IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-05-12

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MrPinguHi00:12
MrPinguHas anybody here experience with opensuse?00:14
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peterbjornxa bit00:26
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MrPinguWell how much crap has in it?00:26
peterbjornx?00:27
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MrPingu_I mean how much application has it in it I probably won't use and other settings/features?00:31
MrPingu_Ubuntu had too much crap to my likings ;)00:32
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DocScrutinizerMrPingu_: for openSuse that is up to your sole discretion, when selecting which packets to install00:34
MrPingu_Thank you00:36
DocScrutinizerthere's no nonsense like ubuntu vs kubuntu, with openSuse. You select your preferred desktop, your apps, ans you even got reasonable profiles to do a preselection for you, and you still can tweak them to all your liking00:36
DocScrutinizerlike "desktop", "workstation", "server" younameit00:37
MrPingu_Seems what I am after, arch is bit too much for now ;)00:37
MrPingu_Besides I like KDE :)00:38
DocScrutinizeron newest openSuse KDE3 resurrected, means it's optional again00:39
DocScrutinizer:-D00:39
DocScrutinizer(of course kde4 latest is available, if you wondered)00:39
MrPingu_I read that ;)00:39
peterbjornxis it possible to enable the av out on bootup00:40
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: ??00:40
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DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: on which platform, to do what?00:41
reiugod damn00:42
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MrPingu_whatsup reiu?00:43
MrPingu_hmm useful visit ^^00:44
peterbjornxn90000:44
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DocScrutinizerto show Video?01:08
DocScrutinizerI think that's working "automagically"01:08
DocScrutinizerI'll confirm for you in a few minutes (after newsflash)01:09
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peterbjornxfb con doesnt work on video out01:20
MrPingu_G2G, bye!01:20
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cehtehblubb01:38
ShadowJKvideo out is almost like a separate fb01:39
cehtehdockane_: NAC is the measured cell capacity?01:39
cehteherr DocScrutinizer ^^01:39
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DocScrutinizercehteh: see bq27k-detail01:40
cehtehyes i am looking at it, trying to interpret it01:40
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ShadowJKRemaining charge01:41
ShadowJK(Nominal Available Capacity)01:41
cehtehlshal tells me 1200something mah .. bq27k detail tell NAC == 1500mah01:41
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cehtehanyways for the first few cycles this Cellephone battery holds fine01:41
ShadowJKneeds about 2-3 learning cycles before it starts showing accurate numbers01:41
DocScrutinizerNAC Nominal Available Capacity01:41
DocScrutinizeremphasis on "available"01:42
cehtehmeans till cell death? :)01:42
ShadowJKLMD = Last Measured Discharge01:42
cehteh1508mAh ... not bad for this cheap standard sized cell01:43
DocScrutinizerobviously if you charge one cell, then swap for an empty one and charge again, NAC will rise above what's possible for one cell01:43
cehtehah01:43
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SpeedEvilThe charger should normally detect a missing cell, and not do that01:43
cehtehcan i reset the bq27 to start learning for a new cell?01:43
DocScrutinizerfor the battery gauge to show correct values, you need a (at least one) calibration cycle aka learning cycle01:44
cehtehi am not swapping cells often so learning for one cell would be fine for me01:44
cehtehi did that yesterday01:44
DocScrutinizerit restes automatically on each complete discharge01:44
ShadowJKNAC never rises above LMD01:44
cehtehok01:44
SpeedEvilcomplete discharge - or cell absent IIRC01:44
SpeedEvilIt's been a while though01:44
DocScrutinizercell absent only if it gets detected01:44
cehtehwell complete discharge .. is that the phone (bmq induced) shutdown?01:44
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SpeedEvilindeed01:44
DocScrutinizerbq27x00 is bad at detecting cell absence, as that's not what it's designed for01:45
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ShadowJKBesides, then it'd reset to the eeprom values, which default to 2000-ish mAh :P01:45
DocScrutinizercehteh: usually yes, if you don't discharge too rapidly01:45
cehtehi'd like to reset the bq27x01:45
ShadowJKI have about 40% success rate with discharging to bme shutdown threshold01:46
SpeedEvilIndeed01:46
cehtehbur well i think over time it will adapt to the new cell01:46
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SpeedEvilThe BME shutdown, and the bq learn threshold on many devices are the same01:46
SpeedEvilSo it will randomly either learn, not learn, or learn sometimes.01:47
cehtehborked :P01:47
SpeedEvilThe device needs to remain on for 10(?) seconds after the low voltage threshold is hit for it to register01:47
SpeedEvilyou can of course stop bme to make it learn01:47
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cehtehi was hearing webradio until it suddenly shut down01:48
ShadowJK(./bq27200 5)01:48
DocScrutinizersure thing is to stop bme until EDVF=101:48
cehtehfrom first battery warning to shutdown in a instant01:48
cehtehok trying that01:48
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cehtehso now someone has only to fix the mce bug disabling the led when there is to much light on the als01:51
cehtehi really wonder how this got broken01:51
cehtehan attempt to dim the notification led with ambient light? .. never completed?01:51
cehtehwould be nice if it worked :P01:52
DocScrutinizerstop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme01:52
cehtehi have just ./bq27200 5 running01:53
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DocScrutinizerhah, I even got an icon for that01:53
DocScrutinizer:-)01:54
cehtehTTE=244 ..01:55
DocScrutinizerjust in case some lurker wonders: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail201:55
ShadowJKis VDQ 1?01:55
cehtehwith wlan and webradio the phone sucks amazingly much power unfortunally01:55
cehtehyes, what is VDQ?01:55
ShadowJKvalid discharge01:56
ShadowJKif it's 1, it will learn. If it's 0, it will ignore01:56
cehtehok01:56
ShadowJKGets set to 1 on full charge. Gets set to 0 when you start charging.01:56
DocScrutinizerit goes to 0 when some unusual conditions make it think the learning cycle won't result in a good calibration01:56
cehtehok .. let it drain and dont connect :)01:57
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DocScrutinizerVDQ   Valid Discharge flag. Learning cycle in progress."01:57
cehtehdoes it multiple learning cycles and integrate them or only one? .. or constantly, tries to learn with each cycle?01:58
SpeedEviljust one01:59
SpeedEvilTries to learn with every qualified learning cycle01:59
cehtehok02:00
cehtehso other work now .. :) bbl02:00
SpeedEvilAnd changes the NAC by at most 1/8th each time02:00
Sc0rpiushttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57432462-37/siri-says-nokia-lumia-900-the-best-smartphone-ever/02:00
Sc0rpiusthat's so funny :)02:00
ShadowJKMaximum change of battery capacity is 1/6th though, and original eeprom programmed capacity is 2000-ish, so to get to real battery capacity, the first learning cycles goes 2000-2000/6 = 1666, then 1388..02:01
ShadowJK(rounded)02:01
ShadowJKoh I thought it was 1/6th02:01
ShadowJKcould be 1/8th though I guess :P02:01
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SpeedEvilI'm 93.4% certain it's 1/8th02:04
DocScrutinizerit's 1/8 and afaik not NAC, as NAC is the currently available netto mAh in battery02:05
DocScrutinizerI'd think it's LMD02:05
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DocScrutinizervs "ILMD Initial Last Measured Discharge"02:06
SpeedEvilyeah02:06
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SpeedEvilLMD sets NAC02:06
cehtehbtw, does tizen allow nativ applications and had a reasonable standard userland?02:06
SpeedEvil(at 100%)02:06
DocScrutinizerwhich is  *0x100 * 3.57 / 20 =  2062 mAh fabcoded cell capacity02:06
* cehteh not looked it it yet02:06
* SpeedEvil points to #tizen02:06
* SpeedEvil has no idea02:06
cehtehjust in case someone here knows, i dont want to know details02:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep, LMD sets NAC when charge end detected02:07
DocScrutinizercehteh: watch your ./bq27200 5 and you'll learn to interprete the values02:09
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DocScrutinizerbasically it's simple: NAC gets set to LMD when cell gets charged to 100%. Then it counts down based on actual current drawn from battery02:10
DocScrutinizerit might even get negative02:10
DocScrutinizerwhen battery voltage reaches EDVF, NAC gets set to 0, and LMD gets adjusted to new measured discharge capacity (by max 1/8 off from last value)02:12
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DocScrutinizernow you charge battery, and when it's full again, NAC gets set to new LMD value02:13
DocScrutinizerI.E. to the total delta value of NAC from last discharge02:13
DocScrutinizerso in theory NAC now should reach 0 exactly when EDVF kicks in02:14
cehtehyes, i known that, i was just confused by some unplausible values and the way it does things in detail02:14
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DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: AV out works from first progress indicator dot jumping02:48
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: it doesn't work for NOLO (NOKIA screen)02:48
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cehtehdamn new battery ...03:22
cehtehit doesnt want to drain :/ .. seems this becoming a long night :P03:23
ShadowJKlol03:23
ShadowJKWhat's the voltage and current drain (mA)?03:23
cehtehi should keep display on :P03:23
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cehtehi push it to -390 mA :)03:24
cehteh-510 :)03:24
cehtehrunning an update03:24
ShadowJKvoltage?03:24
cehteh3743 .. still 947mah left03:25
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cehteh(well thats inprecise)03:25
cehtehwhats the end voltage for bq27x?03:25
ShadowJKstart gpsjinni or somethning, adds 80mA03:25
ShadowJK324803:25
cehtehoutch .. long way to go :)03:26
ShadowJKwell it's not entirely predictable, voltage will vary between batteries03:26
cehtehdisplay on is the best sucker03:26
ShadowJKthe japod battery I'm using maintains 3600-3700 or more for amazingly long, but then it collapses pretty fast when approaching empty03:27
cehtehi am happy that this is a standard sized battery03:27
ShadowJKAlso streaming netradio on 3g is biggest drain I've found :)03:27
cehteh(otterbox ..)03:27
cehtehi am streaming netradio on wlan03:28
cehteh-647 mA ... record :)03:29
DocScrutinizer   0x77:       119 SEDVF Scaled EDVF Threshold                                       R/W03:29
DocScrutinizer                    +0x100)*8 =  3000 mV (@ 0%)03:29
DocScrutinizer   0x78:       150 SEDV1 Scaled EDV1 Threshold                                       R/W03:29
DocScrutinizer                    +0x100)*8 =  3248 mV (@ 6.25%)03:29
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SpeedEvilI think I got over an amp once03:34
DocScrutinizerwell, it's like 2+A possible, but not continuously03:34
SpeedEvilFlashlight + camera + 3g + wifi + .md5sum03:34
SpeedEvilOver an amp isn't hard03:35
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cehtehi dont want to fry my device :)03:35
DocScrutinizeralso makes for a poor learning cycle03:36
SpeedEvilIndeed03:36
SpeedEvilMuch more than you will normally use understates the capacity03:36
DocScrutinizer500mA +/- are just fine03:36
cehtehwhat disables the geotagging in the CSSU camera app? i always have to reenable it03:37
DocScrutinizerumm03:37
cehtehexactly03:39
GeneralAntillesMAGIC!03:40
GeneralAntillesIt's a privacy feature—it detects when the NSA is sniffing your GPS connection. Duh.03:40
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* ShadowJK managed 1.2-1.3A continously04:01
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DocScrutinizercehteh: anyway, your battery should reach end of discharge meanwhile, even at 500mA avrg ?04:05
DocScrutinizercehteh: what'S the voltage now?04:06
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cehtehhaha :) not yet 3697mV04:11
cehtehi was in the kitchen and it switched to 3G04:11
SpeedEvilShadowJK: video over 3g04:12
SpeedEvilargh - silly scroll04:12
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cehtehTTE 100 ...04:12
DocScrutinizerdoesn't mean a thing, since it's not calibrated04:12
cehteh(turned display off, just normal discharge, no extra sucking)04:12
cehtehyeah but 3650 mV is still plenty left04:13
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DocScrutinizeractually not04:13
SpeedEvil~30%ish?04:13
DocScrutinizerit's dropping rapidly once it reaches 360004:13
cehtehthats plenty when you wait for it draining :)04:14
ShadowJKdepends on battery, my original bl-5)s spend majority of discharge around 36xx04:14
cehtehi know lipo discharge curves04:14
ShadowJKthis is lipo04:14
cehtehyes04:15
ShadowJKBut optimized for max energy density, not optimized for power like the RC lipos are :P04:15
cehtehanyways discharge curves are similar in some ways .. there is some quite long linearity in the middle04:16
DocScrutinizer:nod:04:16
DocScrutinizerwatch voltage delta04:16
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cehtehsome people consider RC batteries empty at 3800mV04:16
cehteh(without load)04:16
DocScrutinizersounds reasonable04:17
cehtehyep, while i think 3600 should be ok still, but the big packs are still expensive04:18
cehtehfor my heli, a battery costs 2.80 Eur, i dont overly care04:18
DocScrutinizerooh, I just see you got 3697, not 365004:18
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cehtehbut when you have 12S batteries with 4000mAh then its really expensive04:19
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cehtehwell differing load it varies quite much04:19
DocScrutinizeryep04:19
ShadowJKI just stop flying when loaded voltage dips below 3.7, because some other cell might be lower04:20
cehtehone reads 3633 another 366004:20
DocScrutinizerthat's root cause why calibration is so unreliably happening04:20
ShadowJKif it was single-cell pack I'd fly to 3.2 :)04:20
cehtehthere are voltage watchdogs which watch each single cell ..04:20
cehtehbut they warn at 3.3V (with load then) .. if you then start looking for a landing place, thats quite late04:21
ShadowJKyes04:22
cehtehmy ESC shuts down around 3.4V .. so ok for me (and i still dont fly until that happens)04:22
ShadowJKI also don't land first attempt usually ;)04:22
* DocScrutinizer wonders how much cehteh 's battery voltage dropped since last reading04:22
cehtehShadowJK: airplane?04:22
ShadowJKheli04:22
cehteh3644 last reading04:22
cehtehShadowJK: which one?04:23
cehtehtiny V120D02S here :)04:23
ShadowJKa lame fixed pitch. Esky honeybee 204:23
cehtehah ok ... then mine is even biggier :)04:23
ShadowJKit's about 300grams04:23
cehteh\o/ .. that happens rarely04:24
cehtehoh.. mine is 100gramms .. but CP and torque driven04:24
DocScrutinizerI'd like 300kg04:24
DocScrutinizer;-D04:24
DocScrutinizerprolly not powered by LiPo04:24
cehtehhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RKLggne0E << dont try that at home04:25
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer; actually there's on youtube a LiPo driven multirotor contraption with a passenger04:26
DocScrutinizero.O04:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil will listen up on that04:26
ShadowJKI think I want something hevier than 300grams for outdoor. My current heli isn't that good when there's wind, and too big for indoors04:26
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cehtehShadowJK: go CP .. my 100gram heli holds even well in strong wind04:27
cehtehits FP sux in wind04:28
SpeedEvilI have a hoverboard sketch.04:28
SpeedEvil~60kg, capable of free flight, ~1m*1m04:28
ShadowJKAlso, geared etrm sucks04:28
SpeedEvil2G accelleration.04:28
SpeedEvilClose-packed array of small ducted fans, and a lot of fast LiPo04:29
SpeedEvil:)04:29
cehteh3615mv ...04:29
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DocScrutinizercehteh: watch it drop now04:30
cehtehhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgECnfhJlTI  2G? .. pah :), i dont even want to know how much G a goblin has04:30
cehtehDocScrutinizer: 3625 :P04:30
SpeedEvilOh yeah - that nutter04:31
ShadowJKhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw04:32
SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU - even more G04:32
DocScrutinizerhttp://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf04:32
DocScrutinizersee table204:32
ShadowJKtareq's style is just sick04:32
SpeedEvilI think I worked out those slope soarers were pulling in excess of 40G04:33
ShadowJKhttp://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png04:33
cehtehhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaOCIqJWLc  that takeoff is awesome04:34
cehtehDocScrutinizer: 3591 ...04:35
cehtehok now it goes down04:35
DocScrutinizertoldya, when reaching 3600 it goes down rapidly04:36
HurrianDocScrutinizer, mV?04:36
DocScrutinizeryup04:36
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cehtehlowbat blinking04:41
Hurrianrunning it down to zero?04:42
cehteh3313 mV ... and device died04:42
cehtehthats not going to work with learning :P04:42
ShadowJKyou didn't stop bme?04:43
cehteh./bq27200 disables bme?04:43
cehtehohno04:44
cehtehdamn04:44
ShadowJKit doesn't04:44
ShadowJKtry switch it on anyways ;-)04:44
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cehtehi do04:45
cehteherr .. shuts down, needs a little charge04:45
DocScrutinizerplug to charger, boot, start >>stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme<<, unplug04:46
DocScrutinizeror rather, first unplug, immediately after unplugging, stop bme04:47
cehtehfirst i need it to boot up, well i can do another learning cycle04:47
cehtehhow well does ./bq27200 handle charging?04:47
DocScrutinizererr, not at all04:47
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cehtehwasnt there some other script which programs the charging?04:48
DocScrutinizerit's largely unrelated to charge handling04:48
DocScrutinizeryou don't need any of that04:48
cehtehthere was something to poke the charge current04:49
DocScrutinizerboot it up with charger plugged in, start bq27200.sh, stop bme, unplug04:49
cehtehyep04:49
cehtehwell i need to wait a bit to boot, else i dont get to the point to stop bme04:50
cehtehor i do the whole thing tomorrow with a new cycle04:50
DocScrutinizersee, you discharged too quick (or too slow?), it had no chance to reach 3248 mV04:50
DocScrutinizerfor a sufficiently long period04:51
cehtehthats not about chance .. thats bme's fault04:51
cehtehi forgot to kick it04:51
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DocScrutinizerwell, I have several bq27200.sh 5 logs where calibration aka learning cycle succeeded with bme running04:56
SpeedEvilSame here04:57
SpeedEvil95% of the time - not04:57
DocScrutinizerdepends on battery, and on load characteristics04:57
SpeedEvilCycle Count since Learning: 2404:58
SpeedEvilTotal Cycle Count since last full reset: 9304:58
DocScrutinizereither bme cuts out immediately when voltage drops under 3200mV, while bq27200 needs 5s @ <324804:58
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DocScrutinizeror bme cuts out on >60s at <3300mV, while bq....04:59
DocScrutinizerI guess it's like the first one05:00
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SpeedEvilThe logs I have say BME triggers exactly on the point of the low voltage flag going on05:01
DocScrutinizerso too much ripple in load current will cause bme kick in before bq can detect laerning cycle finished at EDV105:02
SpeedEvilIf it's reading it is an interesting question05:02
DocScrutinizeryes, my logs of successful learning cycles with bme are like shutdown by bme max 120s after CI->005:03
DocScrutinizerand they all are @ <300mA05:04
DocScrutinizercehteh: you managed to restart discharging?05:05
DocScrutinizer(and I honestly hope for you it won't go VDQ->0)05:06
DocScrutinizer(but probably it will, as you will charge it anyway, to get it booting)05:07
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DocScrutinizerso: >>  while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme05:10
DocScrutinizereven05:10
DocScrutinizerso: >>  while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme05:11
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: i just charge it full and make another cycle05:14
DocScrutinizercehteh: that'S exactly what this oneliner 'script' does, automagically05:14
cehtehto lazy to type it in on the n900 keyboard :P05:15
DocScrutinizerstop bme causes charging to stop, discharging to start05:15
cehtehn900 is connected to my wlan which is outside of my office network05:15
DocScrutinizerit's charging until battery full, then stops bme, discharging takes place, until bq27200 completes learning cycle, where bme gets started so it doesn't even shut down (hopefully) but rather charges battery again05:16
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cehtehwell i need a full battery tomorrow and no experiments05:16
cehtehcan do that next night or another day05:17
* DocScrutinizer just starts exactly that line now, via WLAN ssh05:17
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cehtehi have a little strange network setup, the n900 is not reachable :P ..05:17
DocScrutinizermeh, some syntax error05:17
cehtehshall make openvpn work again :)05:18
DocScrutinizerok, it works as expected, seems it runs straight to the end since my CI=0 and my battery is already completely charged05:20
DocScrutinizeron second test it's waiting for bme / bq24150 stopping the charging that kicked in on >> start bme << of last run05:20
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: stop, do something else :P .. i know how to shellscript too :P05:21
cehtehbut i am just now not after it05:21
DocScrutinizerhttp://paste.debian.net/168417/05:21
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DocScrutinizermeh, you don't think I'm doing that just for you, do you? ;-P05:22
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DocScrutinizeranyway, for those interested in it and not looking at the pastie above:05:26
DocScrutinizerwhile bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme05:26
cehtehnope .. make a git init .. commit it and then lets make some useable scripts from it :)05:26
cehtehyou have some place to host git? otherwise you can get an account on my server05:27
DocScrutinizerHAH, not going to pkg that05:27
DocScrutinizerand for sure no git05:27
cehtehnope not package, just some place where we can volunatry improve these scripts05:27
DocScrutinizerfor sth that'05:27
cehtehduh :P05:28
DocScrutinizerS basically a shellscript 4 liner05:28
cehtehyes still .. things improve over time and you could add the other bq* scripts as well05:28
DocScrutinizermight end in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/05:28
cehtehif you want so05:28
DocScrutinizeror even http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/05:29
cehtehi just always use git :)05:29
DocScrutinizerI'd for sure do that as well, if I was used to use git05:29
DocScrutinizersince I'm not...05:29
cehtehcould be a start :)05:29
DocScrutinizerway too much overhead05:30
cehtehnot really05:30
cehtehgit scales with how you use it . and that also into the small project direction05:30
DocScrutinizerthe learning curve doesn't05:38
DocScrutinizeror at least the howtos don't05:38
cehtehyou can ask me .. and for basic git usage a handful commands and actions are enouh05:41
cehtehbasically just    add, commit and push05:41
DocScrutinizeryeah, just to pick then out of the plethora is a PITA05:41
cehtehand in few cases merge05:42
cehtehwell you decision05:42
DocScrutinizerI guess a mere >git add bq27200-calibration.sh<< won't get me anywhere but to a breathtaking manpage05:43
DocScrutinizerfor now I'm probably absolutely served by handling clearcase at work05:45
DocScrutinizerand from that and basic understanding of how a CVS works, I guess I have to create a entity prior to using simple commands like add, commit, push05:47
ShadowJKinstalling git on N900 should prove fun05:48
ShadowJK:)05:48
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DocScrutinizergit --help add; YAY /o\05:51
DocScrutinizer"add to the index" MHM05:51
DocScrutinizerfeels like even clearcase is simpler - it only needs me to create a view, then checkout files in that view if I want to edit them, add files I create in that view, and finally checkin again05:53
Sc0rpiusit's a pity there's no library to develop a new protocol for Conversations in Qt :(05:53
Sc0rpiusI think I'm starting to hate Glib05:53
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DocScrutinizermaybe git add -A is a useful cmd for simple low-profile approach05:56
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DocScrutinizernext: "commit"05:57
DocScrutinizerhaha, man git-commit  >>The content to be added can be specified in several ways:  ... 4. by using the -a switch with the commit command to automatically "add" changes from all known files<<05:59
cehtehShadowJK: i have git on the n900 ... its packaged in the devel stuff05:59
* DocScrutinizer wonders why add is needed then, at all05:59
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes, in git you prepare commits before doing them06:00
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cehtehthats quite useful because sometimes you dont want to commit ALL the changes you did06:00
cehtehand you may ignore the details because, in many cases you dont need to know06:01
DocScrutinizerexactly my concern06:01
cehtehthere is a git commit -a     for add all .. like CVS06:01
DocScrutinizerthere's no "simple usage" of git06:01
cehteh(i never use that but weell)06:01
cehtehthere is06:01
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cehtehwell i go to bed .. if you *really* want to try I would offer you my help .. but i dont want to push you and i dont want to waste time if you are not interested06:02
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DocScrutinizerI'm interested how that simple usage would look like06:03
DocScrutinizerfor now it's a06:03
DocScrutinizerexactly as I expected: look at manpage, gasp, shrug, turn away06:03
cehtehyes thats wrong :) ...06:04
cehtehthere is information overload and many many ways how to do things06:04
cehteh95% or more you dont need for simple usage06:04
DocScrutinizerand no way to spot the 5%06:04
cehtehi introduced a lot people to git, worked well06:05
cehtehbut not know .. ask me another day06:05
DocScrutinizerI'd for sure appreciate such introduction06:05
DocScrutinizer:-)06:06
cehtehbtw .. if you like to make it to FrOSCon this year, we (lumeira) team making a small/open git workshop06:06
DocScrutinizerI doubt my daywork will allow that06:06
cehtehthe conference is on weekend06:07
DocScrutinizer(messing around with ClearCase, you know)06:07
DocScrutinizerhmm, when?06:07
DocScrutinizerwhere?06:07
cehtehhttp://www.froscon.de/startseite/06:07
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cehtehSt Augustin (near Bonn)06:07
DocScrutinizermight be fun06:08
cehtehit is very much fun ..06:08
cehtehthats my favorite conference every year06:09
DocScrutinizerI may see if I can get a day off at work to travel there06:09
cehtehsmallish enough not to get lost, big enough to meet a lot opensource people06:09
DocScrutinizer:nod:06:09
DocScrutinizernot too far from my QTH06:09
cehtehyeah we arrive on friday too, usually help setup at afternoon06:09
cehtehyoo prolly have to hurry for hotel rooms :)06:10
cehteh(as every year)06:10
DocScrutinizer:nod:06:10
DocScrutinizerany recommendations?06:10
cehtehnope06:11
cehtehwell we have a extremely cheap but okish one06:11
cehtehthey stil had 2 single rooms free last time i asked06:11
cehtehwell there is the Hotel Regina close to the conference .. but its usually first booked out, more expensive, and ugly :)06:12
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teotwaki_if anyone knows the answer to this, please do reach out: Hi, I'm creating a UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, and it is correctly shown as 0.0.0.0:port or *:port in lsof/netstat, but as soon as I call connect() on it, it automatically binds to a specific interface. Here's a testcase: http://ideone.com/IKcUr08:49
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jkyroisn't that the expected behavior? Calling connect() on an UDP socket implies that you are going to send all traffic to a specific IP which cannot change08:58
teotwaki_jkyro: yes, but it doesn't say anything about the interface on which you'll listen.08:58
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jkyroyou can't both listen and connect a socket08:59
jkyroor, if you want to do that, don't call connect(), instead use sendmsg08:59
teotwaki_yes, you can listen and connect.09:00
teotwaki_Why couldn't you?09:00
jkyroconnect() effectively means that the socket will only accept data from the IP you are connecting to09:00
teotwaki_well, maybe not listen, but receive data, and discard the data that comes from another ip:port combination09:00
jkyroI'm not actually sure about that09:01
jkyromight be totally wrong about this09:01
jkyrobut that's what I'd expect09:01
jkyrobecause when you are telling the socket to connect(), you are implying that yhou want to converse with this specific IP09:01
teotwaki_that's what I said :)09:02
teotwaki_jkyro: my issue is not with the conversing to and from a specific IP09:03
teotwaki_jkyro: it's with the fact that even though I provide INADDR_ANY, the socket ends up bound on a specific interface.09:03
jkyrook, what is it then? :)09:03
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teotwaki_and I have no control over said interface09:04
teotwaki_I *think* the interface is chosen based on whether or not it can reach the ip:port combination provided during connect()09:04
teotwaki_but I have no idea.09:04
teotwaki_And I have no way of predicting which interface it'll pick.09:05
jkyrothe interface is chosen based on the usual routing rules I suppose09:05
teotwaki_except it shouldn't09:05
teotwaki_you can't go from INADDR_ANY to one single interface, just like that.09:05
jkyroof course not, it depends on the destination IP09:05
teotwaki_that completely breaks the whole behaviour of INADDR_ANY09:06
teotwaki_To give you an example, our servers have 8 IP addresses.09:06
teotwaki_One for RTP traffic, one for SIP, one for SSH, one for...09:07
jkyrohow many interfaces are there then+09:08
teotwaki_well, 909:08
teotwaki_When a call arrives on the SIP interface, we open a new UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, grab the port we received, and reply "sure, send your RTP data to <RTP_IP>:port"09:08
teotwaki_but, when we did the connect() on the UDP socket, instead of listening on all interfaces, as INADDR_ANY is supposed to09:08
teotwaki_it bound to SSH_IP.09:08
teotwaki_so we don't get any data.09:08
jkyrook, so why don't you bind it to the specific interface then?09:09
jkyro*RTP specific09:09
teotwaki_yes, that'd be the obvious workaround, and the one I'll be implementing in 30 minutes or so09:09
teotwaki_but that doesn't take away the fact that this is some serious breakage.09:09
jkyrohuh?09:10
teotwaki_I'm specifically telling the socket to not bind to a specific interface, and it does just that.09:10
jkyronot before you call connect on it09:11
teotwaki_but the man pages or POSIX standard don't say anything about changing the scope of a socket when calling connect() on it.09:11
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teotwaki_jkyro: basically, I'm suspecting either a bug in either POSIX or the UDP stack, I'm just trying to get confirmation of it. The problem I have is I can't believe I would've stumbled upon such a bug.09:13
teotwaki_anyway, enough of that. Going for a jog. Waking up at 6AM on a saturday just to write a testcase for some obscure behaviour is just sad.09:16
jkyroconnect spec says "If  the socket has not already been bound to a local address, connect() shall bind it to an address which, unless the socket's  address family is AF_UNIX, is an unused local address."09:17
teotwaki_jkyro: where did you see that?09:18
jkyrothis one http://www.unix.com/man-page/posix/3posix/connect/09:18
teotwaki_shoot09:19
teotwaki_ubuntu/mint's man pages suck then.09:19
jkyroit's a bug in the man pages then09:21
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jkyrounless the intention is only to augment the posix/whatever spec with linux-specific info09:22
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teotwaki_Asking a friend in ##linux09:22
jkyroI don't know who actually provides the man pages, libc maybe09:24
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teotwaki_Also, how do you know a specific version of Linux conforms to a specific verison of POSIX?09:26
teotwaki_I mean, that page was last updated in 2003, apparently09:26
teotwaki_so, when when did libc implement it?09:26
teotwaki_jkyro: thanks a bunch, you've been an amazing help09:28
teotwaki_here, you get to be on top of the world today09:28
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jkyronp, glad to help09:29
jkyroand thanks :)09:29
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DarkchaosHey Guys, I backed up my Phone yesterday after reflash, but now I'm missing conversation logs and phone call history10:12
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TofeHi !12:21
LaoLang_coolHi, after I changed system font to consolas, in conversation window, the text is broken into another line after the contact avaster, what's wrong?12:24
LaoLang_coolIn default font, the test is followed after the avaster12:25
LaoLang_cools/avaster/avatar/12:25
infobotLaoLang_cool meant: In default font, the test is followed after the avatar12:25
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LaoLang_coolplease recommended a font for maemo :)13:42
chem|stLaoLang_cool: $default?13:45
LaoLang_coolchem|st, I want to have a change :)13:45
chem|sti like console sans... ;)13:46
TofeI have a font named "Ubuntu", from the "Carbon Steel" theme13:51
wesk77i like DejaVu Sans13:52
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tgalalLaoLang_cool: Nokia pure http://brandbook.nokia.com/blog/view/item62250/14:14
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Macertgalal: uhm... seriously? lol14:27
Macerwtf cares about a font? :)14:27
Macerlolz! and unless you are an artist you probably wouldn't even notice the difference14:28
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tgalalMacer: it's LaoLang_cool who was asking, not me :D14:29
tgalaland I do like that Nokia pure font14:29
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Macerit just seems so cosmetic14:34
Macerour stock is in the gutter14:34
Macerbut look at this awesome new font?14:34
wesk77i had problems with special characters in my mp3s id3 tags with the stock font14:37
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DocScrutinizerohwell14:45
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OkropNickLaoLang_cool: Nokia Pure14:55
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* RST38h moos evilly, sacrifices a hampster to the Tentacled One15:05
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/15:21
* DocScrutinizer orders two glasses 100g vodka for RST38h and himself15:22
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SpeedEvil"    The Complaint alleges that Nokia, a provider of telecommunications        infrastructure hardware, software, and services, and certain of its        officers and directors violated the federal securities laws.        Specifically, it is alleged that during the Class Period, defendants        told investors that Nokia's conversion to a Windows platform would halt        its deteriorating position in the smartphone market. It did not.15:28
SpeedEvilhttp://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-shuman-law-firm-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-nokia-corporation-2012-05-1115:29
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.allboutn9.info/2012/05/nokia-management-gone-crazy-n9-banned.html?m=115:30
SpeedEvilyeah - saw that too.15:31
* SpeedEvil in principle could afford a n9 at the moment.15:31
DocScrutinizermy personal take on that is: Somebody at Nokia finally decided you can't do FOSS on embedded, as there's always some moron publishing the acme OC app, and Nokia end up servicing fried devices on warranty15:31
SpeedEvilThe chances of me purchasing one are rather small.15:31
SpeedEvilI doubt OC is at all relevant.15:31
SpeedEvilUtterly, utterly so.15:32
SpeedEvilConsider the reported defect rate on the modem and USB15:32
SpeedEvilEven worst-case OC, I doubt you'd claim that 10% of devices will die from it.15:32
DocScrutinizersure15:32
DocScrutinizerbut Nokia's technically based decisions at marketing level never been so sound15:33
SpeedEvilOf course - who knows what the 'real' reasons are.15:33
SpeedEvilWe will never know them.15:33
psycho_oreosI'd laugh if both cases are related.. meego instance is selling better than lumia and nokia is trying to hide meego instance15:37
SpeedEvilNot impossible.15:37
* SpeedEvil wishes he owned a lot of nokia stock, so he had a better picture.15:38
* SpeedEvil looks at share price graph.15:38
* SpeedEvil retracts that thought.15:38
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* psycho_oreos wastes time spent on wishing a slow and painful death on Stephen FLOP along with the rest of nokia's FLOPxecutives like the 15% or so web developers spending time on wishing a slow and painful death on bill gates. He isn't going to retract that thought either...15:52
k273what away to spend your time, psycho_oreos15:53
psycho_oreosk273, at least its not time wasted on not doing anything ;)15:54
k273ha15:55
k273my time is wasted waiting for the /usr/bin/hildon-input-desktop to stop eating my resource15:56
k273=(15:56
k273I still can't do nothing about it15:56
psycho_oreosyou can probably renice it, though it won't stop hildon-input-desktop from eating away resources15:57
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psycho_oreosrenicing it to something like 40 or something lol15:58
k273how, psycho_oreos ?15:59
k273any help is appreciated15:59
* psycho_oreos needs to dig out his N90016:00
k273thanks, if not bothering you, psycho_oreos16:00
psycho_oreosnot that it bothers me, moreso is that it reminds me of many things16:01
k273I hope good ones =)16:02
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psycho_oreosyeah if I smoke weed it'll be good ones :D16:03
k273lol16:03
k273(wanna share?)16:03
k273XD16:03
psycho_oreosI don't smoke weed unfortunately :) but just the thought of it is nice16:03
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psycho_oreosseems like renice is included in maemo as standard16:05
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psycho_oreosrenice -n 20 `pgrep hildon-input-desktop`16:06
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k273ah then?16:09
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psycho_oreoscheck the process, it should have 20 under nice field.. and your device shouldn't be bogged down. Though like I said, it'll only re-prioritise th{at,ose} thread(s), the thread(s) will still be running away churning resources but it won't heavily affect the overall performance of the device16:11
DocScrutinizerk273: that's a terrible defect in either sw or hw. You dhould try to find out what's causing this problem, and fix it for good. renicing doesn't help anything basically16:11
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psycho_oreosstill renicing may help in one able to pull up debuggers I suppose if its not hw issue16:11
k273DocScrutinizer: yeah, thanks, DocScrutinizer, but it's getting annoying and while waiting to buy another n900 any tweak is wanted =)16:12
k273possibly the HW16:13
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DocScrutinizercheck your interrupts16:13
k273Shift + Ctrl won't open character map16:13
DocScrutinizerstrace!16:13
k273strace?16:13
psycho_oreosdebugger tool16:14
DocScrutinizerhmm, so this might be a stuck key on kbd16:14
psycho_oreoswell one of the many debugging tools16:14
DocScrutinizerwaaaaaiiiit! SHIFT+ctrl?16:14
trxisn't it alt+ctrl?16:14
DocScrutinizernever did anything16:14
k273eh16:15
k273blue+ctrl16:15
k273sorry my bad16:15
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DocScrutinizerso is blue+<number> working? is ctrl+C working in xterm?16:15
k273working16:15
k273working16:15
DocScrutinizerODD!16:15
DocScrutinizersth fsckd up with your vkbd I guess16:16
DocScrutinizeryou should reflash16:16
k273=(16:16
k273okay16:16
psycho_oreosprobably because its hildon-input-desktop hogging the CPU and is not responding16:16
k273I thought that way too16:16
psycho_oreosI'd ssh in and try to fix it from there, at least you can get a proper keyboard for starters16:17
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k273wait wait slow down, noob here. ssh in?16:18
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DocScrutinizerdo a double full backup (backupmenu, cp all from MyDocs and ~user, do a 'normal' backup as well), then reflash to recent 1.3 and test without restoring *anything*16:18
k273last resort is reflashing16:18
k273okay16:18
psycho_oreosSSH = remote console (well in unix/unix-like terms :))16:19
k273oh16:19
DocScrutinizerbest practice: store all backups to uSD16:19
DocScrutinizerssh secure shell16:19
DocScrutinizeraka 'puTTY'16:19
DocScrutinizer;-)16:20
psycho_oreosif you didn't know what that meant, you're kinda a little late for all that necessary debugging knowledge and know how. Though I'd try and trace back to what you did last that screwed up your vkbd and see if you can `undo' it16:20
psycho_oreosreal geeks have linux boxens not puTTY ;)16:20
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I recall k273 complaining about that problem like months ago16:21
DocScrutinizerso odds are it's hard to recall what's been last suspicious action done16:21
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, and he hasn't fixed it since then? lol ouch16:21
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DocScrutinizerk273: if I mixed up your case with a similar one, sorry16:22
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k273yes I think you mixed it up alright DocScrutinizer, but no need to sorry =)16:23
psycho_oreosone of my outstanding issues is similar to that (in terms of procrastinating...)16:23
DocScrutinizerwell, so your case isn't unique at least :-D16:23
k273yeah16:23
psycho_oreosand at least you have N900, with n9 you're already fscked :)16:24
DocScrutinizeryep :-D16:24
k273why, psycho_oreos ?16:24
DocScrutinizern9/HARM not really "open"16:24
psycho_oreos<< fscked his vkbd on his n9 awhile back.. and because he has a lock code to be asked at boot, he cannot get into the device without a keyboard :)16:25
psycho_oreosits what you get with a device like IPHONE WANNABE and you try to tinker with it...16:25
DocScrutinizerNokia invested considerable effort into a security framework aimed at keeping users away from internals like that16:25
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: couldn't have stated it better16:26
k273wow. thanks for the info guys. I guess I'm lucky I didn't bought it16:26
psycho_oreosthey've even went to the extent of providing N950 to developers only INSTEAD of also providing one to tinkerers16:26
k273wanna have 2 or 3 more used n90016:27
Hurriank273, they're not that hard to come by16:27
DocScrutinizerk273: reasonable idea16:27
* DocScrutinizer got 3 already16:27
psycho_oreosthough I'd be wary of the conditions of secondary/tertiary/subsequent N90016:27
k273I figure as much psycho_oreos16:27
DocScrutinizeryup16:27
* psycho_oreos has 3 (+1 broken screen..) N90016:28
DocScrutinizerthat's why I'm still very interested in stuff like that: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/16:28
k273hurrian and DocScrutinizer: yes16:28
Hurrianalso, aegis should've been removed for the final release of harmattan, knowing that there are again, a negligible amount of commercial apps and the expectations of the maemo community16:28
DocScrutinizerHurrian: that would've embarrassed the inventors of aegis crap16:29
DocScrutinizeralso whole OVI is based on that concept16:29
Hurriani mean, seriously, ONE widely-marketed MeeGo phone, and well, Nokia succesfully shot itself in the foot (again, once for every device ever)16:29
k273oh16:30
k273Hurrian: yeah, Nokia messed himself up these years16:30
k273*itself16:30
Hurrianalso, way back, there was a N950-looking device being called the N916:30
psycho_oreosHurrian, nokia shooting itself in the foot again <-- you can say that like as if its their tradition... it must be embedded in their genes or something -_-16:31
DocScrutinizermore like an E7 looking device16:31
psycho_oreosand the N950 had a kick ass advertisement16:31
DocScrutinizeror rumour thereof16:31
Hurriancould the N950 be the actual device, until people complained that the slider was wonky?16:31
k273may be16:31
DocScrutinizerquite probably, Hurrian16:32
Hurriani mean, why make an ad for a device for developers?16:32
Hurrianit was pretty abstract, but it was cool16:32
psycho_oreosit was before Flop came in16:32
Hurrianoh yeah, regarding hardware, i believe that the N9 and N950 were frozen quite some time ago, and thawed right after the Elopocalypse16:33
psycho_oreosit was definitely something that would have deemed worthy of succeeding N900 but no... they had to mangle it like as if it looked nothing like its maemo ancestry16:34
k273yea16:34
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Hurrianmeh, the Elop thing totally flushed all hopes and dreams of a Maemo/MeeGo future with Nokia.16:39
Hurrian(which, so far, has been the only company to produce a significant amount of said devices)16:39
k273yeah16:43
k273can't see the same coming out from Samsung or HTC16:44
psycho_oreosconversely speaking, its a little refreshing to see people don't have windows everywhere either.. my brother for instance uses windows day in, day out but his phone doesn't even run windows. It goes to show that soon nokia will probably be eating its balls out16:44
Hurrianpsycho_oreos, i've seen way less high end Nokias (almost none, in fact) and more samsung Androids16:46
Hurrianthe iPhones and Blackberries are also declining16:46
HurrianWindows Mobile (6.5 and below)? dying.16:46
HurrianWindows Phone (7.x)? None at all.16:46
psycho_oreostop two handheld platforms that are supposedly selling like hot cakes aren't running windows16:46
Hurrianthe WP7 fans are really quite vocal though16:47
k273Hurrian: yes, everything's declining save for Androids16:47
psycho_oreosreligious > vocal (LOL) iOS and android I'm sure would have bigger wars than any either of those two versus wp16:48
k273vocal how Hurrian ? don't see them getting vocal here16:50
psycho_oreosthey're somewhat more vocal on other tech related channels *points to channels like ##hardware for instance*16:50
Hurrianhave a friend on IRC that takes every opportunity to soapbox about how WP7 is so perfect, so smooth and integrated, while badmouthing everything else for "lag, insecurity, it doesn't run .net, it uses a retarded language like {java,obj-c), etc etc."16:51
Hurrianyou also see them doing the rounds on multiple websites16:52
psycho_oreosI've got one word for him `fanboy'16:52
Hurrianit's worse than iTrolls spamming "lag" and "fragmentation" about Android, really16:52
k273ih16:53
k273oh16:53
psycho_oreosHurrian, you know, you can point him out some statistics.. at least statistics don't lie that wp sucks16:54
k273iPhone doesn't lag, lol, but simply because it doesn't multitask16:54
psycho_oreosand then there was that link on one of the tmo user16:54
psycho_oreosuser's signature linking to a list of wp woes16:54
k273I always have to emphasize that to an iphone user16:54
Hurrian"it's (WP7) just not popular enough, so we must push hard to enlighten the unwashed masses" is the motto for them16:55
psycho_oreosLOL16:55
k273lolwut? XD16:55
psycho_oreosBallmer would SO want a person like him :)16:56
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k273I played with Lumia 800 several days ago16:56
k273really nice screen16:56
psycho_oreosyeah its similar to n916:56
k273but the 'tiles' in wp7 wasn't what I thought I'd feel16:56
k273too clunky to be honest16:57
k273I thought it'd be smooth16:57
psycho_oreosits windows.. what do you expect?16:57
k273lol how tru16:57
DocScrutinizerwait til tiles come to your desktop wincrap16:58
DocScrutinizer;-P16:58
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k273oh I saw that too16:58
k273it's a no16:58
psycho_oreosoh yeah that will happen too.. apparently its on win8 preview16:58
DocScrutinizeryep16:58
k273yep16:58
psycho_oreos`no more "start" menu'16:58
DocScrutinizerultimately braindamaged16:58
k273windows (and linux too, to be honest) are pushing everything to suit touch devices16:58
Hurriansomething happened at MS, and it wasn't pretty.16:59
k273we still have terminal =)16:59
DocScrutinizerM$ killing their major clientel market: office/insdustry16:59
k273but not winfanbois16:59
psycho_oreosballmer has gone retro like as if disco balls should be squared16:59
Hurrianwin7 is currently serving me well, the new stuff in win8 is worth renewing my technet for, but i do have a big gripe with the start screen16:59
HurrianWindows XP had a separate SKU for tablet features, why not part it out in Windows 8?17:00
k273and the always increasing demand of hardware for win, I don't like it since the first time I know PCs17:00
Hurrianwith dism in windows vista and up, it's easy as balls to do17:00
psycho_oreosk273, that's how they would say to keep the hardware manufacturers afloat ;)17:01
k273yep17:01
Hurriank273, thankfully, we've reached the point where most hardware is "good enough", and system requirement pretty much stagnated since Vista17:01
DocScrutinizerHurrian: W8 is meant to be _one_ OS for _all_17:01
k273yay17:01
psycho_oreostoo slow? time to upgrade! here, pay $$$$$ and you can enjoy it all17:01
DocScrutinizerwon't fly17:01
k273psycho_oreos: that sucks, really, to the bones17:02
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, you'll be assimilated.. not fly ;)17:02
k273DocScrutinizer: and sadly that's how it goes with some linux distros too17:02
k273(Ubuntu came to mind)17:02
k273and Gnome317:02
psycho_oreosheh that's how microsoft rolls17:02
Hurriannow, micrsoft just has to fix that problem of Windows taking up 16 freaking GB of space on a fresh install17:02
Hurrian16 frakkin GB17:02
k273lol 16 fGBs?17:03
k273dayum17:03
DocScrutinizerbuntkuh always been the windows for the cheeper fanboys17:03
Hurriana fresh install of win7 sp1 occupies about that much17:03
k273lol @ DocScrutinizer , really?17:03
psycho_oreosat least that's something noteworthy to talk about when people moan how long it takes to install linux and with all this 4GB of extra stuff17:04
k273Hurrian: never installed one by myself, so I didn't know...17:04
HurrianDocScrutinizer, I blame the Compiz jelly window rice rice rice rice video for the massive boost in popularity17:04
k273what? my Linux Mint installed in 20 minutes, and I already installed it 3 times17:04
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psycho_oreosback when xp was `the bomb' (sic), a fresh install is nowhere near 1GB usage whereas a fully optioned popular linux distro (say fc) is around 4GB or so17:06
k273ah17:06
psycho_oreostables has turned.. obviously..17:06
k273yeah17:06
Hurrianpeople still haven't learned to automate something small like Arch?17:07
k273I remember installing mandrake using 4 cds!!17:07
k273Hurrian: apparently no17:07
* psycho_oreos is using Arch17:07
psycho_oreosk273, suse linux pro 8 (8 CDS + 1 DVD).. top that!17:07
k273haha I think I can't17:08
* psycho_oreos thinks the entire debian repository is now around 3/4 DVD full?17:08
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* psycho_oreos still has that suse box :) and the fancy CD/DVD holder.. afterall he paid something like AUD$200 back then17:09
k273lol17:09
k273pretty expensive sentimental stuff17:09
k273=)17:09
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: yeah, those were the times17:09
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I fetched those boxes directly in Suse's office ;-D17:10
psycho_oreoscuriousity kills the cat obviously :) I was too eager to try linux.. and those were somewhere round my first few days/weeks of linux17:10
jonwilWill using Skype on the N900 drain the battery compared to normal use? And what about its use of network bandwidth?17:10
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, damn! well so much for living in Deutschland ^^17:10
k273=)17:11
Hurrianjonwil, yeah, it's pretty heavy17:11
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k273as for that 4cds Mandrake, I bought a book and got the cds for free17:11
DocScrutinizerjonwil: it's THE battery killer17:11
Hurriancan't speak for network use as i'm unmetered, but video quality's pretty low17:11
jonwilI am not planning to use video or voice, just IM17:12
Hurrianah17:12
DocScrutinizerdoesn't make a difference17:12
DocScrutinizerskyhost always running17:12
jonwilok, so what do I do to turn off Skype when I am not intending to use it?17:12
psycho_oreosskype makes at least 20+ connections when its running17:12
k273wow17:12
Hurrianjonwil, disable the account17:12
DocScrutinizerkillall skyhost ;-P17:12
DocScrutinizeruninstall skype XP17:13
k273speaking of soc. networks, there's no way to fix twitter account integration with conversations?17:13
k273lol DocScrutinizer17:13
DocScrutinizernot really17:13
DocScrutinizernot really LOL I meant17:13
psycho_oreosiptables -A OUTPUT -j DENY17:13
jonwilso deselecting the "enable" check-box will disable the account and stop it using battery?17:14
DocScrutinizerit's probably the best, and maybe the only way, to make skype not hog battery17:14
k273well if you want a curative treatment, yeah, jonwil17:14
DocScrutinizerkillall skyhost won't probably pan out17:14
k273(uninstalling it)17:14
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jonwilok, well I only need it on at specific times when the person I want to talk to over Skype is likely to be available17:14
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k273I meant definitive treatment17:15
jonwilso it sounds like I can disable it at all other times and not drain the battery as much17:15
DocScrutinizerjonwil: check skyhost stuff17:15
DocScrutinizerfind a way to kick it17:15
DocScrutinizer"stop skype" ?17:15
DocScrutinizerNFC17:15
k273kickall? XD17:15
DocScrutinizerjonwil: netstat and ps are your friends17:16
DocScrutinizerbuzzword skyhost17:16
psycho_oreosthere's a nice TCP terminator tool, its called `cutter' run that on a while loop for a few seconds and you might shave off some excess battery usage ;)17:17
DocScrutinizercutter? should've been named mower17:18
k273seems battery life is the main problem with n900 everywhere...17:18
DocScrutinizerno17:18
k273and I don't see the rumored 3000mAh one coming anytime soon17:19
psycho_oreoswith the right setup you could make N900 last around a day of minimal-average use17:19
Hurrianit'll easily last around a day.17:19
DocScrutinizerit's just the devels' unawareness about embedded and what you'd better NOT do on such a platform17:19
k273first time I have it yah, it could last 1 and a half day17:19
psycho_oreoshardware hack for 2000+mAH is available however17:19
Hurrianheavy use can drop the battery in ~1 hour, though17:19
k273yep, that's what I'm talkin about17:20
Hurrian(100% CPU at 600MHz with WiFi on, 2G)17:20
k273I never even used wifi17:20
DocScrutinizerHurrian: just like on any other mobile phone17:20
jonwilin terms of network use, the answer seem to be to make sure I am not logged into Skype when I go out and leave WiFi17:20
psycho_oreos3/3.5G would also drain the battery heavily too17:20
k273yeah17:20
jonwilon my wifi its fine because I have nice fast pipe and nice fat quota17:20
jonwilbut on GSM I have limited quota and slow speeds17:21
k273my main thing is reading from internet, so 3G plus screen on all time17:22
k273could get 3 hrs tops17:22
psycho_oreosthat's pretty much somewhat expected :)17:22
k273yep17:22
k273first time I have it it could last 5 hrs17:23
* DocScrutinizer moans at missing concept of several virtual NIC devices in /dev which all link to whatever the connectivity might be right ATM, but offer different priorities and autoconnect settings and allowed real networks17:23
k273and those trackerd and hildon-input-desktop don't help lol17:23
DocScrutinizerlike e.g. a NIC 'passive' wich never will autoconnect and only offer network when another virtual NIC opened connection for it17:24
psycho_oreostrackerd usually runs at startup and occasionally when you've disconnected from a PC and that the device was in mass storage mode17:24
HurrianDocScrutinizer, that's because we're not using NetworkManager17:24
k273I don't autoconnect. that's unwise (batterylife wise and security wise)17:24
DocScrutinizeror "free-as-beer" which will only connect to known free WLANs and USB and BT-PAN17:25
Hurrianalso, trackerd usually runs away and ramps CPU and IO to 100%17:25
k273yes17:25
DocScrutinizerthen make each app use whatever user decides, as NIC17:25
k273psycho_oreos and Hurrian : yes, and DocScrutinizer and chem|st had taught me a lot17:25
psycho_oreosautodisconnect program concept isn't bad but its flawed otherwise :/17:26
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psycho_oreosat least it gives one some sense of control in extending the battery life (if tweaked right)17:27
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k273mhmm...17:28
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DocScrutinizerautodisconnect is nonsense17:31
k273http://www.antimoon.com/blog/2012/05/ldoce-viewer/?ml17:32
k273I found that dictionaries in linux are still limited functionally, and/or too clunky...17:36
DocScrutinizerhmm17:37
DocScrutinizer?17:37
k273yes, DocScrutinizer?17:38
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javispedromoo17:41
k273arf!17:41
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javispedrohm, do not leave n810 under weight, speakers are plugged in via spring contacts and wear out18:07
javispedro(fortunately easy repaired)18:08
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k273gottago, DocScrutinizer , psycho_oreos, Hurrian . thanks for the chat. have a good day/night!18:14
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DarkchaosDo some of you experience problems with the usb port of your mobile as well?18:36
Hurrianit's a common problem on the N90018:40
Hurrianfix: resolder USB port18:40
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Darkchaoscan it be done by a simple electrician?19:05
Darkchaosbut as it looks atm i cannot open it simply, right?19:06
DarkchaosIs it just unsoldering and soldering again?19:06
DarkchaosHurrian19:11
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jonwilSeems like setting Skype availability to "offline" causes skyhost to terminate19:18
jonwilso it looks like I can save battery doing that19:18
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chem|stjonwil: skype is known to cause alot of wakeups20:20
SpeedEvilIn addition, monster battery use due to data transfer20:23
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jonwilis it normal for multiple copies of skyhost to be running when I am connected to skype?20:32
jonwilI am assuming it is20:32
ShadowJKya20:32
ShadowJKsome 10 threads or so20:32
jonwilok20:33
jonwilok, lets find out where telepathy-spirit is registered/set up/etc20:35
jonwili.e. what causes it to start20:35
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jonwilok, I cant see anything in there that would allow Skype to wake up from whatever state its in when I set it to "offline", there is no Skype daemon or anything else running and nothing talking to any Skype servers so it should only start up when I actually set availability and make it come online again20:45
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jonwilall the information I have seen though indicates that the Skype protocol is a piece of junk (worse still, proprietary junk)20:47
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DocScrutinizerDarkchaos:21:46
DocScrutinizer~usbfix21:46
infobotfrom memory, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)21:46
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cehtehhey .. i want to seal my device for underwater: P22:00
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SpeedEvilMe too22:04
SpeedEvilWanna split http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-encapsulant-solar-cells-1-1-kg-QSIL-216-/270717796704?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item3f0809c160 ?22:05
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DocScrutinizercehteh: SpeedEvil simple enough - place a scotch patch on USB and AV plug appertures, fill the whole kbd half with 2k-epoxy22:29
DocScrutinizerfor the screen it's a tiny bit less simple but basicaly same procedure22:30
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SpeedEvilEpoxy is generally a bad idea22:40
SpeedEvilshrinkage makes electronics unhappy22:40
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i had a simpler solution: ziplock bag22:45
cehtehdoesnt look pretty but works22:46
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Sicelohmm, bq27200 shows max 150mA charging from wall charger23:39
Sicelo:\23:39
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SpeedEvilwith the device idle?23:46
SpeedEvilAlso - what's the charge state?23:46
SpeedEvilWith device non-idle - that's not ridiculous.23:47
ShadowJKor battery near full23:47
SpeedEvilAs with battery ...23:47
Siceloidle23:47
SpeedEvilbattery voltage ?23:48
Sicelowhen i disconnect charger, i get a nice 4mA standby current .. so i know i don't have bad stuff running23:48
SpeedEvilthe nokia charger?23:48
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Sicelowell, now it's full.. but voltage was about 80% when i first noticed23:49
ShadowJKso if it was almost full the chargerate is explained23:50
SpeedEvil80% charge may be where it's starting to taper off23:50
Siceloyeah, nokia charger.. original.. same one that came with the N900 a year ago23:50
Sicelohmm, ok :/23:50
ShadowJKmy old battery started tapering at 50 :)23:50
SpeedEvilIndeed.23:50
SpeedEvilOld cells are bad that way23:51
Siceloow.. i have not treated my N900 battery too well :P23:53
DocScrutinizerSicelo: see CC/CV chaging, wikipedia23:53
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Sicelothanks. i'm there now23:55
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ShadowJKhttp://enivax.net/jk/n900/N900-BL5J-bq24150-std-4200-950-100.png red is voltage, green is current, seconds on x axis23:56
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