IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-06-10

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DocScrutinizer05fasta: (powerkernel) why should CSSU ship a kernel? Isn't it easy enough to install it straight away if you want that kernel rather than the original one?00:19
DocScrutinizer05fasta: #1 mantra of CSSU: "it won't however ship anything that can get installed from extras repository"00:20
DocScrutinizer05CSSU is about maximum possible freedom of choice, not about forcefeeding users with alternatives to stuff that may or may not be optional in original maemo fremantle00:22
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DocScrutinizer05powerkernel has one inevitable problem: kernel modules built for stock kernel won't work with this custom kernel00:23
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DocScrutinizer05CSSU is all dedicated to 100% compatibility whenever reasonably feasible. There shouldn't be a single user of dunnowhat acme-camera-app or whatever, who can't use CSSU or would have to bin his expensive commercial app that ship with stock kernel modules only00:25
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DocScrutinizer05if a patch (of whatever kind)  A) wouldn't need CSSU to get applied, and/or B) can't guarantee 100% compatibility, and/or C) doesn't even fix anything that affects users of stock system - it probably has little to no chances to ever go into CSSU00:29
DocScrutinizer05it's business and domain of projects like powerkernel to bring such improvements to users, that are not absolutely clean and kinda mandatory00:30
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uros1strange problem here after reflash missing clock and rest of status bar00:34
uros1any idea?00:34
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uros1no idea?00:37
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.01:00
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* DocScrutinizer05 hears a little man whispering into his ear: "powerkernel? ha! why not bundle most recent kubuntu to new version of libreoffice? It's a great distro and much better than anytging any user installing libreoffice will have installed on his machine right now"01:20
* DocScrutinizer05 kills the little man with a rolled up newspaper01:22
DocScrutinizer05"Tanke THIS!"01:22
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DocScrutinizer05one additional note: while we haven't really achieved yet, the original idea of CSSU updates been to get rid of that Nokia concept of monolithic PR update blobs, and rather update each subsystem whenever an update is due, without postponing stuff till next nega bundle rolls out the door01:28
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: you should simply add a factoid about what cssu is instead of repeatng yourself always :D01:28
DocScrutinizer05factoid length is limited01:29
merlin1991something along the lines of ~includetocssu01:29
DocScrutinizer05I should copy shit to a wiki page01:29
DocScrutinizer05but wait, isn't all there already? ;-D01:29
DocScrutinizer05read the f***g wiki01:30
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DocScrutinizer05I think I'll have to continue explaining it over and over again for the next min 5 years (ordered my #4 and #5 N900, so I'd really hope both hw and repos will serve me at least that long)01:32
Macerceltics in 7!01:33
MacerDocScrutinizer05: lol01:33
MacerDocScrutinizer05: get a lumia 900 and put maemo on it :-P01:34
merlin1991I ordered #4 some time ago, but I still have to corner to suppliant and ask him where the fuck it is01:34
Macernot possible huh?01:34
Maceri still have my #2 with its broken sim reader01:34
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Maceranybody want to buy it? it's just collecting dust here01:34
DocScrutinizer05got one hooker here, more than enough01:34
Macerit reads.. just doesn't read it all the time :)01:35
* DocScrutinizer05 looks at N9 and hooker, wonders why he's thinking about Lore and Data01:38
DocScrutinizer05just to spam the channel a bit more: got a CF-29 today :-D \o/01:40
* DocScrutinizer05 does a little stepdance on the CF-2901:41
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budfiveWhat's the going price for an n900 these days?01:49
DocScrutinizer05new 260EUR if you can find some01:50
DocScrutinizer05without original package and accessories01:50
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budfiveGotta love the depreciation!01:50
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DocScrutinizer05LOL at Black Hawk Toughbook02:09
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: what do you need an cf-29 for?02:20
DocScrutinizer05well, just love decent hardware02:22
merlin1991unless you usually use your notebooks in a warzone and expect it to work after your base got hit, I don't see the point in having it ;)02:23
DocScrutinizer05or maybe just not repeat what others said already:
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DocScrutinizer05I already stumbled and fell with a CF-27 in my hand. The poor pavement ;-D02:24
merlin1991gotta love youtube comments: ...Refurbished Toughbooks protect and secure your data better than any laptop.02:26
DocScrutinizer05well, let's say I just need it for holiday02:27
DocScrutinizer05and for full contact combat ;-P (I actually wonder if the thing counts as a weapon on german demonstrations)02:28
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: I bet the law in question is vague enough that anything sharp, heavy or whatever can be counted as a weapon02:33
DocScrutinizer05recently the have a tendency to invent laws that are like chewing gum. E.G what's 'smoking'?02:34
DocScrutinizer05or on demonstrations: what's "disguise"?02:34
RaimuHehe, conveniently undefined or vague laws. Gotta love those.02:34
RaimuSounds good and smart and sharp on paper to the masses and you can always say "cops sort it out".02:35
RaimuYeah, cops and courts. And yeah they sure do. *grimace*02:35
RaimuThis reminds me, I would hate to ever, ever depend on the expertise of, say, any judge or jury of randomly-picked individuals if I was accused of anything -- anything -- that had something to do with modern tech or the Internet or whatever.02:36
DocScrutinizer05"SUCKER! I don't give a shit if that's an astma inhaler! you pay 40 bucks for smoking in the nonsmoker area now, or..."02:36
merlin1991Raimu: yeah, modern tech is kind of a problem02:37
RaimuYou could have a completely reasonable defense that any actual computer-savvy person would understand, but the people sitting there and deciding for me wouldn't know the difference. They would just think some CSI probably traced my IP with some computer graphics animation and it's all waterproof 101%02:38
RaimuRant over. Good night. o/02:39
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merlin1991Raimu: they used visual basic to make a gui to trace your ip and took a screenshot of your irc chat be cause it's all voilatile ;)02:40
merlin1991 and
DocScrutinizer05\o/ for 50% segfaults on opening those flash11 things on my T50002:42
teotwaki merlin1991 is that the one with the chick going "Good thing I speak l33t"?02:42
teotwakimerlin1991: I think the worst is still the blowfish blowjob scene02:43
merlin1991teotwaki: yep it's in the 2nd link02:43
merlin1991you mean the one where he "hacks" the cia server?02:43
teotwakiyesterday, I was just flipping through channels waiting for sleep to come02:44
DocScrutinizer05Numb3rs is probably as stupid and silly as it possibly gets02:44
teotwakisaw some naval cops show02:44
teotwakithe one with gibbs?02:44
teotwakiNCIS I think02:44
teotwakiWell, the "Miami" version of that.02:44
teotwakiSome dude gets a call, and their elite hacker starts "tracing them"02:45
DocScrutinizer05NCIS Miami is almost as idiotic, yes02:45
teotwakiwithin a second "yeah, the call is coming from the same building, lemme get the GPS signal"02:45
* SpeedEvil ponders...02:45
SpeedEvilMidomer Murders - Miami02:45
teotwakinot only did they immediately see 3 phones on a map of the building02:45
teotwakithe map was 3D, and the gps signal showed them on which floor they were02:46
teotwakinow, if we were to go back on that, they're going to make us believe they have 3D topological maps, correlated with GPS data, for every single building on the east coast02:46
teotwakiGPS is automagically broadcast when you place a call02:47
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teotwakiit doesn't matter where you are, anyone can receive that signal -- except the badies, they never use that "smart" technology.02:47
* merlin1991 rofls02:47
DocScrutinizer05and damn that new generation of GPS gets a sub-meter accuracy fix *everywhere*, in 0.5s02:48
teotwakiin through meters of reinforced concrete02:48
teotwakiI can't get a signal through my fucking backpack02:48
r00t|n900teotwaki: remove that lead shielding...02:49
teotwakiso that's why it's so heavy!02:50
DocScrutinizer05well, it's contemporary fairy tales. Fantasy, fiction, like Perry Rhodan02:50
teotwakinext scene, (baddie) sniper makes some dude's phone ring, has him in her scope, spends roughly 30 seconds adjusting the scope for wind and shit, takes the shot, and misses (obviously)02:50
merlin1991teotwaki: also the tinfoil hat is affecting your reception ;)02:50
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teotwakitwo elite cops go after her, one of them shouts "cover me" (they're roughly at 400m from the building) and the dude whips out his 9mm and starts shooting02:50
merlin1991I really love it how in most "csi" series the sniper adjusts the scope for wind and stuff when the target is only over the street02:51
teotwakievery single bullet hits within a closer area than the sniper bullet02:51
teotwakithe guy somehow manages to get up the 8th story of the (empty and abandoned) parking lot within 3 seconds02:51
merlin1991don't you know, them cops have amazing aim with their 9mm ;)02:51
SpeedEvilteotwaki: Pigs can fly in CSI!02:52
teotwakihe sees a car driving down, whips out his pistol, and empties some 20 bullets into the car02:52
GeneralAntilles9mm is more accurate than .300 Win Mag, dumbass.02:52
GeneralAntillesLearn something.02:52
GeneralAntillesShorter barrels from imparting harmonic vibrations to the bullet02:53
GeneralAntillesso they fly truer.02:53
DocScrutinizer05it's metric, it has to be more accurate02:53
teotwakilet's go back over the scene: there was no wind in any of the trees, the scope didn't need adjusting. The shot was unmissable. 9mm has less recoil and exactly the same concrete penetrating properties as a .50 cal, cops are allowed to shoot at random passing cars without probable cause (he couldn't see the driver, and never saw her climb into the car)02:53
teotwakinow, I don't mind the odd honest mistake02:55
teotwakiSuch as, for example, some show playing Beethoven in the background and the dialogue going "Oh, I love Mozart"02:55
merlin1991still the best wtf regarding guns I had was in matrix, where neo dodges the bullets02:55
teotwakimerlin1991: you've not seen the one where they bend bullets?02:56
merlin1991drops weapons to ground, dodges (no pistols on the ground), picks the magically reappearing pistols up again02:56
teotwakiMovie "Wanted"?02:56
merlin1991teotwaki: you mean wanted02:56
merlin1991yeah :D02:56
merlin1991well at least their weapons don't jump in and out of existance02:57
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: But there you can explain that legitimately.02:57
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: that's the matrix02:57
teotwakiIt's the matrix02:57
SpeedEvilBecuase stuff can actually go in and out of existance.02:57
teotwakiIt's a shame they never made any sequels to the Matrix, good movie.02:57
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merlin1991 for the wtf :D02:58
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GeneralAntillesteotwaki, you're just bitter because you can't suspend your disbelief like the rubes can. :P02:59
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: rubes?02:59
GeneralAntillesteotwaki, I always thought the same thing about the Star Wars trilogy. Those are just begging for a prequel.03:00
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: true.03:00
teotwakiAnd I'm still waiting for the last 6 books.03:00
GeneralAntillesrube noun Informal an unsophisticated person from a rural area; hick.03:00
GeneralAntilles~define rube03:00
infobotUse ~dict for definitions.03:00
GeneralAntilles~dict rube03:00
infobotDictionary 'rube' (1 of 2): babe, backwoodsman, boor, boorish, bucolic, bumpkin, butterfingers, child, child of nature, churlish, clod, cloddish, clodhopper, clodhopping, clown, clownish, clumsy, countrified, country bumpkin, country-born, country-bred, dove, dub, duffer, dupe, farmer, farmerish, foozler, foul-up, from the sticks, fumble-fist, gawk, gawky, goof, goofball, goofer, hayseed, hick, hicky, hillbilly, hobnailed, infant, ingenue, ...03:00
GeneralAntillesThat's not a dictionary, that's a thesaurus, rube!03:01
teotwaki"I know what you meant when you said ~define, however, I will not cooperate because I want you to understand how important I am."03:01
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* teotwaki has no sound03:02
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry?03:02
* teotwaki has to wait till the download finishes03:02
teotwaki~forget define03:02
infoboti forgot define, teotwaki03:02
teotwaki~define is I know exactly what you meant when your feeble mind guessed at the keyword ~define, however, may I suggest that you use ~dict instead? My time, is, afterall, precious.03:04
infobotUse ~dict for definitions.03:04
teotwakiYou bastard03:04
GeneralAntillesI don't have any dog food left03:04
GeneralAntillesI don't want to go buy dog food.03:04
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: rice03:05
GeneralAntillesRaw rice?03:05
GeneralAntillesI wish /I/ had steaks.03:05
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: no, cooked.03:05
DocScrutinizer05Arf Arf03:05
GeneralAntillesteotwaki, easier to go to the grocery store. :\03:05
* GeneralAntilles gives DocScrutinizer05 a treat.03:05
DocScrutinizer05CAN HAZ STEAK?03:05
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: it's cheaper than dog food, plus it's a lot healthier than dog food for humans.03:05
teotwakiI know you're a student, but still bro03:05
* teotwaki sends food stamps to GeneralAntilles 03:07
GeneralAntillesI guess I should just go.03:07
teotwakiyou thought the dog was fat and could use the diet anyway03:07
teotwakithe shop probably ran out of dog food anyway03:07
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: ever tried Linux Mint?03:08
GeneralAntillesUsing and hating Ubuntu on my x220.03:09
teotwakiGeneralAntilles: try it out, the MATE edition, it's actually decent03:10
* teotwaki is lighting a ciggie03:10
DocScrutinizer05anybody a fsckng clue what might be the reason for spellchecker in KDE xchat (and generally systemwide) fails03:10
infobotbuntkuh is, like, ... Redmond, or
teotwakioh, fwiw, do you know how Stallman reacted when I lit a cigarette next to him?03:10
GeneralAntillesHe freaked like the asshole he is?03:10
teotwakiHe grabbed me by the shoulders and yelled in my face "Noooo DON'T DO IT! Life's isn't that bad!"03:11
DocScrutinizer05he explained to you some details about tobacco production isn't free?03:11
infobotteotwaki meant: He grabbed me by the shoulders and yelled in my face "Noooo DON'T DO IT! Life isn't that bad!"03:11
GeneralAntillesWhat an ass.03:11
teotwakiOh come on; by and large, it's probably the funniest thing he could've done.03:12
GeneralAntillesOr he could've just ignored it. :P03:12
teotwakiAnd yes, I was expecting a monologue the same way DocScrutinizer05 did03:12
DocScrutinizer05A."Bro, you ain't seen nuttin yet!"03:12
teotwakiBiking home from the afternoon I spent with Stallman, I was of two minds.03:13
DocScrutinizer05"Don't get me started on how bad it is, or you'll start smoking too"03:13
teotwakiIn one way, I understand his "the free software issue is as important as human rights" stance03:13
teotwakion the other, I can't tolerate his disdain for proprietary developers, my stance on that is "I'm free to feed my family"03:14
GeneralAntillesStallman is just a hardline asshole. :P03:14
DocScrutinizer05I prefer 10 stallmans to one poettering03:15
DocScrutinizer05rather than?03:16
teotwakidepends on the beginning on the sentence03:16
teotwaki"I'll take 10 stallmans over one poettering"03:16
Hurrianwait, are we discussing the merits of pulse/avahi/systemd?03:17
teotwakiHurrian: no.03:17
teotwakiInstalling Linux: 8 minutes. Installing Windows: 7 hours.03:17
merlin1991teotwaki: win7 takes about 15 mins03:18
teotwakimerlin1991: bit longer than that03:18
Hurrianteotwaki, given you use the "smart people"'s method of installing both, Linux takes ~2 minutes and Windows takes ~15-20 mins03:18
DocScrutinizer05installing linux takes two weeks and up03:18
teotwakimerlin1991: but it's the 6 hours of installing drivers that kills the performance.03:18
DocScrutinizer05installing windows takes forever, literally03:19
Hurrianthe smart method being "untar your pre-prepared linux FS tarball" / "apply the windows WIM image directly"03:19
teotwakiHurrian: yeah, that still requires you have your image setup03:19
Hurriangentoo stage3+newest archlinux kernels03:19
merlin1991teotwaki: dunno 1 hr driver install for win, or 1 day s&%/?stfu graphics card still does not perform on linux03:20
Hurrianteotwaki, that's assuming your hardware isn't supported OOTB by Windows03:20
Hurrianmeh, the only driver I have to install is my video card driver for games03:20
teotwakiHurrian: nvidia gtx 56003:20
teotwakiand the ethernet port03:21
teotwakiand the esata03:21
teotwakiand the raid03:21
teotwakiand the usb 3.003:21
merlin1991teotwaki: well on linux I had nvidia gtx 560 and ethernet port03:22
Hurrianmeh, fbsd handles my storage for me, I don't let NTFS near my storage drives03:22
merlin1991thanks to mainline being totally fucked up and dropping tcp sessions at random03:22
Hurrianmerlin1991, nvidia binary drivers are acceptable for modern usage03:22
Hurrians/modern/modern card/03:22
infobotHurrian meant: merlin1991, nvidia binary drivers are acceptable for modern card usage03:22
Hurrianfor cards 1/2 gens earlier than the newest, nouveau does well for single-monitor setups03:23
DocScrutinizer05I got tought today they changed FHS and now there's no /bin and /sbin anymore :-O03:23
DocScrutinizer05on that fedora system that came with the CF-29, /bin and /sbin are symlinks to /usr/*03:24
Hurrianyou do know fedora is beta testing for rhel, right?03:24
r00t|n900well, works if usr is on root...03:25
teotwakiwho cares about /bin and /sbin being symlinks03:25
DocScrutinizer05kinda, heard that03:25
DocScrutinizer05r00t|n900: we're all aware of that03:25
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: you do know the historical reason behind having some stuff in /usr/bin, other stuff in /bin, etc?03:25
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"03:25
nox-.oO(who just talked about poettering here?...)03:26
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: it's all nice and fine03:28
merlin1991untill you reach the "Going Forward" section03:28
teotwakinight all03:28
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DocScrutinizer05cya teo03:29
merlin1991well untill there it just states why we have /bin and /usr/bin and why this leads to problems if /usr is mounted too late03:29
merlin1991in that section though it calls for "abondon ship, put everything in /"03:29
DocScrutinizer05yeah, those who invented /usr had just owl shit in theoir skull03:30
Hurrianmerlin1991, more of a problem with systemd where it depends on /usr03:30
DocScrutinizer05and poettering again is the one we need to detect the fact03:31
Hurrianyeah. pulse and systemd are both good ideas, with awful execution03:32
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: actually that's already a lame excuse for sloppyness and somehow screwed argumentation chain: >>Due to this, many upstream developers have decided to consider the problem of a separate /usr that is not mounted during early boot an outdated question, and started to close bugs regarding these issues as WONTFIX. We certainly cannot blame them, as the benefit of supporting this is questionable and brings a lot of additional work03:48
DocScrutinizer05with it.<<03:48
nox-and to bring some perspective, freebsd for example can load kernel modules via the bootloader and thus doesnt need initrds, and seperate /usr still works03:50
DocScrutinizer05screwed as those devels who closed tickets WONTFIX probably did that on tickets that were like "can't play poweron jingle thru PA"03:50
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FIQ|n900I read "chanlog" as "changelog" and was confused..03:51
DocScrutinizer05and I would expect they even commented on it "closing WONTFIX. Either move PA to rootfs (/sbin), or postpone your f*ing jingle until /usr got mounted"03:52
nox-since when does one need pulseaudio to play a simple sound?03:52
nox-oh you mean on n900...03:53
DocScrutinizer05no, I'm talking about poettering's newest idiocy:
Hurrianpeople expect others to use initrds?03:56
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MohammadAGTmo dead?11:31
rcgseems so11:32
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Estel_hm, many times I'm stunned by expertise and knowledge of Maemo people...12:51
Estel_Other times, I'm really grateful, that people like Stallman or Poettering fans shape the way we're going to use linux, modern days12:53
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Estel_You can flame me whatever You want, but I'm perfectly sure, that if our NIRC gurus" would be on charge, we would have frozen specification, feature set, and layout in freedesktop from late 80's ;)12:54
Estel_up to this day.12:54
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Estel_+48668 version of overlays for other use cases, 3/4 of them non compatible with each other12:55
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fastaDoesn't /home/user have 32GB of space?13:23
jogait's mounted at /home/user/MyDocs13:24
jacekowskiand it's 28G13:25
fastaAh, never mind. I just had made some wrong assumptions.13:26
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fastaIs sitting next to an n900 FM transmitter dangerous to health?13:41
Estel_yes. It's as much dangerous, as listening to casual FM radio, or walking street13:43
Estel_or sex13:43
Estel_everything is dangerous to health. Even passing of time itself.13:43
fastaEstel_: I moved a lot of mp3s to the .sound directory, but it doesn't list any. Do you know why?13:44
Estel_probably, because .sound directory isn't meant to move files there13:44
Estel_eveyr directory starting with dot "." is ommited by tracker, by default13:44
jacekowskifasta: have you disconnected the phone13:44
Estel_no, he mvoed fiels to directory where system sounds - like sms beep - are stored13:44
Estel_it's a feature, that this dir is ommited13:45
fastaWhere should I put them instead?13:45
Estel_whenever Yuo want, but not anywhere under directory tree that starts with dot13:45
Estel_so /.whatever/music/files is bad13:45
Estel_but /anywhere/you/want/at/all is good13:45
Estel_tracker will find it on it's own13:45
fasta/home/user/mp3s then13:45
Estel_why not13:46
Estel_anyway, mp3 suxx, use ogg instead13:46
fastaAnd flac?13:46
Estel_flac rox, but files are biiig13:46
fastaI.e. does it support flac?13:46
Estel_it support everything desktop computer support, as long as You have approriate things installed13:46
fastaWell, that's like freaking awesome then. Thanks.13:46
Estel_it's not a phone, it's computer with phone functions13:46
Estel_get used to it and Your life will be easier :)13:47
Estel_no problem13:47
fastaI already managed to shoot pictures in raw format too.13:47
Estel_of course.13:47
fastaAnd, I can use FM radio while USB is connected, thanks to jacekowski's software.13:47
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Estel_probably, cia camera-ui from Nicolai? Or, via fmcam drivers?13:47
Estel_boths give slightly different results13:48
fastaEstel_: I think I use fcamera.13:48
* Estel_ nods13:48
fastaEstel_: I also have the blessn900 app.13:48
Estel_there is no definite answer which one gives better results, so, I use to do shotting from boths (of course not at the same very moment)13:48
fastaIt would be nice if I could zoom into the raw pictures.13:48
Estel_during session13:48
Estel_blessn900 suxx big time13:48
fastaEstel_: I would like to map the camera button to fcamera, though.13:48
Estel_justs tick to camera-ui from CSSU, it also can take raws, or fcam13:49
Estel_no problem13:49
fastaEstel_: how?13:49
Estel_instal "quick launch"13:49
infobotEstel_ meant: install "quick launch"13:49
Estel_it allow You to map things to camera slie out13:50
Estel_slide, ffs13:50
Estel_i.e. You open camera cover, and menu with 4 possible items appear13:50
Estel_also, you mayw ant to sue shortcutd13:50
Estel_it allow You to map things to camera button itself too, although, hgalf press only13:50
Estel_both long press and short press13:50
Estel_so you can have different things for long and short half-press13:50
Estel_for example, I use quick launch, and, upon sliding camera cover, I've 4 options ons creen - camera-ui, fcam, lowlight, and torch (flashlight)13:51
fastaEstel_: that's exactly what I want yes.13:51
Estel_so have fun :)13:51
fastaHow should I view the Tizen platform in the mobile landscape?13:52
SpeedEvilThrough rose-tinted glasses.13:52
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fastaI mean: are phones based on it basically as hackable as the n900/is it a cheap rip-off/does it even already work, etc.?13:54
fastaI also haven't been able to add any widget other than the Associated Press widget.13:56
fastaIn particular the CPU load one.13:56
fastaI installed it, but it doesn't show up anywhere.13:57
Estel_fasta, if Tizen is usable for anything, then it's onlyto get rid of it and install Mer14:01
Estel_as soon as you get device14:01
Estel_and *if* it's doable.14:01
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DarkchaosRofl. Firefox takes 2.5GB RAM15:11
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fastaDarkchaos: likely it doesn't.15:23
fastaDarkchaos: i.e. some web-app takes 2.5GB of RAM/15:23
fastaDarkchaos: completely different statement.15:23
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fastaIs there like a newbie friendly description of starhash enabler?15:24
hatake_kakashiSend raw commands through cellular network? ;)15:25
fastaThe people on generally seem not to be pleased; likely because it seems to be targeted at phone engineers ;)15:25
fastaI am thinking of things like: where is the UI?15:25
fastaI.e. where can I configure it?15:25
hatake_kakashian average joe wouldn't want to fiddle with fancy commands unless there was a need in the first place15:25
fastaWell, the redirection stuff seems pretty useful.15:26
hatake_kakashiI thought starhash just gives you extra buttons at the phone dial screen15:26
jacekowskifasta: thing is, same web-app on opera would take half of that ram15:26
jacekowskifasta: and firefox is well known for it's memory leaks15:26
hatake_kakashilets not forget IE15:27
fastajacekowski: I know firefox is well known for its memory leaks.15:27
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: IE has improved a lot15:27
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: latest IE is faster than firefox15:27
fastajacekowski: I also know that it's in most cases a problem created by the way JavaScript/DOM interaction works.15:27
jacekowskifasta: doesn't matter, other browsers don't leak like that15:28
fastajacekowski: and while web programmers could mitigate it in most cases, they don't do that.15:28
fastajacekowski: I think a factor of 2 is not that much.15:28
fastajacekowski: But if it is really a different function, there is a problem.15:28
fastaI.e. a memory leak would suggest memory usage goes to infinity.15:28
jacekowskiit does15:28
fastaIf that really is a Firefox problem, the indeed it's awful.15:29
fastaI think most people run Chrome these days.15:29
hatake_kakashijacekowski, not that I have tried the latest IE, though I'm sure IE wouldn't be all that much better than firefox imo15:29
fastaI think IE10 isn't that bad.15:29
fastaIE7 is just a joke.15:29
hatake_kakashirather, was :)15:30
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: IE9 doesn't have a single line of code common with IE615:30
fastaLots of web developers dropped it I think.15:30
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: it was pretty much a total rewrite15:30
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: and their JS engine is really fast15:30
Hurrianmeh, IE10 is pretty much standards-compliant with everyone else15:30
HurrianIE9 still has some quirks15:30
RaimuWhere's IE10, Metro?15:32
RaimuOh, there's a W7 compatible platform preview out.15:34
hatake_kakashijacekowski, still, according to a benchmark I just saw, it still isn't vastly superior compared to firefox let alone chrome15:34
RaimuI thought IE9 was pretty nice for IE.15:34
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: but IE is improving15:35
jacekowskihatake_kakashi: firefox is getting more bloated all the time15:35
RaimuFirefox's only selling point for me these days is the fact that it has a lot of plugins, but that's the only thing rooting for it.15:35
RaimuChrome is a massive, and I mean m-a-s-s-i-v-e memory hog, but it doesn't matter on my desktop PC.15:35
fastaCan anyone please tell me how I can get the CPU load displayed in some fancy widget?15:35
Raimufasta: Tried this?
hatake_kakashijacekowski, doesn't mean that mozilla foundation won't rewrite up firefox to make it go fast again, surely people complain about laggy-ness15:36
Raimuhatake_kakashi: Sure, they did that between FF three and four.15:36
fastaRaimu: maemo seems dead here15:37
hatake_kakashiI'd second what Raimu said with the cpumem applet, that was one of the fair few programs I've installed eversince I got my N90015:37
Raimuhatake_kakashi: I'm afraid though that the next time they're going to make some hard design choices that affect backwards compatibility.15:37
fastaRaimu: Internal Server Error 50015:37
Raimufasta: Odd. Works for me. >:|15:37
hatake_kakashifasta, proxy?15:37
fastahatake_kakashi: no15:37
Raimufasta: Maybe you have a monster cookie that's making it behave like that.15:38
RaimuYou know, corrupted one.15:38
fastaA monster cookie?15:38
hatake_kakashiRaimu, well heck, some things may have to go :)15:38
hatake_kakashiinfected cookie15:38
Raimufasta: I love saying "monster cookie". I meant a corrupt cookie that got bungled somehow and needs to be deleted from the browser cache.15:38
fastaRaimu: it's a server error, not a client error.15:39
fastaRaimu: the server should reset the cookie.15:39
fastaRaimu: in short, it's just a programmer error on maemo.org15:39
fastaRaimu: another browser works, btw.15:40
RaimuSo yeah, there's bad data in your browser cache or something.15:40
fastaRaimu: I already see some tiny icon with cpu load and probably memory.15:40
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RaimuDoes HAM work?15:41
fastaRaimu: I am looking for something which is a bit larger than icon size.15:41
fastaRaimu: yes15:41
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RaimuThere are widgets, I recall, but at least one I actually tried hogged CPU resources.15:41
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RaimuSo that was kind of a "observer creating an effect on the observed" thing and I removed it.15:42
fastaRaimu: which map application do you use?15:44
fastaIs OVI still being updated?15:44
RaimuI rely on browsered Google Maps, to be honest. Where I live the on-platform n900 map apps aren't much use.15:45
RaimuNo clue about OVI.15:45
fastaRaimu: in which browser?15:46
fastaWhere is Chrome for n900, btw?15:46
RaimuDead and buried15:47
RaimuOr, rather, if you want to use Easy Debian on the side, there.15:48
RaimuBut there is no official Chromium port or even an unofficial one these days.15:48
RaimuSome years ago there was some sort of an intellectual property shitstorm over Chromium and something something profit, and people just stopped porting it on Maemo.15:48
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Estel_Chromium works via easy debian16:20
Estel_and those shitstorm was just a hoax16:20
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fastaYou need 2.5 GB free on one of your memory cards, although after installing, you will only need 2 GB.16:24
fastaIsn't the rootfs 2GB?16:24
NIN101it isn't16:24
fastaOr rather the location for programs, etc.16:25
fastaI thought it was limited at 2GB.16:25
fastaI.e. some kind of disconnect between data and application.16:25
Hurrianfasta, make a partition and dump e-d there16:25
NIN101more or less correct, /home/ is 2 GB, and they do some symlink busines, "opticated" programs are stored in /home/opt/16:25
fastaHurrian: why do I need to make a partition?16:26
fastaHurrian: (the instructions don't talk about that)16:27
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fastaIt seems to just install an image file.16:28
fastaSo, your suggestion makes no sense to me.16:28
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fastaIs there some way to automatically switch to whatever network is available?16:29
fastaI mean without manually pressing all kinds of buttons.16:29
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VenemoI recall that there was some way to show a splash screen on Maemo 5.16:49
Venemocan someone tell me what it was?16:49
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fastaVenemo: bootsplash16:55
Venemofasta: I mean, a spash screen for an app16:55
VenemoI think it was a parameter in the .desktop file, but I'm unsure16:56
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fastaWhy don't globs work?16:56
fastaI.e. ls *16:56
fastaOn my desktop system ls *==ls output16:56
fastaOn n900: ls *==error16:57
fastaI even tried with bash16:57
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DocScrutinizer06can't reproduce, WFM17:00
fastaDocScrutinizer06: /bin/ls: invalid option -- 517:01
fastaDocScrutinizer06: I inputted '/bin/ls *' without quotes17:01
fasta(this is via ssh)17:01
fastaIn a directory with lots of files17:01
fastaBusyBox v1.20.1 (Debian 1.20.1power1) multi-call binary.17:02
fastaPerhaps these are the 'improved' tools which actually aren't improved?17:02
fastaHow do I get quassel for n900? It has disappeared from the OVI store.17:03
fastaI only found that.17:03
fastaDocScrutinizer06: I don't know whether it's called like that. Under HAM it says Enhanced Busy box shell.17:03
DocScrutinizer06open a ticket if you feel like17:04
DocScrutinizer06or get rid of enhanced busybox17:04
DocScrutinizer06install proper unix tools17:04
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fastaYou mean the defaults or something else?17:05
infoboti guess jrtools is
DocScrutinizer06that page is called /tools because I originally just was about to replace busybox with proper bash and unix tools17:06
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DocScrutinizer06NB you still need (original working) busybox for boot17:07
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infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils17:11
DocScrutinizer06and messybox-powa is for... what now?17:11
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DocScrutinizer06fasta: get bash3 or bash4, and proper gnu-* utils17:13
JaffaAf'noon, all. I see a purple high;ight, but have been away all week and forgot tp /quit.17:17
DocScrutinizer06o/ Jaffa17:17
fastaDocScrutinizer06: how can I do the equivalent sudo gainroot && ls (pseudo-code) that would then run ls as root?17:20
fastaDocScrutinizer06: If I do sudo gainroot && ls, ls output is not shown.17:21
DocScrutinizer06sorry, I don't get the question, or the problem17:21
DocScrutinizer06sudo gainroot is not meant to run other stuff en passant17:22
DocScrutinizer06sudo gainroot is equiv for su17:22
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DocScrutinizer06while root is equiv for su -17:23
fasta~ $ su17:23
fastasu: must be suid to work properly17:23
vi__how do you gain root on a Stock n90017:23
DocScrutinizer06su doesn't work in messybox17:23
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils17:24
DocScrutinizer06>>... and immanent limitations (see su)17:24
vi__BB on n900, wtf where they smoking?17:24
fastaDocScrutinizer06: so, how do I accomplish the goal: hassle free ssh myphone <run sequence of commands as root> ?17:24
fastavi__: sudo gainroot gets you a rootshell.17:25
fastavi__: so start X-terminal.17:25
DocScrutinizer06err, no17:25
vi__I want to know for a completly stock n90017:25
DocScrutinizer06sudo gainroot does NOT get you a rootshell17:25
DocScrutinizer06root gets you a rootshell17:25
fastaDocScrutinizer06: but root && ls also doesn't work.17:26
DocScrutinizer06there's sudo for that17:26
fastaDocScrutinizer06: you are probably right about that other thing.17:26
fastaDocScrutinizer06: so, sudo root && ls?17:26
vi__fasta echo "ls" | root17:26
DocScrutinizer06sudo ls17:27
vi__fasta: echo "ls" | root17:27
DocScrutinizer06and that's not configured in sudoers17:27
fastaDocScrutinizer06: right17:27
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fastaecho ls | root17:27
fastamesg: not a tty17:27
vi__fasta: echo "ls" | sudo gainroot17:28
fastavi__: ok, that does work.17:29
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vi__fasta: wtf are you trying to do?17:29
fastavi__: I am trying to write a script which will install some tools.17:29
fastavi__: but without having to do useless things manually.17:30
vi__via apt?17:30
DocScrutinizer06~ $ echo whoami | root17:30
fastaIs root the rootpassword?17:32
DocScrutinizer06escalating powers to root never is a nice thing to do hidden in a script17:32
DocScrutinizer06no, do you think I print my root password here ;-P17:32
fastaDocScrutinizer06: hidden? I am writing the code myself for me.17:32
fastaIt's only 8 chars.17:33
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fastaI don't think it matters whether you broadcast it or not.17:34
DocScrutinizer06even then it's best practice to demand from yourself to enter "root" before you invoke a script that needs root17:34
DocScrutinizer06well, it's not echoing when I type it, so how could I c&p?17:34
vi__DocScrutinizers root password: URWRONG117:35
vi__DocScrutinizer: you are in german617:35
vi__DocScrutinizer: you are in germany?17:35
vi__you know if there is a trading standards office in germany where you go to complain about dodgy shops?17:36
DocScrutinizer06well, you completely miss the detail that my n900 at all asks for a password17:36
DocScrutinizer06yours probably won't17:36
DocScrutinizer06and that's been the only thing I wanted to show17:37
DocScrutinizer06to make fasta aware it's not a good idea to rely on echo xyz|sudo gainroot working in a script17:37
vi__no it is not17:38
vi__however I am sure he is sware of thed risks.17:38
fastaWhich risks?17:38
fastaI am executing my own code.17:38
DocScrutinizer06it's not even about the risks, it's about portability17:38
vi__fasta somone might rewt ur bocks.17:38
fastaBut I don't have any comparable devices to an n900.17:39
fastaIt's designed to be 'portable' to an n900.17:39
DocScrutinizer06the risk already there with sudo gainroot itself, resp with sudoers.d/01root not having PASSWD17:39
vi__fasta: do not worry about it.  DocScrutinizer is just a paranoid nut.17:39
Hurrianfasta, elevate the script from bash, don't elevate script from script17:39
fastaHurrian: I would like to have the scripts stored on a desktop directory.17:40
DocScrutinizer06Hurrian: ++17:40
fastaHurrian: so, now what?17:40
Hurrianwrapper script17:40
fastaWith your method, I need to first write a script to fetch it from the desktop.17:40
fastaAlso, I need to do that for every script I might want to call.17:40
DocScrutinizer06fasta: wtf?!17:41
fastaIn short, not economically sane use of my time.17:41
DocScrutinizer06I *completely* miss your problem17:41
vi__DocScrutinizer: so german trading standards office, do they exist?17:41
fastaDocScrutinizer06: I don't want to store the scripts on the phone.17:41
DocScrutinizer06so ??17:41
fastaOk, well, I could write an executeDesktopScript scriptname script.17:42
DocScrutinizer06set up a proper sshkey pair for root@n900, cat script|ssh root@n90017:42
fastaDocScrutinizer06: well, that's a good solution too.17:43
fastaDocScrutinizer06: in fact, even better.17:43
fastaDocScrutinizer06: I did setup a proper sshkey pair of course.17:43
DocScrutinizer06btw concerning about not storing *scripts* (some kB MAX) on a device with 32GB storage, is....17:43
fastaDocScrutinizer06: that's just for management purposes.17:43
vi__is chem|st german?17:44
vi__chem|st: ping17:44
DocScrutinizer06yep, afaik17:44
vi__perhaps he will know if germany has a trading standards office.17:44
DocScrutinizer06I don't even know what that might be17:45
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vi__where you can make complaints about ships that rip people off.17:45
DocScrutinizer06or the police17:47
DocScrutinizer06for international trade there's still another entity, to settle conflicts with inner-EU trade17:49
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vi__what if I bought somthing from germany and it has turned out to be substandard.17:52
DocScrutinizer06complain at the shop where you bought it17:52
vi__If I give you his address, could you go around to his place and puch him in the dick?17:52
DocScrutinizer06I could, but next week I'm busy ;-P17:53
vi__but what do you do if the shop owner ignores your complaints and refuses to refund your money?17:53
DocScrutinizer06vi__: you're in East?17:54
DocScrutinizer06no problem then, you are actually part of EU, believe it or not (still)17:54
DocScrutinizer06each EU country has an EU trade conflict settlement entity - don't ask me about the name17:55
vi__EU==hooray for propping up shithole countries that forgot to collect any tax for 20 years.17:55
DocScrutinizer06hail hellas17:55
DocScrutinizer06vi__: afaik you have two weeks to send good back without further reasoning, after reception17:57
DocScrutinizer06and if value of goods is >(iirc)30EUR, shop has to even refund you for shipping fee17:58
vi__unfortunatley it has been 3 months.17:59
DocScrutinizer06but first of all, complain @ shop17:59
DocScrutinizer06hmm, that's bad18:00
vi__the shock absorber has just been fitted.18:00
vi__and it is fucked.18:00
DocScrutinizer06so all you got now is your legal warranty18:00
vi__it was supposed to be good.18:00
vi__I paid >wpp euros18:00
vi__I paid >200 euros18:00
DocScrutinizer06still same: complain @ shop, ask for warranty replacement18:01
DocScrutinizer06I know that. All the waiting, all the trouble to order stuff, all the work to fit the part, just to realize it's been futile18:02
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* vi__ has learnt a harsh lesson.18:03
DocScrutinizer06well, shit happens18:03
DocScrutinizer06even with decent shops18:03
vi__Somedays you are the statue, somedays you are the bird.18:03
fastavi__: you'd wish you had nuclear launch capability at such times, right?18:04
DocScrutinizer06I ordered a laptop with all sorts of custom tweaking and accessories. When it arrived it turned out the friggin lenovo proprietary PSU was defect. I mailed and called the shop about it and they sent me a free replacement PSU, one for the mail and one for the phonecall ;-D18:05
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fastaI kind of hate it that these webshops cannot send a replacement part back first.18:06
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fastaI mean before I send out the semi-broken item.18:06
fastaOr are there shops which do this?18:06
fastaFor example with broken mobos.18:06
DocScrutinizer06this shop did - "no, please don't send in the broken PSU. It needs proper disposal for recycling, could you please do that for us?"18:07
fastaDocScrutinizer06: perhaps they know you as some technical "God"?18:07
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DocScrutinizer06definitely not18:07
DocScrutinizer06I explained I tested mains cable -> 230V~. next break: plug to laptop -> 0V18:08
DocScrutinizer06so, I concluded, it's the PSU or cable mounted to PSU that's defect18:09
DocScrutinizer06they sent me two replacements right away18:09
obengdakohi my first time here, i just installed whatsapp using the java oracle deb and the whatsapp deb file, i can't seem to see any messages sent to me, any suggestions18:10
DocScrutinizer06hi obengdako18:10
DocScrutinizer06obengdako: which device?18:11
obengdakohi DocScrutinizer06 nokia n90018:11
DocScrutinizer06so, a) seems you're at the right place here for your question, b) I have no idea and c) wait if somebody else will answer next 2..3h. If not, repeat your question, maybe a bit more prevcise regarding what you did install, and what's the problem/symptoms you encounter18:13
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Estel_fasta, OTOh, I would recommend You to install busybox power, as said...18:16
Estel_this way, Yuo hjave same, consistent tool njo matter if you're just booting and using recovery console...18:16
Estel_or already in fully working system18:16
Estel_also, same task can be done with busybox as well, so installing bash is either laziness - most of the times - that only waste space18:16
DocScrutinizer06AIUI whatsapp is written in java and you isntalled a java runtime thing - oracle?18:17
Estel_or, in some cases, needed for complicated scripts mean to do really, really rarelly needed thing,s that You don't want to re-write18:17
Estel_i.e. things that you will never ever use ;)18:17
DocScrutinizer06some URLs might help, to point to the actual stuff you installed18:17
Estel_writing scripts in bahs for N900 is a PITA - one day, you may want to share it with someone, and now, maintain compatibility18:17
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obengdako hi my first time here, i just installed whatsapp using the java oracle-embedded-jre and the whatsapp-java-alpha  , i can't seem to see any messages sent to me, any suggestions, device n90018:18
DocScrutinizer06or wheter you installed via HildonApplicationManager, and what's the exact names of packages then18:18
Estel_and replacing busybox with bash for good, except boot, is *not* recommended at all18:18
Estel_You never know, what will fail on such system, while it's working for others flawlessly.18:18
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Estel_obengdako, for whatsap questions, we're hitting You @ ear using rusty fork.18:19
fastaDoes a HTC sensation have a builtin FM transmitter also?18:20
Estel_= either search forum for some things ported to n900 without reason, or, beg whatsshit developers to release N900 version, or *prefferrably*, use Jabber18:20
Estel_or how it's called now18:20
fastaLots of people seem to say 'no' and a few say 'yes'.18:20
Estel_fasta, maybe just google for it? How we're supposed to know?18:21
Estel_check official specings18:21
DocScrutinizer06fasta: nfc18:21
fastaEstel_: I did. Mostly uninformed people. Yeah, will do.18:21
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obengdakoEstel_ i don't quite understand18:21
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DocScrutinizer06haha, fine you made me look at chanlogs once again - for some technical reasons I can't see what user estel_ writes18:28
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer06: is that an /ignore type of reason?18:28
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DocScrutinizer06fasta: replacing busybox by busybox-pwoer is the thing not recommended at all. Installing bash on the other hand is a perfectly sane thing to do, don't worry about any nonsensical compatibility issues18:29
DocScrutinizer06jacekowski: yup18:29
DocScrutinizer06fasta: quite obviously relying on other users having installed busybox-power is an insane thing, and you can't specify busybox-pwer in your shebang. You for sure can have a shebang like #!/bin/bash, and that's proper unix way to handle this sort of percieved "incompatibility"18:31
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Estel_fasta, it's your decision what to do. anyway, you might like to search TMO for post/threads of user,s that replaced busybox with bash, and face many, many problems18:33
Estel_DocScrutinizer, would say, that it's fault of poorly written programs/scripts - which also have some emrit behind it - yet, I think that laziness of some users, that dictate them to use bash instead of learning ash, is ever more poor excuse18:34
Estel_despite popular opinion, busybox isn't worse -it's differrent, msot of the times. And "old timers" don't like to change their habits ;)18:34
DocScrutinizer06obengdako: I dunno what Estel_ recommended. If you want to get proper advice here, you need to ask proper questions. A proper question will allow those who want to help to understand precisely what you did. That includes URLs of downloaded packages, of howto webpages you've read, etc18:34
DocScrutinizer06commands you did. just enough so any other user in here can understand what it was you actually did18:35
Estel_I'm strange example of someone, who had contact with ashy first, and bash some times after - bash irritates me as much, as ash irritates most bash users ;)18:35
DocScrutinizer06or simply:18:36
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.18:36
Estel_busybox-power is effort by legendary Maemo developer - iDont - to bring us latest updstream version of busybox18:36
infobotquestion is, like, If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
Estel_and, he succeed - busybox-power is, in fact, upstream version. even more, idon't patches affected upstream releases too.18:36
Estel_busybox-power is one of essential packages for Maemo, no matter what. Of course, again, it's up to You to decide what You want to use. BTW, there is no problem in using BOTH busybox-power and bash18:37
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DocScrutinizer06haha, sometimes chanlogs are really great :-P18:38
DocScrutinizer06fasta: you're NOT supposed to replace stock busybox by ANYTHING, not even busybox-power18:39
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fastaWhat happened to ?18:39
DocScrutinizer06busybox is a core essential part of maemo boot process, replacing it by anything else is foolish. AIUI busybox-power does exactly that, replace busybox18:39
fastaI.e., where can I download a quassel client deb?18:40
fastaOr alternatively instructions to do a cross-compile.18:40
fastaI would prefer a deb.18:41
DocScrutinizer06fasta: in short: install and use whatever shell you prefer best. *NEVER* though you shalt make any other shell default shell18:41
Estel_DocScrutinizer, if You're reading chanlogs so religiously - it's quite funny and a little pathetic, that You ignore me, yet, check every line from chanlog. Souns like kind of masochism ;)18:41
DocScrutinizer06for user (it seems bash as root's default shell is safe)18:41
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Estel_BTW, whinning about busybox-power replacing busybox is poor bullshit, written by someone who actually don't know what busybox-power is18:43
Estel_something also called FUD18:43
Estel_busybox-power incorporates upstream busybox patches - i.e., it's latest upstream version - that ADD funcionality and FIXES bugs, without dropping any things possible in stock busybox18:44
Estel_think about it like cssu, yet, even more compatible.18:44
DocScrutinizer06though I strongly discourrage to do bash default shell for root as well18:44
Estel_(if it wouldn't be due to ideologically biased maintainer, busybox-power would be part of cssu for ages)18:44
DocScrutinizer06and in this context busybox means "the shell and all the 'builtin' commands it comes with" - that's why most unix tools come in gnu-disguise and install under /usr/bin/gnu/*18:46
DocScrutinizer06replacing the busybox symlinks aka alternatives by proper original unix-tools will also result in bootloop18:47
DocScrutinizer06fasta: and obviously you ran into a busybox-power incompatibility/bug in busybox-ls that has potential to also cause bootloop or other severe issues when you dare to replace original busybox by this powa thing18:48
DocScrutinizer06fasta: bottom line: either stick with builtin busybox, or et an *additional* decent shell like described in18:49
infobotit has been said that jrtools is
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils18:50
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Estel_of course DocScrutinizer is spreading FUD, as usual18:52
Estel_<DocScrutinizer06> fasta: and obviously you ran into a busybox-power incompatibility/bug in busybox-ls that has potential to also cause bootloop or other severe issues18:53
Estel_couldn't be more wrong.18:53
andre__and of course Estel_ is bitching about it, as usual.18:56
Estel_andre__, any argument?18:56
DocScrutinizer06andre__: thanks!18:56
Estel_to prove incompatibility and busybox-ls?18:57
Estel_or You're just trolling around?18:57
andre__Estel_, sorry, I don't hand out arguments if you miss any.18:57
Estel_oh, of course18:57
Estel_You sound very reliably ;)18:57
andre__:-*, honey :)18:58
Estel_anyway, there are *no* compatibility problems in busybox-power, at all. There *was* - long time ago - minor issue with SU, but it was fixed as soon as reported.18:58
Estel_such FUD is disregard for hard work iDont put into busybox-power18:58
DocScrutinizer06a simple /whois would teach reasonable adults about supoosed competence18:58
Estel_in fact, it's bastardish disrespect, as - obviously - people criticizing don't have clue about busybox-power at all18:59
andre__Estel_, you're really not in a position to complain about missing disrespect19:00
Estel_not to mean andre__, who, probably, doesn't have a clue about topic of discussion at all, but is trolling just for sake of it ;)19:00
DocScrutinizer06@chanop: please calm channel, please control adultery and insult!19:00
Estel_andre__, fine, put this meaningless sentenc einto Your | and smoke it - as, as usual, you don't have *any* argument to prove Your thesis19:00
andre__Estel_, correct! I just dislike your unfriendly, rude, childish style.19:00
Estel_You're defending FUD about busybox-powe,r yet, You don't even know what we're talking abouty.19:00
Estel_DocScrutinizer, please consider fact, that any chanel abuse form Your side will be Your last action as channel operator.19:01
DocScrutinizer06s/adultery and//19:01
infobotDocScrutinizer06 meant: @chanop: please calm channel, please control  insult!19:01
Estel_we're discussing about merits19:01
andre__Estel_, if you had arguments, you would have a better and more convincing way to communicate them. My meta-conclusions, so to say.19:01
andre__Estel_, no problem, I also have channel op rights ;)19:01
Estel_of course. as soon as anyone is going to make any *argument* why busybox-power is incompatible...19:01
Estel_i'll gladly respon in tech answer19:02
Estel_or, agree, if it will be proved to be true19:02
Estel_instead, we have pathetic troll, that appear here out of nowhere, saying "xx is bitching again", without any interest in actual topic of discussion19:02
Estel_yea, cheer19:02
Estel_it's all You can do, anyway19:02
andre__Estel_, true, I'm just interested in some basic etiquette that you miss - you've shown that often enough.19:03
Estel_I'm friendly for everyone, who like to have a civilized, merit discussion, and I don't plan to be friendly for trolls, jumping here and calling names, just because there is occasion to.19:03
andre__and that's harmful for this community.19:03
andre__yeah. sure.19:03
DocScrutinizer06andre__: we're not supposed to act against Estel_as soon as his insults are diectly aimed against us (chanops)?19:03
Estel_well, so enjoy fact that I've same opinion about You, + your complete lack of merit - writing for sake of writing.19:03
DocScrutinizer06sane policy indeed19:04
Estel_DocScrutinizer, Your constant alusions to abusing chanop, jsut because it's what You would liek to do now - yet, are to scarred to try - are ensuring me, that cleaning IRC management is even more urgent think, that I though before.19:05
Estel_You may be considered main (by terms of availability) chanop here, yet, You completely fail to diverse Your persopnal disagreements with users from Your chanop duties.19:05
Estel_just for the sake of it, I'm going to quote those lines about "suppoosed" incompatibility in busybox-power and ask iDont - busybox-power developer - about it19:08
Estel_after all, it's harmful for the community, that such FUD is spread on official channel, by chanop (that mention 6 or 7 times during discussion, that he IS chanop)19:08
andre__Let's admit that we all 3 have ego problems, as a start :)19:09
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DocScrutinizer06popcorn! anybody want popcorn?19:09
andre__I could offer a beer from the minibar too!19:10
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* DocScrutinizer06 summons crashanddie19:25
DocScrutinizer06we'd need some of his tough chan moderation nowadays19:25
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fastaWhen I play a .mp4 file with kmplayer, the video lags behind the audio by a lot.20:36
fastaIt seems that it cannot keep up.20:36
fastaIs there something better?20:37
fastaAlso, in kmplayer, how can I delete something from favourites?20:37
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fastaOr is there some app to autoconvert to avi?20:39
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: (something better) I think the default medaiplayer does a decent job20:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: the media player says it doesn't understand the way the file is organized.20:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: i.e. it doesn't play at all.20:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: I cp'ed the file to my desktop and can now see the codec, I hope.20:45
DocScrutinizer05there's a couple of additional gtreamer codec pkgs20:45
DocScrutinizer05might help20:45
fastaDocScrutinizer05:  VIDEO:  [H264]  1280x720  24bpp  90000.000 fps  11965.5 kbps (1460.6 kbyte/s)20:46
DocScrutinizer05though I'm not sure if maemo-mediaplayer would profit20:46
fastaDocScrutinizer05: any chance that will work?20:46
DocScrutinizer05hmm, 1280*720 is quite a bit20:46
DocScrutinizer05honestly I don't know20:46
fastaDocScrutinizer05: is there any hw accel. for that?20:47
fastaDocScrutinizer05: it's the kind of video modern phones generate.20:47
DocScrutinizer05usually there should, yes20:47
fastaIn this case not, like I said.20:48
fastaSearching for codec in HAM => nothing20:48
DocScrutinizer05there are others around that are way more knowlegable than me regarding this media stuff20:48
DocScrutinizer05apt-cache search gstreamer0.10-plugins20:49
fastaI didn't have those.20:53
fastaNow I do.20:53
fastaAny reason to believe it makes a difference?20:54
fastaThat made no difference.20:54
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: one of those gstreamer packages is broken now21:07
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: honestly, I'm not competent regarding video codecs etc21:09
DocScrutinizer05all I seem to know is mediaplayer is using mafw21:09
fastaDocScrutinizer05: that's apt-get -f install output now21:09
fastaSo, basically it cannot install because some other package was already installed.21:10
fastaBut I also cannot remove it, because lots of other stuff depends on it.21:10
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fastaReal nice.21:10
DocScrutinizer05medai application framework21:10
fastaDocScrutinizer05: ?21:10
fastaDocScrutinizer05: but regarding apt-get specifics?21:11
DocScrutinizer05no idea, sorry21:11
fastaAll I would like now is to get it in a sane state again.21:11
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: I fixed it myself.21:12
fastaDocScrutinizer05: but what do you do when you get a high-bit rate video from someone?21:13
fastaDocScrutinizer05: just don't play it on your phone?21:13
DocScrutinizer05if you find the definitive answer to this question, please let me know21:14
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DocScrutinizer05AIUI the decoding of high-bitrate HD video is quite heavy and thus can't get done on N900, even if you would assume it to scale to N900 screen/video compatible format after decoding21:16
DocScrutinizer05can't get done in realtime, that is21:16
fastaWell, I wouldn't mind waiting, as long as it's done in the background.21:17
DocScrutinizer05I think there are quite a number of transcoders available, that would process like a few seconds per minute, and eventually provide a 480*800 video file21:18
DocScrutinizer05I never looked into all that21:18
DocScrutinizer05not even on desktop PC21:19
fastaHandbrake also doesn't compile out of the box.21:19
fastaI wonder what people find so hard about creating something that works on generic Linux.21:19
fastaFrom my experience it's pretty easy.21:19
DocScrutinizer05who's finding what?21:24
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DocScrutinizer05dang, I already thought looking at chanlog would help I understand why you post that statement. But there's no hidden statement claiming "it's not a simple thing to create working stuff on generic linux"21:29
fastaDocScrutinizer05: the people who release Handbrake source code.21:32
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: (regarding what to do when somebody sends you high-bitrate video) either the one sending this to you thought you should watch it on a 54" HD screen, or it's been a noob who sent it. In the latter case I tend to process on it like I do with inadvertedly sent in .doc files or HTML-only mails. Reject and/or delete21:38
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: well, the words of the n00b would probably be 'buy a decent phone then' ;)22:38
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DocScrutinizer05noobs alrready asked me if I don't finally want to get a smartphone instead my Nokia N90022:39
robbiethe1stBut why?22:40
robbiethe1stWho wants a /smartphone/ anyway?22:40
robbiethe1stSeems silly. a Micro-PC(with phone functionality) is /far/ better.22:40
freemangordonbut wouldn't it make you smarter(smartphone I mean)? :P22:41
robbiethe1stNah, it /steals/ your smarts.22:41
robbiethe1stIt is smart so you don't have to be.22:41
fastaBut if you jailbreak an android phone, can't you also just put some random OS on it?22:41
fastaE.g. Ubuntu.22:41
robbiethe1stNot really.22:42
fastaI thought Ubuntu was trying to do those kinds of things.22:42
robbiethe1stTrying, yes. But so far, I've not seen something as good as Maemo22:42
freemangordonAFAIK ubuntu has only OMAP3/4 builds (besides x86)22:42
robbiethe1stBetween closed driver blobs, Ubuntu aiming for a hybrid design that still runs Android at the phone level...22:43
freemangordonBTW guys thumb2 season is open
fastaI think the hard parts of a phone work really good in Maemo, but the software isn't really _that_ great.22:44
robbiethe1stMaby when Allwinner comes out with an A9 derivitive, we'll have a better solution - Their A10(which is a Cortex A8 derivitive) is an excellent chip, OSS friendly.22:44
Sc0rpiusI wonder why my browser has become slow with time22:44
fastaor rather on an n900.22:44
robbiethe1stNah, hardware's lacking with the N90022:44
Sc0rpiusI mean I type a URL in microB and it takes a long time even to start DNSing it and downloading it22:44
Sc0rpiusit wasn't like that when my phone was new :(22:44
freemangordonSc0rpius: the same here, very strange22:44
Sc0rpiusI hope it doesn't have something to do with CSSU...22:45
freemangordoni've cleaned all of the offline storage, no use22:45
freemangordonshouldn't have22:45
fastarobbiethe1st: sure, it's underpowered, but it doesn't seem to have major bugs.22:45
robbiethe1stPersonally, I've been running OC'd to 900mhz, with PR1.3 and swappolube; helps emencely22:45
fastaswappolube, what a name.22:45
freemangordonmy syster has CSSU too, microb is fast on her n90022:45
robbiethe1stThat is true. Only real HW bug is the USB port.22:45
freemangordonSc0rpius: though I am not sure whether she has adblock installed22:46
Sc0rpiusI do have it installed22:46
freemangordonme too22:46
Sc0rpiusbut I have always have it installed22:46
Sc0rpiussince I bought the phone22:46
Sc0rpiusit was one of the first things I installed22:47
freemangordonthe same here, but that was first that come to my mind22:47
Sc0rpiusyou wiped history and stuff?22:47
freemangordonno difference22:47
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freemangordonand I can bet it has something to do with DNS22:48
freemangordonbut NFC what22:48
robbiethe1stTry editing /etc/resolv.conf, comment out everything and add22:48
robbiethe1stto a new line22:48
freemangordonrobbiethe1st: there is no /etc/resolv.conf22:48
freemangordonit is dnsmasq.conf22:49
robbiethe1stMay be a CSSU thing then22:49
freemangordonor KP?22:49
robbiethe1stMine has a resolv.conf22:50
robbiethe1stNope, I run KP22:50
freemangordonRead what I wrote, please22:50
freemangordonre my sisters n90022:50
robbiethe1stBugs don't always act the same way22:51
freemangordonIt was me to setup her n900, almost the same as mine (CSSU-T, KP, swap on uSD, etc,etc)22:51
Sc0rpiusit's not DNS related.  If I type the URL of my LAN web server using the IP it still takes an awful time to start connecting22:52
freemangordonshe uses different mobile network though22:52
robbiethe1stHave you tried restarting microb? run killall browser; killall browserd22:52
Sc0rpiusI tried even rebooting the phone22:52
freemangordonrobbiethe1st: You can bet me and Sc0rpius even rebooted22:53
Sc0rpiusbut it takes LONG time, like 40 seconds or up to a minute to start connecting22:53
freemangordonthe same here22:53
Sc0rpiusafter it connects, it downloads fine22:53
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robbiethe1stDon't have the problem myself, but I have had it seemingly not connect occasionally22:53
robbiethe1stBut I've never let it sit for 40sec to see if it does22:54
robbiethe1stI'll just killall browser/browserd, and when the app restarts it works fine22:54
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* freemangordon starts tcpdump on usb022:54
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DocScrutinizer05 /etc/resov.conf is meant to point to *always*22:58
DocScrutinizer05dnsmasq does the real work22:59
DocScrutinizer05regarding delay on even stratup: that's exactly what I experience on this Laptop with fresh Linux install as well, already wondered if it's related to Ipv6 or sth23:00
DocScrutinizer05exctla those 40s Sc0rpius sees23:00
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: could be23:00
DocScrutinizer05I already tried to whireshark the issue, no results yet23:01
MohammadAG128.0.0.1? :P23:01
freemangordonthat is second localhost :P23:02
Sc0rpius/etc/resolv.conf should point to in Maemo???23:02
Sc0rpiusno way there's no named in Maemo.23:03
freemangordonNokia-N900:~# ps | grep named23:03
freemangordon 3137 root      2088 S    grep named23:03
Sc0rpiusbut it works though...23:03
Sc0rpiusAddress 1: Nokia-N900-51-123:04
Sc0rpiusName:      www.sun.com23:04
Sc0rpiusAddress 1:
Sc0rpiusbut that doesn't fix the issue, it still takes time to connect23:05
Sc0rpiusI really wonder what it is...23:05
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freemangordonhmm, I am seeing a massive UDP packet bursts to tenths of ip dresses23:06
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freemangordonvery strange, it takes exactly 15 seconds for the start of the bursts and first SYN to TMO23:09
Sc0rpius37 seconds here and browserd was +90% CPU during all that time23:11
freemangordonyep, almost the same here23:11
freemangordongoing to check if "clear private data" actually clears the database23:12
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat /etc/resolv.conf23:15
freemangordonaah, my bad, the same here23:15
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Sc0rpiustry this:23:16
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ps|grep dns23:16
DocScrutinizer05 1650 nobody    2160 S    /usr/sbin/dnsmasq -k -i lo -a -z23:16
Sc0rpiusOptions -> AddOns -> disable adblock, restart microb (there's a button for that)23:16
freemangordoni've tried it, no luck23:16
freemangordondid it help you?23:16
Sc0rpiusyeah same here23:16
Sc0rpiuswell maybe a little23:17
Sc0rpiusit definitely went down from 40 seconds to 523:17
Sc0rpiusthough 5 is still high hehe23:18
freemangordonhmm, let me trey once again then23:18
DocScrutinizer05no adblock though on my Lenovo T500 in konqueror23:18
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freemangordonSc0rpius: it is deffinitely adblockplus :(23:20
freemangordonor whatever it is called23:20
DocScrutinizer05and actually I don't encounter this annoying 40s delay not always, but rather seemingly on a somewhat random basis23:20
Sc0rpiusyeah looks like that23:20
Sc0rpiusDocScrutinizer05, are you using AdBlock?23:21
freemangordonmore bugs, gimme more bugs :D:D:D23:21
DocScrutinizer05though, I dunno what got installed on this fresh suse21.123:21
Sc0rpiusdon't you wanna be a good soul and port AdBlock to microB in a lightweight manner? :)23:21
freemangordonSc0rpius: today when I tried to disable adblock, I was connected to a crappy 2g network ;)23:22
freemangordonSc0rpius: me?23:22
Sc0rpiusthe first time I tried it I didn't clear private data23:22
Sc0rpiusso I'm not sure if it's a mix of the two23:22
Sc0rpiusyeah you23:22
Sc0rpiusyou want bugs I'm giving you a nice project23:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm quite sure it's related to some rogue URL or IP or script embedded in some pages23:22
freemangordonsome crappy JS?23:22
DocScrutinizer05something like that23:23
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that happens when openning TMO23:23
freemangordonwith JS disabled in browaser23:23
DocScrutinizer05sometimes dely, usually not23:23
DocScrutinizer05on Laptop, all my comments are related to x86 suse12.1 linux23:24
freemangordonhmm, lets ask google23:25
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, I'm missing the direct setting for java, JS, and cache policy under konqueror extras23:30
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DocScrutinizer05anyway I just disabled java and had no delay for 10 pages I opened since. Not enough to claim any relevance23:31
freemangordonSc0rpius: WTF? patterns.ini that comes with adblockplus package is 78k, the current one is about 560k23:41
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ThreeMSc0rpius = the "Yappari" Sc0rpius?23:47
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Sc0rpiusyes I am23:54
Sc0rpiusthat's an interesting finding freemangordon23:55
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Sc0rpiusdidn't knew it actually updates itself23:55
freemangordonWOW, I've forgotten how fast is microb, damn, stupid ADP23:55
freemangordonSc0rpius: yeah, didn't know it as well23:56
DocScrutinizer05so... ?23:57
Sc0rpiusyeah it's pretty fast.23:57
* DocScrutinizer05 likes to pop stack and move return code to storage23:58
DocScrutinizer05means: any results?23:58
freemangordonso.. ADB puts microb on its knees23:58
Sc0rpiuswe could try with a tiny patterns.ini version23:59
Sc0rpiusbut I dunno, the difference is really huge23:59
freemangordonalreadyt tried it, the one from distribution23:59
Sc0rpiusit actually even behaves faster with all those flash ads with animations than with ADB23:59
DocScrutinizer05just that I fail to see how I could have ADB on my suse linux in konqueror. How would I check that?23:59
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Sc0rpiusKonqueror? I don't think that's capable of having ADB23:59
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freemangordonaon startp it's been renamed to .bak, and a new one with only 178 bytes was created23:59

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