IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-07-07

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zeq_freemangordon: ping00:31
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keriowhere can i install chromium? and is it worth it?01:14
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SpeedEvilI vaguely recall ther was an install f chromium, but it got pulled for lawyer-based reasons.01:24
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MrPinguNever tried it though01:26
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MrPinguI used only Estel_ 's easy debian image with chromium, but I wasn't pleased with the performance01:27
MrPinguWanted to try on a dedicated partition but never got to it ;)01:27
Macerback to melting solder01:28
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DocScrutinizer05have fun!01:43
user__kerio: just wait for zeq&FMG fennec port.01:44
user__it will melt your balls.01:44
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MrPinguCan't wait ^^01:45
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* DocScrutinizer05 eats that 4.3GB .xsession-errors, and burps01:48
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: lol wut?01:49
DocScrutinizer05you know why you got a separate /home partition when df -h /home shows ZERO bytes free01:49
vi_DocScrutinizer05: I have a seperate /home because I have a habit of osing everything by messing with dumb stuff.01:50
vi_Now, who wants to try my latest attempt at configuring the n900 vm?01:52
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure I need more storage related excitement/susoense today01:53
vi_DocScrutinizer05: its not for you doc.01:54
vi_it 15 2 1337 4u01:55
Maceroh yeah....01:55
Macerthese caps are getting easier and easier01:55
Maceronce i got practice on a few of them heh01:55
Maceryeah.. have 4/18 off.. but the 1st one took 20mins to get a feel for.. 2nd took 5.. now they're coming out 3mins per :)01:56
DocScrutinizer05even after 40 years of doing it01:56
Maceryeah well.. this isn't really my thing.. but the getting them out seems like the difficult part01:57
Macernow i am pulling them out with clear holes ;)01:57
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DocScrutinizer05hope you don't pull out the vias with them caps02:09
DocScrutinizer05you're absolutely right about the difficult part though - soldering the new parts it mere fun after it02:12
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DocScrutinizer05which I honestly hope you do immediately after removing old cap, as otherwise odds might be you forget the right side for plus02:13
DocScrutinizer05and hell THAT would be a pity to solder one of the new good caps on the board the wrong way round02:13
SpeedEvilAlmost always a good idea02:15
DocScrutinizer05yeah, a bit02:15
DocScrutinizer05though I always found a proper really hot iron serves all purpose here02:15
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* DocScrutinizer05 still shudders thinking about a 4.3GB errorlog file02:17
SpeedEvilLead-free can make preheat almost mandatory02:17
DocScrutinizer05why is that?02:18
SpeedEvilhigher temps02:19
DocScrutinizer05hmm, turn up your soldering iron temp02:19
DocScrutinizer05still not hot enough? turn it still higher02:19
SpeedEvilmultiple ground planes.02:20
DocScrutinizer05higher! higher!02:21
RST38hDoc: doing termorectal cryptoanalysis?02:22
DocScrutinizer05since copper, unlike tin and lead, is a really good thermal conductor, and wires of components are usually massive copper and length of solder joint not much longer than diameter of wires, it's usually possible to heat the copper wire of component so much that solder melts on surface of wire before the heat reaches the ground planes02:25
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DocScrutinizer05might not work on good massive vias ~ the diameter of the wire of components, connected to multiple massive ground planes02:27
DocScrutinizer05then you actually might need some preheating02:27
DocScrutinizer05though... aq proper PCB layout is using termal insulation of vias from ground planes02:29
DocScrutinizer05for that very reason02:29
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DocScrutinizer05you frequently see those X-shaped "bridges" from small pad with via to the groundplane land around it02:34
DocScrutinizer05on all stuff that's not built by reflow02:36
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infobotfrom memory, xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at or
RiDwhat was the custom xchat config?03:11
RiDDocScrutinizer05, hello x-p03:12
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, jrxchat is
RiDthat's it! thank you03:27
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RiDDocScrutinizer05 everything went nice. Your keybindings seem corrupted though03:53
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SpeedEvilOn a random note.04:04
RiDDocScrutinizer05 could you send me your keybinds file? :S04:04
SpeedEvilThe nokia wired headset survives a 40C wash cycle.04:04
RiDnow try the phone04:05
SpeedEvilRiD: I think not :)04:05
RiDit smells good, doesn't it?04:06
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DocScrutinizer05RiD: what's been corrupted?04:22
RiDthe keybinds file lol04:22
DocScrutinizer05RiD: seems there are some non-printing chars in first version of that page04:22
RiD2nd one didnt work either :o04:23
DocScrutinizer05what means "didn't work"?04:23
RiDi paste it in the file and then save it. when i start xchat it says the keybind file is corrupt and doesnt load it04:24
DocScrutinizer05nfc how to proceed04:24
RiDi'm going to sleep. Will take a look at that tomorrow04:26
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, hope that helps now..04:40
DocScrutinizer05ctrl-k -> ctrl-c though is obscure to me04:40
DocScrutinizer05not that I ever used ctrl-o or ctrl-b04:41
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if I want to test what those 3 ctrl-chars do to xchat04:43
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jpinxIs there a way to send text messages while connected to my n900 by usb and online via wvdial? I can ssh into the n900....04:51
DocScrutinizer05well, then phonecontrol has the python script for you05:06
jpinxthanks DocScrutinizer05 --  that's just the pointer I needed :)05:07
jpinxsaves me goggling :D05:08
jpinxgoogleing ..  even.....05:08
DocScrutinizer05use third script, it seems the most clean one05:09
DocScrutinizer052nd one will most likely not even store the sent SMS to conversations05:09
jpinxok :)05:09
DocScrutinizer05iirc first one needs some libs that aren't installed by default05:10
jpinxI'll come back when I have it installed and tested  a few times ;)05:10
DocScrutinizer05 bus = dbus.SystemBus() #should connect to system bus instead of session because the former is where the incoming signals come from05:12
DocScrutinizer05is a bit strange a comment - why doesn't it use sessionbus then instead of systembus?05:12
DocScrutinizer05lemme check what I made of it...05:23
DocScrutinizer05oops, it actually _does_ connect to systembus, so what's that comment all about?05:28
DocScrutinizer05and my stuff does all the same05:29
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LaoLang_coolHi, any other replacement for recaller?05:39
LaoLang_coolthe quality of rec by recall is very poor05:40
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: thanks for exploring it a bit for me :)05:41
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DocScrutinizer05recaller indeed could use a major update06:26
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jean_brathiHi these keys [Shft Fn   CTRL      Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one.10:55
jean_bratis there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it?10:55
psycho_oreoscould it be a software issue and not a hardware issue?10:57
jean_bratis that possible?11:04
jean_bratsome row is discontinued or now been driven high from the domesheet.. but don know where that row make contact with the main supply line on the top of the board11:06
jean_brat*not been driven11:06
psycho_oreosI'm not sure how its electronically wired to be honest.. I'd study the schematics myself11:10
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jean_bratguess i am out of luck11:12
psycho_oreosI wouldn't really rule out that you're out of luck.. you could just be overlooking things if you're lucky11:16
jean_bratwhat could possibly be wrong. i cleaned up the circles on the board with extreme precision and also the innner side of the domepad..11:19
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jean_bratdon know what i am missing here11:19
psycho_oreoshave you tried reflashing? I mean obviously backing up and then reflash11:20
jean_bratyes..there is nothing in my phone now11:22
jean_bratdomesheet is pretty fucked up  now11:23
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jean_bratafter removing it several times11:23
psycho_oreosI'd probably stick around till DocScrutinizer is around, he'd probably know how to solve this.. or maybe some people on tmo11:27
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japhI'm fed up with harmattan and its ui now. Would flashing my n950 with the maemo5 n900 images cause obvious issues?11:29
jean_bratthanks psycho_oreos11:32
psycho_oreosjaph, most definitely yes11:33
psycho_oreosjaph, not that flashing to some ancient firmware is supported for starters11:33
japhI hate the harmattan ui11:33
psycho_oreosN900's CPU doesn't have hardfp whereas N950/n9 has hardfp for starters as well11:34
psycho_oreosthe UI can probably be customised... though you might have to wait for a long while (if ever) :)11:34
_freemangordonzeq: pong11:35
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psycho_oreosjean_brat, I'm also curious to ask, how did you manage to get to the stage where the dome are stuffed?11:35
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psycho_oreosits not because of excessive wear and tear I hope is it?11:35
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japhbut, no :(11:36
psycho_oreosjaph, I'm afraid that's not for harmattan :) harmattan still uses deb package management11:37
japhoh well. not sure what to do11:38
psycho_oreosand yeah cordia was the thing to bridge that missing link.. though cordia now seems to be on their own specific hardware rather than going through the same area as nokia/harmattan11:38
psycho_oreosjaph, I wouldn't recommend that11:38
psycho_oreosmaybe source a N900? :)11:38
japhI have n900s but I would really like to have something that I can use on the n950 hw since it's so  much better11:39
psycho_oreosharmattan in nokia's sense is more of what they technically called it `meego instance'.. which isn't real meego for instance11:39
psycho_oreosheh I'm afraid you might end up being on your own.. though you may (and only may) find like-minded users in #harmattan however11:39
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jean_brati had a perfectly working n900, i flashed the latest firmware 1 day with the help of DocScrutinizer after that my phone never booted11:46
jean_brati gave it to Nokia Service centre. explaining them the issue.. and they almost took 2 months and returned my phone11:47
jean_brateverything worked.. except the keypad.11:47
psycho_oreosuh oh..11:48
psycho_oreosthat ^ was where the problem11:48
jean_bratdon know what they did with that..11:48
japhbut I have no issues with the latest firmwares on the n900s11:48
japhI wanted to use maemo5 on my n95011:48
freemangordonpsycho_oreos: N9 and N900 have one and the same CPU ;)11:48
jean_brathang on.. is it a known firmware issue?11:49
psycho_oreoswhen did you hand your N900 in to their care centre?11:49
jean_bratits almost 3 months back11:49
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Lava_Croftjean_brat: they will replace it11:52
japhwith a samsung11:52
Lava_Croftunless you presure them11:52
* japh giggles11:52
Lava_Croftlumia probably11:52
Lava_Croftthey tried N8 on me11:52
Lava_Croftthey failed11:52
Lava_Crofti have to bring an N9 in on monday11:53
Lava_Croftthey better not replace it:P11:53
jean_brati still think i can fix it if i get to know the layout of the keypad11:54
psycho_oreosjean_brat, I really doubt its a firmware issue.. if you reflashed it and those set of keys still don't work then it's most likely a hardware issue11:55
zeqfreemangordon: I can't stay, busy today, but did you read what I wrote when I got home yesterday? ^11:55
jean_bratany ways.. bfn.. will be back later when DocScrutinizer is around11:56
psycho_oreosfreemangordon, I beg to differ :) same brand and maybe family yes.. but different clock rate and maybe different cpu flags11:56
jean_bratdo they still make spares..? of those domesheets? any ways i can get a spare?11:56
jean_brator buy a spare11:56
psycho_oreosI don't know about domesheets but I have bought keymat from China awhile back.. though you might be able to find spares (though most likely clones) of the N900 hardware11:57
jean_brat:P that will do.. hope they have some clone domesheets11:58
psycho_oreosI know that nokia stopped producing N900 ages ago.. lots of owners tried getting their N900 fixed but they instead get replaced with some other non-linux based crap11:58
jean_bratgot a link ? :)11:58
psycho_oreosnope... fleabay11:58
Lava_Croftnokia cant replace N900 yet11:58
Lava_Croftas long as you are in eu, you have 2y warranty11:59
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Lava_Croftyou can happily go to court, as i threatened them11:59
doc|homeno, they actually can't. They have no OS and they're too incompetent to do it11:59
jean_brathmm.. unfortunately i am not :(11:59
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Lava_Croftthey can, they got me two back11:59
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doc|homeI have an n900 I'm not using12:00
Lava_Crofti have on break software on and one for daily use12:00
doc|homewhere are you? I'd consider selling it12:00
Lava_Croftone to break*12:00
Lava_Croftjean_brat: look up warranty laws in your country12:01
jean_bratpsycho_oreos, where did you find the chinese site selling parts12:01
japhdoc|home, I'll buy it12:01
Lava_Croftjean_brat: where are you located12:01
jean_brati am in india fella12:01
Lava_Croftidk jackshit about laws there12:01
doc|homejaph: ping me later in the weekend12:02
doc|homeit's 2am here, I need sleep :)12:02
psycho_oreosjean_brat, ebay (if you didn't get that fleabay comment). Again I stress I do not know if they sell dome sheets I do know they sold clone N900 (awhile back.. and no.. not genuine N900 nor is it even running maemo) and parts for that cloned (and faked..) N90012:02
jean_bratits ok.. i am not considering suing nokia.. they are already in enough toruble12:02
japhI'll try to remember your nick12:02
psycho_oreosjean_brat, they need more trouble imo :)12:03
psycho_oreosfor loyally screwing their own loyal maemo owner base12:03
Lava_Croftyes burning nokia will certainly help12:03
Lava_Croftmust be puberty taking over12:04
jean_bratit has to happen eventually..but i never expected 2 years ago android will grow so fast12:04
jacekowskimaemo is dead12:04
Lava_Croftall i ever care about is gnu userland on my mobile12:05
psycho_oreosmanufacturer-wise jacekowski12:05
Lava_Croftscrew the rest of the politics12:05
psycho_oreoscommunity-wise.. maemo is now more or less similar to openmoko12:05
jean_bratTI is all time down.. what you expect from nokia to keep up the competition ?12:06
psycho_oreosjean_brat, they teamed up with microsoft.. does that explain anything? :)12:06
jean_bratyes.. MS pays 1 billian an year to use Windows on its phone for nokia12:07
jean_bratfor a company which is not making any revenue its a good decision12:08
jean_bratbut MS will backstab soon12:08
jean_bratits in their DNA ;P12:08
* psycho_oreos is unsure of exactly how much MS actually paid/pays nokia but is sure that MS was sure enough jealous that n9 sold like hotcakes when there wasn't even much of an advertisement for n9 compared to nokia's lumia range12:08
psycho_oreosI can't wait for that.. it'll be the death of nokia.. probably12:08
Lava_Croftits great how people think ms is worse than nokia12:09
Lava_Croftor other companies12:09
psycho_oreoshate comes in territories12:10
Lava_Crofthate comes from children12:10
Lava_Croftand people who have the time and space in their sad life to hate a goddamn company12:10
psycho_oreosindeed but that would also imply that politicians are also children12:10
jean_bratfellas.. believe it or not.. Nokia made amazing phones with TI platform which was mostly opensource12:10
psycho_oreosnot really12:10
Lava_Croftn900 is awesome, but its a shit phone12:11
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, its also known as a `bad customer' which literally kills business when there's more than enough12:11
Lava_Croftgood computer tho12:11
Lava_Croftpoliticians rarely hate things12:11
psycho_oreosjean_brat, hintword: was12:11
jean_bratand TI is struggling to keep up the competition12:11
psycho_oreosLava_Croft, they don't hate, they just incite war12:11
psycho_oreosits called powertripping12:12
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Lava_Crofti think its the other way around12:12
Lava_Croftpeople always childiishly hate the big companies12:12
Lava_Croftwether its ibm, apple, activision, whatever12:12
jean_bratFYI i worked for MS12:13
psycho_oreosand people always will.. that doesn't necessarily mean that they're children12:13
Lava_Croftnokia, ms, etc12:13
Lava_Croftthey are12:13
psycho_oreosto you they are12:13
psycho_oreosjust like politicians12:13
Lava_Croftto anyone with a bit of common sense too12:13
Lava_Croftbut common sense mixes really bad with open source communities12:13
psycho_oreosmore like to anyone who's been smoking god knows what12:13
Lava_Croftfact of life12:13
jean_bratdon know about that.. but i respect nokia in replace BL5C voluntary with the issue was found12:14
psycho_oreosyeah and inherently you've just mocked richard stallman.. good job12:14
Lava_Croftstallman  ol12:14
zeqLava_Croft: you seem to have a rather simplistic view of human psychology (no offense intended.)12:14
psycho_oreosjean_brat, what about the microUSB issue on N900?12:14
Lava_Croftstallman is the worst advertisement for foss ever12:14
Lava_Croftcome on now12:14
jean_bratya.. its pathetic12:15
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psycho_oreosjean_brat, rather.. how nokia responded *initially* to that12:15
zeqWe're social animals, our forming of communities, necessitates that we see threats to that community as a person affront.  It incites strong emotional response, if it didn't we wouldn't be here discussing this.12:16
* psycho_oreos would love to see when Lava_Croft gets done in by some bad business practise.. `oh lets not sue/hate them or else I'll be seen as a child!'12:17
psycho_oreoszeq, lets not forget there's a huge base of such examples *points to apple fan base*12:18
Lava_Croftcompanies are companies and will be companies12:20
psycho_oreosand those antitrust laws existed worldwide are `childlish-motives'12:21
Lava_Croftany amazement over being sodomized by a company is bordering stupidity12:21
Lava_Croftbe it ms, be it nokia12:21
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japhmm finaly it seems I can get somewhere with the flashing12:26
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japhwhile true; do modprobe -r cdc_phonet phonet; ./Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin;  sleep .1; done12:26
* japh grins12:26
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psycho_oreosor you could just temporarily blacklist those modules12:26
japhblacklisting means I'll have to unblacklist them12:27
japheffort :)12:27
psycho_oreosor you could really hack up a simple script that'll do it12:27
psycho_oreosmaybe a flasher `wrapper' tool12:27
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userhi there!cant connect to msn with pecam.could somebody help me?12:42
psycho_oreosis that the messages based plugin thingy? have you tried that other one?12:46
psycho_oreosand you meant pecan? iirc there were two variations, one is hazel and the other is pecan12:46
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userit is a plugin for conversations12:48
psycho_oreosahhh yeah that too, well there's two different plugins for msn, one was pecan and the other was hazel12:49
useri would like to connect to msn from contacts12:49
userpecan doesnt work12:49
psycho_oreoshave you tried the other one? I recall one of them was based on an older method of connecting12:49
useri going to try it12:50
userthank you12:52
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qwazix_900japh: I also want maemo5 ui on the N950 and I'm working on it. If you have any experience with hildon-desktop your help is welcome12:53
qwazix_900Later today I will try to document the situation as detailed as possible and reach out for help in any possible direction12:55
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japhqwazix_900, awesome!!13:21
japhI assume qwazix on github is you, is the current situtation as far as code goes not public?13:22
Hurriananyone know villa's email address?13:22
freemangordonzeq: ok, i'll clone again13:24
Hurrianfreemangordon, have you got your device?13:25
freemangordonHurrian: no13:25
Hurrianno word from DHL too?13:25
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qwazix_900japh: qwazix on github is me but there is no code. I'm trying to make hildon desktop from maemo work on harmattan, as is.13:42
qwazix_900Any modifications will of course be published but till now I only have modified some makefiles and configure scripts13:43
qwazix_900hildon is the version from cordia, because the guys there have made enough modifications to remove maemo specific dependencies13:44
japhqwazix_900, is your fingers also incompatible with the horrible harmattan swipe ui?13:44
qwazix_900japh: No, I like swipe ui. I'm doing it more to be able to run the abundance of quality apps in maemo extras13:45
qwazix_900also N950's awesome kb is being wasted with the slab-oriented harmattan ui13:46
japhhehe I think I'm the only one whose fingers doesn't work with it13:46
japhyes, yes, indeed13:46
qwazix_900If this project goes forward we'll have ourselves a real mamemo 613:48
qwazix_900I also need someone to take on gtk-doc on harmattan as maemo gtk depends on it and I have been hacking ./configure scripts to get past it, which isn't the most elegant of solutions13:50
japhpure docs? I'm sorry but I have a very limited experience with gui stuff in general13:52
qwazix_900gtk-doc is a package which I assume handles documentation13:55
qwazix_900normally you can specify a configure flag to build without it but maemo-gtk ignores it13:55
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japhnot sure why that's a dependency when everything else documentation wise is instantly purged13:56
qwazix_900I tried to build gtk-doc on harmattan but entered into a dependency labyrinth13:56
jipieseanybody know if you can switch from cssu-stable to testing?13:56
qwazix_900it shouldn't be, and it isn't on upstream gtk. It's a specific maemo bug13:57
japhqwazix_900, I'll read up on this scratchbox business and hopefully I can help investing next week13:57
qwazix_900so we need either fix the bug or build gtk-doc13:57
japhmm reminds me of a bug I ran in to when having built gtk but having no icon files13:58
qwazix_900japh: I'll be glad to have a helping hand :)13:58
qwazix_900fortunately harmattan scratchbox is a breeze to install13:59
qwazix_900unfortunately there are far less libs/apps on harmattan repos14:00
qwazix_900even git is missing14:00
japhI think I found it in some of the repos listed on the wiki14:00
japhor maybe that was on my n90014:01
qwazix_900I've been cloning using ubuntu git outside of scratchbox14:01
qwazix_900maybe, didn't search community repos14:01
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qwazix_900it's there on the N900 though14:03
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iluminator105what do you guys suggest for long term support since the standard shipped one is pretty much obselete14:17
Sicelowhat is?14:19
iluminator105the n900 shipped kernel/os14:20
iluminator105i used the community edition but until it stopped upgrading14:21
SpeedEvililuminator105: I suggest you start a new company that is dedicated to offering 512M RAM upgrades for the n900, and producing a better software stack.14:21
ShadowJK1 gig14:21
SpeedEvilI couldn't find info that the compatible 1G part had actually been made14:21
iluminator105SpeedEvil, that is actually a brillant idea14:22
SpeedEvilAnd it would have required hackiness, as it had no flash.14:22
SpeedEvilI'm not sure teh n900 would actually boot from EMMC/SD with no onboard flash.14:22
iluminator105is there like a long term support newer kernel14:23
iluminator105i guess i could upgrade to meego but thats not the best option14:23
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NIN101for maemo 5 we need to live with 2.6.28.*14:24
iluminator105is there like a centos for n90014:24
Sicelothere is an actively-developed Ubuntu14:24
NIN101not that I am aware of, there other distris. Most of them fail when it comes to phone functions.14:25
NIN101active developed but wasting time with getting it to play together with u-boot instead of focusing on relevant things.14:27
iluminator105is there like a commercial grade replacement for maemo14:28
qwazix_900NIN101: there is no other way to play if you want to move on from the maemo kernel14:30
qwazix_900and IIRC ubuntu now plays with 2.6.37 if not newer14:30
NIN101you don't need u-boot for that14:30
qwazix_900you do except if you want to flash that kernel permanently and lose maemo14:36
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qwazix_900multiboot is just not an option14:36
qwazix_900it should be killed with fire14:36
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NIN101there is a way to load the kernel without flashing anything14:37
qwazix_900using flasher from your pc.14:37
qwazix_900not the most optimal solution14:37
NIN101which should be sufficient. It of course isn't possible when you are in RL, but tell me you boot into ubuntu when you are out there in the real world...14:37
qwazix_900i would happily do14:38
qwazix_900I just didn't get around to install it again after the morons at nokia care reflashed my N90014:38
qwazix_900as I was using e-d regularly14:39
qwazix_900I just need 3G data but that ought to be working by now14:40
qwazix_900wtf? battery low. I was >50% 1 hour ago14:42
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keriojean_brat: on the wiki there were some technical specs for the keyboard14:49
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Estel_wow, have You heard about Jolla project?15:02
Estel_it's really exciting to hear that they will manufacture new devices with Mer.15:02
Estel_I can't wait to see first device :)15:03
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StyXmanI'me pretty sure you already readyhis, but anyways:
Lava_Crofti dont want Mer15:31
GeneralAntillesWell, they don't have the rights to Nokia's proprietary stuff.15:32
Venemo_N9they might.15:32
GeneralAntillesI'm just happy the idea of an open source mobile device isn't completely dead.15:33
GeneralAntilles'Cause, you know, Mer > *.15:33
keriowhat the hell15:33 forcibly redirects you to the https version15:34
keriobut the certificate is self-signed15:34
Stskeepsit is15:34
kerioyay for completely defeating the point15:34
Stskeepsnot really, some kind of ssl is better than not15:34
Stskeepswe have not shelled out for a certificate as we keep a low budget15:34
kerioStskeeps: startssl.com15:34
keriofree class 2 certs15:35
kerioand it's a wiki15:36
kerioyou don't need encryption to read public web pages15:36
Stskeepsthat is true15:37
* Stskeeps files a bug15:37
keriohttps is for encryption and verification - you guys don't need the first, and the second fails because it's a self-signed certificate15:37
keriomind you, CA certs have a load of problems15:37
Stskeepswe do need the first though, we use a common login across them all15:38
keriobut there isn't a good alternative, really15:38
Stskeepsbut for anonymous viewing.. that's trrue15:38
kerioStskeeps: yeah but i can't be sure someone isn't MITMing me15:38
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lohncan I ask an n900 question16:09
qwazix_go ahead16:09
lohnso I deleted the kernel...16:09
lohnI am a moron, so let get past that16:09
lohnnow, when I plug my phone it, it keeps trying to reboot, but never gets past the nokia screen16:10
lohntrying to flash, computer doesn't recognize16:10
lohnam I screwed?16:10
qwazix_what do you mean deleted the kernel?16:10
qwazix_kernel is flashed to nand16:11
qwazix_I am not aware of a way to delete it unless you flash garbage over it16:11
lohnas in removed linux kernel for power user from application manager16:11
qwazix_ah, ok let's see16:11
qwazix_fact is that you're not missing a kernel, just some supporting packages, but your N900 should be recognized by pc16:12
lohnmaybe the problem was that I was on linux?16:12
Lava_Croftthat is usually causing LESS problems with flashing16:12
lohnI did lsusb, and the device did not even show up16:13
qwazix_did you issue the flasher command as root?16:13
qwazix_ok let me think16:13
keriolohn: are you sure that your removal of the kernel is what caused the problem?16:13
keriobecause removing kernel-power-installer won't reflash the old kernel16:13
lohni guess not?16:13
kerioin fact, there's no way to do so without internet, because the stock kernel isn't saved anywhere on the device16:14
qwazix_btw I have flashed the N900 from linux many times that is definitely not the problem16:14
kerioit has to download the stock kernel to flash it16:14
keriolohn: were you able to flash your n900 in the past?16:14
lohnI had tried, but was on 32 bit16:14
keriois your microusb port working?16:14
lohnhow would I know?16:15
keriodid it charge, before?16:15
lohnit had worked before..16:15
Lava_Croftis your battery charged enough16:15
lohnwell it keeps turning on and off, won't even charge really16:15
Lava_Croftdoes the N900 show the USB icon when you boot it with 'u' pressed16:15
lohnfor like 5 seconds16:15
Lava_Croftn900 cant charge without being in maemo16:15
qwazix_Lava_Croft, correct16:15
Lava_Crofti experienced that first hand16:16
Lava_Croft<3 my DT-33 external charger16:16
Lava_Croftand 4 batteries16:16
qwazix_lohn, do you have any other recent nokia smartphone (recent as in ~4 years)16:16
lohnno, unfortunately16:16
NIN101well, there is emergency recharge, but afaik won't kick in if there is a reboot loop or something...16:16
Lava_Croftbest bet is getting DT-3316:16
Lava_Croftits not that expensive, and it charges more than just the BL5J16:17
kerioLava_Croft: :O i want one16:17
Lava_Croftbut im not really sure that its problem16:17
Lava_Croftits his*16:17
lohnso the non recognize issue is related to power?16:17
keriolohn: no, but it's the same port16:17
qwazix_or find a friend with a recent nokia smartphone and use it to charge your battery16:17
kerioif the battery is low enough, it won't boot correctly16:17
keriowas the battery charged?16:17
qwazix_5800, X6 or N97 would be best (same battery)16:17
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Lava_Croftyou can flash with a relatively low battery tho16:18
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lohnevery once and a while, it will boot up with green text across the top of the nokia logo, saying "device malfunctioning, will shut down in 10s"16:18
lohnnot boot up, but start up16:18
Lava_Croftlohn: you only have linux computers there?16:18
qwazix_but even with a slightly different model (E90, E52, N810) you will be able to contact the battery to the charging contacts good enough to charge it a bit16:18
NIN101lohn: that's the first I ever hear baout something like that on the N900.16:18
kerioqwazix_: NO16:18
keriojust no16:18
Lava_Croftit boots itself?16:18
Lava_Croftor do you boot it16:18
Lava_Croftthe first sounds scary16:18
NIN101the green "device malfunctioning"-message.16:19
qwazix_kerio, why?16:19
kerioqwazix_: repeat after me: "i won't fuck around with lithium batteries"16:19
Lava_CroftNIN101: yes16:19
Lava_Croftnever saw it16:19
Lava_Croftor read about it16:19
qwazix_yesterday we saved a N900 by charging a battery in a E9016:19
lohnhow's this, how about I just send it to one of you guys16:20
lohnif you get it figured out, great16:20
qwazix_They have the same voltage. As long as you don't leave it to fully charge there should be no problem16:20
lohnif not, then it doesn't really matter anyway16:20
qwazix_it's like the dualscud hack16:20
lohnI will pay in bitcoin :D16:20
qwazix_bigger capacity, same voltage16:20
qwazix_no problem16:20
Lava_Croftlohn: can always try to get help on the forums16:21
Lava_Croftpost your problem there, see what happens:|16:21
lohnunfortunately, it looks like maemo is dying16:21
Lava_Croftfrom the nokia side, its been dead for a while16:21
Lava_Croftbut there's still users16:21
keriolohn: there's still an active community16:22
Lava_Croftand as long as there are devices to run maemo on, there will be users that use it16:22
lohncan you guys think of anything that might be potentially wrong?16:22
lohnat what point, are you pretty much up the crick without a paddle?16:22
qwazix_lohn, it's possibly a flat battery, but otherwise you could try a cold flash16:23
kerio"We'll always have CSSU" - Rick Blaine (Humphrey Bogart)16:23
qwazix_~cold flash16:23
infobotmethinks coldflash is and next ~200 posts, or
lohnso, granted the battery is not dead, it should be recognized by the computer?16:24
keriolohn: what did you do with your n900?16:25
lohnits laying around16:25
kerioi mean before the troubles16:25
lohnI was on FAP16:25
lohndeleting crap16:25
keriooh boy16:25
lohnincluding FAP16:25
lohnI have no idea why16:25
lohnmaybe part of me wanted to see what would happen if I tottaly messed stuff up16:25
kerio ?16:26
lohnyeah, about right16:26
lohninterestingly, the phone still worked after that everything was delted16:26
keriountil you powered it off and back on?16:27
lohnit was upon rebooting that the problems started16:27
keriowell, my official diagnosis is that u dun goof'd16:27
keriolohn: try coldflashing, maybe16:27
keriobut make sure that normal flashing isn't working because of a problem in the n900, and not just your computer16:27
infobotmethinks maemo-flashing is
lohnokay.. I guess first step is to charge the battery16:27
keriofollow the guides16:27
Siceloaiui it's very seldom you need coldflashing16:28
keriolohn: that's always a good idea, but it might not be easy16:28
NIN101as already that, this probably won't work, but:16:28
keriodo you have access to a compatible phone/charger?16:28
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover16:28
kerioNIN101: hm, what needs to work for that?16:28
keriojust NOLO?16:28
lohnwell, thanks for the help guys, I am going to try again16:29
lohnuntil then, I have a nice 10 year old blackberry16:29
NIN101I think this may not work in a reboot-loop maemo, but I don't know.16:30
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lohnlast question: is this legit?
lohndoesn't look like it16:32
Lava_Croftat least the design is legit16:32
Lava_Croftand dt-33 isnt expensive at all16:32
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zeqfreemangordon: ok cool.  It is working btw :)16:39
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Lava_Croftneed someone who wants to toy around in QML16:56
Lava_Croftneed a spin-dial for my n90016:56
Lava_Croftso i can enter numbers like on my old spin-dial phone!16:56
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kerioi just realized that "Battery" in the status menu is absolutely useless17:01
keriois there a way to make it more useful?17:01
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qwazix_kerio, advanced battery status plugin17:03
qwazix_or something17:03
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qwazix_jonwil, hi17:04
kerioqwazix_: nope17:05
kerioAdvanced power17:05
Lava_Croftfreemangordon: i can once again confirm that kernel-power equals way less battery hours :<17:05
Lava_Crofti tried thumb-cssu17:05
qwazix_Lava_Croft, disagree17:06
Lava_Croftqwazix_: i never knew you were watching my n90017:06
Lava_Croftand therefore can disagree with my observations17:06
Lava_Croftbut go ahead! :)17:06
qwazix_no, I meant that I disagree that kernel-power equals less battery hours17:07
qwazix_not "kernel-power equals less battery hours on Lava_Croft's N900"17:07
Lava_Croftits a different reality over here, sadly17:07
Lava_Crofti get around 20% to 30% less battery time, for some strange reason17:08
qwazix_so it's probably something with your configuration17:08
Lava_Crofti had it before with kernel-power17:08
Lava_Croftmy config is near default:)17:08
Lava_Croftactually, it was default on the thumb device17:08
qwazix_(or your hw revision?)17:08
Lava_Croftand i already ran through quite some stuff with freemangordon before17:08
Lava_Croftthe hw revision could very well be the case, yes17:08
Lava_Crofti have two n900s, from different factories17:09
qwazix_I just rushed to disagree as I have a reflashed N900 with almost no apps (X-chat and cradio)17:09
Lava_Croftits not in any way the usual "KP SUX OMG" rant17:09
qwazix_and installed thumb, and I didn't notice any significant battery drain17:09
qwazix_the opposite really I feel that it lasts a bit longer17:10
Lava_Crofti did, as i did before :<17:10
Lava_Croftits not that i really mind it myself, but its always worth noting17:10
Lava_Crofti can live with KP just fine17:10
Lava_Crofter without*17:10
qwazix_Lava_Croft, ofc17:10
Lava_Croftits just annoying as hell17:10
Lava_Crofti know damn well that it should actually not hurt battery life, or actually have a positive effect on it :<17:11
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kerioqwazix_: hmm, Advanced Power has a setting regarding which battery to show17:16
kerionokia bme, nokia bme alternative, dummy17:16
keriowhat's nokia bme alternative?17:16
qwazix_kerio, Don't know, do you have kernel-power?17:16
kerioi have17:16
qwazix_I remember there was a setting to use bq_27x0017:17
qwazix_which was a bit more accurate17:17
qwazix_but I don't remember bme alternative altogether, maybe something recent17:17
Lava_Croftits been in there for a while, dont know what it is either17:17
Lava_Crofti think the BME alternative is actually bq_27x0017:18
kerioand wtf is dummy?17:21
keriobme alternative reports a slightly lower battery charge17:21
Lava_Croftall i recall about bme alternative is that it was broken17:21
Lava_Croftbut thats from quite a while ago17:21
Lava_Croftit probably has changed by now17:21
keriovaguely unrelated: still no opensource BME replacement?17:23
freemangordonkerio: FOSS replacement not ready17:24
freemangordonkerio: why sad? get the source and complete it :P17:25
keriosure, i'll get my ninja suit17:25
keriois the source code stored in finland? it's cold there17:25
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freemangordonkerio: in gitorious17:25
Gh0styprobably on ice! :p17:25
keriofreemangordon: i meant the official BME17:25
freemangordonkerio: but you don't need it. And I was serious, just grab the source from and and add what is missing17:28
freemangordonLava_Croft: the only way to have less battery life with KP or KCSSU is to have something broken on your side. And it is SW not HW that is broken17:29
Lava_Croftfresh device17:30
Lava_Croftusing a lot of streaming audio over 2g all day long17:30
Lava_Croftwe talked about this before, no idea where it comes from :|17:31
freemangordonstock frequencies?17:31
Lava_Croftyes, everything untouched17:31
Lava_Croftyou got me to toy with SR before, i didnt toy with it this time around17:31
keriokcssu? :o17:31
freemangordonLava_Croft: don't get that, but anyway, the way battery life is prolonged in KP is SR17:32
Lava_Crofti know, :)17:32
Lava_Crofti just wanted to report it again, since this is a 'new' way i tried KP17:33
Lava_Croftwith cssu-thumb17:33
freemangordonkerio: kernel-cssu, the one that is used with thumb binaries17:33
Lava_Croftyou dont enable SR by default on cssu-thumb yet?17:33
Lava_Croftor ever will?17:33
kerioused with what? :o17:33
Lava_Croftkerio: look on TMO for 'announce cssu-thumb' orso17:34
freemangordonLava_Croft: no, I didn't want reports of thumb being broken ;)17:34
Lava_Croftfreemangordon: i figured17:34
Lava_Croftbut i would have reported it if it changed too, so meh17:35
freemangordonbut enabling SR will come in near future17:35
Lava_Croftits not something im really angered about orso, but it still remains strange17:35
keriowhat's SR?17:35
kerioand do i have to do anything, if i installed CSSU and kernel-power?17:35
Lava_Croftfreemangordon: ill just keep looking at it with every new release:)17:35
Lava_Croftone day it might work!17:35
freemangordonLava_Croft: which one?17:35
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keriooh no, it's a different cssu17:36
Lava_Croftthe overall battery thing in relation to KP17:36
Lava_Croftwether its with cssu-thumb or just KP17:36
Lava_Crofti can do fine with KP and cssu-thumb is on my second n90017:36
Lava_Croftso its not an actual problem for me17:36
Lava_Croftwithout kp*17:36
keriofreemangordon: how does your -thumb repo work?17:37
freemangordonLava_Croft: so, lemme check if I got that correct. your second device has worse battery life that your primary? primary is with stock kernel, while second is with KP. Correct?17:37
kerioand do those programs work with the standard KP?17:37
Lava_Croftfreemangordon: no17:37
Lava_Croftevery device i tried KP on had worse battery life17:38
Lava_Croftwith or without SR, fresh or tailored to my tastes17:38
Lava_Croftthats why we talked about it before:)17:38
freemangordonLava_Croft: lets then find the common denominator (besides KP)17:38
freemangordonLava_Croft: I man to that young I used to be :(17:38
freemangordon*I am not that17:38
Lava_Croftnor am i17:39
freemangordonSo I can't recall what we were talking17:39
Lava_Croftbut you get much more people whining about cssu than i do17:39
Lava_Croftso its easy to remember for me17:39
Lava_Croftor KP, or SR :)17:39
Lava_Croftyou actually helped me locate a bunch of apps that used a lot of python etc17:39
Lava_Croftso you did help me get some more usage out of my battery:)17:40
keriofreemangordon: yeah, i figured17:40
Lava_Croftalso the second device is currently running meego17:40
freemangordonLava_Croft: hmm, but I was thinking we solved your issue.17:40
freemangordonLava_Croft: how long your battery lasts?17:41
Lava_Crofti havent done a 'scientific' test on it17:41
Lava_Croftbut generally i dont have to recharge before i go to bed17:41
Lava_Croftand i get up at 4am and go to bed around 9pm17:42
keriofreemangordon: will it overwrite my beautiful kernel-power? :c17:42
Lava_Croftand stream audio over 2g several hours a day, besides browsing quite a bit with opera17:42
freemangordonkerio: yes17:42
Lava_Croftso it actually does quite nice already17:42
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Lava_Crofti can flash the second device with stock pr1.3.1 first, and have it play some music until the battery dies17:43
freemangordonLava_Croft: I will appreciate that17:43
Lava_Croftand then repeat the same test with cssu-thumb (with and without 'tweaks')17:43
Lava_Crofti will not do it this weekend tho, since this is my vacation17:43
Lava_Croftso it will be next weekend:)17:44
Lava_Croftwork starts again on monday:<17:44
Lava_Croftand i have to mentally prepare for going to nokia care with my n917:44
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freemangordonYou have plenty of time, as I won;t have time to do anything for the next 10 days or so, I am going on a vacaion17:44
Lava_Croftmake sure you dont do any maemo related shit during your vacation17:45
Lava_Croftat all17:45
freemangordonbut I will appreciate that test, so we can be sure there is something. Or not ;)17:45
Lava_Crofti want it for myself too, i guess17:45
freemangordonLava_Croft: be sure I won't :)17:45
Lava_Croftgood, that means you will be invigorated once you return17:46
freemangordonLava_Croft: I will remember to pester you once I am back :P17:46
Lava_Croftgood, since i am good at forgetting stuff that i have to do myself17:46
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freemangordonas if there is something broken in KP I wan't to know it17:46
Lava_Croftyes, naturally17:47
Lava_Crofti want to know if im being silly too17:47
freemangordonyeah. BTW we found one bug in KP that could be sucking battery, it is related to script trying to echo 1 to fmtx lock. will be fixed in next KP/KCSSU17:48
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keriofreemangordon: how does the -thumb repo work? the packages have a higher version than the packages in community-testing?17:59
freemangordonsomething lik ethat17:59
kerioso what is it?18:01
keriohigher priority?18:01
freemangordonit appends -thumbN to package version, making it higher than tccu-test18:02
freemangordonkerio: ^^^18:04
keriofreemangordon: neat18:05
freemangordonkerio: BTW kernel-cssu IS kernel-power with some additional stuff that workarounds silicon bugs18:05
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freemangordonbut you may want to wait Pali to push new kernel-power-settings, which is compatible with both KP and KCSSU18:06
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keriofreemangordon: k18:07
keriowell, it's not like i use kernel-power-settings18:07
kerioisn't it only for overclocking?18:07
keriofreemangordon: if thumb binaries are so good, why aren't they in cssu-testing?18:12
BCMMwhat's the best way of sending keyboard input from the n900 to another machine (linux/X11)?18:12
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BCMMi mean, using the n900 as a wireless keyboard. I usually end up using VNC but it's not exactly optimal for the situation18:12
kerioBCMM: well, why not?18:13
kerioVNC has (or should have) a way to only send input18:13
BCMMah, i should look in to that18:13
BCMMi was also wondering if there is a decent way of sending mouse input touchpad style18:14
BCMMthere are a few android/ios things that do something similar18:14
Sicelosymbian did that first :P18:15
NIN101well, in theory it could be done sending some /dev/input/ business using netcat or something, if the ther machine is linux.18:15
zeqBlueMaemo does it over bluetooth18:15
BCMMzeq: damn, that looks brilliant except for the bluetooth18:15
NIN101but thanks to keyboard mapping etc. it won't be fun.18:16
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BCMMNIN101: wouldn't work nicely for mouse18:17
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BCMMi'm looking at the bluemaemo video and it's pretty much exactly what i was thinking of except for running over bluetooth18:18
keriohm, why is SR enabled by default? it used not to be the case18:18
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BCMMhmm, looks like there is discussion but no such thing18:19
BCMMsomebody on the forums points out what i was thinking, which is that you could probably abuse the synergy client to avoid having to write clients for various platforms18:19
keriofreemangordon: will kernel-cssu eventually be merged in kernel-power?18:20
kerioand/or viceversa?18:20
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keriofreemangordon: i read a bit about the thumb binaries19:22
kerioif they're so good, why aren't they used already?19:23
kerioor, at least, why isn't CSSU going to use them officially?19:23
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vi_any open media player experts here?19:31
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keriovi_: i use it!19:38
keriothat makes me an expert, right?19:38
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prontokerio: depends, did you stay at a holiday in express last night?19:46
keriopronto: nope, just my bed :(19:47
prontothenno expert19:47
kerioit's a comfy bed though19:47
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kerioand i live with my parents, so i have lunch *and* dinner covered19:47
keriofor free!19:47
Sc0rpiusnow that's nice.19:48
udovdhkerio, depending on your age this might be part of the new economic paradigm and not so good19:48
kerioudovdh: i'm 2019:48
udovdhthat's on the edge ;-)19:48
kerioi'm still a student19:49
kerioit counts for something, right?19:49
Sc0rpiusthose paradigms suck, I should go back living with my mom :/19:49
Sc0rpiusand she'll be happy if I do that actually19:49
udovdhyup, but prepare for moving out...19:49
Siceloand damn! does my network suck!19:49
Siceloeew, wrong window19:50
jabiswho has it in their right mind to move BACK  to their parents x)19:50
Sc0rpiusI would definitely19:50
Sc0rpiusI guess depends on the parents too19:50
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jabisI mean - for what purpose? x)19:50
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Sc0rpiuspeople in their late 20s or their 30s actually love to be away from the parents19:51
Sc0rpiusin your 40s you actually start missing them a lot19:51
Sc0rpiusand in your 50s when you don't have them anymore, it REALLY sucks.19:51
Lava_Croftits all depending on the situation:P19:51
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jabisI appreciate my parents - but you're here to live your own life19:52
Sc0rpiusanyway I go to lunch with my parents every tuesday and thursday :)19:52
Sc0rpiusat home19:52
vi_Sc0rpius: you are a god guy.19:52
Lava_Croftmy parents live about 300m away from me, i see them once a month orso19:52
jabisthat's a nice tradition :) I tend to see my mom at least every week too19:52
vi_Lava_Croft: really?  BUT THEY ONLY LIVE  less than 1/3 of a KM from you!119:53
Sc0rpiusyeah 300 meters is walking distance19:53
Lava_Croftyes, same village19:53
jabisrange approx 50km19:53
Lava_Croftnear peeing distance19:53
vi_now somone tell me why OMP will not open AAC files?19:53
Lava_Crofttheres no need for us to see each other that often :)19:53
jabismy younger siblings still live with my mom - so I don't need to worry x)19:53
Lava_Croftvi_: it opens aac streams19:54
Sc0rpiusthat Jolla startup sounds nice19:55
keriovi_: i find that kinda hard to believe, most of my music is AAC19:55
Sc0rpiusbut I wonder who will make the hardware19:55
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keriovi_: yep, false19:56
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DocScrutinizer05Scorcerer: it seems jolla will do20:16
qwazix_vi_: does regular media player play those files?20:18
NIN101is OMP using tracker?20:20
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vi_kerio: yep, false?20:23
vi_kerio: You have no idea what tF you are talking about.20:24
vi_qwazix_: Yes, regular MP does play files.20:25
vi_Allow me to explain.20:25
vi_You click on an mp3 through file manager, it opens said mp3 file with OMP.20:25
vi_You click on an AAC file (as recorded with recaller) and it will open OMP but the file will not play.20:26
vi_it will show 0/0 files available.20:26
vi_As if the playlist is not populated.20:26
vi_If you rename the AAC file to an MP3 file, it will play just fine.20:26
vi_So, how tf do you open AAC files with OMP?20:27
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: ^^^20:28
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keriovi__: ooh, how do you select OMP as the default program to launch when you open a multimedia file?20:43
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jean_bratHi DocScrutinizer20:46
jean_brati posted this question 6 hours ago.. but you were not around.. and some one said you might be an expert to know this one20:47
jean_bratHi these keys [Shft Fn   CTRL      Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one.20:47
jean_bratis there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it?20:47
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kerioin general, how do i choose what's the "default application" for a certain file type?20:51
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StyXmancan someone tell me where can I get marble's source package? I want to try a patch for it... I have my scratchbox setup and ready20:54
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keriono, seriously, is there a way to change the file associations?20:58
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StyXmanI got to, but no sources :(21:02
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StyXmanalso: should I update my SB setup to SSU?21:03
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Sicelohmm, so i'm late to the Jolla news. I wish them well. just a question.. i assume use of code they had worked on while they were Nokia employees will not necessarily be permitted, right?21:08
SpeedEvilGenerally not, unless it's GPL21:10
Sicelosuggesting that they'll be sort of forced to start on a fresh slate, unless they ask for, and get, permission for reuse of code from Nokia21:10
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SpeedEvilChances of - for example - maemo 5.1 are zero.21:11
Sicelojean_brat: you have the service manual?21:11
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StyXmanSpeedEvil: not necesaarily, if the resulting binaries were not distibuted, the GPL doesn't give you permission to just take the sources21:11
kerioSpeedEvil: how do i change the file associations?21:12
jean_bratyes i have the PDF21:12
SpeedEvilStyXman: yes, but if you have the sources, you can fork the sources.21:12
SpeedEvil(assuming there were no other constraints on you )21:12
Siceloi was just asking jean_brat. i guess you need someone to scrutinize the document then :P21:13
SpeedEvilkerio: No clue21:13
SpeedEvilI assume not /etc/mimetypes :)21:13
Siceloso Jolla aims to build hardware, or use existing Harmattan hardware?21:14
kerioshould i just remove mediaplayer then?21:15
jean_bratSicelo, its not much of a help. i wanted to know is.. inside the domesheet how the connections are?21:15
jean_bratwhere the domesheet gets the supply from the main supply line to pull up these pads21:15
kerioand hope that OMP will pick up its role?21:15
SpeedEvilSearch for keyboard matrix on the wiki21:16
jean_bratya i have seen that Sicelo . my question is .. how it is inside the domesheet? where does the domesheet gets the supply for a particular key21:19
jean_bratrouting inside the domesheet.. any diagram for that?21:19
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Siceloi don't know much hardware-wise jean_brat. sorry. i've never even taken a screw out of my N90021:20
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jean_bratits ok fella.. thanks for your help..21:21
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jean_bratis there a place i can place my querry..? about n900? in meego site?21:24
StyXmanjean_brat: talk.maemo.org21:31
StyXmanand it's maemo, not meego21:31
DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: there's that little info bit I posted to wiki:21:32
DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: your QROW4 is defect. Quite probably not a problem of domesheet21:35
jean_brati figured that. and thought its not getting the supply from the board to pull up.. but don know whcih part of the board21:37
DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: eiter your QROW4 trace has a short to GND (or other signal), or a break, or the GAIA chip pin/GPIO is defect21:39
jean_bratHi DocScrutinizer could you please explain me from the diagram shown in pagenumber 20 of service manual?21:43
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no service maual at hand atm21:43
DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: please test if "u" key still works when you hold "t" key pressed21:43
jean_brati can send if you want? PDF.. just take a screen shot21:44
jean_bratDocScrutinizer, what does that prove?21:44
DocScrutinizer05it proves QROW4 not pulled to GND hard21:45
DocScrutinizer05so it must be a break then21:45
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DocScrutinizer05if QROW4 was short to GND (or other alien signal), pressing "t" connects QCOL0 to same level. This should stop iuyrewq keys to work as long as t keys pulls QCOL0 to GND via QROW421:47
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DocScrutinizer05for all I know the domesheet has no traces whatsoever, just contact pads to short 2 contact rings on each key position21:48
DocScrutinizer05so nothing you could fix on domesheet to make QROW4 work again21:48
DocScrutinizer05I'm rather afraid you got a fatal defect21:49
jean_bratU works even if i kept pressing the T button21:51
DocScrutinizer05can't tell for sure without inspecting the device myself, but probably your GAIA chip is broken21:51
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, that confirms it's not an accidental short of QROW4 to any other signal21:51
DocScrutinizer05so it has to be a break in QROW4 trace21:52
DocScrutinizer05probably inside chip21:52
DocScrutinizer05or on chip solder point21:52
jean_brati already lost faith on this.. so be it.. lets screw this thing21:53
jean_bratcan you point me to the main keyboard control chip?:21:54
jean_bratfrom the diagram?21:54
peterbjornx_n900twl4030 i think21:58
jean_bratGAIA chip that you have mentioned DocScrutinizer21:58
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peterbjornx_n900thats gaia iirc21:59
jean_bratthanks peterbjornx_n90022:01
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jean_bratare you sure abut this peterbjornx_n900 ?22:02
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peterbjornx_n900not completely22:06
peterbjornx_n900but as far as i can remember the twl4030 handles kb22:06
peterbjornx_n900and tons of other tasks22:06
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DocScrutinizer05GAIA == twl4030 == tps65950 == the companion chip handling kbd among others22:16
DocScrutinizer05page 4 of Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf22:17
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Siceloour jean_brat evidently didn't have that doc22:28
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keriodid someone uninstall mediaplayer successfully?22:48
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Sc0rpiusI think Jolla + Meego + good hardware manufacturer is better than Tizen + Samsung22:50
Sc0rpiusand better than Mer?22:50
Sc0rpiusI'm really looking forward to that22:51
Stskeepswell, it's Jolla + Mer, but sure22:51
Sc0rpiusJOLLA + MER??????????22:51
Sc0rpiusplease don't22:51
Sc0rpiusI thought it was Jolla + Meego :(22:51
Sc0rpiusI mean I tried Nemo and I didn't like it.22:52
SiceloLol. evidently you don't know who Stskeeps is22:52
Sc0rpiusI don't know who anybody is around here :P22:52
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: then he maybe should have downloaded it from the intarnetz22:53
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keriowtf is mediaplayer-restore22:54
DocScrutinizer05~wtf mediaplayer-restore22:54
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.22:54
kerioyou always say that! :C22:54
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(22:55
DocScrutinizer05~wtf wtf22:55
infobotWTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck22:55
DocScrutinizer05~wtf mediaplayer-restore22:55
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.22:55
keriowhy the hell does imageviewer depend on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0?22:55
keriohahaha wow22:55
kerioit depends on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0 OR mediaplayer-l10n-mr022:55
keriowhy does nokia suck so many balls22:56
* infobot rolls the eight ball and gets: Outlook good22:56
keriothat's not a good answer :(22:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you have any clue of how mime types are resolved, when opening files in maemo?22:56
StskeepsSc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make..22:56
DocScrutinizer05kerio: a faint clue, yes. there's sth around .desktop files22:57
DocScrutinizer05each app has some "serviced filetypes" def in .desktop22:57
freemangordonmime types are in .desktop files22:58
Sc0rpiuswell, we'll see I guess22:58
kerioif i remove mediaplayer, will media files be opened by omp?22:58
Sc0rpiusif it's a product as good as the N900, I'm in.22:58
Sc0rpiusand I said N900 not N9.22:58
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: it seems this new spinoff might be not completely averse to hiring me. so odds are I might throw in some helping rant about properties of product, which - I promise - would help to make the final product meet your requirements regarding that23:00
Sc0rpiusthat's good news23:00
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StskeepsSc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make using Mer, for good measure :)23:01
japhkerio, what is omp, is that the thing that we got ootb?23:01
Stskeeps(if i already said that, sorry)23:01
keriojaph: no, omp is openmediaplayer23:01
kerioit's a replacement UI for mafw23:01
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: of course you know it's always the product managers that define the product, never the engineers23:01
DocScrutinizer05err Sc0rpius^^^23:01
japhhms, and here I thought I had every possible repo there is23:01
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freemangordonjaph: it is in in extras-devel23:02
japhbut I have that enabled :(23:02
japhwhat's the package name?23:02
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: and tbh I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want me and my colleagues define fianl shape and appearance of any product23:03
keriojaph: openmediaplayer, i think23:03
kerioit's a really good UI23:03
keriofreemangordon: should i install cssu-thumb?23:03
freemangordonkerio: it is up to you23:03
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: but I goddamn want product managers to *ask* us about our opinion23:03
keriowill it screw with the rest of cssu?23:03
freemangordonyou'll have some more free RAM23:04
keriothat's good23:04
freemangordonkerio: no, installing CSSU-thumb automagically installs CSSU-testing23:04
keriofreemangordon: i'm already on cssu-testing23:04
kerioi mean, duh23:04
keriowho the hell is *not* on cssu-testing?23:04
freemangordonkerio: most of the n900 owners23:04
DocScrutinizer05proct manager: "it needs OLEDS!" Me: "where? for what purpose? how many?"  PM: "no idea. but make it happen. it needs OLEDS!"  <-- I *HATE* that23:05
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keriohm, what's the package that installs the "Single sign on for Ovi by Nokia" extension in microb?23:06
keriocan i uninstall that in microb?23:06
japh☃_ apt-cache search o'mp|open.*med'|grep play23:08
japhlibcanberra-gtk0 - Gtk+ helper for playing widget event sounds with libcanberra23:08
japhthere's a billion mediaplayer-foobar packages though23:08
keriojaph: "openmediaplayer"23:09
kerioi mean, seriously now23:09
japhwhy doesn't it show up here? I do have testing enabled23:09
keriomaybe it's only in -devel?23:09
japh☃_ grep devel /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list23:10
japhdeb fremantle free non-free23:10
japhdeb-src fremantle free23:10
japhthis, no?23:10
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japhok, guess what23:13
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: btw N9 is all but a sub-par piece of hardware craftmanship. Just I guess the product requirement specs don't exactly meet your taste23:13
japhopenmediaplayer unvanished now23:14
japhthough it feels like I've been doing nothing but apt-get updates all day23:14
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DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: in fact I think it's one of the cutest *phones* I ever owned23:15
Sc0rpiusI didn't know you had one23:15
DocScrutinizer05$Nokia thought I need one for hw reference purposes23:15
DocScrutinizer05and my attestation is: it's quite nicely built23:16
DocScrutinizer05just absolutely not what I want to use23:16
kerioDocScrutinizer05: would you use it if it had a physical keyboard and maemo?23:17
DocScrutinizer05probably yes23:17
DocScrutinizer05I'd still _miss_ the uSD slot though23:17
keriofreemangordon: how much do i have to download to install cssu-thumb? i'm kinda short on traffic for the summer, sadly23:21
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freemangordonkerio: NFC, about 40-50 MB. HAM will tell you the value23:21
kerioi suppose i can deal with that23:22
kerionot sure, i have to think about it23:22
keriofreemangordon: will it remove kernel-power-installer?23:22
kerioi mean, by itself?23:22
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freemangordonkerio: and what is kernel-power-installer?23:24
keriofreemangordon: the thingy that installs KP23:24
freemangordonaah, you mean kernel-power-flasher? no, it will stayu there, along with kernel-power-modules23:25
freemangordonand all other kernel-power-* packages23:25
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keriobut why? kernel-cssu clearly conflicts with it23:26
keriobecause, you know, it's another kernel23:27
freemangordonconflicts? in what exactly way? what if you want both kernels u-bootable?23:28
keriothen you'll quickly find that your old kernel can't boot23:28
keriobecause a good third of your installed system requires the new kernel23:29
* DocScrutinizer05 hmmm's loudly23:30
freemangordonkerio: I heard from the maintaner, that next KP will have thumb errata fixes included :P23:30
kerioyay ^_^23:31
japhkerio, woah!!23:31
DocScrutinizer05the kernel itself has just an added feature to support thumb23:31
keriojaph: what?23:31
freemangordonwhich will be included in next KP23:31
DocScrutinizer05nothing that could potentially conflict too much with anything PK or stock kernel23:32
japhkerio, there was this strange looking icon in that openmediaplayer thing that I mashed, and what happens? it's using this DLNA or whatever it's called to access all of my shit on the n95023:32
japhvery cool, but very dangerous23:32
kerioif cssu decides to move to thumb binaries, they'll have to actually make people install PK, right?23:32
keriojaph: neat23:32
freemangordonkernel-cssu will be a part of that binaries23:33
keriobut kernel-cssu is kernel-power23:33
DocScrutinizer05besides cssu never will "move" to thumb, it will just need a kernel that has thumb-errata workaround feature23:33
freemangordonif there is no KP already unstalled23:33
freemangordonkerio: so what?23:33
kerioso... something something overclock something something slippery slope23:34
keriosomething something DocScrutinizer23:34
freemangordonwho told you KP is OC only?23:34
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DocScrutinizer05this thread lost me23:34
keriofreemangordon: idk, i only install it for wifi injection23:34
DocScrutinizer05kerio: example wifi-hotspot23:35
kerioooh right23:35
keriothat too23:35
DocScrutinizer05kerio: it needs netfilters in kernel23:35
freemangordonkerio: ever heard of SR, 720p, etc..23:35
kerioi don't have a data plan as of now though, so i still haven't installed it23:35
DocScrutinizer05kerio: it will depend on any kernel providing that feature23:35
keriofreemangordon: i didn't know SR required KP :o23:35
kerioand what's that 720p thing?23:36
kerioyou need a special *kernel* for hd playback?23:36
freemangordonkerio: google is your friend, ask gogle for "n900 720p"23:36
freemangordonyeap, that special kernel is KP23:36
freemangordonkerio: not only playback ;)23:37
keriowtf, 720p video capture?23:37
keriothat's neat23:37
keriothe fact that you have to overclock the dsp is kinda bad though23:37
freemangordonwell, even if you don't want DSP OC, using that makes a huge difference for standart resolutions, by by stuttering videos23:38
kerioand i suppose that having a good kernel is required, if you want to dick around with the chips23:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: the whole point about cssu and new kernels is: no modules built for stock kernel will work with _any_ new kernel. So we'd lose all the apps (and users of those apps) that come with kernel modules for whatever weird stuff. If those apps are closed source (think e.g. blessN900, or a USB webcam driver) we're screwed with a cssu that would ship new kernel23:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: blessn900 works with KP, fcam drivers too and I can't think of any other app23:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: on the other hand, backwards compatibility with closed-source stuff is something that cssu shouldn't *aim* for, at least23:40
freemangordonnot that I want to start that discussion now :)23:40
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: doesn't change the basic rationale23:40
keriofreemangordon: joikuspot?23:40
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^23:40
freemangordonkerio: NP with joikuspot AFAIK23:40
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: since you by definition can't know about all the possibly existing packages out there that would conflict23:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that is what CSSU-testing is for23:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do we really want to keep that kind of backwards compat?23:41
DocScrutinizer05kerio: yes23:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ok, so how would you integrate something like cssu-thumb in cssu proper?23:42
DocScrutinizer05since cssu-testing is exactly _not_ about shipping a new not backward compatible OS version23:42
freemangordonyou can take the last fiasco with cbs-widget as an example23:42
keriofreemangordon: which fiasco?23:42
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05 knows23:42
kerioyeah but i don't23:42
keriothat's why i asked23:42
freemangordonsee cssu-testing thread on TMO23:43
DocScrutinizer05the mega fiasco of operator name applet got fecked by this pckg23:43
DocScrutinizer05there's nothing wrong with optional packages, even optional kernels. But no way we'll sacrifice cssu backward compatibility at large for any leete new feature23:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: moar ram! :c23:44
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DocScrutinizer05cssu original idea been that user is allowed to cherrypick any subset she likes23:45
DocScrutinizer05not to replace original maemo by a complete new rewrite23:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: we included a package with no real benefit which breaks another package, agree? But you refuse to include a package with clear benefit, that MIGHT break some yet unknown application. I fail to see the rationale.23:45
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freemangordonre-compile is not re-write23:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do we have some stats wrt the kernel that cssu users use?23:46
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: that's a really nasty way to argue. We did this fault by accident, and ypou suggest we now do it on purpose as we don't yet find the forseeable conflicts and breakages it will give us?23:46
DocScrutinizer05kerio: irrelevant23:47
kerioit doesn't seem too irrelevant to me23:47
DocScrutinizer05anything that's now is vastly irrelevant for what's where we wanna go to23:47
keriothe kind of person who would buy a n900, the kind of person who would install cssu and the kind of person who would install KP are very similar though23:48
DocScrutinizer05"we got 23 users now. So why don't we distribute new OS by sending out DVDs?"23:48
kerioi mean, the last two are obviously subsets of the first, but...23:48
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: Being an accident or on purpose is irrelevant, now cbs-widget is a part of CSSU-T and AIUI we will have to find a way to make it compatible with the package it conflicts with. Don;t see a reason why the same would not work for thumb.23:50
keriowhat does it conflict with?23:50
DocScrutinizer05CSSU is meant to allow painless migration to every N900 user, no matter if she's a kernel hacker, power user, or my granny with no clue abiut KP and thumb23:50
kerio"It just works"23:51
kerioi've heard that somewhere23:51
DocScrutinizer05actually it's not even any migration23:51
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: agree, but it is not by chance that we have 2 flavors23:51
DocScrutinizer05it's merely continuation of what Nokia did, but better23:51
freemangordonand thumb fits perfectly in that23:52
freemangordonthey fail to do it, we make it23:52
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: right, we got Stable only because I pushed it like mad23:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no matter why, we have it23:52
DocScrutinizer05yes, and it has a clearly defined purpose, that doesn't change the definition of cssu-t at all23:53
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DocScrutinizer05cssu-t and cssu-s both are meant to be continuations on stock maemo - just we're not Nokia so we can't switch basic properties of whole system just because some devels think it's leete23:54
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: but it's really, really, really leete!23:54
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DocScrutinizer05we got cssu-thumb for that23:55
DocScrutinizer05and the cssu optional packages23:55
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DocScrutinizer05thumb for a basic change in system properties that'll break continuity, optional packages for all other crap23:55
DocScrutinizer05if that's still not sufficient for you, suggest augmenting23:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: in what way thumb is not a continuation of stock maemo?23:56
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DocScrutinizer05I already elaborated on it23:56
DocScrutinizer05it breaks stuff for old packages23:57
DocScrutinizer05we got cssu-thumb for a reason23:57
freemangordonno, what you said is that it MIGHT break some unknown package23:57
DocScrutinizer05the reason not being it was originally meant to be named cssu-t23:57
DocScrutinizer05no, it WILL break any arbitrary number of yet unknown packages, definitely23:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and the reason to have cssu-thumb was that noone (including me) was 100% sure thumb thingie will actually work without crashes23:59
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: i can make a package that works with pr1.3.1 and stops working with cssu23:59
kerioi can make an arbitrary amount of those23:59
keriowhy should cssu care?23:59
DocScrutinizer05look budy, if you're the leete kernel hacker you say you are, you can build a new kernel that still keeps module compatibilty to old stock kernel modules. I'm mor ethan willing to support a migration to such a kernel23:59

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