05	or: trun the screwdriver between thumb and index digit	20:09
tadzik	I now find it hard to resist the urge to slide it back and forth to see if it's working better, I'll better leave it alone as much as possible until my cable gets there	20:09
DocScrutinizer05	you shouldn't apply more than moderate force with this "gesture"	20:09
tadzik	right	20:09
DocScrutinizer05	by no means turn the screwdriver "from your wrist"	20:10
tadzik	haha, it's far too small for that	20:11
tadzik	it's about the size of the n900 stylus	20:11
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, just turn it by sliding your thumb and index fingertips against it	20:12
tadzik	yeah, it seems to be okay now	20:12
DocScrutinizer05	this way you can't apply too much force	20:12
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joga	hmm http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/04/unreleased-nokia-lauta-qwerty-slider-emerges/	21:07
freemangordon	yeah, fuck elop	21:08
tadzik	ha	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully Jolla will end up interesting places	21:09
GeneralAntilles	The whole market is due for some disruption	21:09
tadzik	yeah, I was thinking today what would I buy if my n900 was actually beyond recovery. Not wanting Android nor iPhone the only thing coming to my head was "another n9(00)"	21:10
tadzik	ENOTENOUGHCHOICES	21:10
GeneralAntilles	Android fanboys are the worst.	21:10
tadzik	fanboys are generally nothing good	21:10
freemangordon	:nod:	21:10
GeneralAntilles	tadzik, indeed.	21:11
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: though I think it is too little too late for Jolla. I hope I am wrong	21:11
tadzik	I'm awaiting a day when companies will sell phones without OSes, like you can buy a computer without OS	21:12
tadzik	wondering if I'll see that in the next 50 years ;)	21:12
GeneralAntilles	But the unique delusions about the definitions of open source and Linux that infest Android fanboys are particularly infuriating.	21:12
GeneralAntilles	freemangordon, well, given we have no clear idea of what it is Jolla is bringing to market, it's a little early to be deciding. ;)	21:12
tadzik	oh, you mean the "but I'm using an open platform"?	21:12
GeneralAntilles	tadzik, I have no desire for that.	21:12
GeneralAntilles	"Android is Open Source."	21:13
GeneralAntilles	"Android is Linux."	21:13
GeneralAntilles	No and No.	21:13
freemangordon	hehe, which remembers me the conversation I had with a friend of mine a couple of days ago	21:13
freemangordon	"but, but, I have Linux on my phone"	21:13
freemangordon	some HTC or Sammie, can't remember	21:13
GeneralAntilles	The saddest part is all of the talented people who have been sucked into it.	21:15
GeneralAntilles	Supporting a platform that doesn't support open source or Linux.	21:15
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: (phone without OS) my suggestion since at least 2 years: deliver new hw with (additional) board-support-package, so community can easily port whatever (linux) OS they like	21:18
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: sure. but it is profitable :)	21:18
Lava_Croft	Android is iOS minus the ease of use	21:20
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Sicelo	android guys would skin you alive Lava_Croft!! iOS is child's play according to them	21:25
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Sicelo	someone (last week) was adamant that Maemo has no better multitasking than android.	21:27
tadzik	tbh, I don't know how much multitasking android has	21:27
tadzik	I just know that running 16 apps made them go "woo"	21:28
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: well, that's true. comparing quality of a certain property in two things is nonsense when one of the things is completely missing that property	21:31
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Lava_Croft	android has half-multitasking	21:40
Lava_Croft	but its a bitch to even switch between or close tasks	21:40
Lava_Croft	it reminds me of N8 symbian^3 multitasking	21:41
Lava_Croft	cumbersome	21:41
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Lava_Croft	you have a special button for running tasks, but to even switch between or close a task you have to open this menu	21:41
Lava_Croft	closing a running app, in my experience, comes down to minimizing it and then opening the list of open apps	21:42
Lava_Croft	the app doesnt show up if its the current app	21:42
Lava_Croft	its all very wtf to someone whose first 'smartphone' experience was Maemo5	21:42
Lava_Croft	or to anyone who has used windows or linux in the past 15+ years	21:42
Lava_Croft	its a clear-cut case of typical android stuff	21:43
Lava_Croft	someone went "oh shit! we forgot this"	21:43
Lava_Croft	and then they hacked it in	21:43
Lava_Croft	not too strange if you consider android's roots	21:43
kerio	Lava_Croft: well, it's the same thing as iphone multitasking	21:45
Lava_Croft	no its not exactly	21:45
kerio	to close, you have to background, enter the task list, hold on the application until shit starts jiggling, and then tap close	21:45
Lava_Croft	iphone has no multitasking at all	21:45
kerio	and the current app doesn't appear in the task list	21:45
Lava_Croft	its just a list of recently used apps	21:46
kerio	whatever, it has backgrounding	21:46
Lava_Croft	(that nobody ever uses)	21:46
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Lava_Croft	android's multitasking is different	21:46
kerio	iphone backgrounding actually exists	21:46
kerio	you've got the notification system and all sorts of shit to reduce as much as possible the load on the system	21:46
kerio	it's all fucking dumb, mind you	21:46
kerio	but it works-ish	21:47
Lava_Croft	its different from android's multitasking	21:47
Lava_Croft	we have both iphone and nexus7 here	21:47
Lava_Croft	iphone has way more limited 'multitasking'	21:48
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timeless	hello world	21:55
timeless	anyone here happen to deal in global roaming?	21:55
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DocScrutinizer05	I'd say there's no such thing like reasonable global raoming	21:57
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DocScrutinizer05	except maybe with thuraya and the like	22:01
jacekowski	iridium	22:02
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DocScrutinizer05	>>Aufgrund von bilateralen Roamingabkommen mit über 300 GSM-Netzbetreibern können Thuraya Handys auch mit üblichen GSM SIM-Karten verwendet werden.<<	22:02
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DocScrutinizer05	errrr	22:03
DocScrutinizer05	the handy can be used with mormal SIM cards???	22:03
DocScrutinizer05	I missread, I thought the thuraya SIM (and handy) can roam to 300 networks	22:04
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timeless	DocScrutinizer05: the best i found was O2	22:09
timeless	i seems to give me unlimited (?) global roaming for 80 USD	22:09
DocScrutinizer05	O2 indeed has quite a number of roaming partners	22:09
timeless	(original number was 50 GBP, but i need to think in USD)	22:09
timeless	my general assumption is that a major carrier will have sufficient roaming partners	22:10
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timeless	if it doesn't, its terrible reputation should precede itself	22:10
timeless	so, i'm not particularly worried on that	22:10
timeless	just the basics:	22:10
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timeless	how much data? how reasonable is the fee for the data? how reasonable is the fee for international roaming?	22:11
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DocScrutinizer05	I got O2 prepaid and I never would dare to use data when roaming.	22:15
DocScrutinizer05	there've been poor lusers who got a 5 digit bill after their holiday	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	obviously most of them had contracts, asking for €€€€€ on prepaid is kinda pointless, though occasionally they do that as well	22:18
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DocScrutinizer05	recently EU comission introduced a regulation/law to limit roaming fees to a somewhat reasonable level in Europe	22:22
tadzik	yeah, it's even below 1€ per megabyte for me :)	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	great!	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	could easily be ten times as much	22:23
tadzik	it used to be, methinks	22:23
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	22:23
tadzik	shame that not everywhere you can buy a decent local sim	22:24
jaska	i could see paying 1eur/meg.. if i was roaming on another planet :D	22:24
tadzik	france--	22:24
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer05: thing is, inmarsat is $3/mb	22:24
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer05: and that's over satelite	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	yep	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	that's why I suggested thuraya	22:24
jacekowski	inmarsat coverage is much better	22:25
jacekowski	though nothing beats iridium	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	not much bandwidth but reasonable prices even via sat, so roaming mustn't be more pricey	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, iridium is awesome, technically	22:27
DocScrutinizer05	inmarsat is coming from commercial to mass market	22:28
DocScrutinizer05	anyway I'm not sure inmarsat does any roaming at all	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	they not even got any dual mode phones afaik	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	I might be wrong	22:29
jacekowski	no need for roaming if they have most of planet surface covered	22:30
DocScrutinizer05	sure, but then you might not want to go out into the rain to call your grannie	22:31
jacekowski	why would you want a sat phone when you are in place that has gsm coverage	22:31
DocScrutinizer05	sat phones are pretty much like GPS: no indoor coverage	22:31
jacekowski	i think that's the main reason why sat phone prices have dropped down recently a lot	22:31
jacekowski	because every single shithole has gsm now	22:32
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: it seems thuraya (and iridium?) have a dual mode policy to use same account and hardware via GSM where available and only use sat when in the outback	22:33
DocScrutinizer05	err northpole/sahara (since even outback is completely covered afaik)	22:33
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jacekowski	i'm not sure if thuraya has north pole coverage	22:34
DocScrutinizer05	they don't	22:34
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DocScrutinizer05	only sahara ;-P	22:34
jacekowski	well, most of sahara probably has gsm coverage	22:34
DocScrutinizer05	fuuuuck	22:34
jacekowski	hmm, no	22:35
DocScrutinizer05	actually I think nowadays sat phones are just a nice-to-have for desaster management	22:35
M4rtinK	BTW, Iridium covers both poles :)	22:36
DocScrutinizer05	when there's no electricity and no connectivity and no radio/TV in whole europe due to some mega-blackout, you might be happy with a thuraya, given your friends also have those ;-)	22:37
DocScrutinizer05	iridium covers 100%	22:37
M4rtinK	the Amundsen-Scot south pole station is using a bank of Iridium modems for (slow) Internet access, IIRC	22:37
M4rtinK	on a related note, there is an upgraded version of Iridium in the works - Iridium NEXT	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	wut?	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	next bankrupcy?	22:38
M4rtinK	http://www.iridium.com/About/IridiumNEXT.aspx	22:38
M4rtinK	one is never enough :)	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	seems so	22:39
kerio	can i use my n900 to access that network?	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	no	22:39
kerio	shame	22:39
kerio	does it provide internet?	22:39
M4rtinK	with a serial or USB modem... :)	22:39
kerio	and how quick would it be?	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	well, you might, for iridium there's those 'cradles' that convert normal GSM into iridium phone	22:39
M4rtinK	if you can burn DVDs over USB, why not :)	22:40
kerio	like, how quick are satellite connections in general?	22:41
jacekowski	depends	22:42
jacekowski	how much are you willing to pay	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	awesome animated dif: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_(Kommunikationssystem)#Netzabdeckung	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	gif*	22:43
jacekowski	astra (europe only) does like 10Mbits	22:43
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: mesmerizing	22:44
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DocScrutinizer05	http://www.satcomglobal.com/products-services/network-or-brand-0	22:52
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: >>Thuraya IP is a generation ahead in design and performance. It is an ultra light weight and compact satellite modem and the world’s smallest, most durable terminal to provide speeds of up to 444kbps.<<	22:54
kerio	but that's barely more than EDGE!	22:55
M4rtinK	BTW, we got a talk from technicians of a Satellite Internet provider in a course at school	22:56
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M4rtinK	any they mentioned some interesting things, like competitors technician being eaten by a Tiger in Africa, installing equipment on an embassy in Iraq or outfitting a big jacht with gyrostabilised equipment & dedicated frequency bands in all major oceans & seas :)	22:58
timeless	DocScrutinizer05: yeah...	22:58
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timeless	i've used o2 prepaid (disposable) while in UK/IE	22:58
timeless	but i'm looking into something as a business traveler	22:58
timeless	right now my bill for 2 sim's (CA, US) is ~200USD/mo	22:59
timeless	one of the two plans gives me what i believe is truly unlimited worldwide data	22:59
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timeless	which is a really nice thing... in principle	22:59
timeless	it's sad, i should actually switch from my CA sim to my US sim for use in Canada (dropping my CA subscription)	23:00
timeless	the data rate is better	23:00
timeless	(since there's no 1GB cap)	23:00
DocScrutinizer05	timeless: you're still with RIM?	23:01
timeless	yes	23:01
timeless	hey, my phone bills w/ RIM are probably more reasonable than my bills w/ Nokia :)	23:02
kerio	for shame!	23:02
timeless	(i'm not sure about that, but i think so)	23:02
DocScrutinizer05	a pity we didn't phone-conference while I was with STE	23:02
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	23:02
RST38h	timeless: How much longer?	23:02
timeless	i bought a house	23:02
timeless	i like Toronto :)	23:02
timeless	TIFF starts this week	23:02
timeless	http://tiff.net/	23:02
RST38h	Gotta start looking, with RiM and Nokia in a race toward the abyss =	23:05
* DocScrutinizer05 snorts, blames nasty weather, and heads out		23:06
M4rtinK	don't forget HP ! (at least where mobile devices are concerned) :)	23:10
timeless	RST38h: aww, RIMM was doing better until last month	23:11
timeless	http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1346789481446&chddm=66470&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:RIMM;NYSE:HPQ&cmptdms=0;0&q=NYSE:NOK&ntsp=0&ei=ol9GUPCzKOqT0QGoDQ	23:11
timeless	M4rtinK: good point, my former boss from NOK went to HPQ	23:11
RST38h	HP still making mobile devices?	23:14
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GeneralAntilles	Is Jaaksi still with HP?	23:20
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kerio	timeless: you're the microB dude, aren't you	23:30
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RST38h	Trust my word, all this mobile buggery will end up with Apple and Samsung as the only manufacturers, battling it out in courts	23:39
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, lets hope not.	23:45
GeneralAntilles	Although if it does, I think I'll blame you. ;)	23:45
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* tadzik only know realizes why "Antilles" sounds familiar		23:46
RST38h	yeah yeah, blame me for everything	23:46
* RST38h cackles "nevermore!" and takes off toward the hills		23:47
kerio	quoth the RST, "nevermore"	23:47
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DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: so let me know why it sounds familiar, please :-)	23:57
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: Wedge Antilles was the commander in the X-Wing squadron on the Rebellion and later The New Republic	23:59
tadzik	which makes me think for which book the phrase "General Antilles" is a spoiler :P	23:59

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