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| MrPingu | Hi | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| MrPingu | Has anybody here experience with opensuse? | 00:14 |
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| peterbjornx | a bit | 00:26 |
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| MrPingu | Well how much crap has in it? | 00:26 |
| peterbjornx | ? | 00:27 |
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| MrPingu_ | I mean how much application has it in it I probably won't use and other settings/features? | 00:31 |
| MrPingu_ | Ubuntu had too much crap to my likings ;) | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu_: for openSuse that is up to your sole discretion, when selecting which packets to install | 00:34 |
| MrPingu_ | Thank you | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no nonsense like ubuntu vs kubuntu, with openSuse. You select your preferred desktop, your apps, ans you even got reasonable profiles to do a preselection for you, and you still can tweak them to all your liking | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | like "desktop", "workstation", "server" younameit | 00:37 |
| MrPingu_ | Seems what I am after, arch is bit too much for now ;) | 00:37 |
| MrPingu_ | Besides I like KDE :) | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | on newest openSuse KDE3 resurrected, means it's optional again | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | (of course kde4 latest is available, if you wondered) | 00:39 |
| MrPingu_ | I read that ;) | 00:39 |
| peterbjornx | is it possible to enable the av out on bootup | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: ?? | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: on which platform, to do what? | 00:41 |
| reiu | god damn | 00:42 |
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| MrPingu_ | whatsup reiu? | 00:43 |
| MrPingu_ | hmm useful visit ^^ | 00:44 |
| peterbjornx | n900 | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to show Video? | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think that's working "automagically" | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll confirm for you in a few minutes (after newsflash) | 01:09 |
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| peterbjornx | fb con doesnt work on video out | 01:20 |
| MrPingu_ | G2G, bye! | 01:20 |
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| cehteh | blubb | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | video out is almost like a separate fb | 01:39 |
| cehteh | dockane_: NAC is the measured cell capacity? | 01:39 |
| cehteh | err DocScrutinizer ^^ | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: see bq27k-detail | 01:40 |
| cehteh | yes i am looking at it, trying to interpret it | 01:40 |
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| ShadowJK | Remaining charge | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | (Nominal Available Capacity) | 01:41 |
| cehteh | lshal tells me 1200something mah .. bq27k detail tell NAC == 1500mah | 01:41 |
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| cehteh | anyways for the first few cycles this Cellephone battery holds fine | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | needs about 2-3 learning cycles before it starts showing accurate numbers | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | NAC Nominal Available Capacity | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | emphasis on "available" | 01:42 |
| cehteh | means till cell death? :) | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | LMD = Last Measured Discharge | 01:42 |
| cehteh | 1508mAh ... not bad for this cheap standard sized cell | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously if you charge one cell, then swap for an empty one and charge again, NAC will rise above what's possible for one cell | 01:43 |
| cehteh | ah | 01:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | The charger should normally detect a missing cell, and not do that | 01:43 |
| cehteh | can i reset the bq27 to start learning for a new cell? | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the battery gauge to show correct values, you need a (at least one) calibration cycle aka learning cycle | 01:44 |
| cehteh | i am not swapping cells often so learning for one cell would be fine for me | 01:44 |
| cehteh | i did that yesterday | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | it restes automatically on each complete discharge | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | NAC never rises above LMD | 01:44 |
| cehteh | ok | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | complete discharge - or cell absent IIRC | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | It's been a while though | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | cell absent only if it gets detected | 01:44 |
| cehteh | well complete discharge .. is that the phone (bmq induced) shutdown? | 01:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | indeed | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | bq27x00 is bad at detecting cell absence, as that's not what it's designed for | 01:45 |
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| ShadowJK | Besides, then it'd reset to the eeprom values, which default to 2000-ish mAh :P | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: usually yes, if you don't discharge too rapidly | 01:45 |
| cehteh | i'd like to reset the bq27x | 01:45 |
| ShadowJK | I have about 40% success rate with discharging to bme shutdown threshold | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed | 01:46 |
| cehteh | bur well i think over time it will adapt to the new cell | 01:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | The BME shutdown, and the bq learn threshold on many devices are the same | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | So it will randomly either learn, not learn, or learn sometimes. | 01:47 |
| cehteh | borked :P | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | The device needs to remain on for 10(?) seconds after the low voltage threshold is hit for it to register | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | you can of course stop bme to make it learn | 01:47 |
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| cehteh | i was hearing webradio until it suddenly shut down | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | (./bq27200 5) | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure thing is to stop bme until EDVF=1 | 01:48 |
| cehteh | from first battery warning to shutdown in a instant | 01:48 |
| cehteh | ok trying that | 01:48 |
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| cehteh | so now someone has only to fix the mce bug disabling the led when there is to much light on the als | 01:51 |
| cehteh | i really wonder how this got broken | 01:51 |
| cehteh | an attempt to dim the notification led with ambient light? .. never completed? | 01:51 |
| cehteh | would be nice if it worked :P | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme | 01:52 |
| cehteh | i have just ./bq27200 5 running | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hah, I even got an icon for that | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 01:54 |
| cehteh | TTE=244 .. | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | just in case some lurker wonders: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | is VDQ 1? | 01:55 |
| cehteh | with wlan and webradio the phone sucks amazingly much power unfortunally | 01:55 |
| cehteh | yes, what is VDQ? | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | valid discharge | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | if it's 1, it will learn. If it's 0, it will ignore | 01:56 |
| cehteh | ok | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | Gets set to 1 on full charge. Gets set to 0 when you start charging. | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it goes to 0 when some unusual conditions make it think the learning cycle won't result in a good calibration | 01:56 |
| cehteh | ok .. let it drain and dont connect :) | 01:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | VDQ Valid Discharge flag. Learning cycle in progress." | 01:57 |
| cehteh | does it multiple learning cycles and integrate them or only one? .. or constantly, tries to learn with each cycle? | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | just one | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Tries to learn with every qualified learning cycle | 01:59 |
| cehteh | ok | 02:00 |
| cehteh | so other work now .. :) bbl | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | And changes the NAC by at most 1/8th each time | 02:00 |
| Sc0rpius | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57432462-37/siri-says-nokia-lumia-900-the-best-smartphone-ever/ | 02:00 |
| Sc0rpius | that's so funny :) | 02:00 |
| ShadowJK | Maximum change of battery capacity is 1/6th though, and original eeprom programmed capacity is 2000-ish, so to get to real battery capacity, the first learning cycles goes 2000-2000/6 = 1666, then 1388.. | 02:01 |
| ShadowJK | (rounded) | 02:01 |
| ShadowJK | oh I thought it was 1/6th | 02:01 |
| ShadowJK | could be 1/8th though I guess :P | 02:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm 93.4% certain it's 1/8th | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's 1/8 and afaik not NAC, as NAC is the currently available netto mAh in battery | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd think it's LMD | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vs "ILMD Initial Last Measured Discharge" | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 02:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | LMD sets NAC | 02:06 |
| cehteh | btw, does tizen allow nativ applications and had a reasonable standard userland? | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | (at 100%) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is *0x100 * 3.57 / 20 = 2062 mAh fabcoded cell capacity | 02:06 |
| * cehteh not looked it it yet | 02:06 | |
| * SpeedEvil points to #tizen | 02:06 | |
| * SpeedEvil has no idea | 02:06 | |
| cehteh | just in case someone here knows, i dont want to know details | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yep, LMD sets NAC when charge end detected | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: watch your ./bq27200 5 and you'll learn to interprete the values | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically it's simple: NAC gets set to LMD when cell gets charged to 100%. Then it counts down based on actual current drawn from battery | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it might even get negative | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | when battery voltage reaches EDVF, NAC gets set to 0, and LMD gets adjusted to new measured discharge capacity (by max 1/8 off from last value) | 02:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now you charge battery, and when it's full again, NAC gets set to new LMD value | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. to the total delta value of NAC from last discharge | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so in theory NAC now should reach 0 exactly when EDVF kicks in | 02:14 |
| cehteh | yes, i known that, i was just confused by some unplausible values and the way it does things in detail | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: AV out works from first progress indicator dot jumping | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: it doesn't work for NOLO (NOKIA screen) | 02:48 |
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| cehteh | damn new battery ... | 03:22 |
| cehteh | it doesnt want to drain :/ .. seems this becoming a long night :P | 03:23 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 03:23 |
| ShadowJK | What's the voltage and current drain (mA)? | 03:23 |
| cehteh | i should keep display on :P | 03:23 |
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| cehteh | i push it to -390 mA :) | 03:24 |
| cehteh | -510 :) | 03:24 |
| cehteh | running an update | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | voltage? | 03:24 |
| cehteh | 3743 .. still 947mah left | 03:25 |
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| cehteh | (well thats inprecise) | 03:25 |
| cehteh | whats the end voltage for bq27x? | 03:25 |
| ShadowJK | start gpsjinni or somethning, adds 80mA | 03:25 |
| ShadowJK | 3248 | 03:25 |
| cehteh | outch .. long way to go :) | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | well it's not entirely predictable, voltage will vary between batteries | 03:26 |
| cehteh | display on is the best sucker | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | the japod battery I'm using maintains 3600-3700 or more for amazingly long, but then it collapses pretty fast when approaching empty | 03:27 |
| cehteh | i am happy that this is a standard sized battery | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | Also streaming netradio on 3g is biggest drain I've found :) | 03:27 |
| cehteh | (otterbox ..) | 03:27 |
| cehteh | i am streaming netradio on wlan | 03:28 |
| cehteh | -647 mA ... record :) | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0x77: 119 SEDVF Scaled EDVF Threshold R/W | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | +0x100)*8 = 3000 mV (@ 0%) | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0x78: 150 SEDV1 Scaled EDV1 Threshold R/W | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | +0x100)*8 = 3248 mV (@ 6.25%) | 03:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think I got over an amp once | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's like 2+A possible, but not continuously | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Flashlight + camera + 3g + wifi + .md5sum | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Over an amp isn't hard | 03:35 |
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| cehteh | i dont want to fry my device :) | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | also makes for a poor learning cycle | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Much more than you will normally use understates the capacity | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500mA +/- are just fine | 03:36 |
| cehteh | what disables the geotagging in the CSSU camera app? i always have to reenable it | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 03:37 |
| cehteh | exactly | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | MAGIC! | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a privacy feature—it detects when the NSA is sniffing your GPS connection. Duh. | 03:40 |
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| * ShadowJK managed 1.2-1.3A continously | 04:01 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: anyway, your battery should reach end of discharge meanwhile, even at 500mA avrg ? | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: what'S the voltage now? | 04:06 |
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| cehteh | haha :) not yet 3697mV | 04:11 |
| cehteh | i was in the kitchen and it switched to 3G | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: video over 3g | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | argh - silly scroll | 04:12 |
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| cehteh | TTE 100 ... | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't mean a thing, since it's not calibrated | 04:12 |
| cehteh | (turned display off, just normal discharge, no extra sucking) | 04:12 |
| cehteh | yeah but 3650 mV is still plenty left | 04:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually not | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ~30%ish? | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's dropping rapidly once it reaches 3600 | 04:13 |
| cehteh | thats plenty when you wait for it draining :) | 04:14 |
| ShadowJK | depends on battery, my original bl-5)s spend majority of discharge around 36xx | 04:14 |
| cehteh | i know lipo discharge curves | 04:14 |
| ShadowJK | this is lipo | 04:14 |
| cehteh | yes | 04:15 |
| ShadowJK | But optimized for max energy density, not optimized for power like the RC lipos are :P | 04:15 |
| cehteh | anyways discharge curves are similar in some ways .. there is some quite long linearity in the middle | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | watch voltage delta | 04:16 |
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| cehteh | some people consider RC batteries empty at 3800mV | 04:16 |
| cehteh | (without load) | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds reasonable | 04:17 |
| cehteh | yep, while i think 3600 should be ok still, but the big packs are still expensive | 04:18 |
| cehteh | for my heli, a battery costs 2.80 Eur, i dont overly care | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, I just see you got 3697, not 3650 | 04:18 |
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| cehteh | but when you have 12S batteries with 4000mAh then its really expensive | 04:19 |
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| cehteh | well differing load it varies quite much | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:19 |
| ShadowJK | I just stop flying when loaded voltage dips below 3.7, because some other cell might be lower | 04:20 |
| cehteh | one reads 3633 another 3660 | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's root cause why calibration is so unreliably happening | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | if it was single-cell pack I'd fly to 3.2 :) | 04:20 |
| cehteh | there are voltage watchdogs which watch each single cell .. | 04:20 |
| cehteh | but they warn at 3.3V (with load then) .. if you then start looking for a landing place, thats quite late | 04:21 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 04:22 |
| cehteh | my ESC shuts down around 3.4V .. so ok for me (and i still dont fly until that happens) | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | I also don't land first attempt usually ;) | 04:22 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders how much cehteh 's battery voltage dropped since last reading | 04:22 | |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: airplane? | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | heli | 04:22 |
| cehteh | 3644 last reading | 04:22 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: which one? | 04:23 |
| cehteh | tiny V120D02S here :) | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | a lame fixed pitch. Esky honeybee 2 | 04:23 |
| cehteh | ah ok ... then mine is even biggier :) | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | it's about 300grams | 04:23 |
| cehteh | \o/ .. that happens rarely | 04:24 |
| cehteh | oh.. mine is 100gramms .. but CP and torque driven | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like 300kg | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly not powered by LiPo | 04:24 |
| cehteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RKLggne0E << dont try that at home | 04:25 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer; actually there's on youtube a LiPo driven multirotor contraption with a passenger | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil will listen up on that | 04:26 |
| ShadowJK | I think I want something hevier than 300grams for outdoor. My current heli isn't that good when there's wind, and too big for indoors | 04:26 |
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| cehteh | ShadowJK: go CP .. my 100gram heli holds even well in strong wind | 04:27 |
| cehteh | its FP sux in wind | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a hoverboard sketch. | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ~60kg, capable of free flight, ~1m*1m | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | Also, geared etrm sucks | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | 2G accelleration. | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Close-packed array of small ducted fans, and a lot of fast LiPo | 04:29 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:29 |
| cehteh | 3615mv ... | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: watch it drop now | 04:30 |
| cehteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgECnfhJlTI 2G? .. pah :), i dont even want to know how much G a goblin has | 04:30 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: 3625 :P | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh yeah - that nutter | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw | 04:32 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU - even more G | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | see table2 | 04:32 |
| ShadowJK | tareq's style is just sick | 04:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I think I worked out those slope soarers were pulling in excess of 40G | 04:33 |
| ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png | 04:33 |
| cehteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaOCIqJWLc that takeoff is awesome | 04:34 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: 3591 ... | 04:35 |
| cehteh | ok now it goes down | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya, when reaching 3600 it goes down rapidly | 04:36 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, mV? | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 04:36 |
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| cehteh | lowbat blinking | 04:41 |
| Hurrian | running it down to zero? | 04:42 |
| cehteh | 3313 mV ... and device died | 04:42 |
| cehteh | thats not going to work with learning :P | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | you didn't stop bme? | 04:43 |
| cehteh | ./bq27200 disables bme? | 04:43 |
| cehteh | ohno | 04:44 |
| cehteh | damn | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | try switch it on anyways ;-) | 04:44 |
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| cehteh | i do | 04:45 |
| cehteh | err .. shuts down, needs a little charge | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | plug to charger, boot, start >>stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme<<, unplug | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | or rather, first unplug, immediately after unplugging, stop bme | 04:47 |
| cehteh | first i need it to boot up, well i can do another learning cycle | 04:47 |
| cehteh | how well does ./bq27200 handle charging? | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, not at all | 04:47 |
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| cehteh | wasnt there some other script which programs the charging? | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's largely unrelated to charge handling | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't need any of that | 04:48 |
| cehteh | there was something to poke the charge current | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | boot it up with charger plugged in, start bq27200.sh, stop bme, unplug | 04:49 |
| cehteh | yep | 04:49 |
| cehteh | well i need to wait a bit to boot, else i dont get to the point to stop bme | 04:50 |
| cehteh | or i do the whole thing tomorrow with a new cycle | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, you discharged too quick (or too slow?), it had no chance to reach 3248 mV | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | for a sufficiently long period | 04:51 |
| cehteh | thats not about chance .. thats bme's fault | 04:51 |
| cehteh | i forgot to kick it | 04:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I have several bq27200.sh 5 logs where calibration aka learning cycle succeeded with bme running | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Same here | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | 95% of the time - not | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on battery, and on load characteristics | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Cycle Count since Learning: 24 | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Total Cycle Count since last full reset: 93 | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | either bme cuts out immediately when voltage drops under 3200mV, while bq27200 needs 5s @ <3248 | 04:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or bme cuts out on >60s at <3300mV, while bq.... | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it's like the first one | 05:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | The logs I have say BME triggers exactly on the point of the low voltage flag going on | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | so too much ripple in load current will cause bme kick in before bq can detect laerning cycle finished at EDV1 | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's reading it is an interesting question | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, my logs of successful learning cycles with bme are like shutdown by bme max 120s after CI->0 | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and they all are @ <300mA | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you managed to restart discharging? | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | (and I honestly hope for you it won't go VDQ->0) | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | (but probably it will, as you will charge it anyway, to get it booting) | 05:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so: >> while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | even | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | so: >> while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme | 05:11 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i just charge it full and make another cycle | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: that'S exactly what this oneliner 'script' does, automagically | 05:14 |
| cehteh | to lazy to type it in on the n900 keyboard :P | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | stop bme causes charging to stop, discharging to start | 05:15 |
| cehteh | n900 is connected to my wlan which is outside of my office network | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's charging until battery full, then stops bme, discharging takes place, until bq27200 completes learning cycle, where bme gets started so it doesn't even shut down (hopefully) but rather charges battery again | 05:16 |
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| cehteh | well i need a full battery tomorrow and no experiments | 05:16 |
| cehteh | can do that next night or another day | 05:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer just starts exactly that line now, via WLAN ssh | 05:17 | |
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| cehteh | i have a little strange network setup, the n900 is not reachable :P .. | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, some syntax error | 05:17 |
| cehteh | shall make openvpn work again :) | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, it works as expected, seems it runs straight to the end since my CI=0 and my battery is already completely charged | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | on second test it's waiting for bme / bq24150 stopping the charging that kicked in on >> start bme << of last run | 05:20 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: stop, do something else :P .. i know how to shellscript too :P | 05:21 |
| cehteh | but i am just now not after it | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/168417/ | 05:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, you don't think I'm doing that just for you, do you? ;-P | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, for those interested in it and not looking at the pastie above: | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | while bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme | 05:26 |
| cehteh | nope .. make a git init .. commit it and then lets make some useable scripts from it :) | 05:26 |
| cehteh | you have some place to host git? otherwise you can get an account on my server | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH, not going to pkg that | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | and for sure no git | 05:27 |
| cehteh | nope not package, just some place where we can volunatry improve these scripts | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sth that' | 05:27 |
| cehteh | duh :P | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | S basically a shellscript 4 liner | 05:28 |
| cehteh | yes still .. things improve over time and you could add the other bq* scripts as well | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | might end in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/ | 05:28 |
| cehteh | if you want so | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | or even http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/ | 05:29 |
| cehteh | i just always use git :) | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd for sure do that as well, if I was used to use git | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | since I'm not... | 05:29 |
| cehteh | could be a start :) | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | way too much overhead | 05:30 |
| cehteh | not really | 05:30 |
| cehteh | git scales with how you use it . and that also into the small project direction | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | the learning curve doesn't | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | or at least the howtos don't | 05:38 |
| cehteh | you can ask me .. and for basic git usage a handful commands and actions are enouh | 05:41 |
| cehteh | basically just add, commit and push | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, just to pick then out of the plethora is a PITA | 05:41 |
| cehteh | and in few cases merge | 05:42 |
| cehteh | well you decision | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess a mere >git add bq27200-calibration.sh<< won't get me anywhere but to a breathtaking manpage | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | for now I'm probably absolutely served by handling clearcase at work | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and from that and basic understanding of how a CVS works, I guess I have to create a entity prior to using simple commands like add, commit, push | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | installing git on N900 should prove fun | 05:48 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 05:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | git --help add; YAY /o\ | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | "add to the index" MHM | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels like even clearcase is simpler - it only needs me to create a view, then checkout files in that view if I want to edit them, add files I create in that view, and finally checkin again | 05:53 |
| Sc0rpius | it's a pity there's no library to develop a new protocol for Conversations in Qt :( | 05:53 |
| Sc0rpius | I think I'm starting to hate Glib | 05:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe git add -A is a useful cmd for simple low-profile approach | 05:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | next: "commit" | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, man git-commit >>The content to be added can be specified in several ways: ... 4. by using the -a switch with the commit command to automatically "add" changes from all known files<< | 05:59 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: i have git on the n900 ... its packaged in the devel stuff | 05:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders why add is needed then, at all | 05:59 | |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes, in git you prepare commits before doing them | 06:00 |
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| cehteh | thats quite useful because sometimes you dont want to commit ALL the changes you did | 06:00 |
| cehteh | and you may ignore the details because, in many cases you dont need to know | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly my concern | 06:01 |
| cehteh | there is a git commit -a for add all .. like CVS | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no "simple usage" of git | 06:01 |
| cehteh | (i never use that but weell) | 06:01 |
| cehteh | there is | 06:01 |
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| cehteh | well i go to bed .. if you *really* want to try I would offer you my help .. but i dont want to push you and i dont want to waste time if you are not interested | 06:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm interested how that simple usage would look like | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | for now it's a | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly as I expected: look at manpage, gasp, shrug, turn away | 06:03 |
| cehteh | yes thats wrong :) ... | 06:04 |
| cehteh | there is information overload and many many ways how to do things | 06:04 |
| cehteh | 95% or more you dont need for simple usage | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no way to spot the 5% | 06:04 |
| cehteh | i introduced a lot people to git, worked well | 06:05 |
| cehteh | but not know .. ask me another day | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd for sure appreciate such introduction | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 06:06 |
| cehteh | btw .. if you like to make it to FrOSCon this year, we (lumeira) team making a small/open git workshop | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt my daywork will allow that | 06:06 |
| cehteh | the conference is on weekend | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | (messing around with ClearCase, you know) | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, when? | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | where? | 06:07 |
| cehteh | http://www.froscon.de/startseite/ | 06:07 |
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| cehteh | St Augustin (near Bonn) | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be fun | 06:08 |
| cehteh | it is very much fun .. | 06:08 |
| cehteh | thats my favorite conference every year | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I may see if I can get a day off at work to travel there | 06:09 |
| cehteh | smallish enough not to get lost, big enough to meet a lot opensource people | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | not too far from my QTH | 06:09 |
| cehteh | yeah we arrive on friday too, usually help setup at afternoon | 06:09 |
| cehteh | yoo prolly have to hurry for hotel rooms :) | 06:10 |
| cehteh | (as every year) | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | any recommendations? | 06:10 |
| cehteh | nope | 06:11 |
| cehteh | well we have a extremely cheap but okish one | 06:11 |
| cehteh | they stil had 2 single rooms free last time i asked | 06:11 |
| cehteh | well there is the Hotel Regina close to the conference .. but its usually first booked out, more expensive, and ugly :) | 06:12 |
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| teotwaki_ | if anyone knows the answer to this, please do reach out: Hi, I'm creating a UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, and it is correctly shown as 0.0.0.0:port or *:port in lsof/netstat, but as soon as I call connect() on it, it automatically binds to a specific interface. Here's a testcase: http://ideone.com/IKcUr | 08:49 |
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| jkyro | isn't that the expected behavior? Calling connect() on an UDP socket implies that you are going to send all traffic to a specific IP which cannot change | 08:58 |
| teotwaki_ | jkyro: yes, but it doesn't say anything about the interface on which you'll listen. | 08:58 |
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| jkyro | you can't both listen and connect a socket | 08:59 |
| jkyro | or, if you want to do that, don't call connect(), instead use sendmsg | 08:59 |
| teotwaki_ | yes, you can listen and connect. | 09:00 |
| teotwaki_ | Why couldn't you? | 09:00 |
| jkyro | connect() effectively means that the socket will only accept data from the IP you are connecting to | 09:00 |
| teotwaki_ | well, maybe not listen, but receive data, and discard the data that comes from another ip:port combination | 09:00 |
| jkyro | I'm not actually sure about that | 09:01 |
| jkyro | might be totally wrong about this | 09:01 |
| jkyro | but that's what I'd expect | 09:01 |
| jkyro | because when you are telling the socket to connect(), you are implying that yhou want to converse with this specific IP | 09:01 |
| teotwaki_ | that's what I said :) | 09:02 |
| teotwaki_ | jkyro: my issue is not with the conversing to and from a specific IP | 09:03 |
| teotwaki_ | jkyro: it's with the fact that even though I provide INADDR_ANY, the socket ends up bound on a specific interface. | 09:03 |
| jkyro | ok, what is it then? :) | 09:03 |
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| teotwaki_ | and I have no control over said interface | 09:04 |
| teotwaki_ | I *think* the interface is chosen based on whether or not it can reach the ip:port combination provided during connect() | 09:04 |
| teotwaki_ | but I have no idea. | 09:04 |
| teotwaki_ | And I have no way of predicting which interface it'll pick. | 09:05 |
| jkyro | the interface is chosen based on the usual routing rules I suppose | 09:05 |
| teotwaki_ | except it shouldn't | 09:05 |
| teotwaki_ | you can't go from INADDR_ANY to one single interface, just like that. | 09:05 |
| jkyro | of course not, it depends on the destination IP | 09:05 |
| teotwaki_ | that completely breaks the whole behaviour of INADDR_ANY | 09:06 |
| teotwaki_ | To give you an example, our servers have 8 IP addresses. | 09:06 |
| teotwaki_ | One for RTP traffic, one for SIP, one for SSH, one for... | 09:07 |
| jkyro | how many interfaces are there then+ | 09:08 |
| teotwaki_ | well, 9 | 09:08 |
| teotwaki_ | When a call arrives on the SIP interface, we open a new UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, grab the port we received, and reply "sure, send your RTP data to <RTP_IP>:port" | 09:08 |
| teotwaki_ | but, when we did the connect() on the UDP socket, instead of listening on all interfaces, as INADDR_ANY is supposed to | 09:08 |
| teotwaki_ | it bound to SSH_IP. | 09:08 |
| teotwaki_ | so we don't get any data. | 09:08 |
| jkyro | ok, so why don't you bind it to the specific interface then? | 09:09 |
| jkyro | *RTP specific | 09:09 |
| teotwaki_ | yes, that'd be the obvious workaround, and the one I'll be implementing in 30 minutes or so | 09:09 |
| teotwaki_ | but that doesn't take away the fact that this is some serious breakage. | 09:09 |
| jkyro | huh? | 09:10 |
| teotwaki_ | I'm specifically telling the socket to not bind to a specific interface, and it does just that. | 09:10 |
| jkyro | not before you call connect on it | 09:11 |
| teotwaki_ | but the man pages or POSIX standard don't say anything about changing the scope of a socket when calling connect() on it. | 09:11 |
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| teotwaki_ | jkyro: basically, I'm suspecting either a bug in either POSIX or the UDP stack, I'm just trying to get confirmation of it. The problem I have is I can't believe I would've stumbled upon such a bug. | 09:13 |
| teotwaki_ | anyway, enough of that. Going for a jog. Waking up at 6AM on a saturday just to write a testcase for some obscure behaviour is just sad. | 09:16 |
| jkyro | connect spec says "If the socket has not already been bound to a local address, connect() shall bind it to an address which, unless the socket's address family is AF_UNIX, is an unused local address." | 09:17 |
| teotwaki_ | jkyro: where did you see that? | 09:18 |
| jkyro | this one http://www.unix.com/man-page/posix/3posix/connect/ | 09:18 |
| teotwaki_ | shoot | 09:19 |
| teotwaki_ | ubuntu/mint's man pages suck then. | 09:19 |
| jkyro | it's a bug in the man pages then | 09:21 |
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| jkyro | unless the intention is only to augment the posix/whatever spec with linux-specific info | 09:22 |
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| teotwaki_ | Asking a friend in ##linux | 09:22 |
| jkyro | I don't know who actually provides the man pages, libc maybe | 09:24 |
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| teotwaki_ | Also, how do you know a specific version of Linux conforms to a specific verison of POSIX? | 09:26 |
| teotwaki_ | I mean, that page was last updated in 2003, apparently | 09:26 |
| teotwaki_ | so, when when did libc implement it? | 09:26 |
| teotwaki_ | jkyro: thanks a bunch, you've been an amazing help | 09:28 |
| teotwaki_ | here, you get to be on top of the world today | 09:28 |
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| jkyro | np, glad to help | 09:29 |
| jkyro | and thanks :) | 09:29 |
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| Darkchaos | Hey Guys, I backed up my Phone yesterday after reflash, but now I'm missing conversation logs and phone call history | 10:12 |
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| Tofe | Hi ! | 12:21 |
| LaoLang_cool | Hi, after I changed system font to consolas, in conversation window, the text is broken into another line after the contact avaster, what's wrong? | 12:24 |
| LaoLang_cool | In default font, the test is followed after the avaster | 12:25 |
| LaoLang_cool | s/avaster/avatar/ | 12:25 |
| infobot | LaoLang_cool meant: In default font, the test is followed after the avatar | 12:25 |
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| LaoLang_cool | please recommended a font for maemo :) | 13:42 |
| chem|st | LaoLang_cool: $default? | 13:45 |
| LaoLang_cool | chem|st, I want to have a change :) | 13:45 |
| chem|st | i like console sans... ;) | 13:46 |
| Tofe | I have a font named "Ubuntu", from the "Carbon Steel" theme | 13:51 |
| wesk77 | i like DejaVu Sans | 13:52 |
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| tgalal | LaoLang_cool: Nokia pure http://brandbook.nokia.com/blog/view/item62250/ | 14:14 |
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| Macer | tgalal: uhm... seriously? lol | 14:27 |
| Macer | wtf cares about a font? :) | 14:27 |
| Macer | lolz! and unless you are an artist you probably wouldn't even notice the difference | 14:28 |
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| tgalal | Macer: it's LaoLang_cool who was asking, not me :D | 14:29 |
| tgalal | and I do like that Nokia pure font | 14:29 |
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| Macer | it just seems so cosmetic | 14:34 |
| Macer | our stock is in the gutter | 14:34 |
| Macer | but look at this awesome new font? | 14:34 |
| wesk77 | i had problems with special characters in my mp3s id3 tags with the stock font | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohwell | 14:45 |
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| OkropNick | LaoLang_cool: Nokia Pure | 14:55 |
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| * RST38h moos evilly, sacrifices a hampster to the Tentacled One | 15:05 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/ | 15:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer orders two glasses 100g vodka for RST38h and himself | 15:22 | |
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| SpeedEvil | " The Complaint alleges that Nokia, a provider of telecommunications infrastructure hardware, software, and services, and certain of its officers and directors violated the federal securities laws. Specifically, it is alleged that during the Class Period, defendants told investors that Nokia's conversion to a Windows platform would halt its deteriorating position in the smartphone market. It did not. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-shuman-law-firm-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-nokia-corporation-2012-05-11 | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.allboutn9.info/2012/05/nokia-management-gone-crazy-n9-banned.html?m=1 | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - saw that too. | 15:31 |
| * SpeedEvil in principle could afford a n9 at the moment. | 15:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | my personal take on that is: Somebody at Nokia finally decided you can't do FOSS on embedded, as there's always some moron publishing the acme OC app, and Nokia end up servicing fried devices on warranty | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | The chances of me purchasing one are rather small. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I doubt OC is at all relevant. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Utterly, utterly so. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Consider the reported defect rate on the modem and USB | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Even worst-case OC, I doubt you'd claim that 10% of devices will die from it. | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | but Nokia's technically based decisions at marketing level never been so sound | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - who knows what the 'real' reasons are. | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | We will never know them. | 15:33 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd laugh if both cases are related.. meego instance is selling better than lumia and nokia is trying to hide meego instance | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Not impossible. | 15:37 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes he owned a lot of nokia stock, so he had a better picture. | 15:38 | |
| * SpeedEvil looks at share price graph. | 15:38 | |
| * SpeedEvil retracts that thought. | 15:38 | |
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| * psycho_oreos wastes time spent on wishing a slow and painful death on Stephen FLOP along with the rest of nokia's FLOPxecutives like the 15% or so web developers spending time on wishing a slow and painful death on bill gates. He isn't going to retract that thought either... | 15:52 | |
| k273 | what away to spend your time, psycho_oreos | 15:53 |
| psycho_oreos | k273, at least its not time wasted on not doing anything ;) | 15:54 |
| k273 | ha | 15:55 |
| k273 | my time is wasted waiting for the /usr/bin/hildon-input-desktop to stop eating my resource | 15:56 |
| k273 | =( | 15:56 |
| k273 | I still can't do nothing about it | 15:56 |
| psycho_oreos | you can probably renice it, though it won't stop hildon-input-desktop from eating away resources | 15:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | renicing it to something like 40 or something lol | 15:58 |
| k273 | how, psycho_oreos ? | 15:59 |
| k273 | any help is appreciated | 15:59 |
| * psycho_oreos needs to dig out his N900 | 16:00 | |
| k273 | thanks, if not bothering you, psycho_oreos | 16:00 |
| psycho_oreos | not that it bothers me, moreso is that it reminds me of many things | 16:01 |
| k273 | I hope good ones =) | 16:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | yeah if I smoke weed it'll be good ones :D | 16:03 |
| k273 | lol | 16:03 |
| k273 | (wanna share?) | 16:03 |
| k273 | XD | 16:03 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't smoke weed unfortunately :) but just the thought of it is nice | 16:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | seems like renice is included in maemo as standard | 16:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | renice -n 20 `pgrep hildon-input-desktop` | 16:06 |
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| k273 | ah then? | 16:09 |
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| psycho_oreos | check the process, it should have 20 under nice field.. and your device shouldn't be bogged down. Though like I said, it'll only re-prioritise th{at,ose} thread(s), the thread(s) will still be running away churning resources but it won't heavily affect the overall performance of the device | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | k273: that's a terrible defect in either sw or hw. You dhould try to find out what's causing this problem, and fix it for good. renicing doesn't help anything basically | 16:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | still renicing may help in one able to pull up debuggers I suppose if its not hw issue | 16:11 |
| k273 | DocScrutinizer: yeah, thanks, DocScrutinizer, but it's getting annoying and while waiting to buy another n900 any tweak is wanted =) | 16:12 |
| k273 | possibly the HW | 16:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check your interrupts | 16:13 |
| k273 | Shift + Ctrl won't open character map | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | strace! | 16:13 |
| k273 | strace? | 16:13 |
| psycho_oreos | debugger tool | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so this might be a stuck key on kbd | 16:14 |
| psycho_oreos | well one of the many debugging tools | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | waaaaaiiiit! SHIFT+ctrl? | 16:14 |
| trx | isn't it alt+ctrl? | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | never did anything | 16:14 |
| k273 | eh | 16:15 |
| k273 | blue+ctrl | 16:15 |
| k273 | sorry my bad | 16:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so is blue+<number> working? is ctrl+C working in xterm? | 16:15 |
| k273 | working | 16:15 |
| k273 | working | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ODD! | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth fsckd up with your vkbd I guess | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should reflash | 16:16 |
| k273 | =( | 16:16 |
| k273 | okay | 16:16 |
| psycho_oreos | probably because its hildon-input-desktop hogging the CPU and is not responding | 16:16 |
| k273 | I thought that way too | 16:16 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd ssh in and try to fix it from there, at least you can get a proper keyboard for starters | 16:17 |
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| k273 | wait wait slow down, noob here. ssh in? | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | do a double full backup (backupmenu, cp all from MyDocs and ~user, do a 'normal' backup as well), then reflash to recent 1.3 and test without restoring *anything* | 16:18 |
| k273 | last resort is reflashing | 16:18 |
| k273 | okay | 16:18 |
| psycho_oreos | SSH = remote console (well in unix/unix-like terms :)) | 16:19 |
| k273 | oh | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | best practice: store all backups to uSD | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssh secure shell | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka 'puTTY' | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 16:20 |
| psycho_oreos | if you didn't know what that meant, you're kinda a little late for all that necessary debugging knowledge and know how. Though I'd try and trace back to what you did last that screwed up your vkbd and see if you can `undo' it | 16:20 |
| psycho_oreos | real geeks have linux boxens not puTTY ;) | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I recall k273 complaining about that problem like months ago | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | so odds are it's hard to recall what's been last suspicious action done | 16:21 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, and he hasn't fixed it since then? lol ouch | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | k273: if I mixed up your case with a similar one, sorry | 16:22 |
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| k273 | yes I think you mixed it up alright DocScrutinizer, but no need to sorry =) | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | one of my outstanding issues is similar to that (in terms of procrastinating...) | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, so your case isn't unique at least :-D | 16:23 |
| k273 | yeah | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | and at least you have N900, with n9 you're already fscked :) | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep :-D | 16:24 |
| k273 | why, psycho_oreos ? | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | n9/HARM not really "open" | 16:24 |
| psycho_oreos | << fscked his vkbd on his n9 awhile back.. and because he has a lock code to be asked at boot, he cannot get into the device without a keyboard :) | 16:25 |
| psycho_oreos | its what you get with a device like IPHONE WANNABE and you try to tinker with it... | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia invested considerable effort into a security framework aimed at keeping users away from internals like that | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: couldn't have stated it better | 16:26 |
| k273 | wow. thanks for the info guys. I guess I'm lucky I didn't bought it | 16:26 |
| psycho_oreos | they've even went to the extent of providing N950 to developers only INSTEAD of also providing one to tinkerers | 16:26 |
| k273 | wanna have 2 or 3 more used n900 | 16:27 |
| Hurrian | k273, they're not that hard to come by | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | k273: reasonable idea | 16:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer got 3 already | 16:27 | |
| psycho_oreos | though I'd be wary of the conditions of secondary/tertiary/subsequent N900 | 16:27 |
| k273 | I figure as much psycho_oreos | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 16:27 |
| * psycho_oreos has 3 (+1 broken screen..) N900 | 16:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I'm still very interested in stuff like that: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/ | 16:28 |
| k273 | hurrian and DocScrutinizer: yes | 16:28 |
| Hurrian | also, aegis should've been removed for the final release of harmattan, knowing that there are again, a negligible amount of commercial apps and the expectations of the maemo community | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: that would've embarrassed the inventors of aegis crap | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | also whole OVI is based on that concept | 16:29 |
| Hurrian | i mean, seriously, ONE widely-marketed MeeGo phone, and well, Nokia succesfully shot itself in the foot (again, once for every device ever) | 16:29 |
| k273 | oh | 16:30 |
| k273 | Hurrian: yeah, Nokia messed himself up these years | 16:30 |
| k273 | *itself | 16:30 |
| Hurrian | also, way back, there was a N950-looking device being called the N9 | 16:30 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, nokia shooting itself in the foot again <-- you can say that like as if its their tradition... it must be embedded in their genes or something -_- | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | more like an E7 looking device | 16:31 |
| psycho_oreos | and the N950 had a kick ass advertisement | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | or rumour thereof | 16:31 |
| Hurrian | could the N950 be the actual device, until people complained that the slider was wonky? | 16:31 |
| k273 | may be | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite probably, Hurrian | 16:32 |
| Hurrian | i mean, why make an ad for a device for developers? | 16:32 |
| Hurrian | it was pretty abstract, but it was cool | 16:32 |
| psycho_oreos | it was before Flop came in | 16:32 |
| Hurrian | oh yeah, regarding hardware, i believe that the N9 and N950 were frozen quite some time ago, and thawed right after the Elopocalypse | 16:33 |
| psycho_oreos | it was definitely something that would have deemed worthy of succeeding N900 but no... they had to mangle it like as if it looked nothing like its maemo ancestry | 16:34 |
| k273 | yea | 16:34 |
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| Hurrian | meh, the Elop thing totally flushed all hopes and dreams of a Maemo/MeeGo future with Nokia. | 16:39 |
| Hurrian | (which, so far, has been the only company to produce a significant amount of said devices) | 16:39 |
| k273 | yeah | 16:43 |
| k273 | can't see the same coming out from Samsung or HTC | 16:44 |
| psycho_oreos | conversely speaking, its a little refreshing to see people don't have windows everywhere either.. my brother for instance uses windows day in, day out but his phone doesn't even run windows. It goes to show that soon nokia will probably be eating its balls out | 16:44 |
| Hurrian | psycho_oreos, i've seen way less high end Nokias (almost none, in fact) and more samsung Androids | 16:46 |
| Hurrian | the iPhones and Blackberries are also declining | 16:46 |
| Hurrian | Windows Mobile (6.5 and below)? dying. | 16:46 |
| Hurrian | Windows Phone (7.x)? None at all. | 16:46 |
| psycho_oreos | top two handheld platforms that are supposedly selling like hot cakes aren't running windows | 16:46 |
| Hurrian | the WP7 fans are really quite vocal though | 16:47 |
| k273 | Hurrian: yes, everything's declining save for Androids | 16:47 |
| psycho_oreos | religious > vocal (LOL) iOS and android I'm sure would have bigger wars than any either of those two versus wp | 16:48 |
| k273 | vocal how Hurrian ? don't see them getting vocal here | 16:50 |
| psycho_oreos | they're somewhat more vocal on other tech related channels *points to channels like ##hardware for instance* | 16:50 |
| Hurrian | have a friend on IRC that takes every opportunity to soapbox about how WP7 is so perfect, so smooth and integrated, while badmouthing everything else for "lag, insecurity, it doesn't run .net, it uses a retarded language like {java,obj-c), etc etc." | 16:51 |
| Hurrian | you also see them doing the rounds on multiple websites | 16:52 |
| psycho_oreos | I've got one word for him `fanboy' | 16:52 |
| Hurrian | it's worse than iTrolls spamming "lag" and "fragmentation" about Android, really | 16:52 |
| k273 | ih | 16:53 |
| k273 | oh | 16:53 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, you know, you can point him out some statistics.. at least statistics don't lie that wp sucks | 16:54 |
| k273 | iPhone doesn't lag, lol, but simply because it doesn't multitask | 16:54 |
| psycho_oreos | and then there was that link on one of the tmo user | 16:54 |
| psycho_oreos | user's signature linking to a list of wp woes | 16:54 |
| k273 | I always have to emphasize that to an iphone user | 16:54 |
| Hurrian | "it's (WP7) just not popular enough, so we must push hard to enlighten the unwashed masses" is the motto for them | 16:55 |
| psycho_oreos | LOL | 16:55 |
| k273 | lolwut? XD | 16:55 |
| psycho_oreos | Ballmer would SO want a person like him :) | 16:56 |
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| k273 | I played with Lumia 800 several days ago | 16:56 |
| k273 | really nice screen | 16:56 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah its similar to n9 | 16:56 |
| k273 | but the 'tiles' in wp7 wasn't what I thought I'd feel | 16:56 |
| k273 | too clunky to be honest | 16:57 |
| k273 | I thought it'd be smooth | 16:57 |
| psycho_oreos | its windows.. what do you expect? | 16:57 |
| k273 | lol how tru | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait til tiles come to your desktop wincrap | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 16:58 |
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| k273 | oh I saw that too | 16:58 |
| k273 | it's a no | 16:58 |
| psycho_oreos | oh yeah that will happen too.. apparently its on win8 preview | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 16:58 |
| k273 | yep | 16:58 |
| psycho_oreos | `no more "start" menu' | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ultimately braindamaged | 16:58 |
| k273 | windows (and linux too, to be honest) are pushing everything to suit touch devices | 16:58 |
| Hurrian | something happened at MS, and it wasn't pretty. | 16:59 |
| k273 | we still have terminal =) | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | M$ killing their major clientel market: office/insdustry | 16:59 |
| k273 | but not winfanbois | 16:59 |
| psycho_oreos | ballmer has gone retro like as if disco balls should be squared | 16:59 |
| Hurrian | win7 is currently serving me well, the new stuff in win8 is worth renewing my technet for, but i do have a big gripe with the start screen | 16:59 |
| Hurrian | Windows XP had a separate SKU for tablet features, why not part it out in Windows 8? | 17:00 |
| k273 | and the always increasing demand of hardware for win, I don't like it since the first time I know PCs | 17:00 |
| Hurrian | with dism in windows vista and up, it's easy as balls to do | 17:00 |
| psycho_oreos | k273, that's how they would say to keep the hardware manufacturers afloat ;) | 17:01 |
| k273 | yep | 17:01 |
| Hurrian | k273, thankfully, we've reached the point where most hardware is "good enough", and system requirement pretty much stagnated since Vista | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: W8 is meant to be _one_ OS for _all_ | 17:01 |
| k273 | yay | 17:01 |
| psycho_oreos | too slow? time to upgrade! here, pay $$$$$ and you can enjoy it all | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't fly | 17:01 |
| k273 | psycho_oreos: that sucks, really, to the bones | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, you'll be assimilated.. not fly ;) | 17:02 |
| k273 | DocScrutinizer: and sadly that's how it goes with some linux distros too | 17:02 |
| k273 | (Ubuntu came to mind) | 17:02 |
| k273 | and Gnome3 | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | heh that's how microsoft rolls | 17:02 |
| Hurrian | now, micrsoft just has to fix that problem of Windows taking up 16 freaking GB of space on a fresh install | 17:02 |
| Hurrian | 16 frakkin GB | 17:02 |
| k273 | lol 16 fGBs? | 17:03 |
| k273 | dayum | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | buntkuh always been the windows for the cheeper fanboys | 17:03 |
| Hurrian | a fresh install of win7 sp1 occupies about that much | 17:03 |
| k273 | lol @ DocScrutinizer , really? | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | at least that's something noteworthy to talk about when people moan how long it takes to install linux and with all this 4GB of extra stuff | 17:04 |
| k273 | Hurrian: never installed one by myself, so I didn't know... | 17:04 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, I blame the Compiz jelly window rice rice rice rice video for the massive boost in popularity | 17:04 |
| k273 | what? my Linux Mint installed in 20 minutes, and I already installed it 3 times | 17:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | back when xp was `the bomb' (sic), a fresh install is nowhere near 1GB usage whereas a fully optioned popular linux distro (say fc) is around 4GB or so | 17:06 |
| k273 | ah | 17:06 |
| psycho_oreos | tables has turned.. obviously.. | 17:06 |
| k273 | yeah | 17:06 |
| Hurrian | people still haven't learned to automate something small like Arch? | 17:07 |
| k273 | I remember installing mandrake using 4 cds!! | 17:07 |
| k273 | Hurrian: apparently no | 17:07 |
| * psycho_oreos is using Arch | 17:07 | |
| psycho_oreos | k273, suse linux pro 8 (8 CDS + 1 DVD).. top that! | 17:07 |
| k273 | haha I think I can't | 17:08 |
| * psycho_oreos thinks the entire debian repository is now around 3/4 DVD full? | 17:08 | |
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| * psycho_oreos still has that suse box :) and the fancy CD/DVD holder.. afterall he paid something like AUD$200 back then | 17:09 | |
| k273 | lol | 17:09 |
| k273 | pretty expensive sentimental stuff | 17:09 |
| k273 | =) | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: yeah, those were the times | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I fetched those boxes directly in Suse's office ;-D | 17:10 |
| psycho_oreos | curiousity kills the cat obviously :) I was too eager to try linux.. and those were somewhere round my first few days/weeks of linux | 17:10 |
| jonwil | Will using Skype on the N900 drain the battery compared to normal use? And what about its use of network bandwidth? | 17:10 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, damn! well so much for living in Deutschland ^^ | 17:10 |
| k273 | =) | 17:11 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, yeah, it's pretty heavy | 17:11 |
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| k273 | as for that 4cds Mandrake, I bought a book and got the cds for free | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: it's THE battery killer | 17:11 |
| Hurrian | can't speak for network use as i'm unmetered, but video quality's pretty low | 17:11 |
| jonwil | I am not planning to use video or voice, just IM | 17:12 |
| Hurrian | ah | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't make a difference | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | skyhost always running | 17:12 |
| jonwil | ok, so what do I do to turn off Skype when I am not intending to use it? | 17:12 |
| psycho_oreos | skype makes at least 20+ connections when its running | 17:12 |
| k273 | wow | 17:12 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, disable the account | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | killall skyhost ;-P | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | uninstall skype XP | 17:13 |
| k273 | speaking of soc. networks, there's no way to fix twitter account integration with conversations? | 17:13 |
| k273 | lol DocScrutinizer | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really LOL I meant | 17:13 |
| psycho_oreos | iptables -A OUTPUT -j DENY | 17:13 |
| jonwil | so deselecting the "enable" check-box will disable the account and stop it using battery? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's probably the best, and maybe the only way, to make skype not hog battery | 17:14 |
| k273 | well if you want a curative treatment, yeah, jonwil | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | killall skyhost won't probably pan out | 17:14 |
| k273 | (uninstalling it) | 17:14 |
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| jonwil | ok, well I only need it on at specific times when the person I want to talk to over Skype is likely to be available | 17:14 |
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| k273 | I meant definitive treatment | 17:15 |
| jonwil | so it sounds like I can disable it at all other times and not drain the battery as much | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: check skyhost stuff | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | find a way to kick it | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | "stop skype" ? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC | 17:15 |
| k273 | kickall? XD | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: netstat and ps are your friends | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | buzzword skyhost | 17:16 |
| psycho_oreos | there's a nice TCP terminator tool, its called `cutter' run that on a while loop for a few seconds and you might shave off some excess battery usage ;) | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | cutter? should've been named mower | 17:18 |
| k273 | seems battery life is the main problem with n900 everywhere... | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 17:18 |
| k273 | and I don't see the rumored 3000mAh one coming anytime soon | 17:19 |
| psycho_oreos | with the right setup you could make N900 last around a day of minimal-average use | 17:19 |
| Hurrian | it'll easily last around a day. | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's just the devels' unawareness about embedded and what you'd better NOT do on such a platform | 17:19 |
| k273 | first time I have it yah, it could last 1 and a half day | 17:19 |
| psycho_oreos | hardware hack for 2000+mAH is available however | 17:19 |
| Hurrian | heavy use can drop the battery in ~1 hour, though | 17:19 |
| k273 | yep, that's what I'm talkin about | 17:20 |
| Hurrian | (100% CPU at 600MHz with WiFi on, 2G) | 17:20 |
| k273 | I never even used wifi | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: just like on any other mobile phone | 17:20 |
| jonwil | in terms of network use, the answer seem to be to make sure I am not logged into Skype when I go out and leave WiFi | 17:20 |
| psycho_oreos | 3/3.5G would also drain the battery heavily too | 17:20 |
| k273 | yeah | 17:20 |
| jonwil | on my wifi its fine because I have nice fast pipe and nice fat quota | 17:20 |
| jonwil | but on GSM I have limited quota and slow speeds | 17:21 |
| k273 | my main thing is reading from internet, so 3G plus screen on all time | 17:22 |
| k273 | could get 3 hrs tops | 17:22 |
| psycho_oreos | that's pretty much somewhat expected :) | 17:22 |
| k273 | yep | 17:22 |
| k273 | first time I have it it could last 5 hrs | 17:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer moans at missing concept of several virtual NIC devices in /dev which all link to whatever the connectivity might be right ATM, but offer different priorities and autoconnect settings and allowed real networks | 17:23 | |
| k273 | and those trackerd and hildon-input-desktop don't help lol | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | like e.g. a NIC 'passive' wich never will autoconnect and only offer network when another virtual NIC opened connection for it | 17:24 |
| psycho_oreos | trackerd usually runs at startup and occasionally when you've disconnected from a PC and that the device was in mass storage mode | 17:24 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, that's because we're not using NetworkManager | 17:24 |
| k273 | I don't autoconnect. that's unwise (batterylife wise and security wise) | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | or "free-as-beer" which will only connect to known free WLANs and USB and BT-PAN | 17:25 |
| Hurrian | also, trackerd usually runs away and ramps CPU and IO to 100% | 17:25 |
| k273 | yes | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | then make each app use whatever user decides, as NIC | 17:25 |
| k273 | psycho_oreos and Hurrian : yes, and DocScrutinizer and chem|st had taught me a lot | 17:25 |
| psycho_oreos | autodisconnect program concept isn't bad but its flawed otherwise :/ | 17:26 |
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| psycho_oreos | at least it gives one some sense of control in extending the battery life (if tweaked right) | 17:27 |
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| k273 | mhmm... | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | autodisconnect is nonsense | 17:31 |
| k273 | http://www.antimoon.com/blog/2012/05/ldoce-viewer/?ml | 17:32 |
| k273 | I found that dictionaries in linux are still limited functionally, and/or too clunky... | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 17:37 |
| k273 | yes, DocScrutinizer? | 17:38 |
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| javispedro | moo | 17:41 |
| k273 | arf! | 17:41 |
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| javispedro | hm, do not leave n810 under weight, speakers are plugged in via spring contacts and wear out | 18:07 |
| javispedro | (fortunately easy repaired) | 18:08 |
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| k273 | gottago, DocScrutinizer , psycho_oreos, Hurrian . thanks for the chat. have a good day/night! | 18:14 |
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| Darkchaos | Do some of you experience problems with the usb port of your mobile as well? | 18:36 |
| Hurrian | it's a common problem on the N900 | 18:40 |
| Hurrian | fix: resolder USB port | 18:40 |
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| Darkchaos | can it be done by a simple electrician? | 19:05 |
| Darkchaos | but as it looks atm i cannot open it simply, right? | 19:06 |
| Darkchaos | Is it just unsoldering and soldering again? | 19:06 |
| Darkchaos | Hurrian | 19:11 |
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| jonwil | Seems like setting Skype availability to "offline" causes skyhost to terminate | 19:18 |
| jonwil | so it looks like I can save battery doing that | 19:18 |
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| chem|st | jonwil: skype is known to cause alot of wakeups | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | In addition, monster battery use due to data transfer | 20:23 |
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| jonwil | is it normal for multiple copies of skyhost to be running when I am connected to skype? | 20:32 |
| jonwil | I am assuming it is | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | ya | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | some 10 threads or so | 20:32 |
| jonwil | ok | 20:33 |
| jonwil | ok, lets find out where telepathy-spirit is registered/set up/etc | 20:35 |
| jonwil | i.e. what causes it to start | 20:35 |
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| jonwil | ok, I cant see anything in there that would allow Skype to wake up from whatever state its in when I set it to "offline", there is no Skype daemon or anything else running and nothing talking to any Skype servers so it should only start up when I actually set availability and make it come online again | 20:45 |
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| jonwil | all the information I have seen though indicates that the Skype protocol is a piece of junk (worse still, proprietary junk) | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Darkchaos: | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 21:46 |
| infobot | from memory, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 21:46 |
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| cehteh | hey .. i want to seal my device for underwater: P | 22:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | Me too | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Wanna split http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-encapsulant-solar-cells-1-1-kg-QSIL-216-/270717796704?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item3f0809c160 ? | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: SpeedEvil simple enough - place a scotch patch on USB and AV plug appertures, fill the whole kbd half with 2k-epoxy | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the screen it's a tiny bit less simple but basicaly same procedure | 22:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | Epoxy is generally a bad idea | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | shrinkage makes electronics unhappy | 22:40 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i had a simpler solution: ziplock bag | 22:45 |
| cehteh | doesnt look pretty but works | 22:46 |
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| Sicelo | hmm, bq27200 shows max 150mA charging from wall charger | 23:39 |
| Sicelo | :\ | 23:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | with the device idle? | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - what's the charge state? | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | With device non-idle - that's not ridiculous. | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | or battery near full | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | As with battery ... | 23:47 |
| Sicelo | idle | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | battery voltage ? | 23:48 |
| Sicelo | when i disconnect charger, i get a nice 4mA standby current .. so i know i don't have bad stuff running | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | the nokia charger? | 23:48 |
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| Sicelo | well, now it's full.. but voltage was about 80% when i first noticed | 23:49 |
| ShadowJK | so if it was almost full the chargerate is explained | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | 80% charge may be where it's starting to taper off | 23:50 |
| Sicelo | yeah, nokia charger.. original.. same one that came with the N900 a year ago | 23:50 |
| Sicelo | hmm, ok :/ | 23:50 |
| ShadowJK | my old battery started tapering at 50 :) | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Old cells are bad that way | 23:51 |
| Sicelo | ow.. i have not treated my N900 battery too well :P | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: see CC/CV chaging, wikipedia | 23:53 |
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| Sicelo | thanks. i'm there now | 23:55 |
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| ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/N900-BL5J-bq24150-std-4200-950-100.png red is voltage, green is current, seconds on x axis | 23:56 |
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