IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-06-11

freemangordonNFC how it updates is blacklist00:00
freemangordongoing to reinstall ABD00:00
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freemangordonno android crap here :P00:01
DocScrutinizer05so we're still talking about AddBlock+?00:02
Sc0rpiusI can't even type00:02
freemangordonapt-get install --reinstall adblock-plus-1.0 does the job00:02
freemangordonSc0rpius: could you rty it?00:03
DocScrutinizer05and I assume ADP and ADB and ABD are all synonyms for AddBlock+?00:03
freemangordontwas a typo00:03
freemangordonADB i mean00:03
freemangordonand yes, we're talking about AddBlock+00:03
Sc0rpiusI could try, but it'll update patterns.ini anyway00:04
freemangordonSc0rpius: how?00:04
freemangordonwhere you will get them from?00:05
DocScrutinizer05I'd like to believe it's been Java/JRE here, in konqueror00:05
DocScrutinizer05or this friggin flash11-plugin?00:05
Sc0rpiusit automatically does it, if you see where your patterns.ini is, you'll see different backups from different versions every time it updated itself00:05
Sc0rpiusand it seems to be once a day00:05
freemangordonSc0rpius: but it won't help then, tomorrow my microb will be screwed up again00:06
Sc0rpiusunless we figure out how to disable that00:06
Sc0rpiuswhich I believe you can00:06
freemangordonlets again ask google :)00:07
Sc0rpiusthere's a Preferences button for Adblock00:07
freemangordonyeah, opens another not very useful window00:08
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freemangordonSc0rpius: that option is added in last ADP version (2.03) which is not available for microb00:12
freemangordon(disable automatic updates)00:12
Sc0rpiusthen I'm not using Adblock Plus.  Anyway I don't visit websites with too much ads using the N90000:13
Sc0rpiusI need it to be fast more than to be clean00:13
vi_FWIW noscript works on microb.00:13
freemangordonyeah :S00:13
Sc0rpiussince I can't have both :(00:13
freemangordonvi_: what is that?00:14
robbiethe1stI use the flash "clickToRun" thing00:14
vi_You could also use a small hosts adblock without ABP overheads.00:14
robbiethe1stworks /excellently/ for keeping MicroB fast.00:14
vi_robbiethe1st: I use that too.00:14
Sc0rpiusyou mean settings to in /etc/hosts to ads sites?00:14
vi_freemangordon: noscript disables ALL scripting of all everykind except on pages you whhitelist.00:14
vi_Helps keep things snappy.00:15
freemangordonit is in repos?00:15
vi_No, you have to go 'find it' from the firefox plugins web page.00:15
freemangordonaah, ok00:15
vi_And yes ABP is a massive hog.00:16
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freemangordonvi_: 10x00:19
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freemangordonhmm, installed ABP 1.3.10 from mozzula website, so far everything is snappy00:26
freemangordonunfortunately does not seem to work00:28
vi_did you killall browserd?00:28
freemangordonit is listed as plugin on addons page00:28
freemangordonlet me restart the device00:28
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vi_your uptime!00:29
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freemangordondon't care00:29
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freemangordonhmm, seems to work after the restart00:31
freemangordonSc0rpius: seems ABP updates every 5 days00:32
Sc0rpiusit sucks.00:32
freemangordondon;t see any speed difference between 1.02 and 1.3.10 though00:33
freemangordontakes 10 seconds until TMO starts to download :(00:34
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freemangordonbut that is only for the first site, after that everything is snappy00:34
vi_and you were wondering who ate your ram?00:35
freemangordonyeah :D00:35
freemangordonbut 1.3.10 seems much better than 1.02, lets see how it will be after blacklist update00:39
vi_you could perhaps configure it to use the fanboy super light weight block list as oppose to easy ist?00:40
vi_That might yield a speed inprovment.00:40
freemangordonyeah, if the full list slows it again i will google for some light list00:41
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vi_fanboy is your man00:41
vi_Fucking Rockoil SVI.00:43
vi_Their 5wt is as heavy as amsol 10wt.00:43
vi_Their 2.5wt is piss.00:43
ThreeMSc0rpius so big thx for yappari. now my friends cannot anoy me anymore why im not using whatsapp ;)00:43
vi_Why are you using whatsapp?00:44
vi_What about the 1 year cost?00:44
Sc0rpiusThreeM, thanks to you for testing it out :)00:45
ThreeMcause im forced by my friends :/00:45
ThreeMdont answr to sms anymore and such00:45
Sc0rpiusafter a year we either pay or.... (I'll leave it as a surprise in a year)00:45
Sc0rpiusbu there's a "way"00:45
ThreeMyappari works good so long, and dont drain battery. chat works. thats all i expected :)00:46
ThreeMafter i edit the yappari.conf and add cc+phonenumer to the phonenumer field00:47
wmaroneyappari? :> nice name00:48
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Sc0rpiusthat's a bug some people have.  It's fixed in the current release00:49
Sc0rpiuswell if you speak japanese00:49
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Sc0rpiuswhen you (used to ) ask a Japanese: "there's no Whatsapp for N900" (in japanese of course)00:49
Sc0rpiushe would say "yappari..." as "I knew it"00:49
Sc0rpiusand since it has "app" in between00:50
Sc0rpiusit makes a funny pun for the japanese00:50
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DocScrutinizer05whatsapp, the hugest scam of the last 5 years00:56
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nox-hm they charge for jabber?  or whats the thing?00:57
DocScrutinizer05a few years ago it's been the skype hype, not whatsapp00:58
DocScrutinizer05nox-: that's what I understood it is00:59
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nox-oh well...00:59
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DocScrutinizer05another service offering for free what's been around for free since years but not been marketed that agressively, and skimming the user data and eventually throw in "added value" the user has to pay for01:00
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Sc0rpiusWhatsapp actually already have all the contact information of the planet01:04
Sc0rpiusincluding yours01:04
Sc0rpiusyou just need to be in the address book of somebody who uses Whatsapp, that's all.01:04
Sc0rpiusand I'm way too sure that you are in several of those .P01:04
DocScrutinizer05me? definitely not01:04
Sc0rpiusyou must have a friend who uses Whatsapp01:04
Sc0rpiusyou just don't know01:05
DocScrutinizer05no such "friends" here01:05
Sc0rpiusthe whole address book of anybody who uses Whatsapp is uploaded01:05
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robbiethe1stFriend? what's that?01:05
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: could not prevent friends of using it01:07
chem|stfrom using it..01:07
chem|stnox-: they even have a "second" app for doing calls01:08
chem|stnox-: sry, they SELL a 2nd app... for doing calls^^01:09
nox-oh well...01:09
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Estel_freemangordon,  afaik adblock plus pattern list is optional01:10
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: nothing to laugh about! sad story bro'01:10
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DocScrutinizer05not particularly new a story though01:10
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Estel_i.e. it works by having patterns for most popular adds - for sake of installing and running out of the box01:10
Estel_last time I've tried addblockplus it was possible to disable auto list...01:11
Estel_and rely on Your own patterns01:11
Estel_i.e. You see add -> You add it to list -> You don't see it again on that site01:12
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: we had ICQ skype msn aolm and tons of other shit ppl all over the world use for some reason... all do the same... eat your soul01:12
Estel_patterns try to block adds for whole world, they have to be ram hogs :P01:12
Estel_vi_,  freemangordon, how are You installing mozilla addonds for microB from out of repos?01:13
Estel_is it possible to install some old versions, or what?01:13
DocScrutinizer05army of losers, yeah, a particularly nice one01:13
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DocScrutinizer05the average stupid is just too greedy to notice the ever same pattern, even after falling for it for the 10th or 20th time01:14
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: it is a shame... also blocking foreign servers is the new style... looking at all those jabber servers restricting to "the one and only service you may use"01:15
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: I just say SchuFa and Facebook - ROTFL01:15
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DocScrutinizer05every idiot and his dog are in FB, but when a credit profiling company announces they gonna read the FB data, it's national shock and awe01:17
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: adding the CIA terrorist words-list to it and you may get a pretty fsckd database of people worth credit for weapons...01:17
freemangordonEstel_: go to and pick your one01:17
DocScrutinizer05you really think they will stop doing that just because you whine "that's evil!"01:17
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DocScrutinizer05actually they already are harvesting your data off FB since very beginning01:18
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: sure that is why I get afghan commercial banners all over the place, working place "afghan logistics and tours kabul" ever since :)01:19
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chem|steven my mom asked me to change it as she feared her swiss fb-friends to ask stupid questions^^01:21
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Estel_freemangordon,  and it's supposed to work?!01:29
Estel_if yes, my yaw is going to drop and make big hole to the earth center01:30
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Estel_I always though our UI is incompatible01:31
Estel_(microB UI)01:31
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Estel_freemangordon,  vi_, call me stupid, but I haven't had idea, that we're able to flawlessly install addons for microB...01:38
freemangordonEstel_, at least ABP 1.3.10 works (though there is no "block" tab on flash animations)01:38
Estel_I see01:38
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Sc0rpiuswe can't, at least not flawlessly01:38
Sc0rpiusthere's always some kind of hack involved01:38
Sc0rpiusat least in my experience maybe nowadays is more n00b proof dunno01:38
Estel_well, installed flagfox for test (small thing that show flag near address, to indicate country where server is, + show IP address on demand)01:38
Estel_and obviously, as it relies on UI, it doesn't seem to work01:39
Estel_although, probably, backend thing does01:39
Estel_if i can find working spellcheckedr with switchable languages, I'm in heaven01:39
Estel_freemangordon,  restarting after installation01:42
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Estel_only microB closing and opening, or killall browser needed?01:43
Estel_or browserd?01:43
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Estel_sorry for pestering You with questions01:43
Estel_it's just shock to me that we can try addons like that in microB01:43
freemangordonkillall browserd01:45
freemangordonkillall browser01:45
* Estel_ nods01:46
Estel_if lazarus form recovery and spellchecking are gonna work, I'm going officialy orgasmic01:46
Estel_what do I need chromium for, then?01:46
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luke-jrwhy does Gitorious's wiki markup suck?01:48
luke-jrEstel_: how's it look so far? :P
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Estel_luke-jr,  much better than before ;)01:52
Estel_btw, small info - kernel power support ext4 for ages, so info about it being limited to ext3 is wrong01:53
RST38hHehe, since Nokia started upgrading Symbian Belle with Microsoft shit, the OS has become less stable01:54
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Estel_luke-jr,  also, You have typo in wifi section - "start GPRS interface"01:55
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Estel_overall, good beginning, I like it. Care to move it to Maemo wiki too?01:55
luke-jrEstel_: what's the typo? O.o01:55
Estel_oh, was it on purpose?01:55
luke-jrwhat on purpose? O.o01:56
Estel_I mean, start GPRS interface to run WiFi?01:56
luke-jrthanks :P01:56
Estel_np :P01:56
luke-jrMaemo Wiki would probably make it easier (Gitorious markdown sucks), but does it really fit there?01:56
Estel_see few lines ago, kernel-power reads ext4 without problems01:56
Estel_of course01:56
Estel_it fit there as hell01:56
luke-jrEstel_: it reads/writes ext4 without a journal?01:57
Estel_if ubuntu 12.04 fit there, why not gentoo01:57
Estel_yea, it reads/write like desktop01:57
luke-jrEstel_: I thought it was too old for that, unless someone backported it o.o01:57
Estel_afaik yes01:57
Estel_kernel-power isn't 2.6.28 at all, in reality01:58
Estel_considering all backports01:58
Estel_btw hope Your subpage "modern kernel" is going to be full of magic too :P01:58
luke-jrI'm not sure Gentoo's power kernel is completely up to date either - I think they've been doing a lot this year?01:58
Estel_of course01:58
luke-jrto write "Modern kernel", I'm going to have to start over with 3.4 or 3.5 :|01:59
Estel_to take it serious, You should maintain proper gentoo branch of KP01:59
Estel_unless You want to have PITA applying all gentoo changes to kp5001:59
luke-jrnot really anything special needed for Gentoo01:59
Estel_and every next version02:00
Estel_I see.02:00
luke-jrgentoo's kernel is really just bugfixes02:00
luke-jrit would be pretty awesome if I could get Maemo running inside LXC though02:00
Estel_are You sure that those bugfixes were't included in KP separately? ;)02:00
luke-jrEstel_: they are, which is why I don't see a point to any KP fork :p02:01
luke-jr(and if I find any that aren't, it makes sense to put them to main KP too)02:01
Estel_so for gentoo on N900, You may just use straight upstream kp50 flawlessly?02:01
luke-jrusing KP 49 right now02:01
luke-jronly gotcha is, Gentoo needs it built with GCC 4.502:02
Sc0rpiusI wonder if anyone knows here how to close the virtual keyboard in Qt or even GLIB works02:02
luke-jrto build kernel modules against it02:02
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Estel_luke-jr,  why not GCC 4.6.2 like in Maemo?02:02
luke-jrEstel_: it's not in Gentoo stable yet02:02
Estel_I see02:02
luke-jrwhen it gets promoted to Gentoo/ARM stable, it'll automatically work for N900 pretty much02:03
Estel_damn, why microB text fields doesn't have right-click context menu02:03
luke-jr(also, Gentoo is hardfp - not sure if that will affect kernel module linking or not)02:03
Estel_I can right click on address bar and got nice context menu...02:04
Estel_but on pages, it works onlhy for non-text02:04
Estel_and text context menu is where lazarus form recovery live :(02:04
Estel_luke-jr,  no idea02:04
Estel_and what about thumb?02:04
luke-jrlast I heard, N900's CPU is broken for thumb?02:05
Estel_thumb2, precisely02:05
Estel_last You've said that, I fixed You already :P02:05
Estel_freemangordon fixed it.02:05
luke-jryeah, but CPUs don't fix themselves usually :p02:05
freemangordonaaah, not again02:05
Estel_freemangordon is like chuck norris02:05
luke-jrso it wasn't really broken?02:06
Estel_he fixed every N900? cpu in universe02:06
freemangordonit was02:06
Estel_seriously though02:06
freemangordonthe errata is for real02:06
Estel_he found proper way to include errata fix02:06
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Estel_luke-jr,  use the force. It makes - thumb, not force - Your executables smaller in ram02:07
Estel_consider that for gentoo in N90002:07
luke-jryes, that would be handy :P02:07
freemangordonluke-jr: you can see thumb2 errata fix in action here:
freemangordon(Ubuntu 12.04 is thumb2 hardfp)02:08
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Estel_now most important question02:12
Estel_any benefits from using Geento thumb2 hardfp over Ubuntu 12.04 with LXDE - or, other way around?02:12
Estel_...except for fact, that ubuntu was documented from very beginning, and, as a result, dozen of people are working on it, instead 1 person? :P02:13
Estel_(while it was also started by 1 person)02:13
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Estel_no spell checker and no lazarus for microB, due to lack of right-clickable text fields :( No orgasm here02:14
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HurrianEstel_, why not ubuntu-minimal then install lxde?02:21
Hurrianubuntu-desktop seems to pull in a crapload of extra stuff02:22
Estel_sounds reasonable. I'm newbie in all those things, so I rely on documentation02:22
Estel_those things = desktop OS'es on N900 without chroot02:22
Estel_what interest me is performance, hardware compatibility etc02:22
Estel_I don't even know why ubuntu, instead of minimal debian, for example02:23
Estel_or archlinux or whatever02:23
Estel_archlinux probably because got less packages etc, but why ubuntu with it's unity "glory", instead of good old debian?02:23
FIQ|n900archlinux-arm works on n90002:24
HurrianEstel_, arch would be nice too, packaging any new packages is definitely not a problem ;)02:24
Estel_if it works - quite good - on 16 MB RAM 200 mhz CPU router wrt54gl, it should in our case too ;)02:24
Estel_FIQ|n900,  yea, heard that02:25
Estel_although I'm loss in all those hardware/kernel compatibility02:25
HurrianEstel_, i'm pretty sure you're referring to embedded distros02:25
Hurriani'd be hard pressed to build a full glibc userland in 16mb02:25
Estel_Hurrian,  no, base debian (without desktop enviroment) works on wrt54gl02:25
Estel_np idea honestly, as it's art for at itself, so I'm using openwrt there :P02:26
Estel_still, why ubuntu on N900, not debian?02:27
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HurrianEstel_, no idea02:27
Estel_and why specifically Ubuntu 12.04?02:27
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Estel_same here02:27
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Hurriancd device/nokia/n90002:28
Hurrianwhoops, wrong window02:28
freemangordonany CSS guru here?02:28
luke-jrEstel_: the same reasons to use Gentoo over Ubuntu normally? :p02:29
Hurrianfreemangordon, need help with your new site?02:29
freemangordonadblockplus changed behaviour to show "block" tab only when hovered over the element in v1.102:29
luke-jrEstel_: such as being able to build everything customized to the hardware02:29
Estel_luke-jr,  maybe, but ubuntu is using some special 2.6.37 version of kernel02:29
luke-jrEstel_: no reason we can't use it with Gentoo :p02:30
luke-jr2.6.37 is pretty old already tho02:30
Hurrianfreemangordon, I just disable that function, even on desktop abp02:30
Estel_freemangordon,  what it's about this 2.6.37 so special?02:30
freemangordonHurrian: want to revert that02:30
Hurrianlemme look into it.02:30
freemangordonHurrian: how? I want "block" button always visible02:30
Hurrianany idea where the code may be?02:30
freemangordonseems like objtabs.css02:31
freemangordonHurrian: if you gonna look at it, then look version 1.3.1002:31
freemangordonthat is the last version supporting microb02:32
Hurrianfreemangordon, something like hidebutton:hover{ opacity = 1.0 };02:32
freemangordonlet me check02:32
freemangordona.%%CLASSNAME%%:hover {02:32
freemangordonopacity: 0.8 !important;02:32
freemangordonthat is working version02:32
Hurrianmove it to a.%%CLASSNAME%%{opacity: 0.8 !important;}02:33
Hurrianthat way, you disable need to hover over it02:33
freemangordonok, let me try02:33
DocScrutinizer51so what's up, hackers?02:34
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Estel_freemangordon,  be sure to release Your work if it works02:38
Estel_addblockplus is actually in repos02:39
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Estel_well, noscript, actually, works, it's blocking scripts... Althouh, it's information tabs and config buttons are nowhere to be found, so no way for allowing temporaly02:50
Estel_(in microB)02:50
Estel_pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that02:51
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LaoLang_coolIs there a way to copy an event in calendar?02:55
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DocScrutinizer05LaoLang_cool: wouldn't know of any trivial method03:39
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, ok...03:40
Estel_pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that I've 58 MB free on rootfs...03:44
Estel_And I wonder wht could I move *to* rootfs, for sake of increasing performance03:45
Estel_any ideas what sits in opt usually, and would benefit from NAND speeds? (i.e. isn't executable, that sits in RAM anyway)03:45
HurrianEstel_, xorg?03:46
Estel_isn't there already?03:46
Estel_btw, xorg sits in RAM anyway, yep?03:47
Hurrianhmm, something slow, that gets unloaded a lot03:47
Hurrianthe settings app?03:47
Estel_sounds reasonable03:47
Estel_now must locate, where it live ;)03:48
Estel_no core system components, I suppose...03:48
Estel_maybe something from easy debian? :P03:48
Hurriandpkg -L (name of settings app)03:49
* Estel_ nods03:49
Hurrianalso, Estel_, have you seen the new overclocking and kernel-power pages?03:49
Estel_now need to determine name of settings app03:49
Estel_overlocking yes, kp not yet03:49
Estel_will check with pleasure03:49
LaoLang_coolIs there a way to export only one event?03:50
Estel_Hurrian,  You were the one who wasn't able to get high speeds of chromium in easy debian?03:54
HurrianEstel_, it wasn't me03:54
HurrianI don't use chromium in the first place03:54
* Estel_ nods03:54
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Hurrianfreemangordon, are you still here?03:58
* Hurrian is curious as to why Maemo on MMC won't work with power management enabled03:58
Sc0rpiuswow at last04:01
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Sc0rpiusI could finally code to close the virtual keyboard04:02
Sc0rpiuswhen you press enter on it04:02
Sc0rpiusthat was HARD04:02
Sc0rpiusit took me a whole day!04:02
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Estel_hm, strange - chromium is actualy faster, when run from within lxde, that Maemo (both easy debian one)04:12
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Estel_not to mention, that context menu works even in fullscreen, when run from lxde04:13
Estel_the latter was known fact - as for first, I always though it's placebo, as it seemed to me, that running without middle-man will be faster04:13
Estel_although, apprently, it isn't - from within lxde it' really blazing fast04:14
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luke-jrEstel_: re LXDE vs Maemo Chromium speed: I bet it's the swap04:23
luke-jrEstel_: Maemo uses a LOT of memory, even compared to KDE04:23
DocScrutinizer05luke-jr: maemo? I'd say dialer and browserd and whatnot are using a lot of RAM, due to preload and lock against swapout04:29
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer05: part of Maemo04:30
SpeedEvilA phone without dialer locked in RAM...04:30
HurrianSpeedEvil, "internet tablet"04:31
Hurrianpretty big oversight by nokia though04:31
DocScrutinizer51Hurrian: ?? what is an oversight?04:32
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HurrianDocScrutinizer, not locking the phone app in RAM04:34
DocScrutinizer51damn, it IS04:34
Hurrian31820 rtcom-call-ui04:35
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Hurrianoh, I guess it is04:35
SpeedEvil(the architechure requiring the CPU to be involved in calls, and other things are questionable too, of course04:36
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DocScrutinizer51you'll always need CPU involved into handling call establishing04:37
SpeedEvilBut audio processing in a call, is arguable.04:38
* SpeedEvil hates random sones from one of the 8 gadgets.04:38
DocScrutinizer51the AP-centric audio concept is highly questionable04:38
jacekowskiyou need something to decompress it04:38
SpeedEviljacekowski: the phone CPU does not do decompression.04:39
SpeedEvilIt basically just hands off audio packets to the phone04:39
jacekowskiwell, how else would you then change destination of audio04:39
jacekowskiit's nice thing to have all go into one chip04:39
jacekowskiand then go out of it04:39
jacekowskiexcept it should have been done in alsa directly04:40
jacekowskiwithout pulsecrap04:40
DocScrutinizer51if the one chip was the mixer, I'd agree04:40
jacekowskion n900, you have to send phone calls at least 4 different ways, BT, headphones, earpiece and main speakers04:42
jacekowski+ possibly FMTX04:42
DocScrutinizer51well, that's what mixer/codec is for04:42
jacekowskithing is, you have AP that can do the job04:43
DocScrutinizer51usually no need to pipe it thru CPU04:43
jacekowskiand without PA it could do it easily04:43
jacekowskieven at highest load04:43
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jacekowskiso there is no point in adding additional electronics if you have everything you need04:43
jacekowskiit's more of an implementaion problem than design04:44
DocScrutinizer51you already have a mixer/codec04:44
jacekowskivery limited one04:44
jacekowskii'm going to sleep04:45
jacekowskigood night04:45
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ds3anyone still looking into a compass for the N900?07:35
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DocScrutinizer05ds3: honestly I'm afraid there are too many magnets in N90008:56
ds3DocScrutinizer05: hmmmm... I was looking at a little plugin module on the outside08:56
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DocScrutinizer05place a paperclip near the N900 and see for yourself08:57
ds3I can get a magnetometer around it to measure it08:57
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ds3but I suspect if the chip has a large enough dynamic range, that can be calibrated out08:58
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DocScrutinizer05for some of the magnets you can calibrate out the offset if the magnetometer chip has sufficient dynamic range08:59
doc|homek273: someone should hit them up for a repo08:59
ds3there is a project out there about using the audio jack to interface sensors08:59
DocScrutinizer05for some you can't, like kbd slide, probably vibrator motor, stand magnet08:59
ds3so a tiny little nub sticking out of the audio jack might be one way08:59
k273hi doc|home, this is DocScrutinizer05 from home, right?09:00
k273or no?09:00
doc|homek273: nope, different one09:00
ds3DocScrutinizer05: let's say that can be made to work, is there anyone else interested in having a compass?09:00
DocScrutinizer05I'd bet there are09:01
k273I am interested, but doubt will use it that often,09:01
ds3a compass would let you have a fixed orientation09:01
DocScrutinizer05sensor at AV plug has a hard time getting powered09:01
ds3much rather do things Linux style instead of the Android hack09:01
ds3there is a design out there that can get about 5mW09:02
ds35mW can run some mag sensors09:02
DocScrutinizer05hmm, possible09:02
ds3was reading a paper where someone had a full setup09:02
ds3Left channel for power, Right channel for data in, Mic for data out (relative to the sensor)09:02
ds3for a mag, pull power from left and right together and double the power09:03
DocScrutinizer05I'd rather use USB09:04
DocScrutinizer05WAAAAY cleaner design09:05
ds3but USB is much more complex09:05
ds3and you need the host mode hacks09:05
ds3and you loose the ability to charge09:05
ds3to be really useful, the mag needs its ownaccelerometer09:06
DocScrutinizer051) no. 2) correct. 3) well, depends09:06
ds3you got a 1 chip solution for SPI or I2C to USB?09:06
ds3most 1 chip sol'n are for UART09:06
DocScrutinizer05several, iirc09:06
ds3Oh? who?09:06
ds3who makes one I mean09:07
DocScrutinizer05you can bitbang I2C via FTDI chip, and that's a solution I see while not yet awake09:07
ds3still remember battery life issues with host mode though...has that been solved?09:08
DocScrutinizer05battery life issues quite likely are system immanent: 200mA@5V09:09
DocScrutinizer05if your plug doesn't use those, they won't drain battery09:09
ds3right now with my original battery, I am barely getting 4-5hours on 3G :(09:10
DocScrutinizer05USB controller on SoC though is also a bit of a energy hog09:10
ds3maybe it is what the code did, I remember having rapid battery drain after just trying host mode. a reboot seems to fix that09:10
ds3similar to what I saw on the N80009:11
DocScrutinizer05:shrug: 5h on 3G sounds about right09:11
ds3I used to see almost 8h when it was brand new09:11
DocScrutinizer05depend on data volume09:11
DocScrutinizer05dist to BTS09:12
ds3this is idle just checking email, didn't think that changed much09:12
ds3does 3G vs 3.5G make a difference?09:12
DocScrutinizer05you never know for sure about inbound data09:12
ds3I see09:12
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ds3the other argument for the audio jack is, might be able to get some interest from non N900 folks09:14
DocScrutinizer05sure thing09:14
ds3think host mode is still rare09:14
ds3and I donno of anyone selling solder on USB micro connectors09:15
ds3solder on male ones that is09:15
DocScrutinizer05most nifty design however was the magmeter-uSD09:15
DocScrutinizer05well, I got two builds here09:15
ds3builds of?09:16
DocScrutinizer05one was sold to me though with comment "last one"09:16
DocScrutinizer05USB plugs09:16
ds3and that one solders onto a PCB?09:16
DocScrutinizer05you'd need to come up with a non-standard design09:17
DocScrutinizer05seems easy09:17
ds3it'd involve gluing09:17
DocScrutinizer05solder it09:17
ds3the ones I have seen are not amendable to soldering09:17
ds3there is a sheild blocking it09:17
DocScrutinizer05solder the shield, connect by wire09:18
ds3Ohhhh like that09:18
ds3but that'd require a pass through to handle power/charging, right?09:19
DocScrutinizer05hmm, unless you build in a barrel connector or 2nd USB female for charger...09:19
ds3hmmm that could work09:20
ds3the charging current would be a nasty H field to calibrate out though09:20
DocScrutinizer05I see another argument for AV: it's more sturdy, at least on N90009:20
ds3the AV jack route looks idiot proof for prototyping... build it, check to see if there is power...then the rest is a MSP430 talking to a SPI or I2C bus09:21
DocScrutinizer05(field) not if you run VBUS and GND in parallel and close to each other09:21
ds3I donno if htat is enough, saw 'issues' on another design relating to it09:21
DocScrutinizer05I'm rather sure the N900 itself will give you more (field) trouble09:22
ds3more reason to figure a way of quicky rigging something up to test that09:23
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ds3has anyone attempted the uSD mag design yet?09:23
DocScrutinizer05mini toy compass ? ;-D09:23
ds3no, with real mag chips09:23
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I think SpeedEvil looked into it09:23
ds3got access to a few PhDs that can help with the calibration issues09:24
ds3so that part I can get help on09:24
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DocScrutinizer05as long as the fields are static and don't saturate the sensor, it's no real issue09:24
ds3even opening a keyboard can be handled09:25
DocScrutinizer05I have concerns against both preconditions09:25
ds3it is 'static' in a way09:25
ds3I doubt the magnets on there are more then 1-2G if even that09:25
ds3there are common mags out there that can handle 8-16G's of dynamic range09:26
DocScrutinizer05vib motor might be a bitch09:26
ds3true...where is it physically?09:27
DocScrutinizer05luckily vib is next to power button09:27
ds3so we got stuff to the 3rd power working for us there09:27
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ds3what kind of update rate on the mag is reasonable?09:28
ds310Hz? 50Hz? 100Hz?09:29
DocScrutinizer05depends I'd say09:29
DocScrutinizer05usually 10Hz should be more than enough, no?09:29
ds3I have seen devices with updates as slow as 3Hz09:29
ds3so I just donno09:30
DocScrutinizer05if you wanna use it for Wii-like controller, you want 50..10009:30
ds3the problem is the faster it goes, the more power is needed09:31
ds3each measurement is about 12bytes09:31
ds3the paper for the AV interface suggests a 300bps interface09:32
DocScrutinizer05I know those from N909:32
DocScrutinizer05LOL WUT?09:32
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ds3it is doing a modem with a MSP43009:33
ds3and running on like 5mW09:33
DocScrutinizer05I'd run RLL or MFM encoding straight away, via those audio lines09:33
DocScrutinizer05should at least be worth 9.6k09:34
DocScrutinizer05probably 19k09:34
DocScrutinizer05maybe more09:34
ds3donno if enough CPUpower is available09:34
DocScrutinizer05unless you run that msp430 at 32k clock09:35
ds3how are you thinking of generating the MFM signals?09:35
ds3through the ADC block or?09:35
DocScrutinizer05on N900 side? sure09:35
ds3no, on the MSP430 side09:36
ds3the N900 is pretty easy...lots of CPU there09:36
DocScrutinizer05nah, plain GPIO09:36
ds3got a library? signal processing is not my strong suit09:36
ds3I can get the HW going and do ports but.....09:36
ds3I am still looking for a simple way of doing FSK decoding :D09:37
DocScrutinizer05FSK decoding way more complex than straight RLL decoding09:37
ds3doesn't direct RLL require DC coupling?09:38
DocScrutinizer05that's the point of RLL09:38
DocScrutinizer05wiki Run Length Limited09:38
DocScrutinizer05~wiki Run Length Limited09:38
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Run length limited' or 'RLL' coding is a line coding technique that is used to send arbitrary data over a communications channel with bandwidth limits. This is used in both telecommunication and storage systems which move a medium past a fixed recording head. Specifically, RLL bounds the length of stretches (runs) of repeated bits during which the signal does not change. If ...09:38
DocScrutinizer05the last sentence says it all09:39
ds3I looked at that09:39
ds3and I don't see a lower bound on what frequency the channel must pass09:39
ds3the usage of the term 'DC' is a mistake on my part09:39
DocScrutinizer05the max run length09:39
ds3thinking of something like audio systems might high pass some at some frequency09:40
ds3Oh you mean use the max lenght of the 0's or 1's as a limiter on the min. freq?09:40
DocScrutinizer05I think usually max RL is ~5 bits09:40
ds3hmm seems complicated09:41
ds3wouldn't know how to pick that out of a stream sampled by ALSA09:41
DocScrutinizer05you don't use any limiter09:41
DocScrutinizer05you get a square wave shaped signal and you detect edges09:42
DocScrutinizer05simple as that09:42
ds3yes but I don't see a square wave. I see a sampled version of that through ALSA. one that might be filtered and shaped by the audio circuit09:42
ds3this is driving the mic signal09:43
ds3or do you have another way for the N900 to see that?09:43
Sc0rpiustmo down with Database error?09:43
DocScrutinizer05no, you'll have to go the hard way and inspect your .wav for FF and 00 values09:43
DocScrutinizer05or rather >a0 and <3009:43
DocScrutinizer05or, for s16le, for positive and negative09:45
ds3well... if I can get it work w/the stock 300bps modem, I'll pester you on how to get RLL going :D09:45
ds3it is all sw at that point09:45
DocScrutinizer05modem is WAAAY harder09:45
ds3yes, but the folks who did it wrote the code09:45
ds3I know how to port, I am not an expert at signal processing09:46
DocScrutinizer05see this app called, err.... magreader09:46
DocScrutinizer05all you need already in place ;-P09:46
DocScrutinizer05incl AV09:46
ds3oh okay09:46
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DocScrutinizer05you will be capable of creating a signal at least as stable and exact in timing and shape as that produced by a magnet head when you pull a credit card - will you?09:47
ds3is a CC strip considered to be MFM or RLL?09:48
DocScrutinizer05technicall I guess it's lilke MFM, roughly09:48
ds3I've done mag strip stuff so I understand that :D09:48
ds3MFM and RLL are to me hard drive encodings09:49
DocScrutinizer05sure, they were mainly used for that09:49
DocScrutinizer05but a HDD is also a mag medium pulled under a magsensor head09:49
ds3good point... lost sight of those ancient drives09:50
DocScrutinizer05and that's why they used MFM or RLL09:50
DocScrutinizer05as a coil in magnet head needs flux change09:50
DocScrutinizer05to create signal09:50
DocScrutinizer05imanently DC averse09:50
ds3i remember that from mag strips... write HC11 code to decode them before09:51
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DocScrutinizer512% of net income! Plus acknowledgements  ;-P09:56
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phrykHow can I read out a wpa key my n900 device has saved?12:08
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DocScrutinizer51stored in gconf12:13
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DocScrutinizer51I posted a mini-howto to tmo long ago12:13
phrykIf you mean, that's apparently down.12:14
phrykBut I guess I can do it with 'gconftool' ?12:15
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DocScrutinizer51gconftool -R   /system/osso/connectivity/IAP12:17
DocScrutinizer51gconftool -R   /|grep EAP_wpa_preshared_passphrase12:19
chem|stphryk: ^^12:20
DocScrutinizer51o/ chem|st12:20
chem|stmoo doc12:20
chem|stfreemangordon: you settled your CSS issue?12:21
DocScrutinizer51tmo down? Ha!12:21
chem|stdatabase issues afaik12:21
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phrykAh gimme a sec12:22
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phrykAh that works, thanks a bunch.12:26
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: yeah server is back up but the db is still borked12:36
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vi_TMO is down?12:44
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merlin1991borked db12:45
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MohammadAGDoes reggie know?13:17
petterimaybe it had this faulty mysql and someone stole our password hashes!13:20
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SpeedEvilds3: calibration is near-trivial13:42
SpeedEvilds3: problem is thickness13:42
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SpeedEvilYou're basically looking at having to wirebond bare dies, or perhaps get away with sanding down existing magnetometer chips13:43
MohammadAGTmo back!!13:43
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vi_TMO back down!13:49
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DocScrutinizer05petteri: please elaborate. What's up with mysql?13:53
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: petteri: many thanks14:03
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jacekowskiit's not mysql problem14:19
jacekowskiit's libc and inconsistent documentation problem14:19
jacekowskisome man pages say it returns a char14:20
jacekowskisome say it returns int14:20
jacekowskiand in reality it's absolutely random14:20
jacekowskiand for example on my system it returns -1,0,1 and only those 314:20
jacekowskiit's not returning difference between those string14:20
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jacekowskiOS community did really good job writing confusing documentation14:21
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DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: man memcpy, why would anybody care for the actual value, instead of just checking ==0 ?14:30
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: they do14:31
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: except they check for (char)memcpy(...)==014:31
DocScrutinizer05so they do a cast to int8?14:31
jacekowskibut according to man it's supposed to return char14:31
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petterion ubuntu it says int14:32
DocScrutinizer05int memcmp(const void *s1, const void *s2, size_t n);14:32
jacekowskiyeah, but read the description14:33
jacekowskiit says it's comparing bytes14:33
jacekowskiand it's returning byte compare value14:33
DocScrutinizer05it *compares* bytes14:33
DocScrutinizer05which is friggin irrelevant14:33
DocScrutinizer05except for the way n is counting14:33
jacekowskiand for example14:34
petterimax os x?14:34
petterimac :)14:34
jacekowskiand you have inconsistent behaviour across different linux distros14:35
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: still returns int14:35
SpeedEvilSlackware manpage The memcmp() function returns  an  integer  less  than,  equal  to,  or14:35
SpeedEvil       greater than zero if the first n bytes of s1 is found, respectively, to14:35
SpeedEvil       be less than, to match, or be greater than the first n bytes of s214:35
jacekowskiread the description14:35
SpeedEviland says nothing about the actual range14:35
DocScrutinizer05fact is the function still is defined as int  memcmp(const void *s1, const void *s2, size_t n);14:36
SpeedEvilIt's clearly possible to assume that it's the result of subtracting each char in each input string, and returning the result if diffefrent14:36
SpeedEvilbut that isn't specified14:36
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter14:36
petterijacekowski: maybe you are just one bitter mysql dev :P14:36
jacekowskinah, you just hit some random behaviour that makes stuff go wobbly14:37
jacekowskii've tried to repeat it14:37
jacekowskiand in 9 cases out of 10 all i was getting was -1 or 0 or 114:37
jacekowskiand then like every 10th try i was getting something different14:37
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter14:37
DocScrutinizer05(<jacekowski> DocScrutinizer05: except they check for (char)memcpy(...)==0) only a fool would cast a function defined as int to a char14:38
dafoxthey're not really using the value to compute something it seems, its the return value of the function14:39
DocScrutinizer05SHITE! again this 40s delay on clicking a URL14:40
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, they return an int in a function defined as char14:41
DocScrutinizer05I guess14:41
dafoxyes, seems my_bool is really a char14:42
DocScrutinizer05well, returning random shit to a bool (or char) is clearly something even lint would've noticed14:43
jacekowskiit's my_bool14:43
jacekowskinot a standard type14:43
dafoxif it were a real bool it would've worked14:43
dafoxbut I don't really know what happens here14:43
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DocScrutinizer05you should14:44
DocScrutinizer05you should take each opportunity to learn14:44
DocScrutinizer05all hail to strict typing14:45
dafoxI was already looking but I'm getting a lot of result for people trying to convert number-to-string14:45
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DocScrutinizer05the nasty part is: all vulnerable MySQL servers may define all new passwords now14:46
dafoxseems to explain it14:47
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DocScrutinizer05friggin c-coders never doing proper strict typeing14:48
DocScrutinizer05you simply don't do implicit typecasts - problem soved14:48
fastaIf everyone did proper strict typing, we would not have crashing machines anymore.14:50
fastaWe would have machines which always worked and never failed.14:50
fastaUnfortunately, it seems that although everyone wants working systems, nobody builds them.14:51
dafoxI think the problem here is treating my_bool as the builtin bool type though (different rules apply)14:53
jacekowskithere is no bool in C14:55
fastaIn new C there is.14:55
jacekowskinothing in C9914:55
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fastastdbool.h is in C99, AFAIK.14:56
fizzieYes, and _Bool even without the header.14:56
fizzie(C99 "Boolean type".)14:57
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vi_There is no bool in C?14:59
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SpeedEvilThere is no spoon in C.15:00
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fizzieBut perhaps in C34 you can #include <stdutensil.h> and get spoon, knife and fork types. (With spork as a GCC extension.)15:02
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vi_SpeedEvil: aaah, one of my very favourite XKCDs.15:06
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fastaC isn't even a formal language.15:09
fastaI.e. you can say some things in C, but you have no idea whether the machine will respond to it.15:10
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fastaAnd the much touted 'but then you can get more performance' is just an argument which nobody has ever backed up.15:10
fastaThe very notion of accepting input without semantics is an extremely bad idea.15:11
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ShadowJKin other languages it's "you have no idea whether the implementation will conform to spec" ;-)15:11
fastaShadowJK: well, not the languages I am interested in and/or using.15:12
fastaWell, I also use sh/perl/python at the edge of certain systems.15:13
fastaStill, the supposed fact that other also do it wrong, is no reason to also do it wrong.15:13
fastaC was just the simplest thing that could possibly work.15:13
fastaWhere simple is defined as 'given the bias of the designers'.15:14
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ShadowJKOne fun thing about java is the java memory model is like only implemented on one obscure machine, and basically acts like C everywhere else.. But the java model would give you much performance boost in big SMP systems... I doubt any already written code would actually work though15:14
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fastaThe architecture we use in computers also has nothing to do with the universe.15:23
fasta99.99% of programming languages instead assume this architecture.15:24
fastaProgramming language cores could better be designed by physicists.15:25
SpeedEvilShadowJK: And quite a lot of smartcards.15:25
SpeedEvilWay too many people don't understand underlying hardware.15:26
ShadowJKWell the language defines the architecture, but the real life architecture is nicer, so java unintentionally ends up behaving in a for the programmer nicer way15:26
SpeedEvil- that random access speeds have barely changed for RAM since 1985.15:26
SpeedEvil(They've dropped ~10fold, on the back of a ~millionfold expansion in size)15:27
fastaI am talking about something like cellular automata as a base language.15:28
SpeedEvilSynchronisation is a hard problem.15:28
SpeedEvilcockless design isn't fun.15:28
fastaWho cares about fun?15:28
fastaIt's our task to create optimal devices.15:29
SpeedEvilFun = tractable.15:29
fastaChuck Moore created some.15:29
fastaStill, that's not radical enough.15:29
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luke-jrdoes N900 have any kind of un-resettable lock?18:34
luke-jrif so, how do I verify I have the password for it?18:34
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chem|stluke-jr: while unlocked you can access the storage of the lock-code which can be cracked in seconds18:49
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_freemangordonIn the meanwhile:
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dafoxfreemangordon: cool stuff! is this something that will eventually make its way into stable cssu?20:26
freemangordondafox: it depends on the results from the testing stage20:27
dafoxobviously :p But this is really awesome. But it would make the cssu quite big, no?20:28
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freemangordonif it turns out to be stable, if there are no conflicts, etc, etc, then we could start thinking. It is too early now. After all it might be that I am wring and stable thumb2 is impossible on n90020:28
freemangordondafox: no, it will make it smaller :P20:28
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dafoxI mean, I assume ideally every [stock] application that can be recompiled would be 'updated' to this, so many more applications to install?20:29
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freemangordondafox: it is not for the applications, but for the system stuff, ie bins in /rootfs20:29
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freemangordonIt is up to application developers to decide whether to thumb-compile their SW ( reducing the user base to CSSU-devel users only) or to put the stuff in maemo-extras. On the other hand there is COBS comming, so who knows ;)20:31
dafoxrootfs is the core system right? but wouldn't you want to recompile everything that runs?20:31
freemangordonbut it takes time ;)20:31
dafoxI hope it works, you have my vote :)20:31
freemangordonthen try it if you feel brave :P20:31
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dafoxunfortunately I'm not that brave :p I use my n900 as my 'real' phone20:32
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freemangordondafox: so am i :)20:35
freemangordonbut it is up to you of course20:35
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DocScrutinizer05dafox: CSSU never will force a new kernel on users, since we can't force commercial providers of kernel modules to support that kernel21:02
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DocScrutinizer05the idea of CSSU is *not* to be the better new OS version, CSSU is all about keeping *original* maemo alive21:04
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dafoxwhy are 'commercial providers of kernel modules' needed? can you please give me an example?21:25
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thopiekarhi is there a way to run whatsapp or wazapp on N900?22:09
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vi__freemangordon: HOLY SHIT.22:23
vi__Is there any other dogma you two want to smash?22:23
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mira_hi there,  is there anything wrong with I am absolutely unable to register an account22:31
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GeneralAntillesmira_, you should file a bug.22:32
* GeneralAntilles cackles.22:32
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vi__mira_: do you mean the forum?22:37
vi__mira_: do you mean the forum?22:38
mira_yes22:38 is a different account from maemo.org22:38
mira_I was told to wait an hour22:38
vi__did you register for or
vi__and you want to use
vi__(the forum)?22:39
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mira_well yes, I thought I could use the same credentials for both22:40
vi__mira_: no, for some bizzare reason they use differnt login details.22:40
mira_ok thanks22:40
vi__So to use, go to and register there.22:40
mira_okies I will22:41
mira_another question, is anyone experienced in using pocketsphinx22:41
mira_I am working a bit on a voice control app22:42
mira_the main idea is to improve the recognition rate by having several language models and using the one that depends on the app that is the foreground app22:44
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mira_it works so far but I would like to have an idea about the probability that the word pocketsphinx found is the corrent one22:45
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GeneralAntillesvi_, because SSO is difficult to implement.22:45
GeneralAntillesvi__, and Talk was a completely different website in the past.22:46
fastamira_: are you saying you are thinking about the voice recognition problem?22:49
fastamira_: why don't you first implement the current state of the art?22:49
fastamira_: I'd guess that would keep you occupied for >10 years at least.22:49
fastaThen you can start thinking about improvements.22:50
fastaIt's the same thing in most application areas.22:50
mira_n900 doesnt have a voice control app22:51
fastaGoogle does voice recognition on extremely large datasets, and it works.22:51
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fastaThere are likely also ways to do it with less data, but hey, it works.22:51
fastanidO: so?22:51
fastamira_: voice control would be really cool, but it's not 'research'.22:52
mira_but dont I need to be online to use google voice control?22:52
fastaI wasn't implying you should use Google.22:52
mira_and I never said that I would to research22:52
mira_there is a nice module called pocketsphinx22:53
mira_that does the recognition22:53
mira_but it fails very often when you have a large dictionary22:53
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mira_so I want to have several small dictionaries, like every supported app has its own22:54
mira_its just using the pocketsphinx module, implemting the app dependent dictionary (language model) and code the stuff to control the app (mainly by dbus),  thats it22:55
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mira_it works in general, but I would like to have a certain threshold of certainty, thats what I am currently looking for22:57
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mira_I know many ppl dont want voice control for the N900 but I would like to dial and control navit while driving by voice control22:58
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fastamira_: there is even research on that.23:02
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Woody14619There's an app being developed on TMO for N900/N9 currently for this, FYI.23:02
mira_yes the pocketsphinx is under development23:02
Woody14619fasta:  Please don't discourage people who are looking to help...23:03
fastaWoody14619: I am just helping him/her not to reinvent the wheel.23:03
Woody14619fasta: this person is saying they're looking at options on how to bring functionality to N900 using an existing tool (pocketsphynx)23:03
Woody14619fasta: They're not trying to re-invent.  They're looking to build on existing tools.23:04
mira_correct Woody1461923:04
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Woody14619fasta: and currently there is not an existing tool for doing this on the N900.23:04
fastaWoody14619: the 'application specific dictionaries'-part has some research papers on it.23:04
fastaI think it's more efficient to read a paper in 10 minutes than to think for a week about something.23:05
Woody14619That's great... Be usefull and point those out.  But don't discourage doing anything becuase it may be re-inventing.  Re-inventing is part of the learning process.23:05
fastaWell, I didn't mean to discourage you.23:05
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fastaIt's more awesome than most projects.23:05
fastaThe resistor application is also awesome, btw.23:06
fastaThe GUI is just made of genious.23:06
Woody14619:)  Good... so, mira_, the app currently under development can be read about on TMO, at
mira_fasta: I don't do any research, I just make use of existing tools23:06
fastaIt could be improved, of course.23:06
fastaFor example, currently it's only a one directional mapping.23:06
fastaIt could also show the resistor colors based on the resistor and tolerances input.23:07
mira_thanks for that link, I will see whether this one is better than mine23:07
Woody14619mira_, They're using just such an approach right now for command interface vs general entry.23:07
Woody14619mira_, also consider, it may be useful to merge both to pick up sub-sets of features each lacks that the other has...23:08
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Woody14619mira_, always easier to colaborate than compete.  Especially in an open environment like N900.23:08
Woody14619mira_, good luck! :)23:09
mira_yeah you are absolutely right Woody14619, I just didnt find THAT one23:09
Woody14619fasta, true. :)  Lots of apps could be refined and added.  But to do that we need people willing to put effort it.  Even if some of them have to re-learn chunks or wind up making the same widget again, sometimes newer is actually better.  Especially if that newer version has a maintainer, and the old one does not. ;)23:10
fastaWoody14619: how many n900 users are there left? 10,000?23:11
Woody14619fasta, there are times I've simply scrapped an existing tool and re-written, since deciphering what was already there would have taken longer than to simply re-create it in the way I think.  Especially if it's poorly written/commented source.23:12
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fastaWoody14619: yeah, know the feeling.23:12
Woody14619fasta, in some cases user base is irrelivant.  The true measure is developer numbers.  And those are low, but stable right now.23:13
Woody14619fasta, one can change the other dramatically.  Yes.  But in a 2-year old product, those numbers are now semi-static, at least in slope if nothing else. :)23:13
fastaI think there are also infrastructure issues which are important.23:13
fastaE.g. when a new critical component comes out, the rest should still work.23:14
fastaBackwards compatibility needs to be transparent to both users and developers on any given platform.23:14
fastaI have no idea how n900 does it (seems to be good), but lots of platforms fail because they either don't offer anything or fail to do those things.23:15
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Woody14619fasta, agreed.  But those are side-issues.  One can re-write a component with an identical API if documented correctly.  The problems arise when the documentation is poor or non-existent. :)23:16
Woody14619Anyway.. while this is fun, I must get back to work.23:16
fastaYeah, I value undocumented code at $0.23:16
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mira_thanks again for helping me, I have to go (its pretty late here in germany)23:19
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LantiziaLo, anyone using nitdroid who can tell me if nitdroid can still see MyDocs?23:30
vi__Well yes23:35
vi__but no23:35
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freemangordonvi_: Are you aware of any other dogma that woths smashing?23:58
freemangordonwhat is with my R23:58
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