IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-08-19

ShadowJKmaybe it just lists the permissions used00:00
keriodo you want to know what the "app" is sending/receiving? just use wireshark or tshark00:03
kerioor, again, just look at the fucking source code00:04
kerioevery package in extras* has the source code00:05
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: ( <Estel_> but, if I insert battery too early - for example, 30 seconds after removal, instead of waiting 2 minutes - it turns itself on instantly, when I put battery in)  bq24150 and/or 1707 PHY misconfigured. Probably a kernel problem00:09
DocScrutinizer05actually it needs a few minutes battery removal to reset those chips to proper state. see:00:10
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover00:10
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: a few minutes... what if one still has a good bupbat?00:18
DocScrutinizer05bupbat doesn't power bq24150 nor 170700:18
DocScrutinizer05just small capacitors00:18
DocScrutinizer05c1113 150uF, c1146 10uF...00:22
DocScrutinizer05you may short battery connector pins (in N900) with some conducting object to reduce time for discharging those00:23
DocScrutinizer05but actually the faulty config *might* as well happen in TWL4030 GAIA, which afaik detects vbus, and that chip indeed is powered by bupbat00:26
DocScrutinizer05and it's known you might configure it in a way it will forbid powerup of device00:27
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DocScrutinizer05btw all this (and more, worse) may happen if you accept "patches" to kernel like the I2C-locking disable patch introduced to make bq27200.ko work01:09
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  this "i2c-locking disable" patch is a history since looong time ago, i.e. it doesn't exist in KP for ages01:10
DocScrutinizer05that's my rationale to oppose any unreviewed untested patches to the lately discussed "cssu kernel"01:11
Estel_personally, I don't use bq27200 at all - reading all things from i2c - but afaik bq27200 may be used properly if loaded before or without bme01:11
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: yes, I know. I spotted the problem and I made it vanish01:11
Estel_and bless You :)01:11
Estel_btw, it's sane to keep heavy experimental things like bq2415 charging outside cssu-kernel01:12
Estel_and afaik it was the plan from beginning?01:12
Estel_anyway, thanks for Your pointers where problem may lie in kernel, I'll forward it to Pali, too01:12
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DocScrutinizer05the severity/danger of undetected lateral effects of any patches can't be deduced from the primary nature of the patch01:13
Estel_as I'm 99,99% sure that it started with latest KP and my experiments with bq2415 module charging01:13
Estel_sure, sure, that's what KP is for (such experimental things like modules for bme-less charging) until they're rock solid. No one opposed way of thinking about kernel-power as extras-experimental :)01:14
Estel_and "kernel" for cssu as place for patches and things stable for ages01:15
Estel_what makes me wonder about this particular trouble, is that no one else reported it. I'm the only one using bq2415 for charging?...01:15
Estel_+ reinob, but he purged half of blobs, including act-dead itself :P01:15
DocScrutinizer05I2C-fuckup been considered "stable for ages" since nobody associated the problems it definitely introduced to the nature of the patch01:16
Estel_personally, I use bq2415.ko for charging exclusively01:16
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Estel_DocScrutinizer,  afaik it was never stable - just added in times of Titan, when he applied every path without review...01:16
Estel_and before people like You, freemangordon, Pali etc. reviewed whole KP01:17
Estel_next thing like that - some good in nature, but unfinished, unmaintained, and kinda random addon - highpass filter in kernel, submitted by luke-jr after new KP duo got estabilished, was detected in minutes01:18
DocScrutinizer05well, before Titan "reviewed" whole KP. A single developer looking cursory across the source is not any sane review, no matter if done by me, Pali, FMG, or Titan01:18
Estel_Titan never reviewed it :P01:18
Estel_then, left without single note, which made it even harder to properly review01:18
vi__~seen a pair of boobs in my life01:18
Estel_it took some time for Pali, fmg and others to clear mess01:19
infobotvi__: i haven't seen 'a pair of boobs in my life'01:19
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  btw, afaik this highpass thing go detected by kp users not from everyday usage, but from reviewing code (!) and then quickly confirmed by fmg01:19
Estel_wasn't it vi_ who  detected it?01:20
DocScrutinizer05nfc what yiu're talking about01:20
Estel_kinda a feat, as path was described wrong way, and brief look at it wasn't resulting in suspicious observations01:20
Estel_there was some good idea path by... Nox? I don't remember01:20
Estel_kernel controlled filters, ages ago01:21
vi__DocScrutinizer05: afaik you can implement an FIR filter on the sound chip...or something.01:21
Estel_main goal was to inroduce hardware equalizer, but idea got abandoned01:21
vi__Estel_: the hardware already supports it.01:21
DocScrutinizer05vi__: I know, as it's again been me who spotted that (well together with HNZ or what's been his name)01:21
Estel_then, luke-jr got old code from this abandoned project, messed it a little, and submitted to KP as ultimate speaker protection01:21
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Estel_the problem is, that it was filtering low frequencies no matter if You use headphones or speakers or fmtx or...01:22
Estel_+, code was not maintained, no one wazs interested in maintaining it, and it wasn't submitted by original author :P01:22
Estel_i.e. standard for KP in Titan's times, with all due respect01:23
vi__~seen titan01:23
infobottitan <~zero@pdpc/supporter/student/titan> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 862d 12h 36m 55s ago, saying: 'extra ips on the default interface'.01:23
Estel_that's why things like i2c-fuckup were included, then. But, hardware highpass got worse luck, as it was submitted in times of real maintainership over KP01:23
vi__they re-made total recall.01:24
vi__without arnie.01:24
Estel_well, our whole discussion about act-dead fuckup proves, that many people, even far frommbeing kernel hackers, are interested in hammering bugs :P01:24
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Estel_vi__,  You're using thumb and KP01:24
Estel_havemYou tried bq2415 module?01:25
Estel_for charging?01:25
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Estel_well, I use it exclusively and it works great, especially for charging 3Ah behemot battery with 1250 mAh instead of 950 ;)01:25
Estel_but, introduced strange bug01:25
Estel_turn device off, and on every ON attempt, it thinks it's in act-dead01:26
vi__act dead mode can suck my balls.01:26
Estel_or "it thinks it *should* go into act-dead"01:26
Estel_got rid of it? :)01:26
vi__just set power_button r&d flag.01:26
vi__problem solved.01:26
vi__no more act dead01:27
Estel_it solves charging in act-dead when connecting to charger? I've forget about it, totally01:27
Estel_well, honestly, act_dead is a biatch, no bootmenu, no backupmenu, no u-boot... I wonder if I should be happy that butbat is flat01:28
Estel_it depends, if it's gaia problem or this 1st one01:28
vi__just set power_button r&d flag.01:28
vi__no more act dead01:29
vi__problem solved.01:29
Estel_yea, just after I'll help in tracoing down issue, as it should be fixed in KP nevertheless01:29
vi__it is a kludge.01:29
Estel_If my 5V capacitors are charged when device is off, it is a problem, no matter of act_dead01:29
DocScrutinizer05I'd say the only thing this "discussion" shows is that patches going to KP do not see even the minimum of review and QA needed for kernel patches01:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  every thing we discuss about is in -devel01:30
vi__DocScrutinizer05: feel free.01:30
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: and you think it will get review before moving from -devel to KP ?01:31
Estel_Well, replacing bme is such a thing, that I don't mind hammering a bug or two in the process :)01:31
Estel_sure, it's what I'm participating now, in a small part :)01:31
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DocScrutinizer05you obviously have no concept of a proper review process01:32
Estel_name a single bug in KP in extras (not fixed later in further releases))01:32
DocScrutinizer05^^^ another evidence that you don't01:32
vi__Estel_: poweroff on reboot bug.01:32
Estel_fortunately, I'm not talking about new android toy for masses, so I don't need to give a shit about corporate review standards, and can follow regular FOSS way of people contributing via using -devel...01:32
Estel_vi__,  there are reports of it happening without KP01:33
Estel_i.e. on stock01:33
Estel_this one is a real biatch, probably result of many different modifications01:33
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vi__idgaf anymore01:34
Estel_If poweroff on reboot ever get fixed, I'm going to open '36 bootle of wine01:34
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Estel_(and hope that it's not acid yet)01:35
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DocScrutinizer05Estel_: that's bullshit. The regular FOSS way to contribute kernel patches is exactly what I refer to, demand, and see is not folllowed a singe bit for KP01:35
Estel_erm, like?01:35
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DocScrutinizer05rewgular (FOSS) way for review of kernel patches: publish patch on LKML, so several hundered *really* experienced experts for that particular topic can review and comment01:36
Estel_ough, several hundred kernel hackers? out of our all 2 of them?01:36
Estel_well, maybe 3 or 401:36
Estel_I think You've missed scale, better compare us to things like openwrt, than to upstream kernel patches01:37
DocScrutinizer05you can't substitute that by "review" done by Pali, estel, DocS, FMG and declaring patch "rock solid" after a few months in some marginal test kernel used by a few hundered users01:37
Estel_not to mention that some things from KP already got upstreamed, IIRC01:37
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DocScrutinizer05theres no difference between KP and any other kernel01:38
Estel_few hundred users would be a heaven, as we have few hundred power users as whole Maemo base01:38
DocScrutinizer05this day's lesson finished, afk01:38
Estel_well, there is difference - KP is targeted for single device users. It's even less than openwrt, which work on few dozens of devices and really got few thousand of active power users01:38
Estel_even they don't follow Your way, as it's not scalable, unfortunately, for less than few ten thousands active users01:39
Estel_what we have in KP looks *very* sane for resources that we have in hand, IMO01:39
Estel_today's polemic finished, going back to hammering out bq2415 bugs by extensive testing in all possible scenarios, before reporting :P01:40
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DocScrutinizer05sure, KP looks *very* sane for what KP is. KP is not the default kernel though, and no way to move KP to CSSU-kernel, even when we kick out some 10% of most suspicious patches, since the remaining 90% are as well without any sane review that's mandatory for a solid kernel meant for regular users. Your own words: "few hundred users would be a heaven, as we have few hundred power users as whole Maemo base". suggests this KP thing by no01:58
DocScrutinizer05means is tested for CSSU-grade standards applicable to kernel01:58
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Luke-JrEstel_: meh, I never said it was ultimate speaker protection; I said it was better than nothing at all, which it still is04:33
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jpinxhow do I force a fsck at boot time - dmesg is giving me a lot of warnings like "FAT: Filesystem error (dev mmcblk0p1) fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos <various numbers>)10:39
jpinxand I seem to have lost dev/usb0 - it's not available when I ifconfig -a but it is showing is dmesg - any ideas?10:41
jpinxmaemo in N90010:41
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jogahmm, that's MyDocs right? open a terminal, get root, do umount /home/user/MyDocs && fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1, and maybe run fsck a few times until it says it's clean, then mount it again or reboot10:45
joga^ jpinx10:46
keriodon't actually do that10:46
jogaoh, why?10:46
keriodo fsck on a real computer10:46
keriojoga: it'll take *ages*10:46
kerioor something10:47
jogahmm, I've done it a few times, it doesn't take that long I think10:47
kerioa computer is still faster though :)10:47
jogaunless I remember wrong. I've also done it with a puter10:47
keriojpinx: if your usb port still works...10:47
jpinxusb is dead10:47
jpinxit's not coming up with ifconfig -a10:48
jogabtw, does touch /forcefsck do anything in maemo?10:48
jpinxbut I see references to it in dmesg10:48
joga(in debian at least it'll fsck at boot if it sees that file)10:48
* jpinx reboots... again10:48
jogathough in this case it wouldn't do the right thing anyway10:48
keriojoga: i think kernel-power-settings has a way of forcing fsck10:49
keriobut for /home, not MyDocs10:49
jpinxrebooted -- still no sign of usb=10:50
jpinxrebooted -- still no sign of usb010:50
jpinxbut dmesg tells me that musb_hrdc periph: enabled eplout for bulk OUT, maxpacket 51210:51
keriowait, what10:52
keriousb0 is the network iface10:52
keriooh, two separate problems10:52
keriojpinx: lsmod | grep g_10:52
jpinxHmmm -- no virtual kbd either - so no way top type |10:53
keriowhat the *fuck* did you do10:53
kerioalso use ssh10:53
jpinxreflashed and tried to get ssh towork10:54
jpinxnow no ssh cos no usb010:54
kerioanyway, you need to put the phone in "pc suite" mode, but you probably know that10:54
kerio(so g_nokia is loaded, and not g_file_storage)10:55
jpinxit's refusing to go into PCSuite mode10:55
jpinxmanually grepping lsmod for g_ shows file storage10:56
jpinxeven after multiple re-plugging into the laptop10:57
jpinxkerio: what will show me why it doesn't allow PCSuite mode?10:58
jpinxit's not coming up in mass storage either -- only allows me charging only mode10:59
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asainthello guys i have a simple question will installing maemeemo remove my current installation packages and the power kernel and mostly cleven or just will change the look of my device thank you11:51
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asainthello guys i have a simple question will installing maemeemo remove my current installation packages and the power kernel and mostly cleven or just will change the look of my device thank you12:10
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keriowtf is maemeemo15:28
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archangelmichaelseems a new look for n90015:47
ZogG_laptopkerio: it's swipe like UI on maemo?15:49
ZogG_laptopi think it's nemo UI on maemo5, not sure15:49
archangelmichaelit's a mix maemo nimo and meego i think15:49
archangelmichaelbut does it change the core of maemo ....?15:50
ZogG_laptoparchangelmichael: haha, you are my archangel :P15:50
archangelmichaelI want to install and try just afraid if i might loose things i have like the power kernel cleven will still work?15:51
archangelmichaeldata ??15:51
archangelmichaelZogG_laptop, am i :P15:51
ZogG_laptoparchangelmichael: backup first for sure15:52
archangelmichaelZogG_laptop, you seem to know what will happen once installed is it a new maemo thing?15:52
ZogG_laptopmake full copy :P15:52
ZogG_laptoparchangelmichael: i don't think you should try, why would you want it, try nemo as dual boot or try this as dual boot as possible15:52
archangelmichaelwill i loose the power kernel plus my cleven foncunality15:53
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ZogG_laptopi dunno how it is installed and what does it installs15:53
archangelmichaelwell i thought to give it a try15:53
archangelmichaelin that case i will keep maemo maybe try dual boot later on15:53
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archangelmichaelfeels much safer with dual boot15:54
archangelmichaeldoes anyone knows if maemo will support an another device than the n90015:55
archangelmichaelbesides n9 having meego15:56
archangelmichaeli just wish n950 was for end users15:57
jacekowskimaemo is dead15:59
archangelmichaelnot for me as long as i have my n900 :)16:00
ZogG_laptopjacekowski: :(16:01
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keriojacekowski: maemo is dead and YOU killed it!16:14
jon_ymaemo is dead, long live maemo!16:21
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narcosHey all. Could anyone recommend a UK repair shop for N900's busted USB ports?16:59
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narcosAnyone use the OS X maemo flasher?17:33
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kerionarcos: me18:26
kerio(on snow leopard)18:26
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DocScrutinizer05narcos: what makes you think your USB port is busted?18:35
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narcoskerio: Any advice on which image to download from ? I live in the UK - and see there's a UK version - not sure what the difference is?20:09
kerionarcos: the Global one20:10
kerioit works on every hardware, iirc20:10
keriothe difference is with fmtx availability20:10
narcosDocScrutinizer: The phone won't charge unless I jiggle the USB plug around20:10
narcoskerio: Right, thanks, I'll use that one20:10
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narcosDocScrutinizer: Actually, Nokia's karma is against me. I have two N900's - both with a similar USB port problem... One I've just repaired with a bit of solder, the other charges if I twist the plug counter clockwise (I assume it has a loose connection too).20:11
narcosI don't want to solder the second one as I just got it on eBay - I'm trying to return to sender20:12
narcos(which is why I want to re-image)20:12
DocScrutinizer05well, when you twist plugs, I guess that's r20:12
DocScrutinizer05the reason where your problems arise from20:12
narcosI've only twisted it in order to get it to charge20:13
DocScrutinizer05you ever considered that the plug could as well be defect, not only the receptacle?20:13
narcosI've tried two different wall chargers, and a PC USB cable20:14
DocScrutinizer05yes, and your reüports were quite non-coherent20:14
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DocScrutinizer05well, sorry, I tried to help the last few days, you weren't really interested. Now I feel it's futile to try20:16
narcosDocScrutinizer05: No I appreciated your help - you suggested it was a software issue20:17
DocScrutinizer05anyway, if you can reflash to send back the supposedly USB-borked device, you're creating a nice paradoxon20:18
narcosDocScrutinizer05: And at the time, it seemed like it might be - but before I got around to reloading the image, my second phone arrived - so I diverted my attention to that one - which developed a similar problem the first time I tried to charge it.20:18
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DocScrutinizer05well, and that doesn't make you wonder?20:19
narcosShould it? The only common element would be the mains electricity supply20:19
kerioand *you*20:19
narcosI promise I'm not rough handling them.20:19
DocScrutinizer05but yu might use a defect plug that in turn ruins the receptacles20:20
narcosThe second phone came with all its own kit...20:20
DocScrutinizer05or simply "inserts" dirt on the contacts20:20
DocScrutinizer05or you restored some defect software to both phones20:21
DocScrutinizer05or it's PEBCAK20:21
narcosWell, sorry to have bothered you. I'll venture on without bugging you.20:22
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keriothat went well20:22
DocScrutinizer05well, I anticipated that reaction20:22
* DocScrutinizer05 shrugs and wanders on doings more appropriate things for outside temepratures >35°C20:24
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* DocScrutinizer05 just utters a suspicion that recently "something" messed up USB/charging/MSM for quite a number of people...20:29
* DocScrutinizer05 looks direction KP51 and bq24150.ko "charger"20:30
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DocScrutinizer05[2012-08-18 21:50:18] <Estel_> kerio,  confirming, this bug seems to have something to do with latest bq2415 things in KP20:32
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DocScrutinizer05might even imagine a situation / bug-behaviour where introducing an anormal situation like D+/-short NOT given anymore, by turning plug, might cause the shite to start working again20:34
DocScrutinizer05of course nobody ever should apply any force to USB plug other than needed to cleanly and straight mating/unmating it20:35
keriosomehow i think mating with your usb port would lead to problems20:36
DocScrutinizer05trying to "test" USB by applying levering or torque force is a really insane thing20:36
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DocScrutinizer05only method you *might* use to test USB mechanically is placing the device on table with your finger under USB plug - but then do NOT apply any force to device, by touching screen or typing on hw kbd!20:39
DocScrutinizer05incidentally this is the only force vector that might cause loose pins on receptacle touch the PCB pads again20:40
DocScrutinizer05and weight of device is the max force the USB may take without you damaging an otherwise completely intact USB receptacle20:42
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DocScrutinizer05~dict mating cycle20:52
infobotcould not find definition for mating cycle20:52
DocScrutinizer05google for "expected number of mating cycles"20:53
DocScrutinizer05btw I got a standard size A plug here that instantly ruins any USB receptacle I plug it to20:54
DocScrutinizer05I'm quite sure such thing happens even more easily on micro-USB20:55
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DocScrutinizer05>>SMA connectors are rated for 500 mating cycles..<<
DocScrutinizer05somehow I think kerio shouldn't discuss technical issues with EE21:04
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Estel_home, sweet home :) i'm back from vacations, for good21:52
Estel_travelling for a day @ 32 C degrees is quite a experience21:53
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sixwheeledbeastjust been reading the logs about mating cycles, lol23:09
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sixwheeledbeasti believe uUSB can have 10000 meaning if you charge once a day your device should last 27 years. (if my math is correct)23:11
keriothat's very little time :(23:13
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sixwheeledbeastConsiderably better than 13 years for miniUSB and 4 years for a standard A/B USB.23:28
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Jef91is there a way to change the blue "NOKIA" at the n900 startup?23:33
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kerioJef91: that's NOLO i think23:40
Jef91nolo kerio ?23:40
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