IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-06-08

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jacekowski	there is a table in nolo that translates those values	00:01
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jacekowski	http://pastebin.com/09j11xHR	00:02
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jacekowski	so for example 0x1 in register would translate to 0x10 in nolo which means por	00:06
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jacekowski	8=3	00:07
jacekowski	0x10=4 - 32wd_to	00:08
wmarone	32wd_to... my old nemesis...	00:08
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Pali	> so for example 0x1 in register... which register?	00:10
jacekowski	PRM_RSTST	00:11
jacekowski	rest of them is bit more complicated ANDS.W R0, R4, #0x20	00:11
jacekowski	because i'm not sure what ANDS is doing	00:11
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Pali	I do not understand... how is 0x1 transtaled into por?	00:14
jacekowski	there is function in nolo that does it	00:14
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Pali	ah now I see from that log, that "DCD 0x10" line means arm code "00000001" which is "andeq r0, r0, r1"	00:18
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jacekowski	no	00:20
jacekowski	basicaly there is a function in nolo that starts atRAM:80403EF0	00:21
jacekowski	that function takes that PRM_RSTST register	00:21
jacekowski	comapres it agains that other magic value to check for that cold reset bug	00:21
jacekowski	or whatever it is	00:21
jacekowski	and then translates the number	00:21
jacekowski	0x1 into 0x10	00:22
jacekowski	0x8 into 0x3	00:22
jacekowski	0x10 into 0x4	00:22
jacekowski	and then those numbers are looked up in table i've pased	00:22
jacekowski	pasted	00:22
jacekowski	to give you final bootreason	00:22
Pali	ok	00:23
jacekowski	+ there is r&d flag that will force bootreason to be always pwr_key	00:23
jacekowski	it's mater of simple switch statement to replace that	00:24
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Pali	0x8 = 3 - Reserved for non-GP devices.	00:25
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jacekowski	nah	00:26
jacekowski	0x8=0b1000	00:27
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jacekowski	hmmmm	00:27
jacekowski	yeah	00:27
Pali	0x10 = 16 - MPU_WD_RST - MPU watchdog reset event	00:27
jacekowski	hmmm	00:27
jacekowski	sec_vio	00:27
jacekowski	security violation?	00:27
Pali	maybe for hs mode	00:28
Pali	0x10 into 0x4 which is 32wd_to	00:28
Pali	so really watchdog reset	00:28
jacekowski	yeah	00:30
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jacekowski	later it's doing and and shift to that register and comparing it	00:30
jacekowski	but i'm not sure how ANDS exactly work	00:30
Pali	google	00:30
jacekowski	hmm	00:33
jacekowski	0x20 - 2?	00:33
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Pali	bit 5 - Reserved for non-GP devices.	00:34
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jacekowski	hmm, that's SW reset	00:38
jacekowski	if 0x20 is set	00:38
jacekowski	+ then there is sw_reset reason encoded in other bits	00:38
jacekowski	0x200 - 0x11	00:40
Pali	0x20 = 0b100000 = 5th bit - Reserved for non-GP devices.	00:40
jacekowski	that would be all	00:41
jacekowski	if it's anything else it's set as unknown	00:41
jacekowski	hmm, unless	00:41
Pali	0x200 = bit 9 - ICEPICK_RST - IcePick reset event. This is a source of warm reset initiated by the emulation.	00:42
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Pali	ok, thanks much	00:43
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Pali	jacekowski, can you find how nolo generate MEM atag? On some N900 it generate 2 MEM atags and on some only one MEM atag	00:44
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Pali	see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84560	00:44
jacekowski	hmmm	00:44
Pali	it generate same nolo version	00:44
jacekowski	yeah, i've seen that	00:45
jacekowski	there is a lot more bootreasons but those are based on twl4030 data somehow	00:45
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Pali	how nolo decide if it will generate two or one MEM atag?	00:46
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Pali	seems that all other atags are static (or at least same for all tested n900 from that thread)	00:47
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jacekowski	dunno	00:50
jacekowski	it looks like that is HW generated	00:51
jacekowski	or at least 1st stage noloxldr	00:51
Pali	on tmo is 2 different dumps from two n900 with hw rev 2104 britain	00:52
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jacekowski	i mean, it depends on value passed to noloscnd in R4	00:52
Pali	and what has R4? some info which tell xloader to nolo?	00:53
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Pali	also x-loader is same for all 21 and 22 revs	00:53
jacekowski	yes	00:53
Pali	oh	00:54
jacekowski	but it looks like it's generating same atags anyways	00:54
jacekowski	it covers same physical addresses	00:54
jacekowski	but in some cases it's divided into two atags	00:54
jacekowski	i wouldn't be worried about that	00:55
Pali	I do not know what is linux kernel doing with MEM atag	00:55
Pali	is kernel doing some initialization for each mem atag?	00:56
jacekowski	no	00:57
jacekowski	all kernel is doing is expecting to see ready memory under those addresses	00:57
Pali	it call function add_physical_memory	00:58
jacekowski	yeah, but there is nothing to init physical memory in there	00:58
jacekowski	memory is supposed to be initialised by then	00:59
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Pali	for arm it is function arm_add_memory (not add_physical_memory)	01:00
Pali	http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/arm/kernel/setup.c#L672	01:00
jacekowski	http://www.simtec.co.uk/products/SWLINUX/files/booting_article.html	01:00
jacekowski	nothing serious there	01:01
jacekowski	4. Configuring the system's memory	01:02
jacekowski	The bootloader is expected to find and initialise all RAM that the kernel will use for volatile data storage in the system. It performs this in a machine dependent manner. It may use internal algorithms to automatically locate and size all RAM, or it may use knowledge of the RAM in the machine, or any other method the bootloader designer sees fit.	01:02
jacekowski	In all cases it should be noted that all setup is performed by the bootloader. The kernel should have no knowledge of the setup or configuration of the RAM within a system other than that provided by the bootloader. The use of machine_fixup() within the kernel is most definitely not the correct place for this. There is a clear distinction between the bootloaders responsibility and the kernel in this area.	01:02
jacekowski	The kernel will coalesce blocks passed to it if they are contiguous physical regions.	01:02
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jacekowski	so kernel doesn't care about that memory	01:03
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Pali	ok, so it is same it it pass 2 mem or one mem (if they are continuous)	01:03
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Pali	jacekowski, thanks for all!	01:12
Pali	now going offline, bye	01:12
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kke	i have two different mounts for /home/user, how come if i modify the desktop or email accounts, the changes affect both of them, no matter which one is mounted?	02:16
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Hurrian	kke, how can that happen?	02:38
Hurrian	for example, you have one filesystem on /home/user, mmcblk0p2	02:38
Hurrian	then you mount mmcblk1p2 on it	02:38
Hurrian	unless you're using unionfs, it's going to start writing to 1p2	02:39
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kke	dont know, thats really strange	02:43
kke	the other fs is crypted and cant be accidentally mounted	02:44
kke	something saves something somewhere else or what the heck	02:46
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DocScrutinizer05	kke: such settings quite usually are cached in the process and just written back to file on program exit or/and other occasions	03:22
DocScrutinizer05	means: if you're umounting the one fs and mounting the other, while the process using the settings is active, you're quite likely doing a hidden copy	03:22
DocScrutinizer05	for desktop that's almost inevitable as desktop will quite likely run when system is up so you could mount and such fs	03:23
DocScrutinizer05	so something=app saves something=settings somewhere else=in program cache	03:26
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DocScrutinizer05	well, s/cache/variables/	03:41
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DocScrutinizer05	kke: e.g. starhash-enabler needs to kill -9 the dialer app for that reason, after editing the config file	03:44
DocScrutinizer05	might work for desktop as well	03:46
DocScrutinizer05	nfc about email accounts	03:46
DocScrutinizer05	try stopping modest for good, before switching to alternative fs	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	or alternatively kill -9 modest after switching fs	03:48
* DocScrutinizer05 hears kke thinking "WTF?!" while realizing that switching from unecrypted to encrypted isn't exactly a simple task, after system booted up		03:50
kke	DocScrutinizer05: that happens even when i reboot to the other mount	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	no, it already had happened when you do that	03:51
Hurrian	you shouldn't be doing that, instead, you should change the mount in rcS-late	03:51
DocScrutinizer05	exactly	03:51
DocScrutinizer05	the copying is done whenever you switch between the two fs while all the apps with config are already started	03:52
* SpeedEvil thinks of a cryptoloop type module that understands and progressively encrypts the underlying device.		03:52
DocScrutinizer05	so unless you boot to an empty encrypted fs, you already did the copy before	03:52
kke	its impossible	03:53
kke	when im in the unencrypted version, there should be no way to write to the encrypted version	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	there isn't	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	didn't you read what I tried to explain to you?	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	how are you preparing your encrypted fs?	03:54
DocScrutinizer05	how do you manage to make it diffetrent from the original that is not encrypted?	03:54
kke	during boot	03:55
kke	if i enter the passphrase i get an encrypted home	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	when you boot to encrypted, change some mail account there, then powerdown, boot to unencrypted and the mail account already is there, then I dunno	03:56
kke	yep and the other way around too	03:56
kke	trange	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	I'd guess you're mounting your encrypted fs after processes like hildon-desktop and maodest get started	03:57
DocScrutinizer05	esp check gconfd, as a lot of stuff is stored there	03:59
DocScrutinizer05	and I guess gconfd is started rather early in boot	03:59
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if that shite is actally called gconfd		04:00
DocScrutinizer05	actually*	04:00
DocScrutinizer05	duh, and never forget about nasty hidden stuff 'under' the mount, a frequent source of irritations, headscratching and strange effects, when users do anything on a device with activated mass storage mode	04:02
DocScrutinizer05	you could see same effects for mountpoint dir of /home	04:03
DocScrutinizer05	the real fun stuff: file handles to files under the mountpoint will still work, even while the file itself got hidden by the mount	04:04
DocScrutinizer05	at least I guess they do	04:05
DocScrutinizer05	it's an educated guess though, as e.g. syslog can even write to files already renamed or completely deleted	04:06
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DocScrutinizer05	lsof\|grep gconfd	04:11
DocScrutinizer05	none of the gconf database aka registry files is open. They all get opened when needed and closed after reading, modifying	04:12
DocScrutinizer05	the rest of the time values are stored in gconfd-2 memory	04:12
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iluminator101	can you upgrade the chip in n900?	05:18
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robbiethe1st	no	05:24
iluminator101	thats what i gathered from web search too	05:25
Hurrian	boards are designed for only one SoC, don't try	05:25
Hurrian	have you /seen/ an omap3530 chip?	05:25
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Hurrian	i highly doubt a person can even lift the onenand sitting on top of the 3430 and resolder it	05:26
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robbiethe1st	But you can clock yours up to 1.15ghz, if you're willing to deal with unknown life	05:37
robbiethe1st	(need to overvoltage most chips to get it stable, but)	05:37
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ebzzry	hi! what is the default min and max freq of maemo5?	05:40
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int_ua	Any Blender users?	05:42
robbiethe1st	Uh, 125/600	05:43
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int_ua	I've updated accelBlend to a usable state, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76991	05:44
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Hurrian	~seen Estel^	06:57
infobot	estel^ <~Estel@178.180.151.251.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 17h 34m 1s ago, saying: 'teotwaki, LOL'.	06:57
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Estel_	Hi Hurrian, whats up?	08:51
Estel_	rather search me per Estel_, Estel^ is just backup nick	08:52
Estel_	Pali, considering work on RE NOLO You're doing with jacekowski, could we expect U-Boot replacing NOLO totally soon? ;()	08:52
Estel_	s/;()/;)/	08:53
Estel_	I know it's about mem atag, not replacement, but it seems, that You're getting info about how NOLO works, in details	08:53
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[DarkGUNMAN]	morning all	11:43
vi_	goodmorning.	11:43
vi_	You geordie!	11:44
* vi_ loves a bit o' nukie broon.		11:44
vi_	Have you seen the guy on the forum asking if he can connect the wires of his charger directly to his battery terminals.	11:45
jacekowski	~stats	11:45
infobot	Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 73 modifications, 464 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 302 commands. I have been awake for 9d 4h 30m 28s this session, and currently reference 118598 factoids. I'm using about 24512 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 2554.35/56.2 child 0/0	11:45
jacekowski	~channelstats	11:45
jacekowski	hmm	11:45
vi_	>100000 factoids!	11:45
vi_	~moron	11:45
infobot	methinks moron is someone that types long lines starting with "infobot"	11:45
vi_	~moron vi_	11:45
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teotwaki	~rape vi_	11:47
* infobot takes vi_ behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams		11:47
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vi_	that is grim.	11:48
vi_	~teabag teotwaki	11:49
* infobot invites teotwaki to join in yet another mindless gripe session		11:49
vi_	Wrong kind of teabag infobot you doofus.	11:49
vi_	~factoids	11:50
infobot	factoids are information that infobot can learn and then reply with. "/msg infobot help" for more info.	11:50
vi_	~teste teotwaki	11:50
vi_	~testes teotwaki	11:50
vi_	~gonad teotwaki	11:50
teotwaki	~slap vi_	11:51
* infobot slaps vi_, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		11:51
teotwaki	~lameometer vi_	11:51
infobot	'vi_' is 0.000% lame, teotwaki	11:51
teotwaki	cool	11:51
teotwaki	~lameometer r00t\|home	11:51
infobot	'r00t\|home' is 98.830% lame, teotwaki	11:51
vi_	wait.	11:51
vi_	How are these figures calculated?	11:52
teotwaki	amount of weird chars in a nickname	11:52
vi_	~lameometer teotwaki	11:52
infobot	'teotwaki' is 0.000% lame, vi_	11:52
teotwaki	0	11:52
teotwaki	~lameometer f4gg0ts4th4w1n	11:52
infobot	'f4gg0ts4th4w1n' is 59.000% lame, teotwaki	11:52
teotwaki	~lameometer ~~\|\|"£ife	11:52
infobot	'~~\|\|"£ife' is 99.963% lame, teotwaki	11:52
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[DarkGUNMAN]	hello vi_	11:59
[DarkGUNMAN]	yes I am geordie, and yeah it is mental he's wiring up the charger directly!	12:01
[DarkGUNMAN]	unfortunately newcastle brown ale isn't the pure stuff anymore since it's produced in tadcaster noew :(	12:03
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[DarkGUNMAN]	..and I'm annoyed I haven't managed to fix the usb port	12:08
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[DarkGUNMAN]	sod it	12:10
[DarkGUNMAN]	vi_ you been meddling much with compcache?	12:12
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vi_	Darkchaos: yes I have...	12:14
[DarkGUNMAN]	recent settings have been working okay to a point, so I'm messing with diskspace reported / actual memory used to try and get swap to run soley in RAM	12:14
vi_	I have tried that.	12:15
vi_	There is _just_ not enough RAM.	12:15
Hurrian	DarkGUNMAN, that's not happening, ever	12:15
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Hurrian	unless you only use N900 for calls and SMS, it's eventually going to OOM	12:15
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* vi_ would happily take a CPU hit for higher compcache compression.		12:18
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-pratchett.freenode.net- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup		12:19
[DarkGUNMAN]	disksize_kb=524288 memlimit_kb=65536 seems to satisfy maemo there is enough diskspace, but 64Mb before compression is too low before cpu goes mental. Gonna try some other settings later just for the hell of it once the batter is charged up.....	12:20
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vi_	[DarkGUNMAN]: you have my attention...	12:46
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[DarkGUNMAN]	vi_ to change ramzswap on the hop without reboot, swapoff /dev/ramzswap0, rmmod /lib/modules/current/ramzswap.ko, insmod /lib/modules/current/ramzswap.ko disksize_kb=524288 memlimit_kb=163840, swapon /dev/ramzswap0	12:55
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[DarkGUNMAN]	memlimit sets the ram level to use before compression, afterwhich cpu goes crazy until hthe program passing the memlimit is closed, then it seems to return to normal	12:56
[DarkGUNMAN]	trying multiples of 1.5, no crashes	12:56
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dafox	'cpu goes crazy'?	13:03
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vi_	dafox: kswapd, the process that deals with the swapping goes nuts swapping shit left and right/	13:07
dafox	so only the program actually using lots of ram is affected?	13:08
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mrcarrot	Is there any way to change the encoding in the terminal to latin-1? Or any alternative to osso-xterm that can be installed and allowing latin-1?	13:11
mrcarrot	n810 had this feature	13:12
mrcarrot	I need a terminal that still will give Ctrl, Esc, Tab, Page up, Page down easily	13:13
DocScrutinizer05	~chaninfo	13:13
infobot	123/123 channels, 5025 users, 3643 unique: #debian/1195, #kde/372, #gsoc/282, #maemo/274, #meego/203, #asterisk/167, #harmattan/166, #oe/145, #wowuidev/141, #webos-internals/121, #wowace/119, #openmoko/93, #wowhead/90, #openmoko-cdevel/73, #uclibc/72, #utah/64, #htc-linux/63, #arm-netbook/62, #n9/60, #tomcat/60, #diablofans/59, #bzflag/58, #edev/57, #qi-hardware/56, #curseforge/55, #asterisk-dev/46, #maemo-ssu/44, #flow3/44, #elinux/38, ...	13:13
DocScrutinizer05	~chaninfo #maemo	13:14
infobot	On #maemo, there have been 1 Ban, 2 Deops, 2274 Joins, 2 Kicks, 2 Ops, 68 Parts, 6943 PublicMsgs and 2209 SignOffs. At the moment, 1 Voice, 1 Opped and 274 Total. turl has said the most with a total of 849 messages.	13:14
mrcarrot	I am using my n900 very often to do ssh into a computer with latin1	13:15
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vi_	I thought UTF-8 > latin1?	13:19
mrcarrot	vi_: no, it can not handle Scandinavian characters, like åäö	13:19
Veggen	uh...utf-8 can handle scandinavian characters.	13:20
mrcarrot	yes, but not from systems with latin1	13:20
mrcarrot	it is not backward compatible to latin1	13:20
Veggen	...not in the same way as UTF-8, that is correct :)	13:20
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* mgedmin thinks switching that legacy system to utf-8 would be a better time investment		13:22
mrcarrot	To me it looks like the most important function (the terminal) is only half made in n900 :(	13:22
mrcarrot	mgedmin: The remote system is OpenBSD (which still uses latin1)	13:23
mgedmin	O.O	13:23
mgedmin	in 2012? latin1?	13:23
DocScrutinizer05	hi mgedmin	13:23
* mgedmin waves		13:23
mrcarrot	Does anyone know about a luit package for n900? It would solve the problem	13:23
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if ssh devels haven't thought about the situation when destination platform has a different encoding than local xterm		13:26
mrcarrot	DocScrutinizer05: Maybe because the UNIX philosophy is to do only one thing, and that well. OpenSSH is developed by the OpenBSD team, and OpenBSD includes luit for converting between encodings	13:29
mrcarrot	DocScrutinizer05: You can use luit as a wrapper for ssh.	13:29
DocScrutinizer05	aaah, I see	13:30
Hurrian	mrcarrot, have you considered running openssh inside easy-debian?	13:30
DocScrutinizer05	so how hard could it get to build luit for fremantle?	13:31
mrcarrot	Hurrian: can I still use osso-xterm? I mean, the normal terminals makes it hard to press things like ESC	13:31
vi_	mrcarrot: You could use xterm and map esc, tab, etc on you keyboard/	13:32
vi_	^.	13:32
Hurrian	mrcarrot, "sudo debian" gives you all of debian inside osso-xterm	13:32
DocScrutinizer05	check wiki "customizing maemo"->"keymap"	13:32
mrcarrot	Hurrian: thanks	13:32
mrcarrot	Hurrian: that will be the solution!	13:32
vi_	[DarkGUNMAN]: I think memlimit_kb is only used when you have a backing swap.	13:33
vi_	AFAI there is somthing broken with backing swap in our compcache.	13:33
vi_	You would need to ask FMG.	13:34
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vi_	There fore, only disksize_kb parameter is used.	13:34
DocScrutinizer05	tab is ctrl-i anyway	13:35
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	13:35
vi_	HOLY	13:35
vi_	SHIT.	13:36
Hurrian	vi_, not really "broken", but "extremely, unusably slow"	13:36
vi_	I did not know of this ctrl-i	13:36
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: lol	13:36
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vi_	DocScrutinizer05: after I spent days remapping my 'board.	13:36
vi_	Hurrian: Does anyone know why it is slow?	13:36
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: is there one for activating the pointer for highlighting text?	13:37
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: so what other key-combo would you map <tab< to, then?	13:37
DocScrutinizer05	<tab>	13:37
vi_	I have blue+return==tab	13:37
DocScrutinizer05	YAY	13:37
vi_	shift+backspace==escape	13:38
DocScrutinizer05	well...	13:38
vi_	blue+arrows=page up/down+home/end.	13:38
DocScrutinizer05	esc is ctrl-[ or sth, not really convenient to press on N900 kbd ;-D	13:38
vi_	I have the entire 4th level populated with all the special characters + F1-F11	13:39
DocScrutinizer05	\o/	13:39
DocScrutinizer05	cool	13:39
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DocScrutinizer05	F11 is actually nasty	13:40
vi_	My favourite is blue+question mark makes a full stop.	13:40
vi_	to get a ? you need blue+shift.	13:40
DocScrutinizer05	F1-F10 are usually equiv to esc-1 ..esc-0	13:40
vi_	This allows you to type in IP addresses without deactivating fn-lock.	13:40
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I did not know that.	13:40
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: (dot) very nice and convenient	13:41
vi_	yup, I have the same for space/@.	13:41
vi_	Moved @ to next level up so I can have space with fn pressed.	13:42
vi_	mega pain in the balls turning fn on/off.	13:42
DocScrutinizer05	yep	13:42
vi_	One I have never managed to get working is blue+backspace==delete	13:43
vi_	It _just does not work_ for some reason.	13:43
vi_	Meh, xkb is a workd of pain and hurt.	13:43
DocScrutinizer05	that's because blue-bs is handled by hildon-desktop and thus probably never reaches xterm	13:44
vi_	ffs	13:44
DocScrutinizer05	oops, nope	13:44
vi_	layer upon layer of fuck.	13:44
DocScrutinizer05	ctrl-bs	13:44
DocScrutinizer05	I'm still dizzy, sorry	13:45
vi_	Going back to stock KB is like being crippled.	13:45
vi_	Now all I need is a way to increase xterm font size then I can leave the osso-xterm bs behind.	13:46
DocScrutinizer05	I bet it is	13:46
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DocScrutinizer05	hmm, leave osso-xterm behind?	13:46
vi_	yes, for a real xterm	13:47
DocScrutinizer05	aaah	13:47
vi_	xterm, roxterm, mrxvt, etc	13:47
vi_	they support middle click pasting.	13:47
vi_	and have 'highlight' when I drag my mouse.	13:47
DocScrutinizer05	middleclick is a tad tricky on N900	13:47
vi_	Nuh uh.	13:48
vi_	With xbindkeys, it is just another shortcut.	13:48
vi_	blue+click==middle click	13:48
DocScrutinizer05	unless you use usb mouse ;-P	13:48
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	13:48
DocScrutinizer05	per default?	13:48
vi_	shift+click==right click.	13:48
vi_	no!	13:48
vi_	you have to use xbindkeys.	13:48
DocScrutinizer05	aah, I see	13:49
DocScrutinizer05	man, vi_, where is all that documented? where's your howto-page?	13:49
vi_	so everything is working on xterm except the stupid fonts.	13:49
vi_	I don't have one -_-.	13:49
DocScrutinizer05	~spank vi_	13:50
* infobot bends vi_ over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on vi_'s pasty white buttocks.		13:50
vi_	It is just TMO folklore, handed down through PMs	13:50
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vi_	I would like to document the KB stuff, however where do I write it?	13:52
vi_	A post on TMO gets buried.	13:52
vi_	So that leaves the wiki.	13:52
vi_	How do you possibly add stuff like this to the wiki?	13:52
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vi_	Without a major re-write?	13:52
Hurrian	vi_, meh, wiki needs serious restructuring	13:52
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vi_	Or do I just start a competing page?	13:53
Hurrian	meh, try to mosh it into whatever the page is for custom keyboard on N900	13:54
vi_	Hurrian: that page is one of the worst.	13:54
vi_	Other people have tried to do just that.	13:54
Hurrian	if it's better than everything, wipe it and replace it with your method	13:54
vi_	And the page is just filled with shit.	13:54
vi_	Take the OC page for example.	13:55
vi_	There is this jakiman overclock guide that shows in the simplest possible terms how to OC.	13:56
vi_	However it does not actually explain what any of the shit he is writing does.	13:56
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Hurrian	meh, i	13:56
Hurrian	meh, i'm bored, i'll probably try to rewrite that later tonight	13:56
vi_	OK.	13:57
vi_	IU will do the same.	13:57
vi_	I will create a new page called 'how to map your KB like a boss'.	13:57
Hurrian	geez, page is labeled overclocking, but undervolting should be included too	13:57
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vi_	And just dump my confs.	13:57
SpeedEvil	vi: I'm sure I saw a Dilbert on that.	13:57
vi_	SpeedEvil: what?	13:58
SpeedEvil	'how to map your KB like a boss'.	13:58
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: just create a new wiki page, under the original one	13:59
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DocScrutinizer05	link from wiki.m.o/original to wiki.m.o/original/myPage	13:59
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Keyboard_characters http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping	14:02
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DocScrutinizer05	vi_: just dump your confs there (last URL)	14:24
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: sure	14:24
DocScrutinizer05	see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard for borked 3-key pairs	14:25
vi_	I will have to fix it later, ya know with some vi sarcasm and dry rudeness.	14:25
DocScrutinizer05	wtf is a 3-key pair???	14:25
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	14:25
teotwaki	DocScrutinizer: the third key is the one who has to endure the couple kissing and being all cute, all the while having to hear "Don't worry, you'll find someone special soon enough".	14:26
teotwaki	And replying to himself: "I don't give a fuck about someone special, I just want to get laid, bitch".	14:27
vi_	teotwaki: we call him 'the fucking onion'	14:27
teotwaki	vi_: fucking onion? :D	14:27
Hurrian	DocScrutinizer, the omap3430 doesn't have on-die temp sensor, right?	14:33
Hurrian	it's just a sensor somewhere near the CPU	14:33
teotwaki	"Following Ray Bradbury's Death, Thousands Of People Buy Kindle Version Of Book About Demise Of Paper Books"	14:33
teotwaki	Hurrian: I thought it was the battery sensor?	14:34
Hurrian	yeah, you're right, that's it	14:34
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DocScrutinizer05	Hurrian: I think it has, but it's defect in silicon	14:35
teotwaki	IIRC, it's a 10 or 100k thermistor, had a funky easy to remember little name, R111110 or R1110 or something	14:35
DocScrutinizer05	10k	14:36
teotwaki	whoa, looks at his hands like Keanu Reeves in The Matrix: I know electronics!	14:36
DocScrutinizer05	on ADCIN1, or4, or0	14:36
teotwaki	Hurrian: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic	14:37
teotwaki	ADCIN0	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	it seems /sys/bus/platform/devices/omap34xx_temp is CPU die temp, but as mentioned it's defect and deprectaed	14:38
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DocScrutinizer05	actually /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input	14:38
teotwaki	Sad day, our usenet moderator mailing list is being decommissioned	14:38
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DocScrutinizer05	watch cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	will eventually freeze, or show complete bogus values	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	or just outright refuse to work at all	14:40
teotwaki	"Physicists Discover Our Universe Is Fictional Setting Of Cop Show Called 'Hard Case'"	14:41
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DocScrutinizer05	cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/adc* is UV and complete-spectrum ALS it seems	14:45
DocScrutinizer05	battery sensor (10k) is under /dev/twl4030-adc (ioctl)	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	the usually used "battery temp" as of bq27k-detail is just a random die temperature of some random chip somewhere on the N900, useless to read it out	14:49
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DocScrutinizer05	cat /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/madc might be related to... Tadaaa: the AV receptacle	14:51
fasta_	How can I setup USB networking? I tried http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking, but while at some point I was able to ping the host from the phone, I now cannot even do that.	14:51
fasta_	Can I use NetworkManager to set it up for example?	14:51
fasta_	I also wasn't able to do any kind of DNS queries on the phone.	14:52
fasta_	The instructions which are given on that page seem incomplete given that others have expressed similar problems. Isn't there some easier way to get it to work?	14:53
fasta_	The gateway for the phone is at 192.168.3.14, the phone is 192.168.3.15.	14:54
DocScrutinizer05	from `man watch`: >>(Note that -p isn’t guaranteed to work across reboots, especially in the face of ntpdate or other bootup time-changing mechanisms)<< HAHA suuuure	14:54
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: Just for you.	14:57
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: great	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	14:59
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DocScrutinizer05	cat /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/madc :: 1023 for no plug or AV-cable with yellow RCA plug open, 5..6 with 3pin headphone plug plugged in	15:00
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fasta_	Ok, I got pinging to work.	15:03
fasta_	Ok, I got pinging to work.	15:03
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DocScrutinizer05	vi_: please check "indentation"	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	>> partial hidden alphanumeric_keys xkb_symbols "english_base" { << is missing leading space	15:06
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DocScrutinizer05	or not?	15:06
kwtm	fasta_: I routinely use USB networking to ssh in to my N900, and can help you with concise questions, but will have to be away from the computer shortly. Is there anything in particular I can help you with?	15:07
kwtm	fasta_: I can see if I can paste my connect-to-USB scripts, if it helps.	15:07
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: fixd	15:08
vi_	kwtm: please do!	15:08
kwtm	vi_: ?? Wait, are you asking about USB netting or was it fasta_?	15:09
vi_	it was fasta, however I am also interested in this.	15:10
kwtm	In that case, I'm going to give you homework. Could you please post this in talk.maemo.org so that others can also benefit? ... although I gotta make sure I clean up my scripts before I present them in public. :P	15:11
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fasta_	kwtm: I mostly seem to have issues with the network manager part.	15:14
fasta_	kwtm: I can _either_ have eth0 internet or an usb0 connection, but not both.	15:14
fasta_	Kind of ridiculous, but I think I will just try the Gnome network manager to see whether I can get it to work.	15:14
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fasta_	The KDE one doesn't make sense to me.	15:14
fasta_	Without a GUI might even be better, but that's impossible, right?	15:15
fasta_	I mean, while still using network manager.	15:15
kwtm	fasta_: Interesting. That is not my case. I routinely ssh into it by USB and tell it to get things by mobile network, so definitely I can network two things ... although I can't specifically remember that it was WiFi and USB (rather than mobile & usb)	15:15
kwtm	fasta_: Not sure what you mean. Still interested in the scripts? I have one on the N900 and one on my Kubuntu laptop end, and when I run both, I can connect by USB.	15:16
fasta_	kwtm: I want to configure usb-networking from host to phone.	15:16
fasta_	kwtm: I think I already wrote such scripts myself.	15:16
fasta_	kwtm: thanks for the offer.	15:16
kwtm	fasta_: Right. That's what I do. I run a script on N900 as root, then run a script on the laptop as sudo, then I can connect to N900.	15:16
kwtm	Ok, no problem.	15:16
fasta_	kwtm: I automated this already.	15:16
kwtm	Hope you solve your problems.	15:16
fasta_	kwtm: I.e., I don't need to run any script.	15:16
fasta_	(or at least not manually)	15:17
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fasta_	I am also quite confused with the routes.	15:17
kwtm	you think that could be part of the problem? Something is being done automatically without your being aware?	15:17
fasta_	No, the problem is with the routes.	15:17
kwtm	Ok. Good luck with the routes.	15:18
fasta_	So, there isn't a route which says 'for phone traffic, go there.'	15:18
fasta_	But I am not a networking expert.	15:18
fasta_	(I don't get why they get their interfaces so ugly)	15:18
kwtm	Alright. Let me know if you want me to run something on my N900, like the output of command "route" or something.	15:18
fasta_	kwtm: yeah, that would be helpful.	15:18
vi_	The holy grail is booting a live distro off the N900 in mass storage mode. Then switching over to USB networking so we can access the N900 eMMC/SD AND browse the net over GPRS/3G.	15:18
fasta_	kwtm: both on your desktop and your phone.	15:18
kwtm	What would be helpful? Tell me specifically what to do. I need to be away for a moment, will come back.	15:19
fasta_	kwtm: execute route on your phone and on your desktop as root	15:19
kwtm	fasta_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1030279/	15:22
DocScrutinizer06	fasta_: the whole usb-networking is for usecase: share PC's internet via USB to N900	15:22
fasta_	DocScrutinizer06: I know	15:22
DocScrutinizer06	if you want to do: share N900 internet to PC, you have to swap roles of the both devices	15:23
DocScrutinizer06	on N900 default kernel, there are some bits missing for that	15:23
kwtm	fasta_: I should clarify: I am NOT sharing N900 internet to PC, just connect via USB so I can use PC keyboard, not tiny N900 keyboard. Let me know if my info is still useful to you.	15:23
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fasta_	kwtm: I also want to do that.	15:24
DocScrutinizer06	at least afaik	15:24
fasta_	kwtm: 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0	15:24
kwtm	ok, let me know if route output helpful or something else.	15:24
fasta_	kwtm: what does this line mean in human language?	15:24
fasta_	I get the usb0 part and the zeros aren't really important I think.	15:25
kwtm	fasta_: Other people more expert here, but basically, I think it means "anything going to the IP address 192.168.2.* will be routed through USB"	15:25
fasta_	I also get the 255 part.	15:25
DocScrutinizer06	kwtm: yup	15:25
fasta_	Ok, thanks.	15:26
DocScrutinizer06	fasta_: what is it you want to do?	15:28
kwtm	vi_: You wanted the scripts. Here is the N900 part: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1030289/	15:29
fasta_	DocScrutinizer06: ssh into phone via USB such that I can use my pc keyboard to execute commands on the phone.	15:29
fasta_	DocScrutinizer06: so, to do that, I first need to have proper networking configured.	15:30
DocScrutinizer06	for that the routes should already do the trick	15:30
fasta_	DocScrutinizer06: yes, but I don't have those routes.	15:30
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fasta_	Anyway, there is little to help now, as I first need to try something based on your earlier suggestions.	15:31
DocScrutinizer06	http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/neo-ssh	15:32
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DocScrutinizer06	just edit the IP addr in there	15:32
kwtm	vi_: You wanted the scripts. Here is the desktop end of it. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1030296/	15:33
DocScrutinizer06	watch out your N900 IP addr is not on same subnet as your other stuff on PC	15:33
DocScrutinizer06	(I.E. not both on 192.168.1.*)	15:34
kwtm	neo-ssh? A little matrixy, are we? :)	15:34
DocScrutinizer06	Openmoko Neo Freerunner aka GTA02	15:34
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Macer	MS LIED TO US! THE BETA TEST IS NOT OVER!	15:35
Macer	lol	15:35
kwtm	Oh. Sorry. I thought the Matrix was entirely contained within your N900.	15:35
kwtm	DOes openmoko run Maemo? If I see an old one, I could pick it up and use it like a N900?	15:35
DocScrutinizer06	no	15:36
vi_	o	15:36
vi_	no	15:36
vi_	openmoko runs nothing	15:36
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DocScrutinizer06	it runs a lot of OS but not maemo	15:36
vi_	people run FROM openmoko	15:36
kwtm	Oh, well. I guess I'm still stuck with the N900 then.	15:36
vi_	after using it.	15:36
kwtm	vi_: lol!	15:36
DocScrutinizer06	vi_: your very own problem	15:36
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, You would know about rebinding hardware keyboard of N900 properly, if You would read TMO ;) It was mentioned in thread, where You've also posted	15:37
vi_	I admit. I have never actually seen one in real life.	15:37
Estel_	I have full sized keyboard mnapped to n900 one :P	15:37
Estel_	without changing layouts	15:37
kwtm	fasta_: Best of luck.	15:38
Estel_	vi_, honestly, Your assumption about running from wasn't so far from truth	15:38
Estel_	nice idea, terrible implementation	15:38
vi_	It was a joke. I have no opinion on the openmoko. I know pratically nothing about it.	15:38
Estel_	IMO, of course	15:38
Estel_	I got pleasure of testing one	15:38
DocScrutinizer06	I noticed that	15:38
Estel_	s/got/had/	15:39
infobot	Estel_ meant: I had pleasure of testing one	15:39
DocScrutinizer06	most people commenting on OM have no idea at all, or at least very poor knowledge	15:39
DocScrutinizer06	oooh fuck, another regex due for my ignore	15:39
Estel_	vi_, it's a pity especially, that much hard work and knowledge were involve din creating them - yet, someone there was lacking "vision"	15:39
vi_	We engineers are not product designers.	15:40
Estel_	vi_, it will be little oxxagerated, but imagine smallest N900 with ~2.5 size screen with crappy resolution, without keyboard, running OS2006	15:41
fasta_	I have this GUI, where I need to fill in IP address:192.168.3.14, Netmask:???, Gateway:???, Metric:???. What do I need to put in the place of the ??? ?	15:41
DocScrutinizer06	vi_: eh?	15:41
Estel_	where task like pairing BLuetooth headset to have working phone calls is something out of scope for even biggest minds of their time ;)	15:41
Estel_	fasta_, netmask is you... netmask. Most likely, 255.255.255.0	15:41
Estel_	gateway - is, well, gateway. Next gateway Your connection is going through. Probably, router	15:42
Estel_	access point	15:42
Estel_	or whatever	15:42
Estel_	Metric - leave this alone if You don't know what it does :p	15:42
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vi_	They need a power control on a device. We say, no problem! just put a pot on the front panel, job done. The product 'designer' comes along and says 'a knob!! are you insane? this is not 1970 anymore, now we use touch buttons and LEDs'. The engineer starts to respond 'but that adds a whole extra layer of ffffffuck to the design'. The design 'engineer' says but it has to look sexy! and I want it as a ifone app'. 'but, but, but we say'.	15:45
DocScrutinizer06	vi_: GTA02 wasn't bad hardware wise for its time , and has an excellent 640*480 LCD. OS though never got mature, but in the end that's a community problem, as OM was definitely not selling the device as a complete end-user ready product	15:45
Macer	openmoko doesn't run anything? :)	15:46
Macer	BUT IT HAS OPEN IN THE NAME!!	15:46
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Estel_	GTA04 uses same screen, same body, and cost 666 euro for 512 RAM :/	15:47
vi_	I worked in a company making DML speakers. The MD of 'engineering' was obsessed with making it work with his ifone. He wanted it to be an ifone dock. I said, 'make it bluetooth, then it will work with everything! (more or less)'.	15:47
vi_	He said:	15:47
DocScrutinizer06	vi_: and yes, at OM we also had a "design 'engineer'"	15:47
vi_	'I am not sure bluetooth is going to be big'	15:48
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vi_	(or words to that effect, I cannot recall exactly).	15:48
Estel_	...which is answer why it resulted in computer bundled into form of dummbphone, failing to be any of those	15:48
vi_	I almost coughed my cornish pastie over my zx81.	15:48
Estel_	honestly, N900 design for is close to ideal. I mean screen covering whole front face, buttons and sides, and slide-out keyboard	15:48
Estel_	+ size	15:48
vi_	The word 'engineer' gets bandied about to often these days.	15:49
Estel_	a little bigger would be acceptable too, smaller - never	15:49
Estel_	BTW, vi_ , You're aware that we're working on 5A-6A battery for N900?:P	15:49
vi_	Estel_: my n900 is fat enough already!	15:50
Estel_	using mugen cover size	15:50
Estel_	approximatelyt	15:50
fasta_	If I configured something in network manager, is it applied directly?	15:50
Estel_	lol, i'm not talking about making it bigger, after all we can always connect car accu :P	15:50
vi_	will an 1850 fit inside a mugen cover?	15:51
Estel_	18650, won't using standard body	15:51
vi_	^18650	15:51
Estel_	using replacement body, yes	15:51
Estel_	if You get rid of bl-57 slot	15:51
vi_	what about some 14500s?	15:51
Estel_	and put there 18650 onek, instead	15:51
kwtm	DocScrutinizer06: I see that the digits at the end of your nick are incrementing. Should we celebrate for when you turn 10? :)	15:51
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Estel_	nope, 14500 got crap capacity and are overpriced	15:51
Estel_	it's like AAA batteries	15:51
vi_	AA	15:51
Estel_	no, AAA	15:51
Estel_	AA are normal	15:51
vi_	AA	15:51
Estel_	AAA are smaller, live shorter, and cost the same or more	15:51
Estel_	I know, 14500 are AA size	15:52
Estel_	But I'm also considering different type flat batteries	15:52
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vi_	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery	15:52
Estel_	ttI know what is AA battery ;)	15:52
DocScrutinizer06	kwtm: new laptop (T500), new irc client	15:52
vi_	AA=14mm*50mm	15:52
DocScrutinizer06	and 06 is the relogin	15:53
*** DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05		15:53
Estel_	i meant, that, like AAA are overpriced comapred to AA,14500 are overpriced compared to 186500	15:53
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Estel_	vi_, next 10 days (from monday) i'll be on trip, and I'll do first prototypes of custom backcover	15:54
Estel_	allu one	15:54
Estel_	with accomodation to radio signals	15:54
Estel_	after finishing backcove,r I'm going to do body replacement	15:54
Estel_	and belive me, I'm going to put 5A or 6A battery there :P	15:55
Estel_	5Ah, even	15:55
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vi_	Estel_: wouldn't you be better stuffing a lipo pouch in the space?	15:56
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Estel_	probably not	15:56
Estel_	If You know decent one of good size	15:57
Estel_	and good capacity	15:57
Estel_	...that won't disssapear like scuds...	15:57
Hurrian	awright, Overclocking page updated to better reflect current state of OC and UX	15:57
Hurrian	*UV	15:57
Estel_	Ultra Violet?	15:57
* vi_ raises his glass to Hurrian.		15:57
Hurrian	>.2.2.2.1 Nokia's kernel	15:57
Estel_	vi_, phillips release 3400 mAh 18650 recently	15:57
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Estel_	and I bet it's not their last word	15:58
vi_	Estel_: hah, at 20mA discharge I bet!	15:58
Estel_	I bet that we will have 8Ah battery soon, too	15:58
Estel_	nope	15:58
Estel_	C10	15:58
DocScrutinizer05	Hurrian: I didn't realize OC and UV had a changing current state	15:58
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Estel_	vi_, whatever, N900 on idle with GSM on haved 4-8 mA discharge :P	15:58
Estel_	Hurrian, link please?	15:59
Estel_	BTw, hurrian, remind me, do You submitted to CA?	15:59
Hurrian	Estel_, yeah	16:01
Hurrian	Estel_:http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking	16:01
Estel_	I';mstill surprised, that vi_ submitted only for N950, i.e. won't accept N9 in cas eof N950 being already submitted	16:03
Estel_	after all, for price of N9, one can have many N900's	16:03
Estel_	Hurrian, nice job	16:03
Hurrian	bah, fixed <pre>'s	16:04
Hurrian	it's been years since I used that tag	16:04
vi_	Estel_: why?	16:06
vi_	I want an N950	16:06
vi_	When you select the winners you will find there is extra pressure for N950s	16:06
vi_	you will then prioritise N950s for people who asked for N950s only.	16:06
vi_	I am not entering because I want free fonez	16:09
vi_	If I wanted an N9 I would have bought one by now.	16:09
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Hurrian	Estel_, thanks	16:12
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Hurrian	TODO: turn the tables into actual tables	16:21
Hurrian	TODO: make the kernel-power page not awful	16:21
Estel_	+1	16:22
Estel_	always wanted to do that, and never got enough free time	16:22
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MrPingu	Hi, back from short vacation :)	16:23
Estel_	nice to see You MrPingu :)	16:25
Estel_	hoep You enjoyed it	16:25
MrPingu	sure! 4 days with 12 other peers and knowing that your parents are about 100Km away feels great :P	16:26
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MrPingu	I see there's a new CSSU :)	16:28
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MrPingu	Fsck, they send me another fake digitizer :(	16:31
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MrPingu	Anyone knows a good website where they sell 100% genuine N900 digitizers?	16:32
SpeedEvil	:/	16:33
SpeedEvil	how fake?	16:33
MrPingu	Uhm, lcd is a bit off to left from the view-window	16:33
MrPingu	no keyboard-sensor-magnet	16:34
DocScrutinizer05	EH?	16:34
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MrPingu	it's a bit bigger, no serial numbe	16:34
DocScrutinizer05	what got kbd magnet to do with digitizer?	16:34
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MrPingu	well I ordered a whole frontcover ;)	16:35
DocScrutinizer05	err, mhm	16:35
MrPingu	Still, no serial number is defenitely fake!	16:36
DocScrutinizer05	maybe, maybe not	16:36
MrPingu	I got some high res pics, fake compared to original ;)	16:37
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MrPingu	Lemme find them ;)	16:37
DocScrutinizer05	fine, show them	16:37
DocScrutinizer05	I'd actually love to see a fake digitizer	16:37
DocScrutinizer05	it's kinda incredible they copy such stuff, given the extremely low sales figures they might expect	16:38
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fasta_	I get a routing table like this now: http://paste.kde.org/495434/	16:38
fasta_	I don't understand why I get such weird device names, though.	16:38
fasta_	And basically with that routing table, I cannot use the Internet via eth0.	16:39
DocScrutinizer05	yay, that looks nasty	16:41
MrPingu	Docscrutinizer05, well another problem with my fake frontcover is that the images of the first welcome screen (setting time) couldn't be found	16:41
vi__	???	16:41
vi__	dafuq cover has to do with welcome screen?	16:42
MrPingu	vi__ dont ask me :P	16:42
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: no surprise	16:42
MrPingu	really, when I replaced it, I booted	16:42
MrPingu	Well battery was long enough out to make it forget it's time	16:43
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MrPingu	then you get booted into welcome-screen	16:43
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: well, I am also not hugely surprised, but I am surprised by rename4.	16:43
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vi__	sounds like more than your cover is broke.	16:43
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: also, can you say something which solves the problem?	16:43
Estel_	MrPingu, wtf?	16:44
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: this whole routing is one huge mess I'd say	16:44
vi__	is welcome screen all boxes?	16:44
MrPingu	to my surprise: All buttons where displayed with a big red tekxt image not found	16:44
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I agree.	16:44
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: but I don't see any instructions anywhere on how to setup something decent with network-manager.	16:44
Estel_	MrPingu, it definitelly doesn't have anything to do with digitizer	16:44
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vi__	opt is fecked up	16:44
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: I found sometimes kernel soesn't recover from messed up routing, you need reboot to restore normal operation	16:44
MrPingu	so something in the upper-part of N900 contains these images ;)	16:44
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I know exactly what I want, but I just cannot express it.	16:44
Estel_	MrPingu, as vi__ said, Your opt was not connected	16:44
fasta_	I can express it in human language perfectly.	16:45
Estel_	no, really it doesn't	16:45
MrPingu	No way, I mean I even reflashed	16:45
Estel_	MrPingu, coincidence	16:45
Estel_	interesting	16:45
DocScrutinizer05	I never made *manager to play nice with USB routing	16:45
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: if I disable the n900 connection, I can use IRC.	16:45
Estel_	you know, it's absolutely impossible, but if You experienced it, it's worth investigation	16:45
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: like I am doing now.	16:45
MrPingu	when I replaced my original back, welcome screen was normal	16:45
Estel_	MrPingu, you, most liukely, aren't willing to try replacing again	16:45
Estel_	but I would be very itnereste din results	16:46
Estel_	as I'm 10101038478 % sure, that upper part of N900 doesn't have anything to do with images	16:46
Estel_	so, if You would still get such results, it would mean thatm msome poart block eMMC	16:46
Estel_	but how?	16:46
Estel_	BTw, where are these pictures? I want to see fake digitizer too	16:47
Estel_	BTw, MrPingu, what is Your price limit for original digitizer?	16:47
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Estel_	and, what about it's condition? It must be 100% perfect?	16:47
Estel_	I got access to used N900 digitizers dissasembled from faulty units	16:48
Estel_	for very good prices	16:48
Estel_	although, conditions vary	16:48
Estel_	most of them is quite usable, after applying protector foil You don't see any scratches, not matter what	16:48
Estel_	no*	16:48
vi__	estel, n900 pimp	16:49
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Estel_	:P	16:50
MrPingu	Meh I can't find pictures, give me another sec	16:50
vi__	it is worth paying for real parts.	16:50
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vi__	the chinky knockoffs are shit.	16:51
MrPingu	Btw how can my device function normal if opt isn't mounted?	16:51
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: http://paste.kde.org/495434/ ifconfig -a output	16:51
MrPingu	After welcome screen everything worked fine ;)	16:51
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fasta_	Linux is supposedly 'open', but here its operation is as opaque as it can be.	16:51
DocScrutinizer05	actually running neo-ssh involved shutting down network-manager first	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	NM config done by distro-install-tools never usually is prepared to handle more than the usual NICs	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	and definitely not any downlink	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	NM will always try to setup N900 as another NIC	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	and that's not what you want	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	unless you want to share N900 internet to PC	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: there's definitely no storage in digitizer :-D	16:52
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DocScrutinizer05	I however could see how system-init does funny things when input device throws error	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: without /opt no normal operation	16:52
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DocScrutinizer05	that's exactly what you observed	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	I guess	16:52
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: this pastie looks like route to me	16:53
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MrPingu	No I only observed faulty welcome screen, after that it was fine ;)	16:53
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: http://paste.kde.org/495440/ sorry about that	16:54
MrPingu	I am still as surprised as you guys :P	16:54
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: and btw is same URL you already posted	16:54
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: your USB gateway is 192.168.3.14 - and has P-t-P?? :-o	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: NM tries to configure that as DSL modem or whatever	16:56
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DocScrutinizer05	or USB UMTS stick	16:56
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: toldya NM won't play with USB networking as you want to establish it	16:57
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MrPingu	http://www.imgur.com/a/Ie33c/all	16:59
MrPingu	sorry you need to rotate the images yourself...	16:59
MrPingu	1 + 3 : serial numbers	17:00
MrPingu	2: magnet	17:00
MrPingu	4 Notification Led lens	17:01
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DocScrutinizer05	what's with the lens?	17:01
MrPingu	My ordered cover didn't have one ;)	17:02
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	17:02
MrPingu	Tried to attach it to the fake, but no go...	17:02
vi__	who wants to compile a maemo vdersion of roxterm?	17:02
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: why do all Linux distributions ship such utter crap then?	17:02
vi__	I will email you a donut.	17:03
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: and how should I configure it? Just in /etc/network/interfaces?	17:03
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vi__	fasta_: welcome to FOSS.	17:03
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: do you also use Linux?	17:03
MrPingu	Now I am still using that fscked screen I once showed you ;)	17:03
DocScrutinizer05	surew	17:03
fasta_	vi__: not all FOSS is crap.	17:03
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: it's utter crap only if you want to do unusual things ;-)	17:04
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fasta_	Also, configuring network interfaces isn't something which is difficult for a programmer to get right.	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: and I guess you just have to shutdown NM	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	and do all the network config manually	17:04
fasta_	I.e., if not someone else already ruined it.	17:04
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fasta_	How does OpenBSD do it?	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	NFC	17:04
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: ?	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	~nfc	17:05
infobot	well, nfc is No Fucking Clue, or near field communications	17:05
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: toldya I had to shutdown *manager prior to running http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/neo-ssh	17:06
DocScrutinizer05	and that's it	17:06
DocScrutinizer05	maybe also stop firewall	17:06
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: yes, but I would like to have a setup where I just plug it in and udev automatically runs for example your script.	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	that doesn't work	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	Nm forbids	17:07
fasta_	Huh	17:07
fasta_	I mean: I can uninstall network-manager.	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	HaleBopp:~ # ifup eth0	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	Network interface is managed by the NetworkManager -> skipping	17:08
MrPingu	Estel_, you have some digitizers? I guess I want to buy it for about 30-40 EUR ;)	17:08
fasta_	So, how can it forbid it then if it is not installed?	17:08
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: nah, you got me wrong. Sure uninstalling NM is a feasible way	17:09
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DocScrutinizer05	as this will cahnge the response to ifup as quoted above	17:09
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DocScrutinizer05	as long as your system is configured for NM, you can't administrate NICs manually	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	or at least I don't know how you do	17:11
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DocScrutinizer05	the netto result of all this: I unistalled NM on my old laptop, settting up my network the classical way	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	as in the end NM was even interfering with flashing	17:13
DocScrutinizer05	since once long ago I dared to configure USB as a regular NIC, in my suse yast	17:14
DocScrutinizer05	in an futile effort to make it work with NM	17:15
DocScrutinizer05	bottom line: NM only knows how to handle uplinks to internet	17:16
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DocScrutinizer	MrPingu: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4369_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover-Touchscreen.html	17:18
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DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: I gather your in .nl, so I guess you could buy at some european shop like saremi	17:27
DocScrutinizer05	you're*	17:28
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MrPingu	Yeh Thanks, yep I am from NL ;)	17:40
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I got it to work via some instructions from some Russian website.	17:52
fasta_	I do however now get: NO_PUBKEY 6713C33F3F027BB1 during apt-get update.	17:52
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: that seems to be unrelated	17:53
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: yes, it's completely unrelated.	17:54
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: perhaps I should have used XML tags: <completely unrelated but also a problem>.	17:54
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: would you mind to share telegram style of what you did to get it working?	17:54
fasta_	http://max.vseborice.net/n900-usb-networking	17:55
fasta_	It's basically that.	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	(no Russian knowledge here)	17:55
fasta_	I nuked network manager.	17:55
fasta_	I also don't speak Russian.	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, nuking NM is the key	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	the rest is 'easy'	17:55
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: well, another key is the udev configuration.	17:55
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: all the planets have to be aligned.	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	sure, that's for advanced fun	17:56
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I was surprised that starting xchat, via the ssh shell started it on the device, and not on my desktop.	17:56
fasta_	I did ssh -X	17:56
fasta_	That's not supposed to happen, right?	17:56
DocScrutinizer05	I think -X doesn't work with hildon	17:57
fasta_	hildon?	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	there are some mini howtos about that	17:57
fasta_	Also how can I check via the command line which version I am running?	17:57
fasta_	E.g. community version X?	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	hildon -> basically maemo X	17:57
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DocScrutinizer05	check out maemo scratchbox & xephyr	17:58
rm_work	i used to run Eclipse on my N900	17:59
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rm_work	via ssh -X	17:59
rm_work	it wasn't the easiest thing to use, but it was pretty cool :P	17:59
rm_work	definately works	17:59
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: is that something I want on my phone or on my desktop?	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, but genuine maemo hildon apps won't forward via -X afaik	17:59
rm_work	ah	17:59
rm_work	maemo xchat, not desktop xchat?	18:00
rm_work	nm then, dunno ;P	18:00
fasta_	I am currently running 20.2010.36-2maemon16.8	18:00
fasta_	That's not the newest, I think?	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: SB&xephyr emulate maemo desktop on PC	18:00
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DocScrutinizer05	AIUI xephyr somehow manages to "remote link" to hildon desktop	18:01
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: so they don't even require a phone?	18:01
DocScrutinizer05	exactly, if you run maemo in SB quemu	18:01
DocScrutinizer05	but afaik you could also connect xephyr to real device	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	I think all genuine maemo apps rely on N900 screen dimensions etc	18:02
vi__	~xephyr	18:02
SpeedEvil	A very few apps I tried when I tested it starting them with display set to my PC worked at other than n900 screen dimensions	18:03
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29386	18:03
SpeedEvil	Most of them minimally ported apps with no hildonising	18:04
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	18:04
DocScrutinizer05	hildonizing defeats -X	18:04
DocScrutinizer05	unless you use xephyr (or other compatibly configured dedicated Xserver)	18:04
DocScrutinizer05	that's why usually you use vnc for that	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	...I heard	18:05
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DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#What_is_not_included_in_the_Maemo_SDK.3F -> xwphyr	18:07
DocScrutinizer05	xephyr even	18:07
fasta_	How can I add the public key to get rid of the problem above?	18:09
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DocScrutinizer05	I think it's a commonly encountered problem that hmmm ... fixes itself the day after?	18:10
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DocScrutinizer05	no idea actually, except I've seen this line of complaint so many times	18:11
DocScrutinizer05	maybe somebody else here actually encountered the problem and knows what it needs to get it fixed	18:12
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DocScrutinizer05	afaik it's a problem on the 'far end'	18:12
fasta_	I think I know how to solve it.	18:14
fasta_	I don't know in principle whether I am now trusting someone I shouldn't, though.	18:14
DocScrutinizer05	ignore? :-D	18:14
fasta_	There seems to be a whole forest of public keys floating around for Maemo related stuff.	18:14
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	18:15
fasta_	maemo.org community repositories (diablo) <repositories@maemo.org>	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	YAY	18:15
fasta_	Does that diablo thing mean anything to you?	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	what are you doing with diablo?	18:15
fasta_	I don't know.	18:15
fasta_	If it's old, I can likely disable it.	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	it's maemo4, for N8xx	18:15
fasta_	Ok, so then I will want to remove that.	18:16
DocScrutinizer05	yep!	18:16
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DocScrutinizer05	~repositories	18:17
infobot	repositories are frequently old.	18:17
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I only have these: http://paste.kde.org/495524	18:17
DocScrutinizer05	meh	18:17
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: is there anything old about those?	18:17
DocScrutinizer05	you probably don't want community-testing	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	the rest looks sane to me	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	though usually you enable extras-devel only temporarily to install a particular pkg	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	and never do apt-get upgrade!	18:20
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: W: Ignoring Provides line with DepCompareOp for package binutils <- what's that?	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	nfc	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	I gather it's a W arning	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	never seen this when disabling a repo in HAM	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	generally you should manage your repos in HAM, not in xterm via apt-foo et al	18:22
fasta_	Ok, I disabled extras-devel and now it's now there anymore.	18:22
fasta_	Is apt-get upgrade safe now?	18:22
DocScrutinizer05	no way	18:22
DocScrutinizer05	apt-get upgrade never is safe on maemo	18:23
fasta_	What is safe?	18:23
DocScrutinizer05	HAM	18:23
DocScrutinizer05	it's friggin slow, but the only certified and supported way	18:23
fasta_	Ok, and why can't I install a new version of maemo just via apt-get?	18:23
DocScrutinizer05	because maemo packaging is fubar	18:24
fasta_	So, I basically have to follow those instructions including backing up, etc.?	18:24
DocScrutinizer05	yes	18:24
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fasta_	Is it possible to use the infrared of the device to control an analog TV?	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	yes	18:25
fasta_	I saw some application for that.	18:25
fasta_	That's just so cool.	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	though range is very limited	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	some 2 m maybe	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	depends on TV	18:26
fasta_	It would be nice if I could just get a system image from some very experienced user, such that I could see how they experience the n900.	18:26
DocScrutinizer05	I had it working with IRReco, but not with the Qt spawn	18:27
fasta_	With Linux it's a bit the same; if you don't configure it well, it's useless.	18:27
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	18:27
rm_work	i got irreco to... kind of work. once, on one TV	18:27
rm_work	but all it could do was volume and power	18:28
rm_work	couldn't get the rest	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	alas I'm not going to share a complete diskimage :-D	18:28
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: because of all your contacts, private stuff?	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	yep	18:28
fasta_	Isn't it easy to delete that information somehow automatically?	18:28
fasta_	Then you could get a whole 'sharing of diskimages' community.	18:29
fasta_	Just a thought.	18:29
fasta_	It tells me that I can install the Maemo 5 Community SSU Package. Will that wipe everything if I say 'sure, install that'.	18:30
fasta_	?	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	should be feasible	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	dang, you still have a repo for CSSU configured	18:30
fasta_	I shouldn't do that?	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	it's guaranteed to break if you just install it, i'd guess	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	~cssu	18:31
infobot	cssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU	18:31
fasta_	I feel just so stupid in this channel, while I have no problems with any other Linux.	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	np, that's usual	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	and will go away soon	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	maybe this will give you some ideas, though it's mainly advances stuff:	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	18:32
infobot	jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	18:32
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fasta_	Does the backup remember what I had installed via HAM?	18:36
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fasta_	http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU says 'install backupmenu', but what does it mean by that? I.e. does it want me to do apt-get install (I am sure that would work), or is there some other assumption here?	18:44
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kaawee	Hello! Nokia warranty service has received my N900 (with defective touchscreen) and now they say they have disposed it, but they cannot repair it and they also cannot replace it by another N900, but they offer an E7 or an N8. This does not seem to be acceptable for me? Any recommendations how to react? I'd either like an N900 or something better or equivalent.	18:48
SpeedEvil	There are no equivalents.	18:48
SpeedEvil	N9 is in some ways the closest.	18:49
kaawee	Could I ask for an N950?	18:49
SpeedEvil	Work out which you can sell for more on ebay, and purchase a replacement second-hand n900 if you want to go that route.	18:49
SpeedEvil	YOu could ask, but they are not for sale, so I'd be astonished if you got one	18:49
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: (Does the backup remember) yes; 'install backupmenu' go to HAM and search for backupmenu	18:52
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: the problem with HAM is that I need to know the category in advance, no?	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	apt-get install may work too	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	no, there's a cat 'all'	18:52
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: i.e. algorithm: try every category and in every category search for backupmenu.	18:52
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: oh, great. How?	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	upper left IIRC	18:53
fasta_	(surely, I would never try all of them in this case)	18:53
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: got it. Thanks	18:53
DocScrutinizer05	yw	18:53
fasta_	If so many people want a n950, why don't they just sell them?	18:53
SpeedEvil	Good question.	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	good question	18:54
fasta_	They are a business, right?	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	:-P	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	no, they are elopized	18:54
fasta_	Can't the stock holders fire him?	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	dunno	18:55
fasta_	er shareholders	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	seems they are happy with his nonsense	18:55
fasta_	I got to vote for some of my shares.	18:55
fasta_	Except I got the memo a month after the vote.	18:55
fasta_	Yeah... sure, they could vote.	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	you got NOK shares? condolences	18:56
fasta_	No	18:56
fasta_	I was thinking of going short NOK, though.	18:56
DocScrutinizer05	you meant shareholders, and I meant board	18:57
fasta_	That was right after the announcement of their craptastic move.	18:57
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: yes, I corrected myself already.	18:57
Estel_	MrPingu, yea, I have access to genuine ones	18:57
DocScrutinizer05	the shareholders probably can't do anything	18:57
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: see the 'er shareholders' part.	18:57
Estel_	BTw, LOL at lack of hole for notification led	18:57
DocScrutinizer05	the board is happy with their new master	18:58
Estel_	but, MrPingu, as I've said, digitizers I got access to are used ones	18:58
Estel_	what about condition required by You? I'll search for ones that comply with your needs, and inform you about price	18:58
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, I seen that part, and corrected myself as well	18:58
fasta_	Why does the installation of backupmenu give this huge warning?	18:59
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DocScrutinizer05	ignore it	18:59
DocScrutinizer05	whatever it is	18:59
fasta_	All it needs to do is read some information; how dangerous can it possibly be?	18:59
fasta_	(well, and write it to some file)	18:59
DocScrutinizer05	restoring can be dangerous	18:59
DocScrutinizer05	and it has some nifty battery charging that needs i2ctools	19:00
DocScrutinizer05	the warning afaik is about i2ctools as I didn't feel like removing this warning from the original package	19:00
DocScrutinizer05	i2ctools are dangerous	19:00
fasta_	Dangerous like rm -rf /* is dangerous?	19:01
fasta_	I mean: either the software works, or it doesn't.	19:01
DocScrutinizer05	don't mess with i2ctools unless you know what you're doing (backupmenu knows ;-D)	19:01
fasta_	Ok	19:01
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DocScrutinizer05	(dangerous like in "oops, now I erased this calibration data and whole firmware of the ALS sensor)	19:02
DocScrutinizer05	BM knows what to do with I2Ctools, so forget the warning, and forget there's a thing called i2cset	19:04
DocScrutinizer05	btw this warning is one of the reasons when apt-get install might fail	19:05
DocScrutinizer05	there are some pkgs like that which you better install via HAM rather than apt-get	19:05
DocScrutinizer05	pkgs are tested for installation via HAM, it's not guaranteed they all install nicely via any other installer	19:07
DocScrutinizer05	(and in fact it's hard to catch an apt-get install from inside the pkg, and do only compatible things in that case)	19:08
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DocScrutinizer05	(otherwise we would've changed the warning requester popup to a "echo warning >2" when pkg gets installed via plain apt-get)	19:09
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Atarii	freemangordon you there? what's the libcurl3 version i need installed?	20:09
kaawee	Is it possible to flash Maemo or Meego onto a Nokia E7?	20:17
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freemangordon	Atarii: How am I sopposed to know which version of libcurl3 YOU have installed on YOUR device ?!?	20:22
freemangordon	*supposed	20:22
Atarii	I'm not asking that	20:23
freemangordon	damn, check it	20:23
freemangordon	Atarii: sorry, misread your question	20:23
Atarii	I'm asking the version YOU said should fix the MfE issue	20:23
Atarii	ah :)	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	kaawee: no	20:23
freemangordon	Atarii: 7.25.0-1maemo7	20:24
Atarii	damn ok thanks	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	20:24
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Atarii	I did an update, libcurl3 was listed, but still on 7.18.2-8maemo6	20:25
Atarii	strange thigns afoot	20:25
Atarii	things*	20:25
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freemangordon	Atarii: do apt-get install libcurl3	20:47
fasta_	I started cutetube, but how do I exit it?	20:48
fasta_	nm	20:49
fasta_	It seems impossible to run it in the background, unfortunately.	20:50
fasta_	Also, after I have upgraded CCSU, I just need to run the restore from the boot menu?	20:52
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: when I click on 'stable', it justs says 'operation failed' in HAM.	20:54
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: it also seems that all of my repositories have been deleted?!	20:55
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: please read instructions on	20:55
DocScrutinizer05	~cssu	20:55
infobot	hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU	20:55
Woody14619	apt-get can be used to figure out why it's failing. I've used apt-get for installing backupmenu and other things. You just have to keep an eye on the screen at times, as some installers like that pop up a "click ok" message to acknowledge you read the warning.	20:55
DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619: yep, that's just one issue	20:56
Woody14619	I actually use apt-get for about 90% of my installs, so I can see wtf it's doing. :) I have enough "magic" in my life as it is without adding to it.	20:56
DocScrutinizer05	depending on environment, the requester also might fail to pop up at all and thus the install will abort	20:56
Woody14619	.oO(That, and I screw around with things a lot, so my N900 isn't exactly "typical" or "stock", which most packages expect)	20:57
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: make sure you don't run any other installers or whatever in parallel to CSSU install	20:57
fasta_	The problem in this case, is that I didn't instruct the machine to delete repositories.	20:57
DocScrutinizer05	follow the instructions, and don't do other things in parallel	20:58
Woody14619	Actually, the CSSU version has fixed that, so the dep_pkg tools emmit a warning and move on. :)	20:58
fasta_	I followed the instructions on the website.	20:58
fasta_	(and I read the FAQ)	20:58
DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: CSSU will configure repositories, unless you're interferring by watching what's going on there and thus blocking stuff	20:58
DocScrutinizer05	to me it sounds like you didn't even finish the installation	20:59
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I didn't even start it.	21:00
DocScrutinizer05	umm???	21:00
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I just pressed the stable button, then it said it had to enable all kinds of repositories.	21:00
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: so, after than I exited HAM.	21:00
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: perhaps I shouldn't have done that.	21:00
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: but I don't see why that should cause a problem.	21:01
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I also set 'ignore the CSSU update'.	21:01
DocScrutinizer05	you should do exactly what's written on ~cssu	21:01
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: but I was assuming that I could get it back if I manually started it.	21:01
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: ok, how can I 'unignore' that now?	21:01
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	21:02
DocScrutinizer05	NFc	21:02
fasta_	(and where does HAM store its repositories?)	21:02
DocScrutinizer05	why do you wanna know that?	21:02
fasta_	The instructions didn't mention the scenario I was in.	21:02
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: because I do see the repositories listed in /etc/apt/...	21:02
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: but they don't come up in HAM.	21:03
DocScrutinizer05	that's why you're not supposed to edit those in /etc/apt	21:03
DocScrutinizer05	you always edit repos in HAM	21:03
fasta_	Ok, so now I got a message again that there is an update.	21:04
DocScrutinizer05	how about installing it then? like suggested on ~cssu, in breathtaking verbosity	21:05
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DocScrutinizer05	honestly, the instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU couldn't be any more detailed	21:06
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DocScrutinizer05	so we thought it's implicitly clear you don't need additional steps to mess with repos on your own, in xterm, or anything	21:06
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: it's running now.	21:07
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fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: I prefer just running a command instead of following instructions and pushing buttons.	21:07
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, I can't help then	21:08
fasta_	E.g. wget http://maemo.org/magiccommandsequence && ./magiccommandsequence	21:08
fasta_	Well, with an additional chmod +x	21:08
fasta_	And perhaps gainroot.	21:08
fasta_	Anyway, you get the idea.	21:08
DocScrutinizer05	not really	21:08
fasta_	Then there is also no discussion about 'user error'.	21:08
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fasta_	It's a computer; if I need to 'follow steps', it means that those are steps which could also have been performed by a program.	21:09
DocScrutinizer05	hell, quite a number of people invested weeks of work each, to make user experience on installing CSSU a warm breeze	21:09
fasta_	I am not saying it's bad.	21:10
DocScrutinizer05	we're not going to write up a hacker's_howto_CSSU for your pleasure	21:10
fasta_	I am not saying you should.	21:10
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DocScrutinizer05	after all there's a reason CSSU install works the way it does	21:10
fasta_	Because it needs to use HAM?	21:10
fasta_	And HAM is not programmable?	21:11
DocScrutinizer05	as it's not exactly trivial to switch repos from an installation	21:11
DocScrutinizer05	yes	21:11
fasta_	Well, those are valid reasons.	21:11
fasta_	Next question would be why HAM could not be extended ;)	21:11
DocScrutinizer05	it WILL be extended, IN CSSU ;-P	21:12
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fasta_	Ok, I think it worked :)	21:12
DocScrutinizer05	how to update apt: apt-get purge apt-get; apt-get install apt-get	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	XP	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	hope you got the pun	21:13
fasta_	Yes	21:13
fasta_	I am not _that_ ignorant.	21:13
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fasta_	Although, I don't see the correspondence.	21:14
fasta_	So, perhaps I am stupid.	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	HAM is	21:14
fasta_	It appears faster, or is the just wishing for it to be faster?	21:14
fasta_	In particular scrolling.	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	the whole CSSU upgrade is like a huge apt-get update	21:14
fasta_	Isn't it more like installing a new distro?	21:15
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly	21:15
DocScrutinizer05	more like upgrading a whole distro	21:15
fasta_	dist-upgrade, then :)	21:15
DocScrutinizer05	which will break stuff	21:16
DocScrutinizer05	due to maemo packaging not compatible with dist-upgrade	21:16
DocScrutinizer05	that's why you need HAM	21:16
DocScrutinizer05	and HAM is not scriptable	21:17
DocScrutinizer05	believe me there are good reasons why CSSU install works this and no other way	21:17
fasta_	Well, everything is scriptable if you put some effort in it.	21:17
fasta_	I.e., if you would hack the binary and add your own interfaces.	21:18
fasta_	I mean, it's the same thing hackers do.	21:18
fasta_	It's not really 'proper engineering', though.	21:18
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, afk	21:18
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Jade	hi	22:10
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fasta_	What's the resolution of the front camera?	22:42
fasta_	It seems extremely bad; much worse than even a laptop camera.	22:43
fasta_	Or does it needs some configuration to look somewhat decent?	22:43
luke-jr	640x480	22:47
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Raimu	fasta_: Yes, it's just really horrible and light-unsensitive.	22:59
Raimu	I think it's useless, unless you for some reason want to check yourself using the Mirror app in broad daylight or something.	23:00
fasta_	Raimu: the normal camera also isn't that good, right?	23:00
Raimu	Well, I think the back camera is pretty nice.	23:00
fasta_	Is there some way I can test the front camera without any other factors (like Internet speed)?	23:00
fasta_	The photos also don't appear to be sharp.	23:00
fasta_	It's jpeg compressed already.	23:01
fasta_	How can I set jpeg compression to 0?	23:01
fasta_	I.e. quality 100.	23:01
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Raimu	There're threads about it talk.maemo.org, but Fcamera-based applications can just save shots into raw format.	23:01
Woody14619	fasta_ hit tmo. there was a topic on there about using the front camera with gstreamer commands directly, disabling jpg as inline.	23:02
fasta_	Woody14619: and is there a noticable difference?	23:02
Woody14619	It's still ugly, and I believe it is vga (640x480), but reasonable for skype and other such apps.	23:02
fasta_	Woody14619: well, I just used it over skype and there were even blocks visible.	23:02
Woody14619	I noted the cpu use is much lower than mirror, but image quality wise? not a lot...	23:02
fasta_	Woody14619: I mean like 3 by 4 cm blocks.	23:02
Woody14619	oh.. well. better than that. :)	23:03
fasta_	Woody14619: I also noticed there was a delay of about 3 minutes in the actual video.	23:03
Woody14619	That sounds more like a bandwidth issue...	23:03
fasta_	Woody14619: so, it seems like the device couldn't keep up or something like that.	23:03
fasta_	Woody14619: which is why I would like to test the front camera without Internet interference.	23:03
fasta_	I think I only have like 100KB/s upload per second, so that's most like the explanation.	23:04
fasta_	minus the per second.	23:04
Woody14619	yup... just hit tmo and power search for gstreamer and the dev of the front camera...	23:04
fasta_	likely	23:04
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Woody14619	K, am off to do real work. :)	23:06
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: get mirror	23:17
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DocScrutinizer05	fasta_: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=mirror&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same	23:20
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fasta_	I doubt that's anywhere near 640x480.	23:26
fasta_	More like 320x240 or something like that.	23:26
Raimu	It's just a really shitty 640x480 afaik.	23:26
fasta_	It must come from the part stack then which first dropped off a cliff, then in the rain, through the mud, sent in space and then was packaged up by angry employees.	23:27
Raimu	I was under the impression that's where the SoC came as well.	23:27
fasta_	Still, that FM feature is kind of cool.	23:28
Raimu	Sure. A lot of things're very cool about the n900.	23:28
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fasta_	I also tested out Skype video chat.	23:29
fasta_	While it doesn't look as cool as on an iPhone, it does work.	23:29
fasta_	The voice signal is the most important anyway.	23:30
fasta_	What's 'appdownloader' exactly?	23:30
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fasta_	Is it just a community frontend for HAM?	23:30
fasta_	Kind of like software center is in Ubuntu?	23:30
Raimu	I actually have no clue.	23:31
Raimu	Mind you, frontend is exactly what HAM already is.	23:31
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Raimu	I personally use the Fast Application Manager for HAM replacement, but a lot of dissenting voices on that one.	23:32
Raimu	Apparently, it can mess things up in select situations.	23:32
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BCMM	Raimu: HAM is not quite just a frontend. i am told that it's update feature works substantially differently from apt-get upgrade and that the latter must not be done	23:37
BCMM	annoyingly	23:37
Raimu	BCMM: I stand corrected!	23:39
BCMM	this is a source of great annoyance to me. i have machines running three different distributions where apt-get install works properly, and i have to remember not to to apt-get upgrade on one of them	23:40
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fasta_	Why does the n900 think that I want to do a firmware upgrade when it is connected via usb?	23:49
fasta_	Can't it just try to read from it and if nothing comes that it expects assume it doesn't want to flash anything?	23:49
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Raimu	I don't understand the question. Are you hooked up to a PC with the USB cable and the PC's running what?	23:50
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fasta_	Raimu: yes, Linux.	23:54
fasta_	Raimu: it works perfectly.	23:54
DocScrutinizer05	(Can't it just try to read from it and if nothing comes that it expects assume it doesn't want to flash anything?) that's precisely what ROMBOOT and NOLO do	23:54
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: so, I don't need to disconnect it every time?	23:55
DocScrutinizer05	every which time?	23:55
fasta_	DocScrutinizer05: every time I reboot the n900.	23:55
DocScrutinizer05	nah	23:55
fasta_	I also figured out how to shoot in .dng format.	23:55
fasta_	Likely that's raw.	23:55
fasta_	Then pictures seem to look good.	23:55
fasta_	I don't know how to do the same for the camera, though.	23:56
fasta_	I.e. video.	23:56
DocScrutinizer05	raw video? have fun with that ;-P	23:56
Raimu	So how'd you make 'em .dng?	23:56
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fasta_	Raimu: fcamera did that.	23:57
Raimu	Ah, yes.	23:57
fasta_	Is there any way to show these on the n900 too?	23:57
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	23:57
DocScrutinizer05	maybe there's a dng-viewer app?	23:57
Raimu	I think there's some sorta "RAW viewer" in extras somewhere.	23:57
Raimu	Haven't tested.	23:58

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