IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-07-29

keriohm :c00:00
keriobut the screen is already scratched a bit00:00
keriowon't it be awful when applied?00:00
vi_you will see how fucked your screen protector gets and think, shit.  I am glad that is not my screen.00:00
vi_kerio: no.00:00
DocScrutinizer05kerio: :-D00:01
vi_I recommend the vikuiti screen protectors.00:01
vi_they cost around 7 euro each.00:02
vi_but they are worth it.00:02
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keriovi_: amazon it doesn't sell them directly, so no Prime :(00:03
* ShadowJK also has Vikuiti, it's awesome00:04
kerioare folix screen protectors any good?00:04
keriovi_: notice how that's not amazon IT00:05
vi_yes.  It is shipped from germany.00:06
vi_just order through amazon.com00:06
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* ShadowJK ordered it from protectionfilms2400:08
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StyXman_kerio: you *can* order from other amazons, I bought books in .uk and .us00:15
vi_kerio: GOOD FOR YOU SON.00:16
kerioStyXman_: yeah but not with Prime00:17
keriowhich is awesome00:17
* DocScrutinizer05 slaps kerio with 50m of inch wide scotch tape00:17
kerio*mmmmmmmph mmmmmmph mmmmmmmmmmph!*00:18
Estel_well, I use protectors that cost 0,50 euro each, and are absolutely gorgeous and scratch resistant00:19
Estel_this type of polycarbonate, that have 2 foild protecting it, one with red sticker "rem,ove before application" and one blue with "remove after application"00:20
Estel_never failed me00:20
Estel_BTW, most of "manufacturers" just use foil from same source and re-brand it00:20
Estel_my favorite one comes as BlueStar, GT, and so goes on00:21
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StyXman_kerio: prime as in condoms? go to the closest drugstore, you lazy bum! :-P00:27
DocScrutinizer05~dict prime00:29
infobotDictionary 'prime' (1 of 17): \Prime\, a. [F., fr. L. primus first, a superl. corresponding to the compar. prior former. See {Prior}, a., {Foremost}, {Former}, and cf. {Prim}, a., {Primary}, {Prince}.] 1. First in order of time; original; primeval; primitive; primary. "Prime forests." --Tennyson. [1913 Webster] She was not the prime cause, but I myself. --Milton. [1913 Webster] Note: In this sense the word is nearly superseded by primitive, except ...00:29
infobot:), DocScrutinizer0500:32
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qwazix_900freemangordon: ping00:33
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ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: oh, caught ya00:42
evil|Jonnecssu update appears to be stuck00:42
vi_what do you mean stuck?00:45
vi_and by cssu update do you actually mean cssu-thumb update?00:45
evil|Jonneprogress bar was all the way to the end, phone didn't respond to any input00:45
evil|Jonnejust pulled out the battery, booting now00:46
vi_so you left it there for a good LONG wgile right?00:46
evil|Jonnewas in that state for at least half an hour00:46
vi_what did you use to update?00:47
evil|Jonneupdate manager00:47
evil|Jonnethe default one00:47
evil|Jonnealthough i have fapman installed too00:47
vi_booted yet?00:48
evil|Jonnedon't use the phone as my primary any more, though00:48
evil|Jonnedesktop just appeared, loading icons00:48
vi_from xterm enter dpkg -l | grep mp-00:48
vi_what is the version that appears00:48
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vi_wait, you are on cssu-t.00:51
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evil|Jonneis there a stable cssu, perhaps?00:51
vi_do you have devel enabled?00:52
* evil|Jonne checks00:52
evil|Jonnei use the n9 as my phone now, so rarely use/boot my n900 any more00:52
evil|Jonneit feels unbearibly slow00:52
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vi_realy? mine is as slippy as bulgarian butter.00:54
evil|Jonneyeah, extras testing is on00:54
vi_from xterm run apt-get update00:54
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vi_then apt-get -f install00:54
vi_(as root)00:54
freemangordonqwazix: pong00:55
evil|Jonnewith devel enabled or disabled?00:55
evil|Jonnei just disabled it (it's still running its apt-get update thing)00:56
evil|Jonnenot sure why i had devel on in the first place00:57
vi_evil|Jonne: because that ia where all the ool shit is.00:57
infobotvi_ meant: evil|Jonne: because that ia where all the cool shit is.00:57
evil|Jonneapt-get -f install didn't do anything, i have 3 packages that are held back00:58
evil|Jonnelol, fail00:58
vi_what are the helb back?00:58
evil|Jonnewell, 3 not upgraded00:58
vi_which are?00:58
evil|Jonneusually means you need to run dist-upgrade, but on maemo you should just leave them as they are (i heard)00:59
evil|Jonnekernel-power libgcc1 libstdc++600:59
freemangordonthat is ok00:59
freemangordonthough it is strange KP is help back, any multiboot installed?01:00
vi_evil|Jonne: you sure you have devel disabled?01:00
evil|Jonnenot sure why maemo is different from other distro's that use apt, though01:00
freemangordonevil|Jonne: could you please make sure you don't have extras-devel enabled?01:01
evil|Jonnein that regard01:01
freemangordonas libgcc anlibstdc are only in extras-devel01:01
vi_evil|Jonne: edit $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:01
vi_evil|Jonne: edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:02
vi_comment out testing and devel01:02
vi_apt-get update01:02
freemangordonvi_: why edit, HAM will overwite tose01:02
freemangordonbetter disable them from HAM01:02
freemangordonthough it will take some time01:02
vi_freemangordon: yes, however this guy is not a noob and it is quicker to edit that file and just use apt.01:03
evil|Jonneyeah, don't know where the actual sources are stored, maemo is weird that way01:03
freemangordonvi_: aah, ok01:03
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vi_evil|Jonne: edit $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:03
vi_evil|Jonne: edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:03
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keriofreemangordon: my HAM takes 12 minutes for apt-worker to do whatever it's supposed to do, if i tell it to reload the repos01:03
vi_kerio: ham sucks balls.01:03
freemangordonkerio: disable -testing and -devel01:03
keriofreemangordon: i don't have -testing enabled01:04
keriowhy would i01:04
kerioi have -devel01:04
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keriothey're nested01:04
kerioor something01:04
evil|Jonnesources.list is empty?01:04
freemangordonno, they are not01:04
evil|Jonneis that normal?01:04
freemangordonevil|Jonne: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:04
keriofreemangordon: are there packages in extras and/or extras-testing that are not in -devel?01:04
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evil|Jonnedeb ./01:04
evil|Jonnedeb ./01:04
evil|Jonnedeb ./01:04
evil|Jonnedeb fremantle free non-free01:04
evil|Jonnedeb fremantle free non-free01:04
evil|Jonnedeb fremantle free non-free01:04
freemangordonkerio: versions are different usually01:04
evil|Jonneis in hildon-app....list01:04
keriofreemangordon: ...oh really01:05
freemangordonevil|Jonne: remove  deb fremantle free non-free01:05
freemangordonkerio: remove extras-devel and HAM will update in 2-3 minutes01:05
keriofreemangordon: but i don't wanna D:01:06
vi_2-3 minutes?? thats bloody fast.01:06
kerioi just don't use HAM :)01:06
freemangordonvi_: yes, -testing and -devel is what brings HAM on its knees01:06
evil|Jonnei can confirm that HAM is ridiculously slow01:06
freemangordonevil|Jonne: no need, we all know that :)01:07
evil|Jonneeven slower than ubuntu's botching of apt01:07
freemangordonevil|Jonne: but if you disable -testing catalog you'll be surprised01:07
vi_fuck ubuntu.01:07
vi_debian for life.01:07
freemangordonvi_: shhht, i im going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P01:08
* evil|Jonne still uses ubuntu, but i've seen apt get slower and slower over the years01:08
freemangordons/i im/ I am/01:08
infobotfreemangordon meant: vi_: shhht,  I am going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P01:08
vi_freemangordon: dont bother. ubuntu is so fucking lame.01:08
vi_Your better of with windows 7.01:08
evil|Jonnei basically still use it out of habit, don't use unity or anything01:09
freemangordonwe,, i instaled 12.04 on the desktop in my office and with LXDE it is ok01:09
freemangordonvi_: WHAT windoze 701:09
freemangordonno way, i'd better put DOS 3.30 on it01:09
evil|Jonnefreedos for life01:09
keriofreemangordon: i have a shitton of repos enabled anyway01:09
freemangordonvi_: did you find some lab rat to test RAM usage?01:10
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evil|Jonnevi_, what DE do you use?01:10
evil|Jonneor are you a TTY man?01:11
vi_evil|Jonne: it is all about the lxde these days.01:13
evil|Jonnei have lxde on my netbook01:13
Estel_freemangordon, latest kernel as per features/bugfixes is kp51r or kernel-cssu?01:13
Estel_is it safe to install things form thumb repo today?01:13
Estel_vi_, reinstalling mafw haven't solved issue01:13
Estel_It's really pissing me off01:14
vi_evil|Jonne: although I am ALWAYS ssh'd into my n900 so TTY is also good for me.01:14
vi_Estel_: time.01:14
Estel_no freakin way01:14
freemangordonEstel_: kernel-cssu2 is KP5001:14
evil|Jonnei have a script that automounts the n900 and n9 filesystems when they're on my network01:14
Estel_are You sure that it is sane to keep same kernel separated?01:14
Estel_saw Your reply...01:14
vi_evil|Jonne: sweet.01:15
Estel_but for self-containing repo, kernel-power could just sit there01:15
freemangordonwill try to push kernel-cssu3 in 1-2 hours01:15
vi_evil|Jonne: good idea too.01:15
freemangordonEstel_: not a good idea01:15
Estel_as for kernel-power bugs and noise, noobs will still report kernel-power bugs as thumb bugs when using thumb01:15
evil|Jonnescrew plugging your phone in to move files to and from it :p01:15
evil|Jonnebut nautilus doesn't like it when your phone disconnects mid-transfer01:15
Estel_generally, this need to swap between kp and kernel-cssu after every release is kinda PITA. Not complaining or demanding, just my view on it01:16
freemangordonAnd I really want to achieve both things - community kernel and -thumb repo01:16
vi_I agree, however a USB cable is WAY faster than wifi transfer.01:16
Estel_freemangordon, thats ok, but You need to fork CSSU to achieve that01:16
Estel_which wouldn't be bad, anyway01:16
freemangordonEstel_: why?01:16
vi_freemangordon: not yet.01:16
Estel_You know why ;P01:16
Estel_ABI compatible etc01:16
freemangordonno, I don;t, elaborate please01:16
freemangordonit is ABI compatible01:17
Estel_I agree, one of CSSU maintainers doesn't01:17
vi_Estel_: no he doesnt.01:17
Estel_vi_, seriously?01:17
freemangordonlast time I checked, doc was not CSSU maintainer01:17
vi_as long as kp has thumb errata.01:18
Estel_ugh, at least he lieks to sound like one01:18
infobotEstel_ meant: ugh, at least he likes to sound like one01:18
freemangordonthat's a different think01:18
vi_then you can just cherry pick whatever thumb compiled stuff you want from thumb repo.01:18
Estel_freemangordon, if You can convince merlin1991 and MohammadAG, then it's OK01:18
freemangordonEstel_: KP has its purpose to check the new stuff01:19
Estel_yea, inc ase of Community kernel it makes sense01:19
freemangordonKCSSU does not aim that01:19
Estel_damn typos01:19
freemangordonit should be rock stable01:19
Estel_ok, so You plan to make thumb cssu variant happy with kernel-feature-thumb-errata...01:19
freemangordonyes, the casi is community kernel01:19
Estel_so installing it alongside kernel-power won't need messing up with control file?01:19
freemangordonEstel_: no01:19
vi_Estel_: thumb thing is FMGs baby project.  He can do whatever the F* he wants with it.  thumb!=cssu01:19
freemangordonI don;t plan a fork01:20
freemangordon-thumb has its place in cssu-thumb repo01:20
Estel_sure, but I'm lsot here. You plan to push kernel-cssu3 which is kp51r2 or r1 or whatever01:20
freemangordonthe KCSSU is a different animal and its place is in main CSSU01:20
freemangordonbut not until it is proven to not break stuff01:21
Estel_]I understand it, that community-kernel will be stock + thumb01:21
Estel_so how it will be different from kernel-power?01:21
freemangordonit will be KP rebranded, with some stuff stripped01:21
Estel_0_o stripped? why so?01:21
freemangordonso if you have KP installed, there will be no need to install KCSSU01:21
Estel_ok, thats understandable. something like kp-ultra-ultra stable01:22
freemangordonEstel_: uninstaller is an example01:22
freemangordonKp uninstaller that is01:22
Estel_so now, why instead of putting kernel-cssu3 in few hours, You won't alter cssu-thumb control files, to be satisfied with kernel-power Provides: thumb-errata?01:22
Estel_= it would be satisfied with *both* kp and kernel-cssu?01:23
Estel_AFAIK, kernel-power have Provides: thumb-errata-blabla specified01:23
freemangordonand why do you think they are not altered in that way?01:23
Estel_erm, because You can't install pr-community-something from thumb repo, as it automagically pulls kernel-cssu even if kp51r1 is installed?01:24
Estel_or I'm wrong on that one?01:24
freemangordonthe next version won't pull cssu-kernel if you already have KP51r201:24
freemangordonthe point is that if you don;t have KP it will pull KCSSU01:25
Estel_and that's the thing I though would be best :) but when is this version sheduled?01:25
DocScrutinizer05(<freemangordon> vi_: shhht, i im going to replace my windoze with ubuntu (some day) :P) now that's any replacing?01:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer, with LXDe instead of unity? sure01:25
freemangordonEstel_: i will try to push that today01:25
DocScrutinizer05nope, see xkcd for truth about buntkuh01:26
Estel_freemangordon, thanks, and no haste, I was just fixing my knowledge about how it looks now and how it is going to look soon :)01:26
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yeah, ubuntu with LXDE != Win701:26
Estel_win7? better stick with XP if You must have windoze01:26
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freemangordonand i just cannot imagine a replacement of WinXP with Win701:26
Estel_btw, without unity, ubuntu and debian are quite almsot same thing01:26
Estel_freemangordon, same here ;)01:27
Estel_still using XP on windoze machine, and microshit can kiss my ass with vista, 7, 8, or anything01:27
freemangordonEstel_: WinXP is not stable on my 4 cores :(01:27
Estel_why so?01:27
freemangordoni get BSOD every now and then01:27
Estel_strange, reportedly it should work with 4 cores OK'ish01:27
freemangordonbecause of my mainboards chipset, some shitty NVidia01:27
Estel_btw, bsod can originate from anything in windoze :P01:27
freemangordonand NVidia drivers suck balls on muticore01:28
freemangordonesp AGP minidriver01:28
Estel_well, on my notebook I use Nvidia, but considering all things Nvidia did, my next and all other graphic cards anmd chipsets will be ati01:28
DocScrutinizer05ubuntu: turns out distro is just a windows vista with some custom themes01:28
ZogG_laptopati is good cards but shitty drivers01:28
Estel_wut? bullshit, nvidia is most shitty thing to support in linux01:29
freemangordonnahh, my GPU is ATI, CPU AMD. Imagine how stable is that on NVidia chipset :D01:29
vi_DocScrutinizer05: and how do you feel about the way ubuntu deals with the root account?01:29
vi_sudo this, sudo that.01:29
Estel_sudo make me pizza01:29
DocScrutinizer05sudo my sausage!01:29
freemangordonvi_: sudo su01:29
freemangordonand you're in :P01:29
infobotwell, jrtools is
vi_freemangordon: actually, sudo passwd root.01:30
vi_gtg bb01:30
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DocScrutinizer05fix your friggin sudoers.d/* at least, when you feel like having to use buntkuh01:30
Estel_freemangordon, so i'll wait again with jumping into thumb with main device, I'm sure post in thumb thread will appear after update to cssu-thumb?01:30
ZogG_laptopnvidia do not support linux that much, but they do drivers and they work better than ati's. though lack of optimus. but same with ati, as it's mostly X problem01:30
Estel_see ya freemangordon01:31
ZogG_laptopbumblebee solves it01:31
Estel_as far as I'm concerned, main problem is nvidia being windoze biased01:31
ZogG_laptopwindows is bad in any case doesn;t atter hw01:31
Estel_I have 8600GT and it's wonderfull card, still able to do many great things. But using later one sin linux is PITA, compared to ati01:31
ZogG_laptopbut i think XP vs 7 is just stupid flameware and oldfags being oldfags01:32
freemangordonZogG_laptop: well actually XP after 10 years is ok01:32
Estel_while 7 wasn't ok in time of release and isn't now01:32
Estel_and it's more than 10 years, actually :D01:32
ZogG_laptopfreemangordon: true, XP is good and way better than 7, but 7 is new, and you can't stand on one place01:32
ZogG_laptopit's like saying that 3310 is better and battery is longer01:32
Estel_of course I can.01:32
Estel_especially when someone want me to go backward01:33
ZogG_laptopi actually barelly use win01:33
freemangordonZogG_laptop: and that is why I will move to XP like stuff (ubuntu with lxde) :P01:33
Estel_7 doesn't offer *anything* that matter for my use case, and XP backported (officially or not) everything that may be needed.01:33
ZogG_laptopand last one i used on daily use was XP01:33
ZogG_laptopbut i have 7 for school and it's pretty nice and working ok01:33
ZogG_laptopbut it's still windows01:33
freemangordonZogG_laptop: win7 working nice?01:34
Estel_see? told ya that You're typical windows user01:34
* Estel_ hides01:34
ZogG_laptop7 offers better driver support(though they do not always support old stuff)01:34
Estel_better as in? with more recent date in name?:P01:34
ZogG_laptopand they support newer hardware and things that XP is old for, does XP still gets updates?01:34
freemangordonZogG_laptop: it is such a bloatware i have no words in my dictionary to explain01:35
Estel_well, it does, at leats my update manager is sure01:35
DocScrutinizer05ponder why big companies still use XP on all their office PC, folks!01:35
Estel_otherwise, it's gettting 8updates from sentient alien race01:35
Estel_DocScrutinizer, sure01:35
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: office is office, they want to save money right?01:35
Estel_most dedicated gamers with single brain cell working also use XP01:35
ZogG_laptop8 is something else01:35
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freemangordon2 GB or RAM for just the OS?!?01:35
Estel_7 is bloated as freemangordon said, + resource sucker01:35
ZogG_laptopas they decided to go other way at all01:35
Estel_yea, with 8 they decided to port windows phone to desktop :P01:36
freemangordonZogG_laptop: yeah , next is the best, we know M$01:36
freemangordonEstel_: +101:36
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: do you really think a company that develops embedded software size of a mature linux distro is considering to save money on desktop PC licences?01:36
ZogG_laptopbut 7 woorks perfect and really fast with my laptop and can last on powersaving for a long time01:36
Estel_judging like that, because facebook and browser works on it?:P01:36
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: i think they should use linux than =)01:36
Estel_with 4GB RAM?:P01:36
ZogG_laptopEstel_: mostly i use visual studio and office01:37
freemangordonZogG_laptop: works? you mean it boots in you open the explorer in less than a minute?01:37
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DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: why should they?01:37
freemangordonanyway, I am back to kernel-cssu301:37
ZogG_laptopEstel_: yes as i said it's new and good for new hw, so i use new hw, if i use old pc, i would stick to ms-dos. depends on need01:37
Estel_well, libreoffice>all, and some people also like those context-aware officue suites, can't recall name01:37
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: what got linux to do with all that now?01:38
ZogG_laptopEstel_: maybe, but you tell people who don't have it and use doc01:38
Estel_freemangordon, sure, keeping my thumbs for thumb cssu :)01:38
Estel_no problem, my libreoffice documents are openable by microshit office too01:38
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: like i would like mac to develop for mac, linux for linux and win for win... but i can't argue on that01:38
Estel_this discussion reminds me last one about shitness of capacitive screens :)01:39
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: I didn't say we're devoliping linux01:39
Estel_he said "size of linux distro" not "linux distro"01:39
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: lrn2read!01:39
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i used to wrote to college and all sites that use only doc or support only ie, but want can i do else, i need it more than they, so i can't force them and they force me01:39
Estel_+ lack of comformism.01:40
Estel_as said, my libreoffice documents works well for people with microshit01:40
Estel_and even without it, no one will even force me to pay license or pirate microshit01:40
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: kill me, for misunderstanding =)01:40
Estel_well, fanboism is fanboism. I'm going back to try fixing my .ogg and theora playback, #@$#@$01:40
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: are you asking me with my grumpy fart hat on, or with my chanop hat on?01:41
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ZogG_laptopEstel_: that's why i prefer pdf as homework and CV and any info i get, send. but sometimes i get docs =\01:41
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: you can read as you want. both options are not pleasent01:41
ZogG_laptopi mean sure if i have something working good and all i need is ok i'll use xp01:42
DocScrutinizer05you bet they aren't. so you shouldn't ask me to kill you01:42
ZogG_laptopbut if i buy new computer that goes with 7 already i wouldn't reinstall xp there01:42
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: just sometimes really tired of ways you suddenly moody. what can i say?01:43
ZogG_laptopit's like with time it gets worse ) i remember you always being nice guy few years ago, or let's say mostly01:44
DocScrutinizer05well, there are things *I* get tired of01:44
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: then why do you communicate if you don't want to talk with/about?01:44
DocScrutinizer05read last 150 lines of scrollback to find an example01:44
ZogG_laptopit's our both waste of time, so i don't see how it's better just telling me that i got that sentence wrong?01:45
ZogG_laptopbetter than*01:45
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: nevermind, wasn't meant to sound offensive or moody or anything01:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe just my sense of humour got a tad more sarcastic and bitter over the years01:47
DocScrutinizer05and yes, my boss never fails to express his hope for company eventually switching to newer windows version, or even linux01:50
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i know that feeling. for me it's always hard to understand you, as i mostly take it seriously. and you ignoring me only proves that i can't be sure if it is joke or not. but i don't take it offencive. just comfusing sometimes =P01:50
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: there is one maemo dev who wants to witch company as he wants to use linux and not to work with windows01:51
DocScrutinizer05sorry for that. I know I'm hard to get right most of the times01:51
ZogG_laptopjust those switches are expensive for company and it's not only time01:52
ZogG_laptopit's not only money i mean01:52
ZogG_laptopbut time01:52
ZogG_laptopi'm sleepy already01:52
DocScrutinizer05there are also a lot of custom made tools that cease to work on major OS updates01:52
ZogG_laptopyou need to check if everything works with new system, try it and update everything for it. you cant just tell someone who used to be your admin or dev that tomorrow he gonna mantain\develop other os01:53
ZogG_laptopso that's why i said expensive01:53
ZogG_laptopand not only buying license01:53
DocScrutinizer05so we basically agree01:54
ZogG_laptopi worked at ministery of education as security. they just updated to new computers with i7 and win7, while they use it only for docs and emails. and there are school with lack of any computers01:54
ZogG_laptopbtw old one were not donated to schools =)01:54
ZogG_laptopi like when people in areas like that update01:55
ZogG_laptopas it doesn't really matter, just few guys making decision getting profit and company like microsoft are.01:55
ZogG_laptopit's a pitty =)01:55
freemangordonCould anyone tell me what is the latest version of kernel-power-flasher?01:56
freemangordonEstel_: ^^^ ?01:56
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: btw i wonder what laptop u use?01:56
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: as you are advanced in hardware area01:57
Estel_freemangordon, lemme check01:57
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DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: (some farts making decisions and money, while everybody else suffering) see - in Germany _everybody_ is supposed to have a windows PC as you have to use that shit to declare your taxes and that elster shit doesn't work with anything but windows01:58
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* Estel_ kick his net connection01:59
Estel_damn, it updates sloooowly01:59
DocScrutinizer05and they may make you pay a fine for doing your taxes on paper01:59
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, wine doesn't help?01:59
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: and if you write to them they answer like "we are working on it" and they not really )01:59
DocScrutinizer05now THAT'S what I call brilliant lobbying of M$ drones01:59
Estel_DocScrutinizer, just set complaint to human righhts department in EU :)02:00
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: and goverment and education branches? though i know colleges and unis forcing to use odf02:00
Estel_you will win some $$$02:00
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: (PC) Lenovo T500, Panasonic toughbook CF-2902:00
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i don't think so as i think it will cost more time/money thing02:01
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Estel_wrong, as always - fine's for such things are big, like 40k euros02:01
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i though you may say thinkpad =)02:01
Estel_not fines02:01
Estel_fines for goverments are like millions ;)02:01
ZogG_laptopbut as you see noone do it for reason02:01
freemangordonEstel_: 1:2.6.28-10power51r1 ?02:01
ZogG_laptopit can last years as well02:01
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Estel_none do it because sheep effect02:01
Estel_freemangordon, my apt just update repos, checking02:02
ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: what was that pull request? and why u have debian dir back there?02:02
freemangordonqwazix_900: pong02:02
ZogG_laptopEstel_: you as EU citizen can do it. But it's not always sheep effect. it can cause you a lot of money and time to lose till you get it back. and time is your work and family. as well majority uses win02:03
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qwazix_900ZogG_laptop: oops, something went wrong... that's why the pull request and I didnt push myself02:03
ZogG_laptopi think it's better to inform FOSS Foundation or something02:03
Estel_Estel_: 1:2.6.28-10power51r1    correct02:04
Estel_freemangordon, ^^^02:04
Estel_sorry for being slow, my N900 is doing LZMA backup of Ed partition02:04
qwazix_900freemangordon: I just reflashed, tested camera-ui, installed cssu-thumb, installed fcamera02:04
Estel_so you know, it took a while to update repos and check it02:04
freemangordonok, thanks , new update in a couple of minutes02:05
Estel_thanks a lot, but I hope You haven't forget about multiboot users, freemangordon?02:05
Estel_we don't need flasher at al;l02:05
freemangordonEstel_: just have in mind it will remove stock kernel ;)02:05
qwazix_900doesn't work and takes camera-ui with it02:05
ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: wrong? i passed thru commits but i don't see anycritical changes. you need to not mess with script and qtc_packaging libs and you are safe. but script should delete debian dit02:05
freemangordonEstel_: NFC about multiboot02:05
Estel_freemangordon, sure, stock kernel isn't in my personal vocabularity ;)02:05
Estel_freemangordon, multiboot users jsut need kernel-power-bootimg02:05
Estel_so pelase, don't put flasher in dependencies ;)02:05
qwazix_900unistalled fcamera, and camera-ui works again02:06
Estel_please* damn02:06
freemangordonqwazix_900: which kernel?02:06
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qwazix_900ZogG_laptop: okay, seems I should run the script02:06
freemangordonqwazix_900: that is really strange, i did the test a couple of hours ago and all went fine02:07
qwazix_900freemangordon: the one which comes with ssu-thumb02:07
freemangordonqwazix_900: where did you install fcamera from?02:07
freemangordonas i used the one in extras02:07
ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: check if you have rm debian in the end. and check if it works and creates tar.gz and dsc files, if it is. than push changes. as well use .gitignore for .pro.user file and .o files and other temp files you don't want to sync02:08
qwazix_900didn't do anything else. Reflash combined, installed cssu-thumb, installed fcamera, rebooted02:08
qwazix_900ZogG_laptop: ok02:08
Estel_freemangordon, kernel-power-bootimg is thing multiboot users need to have KP, no flasher needed02:09
freemangordonqwazix_900: fuuck, it is me who have extras-devel enabled :(02:09
ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: os merge and if you still have problems we can look in it. i just need to go to sleep.02:09
qwazix_900freemangordon: also deleted .fcamera folder ot be sure emmc didn't have anything to do02:09
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freemangordonqwazix_900: ^^^02:09
Estel_freemangordon, fcamera from -devel is only one that matters02:10
Estel_extras one is outdated as hell'ish hell02:10
freemangordonEstel_: why is that?02:10
qwazix_900ZogG_laptop: ok, goodnight02:10
Estel_because one from extras is like kp2402:10
Estel_can refuse to work even on stock02:10
ZogG_laptopqwazix_900: night02:10
freemangordonEstel_: and why the one in -devel is still in -devel?02:10
Estel_version from -devel should be promoted to extras ages ago02:11
qwazix_900freemangordon, Estel_, I got fcamera from testing02:11
Estel_because original maintainer doesn't give a fuck anymore02:11
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Estel_if it is different version that in -devel, same applyu02:11
freemangordonqwazix: qwazix_900: sure, but could you check which version if drivers you have installed?02:12
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qwazix_900AFAIK fcamera is not in extras at all02:12
Estel_ZogG, time required to fight for right law isn't any excuse for not fighting02:12
freemangordonqwazix: 1.0.7-2 here02:12
freemangordonqwazix_900: ^^^02:12
qwazix_900I uninstalled it now, let me reinstall02:13
freemangordonqwazix_900: try with extras-devel enabled02:13
qwazix_900kk, afk for 10min02:13
freemangordonok :)02:13
ZogG_laptopEstel_: easy to say, harder to do. we are fucked by govs and big companies everyday and you not always can do something02:14
Estel_in our country, there is stupid law that allow medical staff to deny doing legally awailable abortion, when health of mother is in danger. the result is, that many such women are bounced from one medic to another02:14
Estel_cause in theoryl, refusing medic must forward patient to other doctor, than doesn't refuse - in practice, they doesn't give a shit02:14
Estel_one of such woman sued goverment, and of course, won02:15
ZogG_laptopit's grey area02:15
Estel_sure, it required time, money, etc, but I'm sure she got more money than invested in lawsuit, and honestly, human rights departmens in eu doesn't require much money02:15
Estel_most of the times, fighting in local justice departments is more expensive02:15
Estel_forcing all tax payers to use programs written for windoze only, or having them to pay more, is forcing to use windows or to pirate it02:16
Estel_and goverment need to be spanked in balls every few days, or it goes quite arrogant, if no one care to fight a little.02:16
freemangordonEstel_: the new update is out, not sure it will work though02:17
ZogG_laptopEstel_: now i'm jobless, btw old boss screwed me with new job i found and i can do nothing about that wich is an example and have time. but before i'm student and worked almost full time. i had no time for those things. but i actually wrote email once with complaining to customers rights service and they won it(no sue, just talked to them )02:17
Estel_many bad practices are common, due to no one carrying to hit sticky hands with rusty forks02:17
zeq1Just checking in before going to bed.  I've been fighting with scratchbox, while I've had time trying to update the cputransp devkit.  I should hopefully have something tomorrow, I've been quite busy today!02:17
Estel_I know that it require much effort sometime02:18
Estel_but well, lifer without effort isn;t fun, yep?02:18
* zeq1 seems to have lost the ability to write in coherent sentences02:18
Estel_freemangordon, thanks02:18
freemangordonzeq1: good night, sleep well02:18
Estel_have You installed it?:P02:18
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freemangordonEstel_: no, updating in HAM02:18
zeq1night all :)02:19
Estel_sure, if it works initially for You, I'm all for testing02:19
ZogG_laptopEstel_: depends on price, sometimes it's just about being right.02:19
freemangordonesfraga: it will work if it manages to install :)02:19
Estel_sure, i'm definitelly not going to sue german goverment for forcing doc to pay taxes through windows, Doc is one to do :D02:19
ZogG_laptopEstel_: if it's losing job + kicked of school than i prefer to ignore it02:19
freemangordonEstel_: ^^^02:19
Estel_freemangordon, yea02:20
Estel_I need to wait until LZMA archive ends appearing, anyway02:20
Estel_I think it's about 80% now02:20
Estel_it's wonderfull, that I can make lzma archive of whole Ed partitionkk, and still have quite responsible device02:20
Estel_in fact I forget I'm doing it, only FAM slowness reminded me02:20
Estel_as FAM is never slow, normally:P02:20
Estel_thanks a lot for Your effort, freemangordon02:21
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fam is short for familiar02:21
ZogG_laptopi remmeber what is FAP manager =)02:21
ZogG_laptopi miss n900 sometimes =)02:21
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Estel_it is FAM, or fapman02:22
ZogG_laptopi need to use usb fix when it's too late and you just use board contacts =)02:22
ZogG_laptopEstel_: right, fapman02:22
Estel_fap yourself ;)02:22
Estel_<ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if it's losing job + kicked of school than i prefer to ignore it02:22
freemangordonhmm, HAM somehow managed to install it without error, lets see if the device will boot :D02:22
Estel_you can always change schoold or screw it totally, be punk :)02:23
ZogG_laptopEstel_: neva is to neva ignore?02:23
freemangordonEstel_: please use HAM this time for the upgrade, don;t use FAM02:23
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ZogG_laptopi'm screwing it without other efforts02:23
Estel_suuuure. Haven't you seen that I'm eleghant punk soul?02:23
ZogG_laptopas lack of motivation and laziness02:23
ZogG_laptopi need to get a job but not really searching now02:23
freemangordonwell, booting, yay02:23
Estel_freemangordon, ok, do you expect problems with fapman re cssu-thumb?02:23
ZogG_laptopold boss is a bitch02:23
freemangordonEstel_: this time, because of the kernel-cssu replacing kernel02:24
ZogG_laptopok noght02:24
Estel_unless he is pope and You search for work in vatican, it should be so huge problem?02:24
freemangordonwell, well, "operating system successfuly updated"02:24
Estel_freemangordon, wait, you've said that after this update I can use kp51r1 with cssu-thumb, without replacing kernel?02:24
Estel_sounds nice02:24
freemangordonEstel_: if you have KP it shouldn't install KCSSU02:25
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Estel_freemangordon, yea02:25
freemangordonbut as you can imagine didn't test it02:25
Estel_I though you know already i'm notorious kp user02:25
freemangordonbe ny guest02:25
Estel_BTW, currently, which one is more recent as per features? kernel-cssu or kp51r1?02:25
freemangordonbith are equal02:25
Estel_I'll hapilly test it, as soon as process of archiving Ed ends02:26
Estel_so kernel-cssu3 is kp51r102:26
Estel_this is madness :P02:26
Estel_ZogG, seriously, if it's not too personal, what he did to screw You in new job?02:26
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i found job, but i had contract wich says i can't work in comppany working with asterisk for 2 years. though it's illegal and job title was junior developer and not admin/tech support. but he i cant sue him, i can win only if he sues me. and he just called new boss and talked him out to take me, as he said it would make war. and as new boss preffer quite, i was with no job(old boss wanted me to stay but i hated to work there)02:26
Estel_wow, you're fast at writing02:27
Estel_ZogG, of course You can sue him02:27
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i started before you asked )02:27
Estel_for illegal contract02:27
Estel_I know02:27
Estel_was jsut joking02:27
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i went to lawer actually and talked to few02:27
ZogG_laptopthey said only if it happens again02:27
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Estel_there is no "again" in law02:28
ZogG_laptopproblem is that i had no contract with new boss yet02:28
Estel_either it's illegal for the first one to, or legal at all02:28
ZogG_laptopwe closed that i'll quit first02:28
Estel_You can sue new boss too, for working illegally ;)02:28
Estel_but, it;'s not related to new job at all02:28
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Estel_You can sue 1st boss for illegal contract anyway02:28
Estel_no matter of any further job02:28
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ZogG_laptopit's not case as i had no contract, so lawer said it's not enuf and doesn't worth to do anything. he said but it changes if it happens again02:29
Estel_also, next time, you should collect evidence, i.e. record conversation, when new boss told You that old boss contacted him etc02:29
Estel_strange lawyer02:29
Estel_how exactly was it about Your first job?02:29
Estel_you worked there in grey area?02:29
ZogG_laptopi can sue for personal attack (letters from lawer he wrote and calls and calling new boss) but it's not enuf, as he has company lawer and it's just not enuf02:29
freemangordonthe fuck, is down :(02:29
Estel_ZogG, not true that it isn;'t enough02:30
Estel_if You have evidence that he contacted new boss, sent letters etc, it is enough02:30
Estel_and corporate lawyer doesn't have anything to do02:30
ZogG_laptopEstel_: it logically enuf, but we are not EU or USA.02:30
Estel_if he was so stupid to actually try to enforce illegal part of contract02:30
Estel_which country?02:31
ZogG_laptopa lot do like that02:31
Estel_well, this changes many things02:31
ZogG_laptopand there few cases02:31
ZogG_laptopbut it was when they got job.02:31
Estel_well, unless enough people will do, or even prepare a class lawsuit...02:31
Estel_I would try anywayh, jsut to be sure that I've tried every way02:31
Estel_after that, You may burn old boss car like good punk :)02:32
ZogG_laptopworld is unfair and not always we can do something. but on other hand i did called lawyers and collected data and tried.02:32
Estel_seriously though, Israel is fucked up when it comes to executing law02:32
Estel_so I feel your pain02:32
ZogG_laptopit's wierd but he had enuf stupid cases and those we don't02:32
Estel_well, just find new job and screw that, and collect evidence, in case of troubles02:32
ZogG_laptopit's comman here that company fucks you02:32
Estel_only as long as people allow it ;)02:32
Estel_for example, it seems that i', going to sue PayPal soon02:33
ZogG_laptopand even when people sue it is so small amount that they just pay one or two from 20 and make more money02:33
Estel_maybe nto exactly sue, but make some fuss02:33
ZogG_laptopEstel_: tell me how it goes, as i'm the kind of person that always speak up and try to do what i think right, but it doesn't always go anywhere02:33
Estel_Well, as said, from what I've heard, Israel is terrible country when it comes to law and it's enforcement02:33
Estel_of course it doesn't02:34
ZogG_laptopEstel_: depends, it's just huge monopoly here and division of classes imho02:34
* Estel_ nods02:34
ZogG_laptopeven if we have few ISP i think it's like they made contract with each other and devil02:34
Estel_but You know that changes doesn't necessary need to be instant, and it all depend on people?02:35
Estel_i.e. "patience is a virtue", You can't burn out too quickly due to some fails02:35
ZogG_laptopit's only few companies here and they made a standard of maximum 1 mbit upload but they have all over israel advs of high speed with 100mbit download. but it's stupid with such upload02:35
Estel_also, it requires open mind to, as many times initial opinions on "how world is made up" doesn't necessary math wider horizont vision02:36
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i don't burn out but as my prev boss(other one ) said: "sometimes it's better to be smart than right" or "i do not play war games i can't win"02:36
Estel_I mean that when you're sure about "right and wrong" things too much, it's easy to become blind radical :)02:36
ZogG_laptopEstel_: that is true, i try to look from side. but still we are human02:37
Estel_sure thing02:37
Estel_well, anyway, I seriously feel your pain with new job, as it's real problem and for sure very irritating thing02:37
ZogG_laptopyes and it's just me starting to work in IT so no exp and now without even shitty job it hard to get to any interview02:38
Estel_and by feel Your pain i don't mean just wanting to sound ellegant, I really udnerstand how many troubles lack of work may bring. even thus many times You're such a son of a... :P02:38
Estel_try own business? even small one?02:39
ZogG_laptopand new job supposed to be the best, with low salary first but bumps in future if i work hard, friendly area (i made interview at new boss house) and they know i'm not dev and willing to teach02:39
ZogG_laptophe screwed me big02:39
Estel_Well, I have one rule - never work for someone else, as most of tyhe times, You can do same or better things and earn whole sum, not "your part" of it when working for others ;)02:39
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ZogG_laptopi'm poor student i live without parents as i moved to other country at 15. and israel is not easy on start own business thing.02:40
Estel_for sure it isn't02:40
Estel_never though about moving somewhere else?02:40
ZogG_laptopi'm ok to work for somebody if it's working with somebody if you part of company and not a slave02:40
Estel_but, as for own "business", it's rather about idea and willing to hard work, than money at start (most of the times)02:40
Estel_and even more, about courage to try02:40
ZogG_laptopEstel_: not really as i'm negative person and think world is shitty in general02:41
Estel_well, being negative doesn't help02:41
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ZogG_laptopi had idea worth it, but then it turns out not being worth and i had not enuf resources. btw it was related to NFC pay system =)02:41
Estel_especially, that thinking so, no matter if You admit it or not, it ends up with "world is <blablabla> but I'm the one who is OK"02:41
freemangordonWTF?!? KPS .15 is listed in packges web iface but .deb is missing from the repo.02:41
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freemangordonmaemo-extras is FUBAR :(02:42
Estel_freemangordon, told You that some weeks ago02:42
Estel_and agfain, few mdays ago02:42
Estel_kernel-power-settings .15 was there, and I have it installed in one device, but then, it got manually removed by X-Faqde02:42
Estel_see logs02:42
Estel_"removed by Niels Breet" or stmh like that02:43
Estel_wait, i'll check sources02:43
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freemangordonbut why?02:43
ZogG_laptopEstel_: i don't say i'm ok. and i try to change things i can. but i can't force others.02:43
Estel_ZogG, I know, but if you're negative about world, it doesn't matter if you admit it or notr - most of the times it mean that, without realising it, you think you're "better"02:44
Estel_freemangordon, no idea, thatt why I've asked few days ago02:44
Estel_I though somet5hing was fubar and Pali asked through Council02:44
Estel_but now I doubt that02:44
ZogG_laptopEstel_: like i never throw trash at street but i can't force others02:44
Estel_kernel-power-settings is possibly only one package that lives only in testing and extras, without -devel package02:44
ZogG_laptopEstel_: no, the problem that we are part of it stupidity02:44
freemangordonEstel_: what? why is that?02:45
Estel_but this way you're sub-consciously accusing others :)02:45
ZogG_laptoplike all apple sue against samsung02:45
Estel_freemangordon, last time I checked, due to -devel kps .15 being removed...02:45
Estel_it was living only in -testing and -extras as kps .1402:45
freemangordonEstel_: do you have the .deb somewhere?02:45
Estel_no, just installed on my mother's device :(02:45
freemangordonyeah, I saw that, I am wondering why.02:45
Estel_no freaking idea, ask the council for assistance ;)02:46
Estel_if it's installed, .deb isn't sitting anywhere, I suppose?02:46
ZogG_laptopEstel_: in russian there is tax for movie company on any harddrive and media storage. as you can use it for pirating =)02:46
ZogG_laptopliek ou pay extra just co u have hd in laptop02:46
freemangordonit should be in /var/lib/apt-cache ;)02:46
Estel_russia is different beast02:46
ZogG_laptopand you may use it to storage their movies =)02:46
Estel_freemangordon, would check it, but it's little to late to call mother and ask for turning N900 on02:47
ZogG_laptopEstel_: there are enuf in all countries =)02:47
freemangordonanyway, i'll pull the repo and build it by myself02:47
Estel_(I have x11vnc access)02:47
freemangordonEstel_: don;t do it, i'll find it somewhere else02:47
Estel_freemangordon, nice02:47
Estel_ok :)02:47
Estel_maybe try uploading to -devel, LOL02:47
Estel_and surely ask Council to contact X-Fade and ask wtf02:48
freemangordoni'll ask Pali first02:48
Estel_sure, but I bet my left shyoe he doesn't have a clue about wtf02:48
Estel_he would do something about it those 3 weeks or so02:48
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ZogG_laptopok i had to go to sleep like few hours ago02:50
qwazix_900freemangordon: fcamera from devel works fine02:51
freemangordonyeah, i knew it :D02:51
Estel_bb ZogG02:52
qwazix_900should I try lowlight or it's all in the driver version?02:52
Estel_freemangordon, while pestering Council aboujt kps wtf, maybe suggest them to promote fcam drivers too? or at least add it to list of packages lacking maintainer?02:52
freemangordonqwazix_900: NFC, never used fcamera02:52
Estel_ivgalvez was responsible for fixing repositoriers project, and he is sane guy02:52
Estel_qwazix, all in driver02:53
freemangordonhe is still on vacation AFAIK02:53
Estel_but be sure to have lowlight from devel too02:53
Estel_freemangordon, I see02:53
qwazix_900Estel_: that's what I thought02:53
freemangordonqwazix_900: well, if you have time and will, try it, why not02:53
Estel_freemangordon, for some reasons I don't understand, fcam still makes RAW photos better than nicolai cam02:54
Estel_probably due to driver implementation02:54
freemangordonEstel_: driver ;)02:54
Estel_of course it lacks many great things from nicolai's cam02:54
Estel_sure, but raw should be raw :P02:54
Estel_it's, msot of the times, about soft sharpness (hoever it sounds) - I understand that jpg conversion probably add some filter that try to make photo sharper and destroy details, but raw should be comparable02:55
freemangordon[2012-07-16 22:02:01] Processing package kernel-power-settings 0.15. Uploader: pali, builder: builder202:55
freemangordon[2012-07-16 22:02:04] REJECTED: The same or newer version (kernel-power-settings 0.15) is already in extras-devel02:55
Estel_well, maybe it was at this time02:55
Estel_got deleted later02:55
Estel_manually, not by system02:56
freemangordonbut it exists in web interface02:56
Estel_WTF jumped into X-Fade head to delete it manually?02:56
Estel_oh damn02:56
Estel_but even in web interface have event of package being removed02:57
Estel_it looks more like "history"02:57
freemangordonyes, but you can't upload the same version again, one need to bump it02:57
qwazix_900lowlight works fine. I keep getting impressed by that app, it makes the best low light photos on any phone I've yused, ever (don't know about 808)02:58
Estel_so let it be kps .1602:58
freemangordonwill talk to Pali tomorrow02:58
Estel_and kick niels ass, if he really did it :P02:58
Estel_but I suspect some missunderstanding or even someone else using his credentials02:58
freemangordonI think it was Pali to rewuest it, for some reason02:58
freemangordonbut I will ask him02:58
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Estel_so, it's better to wait with installing thumb for new kps, or?02:59
Estel_wait, i'm talking BA02:59
Estel_BS even02:59
Estel_using kp51r1 I can use kps 14, I think02:59
Estel_which still provides thumb02:59
freemangordonyes, ;)02:59
Estel_this dual kernel thing is a madness03:00
Estel_it's liker living with one woman mon-friday and another one in weekend03:00
Estel_nopt that I have personal experiences on that matter *cough*03:00
FIQ|n900you know what is madness?03:01
FIQ|n900being stinged by these wasps THREE NIGHTS A ROW :<03:01
Estel_sorry, couldn't stop myself03:01
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Estel_BTW, freemangordon, you know that i'03:03
FIQ|n900"common wasp" i believe03:03
Estel_I'm stubbron one and I always installed kernel through fapman?:P03:03
Estel_incl. flasher, I mean03:03
Estel_and CSSU03:03
freemangordonEstel_: if you have KP51 already installed, then there ahould be no problem03:03
Estel_despite common warnings, it always works great03:03
Estel_but even with need of flashing kernel-cssu3 (not in my case) why fapman should have problems?03:04
freemangordonI just overlooked that you have it already03:04
Estel_it's damn apt-get and apt-cache frontend03:04
freemangordonEstel_: NFC, but apt-get didn't manage to do it03:04
FIQ|n900i.e. not mosquitos03:04
FIQ|n900mosquitos are fine, they don't hurt03:04
freemangordonwhile HAM worked03:04
Estel_0_o 203:05
Estel_any errors?03:05
FIQ|n900they're just annoying03:05
Estel_wasps, lol? why they sting you during night?03:05
Estel_they should sleep03:05
Estel_doesn't see during night03:05
FIQ|n900indeed :(03:05
Estel_maybe light in house atracted them?03:06
Estel_mosquiteira (net on window anti-mosquitos) should prevent wasps too03:06
Estel_are they stinging You during sleep?03:06
qwazix_900Estel_, freemangordon: I always pinned apt to prefer pps from testing, so I doubt I ever installed fcam from devel unless testing one explicitly says it can't work with stock kernel, and I didn't have any problems with KP46-5003:06
Estel_qwazix, why so? manyprograms in testing are left with serious problems03:07
FIQ|n900Estel_: one time, the other times I hadn't begun sleeping yet (but in bed)03:07
Estel_horror, you could as good swallow them, and get stinged in throat03:07
FIQ|n900sounds fun03:08
Estel_no idea WTF with those night swap wasps, but I would install mosquitieras on windows asap03:08
FIQ|n900and deadly03:08
Estel_it's real threat03:08
FIQ|n900Well, I don't live here usually03:08
FIQ|n900or i would have done that way ago03:08
Estel_without anyone nearby knowing WTF and giving You ice block to swallow immediately (and calling hospital) it';s very deadly03:08
Estel_during sleep, natural action when some insect is walking near ones mouth is to swallow it (seriously)03:09
Estel_wasn't a big problem, as wasp and bees slep during nights, so stings in throat were most of the times result of wasp jumping into glass of juice during day03:10
Estel_and someone drinking them with it03:10
FIQ|n900at least I don't have to deal with them when I'm home... just here03:10
Estel_good mosquito repellent (one that you put into mains) should repel wasps too03:10
ShadowJKhow do you know it's wasp03:10
Estel_take care, and in case of troubles, bon apetit03:10
ShadowJKI have an electric mosquito repelling device too, that uses exchangeable pads. It kills mosquitos and flies (flies die slowly), wasps don't die but they atleast stay away03:11
qwazix_900Estel_: just so I can vote apps. I am sure apps are in testing except if I explicitly installed from devel03:11
FIQ|n900ShadowJK: because I know how they feel03:11
qwazix_900or they don't exist in testing at all so I can't vote anyway03:12
ShadowJKI've seen people have reactors to mosquitos that look similar to when I got stung by a wasp03:12
Estel_ShadowJK, but wasps leaves sting03:13
ShadowJKI thought htat was bumblebees03:13
Estel_I thought about this03:13
Estel_aka "common wasp"03:13
DocScrutinizer05wait WUT? kp-settings got removed from repo? \o/ maybe x-fade finally concluded OC in fact *is* deliberate damage of device?03:14
Estel_bumblebee - erm?03:14
Estel_don't think so, DocScrutinizer, this view on it seems to be defeated by common practice through years ;)03:15
Estel_manye people have device overclocked for 2-3 years now, without slightest ill sympthoms03:15
qwazix_900Is there a shortcut to force fullscreen on maemo?03:16
qwazix_900On any app?03:16
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DocScrutinizer05on (my) xchat there's ctrl-enter03:17
DocScrutinizer05(manye people...) *some* people though have evidently fried their device by OC - with as much evidence of relation as you possibly get03:18
qwazix_900DocScrutinizer: nice, but it would be nice to have a universal one like on Diablo, maybe sending that specific keycode still works03:20
DocScrutinizer05hmm, maybe03:21
qwazix_900I'll try to find something that reads keycodes tomorrow. Bye now, I'm off to sleep03:22
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, I have yet to see ONE report of device fried by oc, that isn't msot likelyu related to other things03:27
Estel_qwazix, sure, there is03:27
Estel_wait a second03:27
freemangordonWTF? /lib/modules/current points to /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap103:28
Estel_qwazix, m:0x4 + c:6503:28
Estel_fullscreen in any fremantle program03:28
Estel_freemangordon, huh?03:28
freemangordonyes, NFC why03:29
Estel_FIQ, wikipedia says that common wasp isn't attracted by light, only hornets are. |I don't know, maybe Your wasps mutated03:29
Estel_in kernel-cssu3?03:29
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freemangordonEstel_: hmm, seems like kernel-power uninstaller restored that to stock03:40
Estel_and kernel-cssu3 haven't restored it back to proper one?03:41
freemangordoni uninstall KP after installing KCSSU03:41
freemangordonso it didn't have a chance03:41
freemangordonon my devel device it is OK03:41
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bindican I use my n900 to do a 24/7 stream of the camera?03:42
DocScrutinizer05sure, why not?03:46
DocScrutinizer05(<Estel_> DocScrutinizer, I have yet to see ONE report ...) see my signature at tmo03:54
Estel_seen that, and this report is quite doubtful03:54
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: the true problem is "most likely related to other things" is usually a very biased PoV03:54
Estel_it could as good originate from any other malfunction. I don't need "direct proof" as it's impossible, but this one is as good as any other cause03:55
Estel_I look at this without bias, and from my PoV, most "claims" about overclocking damage are result of bias03:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: The same for "for sure it is because of OC"03:55
Estel_most of the times, when somethings malfunction, first thoughts of some people is "overclocking?"03:55
DocScrutinizer05you're arguing like German Work injury insurance: "please deliver EVIDENCE that your lung cancer been caused by asbestos"03:56
Estel_I'm just investigating every possible claim of damage by Oc out of curiosity, and I don't like "absolute proofs", but honestly, none claim I've seen had even slightly higher probability of being cause by OC, that from any other malfunction03:56
Estel_DocScrutinizer, hey, I'm not the one that request evidence of compliance by running next kernelk on stock modules :P03:56
Estel_I'm really trying to be objective here03:56
Estel_it's not about definite evidence, it's about probability03:57
Estel_in my book, probability of those few claims of OC damage to be really caused by Oc is quite low03:57
DocScrutinizer05aaah yes, you're so objective you even mix topics just for polemic purpose03:57
Estel_I'm just not allowing You to accuse me of being "hard-proofs-only" biased :P03:58
Estel_cmon, does this:03:58
Estel_This morning, after charging overnight, my N900 decided to reboot itself.. All went downhill from here - insane stability issues - reboots,freezes etc etc... At some point it even stopped responding at all - it could load up to Nokia screen and then reboot into a endless reboot-cycle. I was really hoping this to be a software issue so I reflashed the device with PR 1.3, but sadly the problems persist... Phone keeps rebooting randomly either whi03:58
Estel_le loading up, being on standby on desktop or while loading something. The saddest part of all is that warranty expired _4_ days ago03:58
Estel_Phone was running on 950mhz ideal with swappolube on proposed settings.03:58
Estel_At the moment I am trying to get a lucky stability window and copy everything from EMMC so I can do a complete reflash, but I really doubt that will work.03:58
Estel_Any suggestions on how to fix this, or at least what MIGHT have caused this would be greatly appreciated.03:58
Estel_damn paste03:58
Estel_I meant:03:59
Estel_...really deserves being put into signature as proof for Oc damage?03:59
Estel_This guy is not only guessworking, but probably, doing it wrong03:59
Estel_one day his N900 works like a charm, and next day, some hardware malkfunction makes it collapse to 0 within few hours? C'mon03:59
Estel_electromigration works a little differently, AFAIK03:59
Estel_not to mention that he was using idiotic 950 frequency, but that's not the point03:59
DocScrutinizer05well, would that story of the dude who OCed his device on handbrake transcoding a video and made his battery go boom by overtemperature in direct consequence, would that maybe convince you? I guess not even that is any more likely related to OC than to any other cause for you04:00
Estel_even more, it looks like eMMC failing04:00
Estel_I've seen things like that, for people using swap on eMMC04:00
Estel_/dev/mmcblk0* becomes visible and not, appearing and disappearing when it wants04:01
Estel_You may imagine such results by sudden disappearing of opt and swap ;)04:01
Estel_DocScrutinizer, exploding battery as a result of OC? c'mon...04:01
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Estel_I'm sure you know how much hoax it is04:01
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Estel_if battery exploded, it was huge malfunction in battery (and it's safety pcb)04:02
Estel_it doesn't have a rats shit to do with OC, seriously. Not that I advocate Oc'ing to insane numbers jsut to do some single task04:02
FIQ|n900flames arriving in 3... 2... 1...04:02
FIQ|n900I think it's reasonable that it was due to OC04:02
Estel_this one really made me LOL04:03
DocScrutinizer05that's your problem04:03
Estel_even the claim from joerg's signature is more proper than claiming OC caused battery explosion04:03
DocScrutinizer05you're so biased you can't even detect the bias04:03
Estel_DocScrutinizer, during heavy usage, my battery inside N900 delivers more than 1A of current04:03
Estel_no, we're talking about technical arguments04:03
Estel_You try to tell me thatr OC stress battery more than any other kind of heavy usage? really?04:03
freemangordonjust try 3G04:04
Estel_overtemperature in battery can be caused only by bad battery, or battery being treaten VERY bad04:04
DocScrutinizer05I told you battery malfunction happended due to overtemperature of whole device caused by OC04:04
Estel_I can now Oc to fuckin insane idiotic 1150 and my battery wil ldeliver less current, than during heavy activity onj stock04:04
Estel_and even literally frying CPU wouldn't heat battery to temperature of explosioin04:04
* ShadowJK thought temperature was unrelated to oc04:04
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: how that could happen having in mind BME does an emergency shoutdown above certain temp?04:05
Estel_this dude just got bad battery, and durring transcodinmg video - no matter if Oc or not - heavy current sucked up made it BOOm04:05
Estel_ShadowJK, because it is04:05
FIQ|n900oh, and also04:05
ShadowJKThat it's mostly accelerating the decay of the CPU04:05
Estel_I'm trying to be gentle and polite, but battery exploding due to Oc is so idiotic, that I'm stunned DocScrutinizer brings it as argument, because he is, in fact, very experienced in topic of batteries (and OC phenomenas, like electro-migration, too)04:05
FIQ|n900my battery becomes really hot when using mobilehotspot (600mhz clockspeed)04:05
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: mhm, and all this is your absolutely confirmed and checked result of scientific investigation of the issue?04:06
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I may be wrong, but I actually don't belive that You belive battery exploding due to OC04:06
Estel_DocScrutinizer, don't play with me like that, You neither have any scientific data, but from what You know about batteries and OC04:06
Estel_You know that it can't make battery BOOM as much as I know04:06
freemangordonFIQ|n900: it is because there is no WiFi power management in adhoc mode04:07
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: >70°C is really dangerous04:07
Estel_thewre are two things that Oc may do to battery - little more current draw...04:07
FIQ|n900oh, that isn't reached04:07
Estel_which shouldn't make battery BOOM, and batteries that do BOOm, would do it also by other means of current draw, like ad-hox or 3G...04:07
FIQ|n900it's hot, not *that* hot i believe04:07
Estel_and tem,perature04:07
Estel_here also this argument fails to deliver, as even insane Oc can't heat freaking battery cell to high temperature04:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: are you sure BL5J could explode at all? I think there is a valve on it.04:08
Estel_now, what may heat battery? broken battery, that have high internal resistance04:08
Estel_and other flaws04:08
Estel_= it died due to high current during transcoding, be it Oc or not04:08
Estel_freemangordon, normally it couldn't, I tried very hard to make it boom, really04:08
Estel_but flawed battery could04:08
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: I might see wrong (I can't see too well) but the top of my batteries (the top as in where the nokia logo is), the shell seems minor deformed, do I see things or can that actually happen?04:08
Estel_if it is deformed to outer side, aka becoming "ticker", it mayh be true04:09
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: it's annoying to discuss with you, since when something doesn't please you, you start to use ever mor eweird assumptions as facts and calling others silly when they explain to you the seventh time that you are on a completely wrong path with your logic04:09
Estel_now, DocScrutinizer, have I forget about some possiuble cause of battery exploding? Other than current draw and temperature (BTYW, the latter coming from the first)04:09
ShadowJKfreemangordon, LiPo batteries don't explode, the pouch is soft enough that it punctures before that. But what happens is called "venting with flame", which to most people isn't that different from "explode" :-)04:09
Estel_well, i'm asking you politely04:09
Estel_ShadowJK, we have LiIon, not LiPo?04:10
ShadowJKEstel_, it's not round, it's not made out of metal, it's LiPo04:10
Estel_but it is made of metal!04:10
Estel_yes, really04:10
FIQ|n900Estel_: source?04:10
DocScrutinizer05BL-5J is LiIon, not LiPo04:10
ShadowJKWell the pouch is probably slightly metallic04:10
Estel_FIQ|n900, go and disassemble one :P04:10
Estel_ShadowJK, really, I also though for ages that it is LiPo04:11
Estel_actually, few months ago someone englightened me04:11
ShadowJKBut it's constructed as a LiPo surrounded by a plastic shell04:11
Estel_and indeed, it is LiIon, not LiPo04:11
Estel_ShadowJK, negative, it is metallic04:11
Estel_shell that is + and small area that is -04:11
FIQ|n900about the minor deformation of the shell04:11
Estel_directly under cell wall, there is Li04:11
FIQ|n900is this a bad thing?04:11
Estel_in fact, it's better04:11
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: how exactly deformed?04:11
FIQ|n900ah, so I shouldn't care?04:12
ShadowJKEstel_, I don't know of anyone who can make rectangular non-LiPo batteries04:12
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: well...04:12
FIQ|n900let me seee04:12
Estel_ShadowJK, now I'm confused, but this battery really have HARD metal wall04:12
Estel_and nothinb under it04:12
Estel_no plastic, etc04:12
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: the top (at the logo) part of the shell is a bit thicker than everything else04:12
FIQ|n900only barely visible, but yeah04:13
ShadowJKEstel_, well the major difference is in whether the shell is exerting pressure onto the contents of the battery or not04:13
Estel_DocScrutinizer, not trying to haste, but I've asked You about any other possible cause of battery going BOOM other than current draw and temperature (the latter may result from the first, BTW)04:13
ShadowJKWith LiPo construction the internals don't need to be pressurized04:13
Estel_ShadowJK, N900's battery surely do pressure04:13
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: watch it. If it grows you should dispose your battery04:13
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: mkay04:13
Estel_FIQ|n900, exactly. growing means that gas is accumulating inside04:14
FIQ|n900ty for enlightement04:14
freemangordonShadowJK: every source over inet says it is Li-Ion04:14
Estel_initially, Ik though that it was wrong, as LiPo is a kind of Li-Ion, but after "collecting evidence" it seems it is LiIon indeed04:14
ShadowJKfreemangordon, LiPo is also Li-Ion :P04:14
Estel_ShadowJK, but You know what he mean :P04:15
ShadowJKRegular Li-Ion is heavier for smaller formfactors because it needs to have a rigid case that exerts mechanical pressure onto the inside of the battery04:15
Estel_DocScrutinizer, 3th attempt - do You think about any other cause of battery exploding that overcurrent or overtemeprature? Or you insist on telling us that overclocking is causing 2A current draw, or generating enough energy to heat big LiIon cell to explosion?04:16
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: you talked yourself into a frency and assumed many incorrect and/or unrelated things, and now you're asking me to answer a question that you will use to prove I'm telling bullshit (with the one sentence I posted that not even been a statement but rather a hearsay witha question), no matter how I answer your question. I'm not going into same trap on arguing with you for the dozen+1th time04:16
freemangordonnight guys04:17
Estel_night ;)04:17
Estel_DocScrutinizer, you're making things up. Indeed, I don't belive that it caused battery to explode, but I'm willing to discuss it, as You may know something about battery or Oc, that I don't04:17
Estel_now, when asked for logical analysis, You tell me that You won't cause I'm bad ;)04:18
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: what will happen if I ignore it (i.e. if I don't notice change while it indeed does change)?04:18
Estel_initially, I really though that You don't belive what You're saying (abot battery exploding due to OC), but you insist that You do, so I immediatelly swapped to serious analysis04:18
DocScrutinizer05see? you don't need my answer to accuse me of 'making up things'. So please don't pester me and just go on with your crusade, while I yawn04:18
Estel_no, I say that ?you're making things up about me :)04:18
Estel_anjd why You won't do logical analysis04:19
Estel_I would *really* like to know why someone as experienced with batteries as You may belive this explosion due to OC - no irony here04:19
Estel_I'm honestly curious04:19
ShadowJKMostly I've only seen "LiPo" used in marketing in cellphone industry because at one time peopel thought LiPo was better than classic Li-Ion, and also at one time a fully polymer battery was expected to be superior, but that technology turned out to suck and never materialized, so in the end what's left is the way the batteries are constructed and held together, while the chemistry remains identical04:19
Estel_if You don't want to talk about it, it's fine04:19
DocScrutinizer05if you're really so numb to not have noticed: I stated 3 times already that the battery gone malfunction due to general overtemp of whole device04:20
Estel_...but, in such case, don't get anrgy when people will still insist that battery exploding due to Oc is bullshit. We're grown up, and things without arguments are not going to be took into account04:20
Estel_OK, overtemp04:20
Estel_so we're at point 2 - do you think that Oc can cause such type of overtemp?04:21
Estel_if not, what else can cause it? is it related to Oc, or not?04:21
Estel_I'm really doing unbiased logical analysis04:21
DocScrutinizer05I already told you I won't fall for your trolling trap again04:21
Estel_for example, in my book, the thing that can heat up most in N900 i9s battery cell itself, due to internal resistance. But I may be wrong04:21
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not asking anymore "ho high2 when you order me to jump04:22
Estel_well, Your approach is rather about "I won't talk about it, cause I can't prove my thesis", but if it's what you feel fancy, it's ok.04:22
FIQ|n900ok I assume nothing too particular will happen as I was ignoreg so I guess I'll go and sleep04:22
Estel_I agree with overtemperature argument, but from ym experience, even running insanely idiotic high speeds doesn't create any ammount of heat, that could change temperature of battery cell04:23
Estel_of such size04:23
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: sorry04:23
infobotFIQ|n900 meant: ok I assume nothing too particular will happen as I was ignored so I guess I'll go and sleep04:23
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: i'd not be too concerned04:23
Estel_IMO, the thing that creates msot heat is battery itself, during heavy current draw and high internal resistance04:23
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: ty for the answer04:23
FIQ|n900but i'll go to sleep anyway :p04:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer, if You know toher things that I don't, that could create such heat, tell us. If not, just stfu and don't accuse me of trolling or something like that - we're trying to have civilized, merit discussion04:23
Estel_n8, FIQ|n90004:24
FIQ|n900night everyone and Estel_04:24
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DocScrutinizer05general advice: somebody stating "I know A, and B, do you know of any C that applies as well?" doesn't necessarily tell correct facts about A and B. And nobody else arguing with him about A and B might have several causes, one of them being mere boredom and too amny As and Bs to correct to even ponder starting at that daunting task. Anyway application of simple primary school physics laws will teach you for example that most heat will04:32
DocScrutinizer05be generated where the product from formula P=I*U=I^2*R is highest. When I is same for two systems and one has some 3.5V across it while the other has a internal resistance of maybe 0.2Ohm (both systems at a I of 1...3A), you can easily tell which of both systems is the one that creates most heat04:32
Estel_DocScrutinizer, sure, that is why I've asked for Your opinion on A and B first.04:35
Estel_while general rule about heat indeed apply, from my short calculations, still the cell is thing generating most energy (heat)04:35
Estel_and SoC, by any means, can;t create enough energy to heat cell considerably, not to mention heating it to explosion04:36
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Estel_basically, my argument about that, was about *current* pulled from malfunctioning battery resulted in much heat and BOOM. But, even more current could be easily achievable by other means than oc, namely wifi ad-hoc, 3G, or any other04:37
Estel_f;ashlight :P04:37
Estel_if You have points that I've forget about, I'm all for reading about it - no irony intended in any part04:37
Estel_BTw, I even provided example of ym device using more than 1A of current, when on ad-hoc wifi, GPs, and some other things.04:38
* ShadowJK 's personal record is around 1.2A04:39
Estel_I'm absolutely sure that it's much more dangerous for malfunctioning battery, than any current generated by OC04:43
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DocScrutinizer05I'm absolutely sure I don't feel like discussing with people about topics they state they are absolutely sure about04:53
DocScrutinizer05esp whin - as icing on the cake - the things they state they are sure about are largely unrelated to the originally discussed topic04:54
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Estel_You're avoiding discussion again - well, fine.04:57
Estel_Considering this, i'll keep my opinion that You don't belive overclocking as cause for battery explosion Yourself. And You call me biased?04:57
Estel_from "other barrel of vine", anyone here remember command to nuke tracker database and force re-generating it?04:58
ShadowJKtracker-proecesses -r04:59
Estel_thanks a lot05:00
Estel_ShadowJK, strange, my 3Ah battery is empty (3.2), and I've stopped BME, yet it still faisl to charge with 125005:03
Estel_(charges with ~950, assuming 400 idle device power draw :D)05:04
Estel_(while it is now very small one, in reality)05:04
Estel_on other things,m i've noticed, that with BME stopped, I can connected device to Pc and get into mass storage mode without problems. I wonder, if then, using modified version of - that never charges with more than 500 mA - would work OK?05:04
Estel_file_storage modules already did negotiation with USB host, so 500 mA should be available, yep?05:05
ShadowJKwhat's rate with screen off?05:05
Estel_CH is 125005:05
ShadowJK500 etc isn't really enforced by hosts05:05
Estel_estimated system use is bullshit -26005:05
ShadowJKkp or pr1.3 kernel?05:06
ShadowJKweird :)05:06
Estel_idle power draw is, as said, normally about ~8mA05:06
Estel_i though it was BME fail, but now I do it without BME05:06
Estel_and rate is same, real one around ~100005:06
Estel_Ps is capable of more for sure05:07
Estel_same for cable and connection, USB port is in top state05:07
Estel_I'll check if RATE reported by is same as by bq27200.sh05:08
ShadowJK  i2cset -y -m 0xFF 2 0x6b 0x04 0x7005:08
ShadowJKgot that? first screen of script05:08
Estel_as for 500 mA, sure it isn't, but when device will try to draw less than 500 mA from Pc usb port, it shouldn't complain05:08
DocScrutinizer05the *only* proper way to evaluate system power is: kill; sleep 10; a=bq27200-get-capacity; sleep 60; b=bq27200-get-capacity; echo "average system power consumption during last 60s: $(( (b - a) * 60 ))05:08
Estel_even 0x7105:08
Estel_as I('ve decided to take 100 mA as end charging threshold05:08
ShadowJKWell yeah, but at empty battery and 1250 configured rate he should see more than 900 :P05:09
Estel_DocScrutinizer, why, our chip got very bdecent real-time current monitor, that can be sued for measuring battery capacities too05:09
Estel_ShadowJK, exactly05:09
Estel_well, at least without bme, RATe is same as reported by and charge21.sh05:10
Estel_sued :P used even05:10
Estel_ShadowJK, 'stop bme' is enough to stop it good way, yep?05:10
Estel_as a root, of course05:11
Estel_then I have no freakin idea05:11
ShadowJKstop it before starting charge script, of course05:11
* DocScrutinizer05 is trying to practice Estel_ style a bit...05:11
Estel_poof course05:11
Estel_DocScrutinizer, you're going to exchange letters now?:)05:11
DocScrutinizer05but, but, cows *do* eat bq27200 chips!05:12
ShadowJKsure, if you serve them chips05:12
ShadowJKespecially with molasses on top05:12
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, no need to be bitter about our battery-exploding-due-to-Oc discussion :P05:12
Estel_You must admit that in spite of such nonsense presented, I was very polite :)05:13
ShadowJKwould be interesting to run your battery through SpeedEvil's ohm script05:13
Estel_My cow preffer onion flavour chips05:13
Estel_ShadowJK, sure, but I don't remember where it is and how to use it?05:13
ShadowJKbut on the other hand, a 3Ah battery should have awesomely low internal resistance05:13
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Estel_ah, also - few users requested that - you don't mind if I clean script (to use i2c-tools package, not stand alone i2cget) and add it to next version of bnf from repos?05:14
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ShadowJKSignificantly lower than the nokia bl-5j in my spare n90005:14
Estel_ShadowJK, exactly (resistance), I would like to prove it experimentally05:14
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Estel_even lower than japod, and any single-cell05:14
ShadowJKwhat's "bnf"?05:14
ShadowJKbut sure go ahead05:15
* ShadowJK has a version somewhere that looks for local i2c-tools then systemwide05:15
ShadowJKor then I lost that version05:15
Estel_before You ask, you're credited for scripts, ideas, etc, all over the place :P05:15
* ShadowJK shrugs05:15
Estel_I know you wouldn't ask, but indeed I've credited You :)05:15
Estel_it was script that pop-up banner with all encesssary info, I used it with shortcutd to have it on long-press of camera button05:16
Estel_even when inside full-screen aps etc05:16
Estel_ncie thing to measure current current used by some games and so goes on05:16
Estel_(or easy debian without leaving LXDE)05:16
Estel_I sued it for ages, finally mvoed my ass, tuned it, and packaged05:16
Estel_suprisingly, it got very wamr reception for such small script05:17
Estel_ShadowJK, fuck the duck! This charging thing may be mistake05:17
Estel_I just have nuked tracker databvase, odds are that it's rebuilding05:17
Estel_thus really eating 300-400 mA05:18
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Estel_checking it (conky jsut freaked out)05:18
Estel_hm, looks like all idle05:18
DocScrutinizer05kill; sleep 10: bq27k-detail; charge.sh05:18
Estel_sure, I can, but what use for it?05:19
Estel_what should I check in details?05:19
ShadowJKkilling doesnt stop charging05:19
ShadowJKnot immediately atleast05:19
Estel_so sleep 20?05:19
ShadowJKyou could unplug charger and check rate05:19
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: ouch, you ought add a trap05:20
DocScrutinizer05see booston05:20
ShadowJKkilling script results in approximately 30s the yellow led will come on steady indicating 100mA emergency charge05:20
Estel_rate of idlee device with screen off and charge running is 20 mA05:20
Estel_did as you suggested, ujnplugged cable05:21
Estel_20ma used, of course05:21
Estel_not provided :P05:21
ShadowJKYeah so I'd try stepping down charge rate (3 places to change in script) and see if sys makes more sense05:21
Estel_so out of ideas again05:21
Estel_for sure it will, as RATE was ok, and sys is charge - Rate05:21
Estel_it's just that charge assume I'm charging on 1250, and for some twisted reason, i'm charging on ~1A only05:22
ShadowJKWell it only assumes charge is 125005:22
Estel_for sure it isn't stock 950, cause I remember it to be less (really no more than 950) and this for sure is more than 95005:22
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Estel_lol, even better05:23
ShadowJKthere are two possible reasons, the charger (chip, psu) isnt providing configured 1250 @ 4.2V, or, you're losing more voltage between charging chip and battery than what is typical for the N900s I've used05:23
Estel_current with on and no cable, with screen off, is -4ma, somnetimes -7 mA05:23
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DocScrutinizer05sounds about right05:24
DocScrutinizer05sometimes even 25mA05:24
ShadowJKSo I'd start by reducing requested charge rate (3 places to change in the script), and observing whether figured start making sense05:25
Estel_when i left device for a while, it was stable 4-7 mA. So no tracker rebuilding in background05:25
Estel_ShadowJK, OK05:25
Estel_but I'm  sure (:P) that it will make sense as long as I provide 1A requested or less05:25
ShadowJKif they don't make sense, I'd then leave it at 550mA requested charge, and increase the CR variable until reported sys: is at 20-50mA range05:25
DocScrutinizer05since bq27200 always reports current evrg during *last* sampling window, which obviously never is a window when the bq27200 script was _running_ (rather than sleeping) - unless you set loop 505:26
Estel_ShadowJK, confirmed, at 950 requested it makes sense05:26
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I test it with loop 505:27
DocScrutinizer05then you should see more than avrg 4...7mA05:27
Estel_ShadowJK, at 1050 requested it is slightly off. For some reason, my charging goes on 1A and no more05:27
DocScrutinizer05I see 26mA on loop 505:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer, i told ya that my device is power-savbing :)05:27
Estel_causeYou don't use kernel-power?:P05:27
Estel_no widgets here, that could refresh when shouldn't05:28
Estel_powertop when idle reports 97% time in C405:28
Estel_DocScrutinizer, could You test with powertop? basic 30 secs test05:28
Estel_it sleeps for 15 seconds or so, then do 30 sec test05:28
DocScrutinizer05test what?05:28
Estel_of course pwoertop test fluctuate, but usually it's around 94-98% time in C405:28
Estel_time spent by CPu in C4, obviously05:28
Estel_if You have 26 mA, I suspect something waking up CPu more than necessary05:29
Estel_not very much, but a little05:29
LaoLang_coolhello, how to create a bluetooth connection?05:29
Estel_for example - it is unrelated to Your case - I had once Easy Debian's xbindkeys runnign always, which turned out to generate 300 more wakeups than necessary05:29
ShadowJKsigh, of course day after my ups died, a thunderstorm is rolling in05:29
Estel_couldn't detect it via power usage05:29
Estel_ShadowJK, heh05:29
DocScrutinizer05I see 4...7mA when doing loop 10, and 26mA when doing loop 505:29
LaoLang_coolI need to share network connection with another cell phone05:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer, hm05:30
Estel_DocScrutinizer, confirming, my mistake. It was loop 1505:30
Estel_as I modified it, earlier, to tets wioth, that during standby also reports in 1505:30
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Estel_BTw I wonder why fuckin tracker isn't rebuilding database, after I nuked it?05:31
Estel_LaoLang_cool, does the other phone support DUN?05:31
LaoLang_coolEstel_, I do not know.. the phone is palm treo 65005:31
Estel_which phone is going to provide network, and which one to leech it?05:31
LaoLang_coolEstel_, I want palm to provide the networking to n90005:32
Estel_hm, definitelly should be possible, but it's such unusual scenario, that I can't recall any easy method, sorry05:32
Estel_would require messing with... iptables? or what was it?05:33
Estel_on TMO, there is thread with bluetooth scripts to do reverse scenario05:33
Estel_maybe You could scavenge from it?05:33
Estel_there was PAN version also05:33
ShadowJKwill be harder to convince the treo to share network05:33
Estel_(personal area networking)05:34
Estel_ShadowJK, my thoughts exactly, but in fact, how to setup N900 foir leeching network over bluetooth?05:34
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: just create a proper network for it, as in "settings - networks"05:34
Estel_would require script/terminal trickery much, no fool-proof solution, afaik05:34
LaoLang_coolEstel_, oh, I'm newbie, it's out of my knowledge at current time, I should try it later when I have learned something basic05:34
Estel_LaoLang_cool,, not so newbie,m already few weeks IIRC :)05:34
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LaoLang_coolEstel_, I'm newbie on the thing I'm trying to do ;p05:35
Estel_ShadowJK, call me noon, but for now I don't even know where to start with editing what to make N900 leech net over bluetooth05:35
Estel_net access05:35
DocScrutinizer05install DUN05:36
Estel_DocScrutinizer, how You want to create network lkeeching over bluetooth with N900's settings->network?05:36
ShadowJKUsing another phone's network connectivity over bluetooth isn't something that any phone, including n900, supports. On n900 there's atleast the possibility of DIY though05:36
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I have DUN05:36
Estel_ShadowJK, sure, that's why I'm thinking about DIy solution05:36
Estel_where to start05:36
Estel_not that I need it personally, but LaoLang_cool made me curious05:36
DocScrutinizer05check how N810/diablo did it05:36
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, I can't find 'networks' under 'settings' :(05:36
Estel_LaoLang_cool, doesn't matter, as it allow WiFi and mobile networks only05:37
Estel_to be created05:37
Estel_I suppose it would need to be like with ethernet-> usb adaptor05:37
Estel_i.e. some "dummy" network05:37
Estel_that You connect to from connection manager05:37
LaoLang_coolEstel_, seems it only allows to create a wifi connection05:37
Estel_and that is in fact configured for bluetooth05:37
DocScrutinizer05it allows DUN as well, as soon as you install a proper setting05:37
DocScrutinizer05it also allows ad-hoc05:38
ShadowJKheh, lost power05:38
DocScrutinizer05and PAN05:38
Estel_hm, IIRc DUN package from repos was about sharing network to PC over dun, but...05:38
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, could You elaborate?05:38
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, this one?
DocScrutinizer05I think that one is a DUN host05:39
DocScrutinizer05no DUN client05:39
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, what the proper setting do I need to install?05:39
Estel_DocScrutinizer, where is DUN client? I can't recall any05:39
Estel_ShadowJK, because You're not using dual scud :P05:40
LaoLang_coolI can enable "Dial-up Net working" in palm treo, so I think now the only thing need to be done is at n900 side, right?05:40
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if it still works 100% same way as on N81005:42
DocScrutinizer05but method should be similar05:42
ShadowJKEstel_; no because of thunderstorm05:42
Estel_ShadowJK, lol, murphy's law and UPs thing?05:44
DocScrutinizer05ok, probably it's not enabled by default on N90005:45
DocScrutinizer05(bt DUN client)05:45
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LaoLang_coolwhat should I need to do on maemo?05:47
LaoLang_coolI'm using cssu stable05:47
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: duh!
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: I have to read up stuff like you. is a nice starting point05:51
LaoLang_coolDo I understand right? If I want to share phone 1 networking to phone 2, bluetooth dial-up networking should be on on phone1, then I need to install a dun client on phone 2, right?05:51
LaoLang_cool"DUN is the primary method for tethering to cellular devices. It is easy to set up and easy to use"05:52
DocScrutinizer05on diablo/N810 DUN (and PAN) clients worked fine05:52
DocScrutinizer05yeah, exactly05:52
LaoLang_coolI don't think it's easy to set up, I don't know where to set it up at all!05:52
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: this is from diablo ages05:53
LaoLang_coolwhere can I find a client for n900?05:53
DocScrutinizer05I bet it's already there, just not supported by the setup05:53
* ShadowJK has doubts05:53
LaoLang_coolstill no any clue...05:54
LaoLang_coolmore confused now...05:54
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ShadowJKhah, grid frequency is 50.105:55
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: wait a bit, I'm still trying to find something for you. Or better not wait and instead search on tmo and aunt google05:56
ShadowJKLaoLang_cool; it's not supported. He means that since it was supported in Maemo 4 on Nokia N800 and N810, the functionality might still be present, but disabled, on Maemo 5 N90005:56
ShadowJKSo you wouldnt find it in any menu or in the settings app05:57
DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly. I noticed it's not working anymore on N900 settings-internet as it used to on N81005:57
LaoLang_coolShadowJK, oh, so I should give up to try?05:57
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: use google!05:58
DocScrutinizer05I bet you're not the first one to try this05:58
ShadowJKLaoLang_cool; like I said earlier, it'd of course be possibly to DIY05:58
ShadowJKmaybe someone has done it before05:59
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, thanks, googling05:59
LaoLang_coolShadowJK, ok, googling :)05:59
ShadowJKbut then again, as N900 has its own cellular connectivity, there'd be few people who has a need for it?05:59
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: half of north america needs it ;-D05:59
DocScrutinizer05actually I recall some user asking similar thing just 2 weeks ago06:00
ShadowJKthunderstorm is close enough for visible lightning now06:01
ShadowJKstill no power :D06:01
DocScrutinizer05ooh, no power with 50.1Hz ? how's that?06:02
ShadowJKoh that's from a website06:03
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: seems PAN is better supported than DUN actually06:04
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: now the question is: can your BB offer PAN server?06:05
DocScrutinizer05or only DUN?06:05
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, palm is a dead phone, I don't think it support fancy feature :(06:06
DocScrutinizer05sorry I'm short of good pointers off top of my head06:07
robbiethe1st@previous comment about 50.1hz: I'll bet you that the Nokia charger for your N900 will work on just about any frequency, so long as the voltage range is right... Because it's just got a bridge rectifier->capacitor setup on the input, versus some sort of PFC circuit.06:07
DocScrutinizer05I think it's possible for sure to get DUN and/or PAN client running on N900, but I don't know how and don't know good pointer06:08
ShadowJKrobbiethe1st; that was from website, I was trying to check how widespread the outage is06:08
ShadowJKif lots of load suddenly disconnected, I would've expected the frequency would be near the upper end of the allowed range06:08
robbiethe1stBut that assumes you have something that cares about the frequency.06:09
ShadowJKalso there was a line on national grid that failed twice within 5mins, relatively close to where i am, but 20 minutes before power was lost here06:09
ShadowJKrobbiethe1st; spinning generators do, if load is lost they start spinning faster06:10
robbiethe1stNo, I mean load wise.06:11
robbiethe1stAnd, most importantly, if that increased frequency would cause any /harm/ or make anything work outside of acceptable parameters(a 3600rpm motor spinning at 3700 rpm? Likely not a problem)06:12
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: (you have something that cares...) actually every powerplant generator cares06:12
LaoLang_coolok, I give up to share palm's networking to n900.06:12
LaoLang_cooltrying to share pc networking to n900 now :)06:13
LaoLang_coolI'm on windows xp sp306:13
robbiethe1st...You don't get what I mean. The power plants do care, and will carefully control it as best they can, due to(at least in the US) it being used as a time source.06:13
LaoLang_coolI want to share the networking via usb, is it possible?06:13
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: yes06:14
robbiethe1stOn the load side, however, I'm saying there isn't a lot that cares, except for things that A, use special input circuits, or B, use it as a time source.06:14
robbiethe1stAnd our chargers are not one of those.06:14
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, thank you, reading on it06:14
ShadowJKlist of powerlines on national grid tripping has grown by 4 near where I live :D06:16
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DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: that's never been the point though06:18
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DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: ShadowJK checked for frequency of his power grid on a webpage to find if in his region there's been some sudden noticeable drop of load, which *automatically* causes increase of frequency06:19
robbiethe1stah, yeah06:19
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ShadowJKit'd have to be a pretty wide outage to affect frequency, as entire nordic region (excluding iceland etc) runs synchronous grid06:20
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ShadowJKand 50.1 is at or close to upper limit06:20
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LaoLang_coolok, I'm reading, but I don't know which part is for share networking from pc to n900, too words to hard to undsreatnd for me :(06:21
ShadowJK50.02 now06:21
LaoLang_coolI'm on windows06:21
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robbiethe1stLaoLang_cool, why not just get a $5 usb-> wifi adaptor, setup Ad-hoc network?06:22
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, I want to share pc networking to n900, not n900's to pc :)06:23
robbiethe1stYou can do Internet Connection Sharing on Windows06:23
robbiethe1stShare the connection you have otherwise /to/ the wifi ad-hoc network, and through that to the N90006:24
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, I prefer to usb wire, it's easy to find06:26
robbiethe1stMakes sense, but it's going to be harder06:27
robbiethe1stOn windows.06:27
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, thank you for the link, I can understand, what I need is just to download a packge and install it :)06:27
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, yes. DocScrutinizer05 give a link to a easy instruction :)06:28
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robbiethe1stYou need to download a package, configure it, then edit about a half-dozen files.06:29
robbiethe1stAnd edit the registry.06:29
robbiethe1stNot impossible, but it'll take you a bit of time06:29
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LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, oh, you scared me a lot!06:30
robbiethe1stThat's what that page says, anyway, and I'm sure it's correct.06:30
LaoLang_cools/you scared me a lot/you make me scared/06:30
infobotLaoLang_cool meant: robbiethe1st, oh, you make me scared!06:30
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: it's only 2 files that need edit on N90006:31
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, will try it, downloading, networking is slow :)06:32
DocScrutinizer05>> (actually MADDE for Windows is not required, but just files maemo_usbnet.inf and for installation network device Linux USB Ethernet/RNDIS Gadget)<<06:33
DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: even
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DocScrutinizer05>>on your Other Computer, open a terminal and type the following for Ubuntu; **modify appropriately for other computers**<< though06:36
DocScrutinizer05I dunno enough of windows to tell you how to transscript those 3 lines to dosbox cmd speak06:36
LaoLang_coo_DocScrutinizer05, thank you, lunch time now, will back when finish ;p06:37
DocScrutinizer05ooops, forget my last 3 posts, it's about ssh *to* N900 only06:38
ShadowJKuhhh.. so I have no power, ups is switched off without battery, but connected. Outside lit up blue, ups beeped.06:39
DocScrutinizer05doesn't help for proper internet sharing06:39
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: :-o06:40
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: took me a while to parse your post06:40
ShadowJKseems like it's going to pass within 300m06:43
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DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_coo_: actually it seems is the right for you06:45
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Estel_weuuut? whjy all the mess?06:51
Estel_LaoLang_coo_, just install QTMobileHotspot...06:52
Estel_follow it's GUI instructions on how to setup USB networking with windows...06:52
Estel_then, from windows, use it's GUI to share internet connection with USB networking06:52
Estel_on N900, provide IP of Pc with windows as gateway...06:52
Estel_and as a DNS06:52
Estel_job done06:53
* ShadowJK wonders why mobilehotspot is involved06:53
Estel_(of course, IP associated with USB networking, can be done from qtmobilehotspot IIRC06:53
Estel_ShadowJK, because it allow fool-proof usb networking setup06:53
Estel_fort someone who doesn't feel OK with editing dozens of files06:53
Estel_and o nexit, it clean it up again ;006:53
Estel_i.e. "automagically" does all steps,. that otherwise are manual (including many fail-safe solutions to clean settings in case of crash, etc)06:54
Estel_I'm not discouraging LaoLang_coo_ from messing by hand, as it's very educational, but I bet he will end without any connection at all, at the end, at least initially :P06:55
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DocScrutinizer05>>install the Mad Developer application on N900 and start it and press "Usb Networking" -> "Windows Network" -> "Close".<<07:03
DocScrutinizer05>>Press button "Edit" and enter following IP Address:, Netmask:, Peer IP: and then press "Configure" (this address will be used for the SCP client as well).<<07:04
DocScrutinizer05that's it, no messing with any file editing, no mobilehosespot07:05
Estel_well, mad developer on N900 instead of 1t mobilehotspot for common user? why so?07:08
Estel_BTW, qtmobilehotspot is based on improved code from both mobilehotspot (non qt) and mad developer ;)07:09
DocScrutinizer05>>WARNING: This software requires custom kernel!<< maybe because of that?07:12
Estel_qt mobilehotspot requires kernel-power? I msut admit I wasn't aware of that. But cmon, every normal person uses kp ;)07:13
Estel_but seriously, if it really does, for sure mad dev is fail safe solution working on stock too07:14
robbiethe1stWait, someone uses stock kernel?07:14
Estel_in any other case, I would recommend Qt mobilehotspot, as it's brillantly written, clean and well proven one07:14
Estel_robbiethe1st, You're touching delicate matters :D07:14
robbiethe1stBut, like... stock kernel is sucky.07:15
Estel_"someone" not only uses kp, but also demand ABi compatibility with it07:15
* Estel_ hides07:15
Estel_yes, it is07:15
robbiethe1stScrew that.07:15
DocScrutinizer05yeah sure, you probably would suggest to install an alternative OS to change the wallpaper. Based on the rationale that "it's brillantly written, clean and well proven one"07:20
DocScrutinizer05don't you think installing a new kernel is a bit of an overkill to make USB networking work?07:21
DocScrutinizer05and btw I'm not demanding anything like what you made up i'd do07:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm just clearly saying you shall stop trying to forcefeed custom kernels to everybody07:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer, qt mobilehotspot also have other functionality like... mobile hotspot?:P that actually requires kernel-power (as most up-to-date funcionality, anyway...)07:23
Estel_odds are like 99% that LaoLang_coo_ have kp installed, anyway07:23
Estel_if not, I admit (and did so) that mad developer may be fastewr option07:23
Estel_nevertheless, You msut understand that 99,995 of people consider kernel power and CSSU as true basics, that should be present on device of all power users07:25
Estel_(heck, even N900's bought from people who are definitelly *not* power users have KP installed, most of the times. Even for some units, that haven';t had rootsh/sudser installed!)07:25
DocScrutinizer05uhuh, please show me the poll that gave you that numbers07:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer, should I re-use Your argument, stating that "i'm not going to get caught in Your troll trap"? ;)07:26
Estel_You know reality as well as I07:26
Estel_of course everyone is free to *not* use KP07:26
Estel_as everyonme is free to *not* use any kind of root access on N90007:26
DocScrutinizer05just my reality is quite a bit different than yours, thank God for that07:26
Estel_but demanding assuming such situation from others is kinda overkill07:26
Estel_no surprise, as You're mostly active on IRC (but even here, 90% of people use KP, as you may easily guess ;) )07:27
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* DocScrutinizer05 yawns and turns away07:27
Estel_You don't have problems with considering rootsh/sudser as basic things, but You deny to acknowledge that for other people, kernel-power is in exact samed category?07:28
Estel_well, good night, then :)07:28
Estel_and no, i don't want to hear about batterioes exploding due to kp07:28
* Estel_ hides07:28
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keriogoddammit, why does HAM actually list the repos in sources.list? :(12:11
keriooh, beautiful12:14
kerioi can put my freaky repos in a different file in sources.list.d and ham will ignore them12:14
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kerioyo vi_12:20
kerioshould i enable extras and e-testing if i have -devel already enabled?12:21
vi_I do not know.12:21
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vi_How am I supposed to enjoy using my n950 when I know I cannot take it outside?  One slip and it is fucked.12:23
vi_No spares, no replacements.12:23
ruskiewth... my n900 is having weird issues... just randomly shuts down or drains power12:24
keriovi_: buy an otterbox for it! :D12:24
vi_ruskie: powertop12:24
ruskieyeah I'll check with that as soon as I can12:24
kerioruskie: new battery12:24
vi_kerio: no one made such acessories for it.12:24
ruskiekerio, it is a new battery12:24
ruskielike 2-3 months old12:24
keriovi_: get to work then :D12:25
vi_do you have batterygraph?12:25
ruskieused to run it but stopped ages ago12:25
vi_ruskie: same here.12:25
ruskieanyway will see once I get into a runnable state again12:25
vi_however if it is somthing that only triggers from time to time it may be worth reinstalling.12:26
vi_To see if there is a massive CPU spike at the point of mass drainage.12:26
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ruskieit's weird I charged it up yesterday.. unplugged it.. and when I wanted to use it now... off...12:27
vi_runaway process has eaten your battery.12:28
vi_I blame kernel power settings.12:28
keriowhy do you blame k-p-s?12:28
vi_because some times it used to spazz out and eat my battery.  That was a few versions back though so who knows if it still does.12:30
ruskieI don't use power kernel12:30
vi_well I'll be.12:30
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infobotsomebody said powertop was available from, or
vi_~seen a grown man naked12:32
infoboti haven't seen 'a grown man naked', vi_12:32
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freemangordonzeq1: hi12:55
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freemangordonhxka: hi13:08
hxkafreemangordon: hello13:08
freemangordonhxka: what did you do pal, clicked kernel-power uninstaller?13:08
hxkaNo, I did run 'sudo /usr/sbin/kernel-powr-uninstall'13:09
freemangordonaah, even better :D. But why? I wrote in the post that if you have kernel-power it will remain, no new kernel will be flashed.13:10
hxkaJust for testing13:11
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freemangordonwell, you are aware that uninstaller flashes the stok kernel, are you?13:11
freemangordonnow, you have a pile of thumb2 compiled binaries, how do you think, will they run without errata workaround?13:12
hxkaNo, no, no13:13
freemangordonby removing the only kernel on your device, which provides kernel-feature-errata-workaround, you remova all of the packages that depend on that kernel feature13:13
hxkaThe problem caused by 'apt-get remove --auto-remove -y kernel-power-flasher' line13:13
freemangordonhxka: what then, i don't understand13:13
hxkaIt produce that:
freemangordonhxka: kenel-power and kernel-power-modules depend on kernel-power-flasher13:14
freemangordonso, by removing kernel-power-flasher you remove kernel-power and kernel-power-modules, and all of the packages that depend on kernel-feature-errata-workaround13:15
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freemangordonand you remove also the packages the depend on hildon-desktop, libgtk, microb-engine, etc,etc13:15
hxkaThat's what I'm trying to say from beginning: if 'community kernel' would not be separate package but a newer version of kernel, there won't be such problem at all13:16
freemangordonhxka: did you have kernel-cssu installed before executing  'apt-get remove --auto-remove -y kernel-power-flasher'?13:17
freemangordonso, in what exactly way your problems are caused by kernel-cssu name13:17
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freemangordonhmm, i see13:18
freemangordonyeah, you have your point13:18
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freemangordonhxka: I got it, you want the kernel in cssu-thumb to keep users from unbootable device if they have kernel-power installed and run the uninstaller by accident, do you?13:19
hxkaThat would be a solution13:21
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freemangordonhxka: but not the correct one ;). It is a bad solution to workaround a bug in kernel-power uninstaller by calling kernel-cssu "kernel"13:23
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freemangordonthere is just no way of stopping anyone from bricking his/her device13:24
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freemangordonmerlin1991: ping13:30
keriofreemangordon: devil's advocate: if it's supposed to be *the* kernel then it should be called "kernel", or at the very least replace the stock kernel package13:31
hxkafreemangordon: you said there is no particular reason for calling it kernel-cssu. I can give a reason to call community kernel as kernel: it supposed to be replacement of kernel. And having different package for that seems to me like 'dirty hack'.13:31
kerioyeah, what hxka said13:31
kerioalso lol at hxka for removing half of his packages13:31
freemangordonhxka: I agree, but it is still not a part of the "official" CSSU. When/if the time comes there will be a discussion on that and I will not forget your argumentation.13:32
freemangordonthe point of cssu-thumb repo was to prove/not if stable thumb2 is possible on n90013:32
freemangordonNow it is proven it is, despite what a bunch of so called "gurus" say. But there is still a long way to go ;)13:33
freemangordonhxka: ^^^13:33
hxkakerio: Luckily, I did a backup yesterday13:34
freemangordonhxka: point taken, thanks13:35
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hxkafreemangordon: glad to hear that ;)13:35
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qwazix_900freemangordon: HAM wants me to use pc suite to upgrade to thumb13. I have 85mb free rootfs. Also kcssu throws a message about breaking 3rd party policy and gives no ok button13:45
freemangordonqwazix_900: and what is on "problems" tab?13:45
kerioqwazix_900: have you ran cssu enabler?13:46
freemangordonkerio: hold on13:46
luca_hello, I'm trying to make a HildonEntry/GtkEntry only accept numbers (make the virtual keyboard only show numbers for input) but I can't find any information about it, all I found is a 3.0 features that doesn't appeart to exist anymore in 5.0 (
luca_any advice is appreaciated13:46
qwazix_900freemangordon: conflict with application packages: Linux kernel for community ssu (bootimage for u-boot and multiboot)13:48
luca_freemangordon: btw, I've been reading the -thumb thread, how (un)safe is to upgrade, I mean, how many people do you think is using it? how many issues are known? how often new issues are found?13:48
kerioqwazix_900: ooh, are you using multiboot/uboot?13:48
qwazix_900clean device flashed yesterday13:48
freemangordonqwazix_900: remove bootimg by hand13:49
qwazix_900only cssu-thumb and fcamera13:49
qwazix_900freemangordon: ok13:49
freemangordonit was installed because of apt stupidness13:49
freemangordonluca_: it is used by at least 20 people, no reported problems so far.13:50
freemangordon(despite some packaging stuff)13:50
freemangordonqwazix_900: you can also remove it by using HAM13:51
qwazix_900I just did13:51
qwazix_900waiting for HAM to get itself together and try again13:51
freemangordonhehe, I am going to have some lunch then :P13:52
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kerioqwazix_900 i hope you also have cssu-testing13:52
keriootherwise you're gonna have a bad time13:53
freemangordonkerio: stop that, enabling CSSU-thumb also enables CSSU-testing. And qwazix is not a noob13:53
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luca_freemangordon: and they idea is to make the standard cssu compiled with thumb in the future?13:53
freemangordonluca_: well, CSSU maintainers don't like that ;)13:54
qwazix810freemangordon, it continued (and threw me out of irc). Thanks.13:54
luca_freemangordon: I'm very tempted to try it but that's my only and main phone :)13:54
freemangordonluca_: I am using it on my only and main phone :P13:54
freemangordonbut it is upt to you of course :)13:55
qwazix810luca_, Ive been using it for about a month with no problems13:55
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luca_freemangordon: too bad, so, unless (you or somebody else) keeps updating the thumb fork, it won't get updates, right? is it possible to switch between the 2 without flashing (I don't care if I have to manually install packages using dpkg, or whatever)13:56
freemangordonqwazix810: well, there was an issue with TLS TBH13:56
luca_qwazix810: and you see any difference in performance/responsivness?13:56
qwazix810And I dont know if its fresh device speediness but my N900 is faster than my N9 lately13:56
freemangordonluca_: you won;t believe it13:57
qwazix810freemangordon, indeed, but I didnt encounter it but once13:57
freemangordonit is fixed now, but we were talking about issues and that one popped ;)13:57
freemangordonI just recall it13:58
freemangordonluca_: you may check on thumb thread on TMO about how often it is updated13:58
jonwilI just wrote a nice replacement for bluetooth-sysinfo13:58
qwazix810freemangordon, I cant wait to test your fennec :)13:58
freemangordonqwazix810: unfortunately it is still far from neing usefull as microb replacement :(13:59
freemangordonand knowing how fast is thumb2 compiled microb-engine, you know ;)14:00
qwazix810Id just like a usable browser with sync. Because all my passwords are on ff+sync14:00
freemangordonqwazix810: well, will upload fennec in thumb repo after I have some lunch14:01
qwazix810I dont really care to replace microb just yet, until more sites break with it14:01
freemangordonit is not that bad, but i would love it to be useful as microb replacement14:02
freemangordonwell, ok. I will opload it in 1-2 hours14:02
qwazix810I would love that too of course, but that would mean cursor mode which I understand is near impossible. I will test as soon as Its up14:03
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Gh0sty1-2=-1 so you will travel back in time to upload it? :p14:03
freemangordonqwazix810: we have all the tools needed to replace gecko backend14:04
qwazix810that is good news14:04
qwazix810I wonder if we could use maemo 4 microb ui which IIRC is open14:05
Gh0styare there any tools to make it stop memleaking or using more mem than it can handle?14:05
qwazix810so we have a full fast open browser14:05
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Gh0styrebooting the n900 stays necessary after a week or so (14:06
freemangordonqwazix810: we don't need to replace ui for a gecko replacement14:06
Gh0stysome friend even sold it since he said picking up phonecalls gets impossible if you leave it on for a month ...14:06
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qwazix810I know, I was just saying, for the sake of openness14:06
freemangordonGh0sty: care to share which firmware/CSSU is that?14:06
luca__berto_: thanks, it worked!14:06
qwazix810Gh0sty, you have to see my N9. Needs every day reboot14:07
Gh0stythe latest and greatest pr 1.3 with the community updates, a power kernel ...14:07
Gh0styhave swapolube on it too14:07
Gh0stybut seems even maemo forgets stuff after it reboots14:07
Gh0styrecently mine starts locking again after a reboot14:07
Gh0stywhile in the settings auto locking is disabled?!?14:08
freemangordonGh0sty: either you have some crappy SW installed which eats your RAM, or you need to move your swap to uSD14:08
freemangordonafter a while swap gets fragmented14:08
Gh0styhow do you move swap to uSD?14:08
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freemangordonGh0sty: use your favourite search engine :P14:09
Gh0stythink i once read something about that but that involved reinstalling the whole thing or something? :p14:09
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Gh0stywell guess it wouldnt be that more difficult than a normal linux14:09
Gh0stycreate swap partition mkswap. swapon14:09
Gh0styswapoff the other one :p14:10
freemangordonjust repartition your uSD, do mkswap on partition you dedicated for swap, do swapon ;)14:10
* freemangordon is off for lunch14:10
Gh0styi sometimes tend to forget its not windows, you dont need to be a brainsurgion to understand it :P14:10
qwazix810i dont know if its kcssu related but after plugging in, my battery icon shows false values until I reboot14:10
qwazix810I mean plugging in for a little while14:11
qwazix810it shows almost full now, and I know that it should be around 30%14:12
kerioBME silliness maybe?14:12
keriowere you using kernel-power before?14:12
kerioalso try shutting down, removing the battery for a couple of seconds and putting it back in14:12
kerioit resets one of the battery chips, can't remember which one14:12
qwazix810always, since v4614:12
qwazix810basically since mobile hotspot was out14:13
qwazix810kerio, ill try14:13
qwazix810gtg now14:13
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jonwilI am looking for someone who has a N900 who can try something for me by typing in (in xterm or ssh) sysinfo-tool -g /certs/ccc/pp/wlan-chanel and tell me if you see something that isn'15:04
jonwilisn't FCC15:04
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asemhello, i am trying to use in microb but the page is not functioning properly, the 3 icons above are missing and the side bar just reload the page when clicked,15:08
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bennypr0fanehello. I'd like to update Maemo from kp 50 to 51. I was wondering if this will mess with U-Boot?15:34
keriomost definetely15:36
kerioactually maybe not15:36
keriois it the bundled kernel?15:36
bennypr0faneI'm not sure which version of U-Boot I have installed right now, Pali edited the first post of U-Boot thread since I installed it...
bennypr0fanebundled with what?15:36
keriouboot on the n900 usually has the kernel "embedded" in the image too15:36
kerioso you can either load that or a kernel from somewhere else15:37
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keriowhat do you need uboot for, btw?15:38
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bennypr0faneyes, When I installed U-Boot it flashed the strock kernel to nand15:38
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bennypr0fanebut I have kp50 too15:39
bennypr0fanePali gave me instructions15:39
kerioinstalled as a -bootimg?15:39
bennypr0faneI think so, need to check...15:39
kerioapt-cache policy kernel-power-bootimg15:39
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bennypr0faneI want U-Boot to be able to boot Nemo from Sdcard15:39
kerioi see15:40
keriowhy do you hate fremantle? :'(15:40
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bennypr0faneI DON'T15:41
bennypr0fanewhat would make you think thaT?15:41
bennypr0fane...I'm just not satisfied with portrait mode...15:41
bennypr0faneand curious about what's coming! :-)15:42
keriowhat's coming is more fremantle!15:42
kerioanyway, wait for Pali15:42
bennypr0faneI sure hope so!15:42
keriohe's here often15:42
kerioin the meantime, install cssu!15:42
bennypr0faneI'm running TEsting15:42
bennypr0faneBut I want the super-fast transitions with forced rotation enabled15:43
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bennypr0faneHaven't found the perfect combo yet15:43
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bennypr0faneolder work on transition didn't support CSSU15:44
bennypr0fanenow there's a whole bunch of transition mods out there15:44
kerio1) portrait is bad and you should feel bad15:44
kerio2) transitions.ini is still the same, so why shouldn't it work?15:44
bennypr0fanestill testing what suits me best15:45
bennypr0fanewhat do you mean "portrait is bad"?15:45
bennypr0fanewhat's that supposed to mean?15:45
kerioit's evil!15:45
kerioit was sent here by the devil!15:45
bennypr0faneyou're evil15:45
kerioand the n900 is a bit too bulky for it to be comfortable for me15:45
kerioso clearly it's wrong15:45
bennypr0fanewhat the hell man?15:45
bennypr0fanedecent one-handed operation would make this device complete for me15:46
bennypr0fanethere's just a lot of situations for me , where I'd like to shoot off a quick sms or select a funky track from the media player15:47
bennypr0fanewith just one hand!15:47
keriobennypr0fane: OMP supports portrait15:47
keriopretty well15:47
bennypr0faneI know15:47
bennypr0fanegot it installed15:48
kerioactually, i think that forcing everything to portrait will still set stuff in landscape when the keyboard is open15:48
kerioso you'd get the best of both worlds, so to speak15:48
bennypr0faneBut they are never gonna bless N900 with a real portrait vkb15:48
kerio(that's how i set the Phone app on my n900, because the accelerometer is annoying)15:48
kerioof course not, vkbs are also evil15:49
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kerioand it's really, really hard to make a good one15:49
bennypr0faneOh, sure. I forgot about that15:49
bennypr0faneThey ARE evil15:49
kerioi wonder if the opera mobile portrait kbd can be "extracted" to work on other stuff too15:49
bennypr0fanebtw Pali doesn't mention anything about the  kp 51 meesing up U-Boot:
bennypr0faneit's more evil than the CSSU pseudo vkb!15:52
bennypr0faneI mean the one from Oper mobile15:52
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bennypr0faneIt just says to install U-Boot (done) and then install kernel-power?15:52
bennypr0faneafter I have this up and running, I'll get USB HOST MODE! 8-)15:52
freemangordon qwazix, vi__: uploading fennec in thumb repo(will take maybe 15 minutes), have in mind you should manually install libqtm-1215:53
kerioh-e-n works with kp50 too15:53
bennypr0faneOpera Mobile is closed source15:53
bennypr0fanewhat is h-e-n?15:53
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/15:53
infobot[hostmode] piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware!15:53
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/15:54
freemangordon~fuck yourself15:54
bennypr0fanenice dialog, infobot and freemangordon!15:54
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bennypr0fanewho is that "warning" actually coming from?15:55
bennypr0faneit's Pali who announced (and made?) USB hostmode. Maemo Council hates Pali?15:56
keriobennypr0fane: wait, what?15:56
kerioit was there since a long time ago15:57
bennypr0fanewhat about hostmode-gui?15:58
bennypr0faneMohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh"15:59
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bennypr0faneGuys, it never stops confusing me how people get dissed in this channel and there's no sign of this kind of controversy on TMO...16:00
keriobennypr0fane: 'twas a joke16:00
bennypr0faneit's a funny, strange little world16:00
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bennypr0fanewhat? by the infobot?16:00
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freemangordonbennypr0fane: h-e-n is hostmode-gui16:01
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freemangordonthere is a recent package Made by Pali, which is aimed to replace it16:01
freemangordondidn't tried it though16:02
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bennypr0fane...and "!!Note that pre release kp51 does not provides kernel-feature-usbhost-new!!"16:02
bennypr0fanehaven't tried hostmode yet either16:03
bennypr0faneold one neither16:03
bennypr0faneI was waiting for a stable solution16:03
bennypr0fanetime has come no, I hope?16:04
bennypr0fanefreemangordon, you have any idea, whether or not installing kp51 will kill UBoot?16:06
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keriobennypr0fane: "stable", lol16:07
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bennypr0fanekerio It no say "beta" or "testing", no warnings whatsoever16:11
bennypr0faneno idea, how you define stable. If not in extras-testing, extras-devel, or explicitly labbelled alpha/beta, and coming from a trustworthy source, I'll assume it's stable16:13
keriowell, it works properly for a lot of people16:13
freemangordonbennypr0fane: depends on which kernel has u-boot embedded in16:13
bennypr0fanemy v of U-Boot has stock kernel embedded16:15
bennypr0faneI think16:15
bennypr0faneupdated kp in HAM. at reboot, U-Boot is still there, but kp is still v.50 :-(16:16
freemangordonyou need kernel-power-bootimg16:17
bennypr0faneis that in extraS?16:17
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qwazix_900jonwil: etsi/eu16:18
freemangordonqwazix_900: fennec is in the repo16:19
bennypr0faneright. I hate it when I read stuff wrong/overread it. :-/16:19
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freemangordonqwazix_900: but you should install libqtm-12 by hand16:20
qwazix_900freemangordon: downloading asap :)16:20
qwazix_900freemangordon: 17a1thumb0?16:23
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qwazix_900freemangordon: ok16:24
bennypr0faneI have an apt-get update problem. "W: Conflicting distribution: fremantle-1.3 RElease (expected fremantle-1.3 but got ) Any idea what this means?16:28
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bennypr0fane"W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems" except, apt-get update is what produced this output :-$16:29
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qwazixwow, windows phone 8 can take screenshots16:51
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qwazixfreemangordon, fennec is very good, but memory footprint is huge. Now it's on 190MB with two tabs open.17:02
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kerioqwazix: wat17:02
keriothat's... not good17:02
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qwazixkerio, I've tried virtually every fennec version on any device I got that fennec can run on, and this is the only one that's usable (even on dual core androids, fennec is... bad, to put it politely)17:04
kerioqwazix: but even considering buffers and cache, i only have 90mb of free ram now D:17:05
qwazix(except N810, i fear I don't want to see what happens)17:05
zeqAfter spending far too many hours trying to integrate a modern QEMU into SB, I think I've come to realise why SB1 development was abandoned in favour of SB2.17:05
qwazixhtop now shows 220M VIRT on fennec17:06
keriooh firefox, you so silly17:06
vi_qwazix: what version are you referring to?17:06
vi_on what device?17:06
qwazixfreemangordon's and zeq's fennec17:07
kerioqwazix: oh, was it pushed to community-thumb?17:08
vi_qwazix: where??17:08
qwazixyep, there17:08
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qwazixanyone got an egg? I can fry one on my N900 now...17:11
vi_qwazix: because of fennec?17:12
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qwazixprobably, but I'm crash-testing it, I opened the most js/img heavy sites I've made to see what happens17:14
qwazixit has slowed down but it's still responding17:14
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vi_fennec is a hungry boy|17:27
vi_it ate ALL my rams17:29
qwazixand it didn't quit with the x button. I had to killall it to get rid of the process17:29
vi_###################################### forms.js loaded17:31
vi_###################################### content loaded17:31
vi_###################################### forms.js loaded17:31
vi_###################################### content loaded17:31
vi_creating 1!17:31
vi_[TabChild] SHOW (w,h)= (0, 0)17:31
vi_Segmentation fault17:31
zeqprobably swapping17:32
qwazixabout:memory started with 45mb17:33
zeqabout:memory should show where it's going17:33
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qwazixnow I'm opening a few tabs to see what's happening17:33
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vi_what do you mean swapping?17:35
qwazixzeq, which one is total mem used?17:35
zeqvi_: I mean the process wasn't sufficiently resident to be quit in reasonable time17:36
vi_Removing fennec ...17:37
vi_dpkg: error processing fennec (--remove): subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 117:37
vi_E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)17:37
vi_Errors were encountered while processing: fennec17:38
vi_seems to be a problem with the uninstall script as well.17:38
zeqqwazix: I don't know17:38
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qwazixzeq, should html5 (webm) videos work or not?17:38
qwazixzeq, memory sizes @about:memory seem reazonable, except a vsize one that is 140M17:39
zeqqwazix: they don't work for me last time I tried.17:39
zeqwell, they try to work17:39
zeqbut the video isn't updated properly17:39
qwazixok, good to know17:40
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qwazixafter hitting minimize memory usage, things seem better17:43
vi_zeq: deleting ~/mozilla/fennec/* has fixed the seg faulting.17:44
vi_however it does not want to apt-get remove.17:44
zeqvi_: I've noticed something gets left in an unrecoverable state in .mozilla/fennec after crashes17:45
qwazixis that (reduce memory usage) a flag? or is it a one-off cache flush? If it is a flag maybe we can have it always on considering the lack of ram on N900?17:46
vi_zeq: perhaps somthing is created with the wrong permissions and cannot be overwritten.17:47
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qwazixvi_, don't uninstall just yet, after a bit of use it's become a lot more fluid. It's pretty fast now with 3 heavy tabs open. It still eats your ram though17:55
vi_qwazix: It closed happily with the x button for me.17:56
qwazixcheck htop, no fennec process there?17:58
vi_qwazix: nope17:59
qwazixhmmm, ok suppose it was just one of those things that happen once in a while18:00
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qwazixI still believe that xul is to blame for all that slowness18:02
qwazixvi_, yep now it quit normally here too18:02
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qwazixtalking about fennec, I installed fennec1.1 on the N810, and it is faster than fennec ever was on the N900 (except this thumb version now, and it's near). Maybe this info will help you find a cause of the slowness.18:21
vi_maybe the gecko engine was just not meant to be run on arm.18:25
vi_runs fine, even with 96mb compcache.18:26
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qwazixbut N810 is still arm no?18:27
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keriofennec1.1 will probably run really quickly on the n900 too18:48
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: sure N810 is ARM18:49
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: even OMAP18:49
qwazixkerio, I was there when it was released, you couldn't call that quickly without all the worlds sugar coating18:50
qwazixthe only barely usable fennec on the N900 till now was 8-9 and that wasn't a joy to use18:51
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05: that's what I thought, so the processor shouldn't be the problem18:52
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if N810 OMAP2 might actually be faster on thumb than N900 OMAP3 with the SiErr-workaround it needs18:53
* DocScrutinizer05 waiting for shitstorm rising18:54
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: oh you ;)19:03
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Estel_For sure it doesn't make battery exploding19:13
Estel_morning, guys :)19:13
Estel_qwazix, does fennec have some kind of cursor mode? or mozilla failed to provide it after 12 versions?19:13
qwazixnothing I'm aware of, except long tap to select text19:14
MohammadAGwhat's a RegExp that'd match "*/posts/*"19:14
MohammadAGfor use with QRegExp19:14
Estel_hm, virtual memory is, most of the time, assigned to swap, and assignmed is bad word - it's jsut "reserved". It shouldn't be much of a problem, although of course, "minimize memory usage" reduces that too19:14
Estel_qwazix, and when external mouse is connected?19:14
Estel_generic Maemo's cursor does work, or is ignored like in microB Ui?19:14
qwazixEstel_, don't know but freemangordon says it works just like the cursor is your finger19:15
Estel_doesn't sound bad, after all.for what else, except highlighting text, we need cursor?19:15
Estel_right click is possible, yep?19:15
Estel_(as long press)19:15
Estel_btw it would be great to add some keyboard shortcut to automatically go into highlight mode19:16
Estel_and another one to automatically invoke context menu like with long press :D19:16
freemangordonqwazix: fennec has two processes opened, fennec and plugin-container, both eating equal amount of RAM19:16
Estel_usability on N900 goes up by 100%19:16
Estel_freemangordon, do you consider it easidly doable?19:17
Estel_(adding keyboard shortcut or keyboard shortcut + tap as instant-long-press-menu activator?)19:17
freemangordonEstel_: it is pontless if we don't reduce memory usage19:17
Estel_any ideas, for what we would need cursor mode, otherwise?19:17
qwazixMohammadAG, http:\/\/www\.facebook\.com\/[^\/]*\/posts\/.*19:17
Estel_freemangordon, sure, but AFAIK real memory used is OK19:17
Estel_it's only virtual memory19:17
freemangordonEstel_: no, it is not19:18
freemangordonit s RSS19:18
Estel_and qwazix said hitting "minimize memory usage" flag makes it OK19:18
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: your "running gags" (if they are even meant as such) are so damn lame I consider putting you on my ignore list again19:18
qwazixEstel_, hovering, and dragging (or using things like svgedit)19:18
Estel_well, do we even know what cause such memory usage? was it the same before maemo patches?19:18
freemangordonEstel_: do you have mozilla on your desktop?19:19
Estel_DocScrutinizer, well, everyone is free to do so, but is kinda childlish from your side - like You're very overreactive about Your own self :)19:19
qwazixEstel_, 170mb VIRT is not ok, but it makes it usable, if it's the only app running19:19
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Estel_I don't go berseker when you openly attack me, like in times of battery exploding discussion, and You're mad about some little " ;) " aimed and some random nonsense, without even mentioning Your name? Chillout, DocScrutinizer19:19
freemangordonthe other problem it that it takes ages to load even google19:19
Estel_freemangordon, yea, I do19:20
zeqfreemangordon: have you tried without any plugins?19:20
freemangordonwell, check memory usage, it does not have maemo patches :P19:20
DocScrutinizer05well, consider what's more childish, a lame meme ala "and by the way kartago needs to get destroyed" that annoys and bores everybody, or the reaction on that which is add ing you to /ignore19:20
freemangordonzeq: plugins?19:20
Estel_freemangordon, my firefox on desktop, having 15 tabs open, uses 93 memory total, including virtual19:20
qwazixfreemangordon, I noticed that, it's like I had slow dns, (i do have slow dns from time to time so I didn't mention it)19:20
Estel_or not19:21
Estel_93 is private memory19:21
zeqfreemangordon: plugin-container should just be for containing nsplugins19:21
freemangordonqwazix: there is even a bug opened19:21
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DocScrutinizer05and please quote "I openly atacked you during any discussion of last 24h" or live with attribute "liar"19:21
zeqI'm just wondering why it gets so big19:21
freemangordonzeq: I'm afraid no, it is used for everything19:21
freemangordonI don't have plugins.enabled to true19:21
zeqpoorly named?19:22
freemangordoncould be19:22
MohammadAGqwazix, thanks :D19:22
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, I think quoting discussion from last 24 h is more boring to "audience" and could be done in private channel, but if You insist - when I asked for arguments about overclocking leading to exploding battery, you called me troll ;)19:22
Estel_but DocScrutinizer, seriously, do whatever please You, if You need to add me to ignore list, just do it, without need to pre-announce19:22
zeqfreemangordon: have you brought up the memory usage on #mobile?19:23
Estel_I'm quite tired of Your overreactivity, so do what pleases You19:23
bindican I make my n900 into an ip cam?19:23
Estel_can we push it into private query or end here?19:23
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: count posts of me and you, then tell me who of us both is overreacting and perpetuating (intended) insulting meme and flooding the channel19:24
qwazixI installed firefox sync on microb. And it stays there (I had tried years ago and it succeeded but was nowhere to be found after restart). The problem is the preferences page doesn't show up ok. The text-edits are missing and I can see only connect/disconnect/syncnow buttons19:24
qwazixanybody knows about xul?19:25
DocScrutinizer05my posts count been around 5, which was enough for you to flood the channel with liteally hundereds of "replies"19:25
Estel_probably equally, especially when I'm begging - use query! it's of no interest to anyone else here, except us two19:25
DocScrutinizer05and not even stopping 24h later19:25
freemangordonzeq: no, I am still waiting you to fill all of the bug requests :)19:25
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Estel_unless you like to argue in public for sake of arguing, we can easily talk it out on private channel19:25
freemangordonzeq: and to confirm that ! does not make any difference in maemo519:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm not interested in *any* talking with you about such BS19:26
zeqfreemangordon: I get distracted too easily :/19:26
zeqwasted far too much time on qemu/sb this weekend :(19:26
freemangordonzeq: yeah, i see, that is why I remind you from time to time :D:D:D19:26
qwazixInteresting, microb is recognized as fennec by sync... I wonder how much fennec code is based on microb19:27
DocScrutinizer05I'm just informing you that your style already is concieved intentionally provocing and offensive19:27
DocScrutinizer05aka trolling19:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer, so just stfu? It looks msierably between al prollductive talk lines other people are doing here. After all, you msut learn to live with small and innocent jokes like "exploding battery due to OC" - such things remain in memory, without any negative stance against You :)19:27
freemangordonqwazix: microb IS fennec, i.e. gecko19:27
Estel_freemangordon, You've said we have everything we need to replace gecko engine behind microB19:28
Estel_do you mean replacing it with fennec backend?19:28
Estel_or separate project?19:28
qwazixI mean the sync.xpi, has a switch clause somewhere and does a on fennec and b on regular firefox19:28
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: sorry I don't buy your innocent mindset here19:28
Estel_DocScrutinizer, no problem, I can live with that :) can you?19:28
DocScrutinizer05you've proven several times too often what your real intentions are19:28
qwazixmicrob executes the fennec part of the code (or so it seems)19:28
freemangordonzeq: seriously, lets finish that until romaxa still have interest in helping us. We do't have any chance without him19:29
infobotfreemangordon meant: zeq: seriously, lets finish that wjile romaxa still have interest in helping us. We do't have any chance without him19:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer, sure. My real intentions are to dig Your everwhitstanding authority via sneaky and sub-consciounesly reminding absurdish nonsenses You've picked, like battery exploding due to OC. Happy now?19:29
zeqhas freemangordon says, microb and fennec are the same thing. microb just has a native UI, and is based on a version from a few years back.19:30
NIN101how much both of you are getting paid for this ongoing comedy? DocScrutinizer Estel_19:30
Estel_NIN101, I got potato order19:30
freemangordonzeq: :nod:19:30
Estel_I'm proud of it!19:30
Estel_will make somke fried chips of it, later19:30
infobotzeq meant: as freemangordon says, microb and fennec are the same thing. microb just has a native UI, and is based on a version from a few years back.19:30
freemangordonwell, there are a bunch of fixex from Nokia19:31
DocScrutinizer05I just feel pissed about somebody pasting bullshit memes to provoke me while same time claiming my relies were oh-so-unproductive compared to his BS19:31
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Estel_wrong assumption - I don't want to provoke You, in fact, I haven't even though about You while writing about battery exploding :) Rather had such idiotic claim by someone on forum, in mind19:31
Estel_I know, its hard to belive that I'm not thinking about You 24/7, but it's time to realize it19:32
DocScrutinizer05bwahahaha suuuuure19:32
freemangordonguys, can't you just leave that for hours when noone reads but you19:32
Estel_freemangordon, I was asking for 5 lines to bring it into private query, if necessary :P19:32
qwazixfreemangordon, zeq, yeap, and I was wrong about the code block, it probably just crashes before it reaches there anyway19:32
freemangordondoes not matter19:32
freemangordonEstel_: ^^^19:32
Estel_last time I checked, query wasn't read by anyone than participants19:33
freemangordonEstel_: then just query doc19:33
freemangordonif he does not respond, well, i think you will still have sound sleep19:34
Estel_well, good idea, I didn't wanted to do so for someone who clearly replied that isn't interested in query - I felt "forcing" query a little offensive19:34
Estel_but it seems unavoidable :)19:34
Estel_true, my sleep is sometimes too sound ;()19:34
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: (<Estel_> freemangordon, I was asking for 5 lines to bring it into private query, if necessary :P) sure, but YOU decide it *is* necessary since you can't stop continuing on the topic anyway19:35
Estel_?query DocScrutinizer19:35
DocScrutinizer05don't even bother, i told you i'm not interested19:35
DocScrutinizer05just STFU19:35
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vi_well that was fun.19:38
Estel_freemangordon, but considering that microB ui is closed, how do You plan to make it utilize updated features fennec provide?19:38
vi_zeq: !19:38
vi_freemangordon: !19:38
Estel_vi_, !19:38
freemangordonzeq: after all it seems "if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {" behaves in the same way as "if (!mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {"19:39
vi_Thankyou for this marvellous fennec update.  Your hardwork is appreciated by all.19:39
freemangordonon maemo5 that is19:39
Estel_I mean, are we sure that it is compatible at all? No changed invokes, function name,s etc?19:39
freemangordonEstel_: of course it is not compatible19:39
freemangordonthat is why Nokia invented eal19:39
freemangordonstands for engine abstraction layer19:39
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Estel_uh, translator?19:40
freemangordonand it is the layer we can implement19:40
zeqfreemangordon: have you tried applying the microb patches to a newer xulrunner?19:40
Estel_i mean, it translates calls?19:40
Estel_wow, sounds nice19:40
Estel_now we *only* need to find out, why gecko from microB uses reasonable ammount of RAM, and gecko from current fennec used 20x more for same task ;)19:40
Estel_but, but, using microBUi mean, that we still won't be able to properly use add-ons :(19:41
Estel_even now it is possible to install ones comaptible with current gecko engine, but they're unusable due to gui not implementing extensibility19:41
freemangordonzeq: no i didn't19:41
Estel_thansk a lot *reading*19:41
Estel_OTOH, we could use fennec UI and microbUi on the same device, i.e. use microB when we need it's capabilities like cursor mode, and fennec UJI when we need usage of extensions, yes?19:42
Estel_or tabs19:42
Estel_or anything that is implemented in UI19:42
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zeqEstel_: in theory19:43
freemangordonzeq: would you comment on the bugtracker, that it seems the change is not needed. After all we can always open a new bug19:44
freemangordoni will ping romaxa19:44
Estel_honestly, main problem I have with microB, isn't in it's capabilities due to underlying engine, but with tab-less Ui, and impossibility of adding such things as lazarus form recovery, or spell checker, or...19:45
Estel_of course it's my private point of view19:45
Estel_don't want to sound like negatron, as Your work on freenec is wonderful, but considering how well chromikum behaves even through Ed, I wonder if proper Maemo port wouldn't be more effective. I'm sceptical about possibility of teaching mozzila to eat less RAM19:47
Estel_just thoughts19:47
zeqfreemangordon: will do19:47
freemangordonzeq: thanks19:48
Estel_freemangordon, zeq, we don't have any chance of kicking out microB UI, due to bounds with other Maemo components?19:49
freemangordonEstel_: primary goal is to have fully functinal fennec which does not bring n900 to its knees.19:50
freemangordononce we have it, we'll see19:50
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qwazixI managed to run the sync setup wizard on microb, which completes successfully but then nothing happens...19:50
freemangordonqwazix: sync is supposed to work on fennec19:50
qwazixyeah on fennec it works perfectly19:50
vi_one odd bug on fennec.  arrow keys do not work in text fields.19:52
Estel_freemangordon, sounds sane19:52
freemangordonvi_: yeah, fennec does some craxy keyboard remapping, mainly because maemo619:52
Estel_brb, or I will be left without food and water :P19:52
qwazixDon't know if it is relevant but arrows don't work at all on harmattan fennec19:52
vi_fuck maemo 6.19:52
freemangordonwe'll get rid of it once major issues (speed and RAM usage are fixed)19:53
Estel_vi_, You asked how to enjoy n900 if You need to keep it into safe - well, i'm buying leather otterbox for it, already ordered screen protector, and cut one for camera too, from bigger one19:53
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Estel_also, DIY'ing wonderfull capacitive stylus for precision. sure, it still will sux compared to normal stylus on resistive screen, but will be orders of magnitude better than any normal capacitive stylus available for purchase19:54
* Estel_ run to shop19:54
freemangordonzeq: going to look at microb patches to see if there is something useful19:57
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RiDfreemangordon you nickalerted me?19:59
RiDah nevermind. "we'll get rid of it"19:59
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bennypr0fanehello, I updated my kp50 to kp51. it's in a bootimage in U-Boot. I can't boot it though, only the stock kernel20:00
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bennypr0fanethe screen goes black after it says "starting kernel"20:01
bennypr0fane..and powers off20:01
bennypr0fanehow can I diagnose what's wrong?20:01
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bennypr0fanehas Pali been sighted here today?20:06
vi_bennypr0fane: have you tried reinstalling it?20:07
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bennypr0fanenot yet20:12
bennypr0faneyou mean, remove first adn then reinstall20:13
zeqfreemangordon: there certainly are interesting sounding patches, but who knows what applies anymore.20:13
bennypr0fanemaybe there's a problem with uboot20:14
vi_bennypr0fane: It works for everyone else.20:15
vi_bennypr0fane: have you tried disabling the watchdogs?20:16
bennypr0fanewhat'S that?20:16
vi_use Flasher to enter R&D mode with no watchdogs flag.20:19
bennypr0faneI'm in R&D mode20:19
vi_then set the no watchdogs flag.20:19
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: I'd suspect kernelmodule issue20:23
DocScrutinizer05or corrupted kernel image20:24
bennypr0fanevi_ How do I set the flags?20:24
DocScrutinizer05flasher --help20:24
bennypr0faneand how to remove kernel-power-bootimg? Is it safe to just uninstall it with apt-get/HAM?20:25
DocScrutinizer05you need to enable R&D mode, and set --no-*wd flags20:25
DocScrutinizer05bennypr0fane: should be safe aiui, since it's just a set of files on your filesystem when you didn't boot to that kernel20:26
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DocScrutinizer05uBoot config however might not revert to previous state, dunno about how this config gets handled by installation of additional kernel-*-bootimg20:27
bennypr0faneIn kp announcement thread it says never uninstall kernel power packages, only remove via menu entry "Nokia Kernel", but I don't have that I the menu, so I guess that warning does not apply to kp in bootimg?20:28
DocScrutinizer05bennypr0fane: your first and best bet would be to compare md5sum of the kernel-power-bootimg, and check size and files of modules dir20:28
DocScrutinizer05bennypr0fane: that applies when you flash KP as your primary kernel - that's not how uBoot works20:29
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DocScrutinizer05of course you never should remove any kernel parts of the kernel you just booted from20:30
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05: now I booted from stock kernel20:30
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05: you wouldn't jhappen to know where the bootimg is located?20:31
DocScrutinizer05so you're basically free to do to kernel-power-bootimg whatever you like20:31
DocScrutinizer05sorry, nope20:31
DocScrutinizer05but virtually everybody else in here should be able to tell you20:32
bennypr0fanethen I guess I'll just ry and reinstall it first20:32
bennypr0fanecrap. this shell doesn't have "whereis"20:32
DocScrutinizer05bennypr0fane: check free space on /20:33
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DocScrutinizer05df -h /lib/modules20:34
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* DocScrutinizer05 moves 48MB syslog out of /var/log, to cure the 98% used misery20:36
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05 wow, your device must be stuffed!20:37
bennypr0faneI have 72.7MB available20:38
bennypr0faneremoved kernel-power-bootimg. does make sense to just reinstall it right now, or do I need to do anything else first?20:39
DocScrutinizer05so lack of free space is no explanation for a possibly missing install of /lib/midules/*PK*/*20:39
bennypr0fane*removed it via apt-get20:40
bennypr0faneshould I reboot?20:40
DocScrutinizer05reinstall I'd say20:40
DocScrutinizer05no need to reboot20:40
DocScrutinizer05 nothing in your system is accessing those files right now, so no reboot needed20:40
bennypr0faneIt removed kernel-power-settings before, but it doesn't want to reinstall that now20:41
DocScrutinizer05sorry I have no uBoot install here, so I can't check what's the supposed dir/file names and sizes20:42
DocScrutinizer05ummpf, yesterday I heard it allegedly vanished from repo20:42
bennypr0faneIf only this kind of info wasn't so complicated to dig up from maemo.org20:42
DocScrutinizer05you should check your catalogs, and use HAM to install kernels etc system stuff20:44
bennypr0faneI did have a problem with the repos before20:44
bennypr0faneBut couldn't make sense of it20:45
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bennypr0fanewhen I apt-get update it says repo conflict-something20:45
bennypr0faneI did update in HAM before that though, and it was ok20:46
bennypr0fanejust tried to boot kp51 now, still not happening :-(20:47
bennypr0fanebUt, this seems kp51 installed now, while before I think it was 51r1!20:47
bennypr0fanehow can I check which version of uboot I'm running?20:49
Estel_DocScrutinizer, You've said that open kernel on N950 can't provide fully open device, as it already runs into bits closed by hardware parts20:53
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Estel_but, how Mer achieve restriction-free device, then?20:53
Estel_in case of running n9/50 with Mer?20:53
DocScrutinizer05mer simply doesn't use the locked bits20:54
DocScrutinizer05when there's nothing in system checking the device lockcode, then you won't even notice you can't change the lockcode20:55
DocScrutinizer05if there's no aegisfs in system then it won't break20:55
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bennypr0fanehere's my apt-get update fail:
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DocScrutinizer05check your catalogs21:00
DocScrutinizer05disable all those not needed for what you plan to do21:01
DocScrutinizer05(hint: ovi might be one of those)21:01
bennypr0fane_what about extras-devel?21:01
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DocScrutinizer05disable, usually. Unless you plan to install something from there (hint: e.g. most recent PK)21:02
bennypr0fane_fff HAM is taking forever21:03
DocScrutinizer05and disable CSSU-extras or whatever it's called, if you might have that21:03
RiD|AFKwhy do you even use HAM :(21:03
DocScrutinizer05because we're dealing with kernel installs here21:04
RiD|AFKwon't fapman do the same without issues?21:04
RiD|AFKwell, i see what you mean. fapman catalogs are separate21:05
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DocScrutinizer05no, fapman is known to fail on exactly those critical installs, like powerkernel etc21:05
* RiD hides in a corner21:05
RiDi used fapman on those installs21:06
bennypr0fane_HAM is recommended or apt-get in the kp announcement threads21:06
bennypr0fane_I dunno, this seems broken. catalogues are not loading21:07
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DocScrutinizer05well, then use apt-get, but use HAM to enable/disable/define/delete catalogs21:07
bennypr0fane_probably BCS of this issue21:07
bennypr0fane_oh, there they are. took almost 3 mins21:07
DocScrutinizer05that's almost fast for HAM21:08
bennypr0fane_so which one DO I need for this?21:08
bennypr0fane_and what's that issue even about?21:08
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DocScrutinizer05I don't know for sure what's the issue. But it's evidently something about repos/catalogs21:09
bennypr0fane_I have only and extras-testing, and Nokia enabled now21:09
DocScrutinizer05and disabling unneeded catalogs always is a very sane thing to do21:09
DocScrutinizer05disable testing, enable extras-devel21:10
bennypr0fane_but u think this is related to the kernel not booting?21:10
DocScrutinizer05the kernel in testing for sure isn't what you planned to install21:10
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bennypr0fane_ok, it's updating. kp51 is in devel21:11
DocScrutinizer05now install kp5121:11
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bennypr0fane_I've had an issue with repos like this (or the same one) before, but I can't remmeber what I did to fix it...21:12
bennypr0fane_you mean install the regular one or bootimg?21:13
DocScrutinizer05probably bootimg21:13
DocScrutinizer05since aiui you want it to work under uBoot21:14
bennypr0fane_Yes. that's not here in HAM though. In fact, first time I installed it with apt-get bcs of that21:14
bennypr0fane_Here I have only the regular kp51 package, and boot img "for BFS user", whatever that is...21:15
kerioDocScrutinizer05: does HAM always read sources.list and every .list in sources.list.d?21:15
DocScrutinizer05seems so21:16
DocScrutinizer05the HAM specific version of it21:16
bennypr0fane_I suspect Pali never put it in that repo or sth21:16
kerioshame, i really wanted to only leave the system repos enabled for HAM and only leave -devel and sdk for apt21:17
keriooh well21:17
DocScrutinizer05quite possible, so follow instructions on KP howto or tmo21:17
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bennypr0fane_ could it have sth to do with the fact that kp version in HAM is 51r1, and the bootimg is 51?21:18
bennypr0fane_I'm guessing the bootimg didn't get that latest fix21:18
bennypr0fane_ kernel-power (1:2.6.28-10power51r1) fremantle; urgency=low21:19
bennypr0fane_ * Fix bug in bq2415x_charger driver which cause reboot when driver is unloaded"21:19
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bennypr0fane_could that be it? If so, how to best alert Pali?21:21
bennypr0fane_how to check the version number of a package?21:23
DocScrutinizer05wait for pali to pop up here21:24
bennypr0fane_it says I have the bootimg v. 51r1, so that's not it... :-(21:26
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bennypr0fane_I guess I'm stumped for now...21:27
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DocScrutinizer05you need pali I guess21:31
DocScrutinizer05or post a "bug report" to tmo thread21:31
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* DocScrutinizer05 suspects some problems with kernel name vs uBoot config21:32
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DocScrutinizer05possibly related to what you'll see when you do ls - l /lib/modules21:33
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DocScrutinizer05or (also maybe) related to depmod -a21:33
Estel_OK, full backup of everything (tm) completed, i'm jumping into thumb2 bandwagon :) Prepare vine and hookers21:34
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RaimuVine? Oh, you're taking the jump Tarzan way. Although I don't really recall whores in the books. I don't think this is canonical. :D21:58
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Estel_;) Strong Black Vine22:04
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Estel_BTW, no whores! In presence of vine, hookers transform into elegant promiscuous vintage ladies22:05
Estel_it's know chemical reaction, Ya know22:05
RaimuWow. Never knew. ;p22:06
Estel_but be sure to google for promiscuous translation, though22:06
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Estel_I got little question for sheeps using facebook, if you don't mind. There is possibility to send message to someone who is not inside Your 326r32475446325463253252 friends collection22:07
Estel_but, are those messages delivery at all? Or redirected to /dev/null?22:07
infobotEstel_ meant: but, are those messages delivered at all? Or redirected to /dev/null?22:07
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Estel_Pali, ping22:16
Estel_freemangordon, ping22:16
EdLinEstel_, I have anonymous messages blocked on my Facebook profile.22:16
EdLinor rather, non-friend messages.22:16
Estel_hm, they could at least wanr that user have it blocked22:16
EdLinused to have them enabled, until someone ranted at me via it.22:17
Estel_stupid shitbook :(22:17
Estel_thanks for info, nevertheless22:17
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Estel_freemangordon, both kernel-cssu3 and kp51r1 (not suprisingly, as they're same) changed something re watchdog (program to tick watchdogs)?22:18
Estel_after installing any of those kernels, backupmenu works, but reportf- at start - that Pali'22:19
Estel_Pali's watchdog haven't been found22:19
Estel_and of course, it shutdowns after timer22:19
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tank-manEdLin, user comments from that story say that norway killer had a facebook account!22:19
tank-manso the headline is opposite22:19
EdLintank-man, yep. So much for slashdot being accurate. ;)22:19
freemangordonEstel_: I am not aware of any change in that regard22:19
freemangordonbetter ask Pali22:20
Estel_freemangordon, I'm 1005 sure that kernel resulted in this change, nothing else installed, and it worked 5 miunutes ago.22:20
freemangordonor report on KP thread22:20
Estel_Ok,. i'll ask him22:20
Estel_on kp thread, yea22:20
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Estel_freemangordon, hnuh, sorry for bothering, false alarm. It was because I had already new modules installed, but kernel not flashed yet =)22:25
Estel_after all, multiboot flash it on first run22:25
Estel_so no surprise, that backupmenu haven't found /dev/watchdog22:26
Estel_everything else works fine22:26
infobotEstel_ meant: everything now works fine22:26
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Estel_freemangordon, by any chance, have You managed to build kernel-power-settings 15 and uploaded it to thumb repos?22:32
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freemangordonEstel_: I won't do anything until Pali explains what is the situation22:35
Estel_uh, and you've asked him already?22:35
Estel_I may do it in kp thread22:36
Estel_he was here today, for few hours22:36
freemangordonok, do it22:36
Estel_np, and thanks :)22:36
freemangordoni missed him22:36
Estel_nice, only 62 packages remaining for installation. time for some whisky22:42
Estel_freemangordon, could You, please, tell me version of qt-components-base-theme on your device?22:55
Estel_same for qt-components-1022:55
Estel_and iptables22:55
Estel_sorry for bothering :)22:55
Estel_of packages with such name22:56
freemangordonwhy do you think i have such package installed? ok. lemme check22:56
Estel_I know You have ;)22:56
Estel_well, maybe except iptables, sorry if this is the case. but the former 2 for sure.22:56
freemangordondpkg -l qt-components-base-theme22:58
freemangordonNo packages found matching qt-components-base-theme.22:58
freemangordoniptables       1.4.12-1maemo122:58
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freemangordonEstel_: ^^^22:58
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Estel_wut? It got pulled now, when installing cssu-thumb 0_o22:59
Estel_same for qt-components-1022:59
Estel_now it even want to get upgraded22:59
freemangordonthat's qt-mobility 1.022:59
Estel_something is fishy here, I can't recall it being in thumb repo22:59
Estel_qt-components-10 is qt-mobility? I know name, but can't recall what it is?23:00
freemangordonNFC what  qt-components-10 is23:00
Estel_ah, so qt-components-base-theme is qt mobility 1.0?23:00
Estel_also, you know thayt this verison of iptables You have got upgraded lately, without changelog, by unknown person? I wonder if it works as it should23:01
freemangordonEstel_: qt-mobility-1.0 is qt-mobility-1.0. NFC what qt-components-... is23:01
Estel_ok, i'll try to trace why it got installed now23:01
freemangordonand in thumb repo there is thumb-compiled qtm-1023:01
Estel_with cssu-testing and cssu-thumb enabled23:01
Estel_thanks, and sorry for bothering23:01
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DocScrutinizer05I wonder if friggin apt could create a dependencies diagram, or tree, or whatever23:03
DocScrutinizer05s/create/actually print out/23:04
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I wonder if friggin apt could actually print out a dependencies diagram, or tree, or whatever23:04
Estel_I recall sometihng like recursive dependencies in ipkg, a embedded version of apt for openwrt, so I think apt-get is capable too23:04
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Estel_ough, "unknown person" who uploaded iptables lately, seems to be Pali23:04
Estel_he could start providing changelogs, though23:04
Estel_without changelog and TMO thread, I though it may be some "unknown update", especially, that it was pre-quelled by 6 failed attempts of building23:05
Estel_and after marmistrz's update to glib I was a little more cautious about -devel ;)23:05
Estel_it got promoted to extras by hand, X-Fade did it23:07
Estel_but missing dependencies?23:07
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JaffaMohammadAG: ping23:13
Estel_Today is a good day to [strike]die[/strike] test things on N900. Thumb ready, going to test new hostmode and bme-replacement modules :)23:14
MohammadAGJaffa, pong23:19
JaffaMohammadAG: Erm, I forget. Possibly "is Socialty in a repo?, e.g. AFM"23:19
MohammadAGJaffa, no, but updates are handled internally23:20
JaffaMohammadAG: Ah cool. So can I say something like "User can also click @@@ to get the latest update"?23:20
DocScrutinizer05hi MohammadAG Jaffa23:21
MohammadAGJaffa, it notifies you, or optionally, About -> Check for Updates :)23:22
JaffaMohammadAG: Ta23:22
MohammadAGI probably should improve that23:22
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JaffaMohammadAG: Neat ;-)23:22
MohammadAGTime to commit what facebook broke23:23
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DocScrutinizer05facebrick, asskick23:26
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DocScrutinizer05I'm taking pride in not having a FB account and thus being a potential mass murderer23:27
JaffaIf there's anyone I know I'd classify as "a potential mass murderer" ;-)23:27
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JaffaFortunately, I've got respawn23:30
MohammadAGwith a 4 second delay23:30
JaffaHow long's it take a Cylon, eh?23:30
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, that KIT on legs?23:31
MohammadAGthis way annoying to fix
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders the 100th time, while staring on N9, if the "curved" display was worth the headache and expense23:33
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JaffaMohammadAG: ewww23:33
DocScrutinizer05actually yesterday I tried to find out how much of curved it actually is, and I still wonder if anybody would notice the difference23:33
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, it's actually a bit nice :P23:34
MohammadAGbut yeah, not worth replacement expenses23:35
DocScrutinizer05call me numb, I don't sense any difference in using it, compared to N95023:35
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DocScrutinizer05if it wasn't for the reflections, I'd not even find a way to tell it's curved at all, unless I'd use a ruler on it23:36
DocScrutinizer05modulo the 5mm frame23:36
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DocScrutinizer05which probably wasn't the major technological challenge23:37
zeqSony Trinitron CRTs were curved the same way :P23:38
DocScrutinizer05meh, actually nope23:38
DocScrutinizer05they were perfect cylinder segments23:39
zeqI know, poor attempt at humour :)23:39
RST38hWhy do you say "were"? I have one downstairs. Using it for debugging TV-attached gadgets.23:40
RST38hStill works like a charm23:40
zeqI was going to suggest they just shrink one, no need for new tech :)23:40
DocScrutinizer05yeah, if it wasn't for some complete swap of my assets by desaster incident, I'd still have a nice small one around23:41
zeqthey were/are nice tubes23:41
DocScrutinizer05like 12"23:41
DocScrutinizer05or was it 14"?23:41
RST38hMeanwhile, everyone is expecting their world to collapse with Win8 release23:41
RST38hEven Microsoft, hehe23:42
zeqwill anybody even notice?23:42
zeqMy gf just had her company laptop "upgraded" to Win723:43
RST38hSome people will23:43
zeq(from XP)23:43
* RST38h definitely noticed Win7 upgrade - it became difficult to use computer for anything meaningful23:43
vi_.win7 is allright.23:43
RST38hNot if you are doing development23:44
zeqvery similar to kde423:44
vi_cannot comment on development, however as an end user OS it is ok.23:44
RST38hSo, KDE has finally caught up with its target23:45
vi_XP is a decade old. let it go.23:45
RST38hThey have successfully implemented Microsoft Windows on Linux?23:45
zeqI think they managed to out Microsoft, Microsoft :)23:45
zeqbugs included ;)23:46
RST38hNo problem letting it go, dude. It is the next thing that freaks me out. Or rather the tendency of each next thing to be worse than the last one lately23:46
RST38hXP was more or less ok23:46
MohammadAGthree CRT TVs and 2 CRT monitors here23:46
MohammadAGno actual use though23:47
zeqXP was w2k with bling23:47
RST38hw2k was ok too23:47
zeqVista/7... bling with some apps23:47
RST38hME was a lemon, but let us forget it23:47
RST38hVista was ME^223:47
RST38hWin7 is ME^2/223:47
MohammadAG7 is good23:47
MohammadAGVista was horrible23:48
RST38hFrom what I have read, Win8 is ME^3, with Metro and all23:48
MohammadAGthe theme was awesome23:48
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RST38hMohammad: Try disabling UAC, then renaming a file in Explorer or creating a new file ;)23:48
RST38hMohammad: Try fixing it23:48
MohammadAGdon't worry, I mastered UAC Vista times23:48
RST38hNot to mention that the last service pack cannot install on about 30-40% of Win7 installations23:48
MohammadAGthen 7 came along and fixed the issues, thus wasting my time23:48
MohammadAGthe only thing I regret is the money I spent on Vista23:49
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qwazixDo you know who implemented the ext automount feature?23:49
RST38hMeanwhile,Lumia decided to update OS23:49
RST38hAnyone jailbroken it already? OS is the only thing pulling it down =(23:50
MohammadAGno, locked bootloader23:50
MohammadAGthe only unlockable lumias are the ones Nokia forgot to upgrade before shipping it23:50
Estel_qwazix, ext automount of what?23:51
MohammadAGext microSDs23:52
MohammadAGfreemangordon / Pali23:52
Estel_MohammadAG, if N950 is locked even with open kernel, due to kernel coming in and seeing device locked already by hardware trustMyass computing...23:52
RST38h"Political Science Prof Asks: Is Algebra Necessary?"23:52
Estel_How Mer achieve unlocked device?23:52
RST38hAnswer: Not really, for political science profs.23:52
Estel_qwazix, Pali update ke-recv to automount usb disks and ext ones23:52
Estel_and vfat ones too ;023:53
Estel_freemangordon - of my, 50 % of RAM free and 16 mb of swap used23:53
Estel_I know, you have heard it before :D23:53
Estel_it leaves much room in RAM to promised hookers23:53
RST38h"This debate matters. Making mathematics mandatory prevents us from discovering and developing young talent."23:53
infobotEstel_ meant: it leaves much room in RAM for promised hookers23:53
Estel_vi_, windoze 7 is as good for end user as windows phone is23:54
Estel_for any other use case - i.e. any that matters, and if you really need to sue windoze - xp owns all23:54
infobotEstel_ meant: for any other use case - i.e. any that matters, and if you really need to use windoze - xp owns all23:54
Estel_lol, freudic mistake23:54
MohammadAGEstel_, who?23:55
Estel_but, honestly, debian or life ;)23:55
MohammadAGEstel_, I really didn't get what you said :P23:55
Estel_understandable, as I'm talking multi-tasking way, announcing recipents and beginning of message :p23:55
Estel_as for You, MohammadAG, I asked how Mer deal with CAL locked by trustedasscomputing23:56
qwazixEstel_, do you have ext formatted memcard?23:56
Estel_open kernel for harmattan can't stil ldo many things, as parts of n950 are locked, yep?23:56
MohammadAGI have no idea23:56
Estel_qwazix, actually no, but why asking? I kinda know how this new ke-recv work, so i may be able to help23:56
MohammadAGabout the mer part23:56
Estel_MohammadAG, Mer doesn't seems to be affected by trustedasscomputing, so I wonder if this could be adaptable for harmashit too23:57
Estel_and open kernel, without loses that come with it23:57
qwazixEstel_, I've got an sd with an extX e-d partition, an Ext2 NITDroid partition and the rest is FAT. File manager shows all 3 partitions normally but I still get the "Memory format unsupported" at boot23:58
Estel_freemangordon, what have You done to thumb? i'm usually prone to palcebo effect, but device, it's UI, really seems *faster* with thumb, not only RAM usage lesser23:58
Estel_I know it is impossible, but it's really present23:58
qwazixand I was wondering if it happens to other people too23:58
Estel_opening thins, like setting, messing with windows, everything is absolutely smooth like never before23:58
qwazixEstel_, I have this feeling too23:58
Estel_qwazix, huh, for that silly message, no idea23:58
Estel_but if 1st aprtition (mmcblk1p1) is vfat, it should be ok23:59
Estel_even if it's 2 Mb in size23:59
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Estel_so maybe You juist need to change order of partitions23:59
qwazixHmm, probably it isn't. My FAT partition is last IIRC23:59
Estel_yeaa, making it first would fix it, without drawbacks - microSd isn't hdd, so earlier partitions aren't faster23:59

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