IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-04-30

freemangordonDocScrutinizer, Pali,
freemangordonnot complete of course00:01
DocScrutinizer51sorry, on n90000:02
freemangordonbut as a start should be enough00:02
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freemangordonPali, is there anything to to to force bq module to report non-zero charge (besides calibration cycle)?00:05
Palipatch it00:05
freemangordons/to to to/to do to/00:05
infobotfreemangordon meant: Pali, is there anything to do to force bq module to report non-zero charge (besides calibration cycle)?00:05
freemangordonyeah, nice00:05
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freemangordonBut it seems this is a readout from the chip, ain't?00:06
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merlin1991hm silly question, how do I write a regex to check for a-z except for a few?00:08
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: nope00:08
merlin1991is there a syntax for this caracter class minus xyz?00:08
DocScrutinizer51it's an atrificial intentional bug introduced by oversmart bq27200.ko00:09
DocScrutinizer51chip doesn't do that nonsense00:09
DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: either [^xyz]00:11
merlin1991well that allows anything but xyz00:11
merlin1991but I'd like todo a-z but not b e and o00:11
DocScrutinizer51or [A-Wa-w]00:11
merlin1991ofc I can type it out :D00:11
DocScrutinizer51yes, you'll have to00:12
DocScrutinizer51there's no set subtractor afaik00:12
DocScrutinizer51i dunno of any nicer term00:15
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DocScrutinizer51maybe inverted logic: [^_-Zbeo*-]00:19
DocScrutinizer51I'm not sure sth like [^-k] would actually catch and forbid all from very beginning up to k00:21
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DocScrutinizer51I rather guess that forbids just - and k00:22
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DocScrutinizer51also I don't think there's any & analog to | in regex00:24
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DocScrutinizer51kde had a nice regex wizard, I think in konqueror multi-rename or sth00:27
DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: ^00:27
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Palifreemangordon, DocScrutinizer, here bq2415x patch for kp50:
Paliwallcharger detection does not working correctly yet00:59
Palineed to call: cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger01:00
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DocScrutinizerthe detection function in musb and hw is triggered only when you cat that sysnode01:06
DocScrutinizeranyway, nice work, worth even another lollipop :-D01:06
DocScrutinizer(cat sysnode) a thing usually done by ke-recv aiui01:07
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DocScrutinizeror by bme itself, or knows-the-flying-spaghettimonszer-whom01:08
PaliDocScrutinizer, it will work, but I need to wait 1-2s01:08
Paliso some delay is needed01:09
DocScrutinizeryeah, the delay to allow ke-recv do its job01:09
Paligoing offline now, bye all01:10
DocScrutinizeror hal, or (see above)01:10
DocScrutinizerbye Pali01:10
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vdvwhat does category mean for a notification in maemo?
DocScrutinizerprolly the icon used01:11
vdvif i set "email-message" category for new notification i get behaviour of modest automatically01:11
vdvbehavior = led pattern, sound, notification counter01:12
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DocScrutinizerdang, don't ask me01:12
DocScrutinizermaybe some sorta meta-macro01:12
vdvit's very interesting where is that defined01:12
DocScrutinizerGod knows01:13
vdvand whether i'm allowed to use it01:13
DocScrutinizer"when I wrote that code, only God and me knew what I was doing - now only God knows"01:13
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vdvi've killed modest, thought, that category behaviour is defined by modest at runtime01:14
vdvit's all like a magic01:16
vdvmeaning of "category" is not documented01:17
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DocScrutinizer51vdv: that's defined somewhere in the abyss of hildon-notification-daemon or sth01:22
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vdvit's interesting, whether it's standard, or added by modest01:24
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vdvand if uninstalling modest will remove that category too01:25
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topobotAre there any companies developing smartphones with maemo?02:19
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GeneralAntillestopobot, no. Maemo's not being developed commercially any longer.02:21
topobotwhich is the last smartphone with maemo?02:21
SpeedEvilThe n90002:24
SpeedEvilWell - arguably the n902:25
topobotis it good the n900?02:25
topobotor is it better iphone?02:25
SpeedEvilBut it's two years old.02:25
SpeedEvilClosing on three.02:25
topobotis there any benefit in comparation with iphone or galaxy?02:25
SpeedEvilAt the moment - for 99.9% of users, no.02:26
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SpeedEvilBecause nokia has switched for the mmomet entirely away from linux, and is trying to push their windows handsets.02:28
topobotand what anout that os based on maemo and intel?02:29
SpeedEvilIt fell apart.02:30
topobotoh yes meego02:30
topobotgone? why?02:30
topobotif im developer and i want to develop a tool for smarphone, which is the best os should i use?02:31
SpeedEvilNokia became uninterested in the project.02:31
topoboti want to sell my app02:32
SpeedEvilIf you do not have a spare ten or twenty million to invest in attempting to get a new plaform on the market, android, ios, or blackberry.02:32
SpeedEvilYou may also consider windows phone, of course.02:32
topobotandroid or ios?02:33
SpeedEvilone of them.02:37
SpeedEvilThe problem with either appstore is you are competing against tens of thousands of apps.02:38
SpeedEvilWindows may be somewhat better in that respect.02:38
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topobotmaemo is linux>02:40
topobotno android02:40
topobotis android linux?02:40
nox-their kernel is linux02:41
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SpeedEvilAndroid is based on a linux kernel.02:44
SpeedEvilYou might consider developing for N9.02:44
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SpeedEvilWhich isn't - quite - a dead platform, though nokia are trying hard to kill it.02:44
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topobotwhy nokia wants to kill n900?02:47
nox-elop wants to push win phone... :/02:48
nox-he killed n950 too02:48
nox-new nokia ceo02:49
topobotno business with linux based stuff?02:49
SpeedEvilThere are no new linux based phones, other than android, which is sort-of-arguable.02:56
topobotand which are the differences between maemo and android?03:03
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SpeedEvilMameo is - compared to android - a 'normal' desktop linux03:15
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topobotso maemo is better than android?03:31
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: not really, it just has X1104:24
SpeedEvilAnd libc, and runs binary apps, ...04:24
luke-jrtopobot: Maemo is better, because it's designed for normal computing, not just a super-phone04:25
SpeedEvilthere isn't for example - a JVM in the way of all apps04:25
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topobotwhat does it means "designed for normal computing"?04:25
robbiethe1stI want to see a Kubuntu Mobile phone.04:25
robbiethe1sttopobot: you can do anything you can do with a normal Linux install with Maemo04:26
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topobotyou mean, you can run linux software on maemo?04:27
robbiethe1stWhich includes custom kernel modules, USB host(including odd stuff like USB soundcards and serial adaptors), etc.04:27
robbiethe1stYes, though unless there's a version *built* for maemo, you have to run a chroot(like easy debian) to give the program the supporting files it needs.04:27
topobotmaemo is more hackeable than android?04:27
robbiethe1stFar more.04:28
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robbiethe1stN900 is unlocked, both bootloader wise and carrier wise04:28
topobotbut n900 is slow ?04:28
Hurriannot really.04:28
robbiethe1stSomewhat, yeah. Stock 600mhz, single core.04:28
Hurrianjs-heavy webpages suck on microb, work fine in firefox with easy-debian04:29
topobotwhat can you do with maemo that you cannot do with android?04:29
Hurrianchrooting doesn't suck04:29
robbiethe1stUh... run Open Office?04:29
robbiethe1stRun X-based apps natively04:29
Hurrianrobbiethe1st, you can also chroot under android, it's just that performance sucks.04:29
robbiethe1stBecause of no X server, just VNC04:30
Hurrianto put it into perspective, launching OOo is as fast as desktop on N90004:30
Hurrianit will take ~2 minutes on my Tegra 2 tablet04:30
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topoboti was wondering if its possible to connect a secondary camera with a n900?04:31
jogadoes android do usb host?04:31
robbiethe1sttopo, yeah, I bet it is possible to use a USB webcam with it.04:31
SpeedEviljoga: In some circumstances, yes.04:31
SpeedEviljoga: It can suport various devices. For example, mass storage is common04:32
robbiethe1stYou might have to use EasyDebian to find software that'll /use/ the usb camera, though.04:32
robbiethe1stPersonally, I've used USB mode to run a flash drive, USB soundcard(giving me SPDIF out), and USB->Serial adaptor for interfacing with a CNC machine)04:33
jogaI used a pololu servo controller with n900 (+ usb adapter)04:33
jogaalso you can use an arduino04:34
jogaor anything that you can talk serial to via usb04:34
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jogaalso plugging keyb+mouse is a nice feat :) maybe with tv-out you could do word processing in easy-debian oowriter hehe04:35
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Hurrianjoga, iirc the usb serial driver is in the maemo kernel04:44
Hurrianso yeah, it should work04:44
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LaoLang_coolAny tool to allow me navigate quickly to top/bottom?05:30
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robbiethe1stUh, LaoLang_cool ?05:32
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LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st: sorry for my poor English, say I'm viewing a mms in fmms, and I'm in the middle of the long page, it's hard to go to the top/bottom of that page05:34
robbiethe1sttry shift + up/down?05:34
robbiethe1stperhaps alt+up/down05:34
LaoLang_cooltried it, nothing happened..05:35
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robbiethe1stWell, I don't use it myself, so..05:37
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st: actually, I'm needing a universe way to go to top/bottom of a page on maemo :)05:38
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Palifreemangordon, DocScrutinizer final bq2415x charger patch with usb/wallcharger auto detection without breaking usb host mode is here:
freemangordonPali, you should have some sleep from time to time :P11:01
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Itschuegood morning11:03
PaliI slept :) now about 15 minutes took me to add last missing think - wallcharger detection11:03
Paliso charging in kernel is ready11:03
freemangordonso, what now?11:03
freemangordonI still don't have the whole picture11:04
Palinow is needed to replace userspace closed libraries which use BME :D11:04
freemangordonso, the addon is half functional, what was that .so you were talking about11:05
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Paliit is wrapper for i2cget for bq27200 chip11:05
* RST38h moos11:05
freemangordonno, the another one, let me look into the logs11:06
Palithat library is needed to get i2cget work when bq27200.ko is loaded11:06
freemangordonPali, libbmeipc11:07
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Paliah, yes11:07
Palilibrary which communicate with bmw11:07
freemangordonwho uses that?11:07
Palipackages: pulseaudio-module-nokia-music hald-addon-bme pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice dsme pulseaudio-module-nokia-common testserver pulseaudio-module-nokia-record11:09
freemangordonyeah :)11:09
Palialso see that nokias hald-addon-bme using it11:10
freemangordonhmm, this one is 8k in i386 SB, let me chech on the device11:10
freemangordonthe same, that will be a piece of cake11:10
Paliand osso-systemui-actingdead (systemui addon which shutdown device when battery is empty) needs hald-addon-bme11:11
Palitry to look at some opensource libbmeipc version:
Palimaybe is compatible/same with that in n90011:12
freemangordonlet me fire hexrays11:13
freemangordonPali, things not look good, that library does what it name states, i.e. calls bme through socket.11:16
PaliI know11:16
Paliit is not easy11:16
Palibut better look at pulseaudio modules11:16
Palithey are opened on meego11:16
freemangordonwe need to implement the whole bme functionality11:16
Paliand last package which use bme is dsme - which is open source11:17
freemangordonPali, seems you have the knowledge, why don't you take that part11:17
Palino time :-)11:17
PaliI created kernel driver11:18
Paligoing away11:18
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dre-show do I open and clean my N900 keyboards? thanks11:37
dre-sbeen searching the guide in the internet but found none11:37
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BiggAldre-s I usually clean mine with compressed air, no need to open it up12:08
BiggAlYou can get it fairly cheap on amazon/ebay12:08
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DocScrutinizercondolences Nokia: Samsung > Nokia yesterday. Todsay selling VERTU14:18
DocScrutinizerFlop did a comprehensive job, indeed14:19
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, i don't suppose vertu was making great profits14:21
zeqHe's trying to out do impressive job done to HP14:22
jaskamaking glitzed up s40 phones14:22
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zeqjacekowski: it made huge profits14:22
jaskaprofit per unit is probably ridiculous14:22
jacekowskii'm not so sure14:23
zeqjust not significant revenue14:23
jacekowskimaterials costed a lot14:23
jacekowskiand it's not like they sold millions of those phones anyways14:23
zeqit wasn't a volume unit14:23
jacekowskii can't really imagine who would buy those14:23
jacekowskithose were not really any kind of business phones14:24
zeqno, they were for the elite classes14:24
zeqyes, sorry "elite" :)14:25
jacekowskibut it's not like you go to some kind of party and show off your phone14:25
jacekowskiwhen you buy something like that it's for people to see14:25
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zeqit's to see they don't have the same as the riff-raff14:26
jaskaalbeit a s40 phone would be preferable to a symbian one :)14:26
zeq"special" people, "special" phones14:26
jacekowskijaska: i don't suppose you can flog stolen phone like that14:27
zeqyou'd break it down14:27
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jacekowskii don't see how would you sell key shaped saphire somewhere14:28
zeqlike famous jewelry14:28
jacekowskipossibly gold and platinium14:28
jacekowskiyou can melt those14:28
jacekowskibut rest of components would be hard to "recycle"14:28
zeqthe point is though, Nokia could name the price.14:29
zeqProbably the more the price, the more demand up to a point.14:29
zeqVery exclusive market, without growth potential14:30
zeqbut easy money14:30
zeqprobably the very definition of niche14:30
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: hehe14:31
* DocScrutinizer would adore saphire buttons14:31
jaskasapphire qwerty14:31
DocScrutinizermaybe a screen protector of monolitic diamant14:32
zeqwho wouldn't want a device made from ideal components? price no object?14:32
DocScrutinizerof course synthetic14:32
jaskaprice no object is not realizing how much the ideal materials would cost :)14:32
DocScrutinizerjaska: keycap printing done by ion diffusion14:33
DocScrutinizerTHIS wouldn't come off, like that crap:
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DocScrutinizeryeah, I'm definitely in love with sapphire qwerty14:35
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: screen is sapphire as well14:37
jacekowskiwhat a cheap knock-off then14:37
DocScrutinizer50 atom layers pure carbon, crystaline14:37
DocScrutinizeraka diamant14:38
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jacekowskithere is a lot of differen crystal arrangements of carbon14:38
DocScrutinizerproduced under vacuum by evaporizing carbon14:39
DocScrutinizerTHE surface finsih14:39
DocScrutinizerbasically one huge very thin diamant14:40
r00t|homeDocScrutinizer: diamond14:40
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕14:40
DocScrutinizerr00t|home: thanks14:41
r00t|homedamn those germans and their bad english...14:44
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DocScrutinizerwat meks iu sink eim german, nod sous afrikan?14:45
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DocScrutinizeractually I'm not German, I'm a franconian - we invented english pronounciation before the British even learned to speak ;-P14:49
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: ah, a bavarian... *SCNR* *duck* *run*14:51
ZuccaHi. I'm having some serious problems with Maemo 5 CSSU testing. Apmd does not start and my N900 loses 2G/3G data connection constantly. I already changed my SIM card, but I had no effect. As my last hope I have decided to switch to Maemo 5 SCCU stable. Is it easy? Can it (downgrading) be done?14:52
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DocScrutinizerZucca: definitely completely unrelated to CSSU15:02
DocScrutinizeranyway, downgrading to CSSU-S can't be done15:02
DocScrutinizerfirst take15:02
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders what's Apmd15:03
ZuccaI don't know of this data connection dropping... But I just had apmd upgrade.15:03
ZuccaAdvanced power manager daemon.15:04
DocScrutinizersorry, never heard of that15:04
DocScrutinizermaybe it's that hoax published by this fool who claims he invented unix15:04
jacekowskilike acpi15:04
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jacekowskibut older15:04
ZuccaI guess I need to buy N9. :P15:05
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I know APM, but I definitely think it's not part of maemo15:05
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ps aux|grep apm15:05
DocScrutinizer 3268 root      4108 S    grep apm15:05
jacekowskimaybe it is15:06
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# locate apm  -> nothing that fits, except manpage15:07
ZuccaI guess I could return backups from before swithing to testing...15:07
DocScrutinizerZucca: toldya it's totally completely unrelated to CSSU15:07
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ZuccaDocScrutinizer: Related or not. I didn't had the problem then. And then I could switch to CSSU stable.15:08
DocScrutinizerCSSU neither messes with anything SIM related, nor with anything faintly resembling APM15:08
DocScrutinizerwhatever you like15:09
DocScrutinizeryou know the story of the boy who kicked the electric power pole and whole NY went blackout?15:09
DocScrutinizerI just hope that, when you find out your data connection still drops frequently after you rolled back to stock maemo, you won't start bitching CSSU fried your modem15:12
DocScrutinizerand again, there is no such thing like apmd in any of my maemo systems15:13
ZuccaHm... Seems like those power manager stuff were depencies from some other package. Time to clean the mess.15:13
ZuccaDocScrutinizer: That I know. At least now.15:13
ZuccaDocScrutinizer: I'm not gonna blame anyone.15:14
DocScrutinizermy idea is you installed some suspicious (to use an euphemism) power optimizer app that now causes your data connection to constantly disconnect15:14
ZuccaI shouldn't have any of those. But I'll try to uninstall soem packages and try again.15:15
DocScrutinizerand yes, those crappy power-manager apps might easily conflict with some bugfixes in CSSU15:15
DocScrutinizeror have other dependencies to stock maemo15:15
ZuccaIf I don't happen to stumble up on any depency problems. I've never been very "in sync" with dpkg. :P15:16
DocScrutinizerI know of at least one such power/comnnection-manager package that doesn't cleanly uninstall15:16
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DocScrutinizerI think it's been like two weeks into the past I last time explained some user in this channel. He fixed it by complete reflash, and after that NOT reinstalling auto-disconnect app15:17
ZuccaI need to remove all "suspicious" repos too.15:17
ZuccaI once tested that app.15:18
DocScrutinizerit doesn't uninstall15:18
ZuccaBut not when usinf CSSU.15:18
ZuccaAnd it plainly sucked then already.15:18
DocScrutinizerauto-disconnect is messing up all your rtcom-connections/accounts AIUI15:19
DocScrutinizerand not restoring them on uninstall15:19
ZuccaI chacked. I don't have it. At least package manager didn't find it. :P15:20
DocScrutinizerdoesn't mean a thing15:20
DocScrutinizeryou said you once tested it15:20
DocScrutinizerthe mess lingers on15:20
DocScrutinizerafter uninstall15:20
ZuccaI remember not using is on CSSU, so I might be safe?15:21
ZuccaOh. :|15:21
DocScrutinizerwhat makes you think CSSU would magically fix the mess auto-disconnect created?15:21
ZuccaI thought I would uninstall fine IF NOT using CSSu.15:21
DocScrutinizermind you, CSSU is *not* a full reflash15:22
ZuccaI know.15:22
DocScrutinizerno, auto-disconnect never really uninstalls - unrelated to CSSU15:22
ZuccaBut the problem with auto-disconnect was with Nokia SSU too?15:22
ZuccaThat makes it worse.15:23
DocScrutinizerplease don't quote me on any of the above, it's all second-hand. I never tested that crap myself15:24
ZuccaI was really long time ago when I tested it...15:24
ZuccaI won't.15:24
DocScrutinizerI just talked users out of trouble caused by auto-disconnect15:25
DocScrutinizerI never was able to remote-diagnose the root cause of the problems15:25
ZuccaLet's see how my N900 performs now. I removed all the APMD stuff.15:26
DocScrutinizerbut the pattern always been the same: install then uninstall auto-disconnect -> run into trouble with data connections never getting stable again15:26
DocScrutinizerdo full reflash, enjoy absence of previous annoying problems15:27
DocScrutinizerso all this boils down to "auto-disconnect doesn't cleanly uninstall and is messing up ICD2 and friends", in my book15:28
ZuccaDocScrutinizer: In my case I had no problems after uninstall until about two weeks ago (not blaming CSSU, not denying that auto-disconnect is quilty).15:28
DocScrutinizerwell, yes. The last butterfly landing that's finally triggering the problems is mostly unclear15:28
DocScrutinizerroot cause however is mess created by auto-disconnect15:29
ZuccaWhat is that ICD2?15:29
DocScrutinizerthe real problem showing any time later15:29
DocScrutinizerInternet Connection Daemon iirc15:29
DocScrutinizerthe master of all data connections on your system15:30
DocScrutinizersimilar maybe to knetworkmanager15:30
ZuccaI really need to remove all other repos but officals...15:30
DocScrutinizeryou for sure shouldn't keep extras-devel enabled15:31
DocScrutinizeranyway you're in for a full reflash - this will reset your repo/catalog list no matter what15:33
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DocScrutinizer(in for reflash) unless of course *you* are the one to finally spot the nasty bit auto-disconnect leaves on your system after uninstall, and find a way to fix it15:34
DocScrutinizerlast user gave up after one day of investigating, and reflashed15:35
ZuccaDocScrutinizer: In my case it loses connection to SIM card completely.15:35
DocScrutinizerthat's not a good sign15:35
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DocScrutinizerif it says "No SIM" that'S usually a hw-problem15:35
ZuccaAfter 10secs or so it "gets back" the SIM card.15:35
DocScrutinizerI more than ever recommend a clean full reflash, to rule out any sw issues15:36
ZuccaDocScrutinizer: That's what I thought. That's why I got new SIM. Stragely it happens randomly when browsing the net, but almost immediately when opening ssh connection.15:36
ZuccaSomething fishy...15:37
DocScrutinizerdo NOT install / reinstall any additional app beyond stock - then test15:37
DocScrutinizerthen install ssh *only* - RETEST15:38
ZuccaI really don't have time atm. I'll try tomorrow.15:38
DocScrutinizernp, please report15:38
ZuccaCan I reflash with Linux?15:38
DocScrutinizeronly with linux ;-)15:38
ZuccaI thought you need some special program to reflash. :P15:38
DocScrutinizeryes, flasher-3.515:39
ZuccaOk. So dd alone isn't enough.15:39
DocScrutinizeravailable on Nokia download site15:39
ZuccaThank god.15:39
DocScrutinizeryou may also use 0xFFFF15:39
DocScrutinizeran open source alternative flasher15:39
DocScrutinizerbut I wouldn't recommend that for a beginner15:40
ZuccaSoemtimes those programs are Win only. And I would _not_ like to start playing with wine.15:40
ZuccaI try the easy way.15:40
infobotwell, maemo-flashing is
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ZuccaI need to transfer all the photos... I guess there's nothing more I need to to backup...15:41
ZuccaWhy it is always that when I'm using apt/dpkg based distro, I always get it into total mess in the end?15:50
ZuccaI used Gentoo like five years reinstalling it only once, until I switched to Arch. I thing I would be Ubuntu user if only I wasn't totally incompatible with dpkg. :P15:52
ZuccaNow every PC here runs Arch.15:53
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ZuccaOh well. DocScrutinizer I'll try to get the flashing done tomorrow. I'll report the results here. I already checked output of dmesg and it showed something related to connection being idle.15:54
ZuccaSo it must be that fatal move to test auto-disconnect back then.15:55
DocScrutinizerat least you now know what's been the problem :-D15:55
DocScrutinizerand you also know how to fix and how to avoid it in future15:55
ZuccaI sure hope that this isn't hw problem. :)15:56
DocScrutinizerI also hope that15:56
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ZuccaIt it is... Then I might buy N9.15:56
DocScrutinizerwe've seen a scary increase in frequency of reports related to hw failures in modem lately15:56
ZuccaOk. :\15:57
DocScrutinizerlast victim been macer afaik15:57
DocScrutinizerMacer: how's your SIM issue?15:57
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ZuccaI't so sad that there's not much qwerty phones anymore. I can understand it when using tablet sized device. But it takes much patience to use OSD keyboard on phone sized device.15:59
DocScrutinizeryes, indeed16:00
ZuccaEspecially when the keyboard uses halt of the screen.16:00
DocScrutinizercommon sense in here is that there's no valid successor of N90016:00
ZuccaOk. But I need to go now. \o16:01
DocScrutinizerI'm busy buying the last *new* N900 worldwide ;-D16:01
DocScrutinizerZucca: seeya16:01
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zeqDocScrutinizer: when will you have enough??? okay I've already on my third N900... :/16:18
DocScrutinizersame here :-D16:18
DocScrutinizerwell, not really - I'm still using #1 and #2, third one is spare16:19
zeqgot the first RMA'd16:19
zeqwould let me have another after that, fobbed me off with an E7 which the girlfriend got stolen!16:20
zeqI had MicroUSB failure16:20
DocScrutinizeryeah, no more repair. That's why I'm searching for *new* spare devices now16:20
zeqalthough the second one was iffy to start with :(16:21
DocScrutinizerzeq: usb failure is a) known problem, b) on a certain percentage due to "mistreatment" by user, c) there's a preventive fix:16:21
infobotusbfix is probably - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)16:22
zeqThird one is holding up so far... I'm being *extra careful*16:22
zeqIf I'd known they wouldn't give me another I would have kept the broken one16:22
zeqit was otherwise in perfect condition16:23
DocScrutinizerindeed, never forget to write in BOLD: "I'LL NOT ACCEPT REPLACEMENTS BY ANY OTHER MODEL" on your RMA16:24
DocScrutinizerafter all it's *your* hardware, Nokia mustn't "steal" it16:24
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DocScrutinizerI'm actually surprised they haven't gotten sued all down the main road outa the town for doing this16:25
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DocScrutinizerit's been "The Fall of Man err Nokia"16:27
zeqthey did. couldn't let me have it back apparently16:27
zeqthey did steal it I mean16:28
DocScrutinizerafter they started this scam, things gone downhill monotonically16:28
zeqit's a sad, sad thing16:28
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* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if this "get a C? in replacement of your N900" actually started before or after Flop16:29
DocScrutinizerit *smells* like Evilop anyway16:30
DocScrutinizerperfectly inline with his other moves to ruin Nokia FOSS16:31
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DocScrutinizerzeq: You could still take it to court I guess16:36
zeqI'm not really that litigateous (sp?)16:38
DocScrutinizerif Nokia is 'losing' your device and can't deliver a perfect replacement (I.E. a definitely unused never overclocked N900 or 100% compatible and equivalent successor), you're entitled to full refund of cost for getting such replacement elsewhere, incl your working time for finding such replacement16:40
DocScrutinizercurrewntly there are such new replacements occasionally on ebay, for 590EUR16:41
DocScrutinizerNokia just dares to do this scam on us because nobody actually wants to take the hassle to sue them and ask for full refund16:42
zeqIt wouldn't have been an issue had they released the N950 or equiv. as originally planned16:43
zeqDamn Flop16:44
DocScrutinizersee "100% compatible equivalent successor" note above16:44
zeqwasn't arguing16:44
zeqwas a Zaurus user before the N900, disappointment there too...16:45
zeqthe SL-C3100 was almost a terrific device16:46
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zeqhampered by lack of VRAM.  The PXA270 was used without its companion GPU chip, which is okay in devices with QVGA, since it had 256Mb of SRAM which could be used as high speed framebuffer.16:48
zeqWith full VGA @16bpp that's a problem16:48
zeqSharp had the opportunity for a killer Linux device in the next iteration16:49
zeqnever happened, change of stragegy to WinCE16:50
zeq(or whatever mobile Windows was at the time)16:50
zeqI'm hopeful about Mer though...16:51
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zeqLooking like we might be having some nice new devices appearing16:52
SpeedEvilI do wonder how locked the intel medfield devices will be.16:52
zeqhopefully something Nokia Internet Tablet/Zaurus like16:52
SpeedEvilThough I find it annoying that there seem to be no public datasheets for the CPUs in question16:53
SpeedEvil- first phones are out now16:53
rm_workman, I miss my Collie16:53
rm_workI still have it somewhere... the battery is toast though, i think16:53
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MacerDocScrutinizer: don't know.. haven't put a sim in it in a few days17:08
Maceri don't have the tmob sim anymore and pulling the att sim out of the l900 is a pain17:08
Maceri've been using the n900 as a nit17:08
Macerno sim17:08
DocScrutinizeryou checked the dmesg/syslog for cmt reset events?17:09
Macerand there were17:09
Maceri forgot the exact error17:09
Macerbut it was a steady reset17:09
DocScrutinizerfinal evidence for cmt/hw error17:09
Macerand shoving paper into it wasn't helping anymore :-/17:10
MacerDocScrutinizer: ah well.. after 2 n900s i am done ;) not going to get another one17:10
Maceri'll use this one until i find a buyer willing to take it with a malfunctioning sim reader17:10
DocScrutinizerI can feel with you17:10
DocScrutinizersorry to hear that anyway17:10
Macertoo bad because i love maemo17:10
Macerlast of the true linux phones :(17:10
DocScrutinizermaemo5, yes17:11
Macermaybe if nokia gets its bank account back up to par with where it used to be it may try again17:11
Maceror maybe some other company but i doubt it17:11
DocScrutinizerno way17:11
DocScrutinizerthere won't be any movement to the better, until they finally lynched Evilop17:12
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Macerlike i said.. maybe some other company17:12
Maceri do hope some day to get mer/plasma active on my transformer17:12
DocScrutinizerI'd very much like that17:12
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* DocScrutinizer idly wonders what happened to raterphone17:12
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Macerbut looks like it is wp7, android, ios, and rim from here on out17:13
Macerunless for some reason someone decides to go off the reservation17:13
Macerdon't get me wrong. tbh... wp7 is actually well done17:13
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DocScrutinizerlast fuzzy "threats" of raster to "wait and see what's coming" are quite a while back17:13
Macernokia did a good job with making a solid device with the l90017:14
Macerand ms didn't do too bad of a job with teh OS17:14
Macerbut it's just Microsoft IOS ;)17:14
DocScrutinizeroooh l900 aka hooker17:14
Macerwith a hint of android here and there heh17:14
Macerbelieve it or not.. i think they stole the crappy way to rotate from maemo lol17:15
* DocScrutinizer glares at hooker17:15
Macerthe tiles on the start screen stay in portrait ... then some apps rotate others don't :)17:15
Macerit's chaos lol17:15
DocScrutinizerthe only device of the ensemble that's not powered up - guess why17:16
Macerhooker?? :)17:16
Macerwe are talking about the lumia 900 right?17:16
DocScrutinizer~x es en lumia17:16
DocScrutinizer~stupid bot17:17
infobotStupid human.17:17
Macer~x it en lumia17:17
Maceris lumia a made up word?17:17
DocScrutinizerno, it's the spanish word for hooker17:17
Macerno it isn't lol17:18
DocScrutinizerpretty figurative for a Nokia hw running M$ OS17:18
Macerah wel.. i'm going to take a nap. but yeah.. n900 is toast17:18
Maceri haven't used it as a phone in over a week :/17:19
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DocScrutinizer>>Anybody at Nokia speak Spanish? "Lumia" = "hooker" <<
jaskadidnt they have a commercial in germany that said effectively "work will set you free", or is that apocryphal?17:22
r00t|homethat's not from a commercial...17:27
DocScrutinizer"Arbeit macht frei" is quite biased here17:28
r00t|homenazis put it at the entrances of concentration camps...17:28
DocScrutinizer>>Kuga (Ford's SUV) in Slovenian means bubonic plague. And it seems that does not stop people buying them here :) And I, for one, would gladly say "let me check with my hooker if I'm free tomorrow" :)<<  LOL17:28
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jaskahonda also marketed a "fitta" in scandinavia18:02
jaskawhich is pretty close to cunt in swedish18:02
jaskai meant nokia commercial in germany that was close to arbeit macht frei18:03
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cuppsyRandom question: anyone try or use Dvorak with their N900?18:14
jogaheh, mitsubishi has an suv model called 'pajero', which is apparently 'wanker' in spanish18:16
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luke-jrcuppsy: kinda pointless18:58
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spark666hey DocScrutinizer sup?:)19:22
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jaskai think some vw transporter is perspano in spain19:30
jaskawhich would mean assfuck in finnish?19:30
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r00t|home"Several modern advertising campaigns in the German language, including ads for Nokia, REWE grocery stores, Burger King, and Merkur Bank have been marred by controversy after using the phrase Jedem das Seine or Jedem den Seinen." --
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Itschuedoscrutinizer are you here20:10
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andre__Itschue: if you want to ping people you better spell their name correctly20:20
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spark666its there a difference between armel and arm?21:01
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merlin1991spark666: usually arm is short for armel ;)21:04
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spark666merlin1991: tnx,didnt knew n900 use arm :)21:09
zeqspark666: arm can be little endian or big endian, arm just doesn't specify21:10
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spark666so basically if i search for a arm .deb i can use it on n900? :P21:10
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merlin1991.deb files have armel21:12
merlin1991(in the filename)21:12
merlin1991but you've got a big repo on anyway, there's quite a lot of stuff in it21:13
spark666merlin1991: so xxx-armel.deb right? or it works whit xxx-arm.deb to?21:13
merlin1991xxx_armel.deb, and keep in mind that when you get debs compiled for other libs you can still run into problems21:13
spark666yeah i know about the repo but i allways lloking for new stuffs :P21:13
spark666yeah i know that21:14
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer, Pali,
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Paliok, nice to hear21:31
DocScrutinizerstill busy proofreading Pali's stuff21:32
freemangordonthe only one complaining about that lib is hald-addon-bme(stock one) ;)21:32
freemangordonand this one returns hardoced 30 deg for temperature :D21:33
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freemangordonwill implement getting the real value tomorrow21:33
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: temperature of what?21:45
DocScrutinizeryou're planning to use the right sensor for that?21:46
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DocScrutinizer(rhetorical quation)21:46
freemangordonwhy not21:46
freemangordonI plan to use the temp that bq module exports through sysfs21:46
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DocScrutinizerbecause most ignorants think it's temperature as of bq2720021:47
freemangordondidn't understand you21:47
freemangordonAFAIK the temperature which bq27200 reports is battery temperature21:48
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DocScrutinizersee my last post21:51
freemangordonon TMO?21:51
DocScrutinizerbattery temperature sensor is ADCIN0 of GAIA21:52
DocScrutinizertemperature of bq27200 is meaningless21:52
DocScrutinizerit's just the die temperature of a random chip somewhere on mainboard21:53
freemangordonaaah, ok. iirc it is exported through sysfs too, but I can't remember where :(21:53
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freemangordonanyway, I finished for today, will continue tomorrow.21:54
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* freemangordon is far afk21:54
DocScrutinizereven while freemangordon is far afk, just some background for the interested public: bq27200 chip has builtin temp sensor, which is meant to report battery temperature if and only if the chip is integrated into battery (like e.g. on Openmoko GTA02 smart battery) - on N900 however this bq27200 is *not* in battery but rather somewhere on mainboard where the chip's die temperature is completely unrelated to battery temperature21:59
freemangordon"/sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp" ?22:00
DocScrutinizerI guess that's the brokem CPU temperature sensor22:00
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DocScrutinizerIt's under /dev/*twl4030*/* iirc22:00
SpeedEvilIt works for some processors22:01
SpeedEvilNot mine22:01
DocScrutinizerfor mine it works until it freezes22:01
DocScrutinizernot like "freezing water"22:01
DocScrutinizerbut like "it locks and doesn't change anymore"22:01
freemangordoncould it be buggy driver?22:02
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DocScrutinizerIIRC it'S a silicon erratum22:02
SpeedEvilfreemangordon: They removed the temp sensor references on the next datasheet, and said 'doesn't work' in the forums22:02
DocScrutinizerthey = TI22:03
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: /dev/twl4030-adc22:04
DocScrutinizerbeware! there are like 8 ADC channels22:04
DocScrutinizeryou prolly wanna look up the driver source22:05
DocScrutinizerADCIN4 is BSI (battery resistor)22:06
DocScrutinizeryou'll probably need ioctl to read them22:10
freemangordonyeah, I saw that22:10
freemangordonmaybe i should use the same in hald-addon-bme22:11
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bennypr0faneHello, does aynone how I can find out whcih version of U-Boot i have installed?22:26
bennypr0faneI'm not sure it's the latest one22:26
bennypr0faneI have Nokia kernel since I installed it, but I want Power kernel back22:27
DocScrutinizeryou need uboot+powerkernel, they are a "couple"22:30
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DocScrutinizerI.E. it's basically a kernel with implanted uBoot, and you only can flash the complete kernel (incl the uBoot part)22:31
bennypr0fanethat's new to me22:32
bennypr0fanebcause when I installed Uboot, it flashed my kernel22:32
DocScrutinizerisn't that exactly in line with what I said above?22:32
bennypr0faneI thought that I had to do that and then reflash power kernel to get both22:32
bennypr0faneI didn't know there was like a coupled package22:33
DocScrutinizerno, when you flash powerkernel, it will nuke uboot22:33
bennypr0faneit's kinda funny22:33
bennypr0faneso how can I do this22:33
DocScrutinizerit's kinda the only way to implement it22:33
DocScrutinizeryou need uboot for powerkernel, or sth like that22:34
bennypr0fanebecause before you said they're a couple, but they both remove each other :-)22:34
DocScrutinizerwhich correctly should be named "ubot *with* powerkernel"22:34
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bennypr0fanethe instructions in this thread are not leaving me any wiser22:36
bennypr0faneI can't see a package "combined" with power kernel22:37
bennypr0faneit just says you can create it yourself, or you can make dualboot22:37
bennypr0fanebut I think by combined they actually mean 2 kernels22:37
bennypr0faneI don't want 2 kernels, no dualboot22:37
bennypr0fanejust Uboot and power v5022:38
bennypr0faneand here:
bennypr0faneit says "needed packages" from Uboot: U-Boot support (optional):22:40
bennypr0fane First from U-Boot for Nokia RX-51 with BootMenu thread install needed U-Boot packages. Then in Hildon Application Manager install package Linux kernel for power user (boot image for multiboot)22:40
bennypr0fane Or via apt-get package kernel-power-bootimg22:40
bennypr0fanedo I need to get this boot image first, or do I do something to Uboot first?22:41
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DocScrutinizerbennypr0fane: ok, seems I've been wrong, the thread leaves me thinking uBoot loads kernel from NAND root partition form /boot/zImage22:46
bennypr0fanebcause latest Uboot is from 28 April, and I installed it way before that...22:46
Paliif you want kernel power and u-boot, first install u-boot from thread and then install kernel-power-bootimg package22:46
bennypr0fanePali will that work with any version of Uboot?22:47
DocScrutinizerso in fact (if that's correct now) uBoot *replaces* "normal" kernel, and you need a special zImage kernel instead, that's loaded by uBoot then22:47
Palionly with my last22:47
bennypr0fanebecause I'm not sure which version I have now22:47
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bennypr0fanehow do I make sure?22:47
DocScrutinizerPali: where from is uBoot loading the "stock" kernel?22:47
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: HEYA°!22:48
Palimy u-booy image has attached zImage into u-boot binary22:48
Paliand u-boot binary is flashed into NAND22:48
Pali*default stock zImage22:48
Paliother kernels can be booted, if have proper /etc/bootmenu.d/ entry22:48
Paliand kernel-power-bootimg has that needed entry22:49
DocScrutinizerso still uBoot+kernel live in mtd1 ?22:49
DocScrutinizerok, then I was right first22:49
DocScrutinizerat least in that regard22:50
PaliI think it is still good idea to have one working kernel (stock pr1.3) attached to u-boot binary22:50
DocScrutinizeris uboot pkg building this combo on device, or are you shipping prebuilt pkgs?22:50
Paliso if you drop/remove other kernel zimages, stock will always boot22:50
DocScrutinizersure, otherwise no recover after fiasco flashing22:51
PaliI only ship u-boot+stock which is enaought22:51
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Palibut this u-boot has Bootmenu22:51
DocScrutinizerso how would you boot KP?22:51
Paliread thread22:51
DocScrutinizerit's a bit confusing22:51
Paliu-boot can load zImage from eMMC22:52
Palior SD card22:52
GeneralAntillesgdda eyard is re22:52
DocScrutinizer~rot13 gdda eyard is re22:52
infobottqqn rlneq vf er22:52
Paliif you create bootmenu entry and run u-boot-update-bootmenu, u-boot will create nice bootmenu22:52
GeneralAntillesStupid goddamn keyboard is broken22:52
DocScrutinizerhmm, nope, no rot1322:52
GeneralAntillesThis is the 3rd Unicomp board I've had die like that22:52
GeneralAntillesOne series of keys stops responding.22:53
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bennypr0faneGeneral ANtilles i thought u were speaking a foregin language :-)22:53
DocScrutinizerPali: I still fail to understand what are the steps to get uBoot+KP22:53
bennypr0fanePali me too22:53
Palidrop kp zImage to /boot, drop menu item to /etc/bootmenu.d/ and run u-boot-update-bootmenu22:54
Palikernel-power-bootimg will do that22:54
bennypr0faneUboot is not in Appmanager, so I cant' see the verison number there22:54
DocScrutinizerokidoki :-)22:54
bennypr0fanePali: could you translate that to "dumb user"-speak?22:55
Paliu-boot-update-bootmenu is script which create u-boot bootmenu script in MyDocs/ and when starting u-boot it try to load & run that script22:55
Palibennypr0fane, if you want u-boot with kp, just install u-boot from that thread and after that install package kernel-power-bootimg from Extras-Testing22:56
Palino more steps is needed22:56
bennypr0fanebut that means I have to remove my curretn Uboot first, right?22:56
bennypr0fanehow to remove it?22:57
Palifirst flash stock kernel22:57
Palithen check installed u-boot packages and remove them22:57
bennypr0fanestock kernel is in place22:57
bennypr0fanewhat command can I use to see waht I have installed?22:58
Paliflash stock kernel: $ sudo apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher22:58
Palishow installed u-boot packages: $ dpkg -l *u-boot* *uboot* | grep ^ii22:58
Paliremove packages: $ dpkg -P packages22:59
bennypr0fanewhy the need to flash stock kernel first if I already have it installed?23:00
bennypr0faneflashing successful...23:00
bennypr0fanethat's weird23:02
bennypr0faneit says no packages found matching *u-boot*23:03
bennypr0fanePali is there a typo?23:04
Paliand *uboot* too?23:05
bennypr0fanecan I run both commands in 1 row?23:06
bennypr0faneor 1 after the other?23:06
bennypr0fanedpkg -l *uboot* gives a lot of funny output23:07
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bennypr0fanePali: would you mind taking a look?
bennypr0faneI dunno... could it be Uboot was removed by flashing the kernel?23:14
bennypr0faneit seems to be gone now23:15
bennypr0fanethi sis so weird23:15
Palibennypr0fane, that package is not installed23:15
Palineeds ^ii23:15
Pali^ii means installed23:16
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bennypr0faneso uboot is not present right now on my N900?23:19
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bennypr0faneoh, so I DO have to run that as 1 command...?23:19
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ShadowJKinstalling "normal" power kernel or nokia kernel will overwrite uboot23:30
bennypr0faneShadowJK nice23:34
bennypr0fanethat explains how it disappeared23:34
bennypr0fanemeaning I can now safely install the newer uboot?23:34
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bennypr0fanewell, at least it won't eat my brain anymore...23:38
bennypr0faneI can't install u-boot-tools23:39
bennypr0faneit says not compatible23:39
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Palibennypr0fane, what?23:56
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