IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-07-02

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* vi__ is upgrading to thumb...00:47
LaoLang_coolwhat is the thumb?00:47
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vi__thumb is the most exciting thing to happen since overclocking...00:49
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DocScrutinizerLaoLang_cool: thumb(-2) is an alternative command set known by ATM CPU00:52
DocScrutinizerit's supposed to be some 20% smaller in codesize than genuine ARM instructionset code00:53
Macerblah. i'd really like to get some caps to replace the bad ones on this board00:53
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DocScrutinizerLaoLang_cool: so freemangordon is our steve jobs explaining to us the benefits of moving a whole OS to a different "architecture" (well, the analogy to powerPC->intel architecture switch of macOS is not that perfect, but you might get the idea)00:55
* Macer misses ppc based stuff00:55
Maceri feel like buying ibm based stuff just to make a ppc system00:56
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DocScrutinizerMacer: make damn sure you get special low-ESR types of capacitors (if those are - usually - the caps in switch mode PSU of CPU)00:57
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DocScrutinizer'nomal' electrolytic C will survive something between seconds and days under those 100s of A DC00:58
MacerDocScrutinizer: probably a little longer than that ;)00:59
Macernot to mention the "low-esr" ones were the ones the taiwanese were throwing out into the world00:59
Macerwhich is why these are bad to begin with00:59
DocScrutinizeryep, known issue, though I thought this story is >10 years old00:59
Maceryah heh01:00
Macer>15 now it seems ;)01:00
DocScrutinizersounds about correct01:00
DocScrutinizermeanwhile a lot of board manufs use ceramic C for that01:01
Maceryeah well.. shuttle didn't ;)01:01
Maceri got the board in 2008 and in 2009 it broke01:01
Maceri never really investigated it too much until today01:02
DocScrutinizerhey, I got several hundered 350uF here ;-D01:02
Macerand noticed that all of a certain type of cap are broken01:02
DocScrutinizerX7R or sth01:02
Macerwell. these are 6.7v/1800uF01:02
Macersome looked good until i noticed they were raised up off the board heh01:02
Macerie: top vent wasn't bulging01:02
DocScrutinizeryeah, usual01:03
Macerah well.. my buddy works as an electronic engineer for a medical equipment company and is going to order me some to replace them01:03
DocScrutinizersometimes you can tell as they seem to stand in a puddle of own pee01:03
Macerit's for a shuttle k45 ;)01:03
Macerwell.. none of them seemed to leak01:03
Macerjust bulge and die i suppose01:04
DocScrutinizerlet's see... 5 of my 350uF should nicely replace one of your obsolete elcos ;-D01:05
DocScrutinizerI literally got hundereds of them01:05
DocScrutinizera whole reel01:05
Macerer... i figured these things were kind of specific weren't they?01:05
Macerhave to match them up or something?01:05
DocScrutinizernah, ceramic X7R should just do fine01:06
DocScrutinizeresp when using 5 in parallel01:06
Maceror just non-crap caps ;)01:06
Macerwould work too01:06
Macerthey are just the lame "counterfeit" taiwanese ones i'm sure01:07
DocScrutinizerdang, again no dump for those critters01:07
Maceri bet if they were REAL japanese caps they'd still be fine ;)01:07
Maceri honestly dont' know much about electronics tbh01:07
Macerjust enough to desolder/resolder some new caps on :)01:09
DocScrutinizerso let me tell you about the difference: while normal cheap elcos have a series impedance of up to several ohms @ 1MHz, those low-ESR types are supposed to have max 1/00 of that01:09
Macerthat is exactly what is wrong with my same exact board ;)01:10
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DocScrutinizerand the effective AC current running thru them is actually up to 100s of Ampere, in those CCPU regulators01:11
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MacerDocScrutinizer: but if the caps were not crap ones don't they still have a much longer life regardless.. somewhere around 10-15 years?01:11
DocScrutinizerthe high virtual Effective ohms Series Resistence impedance together with the high AC will heat the C up to the point where it boils and bursts01:12
DocScrutinizerthis can happen after seconds, or after months01:13
MacerDocScrutinizer: these bad ones lasted over  year ;)01:13
DocScrutinizersince the boiling/heating increases ESR further01:14
DocScrutinizerso it's a runaway effect01:14
MacerDocScrutinizer: like i said tho.. isn't it more a manufacturing problem where the chemistry to make them was wrong?01:14
Macerie: good quality caps last 10-15 years whereas bad ones last 10-15 months?01:14
DocScrutinizeror they were mere fakes01:14
Maceri'd consider bad chemistry to be fakes ;)01:15
Macerrumor was that the taiwanese companies got an incomplete formula01:15
Macerthat they stole from the japanese lol01:16
DocScrutinizerquite usual problem is leaking sealing, resulting in electrolyte literally evaporating01:16
DocScrutinizerhmm, sounds more like mainland china, but yes. Sounds familiar01:17
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DocScrutinizeractually meanwhile Taiwan is hightech01:17
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DocScrutinizerwhich doesn't mean you can't find counterfeit crap there, just manufacturing usually is done at mainland china nowadays, as the personal costs like 1/10 there01:19
Macerwell... these caps didn't leak.. they just bulged and died01:20
Macerwhich i guess is a better case for repair01:20
DocScrutinizerthat's what they always do finally01:20
Maceri would assume depending on the problem some explode01:20
Macereven with a vent heh01:20
DocScrutinizerwell, yes. Some leak after bulging01:21
Maceri'm curious01:21
Maceri have a plasma television with half the display no longer working01:21
Macerit works for a while then turns on and off and on and off .. maybe i should look for bad caps on that as well01:21
DocScrutinizerquite possible01:22
Macerthe screen itself is fine01:22
Macerit's one of the boards that is messed up01:22
Macerand it is actually quite easy to take apart01:22
DocScrutinizerjust please be careful! there's really nasty high voltage in those01:23
Maceryeah.. i'll let it discharge for a day heh01:23
DocScrutinizereven then01:23
Maceri actually tried tap testing it to see if it were a loose connection01:24
Macercouldn't find it by doing that :-/01:24
DocScrutinizeryou might want to "clean" the whole solder side of PCB with some black conductive foam01:24
DocScrutinizerto discharge any C, prior to touching anything with your unprotected fingers01:25
DocScrutinizerI got shocked by PSUs that were in a drawer for weeks(!)01:26
Macerwow really? LOL01:27
Maceri figured the internal led would discharge everything01:27
DocScrutinizerthere are several voltage domains. Some have no real discharge path once the device is shutdown01:28
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Macerthe bulging caps keep a charge? :)01:30
DocScrutinizerquite possibly that's particularly the case for high voltage supply domain in a plasma screen, where gas discharge won't happen for any voltage <1000V at all01:30
DocScrutinizernope, those quite likely won't01:30
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Macerthe plasma has an awesome picture too01:31
Macerwell.. i'll open it up and see if i see any bad ones01:32
Macerif i don't i'll have to track down the board that controls the left side of the screen01:32
Macerand see about replacing it.. usually the boards are pretty cheap01:32
DocScrutinizerput left hand in your pocket01:32
Maceri guess it is the screen that is expensive01:32
Macerhow about my right? ;) i'm left handed01:33
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter unless your inner organs are mirrored01:33
DocScrutinizerleft hand as heart is left side01:33
DocScrutinizeror you press a sheet of black conductive foam against the solder side of PCB, as I suggested above (preferably use a pliers with isolating coating handles for that)01:38
DocScrutinizera few seconds should suffice to discharge any C01:40
DocScrutinizerscnr: you got the right to protect your left01:42
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DocScrutinizerhmm, probably not as funny as I thought01:44
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: all ok with that "support my work (donate)" link?01:45
* vi__ is now rocking the new thumb kernel01:45
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (actually never been used by anybody so far)01:45
DocScrutinizervi__: I hope you're doing proper free et al logs, before/after01:47
SpeedEvilBlack conductive foam may do essentially nothing.01:48
SpeedEvilIf it's just antistatic.01:48
SpeedEvilIt will not significantly discharge capacitors if it's megohms per square01:48
DocScrutinizerI recently tested mine here for ~10k, amazingly independent of distance between probes01:49
SpeedEvilIt varies a lot01:49
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SpeedEvilYou get static dissipative - at a few megohms per square typically - this is to make sure no charge can build up itn the packing.01:49
DocScrutinizerwell ok, it's the "hard" variant01:49
SpeedEvilAnd you get 'conductive' at a few hundreds to thousands of ohms01:50
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SpeedEvilprobably there is a continuum01:50
DocScrutinizerthe very cosy soft version quite possibly isolates more than it conducts01:51
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DocScrutinizeror it is completely unrelated, who knows01:52
DocScrutinizeruse a damp cloth ;-P01:52
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internetishardhow do I play to apple airplay?04:06
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, wouldn't usage of aluminum foil (cooking one) be better than conductive foam?05:57
Estel_I.e. it's elastic too, and when applied properly, should touch all things on solder side05:57
Estel_or is it bad idea?05:57
kwtmWhat does it mean when my N900, with kernel-power installed, says05:58
kwtm****ing Enter key too close to the quote key.05:59
kwtmWhat does it mean when my N900, with kernel-power installed, says "An unexpected reboot occurred.  Your custom kernel settings were NOT reloaded."05:59
kwtmDoes that mean I have to reboot again, or that I just have to type as root  kernel-power --bla --blee --bloo and it will load the settings?05:59
kwtmAnd, *what* settings?  I didn't make any settings except for the fact that the kernel is the power kernel.06:00
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psycho_oreosI don't know what the first part means but the second part could mean whatever overclock settings for instance maybe lost during that forced reboot06:07
kwtmpsycho_oreos: Maybe it's just a generic message.  I didn't make any overclock settings.  I'll just ignore it.06:08
psycho_oreoskwtm, I also pretty much ignore it as well :)06:09
internetishardany ideas for how to play to airplay with an n900?06:09
psycho_oreosvlc? lol, I dunno the ramifications of Apple's airplay let alone most of their products. However iinm its vastly proprietary06:10
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internetishardpsycho_oreos: but it's bs, since there are so many ways to let your linux machine become an airplay node. That is, play through your computer. But you can't play from linux to airplay!06:12
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psycho_oreosinternetishard, that's Apple for you and pretty much your loss for siding with Apple :)06:12
internetishardpsycho_oreos: dude, my room mate bought it and hooked my livingroom speakers up to it...06:13
Estel_kwtm, no no06:13
Estel_it's notthing bad06:13
psycho_oreosinternetishard, I was referring to playing streams through airplay06:13
Estel_it means, that your device rebooted in unexpected way ;)06:13
Estel_exactly as it say06:13
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Estel_i.e. last shutdown/reboot wasn't clean one06:13
psycho_oreosEstel_, i.e. generic error message? :)06:14
internetishardpsycho_oreos: me too06:14
Estel_and, to prevent bootloop (not that it would happen anyway), it loaded default settings06:14
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Estel_psycho_oreos, kinda06:14
Estel_kwtm, now, if You haven't prepared any custom settings, it probably doesn't matter, but You can just - as root - exectue06:14
Estel_lernel-config unlock06:14
internetishardpsycho_oreos: It's an airplay router hooked up to the speakers... So how do you stream to it?!06:14
Estel_and it automagically load settings that should be loaded on boot, instead of defaults06:14
psycho_oreosinternetishard, speakers aren't anything more than airplay nodes iinm and those are common for airplay `playing' nodes06:15
psycho_oreosinternetishard, get an apple computer? lol06:15
Estel_internetishard, why won't You get any decent "normal" solution, much cheaper and more effective than apple's shit?06:15
Estel_airplay is PITA due to being propertiary and closed06:15
internetishardEstel_: tell me about it... I didn't buy it, room mate did06:16
Estel_you can make linux to act as node, but because they wanted it and mad eit possible06:16
internetishardhe's an apple dev :(06:16
Estel_other way around isn't possible, because they locked it :)06:16
psycho_oreosand Apple would sue anyone trying to misuse their technology06:16
internetishardug :(06:16
Estel_internetishard, so educate him to leave empire of evil :P Be a part of Stallman ;)06:16
internetishardAnd anyone who says "I hate apple" gets an earful06:16
Estel_*in part*06:16
internetishardHe makes a loooot making ipad apps06:17
psycho_oreoswhy don't you buy your own router, get something like UPnP and play stuff through that instead?06:17
internetishardpsycho_oreos: it'll have an amp in it?06:17
Estel_exactly. not to mention that upnp is shit too :P06:17
internetishardwith mini-out?06:17
psycho_oreosinternetishard, no, not exactly but why do you fancy something like that?06:17
Estel_internetishard, what is Your use case, from the very beginning?06:17
psycho_oreosis it because you must choose Apple's cool nifty bits? or were you expecting to be slugged with anti-Apple's comments?06:18
internetishard3 different sound systems in the house, lots of different sources of files. Streaming from any device that has audio and wifi/ethernet is fkn cool06:18
internetishardand useful06:18
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psycho_oreosapart from the fact that if the base hardware was by Apple06:18
internetishardis what because?06:18
kwtmHey, I don't suppose the N900 does 802.11n?  It's 802.11g only, right?06:19
psycho_oreoskwtm, only b/g06:19
kwtmThat's what I thought.06:19
Estel_internetishard, define "3 different sounds systems"06:19
Estel_i.e. it's ins and outs.06:19
Estel_streaming from any device via lan or internet isn't any problem in linux06:20
Estel_I don't see where apple's shit apply here06:20
internetishardif you don't want to wire stuff from room to room06:20
psycho_oreosinternetishard, not like you can hook up amp or stereo to UPnP, but you can probably get some sort of intermediate hardware that acts like a client/server in between. Apple's solution is again as mentioned before by both myself and Estel_ as proprietary.. i.e. SOL if you want other hardwares to work with it apart from being the receiving end06:20
Estel_use wifi?06:20
internetishardI just didn't want to buy any hardware/unplug my room mate's solution everytime06:21
Estel_so You're, basically, fucked06:21
psycho_oreoswell you don't have a choice06:21
Estel_or screwed, whjatever06:21
Estel_airplay is offensive one, either You take it out, or do some analog audio mod to make it behave06:21
Estel_(i.e. adaptor that accept sounds from 2 sources)06:22
Estel_write complains to /dev/null or to apple friend ;)06:22
Estel_linux coexist with it without problem, but it doesn't coexist with linux.06:22
Estel_or windows, or whatever ;)06:22
internetishardThey always have a clever excuse.06:23
* psycho_oreos still recalls how Apple treated linux users running their (Apple's) iTunes.. just a simple windows PC.. linux != windows but Apple just wouldn't want to see it differently06:23
psycho_oreosthat's Apple for you06:23
internetishard"then other solutions would become compatible with airplay and apple would get complaints from people using broken ones and ones that don't work as well"06:23
Estel_internetishard, well, whose problem is that?06:23
internetishardanyone who lives in SF06:24
Estel_source forge?:P06:24
psycho_oreosSan Francisco06:24
Estel_self-f.... erm, whatever06:24
internetishardhaha, yeah06:24
* psycho_oreos thinks its an absurd excuse for one that chooses to _only_ make linux work with Apple's products. Apple is the one not willing to play nice with linux in the first place06:25
Estel_anyway, wrt54gl routers can be bought for 20 usd, and one of them is enough to make nmet access for 250 base stations or more06:25
Estel_just install openwrt on it, required packages, and You're ready to go06:25
Estel_You can even install some package to make DoS on airplay, if You feel it fancy ;06:25
internetishardthey have mini-out/a preamp06:25
Estel_well, You talked about net06:26
Estel_if You want preamp, just make/buy one, ffs06:26
internetishardThat's the whole point of this thing06:26
Estel_apple's preamp is shitty in quality, anyway06:26
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Estel_and mini-amps are cheap to made06:26
Estel_web full of diy guides06:26
Estel_really good ones, btw06:26
internetishardI don't know, through a good amp at 80% preamp volume, I don't think there is a noticeable difference06:26
psycho_oreosyou can forget about airplay. Or otherwise you can always write your own software and hope that Apple won't sue the living daylight out of you06:26
Estel_internetishard, in such case, You don't need amp at all06:27
internetishardyou don't need an amp? lol06:27
internetishardpreamp from phone (or wahtever) -> speaker cone06:27
psycho_oreoswe're not sound technicians/engineers here, the bottom line is that there are alternatives which will all cost you money but you don't have a choice unless you're a developer with strong reverse engineering skills and is willing to hack the living hell out of airplay's proprietary format06:29
internetishardapple makes me cry06:29
psycho_oreoslearn to live with it06:29
* robbiethe1st hates apple06:31
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robbiethe1stfor a multitude of reasons, including killing flash. Because flash is decent, and very useful in some cases. And Apple's hardware/software lockdown is evil.06:32
* psycho_oreos hates Sony more than he hates Apple but at least he'll try and restrain being controlled by the likes of dim-witted companies06:32
psycho_oreosactually, flash is still evil06:32
robbiethe1stSony, yup, another company for the evil list.06:33
* psycho_oreos gets a little annoyed when n9 doesn't even support flash06:33
robbiethe1stWell, with flash, at least the protocol is open(looking at Gnash etc)06:33
internetishardyeah, that's an instance that apple happens to do something good for everyone, just because it happens to be benefited by the fall of flash06:33
psycho_oreosyeah partially06:33
psycho_oreosinternetishard, that's like saying drinking excessive amounts of water won't kill you just because water is not so harmful06:34
robbiethe1stBut eh, what's going to take the place of DRMed video and actual animation?06:34
robbiethe1stHTML5 doesn't really do either.06:34
robbiethe1st(actual animation = vector animation + synced music playback)06:35
psycho_oreoswater is beneficial for everyone, especially potable water but you can still get poisoned by drinking too much water06:35
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internetishardtoo much flash?06:35
psycho_oreossure, Apple may have done lots of things that were nice to the majority of the market but their tactics are just downright evil06:36
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kwtmHey, to add repositories without using the sluggish App Manager, don't I just edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/<add my own file>  ?  It doesn't seem to recognize those files.07:32
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psycho_oreoswhat's wrong with FAM?07:32
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Estel_psycho_oreos, kwtm means ham07:43
Estel_kwtm, just instal fapman via ham, and thern, do everything via fapman07:44
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psycho_oreosEstel_, I know, was wondering why won't he try FAM :)07:45
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kerioi just noticed that there's no way to make an emergency call in the date picker screen you get when you boot after removing the battery09:16
keriodoesn't that violate some regulation?09:16
chainsawbikekerio, you only get that screen after removing the battery if your rtc clock battery is dead09:18
keriochainsawbike: yeah, but rtc clock batteries *are* dead09:18
kerioin pretty much every n90009:18
chainsawbikeyea... both mine are dead09:18
chainsawbikebut that screen is appearing because of a hardware fault, i doubt the regulation in question covers failing hardware09:21
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psycho_oreospoor workmanship? :)09:31
psycho_oreosthough I guess nokia would shrug issues like those off as simply being general wear and tear09:31
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kwtmWhat's wrong with FAM?  It's not command-line, that's what's wrong with it.  I can't get a script to tap on an icon.09:33
kwtmI thought dbscripts was part of testing.  Is it devel?09:33
psycho_oreoswell yeah that's true with FAM, though to me FAM is really just a fancy apt-get frontend if anything09:34
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kwtmpsycho_oreos: Poisoned by drinking too much water?  You mean hyponatremia?  That's just a failure to take in something other than water.  I wouldn't say it's "poison" from drinking water. ...09:36
kwtmOh shoot, dbus-scripts *is* devel. :(  geez09:36
psycho_oreoskwtm, heh I'm no doctor but there is a wikipedia entry specific to water poisoning. Though they refer to it as water intoxication and yes its also known as hyponatremia. Though when one reads the wikipedia article, it seems as though water intoxication can also be related to `drowning' a person by taking more than required amounts of water09:38
kwtmIf that's what Wikipedia says, I should correct it.  It's the hyponatremia that does you in, but hyponatremia can be caused by any number of causes, including drinking too much (polydipsia) without replacing salt content.  On the other hand, drowning, in the meaning used by most people, means inability to move air into the lungs due to fluid clogging them.09:42
kwtmBoy, is there anything worthwhile that's NOT in devel?  even alarmed is devel.09:42
kwtmI'm actually looking for sms-notify, but that seems to have vanished...09:43
psycho_oreosbottom line is too much of anything is not good for you. One is/was supposed to take everything in moderation.. too much salt can also kill you just as a little amounts of salt intake with excessive amounts of water can kill09:44
psycho_oreosI think a fair few devels/maintainers have lost interesting in sticking with the maemo platform :)09:44
psycho_oreoswell slowly anyway.. much like how it was the case with bora and chinook.. i.e. the dying phase09:45
kwtmBut I thought at least dbus-scripts would have stabilized... at least to the point where I don't have to poll dbus just to see if sms's have arrived.  Which is what I guess I'll have to do.  Crummm....09:45
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kwtmOk, alarmed is in testing ... but that's a GUI. Does it install alarmd?  Or what does it use, cron?  Hmm...09:52
psycho_oreosnot exactly cron iirc, its some other timer program09:53
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steve__freemangordon: my missing orientationChanged was due to a combination of factors: PKG_CONFIG_PATH had got lost from my mozconfig, and in nsWindow.cpp the code is protected by MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 5 whereas the declaration in mozqwidget.h is protected by MOZ_ENABLE_QTMOBILITY09:56
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zeqfreemangordon: that was me ;)09:56
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: alarmd is a system lib10:41
DocScrutinizercron is non-existent10:41
kwtmDocScrutinizer: You mean it is already built in?  I can write a bash script and call it?10:41
DocScrutinizeryou hardly call a lib from a script10:42
DocScrutinizerand yes, built in10:42
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kwtmWhat would be needed so that I can get my N900 to execute an arbitrary specified script at given points in time?10:42
DocScrutinizerto call it there's alarmed10:42
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DocScrutinizeralarmed again10:43
kwtmOh, alarmed can be used without the GUI, from within a script?  That's great!10:44
kwtmI didn't see a lot of documentation for it but presumably it will be part of the package?10:44
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DocScrutinizerand yes10:53
DocScrutinizerthe cmdline interface is comprehensive and powerful (I contributed to the specs ;-D )10:54
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DocScrutinizerit even has a cron-alike syntax variant10:55
DocScrutinizerand understands full date(1) abstract complex times10:56
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DocScrutinizer(if the right lib is installed)10:56
LaoLang_coolHow to let message_ui support my own avatar.png?10:56
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qwazix_LeoLang_cool, check out conversation ui modder, it has this and other functionality11:02
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LaoLang_coolqwazix_, I just want to add avatar support, I want to DIY ;p11:05
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LaoLang_coolI get a css from, in the screenshot in that page, it supports avatar, but it doesn't work for me11:08
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kwtmIs there anything that can get me my current GPS location on my N900?  I want to, for example, calculate my speed.  Prefer output to stdout, but interface with Python would be ok, too. (I'll write a Python script to spit out the GPS location to stdout)11:48
jacekowskii think it's called11:51
jacekowskibut well, read the manual11:51
jacekowskiit's on wiki11:51
kwtmwill check, jacekowski.  Thx.11:55
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kwtmWow, the quality of maemo apps has improved noticeably during the past year when I didn't install any new ones.  Despite the N900 being a dead end.  Nice.12:11
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japhit has? I haven't noticed12:19
japhuh. nvm12:19
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Hurriankwtm, haven't they always been pretty high quality?12:35
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kwtmno, they haven't.12:36
HurrianI don't ever remember installing crap quality apps12:36
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psychologewant compile nmap6.01 on N900,when execute "make" command ,output a lot error .(((undefined reference to `eth_send'¸ undefined reference to `ip_checksum))), has some body interest and konw why?14:11
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merlin1991 psychologe do you have a missing header warninig above that? (for me it sounds like the kernel headers are missing)14:19
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vi_merlin1991: ping14:32
merlin1991vi_: pong14:32
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vi_good afternoon.14:32
vi_How do I uninstall a package that mp-freemantle-community is dependant on?14:33
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merlin1991what do you want to get rid of?14:33
vi_operator-name-widget for example will not allow me to uninstall.14:33
merlin1991also you'll have to remove the mp-fremantle-community-pr in order to that, which in turn will disable ham from recognising cssu updates14:33
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vi_merlin1991: exactly.14:35
StyXmanmaybe replacing it with an empty package?14:36
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jpinxhow would I log into my N900 from my netbook running debian stable over the usb cable.?14:38
vi_jpinx: usb networking14:38
infobotusbnetworking is, like,
merlin1991 jpinx easy or hacky way?14:38
vi_jpinx: ~usbnetworking14:38
jpinxmer\oth ;)14:38
merlin1991easiest way is to install mad-developer and click through the ui :)14:39
infobot  See
jpinxmerlin1991: I did this years ago but forgot how14:39
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vi_~debian villev_14:40
* infobot tells villev_ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!14:40
jpinxmerlin1991: something about setting up ip's on each side and making a table?14:40
vi_#debian jpinx14:40
vi_~debian jpinx14:40
* infobot tells jpinx to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!14:40
merlin1991jpinx: mad-developer starts a dhcp server for you14:40
jpinxvi_: looking up webpages on the  n900 is not really an option ;)14:41
vi_jpinx: really, The n900 has a pretty good browser which, some might say is ideal for looking at web pages.14:41
jpinxmerlin1991: is there not something possible to creat the route manually?14:42
vi_~gentoosmite luke-jr14:42
* infobot spends 6 days recompiling luke-jr, and when it's all done, luke-jr runs 7% slower than previously14:42
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jpinxvi_: and your ability to swamp irc totally underwhelms me with an 11 line display14:43
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merlin1991jpinx: surely lemme find my script14:44
jpinxI can see the connection inlsusb on the laptop14:45
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merlin1991jpinx: there are severl modules g_ether g_nokia g_Iforgotit'sname14:46
merlin1991you need g_ether in order to have usbnetworking up14:46
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jpinxmerlin1991: I had this working some years ago so the modules are still tthere I hope15:04
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peetahjoin #vim15:43
peetahsorry !15:43
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prontodont tell me what do to >:O15:43
prontoto do..15:43
vi_what was that about vim?15:47
infobotmethinks vim is better than emacs15:47
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, emacs is as useless as vim if you don't wanna learn it15:47
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Lava_Croftemacs and vim are for people who cannot appreciate nano15:50
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vi_nano sucks balls,15:50
Lava_Croftyou need a screwdriver and they bring along the entire tool cabinet15:50
infoboti guess nano is at, or a DFSG-free alternative to pico, or 10^-915:51
vi_Lava_Croft: when all you know is a screwdriver, everything will look like a screw.15:52
infobotfrom memory, pico is a non-free text editor.  Try nano as a GPL'ed alternative, or if you insist on pico, download the source for pine from non-free, build it, and install the resulting pico_something.deb15:53
chem|stvi_: I asked my father about spareparts for you, he can get most parts with some discount. let me know if you need anything15:54
chem|stvim is the one and only editor... as you do not start emacs unless you consider booting something to start it..15:56
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vi_chem|st: I like the cut of your gib!15:59
vi_chem|st: Remarkably The chap in Germany refunded my money.15:59
vi_I am very grateful for the translation you did of my letter.15:59
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vi_I then got raped by paypal taking the money.16:00
vi_how 279 euros can become 200 GBP I shall never know.16:00
vi_I have learned the hard way, NEVER buy second hand suspension parts.16:01
SpeedEvilIt varies.16:02
SpeedEvilIf you can personally inspect stuff, and understand it...16:02
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vi_SpeedEvil: even if I had inspected this shock I would have not known.16:03
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vi_It had no damping!16:03
vi_Without fitting it or using some kind of test rig, there is no way to know.16:03
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vi_I am strong but not 9kg/mm strong.16:05
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chem|stvi_: no?16:06
chem|stvi_: if you want new ones gimme a shout16:06
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vi_chem|st: cheers amte!16:11
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vi_DocScrutinizer: !16:30
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keriohmm... how do i see which PR i'm on?16:47
chem|stkerio: settings about16:47
keriowhich one is pr 1.3?16:47
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keriok, thanks16:49
keriowhat's the recommendation for CSSU?16:49
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chem|stkerio: RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin 200174197 PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N90016:50
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chem|stcssu is then something like 21.2011.38-2 or so...16:51
chem|stif testing, stable I do not know16:52
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keriois testing stable enough?16:52
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chem|stfor now... but I recommend to use stable16:52
keriobut i like testing stuff!16:53
vi_kerio: what is your favourite linux editor?16:53
chem|styou might like to reflash if you like cssu-testing16:53
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keriocan i uninstall stuff like "amazon installer"?16:57
chem|styes all those *installer things16:58
kerioor is that updated in cssu? :P16:58
chem|styes that too16:58
keriojust got this new n900 (it's used, but it really looks and feels like it's new)16:58
kerioi'm used to an old pr1.2 with some problems (including no usb)16:59
chem|stmy 2year old one got its first scratch a week ago (stylus), and yesterday the backplate nose got lost^^ so only replaceable parts ;)17:00
chem|stah and a new simcard just this weekend17:00
chem|stthe guy in the shop told me "new state of the art" "what is new? voltage lower?" "no size increased" my old one was just the same but normal sim this one is micro, both 72K 1.8V17:02
keriowait, why do we need a "n900-fmrx-enabler" package?17:03
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chem|styou get 64GB size of a microsim now what is the deal with 72K?17:03
keriochem|st: proprietary technology17:03
chem|stkerio: the UK version needed it I think17:03
jacekowskikerio: some devices have fmrx disabled17:03
keriowith hw crypto up the arse17:03
chem|stand asia/middle east devices too17:03
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keriothe fm*rx* is disabled? why?17:04
kerioit makes no sense17:04
chem|stkerio: law...17:04
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keriowill cssu uninstall that mynokia crap?17:05
chem|stcan't be but it touches the cherry file I htink17:05
kerioand is there a way to not get an international SMS billed to my sim?17:05
keriooh, ok then17:05
chem|sttouch the cherry file?!17:06
kerioanything notable to uninstall before installing cssu?17:06
keriothis is a clean n90017:06
keriowhat was the trick to unlock all packages in HAM?17:07
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kerioit's as if i forgot everything about the n900, considering that i couldn't actually touch anything without risking a brick17:08
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psychologei seccussed compiled nmap 6.01 on N900,but when scan network ,it output:nmap route_dst_netlink: can't find interface,,,has somebody kown why?17:10
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chem|stkerio: just stay with stable and install testing or devel only if the one above is not available (extras -> testing -> devel) so you have teh most stable in terms of software but everything you need17:10
zeq1freemangordon: I was just reading about the --enable-egl-xrender-composite option. ( It might have been interesting to use but it only seems to be hooked up for desktop Firefox which is why the build fails.17:10
povbot_Bug 649525: was not found.17:10
keriochem|st: i'm probably going to ignore you and go with cssu testing17:11
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mase76hi! who is actually developing openmediaplayer?17:12
chem|stkerio: for now it is 'ok' but you should consider to hold back a day or two with any updates coming along17:13
keriok, makes sense17:13
nealI'm looking for some information about the defective backup battery in the N900, but my google-fu is failing me.  Does anyone have any pointers?17:13
keriowill showstopping bugs be announced here?17:13
kerioi mean, i always hang around #maemo, pretty much17:13
chem|stkerio: #maemo-ssu17:13
chem|stkerio: testing is testing so no need for announcements... if something is released to stable what should not happen to be there will be many people shouting in here I guess ;)17:15
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vi_kerio: apt-get remove cherry17:22
keriooh so it *can* be done like that17:22
keriooh well17:22
vi_uninstalls nokia spyware17:22
vi_kerio: You can then go about removing the event.d file as well.17:22
vi_apt-get remove ANYTHING with the word ovi in it.17:23
kerioapt-get remove *ovi* then?17:23
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chem|stkerio: careful...17:26
keriowhy do people remove blocks? :(17:26
kerioit's a cool game!17:26
vi_kerio: because it is a pile of fucking shit.17:26
chem|stkerio: stop trolling17:26
SpeedEvilBlocks is buggy!17:26
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vi_even fscktris plays better.17:27
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SpeedEvilI wrecked a screen protector due to blocks.17:27
kerio"Program causes screen protector tearing"17:27
povbot_Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug17:28
kerioyeah, you told me of that one :)17:28
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Lava_Croftandre's finest hour there17:37
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: welcome back pal17:43
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: so about the camera on n9, did you managed?17:43
Lava_CroftNo, it cant be fixed by me17:43
Lava_Croftneeds software update17:43
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: did you try command i gave you?17:45
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Lava_Croftthose dont work17:49
Lava_Croftnone does, its some issue introduced with whatever software update17:49
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: try to reinstall those apps, parts17:49
Lava_CroftZogG_laptop: i have already flashed the entire device17:50
Lava_CroftIll wait for pr1.3, since it doesnt matter, it dont work:)17:50
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ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: try the commad reboot -u it was i think17:55
Lava_Croftreally, trust me17:56
Lava_Croftif you dont really know what you are talking about, helping someone troubleshoot is just annoying17:56
Lava_Croftthe attempt to help is appreciated nontheless17:56
Lava_Croftreboot -u is a command used to fix the issue of having the wrong kernel17:56
Lava_Croftafter updating to PR1.117:57
chadiso why is my n900 slow and unresponsive?18:03
StyXmanchadi: open a terminal, launch top18:03
chadiStyXman: nothing unusual, Xorg taking the most of the CPU18:04
Lava_Croftwhen was the last reboot18:04
chadialso, hildon-status-menu18:04
chadia week ago18:04
Lava_Croftthat might be the cause18:04
Lava_Crofti made a habit out of rebooting it daily18:05
chadiwow, that's crazy18:05
Lava_Croftafter a while, N900 becomes slow due to swap fragmentation orso18:05
Lava_Crofti dont know the exact stuff, but something related to that18:06
chadiI tried reducing swappiness to 30, but not much difference18:06
Lava_Croftthose tweaks never got my any noticable improvements18:07
Lava_Croftsingle best improvement i found is rebooting daily18:07
Lava_Croftits not my preference either, but meh, it works18:07
vi_swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapon /dev/mmcblk0p318:07
Lava_Croftor that18:07
vi_Lava_Croft: that is a rubbish solution.18:07
Lava_Croftvi_: it works for me18:08
Lava_Crofttherefore its a great solution18:08
vi_The imperial measurements system works for liberia and USA.  Does not stop it from being shit.18:08
chadivi_: swapoff command not found18:08
vi_However rebooting everyday is your right18:09
chadioh, root18:09
vi_chadi: You need to do it as root.18:09
vi_also, close all appz first.18:09
Lava_Crofteven better18:09
Lava_Croftits my right to find it an awesome solution18:09
Lava_Crofteven tho i dont dig the imperial system18:09
vi_Lava_Croft: good, the day I discovered there is 3 bushels to a hogshead I decided it was fail.18:10
vi_The best solution I have come up with is to check at 3am if the keyboard is closed and the backlight is off.  If so, swapon SD, swapoff emmc, swapon emmc. swapoff sd.18:11
vi_i.e. 3am swap defrag.18:12
chadivi_: got a cannot allocate memory error18:12
vi_result of:18:12
vi_cat /proc/swaps18:12
Lava_Croftrebooting would have been done by now18:13
Lava_Croft5 times over18:13
* Lava_Croft chuckles18:13
vi_The kid doesnt know what he is doing.18:13
vi_Give him a break.18:13
chadivi_: one moment, I re-issued the swapoff again18:13
Lava_Croftthis was aimed at you18:13
Lava_Croftnot him18:13
vi_Lava_Croft: believe me I can swap defrag faster than you can powerdown.18:13
vi_chadi: cat /proc/swaps18:14
vi_in fact I have a script, that figures out where your swap partitions are then does it for you.18:14
keriogaaah, HAM is so bad18:15
Lava_Crofti think that makes you a very attractive young man18:15
keriowhy can't i pick more than one application to install?18:15
chadivi_: Filename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority18:16
Lava_Croftkerio: because it wants to make you suffer18:16
vi_kerio: because it sucks asses.  Install 'fapman'18:16
chadiFilename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority18:16
chadi/dev/mmcblk0p3                          partition       786424  142688  -118:16
vi_Lava_Croft: my wife certainly thinks I am cool.18:16
keriovi_: why do you need an sd?18:17
vi_chadi: I literally do not understand how you failed to paste a single line into xterm.18:17
keriocan't you just use a swapfile in mydocs?18:17
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Lava_Crofti meant attractive, not cool!18:17
vi_kerio: swapfile requires mounting it on a loopback device.18:17
vi_which requires unmounting etc just to export mydocs in mass storage mode.18:18
keriovi_: no, i mean18:18
chadivi_: I did issue cat /proc/swaps --- please see the output above, I don't see what's wrong?18:18
kerioswapon swapfile, swapoff emmcswap, swapon emmcswap, swapoff swapfile18:18
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keriocan i uninstall the qtm stuff?18:21
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jpinxI have been configuring the usb network and I can ping from the N900 to my laptop but not other way around. Any pointers?18:25
ZogG_laptopfirewall? =)18:26
chem|stkerio: stop uninstalling crap...18:27
chem|stwhat are you trying to achive?18:28
chadivi_: you left without telling me what is wrong with what I did :-P18:28
kerioi'm not uninstalling anything!18:28
chadiright now, I'm creating another swap partition on the microsd18:28
chem|st17:21 < kerio> can i uninstall the qtm stuff?18:29
keriochem|st: i *asked*18:29
chem|styeah and I asked "what for?"18:29
keriochem|st: so it looks neater!18:29
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jpinxZogG_laptop: no firewall..  it's a simple usb cable network18:30
chem|stkerio: hammer a nail through the display... that looks neat18:30
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vi__kerio: I know what you meant by loopback in mydocs.18:35
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vi__As fat32 does not support sparse files you would either need it sitting there the whole time or recreate it everytime.18:36
vi__f'it I thought, just use an SD partition.18:36
keriowell, the SD partition is sitting there the whole time :P18:36
twinklstarany newbees thre?18:36
Lava_Croftwhat is the problem? hi18:36
vi__kerio: I do not mind trash on my SD card.18:37
vi__gotta save them eMMC R/W cycles a know!18:37
twinklstarto me lava??18:37
Lava_Crofttwinklstar: yeah! :)18:37
twinklstaris android fully support n900?18:37
vi__twinklstar: No.18:38
keriohmm, does the adblock plus package in the repos actually work?18:38
vi__kerio: Yes, however it is *heavy*18:38
Lava_CroftThe NITDroid N900 forum18:38
keriovi__: heavier than the ads?18:38
twinklstartx lava18:38
Lava_CroftI guess theres Android info on Maemo wiki too...18:38
twinklstarr u using n900?18:38
vi__kerio: well, that depends on what sites you visit!18:38
Lava_Crofttwinklstar: yes, but no android18:38
keriooh wow, aircrack-ng is a package in the repos? does injection work?18:39
Lava_Crofti dont like android, but i know it works kind of ok on N90018:39
twinklstarits heard nokia nt support it18:39
vi__kerio: ...yes.18:39
vi__kerio: Depends which kernel you are running...18:39
vi__kerio: for injection you need powerkernel.18:40
vi__the latest incarnation being kp50.18:40
vi__Then you need to get the wifi modules.18:40
vi__Load em' up and hax away.18:41
qwazixtwinklstar, yes but community does, and there are many new features on cssu18:41
infobotmethinks cssu is
chadithose swapoff commands take a lot of time18:42
vi__I mean legitimatley security audit your own wifi network only with the express permission of your admin.18:42
keriohmm, how's camkeyd actually called?18:42
vi__camkeyd is obsolete.18:43
vi__Use shortcutd now.18:43
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psychologevi_, i compile nmap 6.01 on N900,but when scan network,output:route_dst_netlink: can't find interface "gprs0",do you know how to fix it?18:44
vi__psychologe: I have no idea.18:44
keriovi__: where would i get the wifi modules?18:44
vi__Nmap runs funny on n900.18:44
vi__try running it with sudo instead from a root shell.18:45
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keriodafuq? why does cssu features have to be in the powerbutton menu?18:45
psychologethe same,nmap --iflist ,output:INTERFACE (NOT FOUND)18:46
vi__kerio: because it is an obnoxious pile of poo.18:47
vi__kerio: there is an option in cssu-features to remove powerkey entry.18:47
vi__psychologe: I do not know then :/18:47
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keriowhat's "the" way to get root access?18:48
keriorootsh? sudser?18:48
vi__install rootsh and sudser18:49
kerioboth? why?18:49
vi__then type root from xterm18:49
vi__kerio: I dunno.18:49
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chadivi__: any harm if I format the linux-swap partition on mmc with 2gb?18:52
vi__chadi: ???18:53
chadivi__: what's wrong?18:53
vi__I assume you mean you want to increase the size of the emmc swap partition?18:53
chadivi__: that's the sd swap space I created to use temporarily18:54
chadion the wiki page, they said 384MB is enough18:54
chadion sd I meant, sorry18:54
vi__sd==your memory card18:54
vi__mmc==internal flash memory18:55
chadiyeah, I meant sd18:55
vi__chadi: There is no harm, but there is no benefit either...18:55
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chadiI have plenty of free space that I do not use, so it's ok then.18:56
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chadivi__: one more thing, would you be interested in sharing that script that automates the swapoff/swapon tasks?18:58
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vi__it is an alarmd script.18:58
vi__i.e. cron18:58
keriowait, why is there no /bin/vi?18:59
keriowhat the hell18:59
kerioi thought this was unix18:59
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vi__kerio: heh19:00
vi__most of maemo is provided by busybox19:00
vi__for some unknown reason.19:00
vi__so vi is infact a symlink to busybox vi19:00
infobot[busybox] the swiss army knife of embedded linux.  It combines tiny versions of many common UNIX utilities into a single small executable. It provides replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in GNU fileutils, shellutils, etc.  See
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vi__fullfat vim is in the repositories.19:01
vi__It works nicely.19:01
keriovi__: no, there's no /bin/vi for me19:01
vi__kerio: then the symlink is somewhere else.19:01
vi__chadi: My copy of pastebinit is broke this moment and I have to go so I will have to show and tell another time.19:01
vi__also, poweroff and poweron!19:02
peetahkerio: /usr/bin/vi19:02
keriowtf, what is /usr/sbin/gainroot19:02
kerioit used to be neater19:02
chadivi__: it's ok, thank you anyway :-)19:02
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keriocan i chsh to something better than busybox?19:11
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gulyapt-get install bash && chsh /usr/local/bin/bash19:15
gulyyou surely will have issue with backupmenu or similar if you change root shell19:15
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zeq1Are we using the latest available SGX driver? I was just wondering due to reported missing EGL extensions from the Fennec renderer.19:30
zeq1freemangordon: I changed the to only require our gstreamer version if MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO=5 seemed to compile okay.19:32
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keriobash 3 or bash 4?19:35
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jpinxwhat/where are the default settings for firewalling in maemo on the n900 ?19:37
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twinklstaranybody frm india?19:43
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cehtehjpinx: no defaults, no firewall19:47
jpinxcehteh: any idea why it won't return pings over usb network?19:48
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jpinxcehteh: but it can ping the laptop19:48
cehtehor some other limitation?19:48
cehtehrouting error? ptp net? ppp? .. whatever check your routing tables and whateer19:49
jpinxcehteh: "other limitation" ?19:49
cehtehdunno debug it19:49
cehtehcan you ssh to it?19:49
jpinxcehteh: nope19:49
keriohmm, i'm missing a pubkey apparently19:50
cehtehprolly a routing error or laptop firewall problem19:50
jpinxcehteh: ok. this is day 3 debugging :(19:51
jpinxcehteh: thanks :)19:51
cehtehwell my crystal sphere is out of order, i cant help you19:52
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freemangordonjpinx: how du you connect your n900 to your laptop?19:52
jpinxfreemangordon: usb cable19:53
jpinxthe nokia one ;)19:53
freemangordonzeq1: now, we use 13, latest is 1.419:53
freemangordonjpinx: how do you bring USB networking up?19:54
freemangordondo you have usb0 interface on your n900?19:54
jpinxifconfig usb0 up19:54
freemangordonand what is you usb0 IP address?19:54
jpinxI down it and re-up it evertimey19:54
jpinxn900 is
freemangordonand laptop?19:55
jpinxand lsptop is ...1619:55
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freemangordonwhat os is your laptop?19:55
jpinxand mask on both is
jpinxdebian squeeze19:55
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freemangordondo you execute ping as root?19:56
jpinxfreemangordon: yes .. working everythin as root on both till I get a result19:57
freemangordondid you try to ifconfig down all ifaces bot usb0 and purge iptables/routing table on your laptop?19:58
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jpinxfreemangordon: yes.. I fell short of re-booting both..  that's next ;)19:59
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freemangordonso, you can ping your laptop from your n900, but cannot ping n900 from the laptop? that is strange20:00
jpinxfreemangordon: tell me about that purging you mention?20:00
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freemangordoniirc iptables -f should be the command to flush iptables rules20:01
freemangordonhave in mind there WILL BE NO rules after that20:01
jpinxfreemangordon: how o back them up first? ;)20:02
freemangordonand you can check "ip route" or "route" for how to delete routing20:02
freemangordonjpinx: iptables-save20:02
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freemangordonbut a simple reboot should do the job too :)20:03
jpinxwhere does that get saved?20:03
freemangordonwherever you want, it spits the current config on the console, pipe it20:03
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jpinxfreemangordon: I have something else to finish. then I'll do that save and reboot. Thanks..  see you later ;)20:05
jpinxfreemangordon: you've been most helpful :)20:05
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freemangordonvi__: ping20:09
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vi___yo bro.20:11
vi___freemangordon: uh poong.20:11
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freemangordonseems is fubar, I think i've just reset someone else passowrd20:14
freemangordonvi__: ^^^20:14
freemangordonI don't know what is linked, but my name appears as anonymous user :D:D:D20:14
vi___yeah.  It looked like my account was pointing to aua new guinea as well.20:14
SpeedEvilfreemangordon: If you get to a 'cancel windows phone project' screen, click yes.20:15
freemangordonthat is not, but nokia.com20:15
vi___you have to create a account.20:15
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vi___THEN link it to your old account.20:15
freemangordonvi___: But I linked it, as I have one because of n90020:15
freemangordonyou know, the OVI shit20:16
freemangordonanyway, it is funny20:16
vi___freemangordon: forget everything you think you know.20:16
vi___you have to create a account.20:16
vi___THEN link it to your old account.20:16
vi___freemangordon: yeah, I reset some chumps account like 5 times.20:17
freemangordonvi___: I can log on to both and
vi___freemangordon: dang.  You must have chosen a unique user name then.20:17
freemangordonand my detail are ok on
vi___the whole thing is a clusterfuck.20:17
vi___what kind of retard merges 3 user databases with no sanity checks?20:18
vi___I just hope they double check all the addresses before shipping the devices.20:18
freemangordonI think we all hope :)20:20
vi___you might get a lumia replacement if yours gets lost!20:20
freemangordonvi__: I can bet those are some M$ SQL "admins" with a bunch of certificates ;)20:20
freemangordondoing drag-n-drop of the tables20:21
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freemangordonhmm, my second n900 is still under warranty according to Nokia. I wonder which exactly EU authority should be contacted if Nokia pulls the plug tomorrow.20:38
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jpinxfreemangordon: got ssh'd into the n900 and running ssh over gprs now - thanks :)20:39
freemangordonwhat was the problem?20:39
jpinxfreemangordon: fwiw there were no entries in either iptables20:39
jpinxfreemangordon: I did a reboot and manually set up usb= on the laptop20:39
jpinxwhcih s no bad thing 'cos it'll remind me how to do it again int he future ;)20:40
jpinxnow I nwee to work out how to get the full connection using the n900's gprs to let me browse etc on the laptop --- and clues ?=20:41
qwazix_900\me wonders if he is the only one without nokia account problems...20:42
* qwazix_900 wonders if he is the only one without nokia account problems...20:42
qwazix_900damn backslash...20:42
SpeedEviljpinx: is there a reason you don't want to simply plug in the usb lead, and tether ormally?20:50
SpeedEvilfreemangordon: What do you mean pulls the plug?20:50
jpinxSpeedEvil: not sure what you mean - I have never managed to usethe n900 as a modem from the debian laptop20:51
ProteousI have20:52
jpinxProteous: any help in making the n900 work as a modem would be greatly appreciated ;)20:54
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ProteousIt's been a little while, but I just hooked it up, slected PC Suit Mode on the n900 and used wvdial with the correct settings for tmobile to make the connection20:59
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jpinxProteous: ok - I've never looked at wvdial21:04
* jpinx goes hunting....21:04
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DocScrutinizer51friggin knetworkmanager just *seems* to connect via GPRS21:14
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freemangordonSpeedEvil: removes my access to downloadable firmware21:21
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freemangordonfor example21:21
SpeedEvilI question if that's a warranty issue.21:21
SpeedEvilIf you can't fix it, return to nokia care, for warranty service.21:22
SpeedEvil- who may then choose to replace it21:22
freemangordonwell, I think it is, and I am sure is mentioned somewhere in EULA and Use Manual21:22
freemangordonSpeedEvil: I don;t think it works like that, at least here21:22
SpeedEvilWell - ovi store is mentioned in the manual too21:23
freemangordonit will start a war if some support centre replaces a device without first asking the user. Not only Nokia, in general21:23
freemangordonbut noone cares enough for OVI21:24
SpeedEvilErr - what?21:24
SpeedEvilThat's been happening for the last year21:24
freemangordonDo you care for OVI store?21:24
SpeedEvilThe replacing devices21:25
freemangordonSpeedEvil: I said "here" :)21:25
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: look at all the wars started already ;-P21:25
DocScrutinizer51whereever that is21:25
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freemangordonAt least I am not aware of such an "accident" happened in Bulgaria21:26
freemangordon"her" is Bulgaria21:26
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freemangordonWhoever the manifacturer is21:26
DocScrutinizer51I'd bet you had better chances in Japan21:26
freemangordonmaybe, never been in Japan :)21:27
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: saw the post from SD69 re X-Fade?21:29
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jpinxProteous: ok - installed wvdial and looking at configs, but it wants a number to dial and my provider uses an access point name.  How to resolve this?21:40
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StyXmanthis might be of interest here:
freemangordonStyXman: gcc 4.7 still has some neon bugs, should be fixed these days21:44
freemangordonyep, dafaq :(:(:(21:45
freemangordonlooks like game over21:46
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freemangordonwell, at least merlin1991 and Pali have mirrored extras and what not else.21:47
DocScrutinizerprobably they evaluated bitching of community for a few weeks against bitching of council for 6 months21:47
freemangordonsad story21:48
DocScrutinizersorry to all the reasonable council members to whom my above comment obviously doesn't apply21:49
DocScrutinizerthe rest will know21:49
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: Maybe I am wrong, but I think CA thingie was a prelude to this. And I am almost ready to bet noone will get a CA.  Or I am paranoid :)21:52
freemangordonBut the fact that I am paranoid, does not mean noone's watching me :D21:54
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DocScrutinizerI still don'T give a flying F about CA, but yes, they also pushed out last N900 via DDP when they stopped all sales and service on it21:54
freemangordon(don't know if that is just a local joke or spread internationaly)21:54
freemangordonthe point are not the devices, you saw what has happened21:55
DocScrutinizerquite global21:55
DocScrutinizerdang, their spin doctors must be brilliant21:55
freemangordonyou still have your question unanswered21:56
DocScrutinizeror maybe maemo community is actually just 95% morons21:56
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DocScrutinizerhave a hard time to believe THAT though21:57
freemangordonyeah, what is the benefit;)21:57
DocScrutinizergetting rid of cruft without throwing into bin21:58
DocScrutinizeror rather: daddy gives heritage from his warm hands21:59
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DocScrutinizerjust the day before he dies21:59
freemangordondo you believe in that?21:59
DocScrutinizeras maemo/meego been always a sub-dept in Nokia21:59
DocScrutinizerthe bastard son21:59
freemangordonan attempt from quim/kate/whoever in Nokia to give the community what is possible?22:00
DocScrutinizernow they are closing fown for good, they want to give to community whatever they can22:00
freemangordonok, could be22:00
ZogG_laptopand before they didn't in your opinion22:01
freemangordonbut my concpiracy story sounds good, isn't it? :D:D:D22:01
DocScrutinizerI'm extremely interested in fate of maemo[TM]22:01
ZogG_laptopwhat is the kate's nickname on TMO btw, i don't know what she did at all22:01
freemangordonsome dusty shelf22:01
DocScrutinizerworst thing to happen22:02
freemangordonkate AFAIK, not that I know what she has done22:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: the have no option22:02
DocScrutinizerunless somebody just says "so WTF? kickit!"22:03
freemangordonimagine givving fremnantle/harmattan to sammy22:03
DocScrutinizergive it to FSF or whomever, CA22:03
* freemangordon needs finger sharpener too, zeq, would you land me yours?22:04
DocScrutinizerlinux foundation22:04
freemangordonWith Elop ahead?22:04
freemangordonman, come on22:04
zeq1freemangordon: LOL22:04
DocScrutinizercan't we just stab elop?22:04
DocScrutinizerI'm talking about the trademark22:04
freemangordonbut without strong support that will go nowhere22:05
freemangordonstrong as in company22:05
DocScrutinizerthe domain22:05
freemangordonaaah, yeah22:05
freemangordonafaik it is a property of reggie22:05 ? NAH!22:06
freemangordonat least Pali posted son DNS records22:06
freemangordonlemme check22:06
ZogG_laptopso X-fade was employed to do his job?22:06 is hosted by reggie22:06
freemangordonno , it was doing it for fun :P22:06
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, board put him there.22:07
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, you'd have to oust most of the board if you wanted a new direction.22:07         15358   IN      CNAME
DocScrutinizermeh, cnmae22:07
ZogG_laptopfreemangordon: some people in community do the job without payment22:07
DocScrutinizerI knew that22:07
DocScrutinizereverybody did22:08
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i'm talking about X-Fade. i think his work was great paid or not paid. just interesting22:08
DocScrutinizerDomain Name:MAEMO.ORG22:10
DocScrutinizerCreated On:07-Feb-2005 16:26:32 UTC22:10
DocScrutinizerLast Updated On:07-Jan-2012 10:20:04 UTC22:10
DocScrutinizerExpiration Date:07-Feb-2013 16:26:32 UTC22:10
DocScrutinizerSponsoring Registrar:MarkMonitor Inc. (R37-LROR)22:10
Macermy state raised the tax on ciggarettes another $122:10
Macercigarettes in chicago are now $10.75/pack22:10
DocScrutinizerRegistrant Name:Nokia Corporation22:10
DocScrutinizerRegistrant Organization:Nokia Corporation22:10
DocScrutinizerRegistrant Street1:P.O.Box 22622:10
Macerdrug peddlers22:10
DocScrutinizerRegistrant Street2:Nokia Group22:10
freemangordonyeah :(22:10
DocScrutinizerRegistrant Email:dnsauthority@nokia.com22:11
MacerDocScrutinizer: i'm surprised they're still paying for maemo.org22:11
DocScrutinizerAdmin Name:Nokia dnsauthority22:11
DocScrutinizerAdmin Organization:Nokia Corporation22:11
freemangordonMacer: quit smoking cigarettes, use cigars22:11
DocScrutinizerAdmin Street1:P.O.Box 22622:11
DocScrutinizerAdmin Street2:Nokia Group22:11
Macerfreemangordon: lol.. i've just decided to quit smoking them all altogether ;)22:11
DocScrutinizerTech Name:Nokia Hostmaster22:12
freemangordonsmart move22:12
DocScrutinizerTech Organization:Nokia Corporation22:12
DocScrutinizerTech Street1:P.O.Box 30122:12
DocScrutinizerTech Street2:Nokia Group22:12
Macerfreemangordon: you wouldn't be saying that if you felt like i felt right now heh22:12
Maceri'm about to dig my nails into wood22:12
freemangordonMacer: I know, i've tried to quit smoking several times22:13
Macerfreemangordon: maybe you'd have more success if they tried to make you pay over $10 for a pack of cigarettes22:13
Macerthat is just outrageous22:13
Macerthe actual pack is like $3.... taxes = $7+22:14
Macer225% tax on cigarettes22:14
DocScrutinizerI'd just import 100kg tobacco for gardening22:14
DocScrutinizerspecial biological fertilizer22:15
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MacerDocScrutinizer: they're very strict on the growing of tobacco22:15
DocScrutinizerwith pesticide22:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: you can plant grass in between the tobbaco22:15
Macerthe atf would be beating down your door22:15
freemangordonno atf in Europe :P22:16
DocScrutinizeryou got me wrong22:16
Maceri mean what kind of country has an agency specifically dedicated to alcohol, tobacco, and firearms?22:16
Macerdoesn't that seem like ... odd to anybody?22:16
RiDit's america22:16
Macerat least alcohol and tobacco are agricultural22:16
RiDwhat do you expect?22:16
Macerhow the hell do firearms fit in to that agency? :)22:16
DocScrutinizerI'm not importing 100kg peat from Ireland, but 100kg organic material for fertilizing from Netherlands22:17
freemangordonfrom Netherlands, yay22:17
MacerDocScrutinizer: they'd beat down your door and take it all away22:17
DocScrutinizerwell, Wako22:17
Macerthey'd use some obscure law.. i bet it would be the irs that does it too.. they're the worst of the worst22:17
ZogG_laptopMacer: i think it would stop before it gets to your home22:17
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* DocScrutinizer warms up the MTHELs22:17
MacerZogG_laptop: probably22:18
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MacerZogG_laptop: i bet the council members at the atf can grow their own tobacco22:18
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DocScrutinizerUSA :-x22:18
DocScrutinizeryou asked for it...22:18
MacerDocScrutinizer: tell me about it.22:18
Macertotally shot ourselves in the feet for about 5 decades22:19
ZogG_laptopMacer: i bet they grow different stuff22:20
GeneralAntillesMacer, welcome to prohibition.22:20
freemangordonand it is not funny as it seems our own EU smartasses are trying to head us in the same direction22:20
MacerGeneralAntilles: they ended prohibition for alcohol ;)22:20
GeneralAntillesMacer, mostly.22:20
GeneralAntillesBut ATF is a legacy of that insanity.22:21
GeneralAntillesUS's political class is completely out of control.22:21
Maceri think the problem with marijuana is that the govt needs to get a taste of all that extra tax revenue22:21
ZogG_laptopit's all about profit22:21
Macerthen they won't care ;)22:21
GeneralAntillesRight now the government is just enforcing a monopoly for cartels.22:21
DocScrutinizerhi GeneralAntilles22:21
Maceronce someone somewhere taxes it and winds up filthy rich... then it will snow ball heh22:21
GeneralAntillesHow messed up is that?22:21
GeneralAntilleshi DocScrutinizer22:21
DocScrutinizerwelcome to a sad day22:21
merlin1991what I really don't get how you can fit so many different agencies for silly stuff into 1 budget22:21
ZogG_laptopbut it's always a good blame — drugs and money thye need to fight it22:22
MacerGeneralAntilles: well... not really. the problem is any legalization of any drug in any form leads to the laying off of many officers in law enforcement22:22
GeneralAntillesMacer, I'm not suggesting that as the motivation for the continued fighting of the drug war.22:22
Macerif the fed legalized marijuana tomorrow then over the next year thousands of dea, fbi, local, etc people would be laid off22:22
GeneralAntillesMacer, I'm saying that's what the effective result of their policies.22:22
Macerwhich politically makes it look like you chose druggies over good hard working law officers22:23
GeneralAntillesAnd local police and sheriff departments would get millions of dollars in reduced funding and equipment.22:23
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GeneralAntillesThey'd also lose the drug forfeiture gravy train.22:23
MacerGeneralAntilles: they can make up for it with their newfound marijuana tax heh22:23
GeneralAntillesMarijuana is only a part of the problem.22:23
MacerGeneralAntilles: but it is a huge one22:24
ZogG_laptopi think it's a key point22:24
MacerGeneralAntilles: if you lose marijuana being illegal. you lay off thousands of people in law enforcement22:24
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GeneralAntillesMacer, the mentality of legislating morality is at the core of the issue.22:24
Macerthe dea probably has a HUGE dept dedicated to only marijuana22:24
ZogG_laptopwhen it's not that harmful but if you legalize a lot of people wouldn't do it as it's legal and not tampting so much22:24
MacerGeneralAntilles: but alcohol and cigarettes are ok22:25
ZogG_laptopas well a lot wouldn't go futher to heavier things22:25
merlin1991ZogG_laptop: I don't know, it's here illegal aswell and we're not walking in potheads22:25
MacerGeneralAntilles: cigarettes are KNOWN to cause cancer.... KNOWN22:25
ZogG_laptoplike in netherland - they have less drug problems than countries where it's illegal22:25
Macerbut they have their tax revenue22:25
Macerif they prohibit cigarettes about 20 states will no longer function22:25
Macerif not more22:25
GeneralAntillesJust legalize everything.22:25
GeneralAntillesThe government has no business deciding what you do with your own body.22:26
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: some things can hamr others22:26
MacerGeneralAntilles: no.. even i agree that some drugs have a seriously major impact on the overall good of society22:26
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: for exanple someone on acid take knife and kill everyone22:26
GeneralAntillesMacer, the negative impact of the enforcement is a much BIGGER issue.22:26
GeneralAntillesThat which is seen and that which is unseen.22:26
Macerie: heroin, meth... that seriously messes people up and they eventually start to affect others22:26
GeneralAntillesEnforcing a cartel monopoly with tax dollars is messed up.22:27
MacerGeneralAntilles: no what is messed up is that the govts don't really want to go to war with the cartels ;)22:27
Macerif the govt really wanted to it could probably eliminate 90% of their crops and operations22:27
Macerin 1 day22:27
freemangordonGuys, Macer is trying to quit smoking, show some empathy :P22:27
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ZogG_laptopMacer: i quit smoking everyday =)22:28
ZogG_laptophow nice the dialog about domain got to this point22:28
Macerheh... i'll be doing pretty good later when i'm keeping $350/month from not smoking22:28
Macerthat's almost enough money to buy the cheapest Kia out there haha22:29
GeneralAntillesMacer, like I said, they're enforcing a cartel monopoly.22:29
MacerGeneralAntilles: the devil you know...22:29
GeneralAntillesAll drugs are demonstrably harmful22:29
GeneralAntillesIn one way or another.22:29
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: but on other side people are people and if it's not controled it can get it worser22:30
Macerso is all food ;)22:30
GeneralAntillesMacer, exactly.22:30
Maceri can't really think of much of anything that ISN'T harmful22:30
GeneralAntillesSo there's no really moral or philosophical consistency to deciding "This is legal, this isn't legal."22:30
GeneralAntillesJust legalize ALL OF IT.22:30
MacerBUT... some of the drugs are just way too far... meth for example22:30
Macerif you legalized meth what do you think would happen? :)22:30
GeneralAntillesIt'd be better than it is now.22:30
Macereverybody would be hanging out all happy go lucky22:30
Macerstaying up for days22:31
GeneralAntillesLook at alcohol usage during prohibition.22:31
GeneralAntillesPeople already use it22:31
GeneralAntillesIt's quite clear that prohibition doesn't really reduce the usage of hard drugs.22:31
Maceralcohol prohibition was awesome22:31
GeneralAntillesIt just makes their use more expensive and more dangerous.22:31
Macerbut back then the mob could go toe to toe with the govt22:31
GeneralAntillesMacer, and there were more alcohol poisonings and alcohol-related crime than there is now.22:31
Macernowadays i doubt if that would be possible22:31
GeneralAntillesProhibition just increases crime and the danger-factors involved with the prohibited substance22:32
Macerheh... well. it was still an awesome era22:32
GeneralAntillespeople will use it whether it's illegal or not.22:32
Macerif i could go back in time it would be during the 20s-30s22:32
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MacerGeneralAntilles: heh... yeah i suppose22:33
Macerbut that arguement could be similar to "Legalize murder... people will kill other people whether it is legal or not."22:33
Macerwhere do you draw the line? ;)22:33
Maceranyways.. i'm going to eat22:34
Macerthen go for a run22:34
Macerwith my lumia 900 ;) lol22:34
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Macertried with the N900 a couple days ago and i swear the thing would not lock on its gps22:34
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DocScrutinizerwe know Nokia is in free fall mode22:35
DocScrutinizernot that was good during last 18 months22:36
GeneralAntillesNo penicillin until the late 20s.22:36
GeneralAntillesNo thanks.22:36
DocScrutinizercould you please add nicks, so I at least know it's me or I have to ignore the partial convo or look up logs22:37
MacerDocScrutinizer: i had set up ;)22:37
Macerit still didn't lock22:37
Maceri gave up22:37
Macerdoes supl require gsm?22:37
DocScrutinizererr, sure22:37
DocScrutinizereven GPRS22:38
Maceri figured it could just downloa the data via wifi22:38
DocScrutinizerit's realtime22:38
DocScrutinizerwith ticks22:38
Macerwell that explains it then ;)22:38
Maceri had no sim in it22:38
DocScrutinizerother devices know how to download ephem for next 4 weeks. Seems Nokia GPS not22:39
freemangordonwell, it should lock in about 10-20 minutes22:39
freemangordonif you don't move22:39
Macerfreemangordon: lol. yeah i tried22:39
DocScrutinizerasl SpeedEvil though, he's the pope of GPS22:39
Maceri got fed up and just ordered an oversized arm band for my lumia 90022:40
Macerwhich locks in like... 5s ;)22:40
freemangordonsim card in it?22:40
Maceryeah heh22:40
DocScrutinizerit just pretends to lock22:40
M4rtinK2from my experience, even if you have sim, but have no roaming22:40
freemangordonany sighn of traffic going?22:40
M4rtinK2it is still very slow22:40
MacerDocScrutinizer: pretends?22:40
Macerit's pretty damn accurate ;)22:40
DocScrutinizeryeah, after 60s it is22:41
freemangordonyes, it takes some time to have a precise lock22:41
M4rtinK2if you have a clear view of the sky, it looks in a few minutes though22:41
DocScrutinizerbtw my N900 does exactly same22:41
M4rtinK2and then works as usual22:41
MacerDocScrutinizer: mine doesn't :-P22:41
freemangordonMacer: you tried it outdoors?22:41
Macerno sim tho22:41
Macerfreemangordon: yes22:41
freemangordonhmm, strange22:41
Maceri was out there in my PT gear wanting to run waiting for a lock22:42
Macerfor like 20-30 mins lol22:42
Macergave up and just got the lumia 90022:42
freemangordonPT gear?22:42
DocScrutinizerstarting 'Fahrplan' it takes less than me hitting next button "search" for the notifier "GPS now available"22:42
freemangordonis that a car?22:42
MacerPT gear.. uhm... workout clothes22:42
MacerPT = Physical Training22:43
Macergeez.. weren't any of you guys in the military?22:43
DocScrutinizerthe suit that walks you22:43
freemangordonwell, this is strange then22:43
freemangordonyeah, got it22:43
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freemangordonMacer: I was, sitting on the keyboard most of the time :P22:44
DocScrutinizermilitary? are you crazy? they got scared of me ;-P22:44
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: CF-29 Toughbook? :-D22:45
Maceri had the best time of my life in the USMC :)22:46
Macerother than getting shot at in iraq it was great22:46
Maceri feel bad for some of my friends.. they are actually getting cut22:46
MacerWOW... obama! change!!22:46
DocScrutinizerMacer: well, I guess you Americans need getting shot at to feel at home22:46
Macerhe's reducing the military heh22:46
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MacerDocScrutinizer: not all of us ;)22:46
Maceronly those of us from inner cities22:47
Maceralthough i suppose you have an occasional rural shoot out22:47
Macerespecially in texas22:47
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ping22:48
keriocleven doesn't correctly load the backported wifi drivers :(22:49
* freemangordon was thinking doc is on X-Fade's ignore list :P22:49
Maceri need a new scifi show to watch :-/22:49
DocScrutinizerdunno, I might try anyway22:49
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freemangordonMacer: marijuana legalized? you know that scifi show?22:50
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* DocScrutinizer feels like getting a beer on the health of x-fade22:58
keriowill a microusb-M-to-usb-F adapter from a N8 fit in the N900?22:59
keriowhat do i need for host mode?22:59
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DocScrutinizera filed down microusb-M-to-usb-F adapter from a N822:59
keriowhat do i have to file down?23:00
DocScrutinizeror s simple CA-157 cable and a F-F adapter23:00
keriopics or it didn't happen23:00
qwazix_900jpinx: little late but try #99# or *99# in wvdial23:00
qwazix_900kerio: try a usbhost cable from a galaxy s223:01
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qwazix_900it fits (i haven't made sure it works thoug)23:01
DocScrutinizerdoesn't that also have a micro-A plug?23:01
qwazix_900no, strangely, micro-B23:02
DocScrutinizercya l8r23:02
qwazix_900got one for the Gnote23:02
* DocScrutinizer heads out to get drunk and forget about Nokia23:03
keriohm, there's no reaver package in the repos23:03
keriowhy is that?23:03
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kerioDocScrutinizer: link pls23:09
kerioalso, does anyone know how to get the missing gpg key my apt complains about?23:10
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keriovi__: are you around?23:14
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keriowhat the hell is "Ignoring Provides line with DepCompareOp for package binutils"?23:19
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keriohmm, why shouldn't one use the "bleeding edge" wifi drivers?23:31
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