IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-07-23

Estel_I tried with other N900 screen& fglex, no sign of life. OTOH, ym screen&flex work on this 2nd N900 no problem, so it's not broken flex00:00
FIQEstel_: ?00:00
Estel_my uneducated guess - somehow, my screen flex cable socket could get screwed. no visible marks, though.00:00
Estel_FIQ, thanks a lot!00:00
FIQEstel_: second result on google :)00:01
Estel_freemangordon, if data is lsot anyway when using oneclickflasher to pr1.2, there is basically no point in using update on-device, as You always need to use oneclickflasher afterwards? yep?00:01
Estel_FIQ, I feel ashamed ;)00:01
Estel_although I haven't though about using word "migrating", doesn't sound approriate00:01
Estel_it's rather "how save sanity when jumping from N900 to N950, and don't get mad on Ui unusability"00:02
Estel_and stock browser sucking hard00:02
Estel_my soul cries again, that Mer hardware adaptation for N950 and N9 never got finished to really usable state00:03
FIQEstel_: I googled "n950 meego wiki"00:03
Estel_I would like to kick harm in ass, badly00:03
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Estel_meego wasn't word that came to my mind too :P00:03
Estel_usually I'm not involved in necrophilia00:03
FIQfair enough00:03
Estel_so again, thanks a lot00:03
Estel_but honestly, I haven't searched almost at all, I just returned home from looong trip (work, not vacations :( )00:04
Estel_freemangordon, BTW, once You asked me why want to use RPi HDMI for N900 outside ED00:04
Estel_one possible reason - cause when using LXDE, external keyboard doesn't fuckin want to work at all except lowercase letters00:04
Zx432DocScrutinizer05: Are you still here?00:04
Estel_experienced it painfully00:04
FIQ(23:04:54) (Estel_) one possible reason - cause when using LXDE, external keyboard doesn't fuckin want to work at all except lowercase letters00:05
FIQdid you try holding shift when typing?00:06
Estel_FIQ, sure :P00:06
Estel_it's about keymap00:06
Estel_freemangordon, sorry for pestering, but could You re-look @ this and post before?00:06
FIQI know that when I used LXDE, the "sticky" mechanism usually seen in maemo didn't work at all, but holding shift worked fine00:06
Zx432hm I broke my N90000:06
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* FIQ has an alive N900, but it's starting to break apart since a few months ago00:07
Estel_FIQ, the trhing is, that ext keyboard works in Ed only when using BT_HD scripts, that sucks for any other case, and are mutually exclusive with freemangordon's extkbd, which rox for any case EXCEPT Easy Debian00:07
Zx432I have no graphics00:07
FIQand now the SIM reading is starting to fail... (still very occasionally and just a few seconds though)00:07
Estel_FIQ, once I had 8 N900';s in house00:07
Zx432no letters numbers nothing00:07
Estel_most are now in hands of family and relatives, some sold00:07
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Estel_Zx432, no, it's not broken00:08
Estel_just no optfs00:08
FIQI wouldn't mind buying a new one really :P00:08
Zx432how do I fix it?00:08
Estel_FIQ, ocassionaly, I have some in very good condition, with foil on screen, and reinforced USB port (by me) - reinforced, not replaced/repaired - for 180 euro00:08
Estel_all tested every possible way to ensure all components working, at least on point of selling them :P00:09
FIQEstel_: good to know00:09
Estel_If You need one, jusdt ping me, I can usually arrange one in about 2 weeks max00:09
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Estel_and by arrange I don't mean "locate and steal" :P00:09
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Estel_it's about buying in one of 3 nice shops with used electronic, in various location of my country00:10
FIQwell, I was going to find one in a swedish wannabe-ebay site when mine fails completely, but as that would probably be more expensive I'll remember that00:10
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Estel_Well, reinob and megaltralniak seems to be happy, they have already bought one from me ;)00:10
Estel_I can't recall english word for that - shop when people put their electronic and price for it, and shop,a fter selling take part of money00:11
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Estel_I'm finding used N900's in various condition (choosing only best ones) in suchlocal, not web-enabled shop00:11
FIQsecond hand?00:11
Estel_yea, but second hand is about used, generally00:11
Sicelow/in 2700:12
Estel_and this is where various people still own their things, they just "lend" shop to sell it00:12
Siceloeew. sorry about my spam tonight00:12
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freemangordonzeq: confirmed, with that commic sunspider scores 6734ms, without it 6060ms. Seems there are more to achieve the impressing 8900ms, but that is the first one00:14
freemangordonzeq: "HEAD is now at accdf55... Bug 753158 - emit ALIASEDVAR ops for upvars (r=bhackett)"00:15
povbotBug was not found.00:15
zeqfreemangordon: lower time is better00:15
freemangordoni know00:16
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zeqsorry misread00:16
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zeq(got a migraine in my defense)00:16
zeqI'll mention we were looking for recent regressions in sunspider performance and use your numbers.00:17
Estel_freemangordon, I think You could miss it, could You, at spare moment, re-look at and post before?00:17
Estel_I may be wrong, but it looks like not-too-much-work, so I dare to pester You :P00:18
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freemangordonEstel_: sorry, I really don;t have tim (and will) to look at that issue now, too much project, too little time :(00:24
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zeqfreemangordon: I've put manually stripped debs up now.00:26
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freemangordonzeq: debs?00:27
freemangordonhow did you do that?00:28
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zeqI manully stripped the libs with "strip --strip-unneeded"00:28
freemangordonI mean how do you package them00:29
infobotfreemangordon meant: I mean how did you package them00:29
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freemangordonanyway, not important, thanks00:30
freemangordonzeq: GF is here, gtg ;)00:30
zeqnight freemangordon :)00:30
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DocScrutinizer05Zx432: that's a sympthom of flashing eMMC without following it with flashing rootfs00:34
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Zx432oh ok00:35
Zx432Well it is still chrashing.00:35
DocScrutinizer05Zx432: I told you you need to flash COMBINED *again* after flashing VANILLA00:35
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, pong?00:49
Zx432seems to be fixed00:49
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: I was about to ask you if you could get me google glass, but it seems it's not even available to you (as an US citicen and developer)00:50
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, I'm getting it for me first, either way. :P00:50
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DocScrutinizer05compromise? you keep the glass brick with engraved serial number, I take the goggles?00:51
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: actually I made up my mind to apply at google for EE in glass labs00:53
Zx432it is working for at least 15 min now00:56
Zx432This is a new record.00:56
Zx432one thing00:57
Zx432it doesn't detect my sim00:58
Zx432should I upgrade?00:58
DocScrutinizer05you should use latest image for combined. I thought you did though00:58
Zx432seems like I made another mistake01:00
Zx432So upgrade?01:00
DocScrutinizer05upgrade to what?01:00
DocScrutinizer05sorry I don't get it01:00
DocScrutinizer05what do you plan to do exactly?01:01
Zx432the app manager is suggesting upgrade 1.2009.44-101:01
DocScrutinizer05hell, that sounds strange01:02
Zx432i have 1.2009.42.-1101:02
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you might have 1.3, yes01:02
DocScrutinizer05while recent is 1.3.101:03
DocScrutinizer05only available via upgrade in HAM, not by flashing01:03
DocScrutinizer05unrelated to SIM though :-/01:03
Zx432it works but my sim isn't detected...01:03
DocScrutinizer05did you say you had US version before?01:03
DocScrutinizer05Zx432: could you pastebin the full transscript of your flashing session of Vanilla and combined?01:05
Zx432I can paste all done in terminal today01:06
DocScrutinizer05not here!01:06
Zx432i know :) would get instabanned01:08
ZogGsomeone highlighted me here and i can't see who =)01:10
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Estel_freemangordon, np, i understand it. Damn, it's pity that I don't understand mechanics of possible fix you've mentioned, as LXDe rox when device connected to keyboard and mouse (and big screen)01:15
Estel_lack of working external keyboard basically kills the purpose (need to run everything Ed from Maemo, without LXDE)01:15
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Vibeconfigure:3460: gcc    conftest.c  >&501:20
Vibegcc: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory01:20
Vibeinstalled gcc-4.6 but needed to mv gcc-4.6 gcc01:21
Zx432DocScrutinizer05 have you managed to check the pastebin?01:22
Vibebinutils2.22 installed01:22
DocScrutinizer05still busy doing that01:22
Vibehmmm, trying to compile latest mosh on fremantle01:25
DocScrutinizer05Zx432: you used obsolete COMBINED01:28
DocScrutinizer05please download RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin01:29
DocScrutinizer05compare: root@kiborg-EP35C-DS3R:/home/kiborg/n900# ./maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R01:29
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Zx432seems to be vorking now01:43
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DocScrutinizer05I hope so01:45
Zx432now I need to update and get the old data back01:46
Zx432Thank you so much for all the help!01:46
Zx432I owe you a beer!01:46
Vibemissed basic binutils, but still problems01:47
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Vibeneeded binutils package, binutils2.22 didn't work02:01
Vibenow getting -> configure:3461: gcc    conftest.c  >&502:02
Vibeld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots02:02
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Zx432OK I am off good night.02:04
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DocScrutinizer05Vibe: what the heck are you trying to accomplish?02:24
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Vibehi DocScrutinizer0502:25
Vibetrying to compile mosh on n90002:25
DocScrutinizer05*ON* n900? :-o02:25
Vibeyes and to n90002:25
Vibecompiled fine on raspberry pi02:26
DocScrutinizer05common notion is N900 rootfs is way too small to hold all needed tools and libs for that02:26
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Vibeohh, ok02:26
DocScrutinizer05there are some freaks actually compiling stuff on N900, but they all had a hard time getting tools and libs installed02:27
Vibetheres old version for maemo ->
Vibetrying to get latest 1.2.2 version working on n90002:27
DocScrutinizer05usually you get stuff installed in a chroot on /home02:31
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DocScrutinizer05since optification will give you lots and lots of headaches at compile time02:31
DocScrutinizer05Vibe: you're aware the 'normal' way is to build stuff in scratchbox on PC?02:33
Vibeoh, nope02:33
Vibenever done that :p02:33
Vibetried to use bin from rpi but didn't work cos different lib versions02:34
Vibebut ok I will look into scratchbox02:34
x29aif the n900 battery cant even boot the rescuesystem for the charger script, is my only option to find someone with an n900 that can charge my battery?02:35
DocScrutinizer05err yep02:35 seems to be down..02:36
x29aVibe: works for me02:36
Vibenow it works :p02:36
DocScrutinizer05>>Developing applications for Maemo is done with the Maemo SDK. <<02:38
x29adocScrutinizer: is this true? the low battery loop will eventually get enough juice in it to power up?02:40
Vibeits links to Maemo 4.1 Diablo02:40
Vibedoes it work with fremantle?02:40
DocScrutinizer05x29a: err, wut?02:41
DocScrutinizer05Vibe: nope, the top link to SDK is a page with mameo5 SDK listed as latest02:41
x29athat dude claims that when you have your fon sit in the low battery reboot loop for a couple of hours, it will eventually somehow charge enough for it to fully boot up02:41
DocScrutinizer05a) there's no such loop02:42
DocScrutinizer05b) if there actually is (due to borked battery or whatever) it won't magically fix after a few hours02:42
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DocScrutinizer05please correct that statement on tmo!02:43
x29aDocScrutinizer05: not magically. it might be, that within the bootup process, the charging actually works. which i didnt believe. and there is definately a loop as the device will power down on low battery. doesnt have to be borked02:43
x29astill keeping the open mind, arentya?02:44
DocScrutinizer05there are like 4 incorrect assumptions in one senstence02:44
VibeDocScrutinizer05: ok, thx! I will look at that later, now to sleep02:45
x29ayep, once again not beeing helpful, if you dont plan on sharing your (obviously way to big) knowledge, why not hold back in the first place?02:45
DocScrutinizer05if battery is *completely* flat, the sequence is: emergency charge via hardware kicks in (you can tell by steady amber LED). Eventually boot threshold gets reached and cpu loads NOLO,. NOLO in turn will load linux and linux will start bme which continues software supervided charging (you can tell from amber flashing LED)02:46
DocScrutinizer05otherwise, fsckoff if you can't wait until I finish typing02:47
infobotmaemo-flashing is, like,
DocScrutinizer05I'm not obliged to help you out02:47
x29aDocScrutinizer05: device is hooked up to external PSU, tries to boot, doesnt have enough battery power to get into OS, will be turned off (nowhere did i assume its a feature, not just a reaction from an empty battery), charger will try to boot the device back up, same again, some people call that a loop. my assumption was, that this will even worsen the situation, therefore i was mildly confused by that guys statement02:47
x29aDocScrutinizer05: no, of course you are not, but you might just as well be nice to people and not be the grumpy dude you are all along02:48
DocScrutinizer05dudes like you leave me grumpy02:48
x29aactio -> reactio02:48
DocScrutinizer05pissing my leg for no obvious reason. TNXKBY02:48
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x29aDocScrutinizer05: using strong language for no obvious reason? violating logic for no obvious reason? bitching about feedback for no obvious reason? i just hope that there are lots of missunderstandings due to translation and transcription involved and you actually get along with people in real life02:52
DocScrutinizer05I get along with ignoring you, sir02:53
DocScrutinizer05while you ponder who's ignoring logic here02:53
x29aa) there's no such loop b) if there actually is02:54
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DocScrutinizer05oh great! your logic consists of breaking statements into pieces02:54
DocScrutinizer05meaningles pieces02:55
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DocScrutinizer05there's a ~10s gap between hw emergency charging, during NOLO->linux->bme, until bme starts sw supervised charging. A terribly broken battery will cause a loop as voltage drops too much during that timespan. As well as a broken or deleted bme (or linux at large) will obviously extend that period infinitely until battery depletes to system sgutdown. None of these problems gets magically fixed after a few hours of brainless looping02:59
x29athanks for jumping over your shadow and actually providing background info03:00
DocScrutinizer05there's neither any charger booting any system, nor is there a deliberately implemented loop of any kind03:00
x29ai dont think the batt is broken, just really empty (hasnt been charged for a couple of months), so i might be lucky with the emergency charging?03:01
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover03:01
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x29aas stated before, i didnt intend to imply that the loop was a feature03:01
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jacekowskii'm just in process of recovering phone left off for 4 months03:16
jacekowskiand it's not recovering03:16
jacekowskiit looks like battery is proper fucked this time03:16
x29ai got mine working =)03:19
x29asry for your loss though03:19
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jacekowskiit's a company blackberry and i only use it when i go abroad03:21
jacekowskiso it's only turned on once every 2-4months for week03:21
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x29aah, not an n90003:23
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DocScrutinizer05LiIon deep discharge is terminal by definition (defined in protective circuit)03:41
DocScrutinizer05Warning paper for LiIon says "never try to charge a cell that has less than $2.5V cell voltage". Protective circuit in battery enforces that03:42
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: ^^^03:43
FIQ|n900at least if you want a good healthy life03:44
DocScrutinizer05the prot chip not only stops discharge at $3.0V, it also cuts charging on $2.5V<Vbat>$4.5V03:45
DocScrutinizer05from Vbat>$4,5V you recover by discharging. You don't recover from Vbat<$2.5V03:46
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: I got an interesting/annoying recharge incident when the Standard Nokia wall-charger failed to recharge a n900 overnight. I wondered if the mains vltage might be squiffy (in in SEAsia)03:48
jpinxit recharged happily in the next village...  ;)03:48
DocScrutinizer05there are known incidents of bme or some of the related systems freaking out and thus not charging properly03:49
DocScrutinizer05sometimes system doesn't detect plugged in charger (to some extent)03:50
DocScrutinizer05then it won't charge03:50
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jpinxyea - something like that - the light comes on but there's nobody home....03:51
FIQ|n900speaking of n900 charging, charging with powerkernel always fail with a phone shut off for some reason03:51
FIQ|n900(with the normal, it turns on and start charging)03:51
FIQ|n900never got the idea of why it did that03:51
DocScrutinizer05bme can't open bq27200 via I2C device when the bq27200.ko got modprobed. It segfaults, gets restarted by dsme, until dsme says screwit and reboots03:54
DocScrutinizer05or it's something completely different ;-)03:55
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jacekowskithat's correct04:01
jacekowskidevice claimed in kernel can't be touched from userland04:01
luke-jrcould possibly setup a boot script to unbind it fwiw04:01
jonwilThats why the BME replacement is important :)04:04
jonwilwill end all these problems for good04:04
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jpinxI've created quite a lot of desktop shortcuts on the n900 and I'd like to copy them (or at least the urls) over to my laptop. Where are they in the n900?04:20
jpinxI'm ssh'd into the n900 as root over usb04:22
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x29ajpinx: have you checked /usr/share/applications/hildon ?04:27
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jpinxx29a: thanks.. :)04:30
jpinxx29a: that appears to be applications, there is no list of urls saved as shortcuts04:36
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infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was
jonwilwow, more of this stuff is documented than I thought06:29
jonwilicd2-osso-ic-dev and osso-wlan-dev are very helpful :)06:29
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jonwilpali: ping10:38
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Palijonwil, pong10:38
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jonwilno response from any of the various Nokia/Ex-Nokia addresses you emailed I take it?10:39
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Palijonwil, bme dev wrote me that when he will be in work he ask about adcin0 temperature10:49
Paliand from opensource request no answer....10:50
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jonwilyou asked opensource guy about the prolog stuff right?10:54
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Palijonwil, yes10:57
Palibut I wrote that I think I'm on black/spam list10:58
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Paliit will be really usefull if somebody other send mail too...10:58
Pali(mail from different FROM)10:58
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jonwilI take it you had no luck getting the browser guys to share the browser UI code?11:17
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Palijonwil, problem is that he cannot publish browser ui code without nokia...11:30
jonwilhmmm yeah :(11:30
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Palibut browser-ui code does not have IPR stuff...11:34
Paliinfobot, ping11:34
Paliinfobot, ipr11:35
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Paliinfobot, IPR is Intellectual Property Rights11:35
infobotPali: okay11:35
jonwilyou mean that browser-ui is unencumbered by 3rd party IP nokia doesn't own the rights to11:35
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Palino, browser ui is IP free code11:36
zeqfreemangordon: good, but strange news.  qt4-x11 builds fine now with the more agressive flags I used to build fennec!?! Interestingly, QML seems to be even faster.11:40
zeqwith linaro-4.7 I mean11:43
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freemangordonzeq: hmm, maybe we can think of some benchmarking11:55
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zeqfreemangordon: I don't know if you installed any of the packages I made yesterday, but I've rebuilt them after I realised the debhelper utilities I was using were the debian-etch devkit versions, and it wasn't apparently correctly creating/storing the libarary dependencies in the .deb.12:01
* zeq curses12:01
zeqthat hasn't solved it :S12:01
freemangordonI didn't use any .deb12:02
zeqfreemangordon: can you help? What I said above was true, but...  I noticed about the devkit deb tools after I tried to build a package and it said dh_clean couldn't handle above version 5.12:03
zeqSo I removed the devkit from the list and tried again with the version installed in scratchbox.12:04
zeqThat solved that problem, but introduced another.12:04
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zeqNow I can't build qt4-x11 against libstdc++ because I get an error from dpkg-shlibdeps about no dependency information:12:06
* zeq is rebuilding qt4-x11 to get the exact error message12:08
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StyXman_zeq: the goal is to update the build system?12:10
zeqStyXman_: As I said ^^ my scratchbox was using debian-etch devkit, but that didn't handle a package I tried to build (debhelper too old)12:12
zeqStyXman_: as I have the SDK versions installed, I tried removing the devkit, and using the installed debian versions of the build tools.12:13
infobotzeq meant: StyXman_: as I have the SDK versions installed, I tried removing the devkit, and using the installed maemo versions of the build tools.12:13
StyXman_ah, ok12:14
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StyXman_they're both old, anyways12:14
zeqwell, that solved the immediate problem, but introduced a new one12:15
zeqif it doesn't hurry up and finish I might run out of time (my sister is getting married this afternoon!)12:19
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freemangordonzeq: congrats12:23
freemangordon(or whatever you say in your place :) )12:23
zeqfreemangordon: thanks! :D12:24
zeqdpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/ (used by debian/libqt4-core/usr/lib/
zeqdh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 51212:30
zeqmake: *** [binary-predeb-IMPL/libqt4-core] Error 112:30
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freemangordonzeq: did you install -devel package?12:41
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freemangordonzeq: actually both libstdc++.deb and libstdc++-devel.deb?12:42
StyXman_freemangordon: I thinbk it wouldn't compile otherwise12:43
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zeqfreemangordon: I'm pretty sure I did :S12:51
zeqthis worked with the devkit12:52
zeqyes it is installed12:57
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zeqokay, still just about here. What provides shlib dependencies? is it something that should be set in the debain/rules for gcc?13:12
jonwilif only the cellular services daemon was as well documented as the internet connectivity daemon13:13
zeqI guess I need to add a call to dpkg-shlibdeps into the sb-toolchain system13:17
zeqright, I'm off now, see you tommorow guys!13:20
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zeqgot a little more time, gf taking a while with her hair :P13:53
zeq^ so it should have shlibs...?13:57
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zeqthe rules file includes: dh_makeshlibs -plibstdc++6 -V 'libstdc++6 (>= $(SB_VER))'14:00
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Paliping freemangordon14:24
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zeq1I think I've worked it out. dpkg-makeshlibs is failing when it finds the file but that's apparently not fatal.14:46
zeq1it should only be in the dbg deb anyway.14:46
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freemangordonPali: pong15:00
Palifreemangordon, kp51 is in -devel but has bug which cause rmmod bq2415x_charger to reboot device15:01
PaliI will try to fix it and push new version15:01
freemangordonok :). after all a victory over autobuilder worths several reboots :D15:02
Palidriver is by default blacklisted15:02
Paliso I found it after disabled new usb host mode15:02
Palialso what about creating new project on gitorious "bme-rx51-replacement" and push here all code about bme & hostmode?15:03
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freemangordonPali: feel free to create it, add me as an developer here. I will push libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme later on15:07
infobotfreemangordon meant: Pali: feel free to create it, add me as an developer there. I will push libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme later on15:07
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freemangordonPali: or you can push it too, all the code is in my repo15:08
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keriowhew, i'm on the good side of the split15:09
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JaffaAfternoon, all17:49
GeneralAntillesWelcome back, Jaffa.17:49
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teotwakisup GeneralAntilles & Jaffa17:51
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Weirdness with my machine running etherpad seem to have been resolved.18:07
GeneralAntillesSo I see.18:08
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: But I'm swamped at work :-(18:10
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I got it.18:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ta18:12
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teotwakiJaffa: you end up having issues as well?18:23
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Jaffateotwaki: The process was running amok, but lots of other processes on the machine were too (other Java processes, Ruby, ...)18:26
Jaffateotwaki: Upgrading some things, playing with some config files and a reboot seem to have helped18:27
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teotwakiJaffa: how much are you paying for your server?18:28
teotwakiand how big is it?18:28
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Jaffateotwaki: It's 72gbp per month (split 9 ways). AMD Athlon II X2 240e (2 cores at 2.8GHz), 2GiB RAM, 2 x 500GB 7.2kRPM SATA discs18:31
Jaffa78, sorry18:32
teotwakicool :)18:32
teotwakiI got myself a little one from kimsufi18:32
teotwakidual core atom CPU (so not very gutsy or anything), 2GB RAM, 1TB HDD (no idea of disk speed), unlimited 100Mbit/s up/down link.18:33
GeneralAntillesJaffa, when is it going to attempt to publish next?18:33
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: On the hour18:45
GeneralAntillesJaffa, if I have one LeadIn with ... I'm OK, though, right?18:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Correct. Or an incorrect section18:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Or an invalid username18:46
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: So I tend to do Section=frontx to temporarily disable publishing18:47
GeneralAntillesOK, I'm going to go with section=jaffa4tsg18:47
kerioteotwaki: wait, what18:49
kerioteotwaki: so it's basically like a really good seedbox18:51
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teotwakikerio: well, I use it for that as well18:55
kerioi want one18:55
keriobut the UK scares me18:55
teotwakiIt's in France.18:55
teotwakinot a problem18:56
teotwakiHadopi states that the 3 strikes law only applies to internet connections18:56
teotwakiand a server does not qualify.18:56
keriooh, neat18:56
teotwakiI'm in France.18:56
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teotwakiAnd I've downloaded some 40Gigs in a week or so.18:56
teotwakiSeeded nearly 1TB.18:56
teotwakiOnly Linux distributions, obviously... All the Debian CDs and DVDs...18:57
teotwakiRX bytes:49302457076 (47.2 GiB)  TX bytes:89992191135 (85.1 GiB)18:58
teotwakiSorry, 100GB.18:58
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ShadowXHas anyone compiled cryptopp on Maemo?19:08
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teotwakiShadowX: I remember doing so a very long time ago19:13
teotwakiShadowX: please note that even on an i5, if you use an old gcc version, the linking process can take in excess of 40 minutes.19:13
ShadowXGot the package anywhere ?19:13
teotwakinope, just compiled from source, probably flashed the phone on which I did it also19:13
ShadowXye ye ...i was compiling it on my n900 :D think how much time it took :D19:13
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ShadowXand in the end it failed :P19:13
teotwakiit did?19:13
ShadowXmm sec, i'll pastebin it19:14
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teotwaki(I have to compile cryptopp nearly twice a day on debian sarge...)19:14
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teotwakiyeah, you're stuffed.19:15
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teotwakiTry this patch to the GNUMakefile19:17
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ShadowXnope :S19:25
ShadowXcompile fails again :/19:25
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Palikernel-power v51 (r1) is now in extras-devel, see:
ShadowXcool :)))19:28
keriogood indeed!19:28
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ShadowXbtw is there anyway to make it possible to multitask on incomming calls ?19:30
ShadowXon outgoing calls you can switch between apps , on incomming - not :(19:30
freemangordonshortcutd? ctrl-backspace?19:30
kerioyou mean while it's ringing?19:30
ShadowXkerio, yes.19:31
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I think it's ready to go if you want to manually push it.19:31
kerioShadowX: just hang up19:31
keriopeople suck, anyway19:31
ShadowXwithout hanging up :D19:31
ShadowX+1 :D19:31
ShadowXfreemangordon, crtl+backspace don't work while the incomming call is on 'Ringing' phase.19:32
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freemangordonhmm, and what about shortcutd? could be something in hildon-desktop though, done by design19:33
ShadowXI think the difference is that incomming call window is notification-like ,not separate window ....19:34
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keriodefullscreen it19:35
keriowmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen19:35
ShadowXmmm....i gatta try this :)19:37
ShadowXwmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen <pid>  ? or ?19:37
keriowmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -b toggle,fullscreen19:38
kerio:ACTIVE: is a special window name that wmctrl uses to refer to the current window19:38
ShadowXoh :D cool.... this will go into my dbus-scripts19:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ta19:38
ShadowX10q :)19:38
kerioShadowX: i have that executed by shortcutd on long press19:39
kerioit's neat19:39
JaffaGeneralAntilles: "Unknown user: [x-fade]" ;-)19:39
JaffaGeneralAntilles: No dash.19:39
ShadowX^^ even better idea, so I can use it everywhere :)19:39
GeneralAntillesI always forget.19:39
kerioShadowX: some applications get confused though19:39
kerioso you end up with menu bar and no toolbar and/or viceversa19:40
keriowhich is useful, for microB19:40
ShadowXi see. Okay. Thanks a lot, this is quite useful !19:40
ShadowXWitch brings me back to my cryptopp problem :/19:40
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strohalmmy display get broken, have anyone an idea where i can get a working one (in central europe)?19:49
Estel_strohalm, ebay, your local wanna-be-ebay site, or some repair center?19:52
* jonwil is in the process of pulling together all known information about the various dbus things the N900 sends with the plan to create a wiki page collating all the information19:52
Estel_DocScrutinizer, or anyone knowledgeable enough about N900 hardware parts - could You, please, tell me what do you know abot screen's flat cable socket (this one in *motherboard* side, not plug)?19:52
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Estel_I suspect, that my device might "die" totally, due to such socket being broken, but from looking, it doesn't look damaged at all19:53
strohalmokay when no special source exist i give ebay another try. the last time there where only stuff to be delivered with hongkong post19:53
Estel_I remember DocScrutinizer writing about some lame things in flat cable *plug* - i.e. flat cable squeezed there with solder joints...19:53
Estel_but, is there any thing that could get "invisibly" desoldered in flat cable socket on motherboard?19:54
Estel_problem definitely started after I've soldered broken connection (external one) on IR diode. Both sides of this diode are plates, connected to motherboard equivalents19:54
Estel_one of them was broken, thus no IR working.19:54
Estel_I've soldered this plate to whole again, and IR worked, as rest of device, but it started to show strange behavior immediately after fix19:55
Estel_I'm almsot sure I haven't destroyed anything, I was extra careful, but I was repairing it with 100W soldering iron without thermal regulation (trying to be blazing fast with touching). Nothing looked lie heated too much, but...19:55
Estel_device acted strangely, and next day just refused to show any sign of life. Only one situation, when I know N900 (without obviously being damaged by truck) acts like that, is when no flat cable is connected. I've filtered out possibility of broken flat cable or anything in screen slide module19:56
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Estel_freemangordon, I'm trying to fix, at least in "ugly" way, this prblem with lxde and keyboard. Could You, please, tell me, why such dramatic changes to directories holding keyboard profiles, are needed for xkbd?20:11
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Estel_I mean, that xkbd does backup, and then, replaces them20:11
Estel_if I try to use exact same files inside debian chroot (copied to /.debian/normal_poath_including_rx-51), N900's hardware keyboard doesn't workj properly (only lowercase letters), but external keyboard start to work, reportedly20:12
Estel_of course I could prepare scripts that backup and replace files on demand, but I'm searching for more conveinent way20:13
freemangordonEstel_: because that is how I do a backup20:13
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Estel_freemangordon, what exactly xkbd sets up in Hildon in order to use proper keyboard layout from definition files? Couldn't similar thing be done in xephyr?20:14
freemangordonEstel_: nothing, all is setup through HAL20:14
Estel_I tried to investigate sources line by line, and I can't get how qole's bt hd scripts achieve that via setxkbmap without breaking other things, and how to replicate it in extkbd20:15
Estel_it's irrational, that those packages are exclusive, I mean that I can't find any reason why merging them into one program shouldn't work - yet, I can't find a way to preserve (better) extkbd with only adding part of bt hd scripts, that control lxde behavior20:16
Estel_any pointers? You seemed to have idea, just lack of time and will20:16
freemangordonEstel_: forget about setxkbmap20:19
freemangordonuse HAL .fdi script, lemme try to find an example20:19
freemangordonEstel_: BTW could you explain the problem once again, so I am in line20:21
PaliEstel_, can you ask qgil about osso-backup and powertop?20:21
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keriohm, what are levels 5 to 8 in the xkb map for languages like russian?20:22
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Estel_Pali, I can't, as I'm  not Councilor anymore. Ask current council, ok? sorry.20:23
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Estel_freemangordon, problem is that, with extkbd, external keyboard works well in Maemo, but when inside Easy Debian's LXDE (or any desktop enviromnent, using xephyr), only lowercase letters work on external keyboard20:23
Estel_no numbers, no special characters, no uppercase letters20:23
PaliEstel_, but qgil wrote that he inform you...20:24
Estel_Pali, I haven't had any message from qgil about that. Maybe he mean that he informs Council via mail, but I don't have access to it anymore20:24
Estel_freemangordon, OTOH, qole's bt-hd scripts package makes external keyboard working on any case in easy debian's LXDE, but it sucks in any other case, compared to extkbd and extmou :)20:25
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Estel_Pali, could You quote what qgil exactly wrote and where, about informing me?20:25
Estel_and when, it's most important question20:25
Estel_I'll gladly help to settle this missunderstanding20:26
freemangordonEstel_: aah, ok. lemme check my ED with extkbd20:26
Estel_(just re-checked my mailbox and Pm box)20:26
Estel_freemangordon, sure20:26
Estel_thanks a lot for looking into this20:26
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Paliok, I will write email to qgil20:27
Estel_Pali, if You remember when and what he exactly said, I can try to help too :)20:27
Estel_was it after Council's circus, or before?20:28
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Estel_dafuq? My new 32 microSd SanDisk class 4 reports full disk immediately (before starting to copy files, actually), when I try to copy 27Gb into it (it reports 29,7 free), but smaller files go there without problem? WTFi, could someone sell me fake card with lower capacity?20:30
befordhappens all the time20:31
keriospace reserved for the superuser? \_o_/20:31
keriobeford: the system wouldn't *know* about it20:31
ShadowJKvfat formatted cards have limit of 128 files in the root directory of the card, and 2 gig limit per file20:31
befordyea, thats right, it would just corrupt the data or something20:31
kerioit was ENOSPACE, not EIO20:32
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befordI think its <4gb, but i could be wrong20:32
kerioit's 2GiB20:32
keriosigned arithmetic, ho!20:32
freemangordon4g is for fat32 iirc20:32
befordi win20:32
Estel_ShadowJK, thanks, of course it's 4Gb file limit, I'm an idiot (someone told me that already, eh?) ;)20:33
Estel_(it's fat32 currently)20:33
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Estel_BTw, ShadowJK, I wanted to send You log from charging You've requested, but I haven't managed to do it before my N900 died20:33
Estel_(it seems that it died due to things unrelated to charging with 1250)20:34
keriohm, apparently it's UINT32_MAX bytes20:35
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kerioso 4GiB - 1B20:35
Estel_freemangordon, tried to disassemble N950 already?20:36
freemangordonno :D20:40
freemangordonEstel_: setxkbmap bg -print | xkbcomp - :1 does the job somehow20:40
freemangordonbg is for Bulgarion, replace it accordingly20:40
Estel_freemangordon, I try to figure this screw's type, it isn't torx apparently. Eh, time to download datasheets20:40
Estel_wait wait, setxkbmap from Maemo or inside chroot?20:41
Estel_0_o I knew what I do trying to pester You yesterday, instead of spending day trying to achieve this on my own :P20:41
freemangordon:1 is xephir or whatever X server is called20:42
* Estel_ just hanged over his N900 to test it, just to notice, again, that device is dead... #$%$#R^20:42
Estel_so just calling this one command from extkbd every time new keyboard is connected would fix it? (as long as ED is running) Or just after starting LXDE?20:42
Estel_any side effects noticed?20:42
Estel_RiD, dead as per cold dead device20:43
Estel_no signs of life whatsoever20:43
Estel_no led, no framebuffer, no sign of life when connected to USB, no anything :(20:43
Estel_and no idea why so20:43
RiDwhat did you dok20:43
Estel_repaired IR diode :D20:43
RiDso ir works20:43
Estel_no seriously, it worked after that, but acted strangely.20:43
RiDbut device doesnt20:43
Estel_no, when it stopped to work next day, Ir doesn't work to0 :P20:44
freemangordonEstel_: you should call that OUTSIDE extkbd, it is not extkbd's job to deal with other oses keyboard mappings.20:44
RiDi just hope i dont screw my usb ;)20:44
freemangordonOn the other hand I can probide some hooks20:44
Estel_freemangordon, yea, something like putting it as part of thing starting LXDE sounds sane, I think20:44
RiDit's so loose it makes me sh_t everytime i plug it into something20:44
Estel_freemangordon, hm?20:44
Estel_Rid, reinforce it at once ;)20:44
freemangordonEstel_: it is not so simple, how you're going to deal with language switching?20:45
RiDno, if i do that i end up having your device20:45
RiDfixed usb and screwed everything else20:45
Estel_freemangordon, setxkbmap from inside LXDE won't handle it?20:45
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Estel_RiD, I reinforced many USb ports without problems. It suspect something re flat cable socket on motherboard got screwed20:45
freemangordonEstel_: so your problem was that you were trying to setxkbmap on :0?20:46
Estel_freemangordon, no, of course not\20:46
freemangordonthen I still fail to see what was wrong. Not using xkbcomp ?20:46
RiDthe problem is in the owner, hehe20:46
Estel_generally, I've maemo's rx-51 file copied to ED's one, so hardware keyboard mapping from Maemo works flawlessly inside LXDE20:46
Estel_I have my language mapping via setxkbmap pl in LXDe autostart script20:47
freemangordonaah, I see20:47
Estel_(inside chroot)20:47
Estel_it works for internal keyboard, but when I connect external one (BT, usb, doesn't matter)20:47
freemangordonusing my methot you don't need to copy files20:47
Estel_yea, it seems so20:47
RiDEstel_: i will pay you 10€ if you reinforce mine, but you'll have to deal with the shipping costs20:48
RiD(somewhere around 30 :D)20:48
Estel_...external keyboard works fine inside Maemo OR for ED programs started from maemo without LXDE as middleman, but wasn't working inside LXDE20:48
freemangordonat all?20:48
Estel_RiD, reinforcing is 50 USd + shipping :D20:48
Estel_freemangordon, no, just letter worked, lower-case20:48
RiDno ty i'll do it my own20:48
* RiD breaks his n900 in 2 pieces20:48
Estel_inside LXDE only, of course20:49
RiDsigh have to go20:49
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Estel_in Maemo, everything was fine20:49
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Estel_OTOH, mouse via extmou was working equally fine on Maemo and inside LXDE20:49
freemangordonhmm, i see one problem (from my stupid user POV), you need to switch LXDE's keyboard layout from within Maemo20:50
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freemangordonand blue symbols does not work20:51
freemangordonon internal KBD20:51
freemangordonanyway, I'm back to kernel-cssu20:52
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Estel_freemangordon, thanks. Normally, when using external keyboard, I don't use internal (at the same time)20:53
Estel_but but, how to revert it?20:53
Estel_lets say I disconnect it in urge and put my n900 into pocket - without restarting LXDE20:54
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freemangordonEstel_: revert? setxkbmap nokia-rx51 or something :P20:55
Estel_thanks, will try when I'll have working device20:55
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vi__why does the n900 gps accracy suck?22:28
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freemangordonvi__: wut?22:29
Gh0stybecause of solar flares, the lunar shift, magnetic radiation ...22:29
Estel_vi_, it doesn't suck, just sucks22:29
Gh0stytry with a tinfoil hat for better reception!22:30
freemangordonor better put it in the basement22:30
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Estel_freemangordon, re tinfoil hat, do you also experience N950 loses sewere ammount of signal, when held "incorrectly"?22:33
Estel_especially, as compared to N900 angle tolerance?22:33
freemangordonfor WiFi - deffinitely22:33
Estel_turning it upside down happens to increase signal by 70%, sometimes, for me22:33
Estel_I wonder if they screwed alu body design22:33
Estel_and it's acting like wrong reflector22:34
freemangordonblack aluminium body :P22:34
Estel_ha, ha ha. I'm going to do it better :P22:34
Estel_hoped for stealing some of their idea, but it seems, that it's not an option22:34
freemangordonwell, will see :D22:34
Estel_I hoped that they did it best :p22:34
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freemangordonmaybe that's the best22:34
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Estel_best would be to put antennas in surface "after" alu body, not cut two holes on sides22:35
Estel_in 1st examnple, signal would be always reflected to antennas22:35
Estel_now, you need to "aim" correct side @ signal source22:35
Estel_or alu body in the middle reflects it before it reaches antenna22:35
freemangordonwell, could be, I am not much into radiowawes22:36
Estel_i.e. you need either to aim by exposing N950's back to signal, or, best, correct side22:36
Estel_I'm quite much into it. Well, maybe i'lkl fix it for N950 custom body, someday :P22:36
Estel_and put 10a battery there :P22:36
Estel_judging by decreased thickness, one could put muuuch there, keeping no more thickness than N900 and mugen cover22:37
Estel_freemangordon, and what's about Your view for N950 as main device? fmtx (lack of) is still blocker, or other things too?22:37
freemangordonI told you, it is nice, but hildon is muuch better for me22:38
Estel_sorry, missed it22:38
Estel_same here22:38
freemangordonyeah, really, very nice device22:39
freemangordonbrowser is not that bad at all22:39
Estel_and this sad feeling of wasted potential in many places... :P22:39
freemangordonyeah :(22:39
Estel_like good book :P22:39
Estel_browser isn't bad? It was first thing that haven't allowed me to pay for house22:39
Estel_even symbian handled it correctly (bank website)22:40
Estel_and N900 btowser open new pages much faster, despite lack of RAM :(22:40
freemangordonEstel_: I told you to upgrade the firmware, ain't?22:41
Estel_ouh, got me on that22:41
freemangordonbrowser in P.R1.2 has nothing to do with the one in pre-beta22:41
freemangordonjust flash the damn firmware at once :P22:42
freemangordonbut be careful to flash PR 1.222:42
Estel_aye, sir!22:42
freemangordonthe page is very misleading22:42
Estel_which page?:D22:43
Estel_damn, I cry for proper wiki22:43
Estel_time to move my ass and run through countless thread and do 325435043 marked tabs, as now I feel little lost22:44
freemangordonEstel_: the one on nokis site with firmwares22:45
Estel_freemangordon, any point where You started to gather knowledge for tweaking N950?22:45
Estel_aye, noticed that22:45
freemangordonsorry, cant help22:46
Estel_for N900, it is wiki, where you also have many pointers to TMO thread, and so goes on22:46
Estel_no problem22:46
freemangordonyou'd better ask on #harmattan22:46
Estel_tried that, no one knows (sic!)22:46
Estel_I was surprised to see you're not there22:46
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-23 18:55:50] <Estel_> I'm almsot sure I haven't destroyed anything, I was extra careful, but I was repairing it with 100W soldering iron without thermal regulation (trying to be blazing fast with touching). Nothing looked lie heated too much, but...22:49
Estel_like8 instead of *lie*, sorry22:50
DocScrutinizer05...but the capacitive coupled mains 220V killed several chips22:50
Estel_freemangordon, part of my question about psosible thing with flkat cable socket on n900 motherboard22:50
freemangordonyeah, I know22:50
Estel_freemangordon, I was on trip, nothing better there :op22:50
DocScrutinizer05you should have unplugged it from mains before soldering22:51
Estel_DocScrutinizer, it was resistive soldering iron, not transformer one :p22:51
Estel_ah, I see22:51
Estel_well, killed chips shouldn't work from start?22:51
Estel_it's possible, i don't say you're talking bullshit...22:51
Estel_but I'm wondering why it worked 1 day22:51
freemangordoneven worse, usually the heater is not well insulated22:51
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DocScrutinizer05a small damage grows22:52
Estel_also, few killed chips should allow to at least "try" starting device (white led, etc)22:52
Estel_I know i shouldn't do anything without my gas powered iron :(22:52
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DocScrutinizer05anyway inficator LED should still flash a tiny bit on plugging in charger22:52
Estel_probably, you're right. What makes me wonder is that it should at least show smallest signs of life. I've seen such no life only, when one day I forget to connect screen module via flat cable22:53
Estel_DocScrutinizer, 0 sign of life, that's the thing22:53
Estel_not even tiny bit of flash22:53
DocScrutinizer05then it could actually be the FPC B2B socket22:53
vi__DocScrutinizer05: wait, what.  A soldering iron is capacitivly coupled to the work piece?22:53
Estel_i.e. flat cable socket?22:53
vi__but most of the energy is converted to heat!22:54
DocScrutinizer05vi__: sure thing, the heating capsule is in a tube of metal and that forms a capacitor22:54
Estel_for some twisted reasons, they've designed it in a way, that - when no flat cable with screen is connected - it doesn't show signs of lie22:54
freemangordonvi__: could be coupled to mains, depending on the tyoe22:54
Estel_I don't see any visible marks of damage on socket...22:54
Estel_freemangordon, i'm not such idiot to solder it with soldering iron coupled to main by design22:54
freemangordonnot saying thar22:55
Estel_I know22:55
DocScrutinizer05vi__: connect a standard soldering iron to a outlet without PE and touch it with a phase tester22:55
freemangordona finger will do the job too :P22:55
DocScrutinizer05you'll see sth like 110V ~ there22:55
infobot!!!!!!!!!!!lleH .... llA ..... sA ..... gnitatirrI   .....s'tI  !!!!!!!!!!!noitautcnuP   !!!!!hcuM  !!!!!oS  !!!!gnisU  !!!potS22:55
Estel_DocScrutinizer, what do You know about this socket in motherboard? is it designed in some stupid way, or if I see solder points not damaged, it's ok?22:55
DocScrutinizer05I don't think the socket is particularly nasty or sneaky22:56
DocScrutinizer05just made for 10 rounds22:56
Estel_well, I looked at it with magnifying glass, and it looked ok...22:56
Estel_I agree it's bitchy thing for connecting it...22:57
vi__I like it.22:57
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo pe22:57
infobotpe -- created by dondelelcaro <> at Thu Jan  2 00:57:24 2003 (3490 days); it has been requested 3 times, last by vi__, 1m 59s ago.22:57
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DocScrutinizer05~literal pe22:58
infobot"pe" is "<reply> !!!!!!!!!!!lleH .... llA ..... sA ..... gnitatirrI   .....s'tI  !!!!!!!!!!!noitautcnuP   !!!!!hcuM  !!!!!oS  !!!!gnisU  !!!potS"22:58
vi__I wish I knew as much about harmattan as I did fremantle.  Having to start over sucks.22:58
Estel_stop using so much puncuation? ;)22:58
DocScrutinizer05protective earth22:58
DocScrutinizer05the usually green-yellow wire22:58
Estel_vi_, welcome in my world, but don't worry, it doesn't suck22:58
Estel_I'm also searching for knowledge base22:58
vi__Estel_: the UI sucks.22:59
Estel_DocScrutinizer, this soldering iron had pe22:59
DocScrutinizer05doesn't really help22:59
Estel_vi_, it's sucks as hell (although, as freemangordon said, be sure to update)22:59
freemangordonwell, it suck if you come from fremantle22:59
freemangordonif you come from android, who knows ;)22:59
Estel_well, it's possible that I'm idiot and destroyed my device this way, I got used to comfort of soldering with gas powered thing for years22:59
Estel_freemangordon, true23:00
Estel_well, maybe qwazix and co will suceed in running full hildon on harm :)23:00
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vi__Estel_: I have already updated to 1.2.  Got the bootloop. flashed to 1.2.  Installed open mode kernel.  Got fucked in the ass by aegis.23:00
Estel_still, I cry for microSd slot and camera lens cover... Well, the latter I can fix myself23:00
Estel_vi_, haha23:00
freemangordonEstel_: btw there is a tweak in store to rotate to landskape23:00
Estel_I'm going to love it ;)23:00
Estel_vi_, shouldn't open kernel protect Your ass from aegis?23:01
freemangordonyeah, without it keyboard is useless most of the time23:01
vi__it REALLY needs a backup menu.23:01
Estel_no backupmenu equivalent?23:02
vi__not yet.23:02
vi__I have not really played with mine yet.23:02
vi__time is just so short.23:02
Estel_vi_, my N900 died totally day before N950 arrived, when I was out of tools to safely upgrade n95023:03
Estel_(i.e reflash)23:03
Estel_so I had to use it as main mobile computer and phone for a weekend23:03
Estel_feel my sado-macho relationship with it23:03
vi__when you say died, you mean killed?23:03
Estel_being kicked inside from fully enchanced N90023:03
Estel_vi_, well, it lived after I finished my operation, died next day23:04
Estel_it's not my fault (tm) :P23:04
vi__lol, wtf did you do?23:04
Estel_repaired IR diode23:04
Estel_it got 2 metal plates on side, connected to pad on motherboard23:04
Estel_it was broken in one side23:04
Estel_I repaired it with what I had there (100W soldering iron)23:04
Estel_I'm pretty sure it went clear without overheating anything, or dropping solder anywhere...23:05
Estel_but, when ionserted battery, it turned out itself - bad signal23:05
Estel_but it worked fine23:05
Estel_next day, it stopped chargin by itself. I re-connected charger, and moniutored it for 15 minutes - everything was all right, charging with correct current etc23:05
Estel_when I came back after hour, it was turned off, without signs of life. No power button reaction, no charger reaction, no usbv reaction23:05
Estel_0 life23:06
Estel_strange as hell, have seen something like that only when flex cable for screen wasn't connected to motherboard23:06
vi__cold flash?23:06
Estel_tested my flex cable with other N90023:06
Estel_no sign of life whatsoever, can't do cold flash23:06
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Estel_brick as in brick23:06
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Estel_without any sign of damage anywhere (removed EMI shield to visualy inspect it)23:07
Estel_I'll try to heat flex cable socket on motherboard, got nothing to loose anyhway...23:07
Estel_(I'm back in home with my gas fuel for soldering iron)23:07
Estel_or try desoldering this ir diode again.,.. :p I know, sounds silly23:08
vi__Estel_: perhaps a more logical approac?23:08
Estel_sure, be my guest and suggest it23:08
Estel_unless You mean going into ebay and selling as "unknown state" :P23:08
vi__1. check battery is actually go power in it.23:08
Estel_it is23:08
Estel_tested both battery voltage, and other batteries23:08
vi__2. check power to chips.23:08
Estel_(as in power from battery to nearest elements)23:09
Estel_no idea how to check it on specific chips later23:09
vi__no, power to chips. gnd>vdd23:09
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Estel_also tested if something important isn't shorted to ground23:09
Estel_wait, could You elaborate more? i'm lost, what groundf and 5V?23:10
vi__3. sell it on ebay, unknown condition.23:10
Estel_vi_, sure, but I can sell it with unknown condition even after burning whole motherboard :P23:11
Estel_so it's worth to try anyway23:11
Estel_well, i would definityely scavenbge camera module and finally tri removing IR filter23:11
vi__look up schematics, trace the power back to various components as best you can.23:11
Estel_to do Ir shots on day and night vision during night (lighted up by bunch od high-power IR dioded, connected to battery before protecxtion circuit)23:11
vi__fuckit, it is toast.23:11
Estel_vi_, tried that, not to mention that no idea wqhy something could broke23:12
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Estel_well, i've ordered another n900 anyway, should arrive tomorrow... Still, I would like to repair this one, and reclaim my backups23:12
DocScrutinizer05I suggest you look at schematics and component placement for 60 min, with a nice glass of wine. And ponder what might have happened to the IR, the components connected to IR, and the components palced next to IR23:12
Estel_or only reclaim files, if not repairable fully23:12
DocScrutinizer05and for sure desoldering IR is a pretty good idea23:12
Estel_DocScrutinizer, exactly my plan for this evening23:12
Estel_I suxx a little at reading N900's schematics, I must confess, but will try my best23:13
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: I gather you checked syslog of PC for ROMBL message from USB?23:14
vi__One mod I would like to see attempted is changing the value of the sense resistor for the proximity sensor.23:14
Estel_ops, I'll be honest, nope. Shame on me23:14
Estel_will do that23:14
vi__make it less sensitive and all.23:14
vi__stop the screen blanking in direct sunlight.23:15
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I'm kinda noon at this, what should I look at @ syslog and usb? You think about some small signs of life in mainteintance frequency?23:15
DocScrutinizer05err WUT?23:15
DocScrutinizer05screen doesn't blank in bright sunlight, it simply shuts down backlight as it's useless anyway23:15
Estel_(homeworld pun intended, with that signs of life on mainteintance frequency)23:15
Estel_yea, transreflective23:16
vi__DocScrutinizer05: no, however the proximity sensor becomes super sensitive.23:16
Estel_but notification LED indeed disconnects :P23:16
Estel_in sunlight23:16
DocScrutinizer05it dims23:16
Estel_vi_, havent experienced that, hm?23:16
Estel_DocScrutinizer, it dims to the point of not lighting up at all?23:17
DocScrutinizer05a know bug, the most idiotic one in whole fremantle23:17
Estel_...due to diode being connected to same led driver that keyboard is, and keyboard have to dim in high ambient light23:17
DocScrutinizer05the indicator LED goes extremely dim but still visible23:17
Estel_but honestly, I have some candidates for more idiotic bugs :P23:17
Estel_in my case it isn't visible at all?23:18
Estel_in direct sunlight?23:18
freemangordonWUT? I was thinking it was dead (indicator LED). dammit23:18
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: depends on your breathing light pattern23:18
DocScrutinizer05mine is rather bright by default23:18
Estel_DocScrutinizer, sure, my patterns are never more than 50 value (power)23:18
Estel_so it's probably this23:18
Estel_50 at peak23:18
vi__I think blue+shift+k sending two keycodes is pretty good bug.23:18
Estel_not only k23:19
Estel_another pair of button does it too23:19
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's a nice one too, vi__23:19
Estel_btw anyone know why it's that?23:19
DocScrutinizer05not really a bug but rather a design flaw23:19
Estel_freemangordon, dead in sunlight, or dead in my damaged n900?23:19
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vi__estel it is explained nicely on the wiki.23:19
Estel_in my damaged N900 it's dead, of course, all the time23:19
Estel_vi_, sure, but I still don't know why:p23:19
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: I elaborated on it in wiki/hardware/components or somesuch page23:20
Estel_i though about explanation in hardware keyboard remapping, which is not informative at all23:20
Estel_let me guess, hardware design flaw?23:20
DocScrutinizer05read the wiki23:20
Estel_i.e. shorting traces for both keys, when shift blue arrow and k is pressed?23:20
DocScrutinizer05so called shadow keys23:21
DocScrutinizer05aka n-key-rollover23:21
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Estel_hm, domehsheet turned out to be trivial to remove and attach again, maybe some cutting with knife and alternative traces making could fix it?:P23:21
DocScrutinizer05(not 100% sure if the 2nd term applies exactly)23:22
DocScrutinizer05unless you rewrite the driver23:22
kerioor remap the keys :)23:24
vi__kerio: facepalm.23:24
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: the amount of changes needed in hw to fix this flaw forbids a simple remapping to straighten things23:24
kerioshame :(23:25
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vi__I have got some 'daves gourmet insanity sauce'.23:28
vi__I am going to put it in this tarka dahl I am making.23:28
vi__This shit is going to be off the chain.23:28
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Estel_freemangordon, if I'm ever going to do custom body for N950, i'm putting 1W FM transmitter there :P23:30
Estel_connected to audio jack with hardware switch to disable it23:31
Estel_should allow to broadcast music in ~1 kilometer23:31
Estel_I concluded, that it's much, MUCH easier to do than trying to fix this chip not connected to antenna internally23:32
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kerioEstel_: is the fmtx antenna accessible, in the n900?23:32
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vi__kerio: yes23:33
vi__it even has a test jack23:33
vi__so in theory you could hook in an external aerial23:34
freemangordonhmm, a second anthenna there?23:34
freemangordonEstel_: could you calculate a dipole for that?23:34
keriovi__: how accessible is it? could an external aerial be hidden sideways in the mugen xl cover?23:34
freemangordonhmm, wait, won;t work23:34
freemangordonit is directional iirc23:35
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kerioi have no idea how big is it, never seen one (and pictures don't really help)23:35
vi__kerio: yes, however it probably whould not be any bettter than what is there already.23:35
kerioaww :(23:36
freemangordonvi__: why?23:36
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vi__well an ideal broadcast fm aerial is around 70cm long.23:37
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freemangordonthen we have either 17.5 or 8.75 cm, ain't?23:38
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freemangordonby adding another 8.75 we should gain some more transmitting power, agree?23:39
freemangordonvi__: ^^^23:39
vi__no.  You will just not loose as much power.23:39
Estel_freemangordon, it's simple one-wire put there, IIRC23:39
Estel_basically, any dipole would increase range23:39
Estel_but FMTX is just 50 nW23:40
freemangordonbut it is directional23:40
freemangordondipole that is23:40
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Estel_I'm actually surprised it performs so well23:40
freemangordonwon't do the job then23:40
Estel_but but, it's directionality is very low23:40
Estel_why not, it should, i'm using dipol for receiving FM too23:40
freemangordonhmm, ok, if you say so23:40
fasta"modern PCs are horrible"23:41
Estel_Dipol is 2 sides directional23:41
fastaWho do you think also said that?23:41
vi__it is generally accepted that a 1/4 wave monopole will give you 0db gain.23:41
Estel_1/3 less power in 2 sides, 2/3 more power in remaining 2 sides23:41
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fasta"modern PCs are horrible" -- Linus Torvalds23:41
freemangordonvi__: what about 1/8? as it seems that is the case with n90023:42
Estel_freemangordon, practically, no antenna give You any gain at all23:42
Estel_it just tunnels range23:42
* Estel_ nod23:42
freemangordonyeah, LC23:42
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Estel_so no gain without introducing any directional resonance23:42
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vi__at 1/8 you are losing power23:43
Estel_practically, yes23:43
Estel_practically, no :P23:43
freemangordonbuth there are some chip parameters for anthenna capacity, could we use that to prolong the wire, while keeping the range23:43
Estel_lets put it this way - on 0 antenna, you are in some power23:43
Estel_any icnrease from that gain You something23:44
freemangordonrange as frequency range23:44
freemangordonthat should give some boost23:44
Estel_absolutely, and using fractal antenna would gain us that without using xxx long wire23:44
Estel_but what type of fractal woluld be best for FM wavelengths, hm23:45
freemangordonEstel_: task for the weeken - engineer it :P23:45
Estel_(in this case, we would use fractal capacitance copuling as feature, not multi-band characteristic)23:45
Estel_well, using simple triangle fractal, without any calculations, one guy boosted wrt54gl range to 1 KM, with reliable link between two :P23:46
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vi__any increase of legth HAS to be on one of the harmonics of the frequency you are dealing wit.23:47
Estel_vi_, not in case of fractals23:48
Estel_self-similarity made them damn multiband23:48
Estel_self-similarity made them resonant to very wide range of frequencies, depending on tuner sucking data23:48
vi__Estel_: so SWR does not exist in the domain of the fractal antenna?23:48
Estel_when properly designed, they can be almost fully wide-band23:48
Estel_when properly designed, SWR from one size multiplier is fought by resonance of another few pas of size in or de-crease23:49
Estel_remember, self similarity23:49
Estel_it's the same for shorter or longer size23:49
Estel_same shape23:49
Estel_in one antenna, at the same time23:49
Estel_it's like having few different antennas at once, at least tuned for few different wavelenghts23:50
vi__I dunno, you are arguing against pretty much the fundimental principle of radio theory.23:50
Estel_well, SWR definitelly still exist :)23:50
Estel_and fractal antennas are not "absolutely lossless solution"23:50
Estel_it's rather about fact, that when poroperly designed, it's hard to get SW there23:50
Estel_standing wave*23:50
Estel_at least, on frequencies you're interested in23:50
Estel_BTw, fractal antennas shattered fundamentals of radio theory, anyway23:51
Estel_to this day many people belive they're as effective as random wire only - despite fact, that practice proved they're much better, and that they're widely used in mobile equipment etc23:51
Estel_and by "some people" I also mean radio engineers on big academies23:51
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Estel_some of them only, of course23:52
freemangordonhmm, according to the pictures of WiFi anthenna, FM one should be something 30x30cm23:52
Estel_it's about the fact that why they work is still theory, but in practice, it works :p23:52
Estel_freemangordon, sure, but it's in 2D23:52
Estel_you can design 3D one much, much smaller23:52
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Estel_or use different fractal23:52
Estel_this one is highly directional23:52
freemangordonme? no, I can't :D23:52
Estel_(one in picture)23:52
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Estel_simpliest 3D one is just 2 or 3 2D ones, assembled in 3D shape23:53
Estel_like 3D puzzles23:53
vi__Estel_: I would never use a thing I could not understand in a design.23:54
Estel_so why using GPS? ;)23:54
Estel_it's precision fix is based on relativity theory, which stated that for objects moving with speed to each other, time passes differently23:55
Estel_it's only theory, no hard proof23:55
Estel_yet, without putting it into account, GPS would be always muich less precise23:55
kerioapart from, you know, the fact that gps works23:55
Estel_they *must* put into account speed of satellite and difference in time passing (that is, satellites are "youunger" than they should, a little bit)23:55
Estel_to maintain precision23:56
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Estel_BTW, 3/4 of modern physic is theory23:56
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Estel_and half of medicine23:56
vi__nd most of all statistics.23:56
Estel_we don't have a fucking clue about world surrounding us, we're just guessing, but we're trying to guess as precisely as we can23:56
Estel_thats the science :P23:56
Estel_as compared to religion, which doesn't try to guess at all, but pretend that it knows better :P23:57
* Estel_ hides23:57
* freemangordon is off for dinner23:58
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* Estel_ loves monty python23:59

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